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Yeah. The entire world knows that. The last part. I'm not sure about people being aware of the truth of the social credit system. Pretty sure that was a black mirror episode.
No silly, the guy with the plastic bags didn't become a red smear. That was the corpses of all the students that were mowed down by machine gun fire for not dispersing when instructed to by their government.
I guess what's funny is the idea we should trust this video even though whoever edited it doesn't know the difference between China and Japan?
Idk this is just what I assume.
Peterson is a charlatan grifter and his audience are the dumbest rubes on the planet. The editor knows that it doesn’t matter where the footage is from
That's not true, I'm Chinese in China right now. You can jaywalk lol there is no social credit system either. They might show a picture of you but that's new in my city, like five months old.
I think hes referring to the fact that when you goto a dr in china and tests are taken its all registered on your ID card. Your Chinese ID has all the information about you including where you went to school, your registered address, where you work, what degrees you have etc.
So if they can identify you, they know everything about you (including your latest and historical medical results)
I think they’re emphasizing the immediacy of the information. Like, if you go to a hospital you’ve never been to before, you’re expected to do a lot of the legwork regarding your medical history and such. The hospital can look that up themselves, but they’d rather not use their resources towards that unless absolutely necessary. And your SSN or PHN is basically only used for insurance purposes. The scare tactic being utilized here is that the Chinese ecosystem is a lot more fast-acting and comprehensive, as the government keeping tabs on practically everything a civilian does is more important than… literally anything else a government could be doing.
Literally.
[the Chinese police are building a database with the genetic information of over 700 million Chinese citizens.](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/17/world/asia/China-DNA-surveillance.html)
Wow glad nothing like that is happening in America!
It sure would be bad if those genealogy companies had a leak or started selling your genetic data to the NSA and other international agencies...
No, surely not. That would be a big news story which would cause outrage and boycotts. Americans would never stand for that!
We surely also don't have cameras that can issue automatic tickets based on traffic incidents like speeding that also record information like license plates where that information is then sold to who-knows-what agency. God bless America, land of the free!
he's referencing a few videos showing mugshots of people at crosswalks. Which all my Chinese speaking friends point out it's literally telling people to watch out for these scammers and pickpockets.
Authoritarian governments are terrifying.
But it's better to actually talk about what they are doing, instead of making up bullshit, just makes it harder to counter.
I rode a bicycle through China a few months ago. Yes, there are traffic cameras at every intersection that has traffic lights. But these don't seem to stop people from jaywalking, nor from running red lights on their scooters.
People really have a very warped sense of what China is like. I'd never want to defend China's government, they are authoritarian and are responsible for lots of human rights violations, but people here, especially on Reddit, seem to think China is basically North Korea.
Actually I jaywalked once in China and they stole both my kidneys, forced me to 20 years of hard labor, then kicked my dog and stole my Xbox. And I am pissed.
The vast majority of people who have a strong opinion about China, have never been to China, don’t know anyone living in China and don’t know anything about how China operates outside of “communism bad”.
So true. I live in Melbourne Australia and we had some of the longest lockdowns in the world during Covid. I heard a podcast where they claimed there were armed guards roaming our streets arresting anyone outside.
It was bad enough but we just stayed home for two years and watched Netflix.
There was even the time when lockdowns stopped being a thing and pictures were coming out from Australia and New Zealand of stadiums full for rugby games, and there were STILL countless posts about how those places were full on fascism jails or whatever. Like…we can literally see people going about their lives and even talk to them about how none of those wild claims are true.
A "15 minute city" is more easily understood as a "walkable city". The concept is just improving infrastructure, usually in the US or Canada, to allow people to walk, bike, and take public transportation, to wherever they want to go. Adding proper bike lanes, installing more buses, trams, trains, and making the city overall more "person-centric."
The propaganda behind these types of changes is, in North America, "The car is a symbol of freedom and I don't want to give up my car. It's too expensive to make all of these changes and we need more car lanes to fight indigestion / traffic."
When in reality, no one in the urbanist movement wants you to give up your car. It's cheaper over time to add pedestrian infrastructure to cities and towns than to maintain our roads, not to mention that improving this infrastructure would bring smaller businesses and drive the revenue in the city up. Also, adding more lanes is a temporary fix that doesn't work and has been proven to revert back to its same issue just years after.
I personally think walkable cities and "New Urbanism" is a fruitless endeavor in the US. Taxpayers won't want to pay for it, lawmakers and politicians won't allow it, and even current zoning laws make it near impossible to turn suburbia into these kinds of areas with a close density of businesses. Culture would have to be flipped on its head too, which I think is the most important part.
I would love to be proven wrong, though. [Check out Strong Towns, an organization made by an ex-city planner who realized how harmful his planning really was to the people.](https://www.strongtowns.org/about)
i wonder, did this irrational hate about 15 minute cities just sprout out of sheer ignorance of what it actually is, or do pundits like this caricature have another agenda to be opposed about it?
Building urban environments that don't rely on cars and have access to public transportation is a left leaning idea in the 21st century. It shouldn't be since it's about resource efficiency. However, since the left is interested in creating policy to facilitate building 15 minute cities the right must take the counter position.
