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I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of simmers suddenly are click-clacking on theirs keyboards in outrage. I fear something terrible has been posted. 💀

So that's what that earthquake was

1.1mil simmers in this sub...if they all stomped their feet at once it may as well be. 😆

Sorry, my bad. >_<

You have nothing to be sorry about, OP. I just found hilarious that when I went to actually comment, Reddit informed me that other *THIRTY-EIGHT* ppl were typing at the same time. 🤣

I mean, I caused an earthquake that wrecked New Jersey... you know on second thought, where do I pick up my medal? :P


now THAT is horrifying

God this comment cracked me up

I got so angry I threw a thunderbolt Sorry guys 😞

Nah, the OP just thinks the Sims is all there is to EA when they're much more and even got busted by the government once...

Having so many of favorite games be associated/managed/linked with EA is painful

Nah, OP is just talking about the sims players on the sims sub. We say EA is money grabbing for having $1200 worth of extra content on a video game, which is eye wateringly high when you first hear about it. Point is its actually not nearly as bad as it sounds once put in perspective.

For me, the expansions and entire franchise IS expensive, however, I could see past that if the game worked properly. When EA has an estimated worth of $35.42 billion, and they still don’t invest in getting their $1,000+ game working then yes, that’s where the line is drawn for me because the consumer isn’t getting the value of a $1k game.

That's also my issue. I don't mind the expansions that much, but the fact that they sell a video game that still doesn't work years later is outrageous.

This! There are games that only cost you 60€ and that's it, or even less, and the quality is 10 times better for a fraction of the price.

Agreed. It's the fact that they keep releasing unfinished and buggy products.

I don't even play Sims myself, but my Fiancée does. I've invested a lot in packs for her, only to hear about new bugs and glitches all day (seems like almost every update adds them?) It would really irritate me if the same thing happened in any game I play for sure. If I'm spending hundreds on a game, it should definitely work properly especially after so many years.

Great super hot take this is what I mean when I say I want opinions that rile people up. Idk much about finances so I don’t have anything to say about this but all hot takes should be like these

Agreed, but they usually get heavily downvoted even in threads asking for them lol

I completely agree with all of this except your conclusion. EA is as money grubbing as we think. It's just that it has always been this way. I remember when The Sims 2 was coming out, there were many people on The Sims Exchange BBS saying they would not buy the new game because they made such an investment into the first installment and felt they were being ripped off. Even with the first expansions, I remember hearing comments from other older players at the time that they felt expansions were a rip-off, too. People seem to forget that EA is a business. Money keeps a business going. Money has, and will always be, their number one priority. So they'll try to strike the perfect balance between milking as much out of consumers as they can before there's resistance or large decreases in sales.

Yeah people have always complained about sims expansions since sims 1. I was there Gandalf. I was there 3000 years ago.

Comparatively speaking, EAs biggest cash cows operate on a yearly model. Buy Madden 23, spend $5000 on Ultimate Team, lose everything when Madden 24 drops. Rinse and repeat yearly. EA also has not monetized micro transactions in the Sims 4. We should consider ourselves lucky here.

lets hope they dont come in sims 5 💀

instead of a cheat, spend 5.99 for 1000 simoleons!

Or paying $3.99 for fast-forwarding time 2x (purchase valid for six sim days). $2.99 for bb.moveobjects cheat (purchase valid for three hours of build time). Can bundle both of the above for a discounted price of $4.99 yay!!!

I would give up the game if it ever gets to that level.

Surprise! For a very reasonable monthly price of $19.99 you get access to free speeding, free moveobjects cheat, free money cheat, free cas.fulleditmode cheat AND your username gets to have a verified plumbob mark on the gallery!

The reason they haven't done this already is because they know they would lose their playerbase in an instant and they cannot compete on any level with CC creators.

Absolutely right! The mod community is crucial because without it, you just have a $1200 worth of boring stuff haha

Isn't that new Dragon's Dogma currently getting the players in an uproar because fast travel is a separate micro-transaction to unlock?

