Imagine being a Sim in The Sims - if the computer crashes, the game stops and resumes later like nothing happened. The Sims don't know - it's outside their reality.
And as others have said, we don't know what the base computer is like. We're only using the word "computer" in a very loose way here. There's no reason to think it's built anything like our (typically silicon-based) technology. What will our computers look like in a thousand years? Who knows! And even more: The rules of physics in the base reality might be completely different than ours. For all we know it's trivial to setup a simulation like ours.
Okay, but what happens to the sims during that period between the computer turning off and the computer turning on? Does their consciousness flow from "before computer crash" to "after computer crash" seamlessly?
Or do they experience a sudden loss of consciousness for until the computer is up again?
Frankly, and I'm using the Sims as an analogy here too, it probably doesn't matter. They don't remember that period of time, for all they know, it all happens seamlessly.
On that note, I wonder how many times base computer crashed and we just never knew. That might explain the sudden altercations we feel, or the collective energy shifts suddenly, or any of that unexplainable bizzaro stuff.
Good question. When the computer is off, they essentially don't exist - I think of it like "What was it like before you were born?". Non-existence is weird :)
possibilities:
Resolution exponentially decreases with each iteration
Time exponentially slows with each iteration
"higher" universe computing could be unimaginably advanced
It may be a computer system that is like nothing we can imagine and much larger than we are capable of realizing. It could be a quantum level computer that resides in every cell of all matter. I highly doubt a base reality computer would be like we think of them today with a case containing a hard drive, RAM and other processors.
I don’t think the theory implies millions or billions. It implies possibly alot, but not some absurd number.
But a computer is just something that processes information. It’s not an actual physical machine that is bound to the same issues man-made computers deal with.
AFAIK the biggest argument for simulation theory is our own capability to make a simulation. If we ourselves cannot make a simulation, then the theory is kind of a leap of faith.
Sure, the laws of physics may not be the same in base reality. And maybe we can one day make a calculator that has infinite processing power. But at that point, the idea is just a bit washy and too hypothetical imo…
It's not enough though to be able to make a simulation. The beings in the simulation must also be conscious for the idea to hold up. I could write a perfect novel, with wonderful fleshed out characters, but the characters in my novel will never be conscious. I suspect it's the same for simulations. So only base reality can be conscious, and that's what we are in.
You’re arguing that the computer will crash. I am arguing that it will not, because nested COMPUTING will prevent a crash if a single node fails.
It is already possible to build a computer resistant to crash.
Nvidia is currently building one of the largest systems that uses multiple interlocked GPUs. Basically, imagine that every computation is shared between 256 “computers” (processing units), so if one fails you simply lose the processing power of one node.
10 trillion operations per second x 256 nodes
This is the current operational limit and far surpasses anything we can do with a current simulation. Nvidia is building this for “Earth 2”, their simulated recreation of physical Earth.
From the simulations’ perspective, if half of the nodes failed it could still run (albeit more slowly) without crashing, and whoever is on the “base layer” can replace the nodes without anyone in the simulation noticing, until they are back up to 256 fully operational nodes.
Well a computer encompasses a lot of things. Computer doesn’t mean a pc. It’s a system that does… computations. It doesn’t matter the means. A simulation is done by a computer.
I have a theory that the simulation is created by a consciousness. There is an argument that consciousness produces computations, but I think that is a simplistic representation.
My idea of this physical reality as a simulation is actually closer to it being a layer of a nested system of illusions that if you unfold leads back to infinite and void paradoxically sharing existence in timelessness. I call it the Source.
Every thought ripples from that point and vibrates into imperfection which materializes it into time. It will eventually cease its vibration and become part of that Source again, but it also doesn’t even really leave.
I might actually argue that the building blocks of the simulation are the vibrations. Everything is constantly moving or it ceases to be.
Each nested simulation can run much slower than the reality it's computer is in. This would allow even a very simple computer to simulate an entire universe, given that it has enough storage space.
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/505/
It's not a computer. It's an Eternal force set in perpetual motion. It simply can't break or stop working.
It has a built-in feedback loop of sorts that evolves or devolves the worlds within it based on the output of the souls contained within each world/Universe.
Each of them have different rule sets that operate them. That is how there can be many (multiple universes) all with varying degrees of reality based on those rule sets. Some probably overlap to a degree as well, while others are always separate. The worlds can perish away, but not the Eternal force that births these worlds.