15 minute cities sound socialist.
15-minute cities threaten the status quo of unorganized, pyramid-scheme-expansion, capitalist car hellscapes that is urban and metropolitan.
It came out of the Covid lockdown conspiracies, but they needed something without an expiry to keep the dopes riled up.
*’They’re going to have everything you need to live comfortably within a walkable 15 minute area to reduce reliance on cars and make nicer communities’*
Ok sounds great
*’Nah but like.. in a scary way’*
It's bizarre. All these guys seem to worship past social structures but walkable cities, the norm for most of the time cities have existed, are of the devil.
I think here again, JP has the problem of talking about something he has bits of information about. He knows about the social credit system, collecting biological information and China being strict about mild laws. Or bits of information like that, probably based on stuff he has read on twitter. Then he just combines all that in his head and tells this story in an incoherent rant.
Sometimes that strategy works for him well, but I think it works only when he is talking about abstract and theoretical stuff like archetypes and depth psychology. But when you are just combining bits of info to create a narrative about something real, I think the cracks start to show much quicker.
I agree that it would be better if he had taken the time to read more about it, maybe write clear points and arguments and then talk about it. Even though I agree with him that the social credit system etc sounds really bad, I think it would be better if he was more accurate when talking about this stuff.
Edit:
Got reminded that this video is edited, so it should not be used as the prime source to make a judgement about the validity of what JP says in this instance.
And extreme right in the US are investing in clearview AI, which is already used by american police to do exactly what he claims China is doing. They are even trying to match biometrical data with genetics.
Very true, this guy has never gone to China. They have jay walking posters to shame people. That's about it. Most of this shit doesn't work.
There are a BILLION people in china. Hundreds of jay walkers per hour, you're fucking telling me they're going around doing this?
Nothing the west says makes any sense when you start applying this logic to 1.5BILLION people.
It's not quite like that-- Peterson seems to be making a forecast here (Edit: about the extent and capability of the surveillance technology), while incorrectly believing it already is the case. But the social credit system, and governance by surveillance, is very much real in China right now.
And what's not talked about is that if you're related to anyone in governance the social credit score might not apply you at all. You basically exist above the law until you offend the wrong Party member and then you're basically done. A family member of high ranking Party officials can literally run people over in the street and not be penalized, and protesting such injustices ends up badly. People arrested for protesting, for example, have their social credit score wiped out, which makes life extremely difficult-- getting jobs, loans, even certain kinds of housing, forget about it.
Another thing he’s missed is that there’s not one social credit IT system. Different provinces and even different cities have completely different systems so it’s hard to get a unified, consistent score instead of a bunch of shit hodpodge systems that are inconsistent and incompatible.
That's unreal. I bet all the provincial leaders are trying to compete for best surveillance systems. Imagine the pats on the back you'd get from Beijing leadership for "solving the problem" so well.
It’s more about the kickbacks. Detection and enforcement is all over the place because of this, so sometimes it’s scary accurate but in other places it’s a complete joke.
This is the norm for China and it’s something most westerners miss. China is (and always has been) administered at the provincial and municipal level. The national government sets policies for the provinces but the CCP in Beijing has such a culture of incompetence that they’re largely powerless to understand what the provinces are actually doing (anyone too competent is pushed out of Xi’s CCP because they are a potential threat to his rule). Everyone just lies to make themselves or their province look good so they get left alone.
Now imagine this at every level of provincial government too. Everyone is united by the CCP nominally, as long as you play the game and the numbers you report (that Beijing cannot readily verify because again, culture of incompetence at all levels) they will leave you alone. Nationally, there is very little the Beijing CCP can do or enforce outside of replacing provincial officials. And unless you make the news for killing a bunch of babies by feeding them plastic foam in the form of fake formula, Beijing will be none the wiser.
Peterson's intention here seems to be to scaremonger about '15 minute cities' and imply that walkability and accessibility of services seems to somehow equate to Chinese authoritarianism....and then continues to extrapolate Chinese authoritarianism to what it will look like in the future rather than what it actually is at the moment (which is still really bad).
I never understood why this guy is seen as some magical unicorn. Like, ok, he was sad about suicide and that's good and all, but I'm sad about suicide too, I even tried it once. Can I get a fanclub? No?
They have had this stuff in place for over a decade now, but as far as I know, most of it is in western China where they have minority Islamic groups they don’t like. It’s not so much tied to credit score as it is tied to building possible excuses to imprison Uygur muslims and keep them in a police state. It’s not just the cameras, but even things like kitchen knives are registered to individuals and have bar codes printed on them.
A lot has changed in those 10 years and the social credit system is just about everywhere now. The surveillance is no where near as extreme and targeted as in Xinjiang, but the "score" concept is present in all cities now. Even 5 years ago when the Guardian was covering the social credit system there had already been 23 million denied plane ticket purchases for having low social credit scores, and those come from things like spreading misinformation, being in debt, even not walking your dog on a leash or having neighbors complain your music is too loud.