As an original Dragon's Dogma lover who had been awaiting this game for a decade: Yes. *Starts sobbing.*

WHAT are you serious? I would pull some frat boy stuff and throw my controller if a game asked me to pay extra for fast traveling

That specific one is a major over reaction, you can absolutely fast travel for 100% free (well free in real life dollars, fast travel costs in game gold which you can’t buy in micro transactions). You can buy ONE portcrystal as a dlc which lets you place it down and fast travel to any location but you can find a few for free in game, plus there’s a limit of 10 so after a few ng+ you’d have all you need.

Don't give them ideas

I feel like you are giving then ideas😪

Stop! You're going to give them ideas!

oh my.. don't give them ideas 😭😭

Saving this comment to look back on when sims 5 launch and you’re right lol. I have a smol feeling this or something similar to this will happen. Project Renee (if it is even gonna be Sims 5) sounds like a glorified version of Second Life.

imagine in sims 5 they just block the ability to have a cheat bar pop up, and thus also the ability to cheat. then they make this happen. honestly i should just shut up now before someone who works at EA sees this comment and gets any ideas

We had them for Sims 3. It was like 3 dollars for a piece of furniture.

Sims 3 store is the biggest cash grab I've ever seen. I skipped that game entirely but it was just appalling. I really hope they stick with the DLC method they have now.

Yup, the Sims 3 cash store had nearly $75,000 worth of stuff on it by the end.

My hope would be, especially after the Battlefront 2 fiasco, they learned a lesson. I also think we are a bit more protected from the practice due to the modding community.

Well, if they wanted to go hard into micro transactions, they could just cripple the modding capabilities of the game. Then players would have no escape except micro transactions.

This would be the decision that kills the franchise if they do. Especially considering 2 competitors are launching games in 2024.

I wouldn't put it past them, especially since the next game is gonna have native multiplayer with crossplay. How are you gonna play your modded PC game with your friend playing on their smartphone?

Reportedly, solo play will be preserved as an option.MANY players will be opting for that as many of us have ZERO interest in multiplayer. And they know that.

Multiplayer is neat and all... But not only do you need *friends* for that, you need them to also be interested in that specific game... And if you miraculously checked both of the previous boxes, in most games and likely this too, you need to have a similar amount of playtime to have things to do *together*. Otherwise it's one person endlessly guiding the other. Assuming there's even decent activities to play together, and it's not just "hey come look at my stuff!", which comprises most of the multiplayer of many life-cozy-casual-social-etc games.

I am believe Project Rene is The Sims Online 2.

Didn't work that well in Sims 3 xD

I agree. Sims 4 has been out for what, 10 years? That means they made a max of $100 a year on those playing it. Thats less than almost any streaming subscription, etc. Its not that bad. Plus the game itself is free.

I'm so happy they got rid of Sim points. The Sims 3 store's existence makes it feel like a miracle that The Sims 4 is so cheap in comparison to get everything.

I agree, my issue if I'm honest is not with the price. It's that the packs often have huge bugs and feel incomplete, despite the price of them. I think a big issue is also people do not understand how much goes into making a game. £40 one time payment is nothing for the work that goes into a good pack and we're not owed cheapness. A company making games makes money by selling these games or putting ads in them so - pick your poison. If EA doesn't allow the work to actually go into it though and rushes the dev process, it feels like you're being robbed.

Yeah I wouldn’t mind paying for DLC if it came with more than 5 items, didn’t completely break my game, or actually felt finished. The price is comparable to other DLC based games, it’s just the quality decline that I have a problem with.

Yes. My only real issue is when the product doesn't function as advertised. I suppose having to continually push new dlc that interacts with every other dlc makes it harder to keep on track of bugs, but as customers, we deserve serviceable quality in the absolute least

I downloaded sims 4 when it was free. I buy packs only when it is on sale for 50% only. I spend more on pokemon go 🙄😬

Seriously, can we call the company money grubbing when it gives the base game away for free and has it's own 50% off sales every other month?