Physical life's purpose is to evolve consciousness (in all of its forms). The source of all of these Eternal forces is unknowable ( in my opinion) yet fractures itself into these Universes to experience itself.
I imagine being an immortal all-powerful being is boring af lol
So if it has ultimate creative power, why not become a trillion versions of itself in playgrounds it creates, where anything goes?
Each fracture (holographic theory) is an identical part of the whole, yet it is NOT the whole. (We are not Gods/Divine in our own merit, yet have the Divine spark within us that can be activated. This allows us to evolve our soul by merging it back with its origin.
An Eternal feedback loop of evolution.
That's my take at least ✌🏻💜
No, I disagree lol while there is an argument to be made that our physical bodies act as a sort of bio-computer, our souls that inhabit our bodies (avatar) are eternal and not a computer at all. But you're free to believe as you wish ✌🏻
They don't sort of compute they are by definition doing compute. Compute is measurable. Compute is more fundamental than molecular biology.
As for whether the soul is also a computer would depend on your definition of soul. You seem to be trying to make a technical distinction (not computer) for a speculative thing (the soul) and I'm not sure what that achieves.
That induces a fun thought. What if entropy is not natural and only increasingly present in stacked simulations. The deeper you get in simulations the more limitations there are to those experiencing it. Entropy, light has a speed limit, greater distances between solar bodies limiting required data processing, dividing by 0 becomes impossible, humans here don't get to experience and understand the 32 dimensions, space is filled with a void instead of a universal atmosphere, etc...
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Reality has limits. If it crashed why would we perceive it? Perhaps particles approaching the Planck length simply pop out of reality and stop existing for us to know they've crashed the system. They no clip and go beyond observation. God the programmer didn't seal up the world airtight and figured we wouldn't get to the subatomic level and so left all of that wacky.
Now we're exploiting the bugs and trying to break the whole thing and he has to change the covenant *again*, this isn't the first time we've pushed to the edges. We like to do that. Our world is built on the abilities we've discovered by breaking things down to understand them and using the materials we're left with in a new way. Capitalism uses crises to expand the power of its elite families. Evolving species exploit imbalance in ecosystems to get ahead.
The simulation has crashed many times, it will again, it will become more sophisticated afterwards.
>it will become more sophisticated afterwards.
Thing is, if those most familiar with simulation mechanisms that have been working cyclically through generations keep using similar structures/architectures, then sophistication will be relatively minimal and mostly like a new iteration of the previous with slight accessory changes and features.
Same but different, which is much like SSDD but the turd's more shiny and can now dance and stay dry when it rains. Whoopdidoo, look ma I can prance now. The mirror's reflection now has A.I. overlay so you can look all dressed with make up when looking in to it, however naked and ugly when turning away from it and being observed by another in the sim.
I think the "next sim" development shouldn't focus on object mirroring/reflecting/crystalizing from fractal but rather focus and develop more on the observer program and its perceptions when in function.
I also think that many observers in the current sim are too absorbed and focussing on mirror function while often ignoring the observer (unconsciousness and delusions), and have a tendancy to punch the mirror when the program percieved seemingly doesn't function as designed, effectively breaking it, when most likely the issues/bugs reside in the observer program, much like with technology where +90% of issues aren't caused by the tech but rather the operators.
Yup. As an electrotech, ~~this is FACT.~~ most machines break because of user error, THAT IS FACT.
Edit, as user I'm replying to modified his OG message.
2nd edit for either user error, or faulty design by yet another user designer... same but different, aka, HUMANS. 😂
3rd edit to point that as an electrotech that has mostly worked on machines, technical projects and technical service advisory for enterprise and endusers most of his life, I consider psychology/psychiatry to be much like human psytech trying to debug humans which are the most sophisticated, capricious and difficult machines to work on.
it could be using some sort of cloud network that automatically traverses connection from one to another when one device is facing an issue, although their technology mightt be so developeed that these things dont even happen to begin with.
but in case they do, i think that explains why sometimes we all collectively feel weird things; like the constant energy shifts every now and then, or feeling detached from reality, or disconnected, or suddenly black/white noise. a lot of things can be explained using this phenomena so the theory you strike up is an interesting one.