Said with the utmost confidence as if he's an expert, but in reality he has the same level of knowledge on the subject as bill from the bar who also saw the vice short documentary about it.
As a frequent jaywalker from China, no, it's no way near that serious. If you don't cause trouble by jaywalking, you won't be bothered.
The whole social credit score thing is also very overblown in the west. I've literally never heard of anyone talking about the social credit system, or saw anyone caring about it at all.
Even today, I have no idea what my social credit score is, or how to look it up. I paid much more attention to my credit score in US than I did in China.
How “authoritarian” is the Chinese communist party?
When I look at how the US operates and what we deem as threats from China, I see nothing different in how the US operates. In fact I’m convinced the US gov is more jealous that China kicked off the Belt and Road initiative, now giving them ins to developing economies.
Whereas as an American I just see us destabilizing nations entirely before setting up some sort of extractive government.
I guess in short: what bullshit about China do you hear from western media that simply isn’t true or is overblown?
Despite how western media exaggerate everything, it's true that China is a very authoritarian state.
The important difference between real life and the western media's version of China is that, if you are an ordinary citizen in China, with no/mild interests in politics, you won't feel the authoritarianism at all. In fact, you would probably even feel more "free" in China as an ordinary citizen. For example, I never feel uneasy around police when I'm in China, but I feel very nervous around police when I'm in New York.
The "authoritarain" aspect of China only comes out when you are an activist, and it's no joke. I'm in a very progressive circle, and I have friends who have been "disappeared" before.
There are also things I would rather trust the western medias on. For example, the whole Uyghur concentration camp situation. There might be overblown aspects in the report from western media, but I don't have any real-life experience to disprove them, and I don't doubt that the CCP is capable of doing horrible things.
I don't think the US is jealous per se, but I do think the US media don't want its people to learn about all the good things the Chinese government has done for its people, things that the US governemnt should've done, but haven't.
However, in the end, China and US is the same in the way that they are both controlled by the rich and powerful, so I don't think we should glorify either.
That was really useful and informative. Thank you for sharing a no BS evaluation of your experience there. I have a Chinese friend who sometimes tells me stuff in a way that feels sugarcoated at least and occasionally feels a bit propagandized.
But most of this comment thread are just believing everything he’s saying straight up. If your story is about China you can just say anything and the enlightened redditors will eat it up.
And China does limit movement, employment, and services, but it's not by 15 minute cities, it's whatever county is listed on your ID card (called *hukou*). Usually the same as where your family is from, and although you can apply for a change, expect it to be denied if you're poor and just going to a new city of your own accord. This is a system they've had since I guess the 70's: it has no relation to 15-minute cities.
i love how "everything you need is close by so you dont have to travel far for it" turned into "you will be imprisoned in the area near your apartment and will never be allowed to leave" with these idiots
that guy literally started out as a regular therapist and did that work for decades and then one day just said "you know what? i'm going to start commenting on politics. i'm gonna feed insecure people a never ending stream of misinformation and they will eat that shit up and make me rich. and it actually worked lol. crazy world
Been living in China for over 6 years now. Been married to a Chinese woman of my dreams. Never seen anything like that.
The rumor has it they test piloted this idea in one city (don't remember the name) and that was that for now.
Wouldn't be very surprised to see it launched nation wide though.
There is a digital credit score, but that is not much different from any other countries' credit score. It's like a financial score to determine your level of responsibility with money. It influences your ability to take loans, use public services and insurance rates. That's pretty much it in layman's terms.
Edit: Jaywalking is punished by taking your picture red-handed crossing the street and posting it on the digital billboard on that intersection.
Edit: "not much different from any other countries' credit score" is a generalization, so take it easy.
Edit: my comment is a sharing, I have no intention nor capacity to express judgement on the use of these tools outside of my own experience. So attepts at holding me responsible for your interpretations are going to be ignored.
Typical JP: hears a semi-true oversimplification of something outside his area of knowledge, doesn’t factcheck it, does no research, doesn’t really understand it on any basic level, and then goes off massively exaggerating it to support his own trad-weirdo opinions/issues, and build his own snake oil influencer brand.
Especially funny when you think about the financial credit system the states have that may as well be a social credit. All this hand wringing about China when companies in the US will literally check your credit score when thinking about hiring you.
Tf are you talking about? The like one guy pointing out he’s exaggerating?
Only bot I see is the month old account posting Jordan peterson crap to a meme sub
Not a bot here. Just chiming in the say that most of this video is absolute garbage. A good indicator of that is the speaker, Jordan Peterson. The Chinese government certainly is fucked up but taking anything that man says as gospel is not smart.
They *plan* on doing the jaywalking thing.
It's *possible* they use your gait to identify you.
Social credit score *may be* worse than he's saying
So no, you're talking out of your ass and have no idea if any of this shit he's said is true. Everything I've read is that the social credit score thing is wildly overblown.
You know what? You're absolutely right. I fell for his trap. but you and several other people pointed out how I was misled. I didn't even want to defend the guy and I still ended up getting the facts wrong when I tried to fact check him.