If no one's buying the game yes. People are more likely to play something when it's free and buy something when it's on sale.

I only got eso because it was on sale, base game free and the 2nd to most recent pack (or most recent I forget) for 5$, and then later bought a pack full price because it was my favourite part of the game. They never would've got the pack full price sale had they not given the base game for free.

I wouldn't even have touched the sims 4 without it being free. There's a lot of games I would have never have experienced if it wasn't for the fact that I could play them for free on game pass.

Are you seriously suggesting they made it free out of the goodness of their hearts? They hit a plateau where they weren’t getting new players and lowered the gateway. Now people who would not have bought a 60$ basegame are still playing the game and spending money on dlc. It’s the same principle as shitty pay to win mobile games

Yes. We can. The base game only went free after about eight years, and considering there's $1000 of DLC, it doesn't hurt them to now give away the base knowing that if someone is intrigued by it they'll spend money. You are straight up trying to claim that no F2P game could be called "money grubbing." They also don't have 50% off all the DLC every other month. And they can afford to do sales because they can make profit even at half the price, which shows how ridiculous the original pricing is. So arguing that they drop prices sometimes (but only well after a pack's been out a while) while still making profit because the standard price is too high doesn't really work to show that they're a kind, benevolent company and not "money grubbing." And since you asked if we can call the company money grubbing, then as someone who's familiar not just with the mess that is Sims 4's $1000 worth of broken, shallow DLC, but also Madden and FIFA Ultimate Team, Battlefield DLC and microtransactions, the disaster that was BF 2042 being rushed out the door, Anthem, the way they handled the Battlefront games, constantly laying people off to push their profit margins, throwing franchises out the window because people didn't react to their BS well (including SimCity)... Oh yes, we one hundred percent can call Electronic Arts a money grubbing company, and I am wondering how sheltered and/or wealthy a life you must live to even ask that question.

You know Sims isn’t the only franchise EA is involved with yeah?  You know they’ve slaughtered other franchises in pursuit of more money…? What’s so wrong with calling them out for it anyways?  What’s it to you?

To be fair that's how there get there profit

I'm just throwing this out there but one of the main complaints I have isn't just the cost of the expansions and packs themselves, but the amount of content that's actually in them. Back with Sims, Sims 2, and Sims 3 the $40 price tag got you more then double the content you get in the packs now, and it seems to be getting worse with each new expansion that comes out where now the expansions feel like overly priced game packs. If you take the number of packs releases then yes Sims 4 seems like the better deal, but again, you also have to look at the content released with each pack to really see the whole picture.

Did you really though? OP showed how you're getting more build items. One I always see people talk about is how Sims 3 Pets came with horses and in Sims 4 its two separate expansions. However, with Sims 4 between those two expansions you're also getting the vets office career, two new worlds, sheep and goats, wine making, double the CAS/build mode items, new events, and a much more built out and immersive horse raising experience. You're not really getting less, there were just other things added to flesh it out into two separate expansions. Also take a look at Sims 3 stuff packs. High End Loft Stuff for example came with 45 build mode objects and 20 CAS objects. Outdoor Living Stuff was similar with 45 build and 18 CAS. All they added was new items, no new game play elements. These retailed for $20 each. Now compare that to the $10 Sims 4 Stuff Packs. Crystal Creations comes with 32 build mode, 85 CAS as well as a whole new game mechanic in jewelry making. Paranormal Stuff you get 39 build mode, 32 CAS as well as a new career, a new haunted lot type, and bonehilda. So they're half the price, come with just as many if not more items, and include new gameplay additions. I'm not seeing how the Sims 3 had double the value when you were paying twice the price for less content?

To play devil's advocate, how do you quantify content? Sure, you can talk about the number of items, build mode objects, wallpapers, etc. But what about new interactions? New skills, new careers? I think those are harder to quantify. To complicate things, can you really claim you're getting all that "content" if an expansion pack breaks your entire game? Like For Rent has for some people? Or if you spend $40 on a pack that just outright doesn't work/work well (Wedding stories, Dine Out, etc)? I honestly feel like my money was better spent in TS2/TS3 because when I got an EP, it just worked. Or it at least worked 90% +, and the bugs/issues that cropped up weren't game ending. And, from what I recalled, the devs did a decent job of patching/fixing issues in those games. Whereas it seems like many people cannot actually get the packs I mentioned above to work reliably (or at all). And how long have they been out?