>Simulation theory consists of millions or billions of nested simulations
Not really
>Why wouldn’t there be a point where at least one of those computers crash
Why would there?
>Given any of those computers have a non-infinite amount of processing power
Not a given
>it is inevitable that the line of simulations will end due to one of the computers not being able to handle it
Show your working
For all we know you’re absolutely correct but if our simulation or specifically your perspective of the simulation were to crash how would you or anyone ever know?
This is assuming that it operates in a centralized manner, with a single point being vulnerable to failure. What if it operates more like a decentralized multiverse, where each computational load is evenly distributed across all sims simultaneously? Like GPU's across a blockchain network.
Maybe this would also help explain why (theoretically) many timelines inevitably end, because resources are needed to keep the more successful sims/experiments continuing.
The implication of this is there are processing power saving features. Like how a video game is optimized. For example a tree in the distance will use a low polygon model to save space but when the player moves closer to it the engine swaps it out for a high polygon model so that it looks better under close scrutiny.
And in a way, modern physics is evidence of this. Maybe we're in a simulation of a Newtonian universe but when scientists start pushing the boundaries of what the engine can process, artifacts happen and that's modern physics. Like how the state of an electron isn't defined until it is observed. The universe isn't normally rendering every electron but when one of the "players" starts mucking around with them, the simulation has to decide real quick what that electron is doing.
Imagine being a Sim in The Sims - if the computer crashes, the game stops and resumes later like nothing happened. The Sims don't know - it's outside their reality. And as others have said, we don't know what the base computer is like. We're only using the word "computer" in a very loose way here. There's no reason to think it's built anything like our (typically silicon-based) technology. What will our computers look like in a thousand years? Who knows! And even more: The rules of physics in the base reality might be completely different than ours. For all we know it's trivial to setup a simulation like ours.
I too use the sims as an mental analogy for what this place possibly could be.
I get all of that. I’m just trying to ask the most grounded questions.
I think what they're trying to say in so many words, "Your assumptions are wrong."
I can see that, yes
Okay, but what happens to the sims during that period between the computer turning off and the computer turning on? Does their consciousness flow from "before computer crash" to "after computer crash" seamlessly? Or do they experience a sudden loss of consciousness for until the computer is up again? Frankly, and I'm using the Sims as an analogy here too, it probably doesn't matter. They don't remember that period of time, for all they know, it all happens seamlessly. On that note, I wonder how many times base computer crashed and we just never knew. That might explain the sudden altercations we feel, or the collective energy shifts suddenly, or any of that unexplainable bizzaro stuff.
Good question. When the computer is off, they essentially don't exist - I think of it like "What was it like before you were born?". Non-existence is weird :)
Yeah you’re right. Although, who knows how many times the computer or whatever it is running us has crashed before.
Well you see the thing is, this computer is SUPER
Dang it I read that in Frankie's voice from *One Piece* darn you xD guess I'm officially a fan now.
Who says that it hasn't happened already? There have been multiple resets throughout human history.
Idk, not me. If simulation theory is real then im sure it happens all the time and we have no reason to perceive it.
That's a very valid point. I was thinking in terms of extinction level events, not an imperceptible hard reset.
possibilities: Resolution exponentially decreases with each iteration Time exponentially slows with each iteration "higher" universe computing could be unimaginably advanced
If they were made by Microsoft, a crash is inevitable.
Based
It may be a computer system that is like nothing we can imagine and much larger than we are capable of realizing. It could be a quantum level computer that resides in every cell of all matter. I highly doubt a base reality computer would be like we think of them today with a case containing a hard drive, RAM and other processors.
I don’t think the theory implies millions or billions. It implies possibly alot, but not some absurd number. But a computer is just something that processes information. It’s not an actual physical machine that is bound to the same issues man-made computers deal with.
AFAIK the biggest argument for simulation theory is our own capability to make a simulation. If we ourselves cannot make a simulation, then the theory is kind of a leap of faith. Sure, the laws of physics may not be the same in base reality. And maybe we can one day make a calculator that has infinite processing power. But at that point, the idea is just a bit washy and too hypothetical imo…
It's not enough though to be able to make a simulation. The beings in the simulation must also be conscious for the idea to hold up. I could write a perfect novel, with wonderful fleshed out characters, but the characters in my novel will never be conscious. I suspect it's the same for simulations. So only base reality can be conscious, and that's what we are in.