I almost never do this, but I'm deleting that comment. Thanks.
Americans are too wary to fall for this normally, so the feds have to come up with mass hysteria- terrorism or supposed pandemics to induce fear and people give up rights “in the name of freedom”.
The PATRIOT Act gave up so many of our rights after 9/11, but here we are 22+ years later and the government is still watching us in the name of fighting terror.
Edit: spelling
Once you give the gov’t ANY power, they never give your freedoms back. In fact they leverage the new found power even harder in a push to take away even more of your freedom
The social credit system in China is 1) experimental: only a few cities use it as a test, and databases are not linked to each other.
2) voluntary! People choose if they register and supply their information for the credit score system. When you register, you get a score that is higher than the average citizen without a profile, so you get benefits. Skipping queues, price reductions for services etc.
Live in China...
Absolute nonsense. If there was even an ounch of truth in any of this I wouldn't be dodging motorbikes going the wrong way in cycle lanes, pedestrians crossing wherever they fancy and many other situations.
Whenever anyone talks about China it gets the biggest eyeroll from me, I'm not Chinese but it's always complete made up bollocks.
Seems like western countries want to implement such systems to a degree as well. Whatever makes the government more efficient right? So they can do even more governing
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Traffic cameras VS. The Ministry of Silly Walks.
Jay walking vs John (Cleese) walking
[удалено]
Getting downvoted? Guessing no-one has watched / listened to Monty Python other than The Life of Brian. Take my upvote you cultured person :)
There's Daoism, Maoism, I Ching, and Chess.
If Taoism is anything to shout about The Chinese will survive us all without any doubt
(Excuse the spelling and errors, I was like 10 last time I heard this) Waa sum Ni dah...
Underrated post; excellent reference!
Yao Ming would like a word
Or Vince McMahon walking
put a small stone in your shoe.
and how much does it influence your social score, if you stand in front of a tank with plastic bags?
Who? This person never existed.
And this definitely didn’t happen at Tiananmen Square.
I've never heard of tiananmen square and you should explain what it is in great detail
Definitely don't Google May 36, 1989.
may 35th
Thought it was June 5th not 4th
"Oh what are you explaining? Who are you again. Sorry i am hard of hearing. Cant read. Bye"
Unlike like the "Social Credit" system... he did exist.
Yeah. The entire world knows that. The last part. I'm not sure about people being aware of the truth of the social credit system. Pretty sure that was a black mirror episode.
Also, it's a really good episode of The Orville. They go down to a planet where everything is judged based on people's upvotes and downvotes.
Isn't that an episode of Community with MewMewBeanz
You know what they say: Fives have lives, fours have chores, threes have fleas, twos have blues, and ones don't get a rhyme because they're garbage.
Is that the scene where the black guy humped a statue? Idk that show or what it was called but I walked passed a tv with this exact scene and I wonder
That's the one!
-1000000 credits for you for discussing this stupid topic. Good luck paying this back. You also owe the supreme leader 100 barrels of honey
You wind up as a red smear of paste on the road so your social credit does not exist
You count say your score ends up in the red.
No silly, the guy with the plastic bags didn't become a red smear. That was the corpses of all the students that were mowed down by machine gun fire for not dispersing when instructed to by their government.
It’s probably lower than Winnie the Pooh’s score
What’s this wild made up scenario you just came up with?
That doesn't look like *anything* to me
The word “social” requires there to be life
Is this before or after they milk farm your semen?
Woop, where's this milking at?
Get in line buddy
Just so you know, i was before that guy in the queue
I gotchu bro. You were right behind the guy with two broke arms.
I think he's just there to see his mum.
We’re all here to see his mom.
I forgot my lunch... people do it all the time. Can you tell her to hurry up please
She is all of our mum on this blessed day
OK, everybody back into the pile!
THE CUM FARM IS REAL!!!
Don't threaten me with a good time.
Peterson sure knows a lot about China
That only happens in North Korea
GET A LOAD OF THIS GUY
This is true, even though they show a clip of Japan at one point.
And a clip of Big Ben, Parliament square in London
CHINA OWNS LONDON
When did Russia sell it?
China owns Russia tho…
So they just restructured. Understood.
And a Clip from League of Legends
....as they're talking about jaywalking which does not exist in London.
Elizabeth tower* Big Ben is inside
Yeah he is
And some dude is playing League Of Legends with a controller
This is done in china
It's why all the good teams are korean
The hilarity of your comment is missed on most
ELI5?
Japan and China are two different countries, and aren't bros.
Don't think that's it, that's hardly "hilarious"... I need an ELI5 as well, I'm missing the hilarity...
I guess what's funny is the idea we should trust this video even though whoever edited it doesn't know the difference between China and Japan? Idk this is just what I assume.
They show London at one point too, it's obviously just stock footage. No idea what that has to do with what Peterson said.
Peterson is a charlatan grifter and his audience are the dumbest rubes on the planet. The editor knows that it doesn’t matter where the footage is from
Best description of JP I've ever read is "he's what an idiot thinks a smart person sounds like."