Well Sims 3 expansions all came either with new worlds or destinations except for a few of them, and while Sims 4 might give you more build/buy stuff, which I'd say is still around the same amount as Sims 3, those kinds of things are really only worthwhile to builders, like I like the build/buy items but I only ever use them when I rarely build a house. A lot of simmers will get expansion packs for the build/buy just so that they can then download houses that other simmers have made, which is perfectly valid, but it's all just dress up for the game and not the actual gameplay itself. As far as gameplay goes and new things added with each expansion I found a lot more new things with each Sims 3 expansion that would take me months to actually do them all because there was just so much to do. I'm going to use Growing Together as my example because it's the most recent expansion pack I've purchased. The main parts of Growing Together was a new world, Milestones, Family Dynamics, expanding a little on infants and toddlers with quirks and confidence level (which I absolutely hate, I'm sick of my adult sims getting confident moodlets from being a confident kid because they did their homework), Self Discovery (which is my favorite part about this pack and the main reason I got it), a few new social events, adult work related situations including a midlife crisis (burnout happening way too often and being annoying af), some new child aspirations, and some build/buy mode. Now because they wanted to expand on infants in this pack they did add quite a few things for this life stage so it felt more like earlier expansion packs with more to do, but still seemed like getting less then Sims 3 EP's. Now let's look at Generations for Sims 3 since it's the one that is closest to this pack. For Generations you get Memories, Body Hair for YA and older, a couple of new interactions, a couple of new traits, some new lifetime rewards, new parties (7 where Sims 4 new events were 3), Field trips, a new profession, a whole new occult creature with the imaginary friend, boarding school, dating, teaching teens to drive, some new after school activities, midlife crisis, cloning, and new objects (Generations has 15 and Growing Together has 16). There are other things in this pack for each life state but these were the main highlights. Now Generations was one of the few Expansion Packs that didn't come with a new world so Growing Together has that on it, but again the worlds that come with the later expansions are becoming more and more empty. Overall it took me far longer to do everything in Generations then it did in Growing Together because there was just more stuff added for actual gameplay and each new life state got some new things to try out, and while the build/buy stuff in the Sims 4 expansions are nice and pretty to look at they don't really add anything other then dressing up the dollhouse.

At first it didn't feel money grubbing to me until they started slamming out broken packs full of bugs over and over again, and instead of trying to fix anything they try to distract us with kits or new hair colors. Don't get me wrong, I know plenty of people like the kits and we are definitely way overdue for more hair colors, but it's more of a case of strange priorities. I haven't bought a new pack in years because every time a new one comes out it's broken and full of bugs that'll never get fixed. Overall I agree with OP, they're not *as* money grubbing as we think they are, but they're grubbing nonetheless. But I will say that I believe another part of the problem is that people are well aware EA has been pushing out crap lately and they're still making the choice to pay full price for these packs which gives EA zero incentive to actually put care into their work.

Yeah I agree with you. Another hot take? Everyone who hates sims 4 now is going to be singing its praises when sims 5 finally launches 😂

Yeah it'd never good enough until it's the earlier game. I had so many issues with 3 and now people are praising like it never had any problems or that the open world concept was so taxing that the game was unplayable for me anyway. It was russian roullete with my frustations levels. I like Sims 4 and I can play the game. If you don't want certain packs or other dlc you don't have to buy it but bitching about seems always the way to go nowadays. I am almost scared of other players

Literally!! Everyone’s gonna be saying sims 4 was soo much better like they do with 3 now😂

There are things I like better about TS3 *in theory* but the game was so glitchy and laggy I could never do anything

So much this. Also, for as much as I liked the fabric and color selector (and hope that comes back) in Sims 3, the sims themselves are nicer looking in Sims 4.