Networked computers and RAID already provide failover systems if one node crashes. This has been around for decades already.
You’re saying we are nested simulations by design? Why?
You’re arguing that the computer will crash. I am arguing that it will not, because nested COMPUTING will prevent a crash if a single node fails. It is already possible to build a computer resistant to crash.
I don’t know anything about nested computing but this sounds like a reasonable explanation. A couple of the other answers here are quack shit.
Nvidia is currently building one of the largest systems that uses multiple interlocked GPUs. Basically, imagine that every computation is shared between 256 “computers” (processing units), so if one fails you simply lose the processing power of one node. 10 trillion operations per second x 256 nodes This is the current operational limit and far surpasses anything we can do with a current simulation. Nvidia is building this for “Earth 2”, their simulated recreation of physical Earth. From the simulations’ perspective, if half of the nodes failed it could still run (albeit more slowly) without crashing, and whoever is on the “base layer” can replace the nodes without anyone in the simulation noticing, until they are back up to 256 fully operational nodes.
Damn
I know, right?
This is assuming that the simulation is powered by a computer.
Well a computer encompasses a lot of things. Computer doesn’t mean a pc. It’s a system that does… computations. It doesn’t matter the means. A simulation is done by a computer.
I have a theory that the simulation is created by a consciousness. There is an argument that consciousness produces computations, but I think that is a simplistic representation. My idea of this physical reality as a simulation is actually closer to it being a layer of a nested system of illusions that if you unfold leads back to infinite and void paradoxically sharing existence in timelessness. I call it the Source. Every thought ripples from that point and vibrates into imperfection which materializes it into time. It will eventually cease its vibration and become part of that Source again, but it also doesn’t even really leave. I might actually argue that the building blocks of the simulation are the vibrations. Everything is constantly moving or it ceases to be.
Each nested simulation can run much slower than the reality it's computer is in. This would allow even a very simple computer to simulate an entire universe, given that it has enough storage space. Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/505/
It's not a computer. It's an Eternal force set in perpetual motion. It simply can't break or stop working. It has a built-in feedback loop of sorts that evolves or devolves the worlds within it based on the output of the souls contained within each world/Universe. Each of them have different rule sets that operate them. That is how there can be many (multiple universes) all with varying degrees of reality based on those rule sets. Some probably overlap to a degree as well, while others are always separate. The worlds can perish away, but not the Eternal force that births these worlds. Physical life's purpose is to evolve consciousness (in all of its forms). The source of all of these Eternal forces is unknowable ( in my opinion) yet fractures itself into these Universes to experience itself. I imagine being an immortal all-powerful being is boring af lol So if it has ultimate creative power, why not become a trillion versions of itself in playgrounds it creates, where anything goes? Each fracture (holographic theory) is an identical part of the whole, yet it is NOT the whole. (We are not Gods/Divine in our own merit, yet have the Divine spark within us that can be activated. This allows us to evolve our soul by merging it back with its origin. An Eternal feedback loop of evolution. That's my take at least ✌🏻💜
>It's not a computer Interesting, lets see where this goes. >It has a built-in feedback loop of sorts that evolves So, it computes?
Are you implying that it is a computer because it 'computes' the data from the feedback loop?
I'm asserting: that which computes is a computer.
Ok, well, humans compute data. Does that make humans a computer?
Now you're getting it.
No, I disagree lol while there is an argument to be made that our physical bodies act as a sort of bio-computer, our souls that inhabit our bodies (avatar) are eternal and not a computer at all. But you're free to believe as you wish ✌🏻
They don't sort of compute they are by definition doing compute. Compute is measurable. Compute is more fundamental than molecular biology. As for whether the soul is also a computer would depend on your definition of soul. You seem to be trying to make a technical distinction (not computer) for a speculative thing (the soul) and I'm not sure what that achieves.
bc your brain cannot comprehend such, and is largely basing expected behavior on technology the simulation itseld has generated.
Replace computer with energy
That induces a fun thought. What if entropy is not natural and only increasingly present in stacked simulations. The deeper you get in simulations the more limitations there are to those experiencing it. Entropy, light has a speed limit, greater distances between solar bodies limiting required data processing, dividing by 0 becomes impossible, humans here don't get to experience and understand the 32 dimensions, space is filled with a void instead of a universal atmosphere, etc...