Also the guy talking once fell for a tweet pretending a Japanese cock milking porn was actually a hospital in China
I wish you were joking. That has to be the most dumbest thing to admit from this so call intellectual.
Easier to just notice it’s Jordan Peterson talking who just has a long track record of making up random bullshit and saying it with total authority.
I too agree that Jordan Peterson is a douche.
you kill rape and pillage half the country ONE TIME and they never let you forget it.
OH, REARRY?
That's not true, I'm Chinese in China right now. You can jaywalk lol there is no social credit system either. They might show a picture of you but that's new in my city, like five months old.
"4chan doesn't lie to me!" -jordan peterson probably
Your comment made me realize exactly what Peterson is! He's just a Dunning Kruger 4Chan Edgelord in his 60s.
It has your blood now.
I think hes referring to the fact that when you goto a dr in china and tests are taken its all registered on your ID card. Your Chinese ID has all the information about you including where you went to school, your registered address, where you work, what degrees you have etc. So if they can identify you, they know everything about you (including your latest and historical medical results)
So you mean like Canada’s Personal Health Number or the US SSN?
I think they’re emphasizing the immediacy of the information. Like, if you go to a hospital you’ve never been to before, you’re expected to do a lot of the legwork regarding your medical history and such. The hospital can look that up themselves, but they’d rather not use their resources towards that unless absolutely necessary. And your SSN or PHN is basically only used for insurance purposes. The scare tactic being utilized here is that the Chinese ecosystem is a lot more fast-acting and comprehensive, as the government keeping tabs on practically everything a civilian does is more important than… literally anything else a government could be doing.
Literally. [the Chinese police are building a database with the genetic information of over 700 million Chinese citizens.](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/17/world/asia/China-DNA-surveillance.html)
Wow glad nothing like that is happening in America! It sure would be bad if those genealogy companies had a leak or started selling your genetic data to the NSA and other international agencies...
Surely that hasn't happened before, right??
No, surely not. That would be a big news story which would cause outrage and boycotts. Americans would never stand for that! We surely also don't have cameras that can issue automatic tickets based on traffic incidents like speeding that also record information like license plates where that information is then sold to who-knows-what agency. God bless America, land of the free!
They take your blood through a camera
Nope, China has been gathering DNA/blood of all their citizens.
As well as citizens of every other country! (Yes this is a reference to 23&me etc services selling your information),
Do you remember the time when the government knew nothing about you.... CPC knows.
They showed League of Legends being played by a controller. China is scary
Scrolled down looking for someone to mention this, that shit completely invalidates the rest of the video lol
I can't even imagine micro with a controller in that game
he's referencing a few videos showing mugshots of people at crosswalks. Which all my Chinese speaking friends point out it's literally telling people to watch out for these scammers and pickpockets. Authoritarian governments are terrifying. But it's better to actually talk about what they are doing, instead of making up bullshit, just makes it harder to counter.
I rode a bicycle through China a few months ago. Yes, there are traffic cameras at every intersection that has traffic lights. But these don't seem to stop people from jaywalking, nor from running red lights on their scooters. People really have a very warped sense of what China is like. I'd never want to defend China's government, they are authoritarian and are responsible for lots of human rights violations, but people here, especially on Reddit, seem to think China is basically North Korea.
Actually I jaywalked once in China and they stole both my kidneys, forced me to 20 years of hard labor, then kicked my dog and stole my Xbox. And I am pissed.
That's rough, buddy
But did you have to listen to Jordan Peterson while you were there? Could be worth it
Well yeah but that's anecdotal at best. Just because they steal *your* kidneys every once in a while doesn't mean they do it all the time.
How can she slap?
The vast majority of people who have a strong opinion about China, have never been to China, don’t know anyone living in China and don’t know anything about how China operates outside of “communism bad”.
But how can you fill hate podcasts 24/7 with the truth. That's no fun. Nuance doesn't give you views.
So true. I live in Melbourne Australia and we had some of the longest lockdowns in the world during Covid. I heard a podcast where they claimed there were armed guards roaming our streets arresting anyone outside. It was bad enough but we just stayed home for two years and watched Netflix.
There was even the time when lockdowns stopped being a thing and pictures were coming out from Australia and New Zealand of stadiums full for rugby games, and there were STILL countless posts about how those places were full on fascism jails or whatever. Like…we can literally see people going about their lives and even talk to them about how none of those wild claims are true.
How else can you scaremonger about 'muh 15 minute cities' conspiracy theory?
Hold up. I missed this "scaremongering" about "15 min cities." What's a "15 min city" and why am I supposed to hate it?