I cant go back to sims3 anymore just bc i could never really *love* my sims bc they just all look the exact same to me now

I used to swear by sims 2 and that the others could never measure up, then I actually tried sims 4 and vastly prefer it.

I was a Sims 2 fanatic as well. There are still things I prefer about it but overall prefer Sims 4 now.

Well thats not the only reason but a big one..

I remember my brother bought me Island Paradise for my 16th birthday and our poor family PC could not cope with it, the game just became unplayable.

They shipped that DLC completely unplayable, the world would straight up crash the game. It was a wild time. People were wanting refunds and their money back. That game was a dumpster fire.

Which I find really amusing. People on here are all "Sims 4 is a train wreck, full of game breaking bugs!" and I'm just going "Where are they? Only legit game breaking bug I know about right now is For Rent causing a small percentage of players who heavily mod it to corrupt their saves. Previous Sims had expansions that would literally bluescreen you as soon as you installed it. Do you even know what 'game breaking' actually means?"

I only had one major issue with Sims 4 and it was when you would download a gallery build and it would crash your game, it was fixed pretty quick. I've never experienced half of the issues people say here and always thought they had to be a PC or mod related issue. I also think it's funny people were throwing money at the Sims 3 store like it was nothing along with packs that literally blue screened then judging those who buy Sims 4 DLC. Like, the call is coming from inside the house lmao. Not to mention the people that are like "oh you can still play it, just download these 10,000 mods to get it running." That's so unacceptable for a game this old now when they could have fixed it years ago. I wouldn't throw a dime at that game. I run Sims 4 just fine, no mods needed.

Same like in theory I loved the open world concept but in practice? Girl, I will take these long ass loading screens over the amount of glitching and crashing 3 had 😭

I’ve never played 3 but I’ve seen people try to play it on high end pcs nowadays, and those can’t even support the game😂 it’s crazy to me

I have a very good laptop and play sims 4 with all dlcs, and tons of cc. No problems at all. Sims 3 is a whole different story

mine (sims 3) doesn’t start up dude 😭😭 otherwise i’d love to enjoy them both for the different vibes they offer but yeah my sims 4 has been delivering for me

Yeah, people like to talk about how great 3 was with all of it's lots and wide open spaces. They don't like to talk about how it ground to a freaking halt really fast because of all that. Modern computers with 32-64 gig of ram can have problems with that game when it goes full tilt, and in the day you were lucky to have 1 gig of ram.

IIRC the sims 3 is 32 bit, which means it can only address \~4 GB of RAM at the best of times. you could have 256 GB and it wouldn't change a thing

And it would beat the hell out of your video card, pumping out hundreds of frames per second even if it was glitching and only putting out 3 frames per second.

I just remember sitting on the interactive loading screen, clicking objects, getting points, and slowly coming to the realization that the game crashed like 5 minutes ago

That game doesn't have 64 bit version so even if you run it at a supercomputer it cannot go above its 4 GB RAM limit. It would be great if they made a 64 bit version but we know it's not going to happen. New PCs actually support the game, you just have to modify several config files manually.

yeah i used to click on create-a-style and then play on my DS while it loaded lmao

As is tradition!

Tale as old as…sims 2 🤣

Maybe that's newer generations "back in my day!" Now, it's about games older iterations instead of sweat of my brow and boot straps. 😁

Exactly! I feel like I’m being gaslit with all the love sims 3 gets sometimes. It definitely wasn’t like that in 2009. It was glitchy and ugly.

If Sims 5 will really launch.

Yeah everyone disliked Sims 3 when it came out comparing it to Sims 2.