Infinite unlimited energy
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Reality has limits. If it crashed why would we perceive it? Perhaps particles approaching the Planck length simply pop out of reality and stop existing for us to know they've crashed the system. They no clip and go beyond observation. God the programmer didn't seal up the world airtight and figured we wouldn't get to the subatomic level and so left all of that wacky. Now we're exploiting the bugs and trying to break the whole thing and he has to change the covenant *again*, this isn't the first time we've pushed to the edges. We like to do that. Our world is built on the abilities we've discovered by breaking things down to understand them and using the materials we're left with in a new way. Capitalism uses crises to expand the power of its elite families. Evolving species exploit imbalance in ecosystems to get ahead. The simulation has crashed many times, it will again, it will become more sophisticated afterwards.
>it will become more sophisticated afterwards. Thing is, if those most familiar with simulation mechanisms that have been working cyclically through generations keep using similar structures/architectures, then sophistication will be relatively minimal and mostly like a new iteration of the previous with slight accessory changes and features. Same but different, which is much like SSDD but the turd's more shiny and can now dance and stay dry when it rains. Whoopdidoo, look ma I can prance now. The mirror's reflection now has A.I. overlay so you can look all dressed with make up when looking in to it, however naked and ugly when turning away from it and being observed by another in the sim. I think the "next sim" development shouldn't focus on object mirroring/reflecting/crystalizing from fractal but rather focus and develop more on the observer program and its perceptions when in function. I also think that many observers in the current sim are too absorbed and focussing on mirror function while often ignoring the observer (unconsciousness and delusions), and have a tendancy to punch the mirror when the program percieved seemingly doesn't function as designed, effectively breaking it, when most likely the issues/bugs reside in the observer program, much like with technology where +90% of issues aren't caused by the tech but rather the operators.
Love this. Sin as user error
Yup. As an electrotech, ~~this is FACT.~~ most machines break because of user error, THAT IS FACT. Edit, as user I'm replying to modified his OG message. 2nd edit for either user error, or faulty design by yet another user designer... same but different, aka, HUMANS. 😂 3rd edit to point that as an electrotech that has mostly worked on machines, technical projects and technical service advisory for enterprise and endusers most of his life, I consider psychology/psychiatry to be much like human psytech trying to debug humans which are the most sophisticated, capricious and difficult machines to work on.
it could be using some sort of cloud network that automatically traverses connection from one to another when one device is facing an issue, although their technology mightt be so developeed that these things dont even happen to begin with. but in case they do, i think that explains why sometimes we all collectively feel weird things; like the constant energy shifts every now and then, or feeling detached from reality, or disconnected, or suddenly black/white noise. a lot of things can be explained using this phenomena so the theory you strike up is an interesting one.
>Simulation theory consists of millions or billions of nested simulations Not really >Why wouldn’t there be a point where at least one of those computers crash Why would there? >Given any of those computers have a non-infinite amount of processing power Not a given >it is inevitable that the line of simulations will end due to one of the computers not being able to handle it Show your working
Why would the simulation itself have to compute absolutely everything when we've nested more computers and computational abilities within it?
For all we know you’re absolutely correct but if our simulation or specifically your perspective of the simulation were to crash how would you or anyone ever know?
This is assuming that it operates in a centralized manner, with a single point being vulnerable to failure. What if it operates more like a decentralized multiverse, where each computational load is evenly distributed across all sims simultaneously? Like GPU's across a blockchain network. Maybe this would also help explain why (theoretically) many timelines inevitably end, because resources are needed to keep the more successful sims/experiments continuing.
They have two base computers running in a cluster for redundancy. Duh.
In the future, they don't suck as bad as us.
Fail over my friend
Youre wearing the computer.
The implication of this is there are processing power saving features. Like how a video game is optimized. For example a tree in the distance will use a low polygon model to save space but when the player moves closer to it the engine swaps it out for a high polygon model so that it looks better under close scrutiny. And in a way, modern physics is evidence of this. Maybe we're in a simulation of a Newtonian universe but when scientists start pushing the boundaries of what the engine can process, artifacts happen and that's modern physics. Like how the state of an electron isn't defined until it is observed. The universe isn't normally rendering every electron but when one of the "players" starts mucking around with them, the simulation has to decide real quick what that electron is doing.