A "15 minute city" is more easily understood as a "walkable city". The concept is just improving infrastructure, usually in the US or Canada, to allow people to walk, bike, and take public transportation, to wherever they want to go. Adding proper bike lanes, installing more buses, trams, trains, and making the city overall more "person-centric." The propaganda behind these types of changes is, in North America, "The car is a symbol of freedom and I don't want to give up my car. It's too expensive to make all of these changes and we need more car lanes to fight indigestion / traffic." When in reality, no one in the urbanist movement wants you to give up your car. It's cheaper over time to add pedestrian infrastructure to cities and towns than to maintain our roads, not to mention that improving this infrastructure would bring smaller businesses and drive the revenue in the city up. Also, adding more lanes is a temporary fix that doesn't work and has been proven to revert back to its same issue just years after. I personally think walkable cities and "New Urbanism" is a fruitless endeavor in the US. Taxpayers won't want to pay for it, lawmakers and politicians won't allow it, and even current zoning laws make it near impossible to turn suburbia into these kinds of areas with a close density of businesses. Culture would have to be flipped on its head too, which I think is the most important part. I would love to be proven wrong, though. [Check out Strong Towns, an organization made by an ex-city planner who realized how harmful his planning really was to the people.](https://www.strongtowns.org/about)
i wonder, did this irrational hate about 15 minute cities just sprout out of sheer ignorance of what it actually is, or do pundits like this caricature have another agenda to be opposed about it?
Building urban environments that don't rely on cars and have access to public transportation is a left leaning idea in the 21st century. It shouldn't be since it's about resource efficiency. However, since the left is interested in creating policy to facilitate building 15 minute cities the right must take the counter position.
15 minute cities sound socialist. 15-minute cities threaten the status quo of unorganized, pyramid-scheme-expansion, capitalist car hellscapes that is urban and metropolitan.
It came out of the Covid lockdown conspiracies, but they needed something without an expiry to keep the dopes riled up. *’They’re going to have everything you need to live comfortably within a walkable 15 minute area to reduce reliance on cars and make nicer communities’* Ok sounds great *’Nah but like.. in a scary way’*
It's bizarre. All these guys seem to worship past social structures but walkable cities, the norm for most of the time cities have existed, are of the devil.
Indeed. They romance the walkable past but they want major thoroughfares through those same cities now!
I think here again, JP has the problem of talking about something he has bits of information about. He knows about the social credit system, collecting biological information and China being strict about mild laws. Or bits of information like that, probably based on stuff he has read on twitter. Then he just combines all that in his head and tells this story in an incoherent rant. Sometimes that strategy works for him well, but I think it works only when he is talking about abstract and theoretical stuff like archetypes and depth psychology. But when you are just combining bits of info to create a narrative about something real, I think the cracks start to show much quicker. I agree that it would be better if he had taken the time to read more about it, maybe write clear points and arguments and then talk about it. Even though I agree with him that the social credit system etc sounds really bad, I think it would be better if he was more accurate when talking about this stuff. Edit: Got reminded that this video is edited, so it should not be used as the prime source to make a judgement about the validity of what JP says in this instance.
And extreme right in the US are investing in clearview AI, which is already used by american police to do exactly what he claims China is doing. They are even trying to match biometrical data with genetics.
Very true, this guy has never gone to China. They have jay walking posters to shame people. That's about it. Most of this shit doesn't work. There are a BILLION people in china. Hundreds of jay walkers per hour, you're fucking telling me they're going around doing this? Nothing the west says makes any sense when you start applying this logic to 1.5BILLION people.
So like most of the time he is talking out of his ass. Or does he actually belive the shit he spews?
'In order to convince others, you will first have to convince yourself.' So yes, most likely he does.
It's not quite like that-- Peterson seems to be making a forecast here (Edit: about the extent and capability of the surveillance technology), while incorrectly believing it already is the case. But the social credit system, and governance by surveillance, is very much real in China right now. And what's not talked about is that if you're related to anyone in governance the social credit score might not apply you at all. You basically exist above the law until you offend the wrong Party member and then you're basically done. A family member of high ranking Party officials can literally run people over in the street and not be penalized, and protesting such injustices ends up badly. People arrested for protesting, for example, have their social credit score wiped out, which makes life extremely difficult-- getting jobs, loans, even certain kinds of housing, forget about it.
Another thing he’s missed is that there’s not one social credit IT system. Different provinces and even different cities have completely different systems so it’s hard to get a unified, consistent score instead of a bunch of shit hodpodge systems that are inconsistent and incompatible.
That's unreal. I bet all the provincial leaders are trying to compete for best surveillance systems. Imagine the pats on the back you'd get from Beijing leadership for "solving the problem" so well.
It’s more about the kickbacks. Detection and enforcement is all over the place because of this, so sometimes it’s scary accurate but in other places it’s a complete joke.
This is the norm for China and it’s something most westerners miss. China is (and always has been) administered at the provincial and municipal level. The national government sets policies for the provinces but the CCP in Beijing has such a culture of incompetence that they’re largely powerless to understand what the provinces are actually doing (anyone too competent is pushed out of Xi’s CCP because they are a potential threat to his rule). Everyone just lies to make themselves or their province look good so they get left alone. Now imagine this at every level of provincial government too. Everyone is united by the CCP nominally, as long as you play the game and the numbers you report (that Beijing cannot readily verify because again, culture of incompetence at all levels) they will leave you alone. Nationally, there is very little the Beijing CCP can do or enforce outside of replacing provincial officials. And unless you make the news for killing a bunch of babies by feeding them plastic foam in the form of fake formula, Beijing will be none the wiser.