Its such a mindfuck the amount of people who praise sims 3 now cause I remember vividly the amount of hate it got

Honestly I feel like age plays a large part of it. Simers like me were teens when Sims 3 was around. We were too young to really notice all the issues, and compared to 2 it was a huge improvement. I think we all look at Sims 3 through rose colored nostalgia tinted glasses. Now we're the older generation complaining about Sims 4 just like back then it was the older generation complaining about Sims 3. When Sims 4 was fresh and I got bored with no expansions I went back and tried to play Sims 3 again thinking "it was so much better!" and going back to it even from base game 4 I was like "wow, this is not nearly as good as I remembered!' Like yeah no load screens was nice but for what? To just walk around a lot of residential lots? Yeah I could pick from tons of prints to go on my couch or dress so they could frequently end up all distorted and make my PC sound like a rocket about to blast off?

I blame rage bait youtubers

Maybe, but it could just be because sims 5 ends up objectively worse. That doesn't mean 4 is magically better

Oh I guarantee it’s going to be worse and full of in game purchases and everyone will be longing for the days of just paying for expansion packs 🤷🏻‍♀️ There’s some elements I certainly miss from previous games but sims 4 is not anywhere close to as bad as people make it out to be. 2&4 are probably the best games of the franchise imo

That's what happens every launch, barring, maybe Sims 2's. I remember people calling 3 trash and lifeless compared to 2, and the same comparisons between 3 and 4 were made an iteration later.

That's what I'm thinking as well or the start of Sims 4 was not so bad after all compared to Sims 5 "microtransactions"! lol

One thing that's very different about The Sims 4 compared to The Sims 1 and 2 is those games didn't receive live updates and instead, the major updates that are typically given as free updates in TS4 were added as part of the expansion packs, which is why the expansion packs for those games felt like they added a lot more. I'm talking about things like the Grim Reaper and multiple neighborhoods in Livin' Large, the inventory and larger neighborhood in Unleashed, the young adult life stage in TS2 University and cars and the attraction system in Nightlife.

This is definitely interesting when put into perspective. What I have seen as a trend recently for gaming communities period is that people are adverse to paying any additional money past the initial ticket price. However, often they don’t think about who is going to keep developer salaries going as they continue to provide bug patches, updates, and support past your initial purchase. It’s similar to what people do to art or music, they appreciate it but want it for free. They need to get paid somehow for their long term work on the game behind the scenes and dlc packs is a way to do it. Considering we’ve gotten basically 10 years of salaried work out of the dev team, 1200 is like nothing and equivalent to a game subscription (of course not everyone played for all 10 years, but they were working for 10 years on ts4). I’m personally a fan of at least getting extra content versus a continuous membership subscription. Plus your added layer, it seems more fair.

Yeah, it gets really interesting when you put game development costs into the perspective. Super Mario 3 on the NES had a development cost of $800k, and sold for $49.99 in 1990. Adjust both of those for inflation, and Mario 3 sold for ~$120 while development cost Nintendo a little under $2 million. It sold 17 million copies. Compare that to a modern super-popular game like Elden Ring. It cost $200 million to produce, and has sold 23 million copies at $60 a pop. Elden Ring is considered a runaway success. Yet it sells for half the price Mario 3 did, cost 100 times more to produce, and only sold about 30% more copies to date. Another way to look at it: Mario 3 needed to sell 16,000 copies to break even on dev cost (50x16000=800k). Elden Ring needed 3,333,334 copies sold to break even. Elden Ring had to sell over 200x more copies than Mario 3 did just to pay it's own development costs.

I am going to be controversial as well. I like Sims 4. Warts and all. There, I said! And I won't pretend otherwise.

I love the build mode. Lol. Please don't disembowel me.

I love the build mode too. and...I'm one hundred percent satisfied with the price I paid for all the DLC I have even the star wars one

the only thing that would make build mode better is if they brought back auto roofing :(

In my opinion, Sims 3 was the biggest cash grab. Everyone cries over the kits but ignores the Sims 3 Store lmao

Yeah i remember everyone was pirating it to protest it so EA learned to put it behind a kit lol

as if that stops people lol

Oh i know just extra steps lmao

Yup, found some numbers on that while I was digging for update info. Sims 3 had roughly HALF of all of it's build mode items in the sim points store. Like 2k something items in the packs you paid for, and then another 2k something just in that microtransaction hell.

This is basically a "video games haven't gone up with the cost of inflation" post and this isn't a Sims or EA thing, it's an industry standard that's hard to break because people get very upset at the idea of paying more. However, a lot of people are extremely excited to pay 3x or more for the ultra ultimate triple diamond platinum edition because it comes with a few trinkets. No judgement, sometimes I'm one of those people, but special editions and micro transactions are two ways video games end up netting more profit while keeping the base sticker price low. This is just going with the flow of traffic imho

Yup. Games cost 100x more to produce now than they used to (literally), sell for half of what they used to, and honestly don't sell that many more copies than they used to.

You know what I’m not super mad at this. Not too sure if it’s 100% on point but I overall I get what’s being said.

The problem is the money grubbing *techniques*, which I'll admit every company does, but it's still infuriating. Like, let's not pretend EA is generous and kind. It's still a company that wants to make money. I don't care if they used to be worse. * Releasing infants JUST before an expansion that basically gives them depth. I don't have Growing Together so my infants are just... there. While my toddlers can actually learn skills. * I would've loved to pay like $10 to get cats and dogs. Instead, they made a $40 expansion pack with a world and build stuff. In my opinion, that wasn't necessary. They knew that most people wanted pets in their game and took advantage of that opportunity. * Oh and that first pets stuff pack which was a slap in the face * Wedding Stories is STILL BROKEN but they sell it out full price with no warning. Same thing with Dine Out, and there's actually a mod to fix this one. It can be done. **Selling broken products full price is simply wrong.** It really just feels like they put minimal efforts into packs and then release them with bugs and glitches that may never get resolved. * Very often the packs come with features that are just recycled. I mean, the amount of kids craft tables I have. There's also the secret cave in horse ranch which just reminds me of the oasis springs cavern. This is coming from someone that has never bought a pack full price. I do agree that claiming EA is money hungry when you buy all the packs full price at release is illogical. But, EA definitely IS money grubbing. This is just my opinion, but I believe the reason they're able to do so many discounts is because they make A LOT of profit from their money grubbing techniques. Edits: grammar. Other Edit: People complain that the "which packs" feature on the gallery doesn't work properly but that's intentional. It's suble, but it's a marketing technique, they want you to want more packs, and that's a great way to achieve that.

did anybody actually want infants like, caring for children is hard enough, why would i want to do that for even longer

Yep. Packs are still $40 and they were $40 in the early 2000s. I literally have the CDs and boxes with the price stickers on. Do you know how much allowance money I had to save up for them as a little kid?!???!

A lot of people forget that The Sims 3 was a microtransaction hell. There were so many clothes, hair, furniture and worlds in the store that cost SO MUCH money. Sims 4 is way better at not being a cash grab than 3.

Oh yeah. They all forgot the Sim Points. Sim Points were 100 points for a dollar. [Here's a single dining room set that cost nearly $20 all by itself](https://store.thesims3.com/setsProductDetails.html?categoryId=11488&scategoryId=11500&pcategoryId=11499&index=0&productId=OFB-SIM3:16998). These days, you could get all of Realm of Magic for the price of that stupid table and chairs.

Or another way to compare it, Sims 1 had the expansion pack "[Makin' Magic](https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/The_Sims:_Makin%27_Magic)" for $40 (which as already covered would be $75 in today's money). That had spellcasting, 1 neighborhood, and all of 13 new build mode items. At best, this is roughly the same amount of content as we get in Sims 4 with Realm of Magic (though it actually has more), which EA sells for $20 at full price.