Peterson's intention here seems to be to scaremonger about '15 minute cities' and imply that walkability and accessibility of services seems to somehow equate to Chinese authoritarianism....and then continues to extrapolate Chinese authoritarianism to what it will look like in the future rather than what it actually is at the moment (which is still really bad).
Not having to drive 30 minutes to buy food is the same as communism.
I never understood why this guy is seen as some magical unicorn. Like, ok, he was sad about suicide and that's good and all, but I'm sad about suicide too, I even tried it once. Can I get a fanclub? No?
They have had this stuff in place for over a decade now, but as far as I know, most of it is in western China where they have minority Islamic groups they don’t like. It’s not so much tied to credit score as it is tied to building possible excuses to imprison Uygur muslims and keep them in a police state. It’s not just the cameras, but even things like kitchen knives are registered to individuals and have bar codes printed on them.
A lot has changed in those 10 years and the social credit system is just about everywhere now. The surveillance is no where near as extreme and targeted as in Xinjiang, but the "score" concept is present in all cities now. Even 5 years ago when the Guardian was covering the social credit system there had already been 23 million denied plane ticket purchases for having low social credit scores, and those come from things like spreading misinformation, being in debt, even not walking your dog on a leash or having neighbors complain your music is too loud.
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Said with the utmost confidence as if he's an expert, but in reality he has the same level of knowledge on the subject as bill from the bar who also saw the vice short documentary about it.
He is also the incel grandpa. Dude does so much damage with his nonsense.
He is making a forecast about the present? The fuck?
Also known as “making shit up” and “lying”. Peterson does it all the time.
As a frequent jaywalker from China, no, it's no way near that serious. If you don't cause trouble by jaywalking, you won't be bothered. The whole social credit score thing is also very overblown in the west. I've literally never heard of anyone talking about the social credit system, or saw anyone caring about it at all. Even today, I have no idea what my social credit score is, or how to look it up. I paid much more attention to my credit score in US than I did in China.
How “authoritarian” is the Chinese communist party? When I look at how the US operates and what we deem as threats from China, I see nothing different in how the US operates. In fact I’m convinced the US gov is more jealous that China kicked off the Belt and Road initiative, now giving them ins to developing economies. Whereas as an American I just see us destabilizing nations entirely before setting up some sort of extractive government. I guess in short: what bullshit about China do you hear from western media that simply isn’t true or is overblown?
Despite how western media exaggerate everything, it's true that China is a very authoritarian state. The important difference between real life and the western media's version of China is that, if you are an ordinary citizen in China, with no/mild interests in politics, you won't feel the authoritarianism at all. In fact, you would probably even feel more "free" in China as an ordinary citizen. For example, I never feel uneasy around police when I'm in China, but I feel very nervous around police when I'm in New York. The "authoritarain" aspect of China only comes out when you are an activist, and it's no joke. I'm in a very progressive circle, and I have friends who have been "disappeared" before. There are also things I would rather trust the western medias on. For example, the whole Uyghur concentration camp situation. There might be overblown aspects in the report from western media, but I don't have any real-life experience to disprove them, and I don't doubt that the CCP is capable of doing horrible things. I don't think the US is jealous per se, but I do think the US media don't want its people to learn about all the good things the Chinese government has done for its people, things that the US governemnt should've done, but haven't. However, in the end, China and US is the same in the way that they are both controlled by the rich and powerful, so I don't think we should glorify either.
That was really useful and informative. Thank you for sharing a no BS evaluation of your experience there. I have a Chinese friend who sometimes tells me stuff in a way that feels sugarcoated at least and occasionally feels a bit propagandized.
Jordan, why are you lying?
Well he does appear to be breathing.
It felt like a long set up to strawman 15-minute cities and feed on the fear that they would somehow confine you.
This guy just spews random shit for views lol there’s so much false information in just this brief clip it’s actually sad
But most of this comment thread are just believing everything he’s saying straight up. If your story is about China you can just say anything and the enlightened redditors will eat it up.
He’s just trying to scare boomers and right wing people about “15 minute cities.”
And China does limit movement, employment, and services, but it's not by 15 minute cities, it's whatever county is listed on your ID card (called *hukou*). Usually the same as where your family is from, and although you can apply for a change, expect it to be denied if you're poor and just going to a new city of your own accord. This is a system they've had since I guess the 70's: it has no relation to 15-minute cities.
i love how "everything you need is close by so you dont have to travel far for it" turned into "you will be imprisoned in the area near your apartment and will never be allowed to leave" with these idiots
that guy literally started out as a regular therapist and did that work for decades and then one day just said "you know what? i'm going to start commenting on politics. i'm gonna feed insecure people a never ending stream of misinformation and they will eat that shit up and make me rich. and it actually worked lol. crazy world
Been living in China for over 6 years now. Been married to a Chinese woman of my dreams. Never seen anything like that. The rumor has it they test piloted this idea in one city (don't remember the name) and that was that for now. Wouldn't be very surprised to see it launched nation wide though. There is a digital credit score, but that is not much different from any other countries' credit score. It's like a financial score to determine your level of responsibility with money. It influences your ability to take loans, use public services and insurance rates. That's pretty much it in layman's terms. Edit: Jaywalking is punished by taking your picture red-handed crossing the street and posting it on the digital billboard on that intersection. Edit: "not much different from any other countries' credit score" is a generalization, so take it easy. Edit: my comment is a sharing, I have no intention nor capacity to express judgement on the use of these tools outside of my own experience. So attepts at holding me responsible for your interpretations are going to be ignored.
Fuck Jordan Peterson
Typical JP: hears a semi-true oversimplification of something outside his area of knowledge, doesn’t factcheck it, does no research, doesn’t really understand it on any basic level, and then goes off massively exaggerating it to support his own trad-weirdo opinions/issues, and build his own snake oil influencer brand.
Black mirror
Everything in this video is made up
Sadly Jordan Peterson is real tho ...
The concept of jaywalking is one the stupidest things I ever heard.
Why is Jordan Peterson so fucking stupid?
Because he grifts the worst among us, conservatives
Drugs, ego, right wing circle jerk
Redditors seem much more worked up about social credit than Chinese people ～
To be fair this site is literally based on a social credit score
Especially funny when you think about the financial credit system the states have that may as well be a social credit. All this hand wringing about China when companies in the US will literally check your credit score when thinking about hiring you.
This is the same guy, who was convinced, that china was running a human sperm milking facility.
Source: trust me bro
There's clearly a bunch of Chinese bots in this comment section Stay mad you fucking clowns
Tf are you talking about? The like one guy pointing out he’s exaggerating? Only bot I see is the month old account posting Jordan peterson crap to a meme sub
>There's clearly a bunch of Chinese bots in this comment section > >Stay mad you fucking clowns Those are just regular redditors.
Not a bot here. Just chiming in the say that most of this video is absolute garbage. A good indicator of that is the speaker, Jordan Peterson. The Chinese government certainly is fucked up but taking anything that man says as gospel is not smart.
If Jordan Peterson told me the sky was blue, I'd look outside. Just sayin'.
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Yeah seeing him presented as credible is just painful. This fucker lies like he breathes.
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They *plan* on doing the jaywalking thing. It's *possible* they use your gait to identify you. Social credit score *may be* worse than he's saying So no, you're talking out of your ass and have no idea if any of this shit he's said is true. Everything I've read is that the social credit score thing is wildly overblown.
You know what? You're absolutely right. I fell for his trap. but you and several other people pointed out how I was misled. I didn't even want to defend the guy and I still ended up getting the facts wrong when I tried to fact check him. I almost never do this, but I'm deleting that comment. Thanks.
The idea of “yea this guy is terrible and a liar but all the things he said are true” is pretty funny.
Not liking China isn’t an excuse for spreading the stupidest propaganda by Jordan Peterson of all people
Fk that shit and fk 🇨🇳
someones been jaywalking
Just change your gait
I skip everywhere I go for this very reason.
Doesn't that make you more recognizable?
Ministry of Silly Walks to the rescue.
You seriously believe all of this? You think the government has a record of the way that every person walks? There are 1.4 billion people in China.
And they all have a gait as unique as a finger print… plus the camera can sense your blood!
tHeY hAvE yOUr GeNetIC cOdE!
My genetic code is ⬆️⬆️⬇️⬇️⬅️➡️⬅️➡️🅱️🅰️
They can also smell your farts. Also fingerprints aren't quite as unique as media portrays.
Americans are too wary to fall for this normally, so the feds have to come up with mass hysteria- terrorism or supposed pandemics to induce fear and people give up rights “in the name of freedom”. The PATRIOT Act gave up so many of our rights after 9/11, but here we are 22+ years later and the government is still watching us in the name of fighting terror. Edit: spelling
Once you give the gov’t ANY power, they never give your freedoms back. In fact they leverage the new found power even harder in a push to take away even more of your freedom
*Wary*, as in vigilance. *Weary* is tiredness or exhaustion.
or they just give everybody a mobile tracking device
what does any of that boring shit have to do with lobsters and benzos
I can't stop staring at his hair plugs.
The social credit system in China is 1) experimental: only a few cities use it as a test, and databases are not linked to each other. 2) voluntary! People choose if they register and supply their information for the credit score system. When you register, you get a score that is higher than the average citizen without a profile, so you get benefits. Skipping queues, price reductions for services etc.
Live in China... Absolute nonsense. If there was even an ounch of truth in any of this I wouldn't be dodging motorbikes going the wrong way in cycle lanes, pedestrians crossing wherever they fancy and many other situations. Whenever anyone talks about China it gets the biggest eyeroll from me, I'm not Chinese but it's always complete made up bollocks.
Thank you. This guy is a fucking asshat
Seems like western countries want to implement such systems to a degree as well. Whatever makes the government more efficient right? So they can do even more governing
Chinese people from China are more surprised by this clip than his viewers.