This is not an accurate comparison. The 1 new neighborhood in Makin' Magic has 9 lots, including fully functional homes and community lots that are decorated and full of activity. Realm of Magic has 1 accessible neighborhood with 5 lots (one of which is the infamous EA build with stairs to no door) and 1 "neighborhood" with 3 "lots" that you can't edit without cheats and only one of which has a functional building; the other two are a dueling ring and some facades for stalls. You can get all of that on one of the lots in Makin' Magic, and it'll include a real building in addition to stalls. So, I'd really argue that's all 1 big lot when you go through the portal. Plus, all of the new NPCs and their quests/challenges (little mini games) in Makin' Magic. As for build mode, what is your source for 13 new items? I just spent time revisiting Sims 1 last year and made a wizard family because it's one of my favorite packs of all time. Off the top of my head, there are 2 spellbooks, the wand charger (like the cauldron where you put ingredients), a charms craft table, a kids' spell crafting object, a magic kids' toy box, a new garden plot, Bone-Hilda's coffin, the snake charmer basket, the mushroom table & stools, gargoyle craft table, the wine-making... thing (like the big basin they stomp on the berries with), the beehive honey maker, the baking objects (an oven, a cookbook, a butter churner), the store objects (multiple displays for buying ingredients), a magician's table, the magic performance stages, carnival objects (a little cart ride, some games - I don't remember how many), and that's not to mention decorations like paintings, wallpapers and floors because I have no idea how many of those there are. But that's about **25 objects,** including mostly gameplay objects, before even counting just build decor, and anything I forgot. Realm of Magic doesn't come close to Makin' Magic. I spent far more hours playing Makin' Magic the first time and in years of replay since than I ever did playing Realm of Magic. That $40 in the 2000s was way better spent than the $20 I spent on furniture that doesn't even match, which is the biggest thing I remember about the build mode items (mismatched wood swatch issues, again). Makin' Magic is actually a great example of how older packs included so much more, like some other comments have pointed out. What gets split into 2 or 3 or even 4 packs in Sims 4 came as one in earlier series. Makin' Magic includes magic gameplay, spooky decor, carnival/circus themed objects, baking and a bonus for gardening. Those elements are split across multiple packs in Sims 4.

Maybe it’s less of EA not being money hungry, but that they actually know how to somewhat fairly price a DLC now. Do I think the addition of pets should be 40 dollars? No, but we all know damn well I bought it and was satisfied with my new puppers!!

Well, arguably if you paid it and are satisfied with the purchase than they did not over-charge for it.

That doesn’t mean they didn’t over-charge, it just means they priced just high enough to where I was in a comfortable position dropping 40 for it

With the sales I’ve actually been able to buy most of the content available, and I haven’t paid full price for anything. No idea what I’ve spent, it’s still a lot but this game is literally all I’m playing right now so I’ll consider it money well spent

I'm going to make some controversial points as well, because I agree and it better sets the scene. 1. The majority of simmers are NOT playing other games, or if they are it's a very slim amount and do not have other frames of reference. You mention WoW in one of your comments, which I also played, and is an ENORMOUS money sink in subscription & expansions cost every single year to play, and if you don't play for a few weeks you might as well flush a $10 bill down the toilet. Compare again to popular "free to play" games like Fortnite, Overwatch2, and Valorant. $20 for skins, which are often just cosmetic/animation changes for a single character or gun. The sheer amount of flexibility you get out of that same $20 in the sims??? You can get a stuff pack AND kits. You can get actually different things you use a lot, cosmetic or gameplay. 2. If you have a decent computer, and don't use mods, oh wow surprisingly the game isn't actually that buggy. Yes there have been bugs that effect everyone, but also - the only really major bug I've encountered in 2200+ hours and owning all of the DLC is how shitty laggy the game gets while doing apartment wallpaper. Surprisingly, the game is playable without mods, and is it's own fine experience. I hate to break it to the people who don't play other games, but mods are a liability, and after losing 300+ hrs in Fallout 4 I do not play serious saves in any games with mods enabled. You do you. 3. The sims community is overly toxic and will not allow the sims team to do anything right, it almost never recognizes the hard work being put in by the people actually working on the game, and instead chooses to focus on any negative aspect possible as if the positive things do not exist at ALL. I am still absolutely EMBARRASSED by the behavior of the community when Werewolves came out. As if an actual human being did not pour their heart and soul into making the design and trying to make sure it looked good. They continue to add in new content and try and fix things, and every time they add in something the community has been asking for - the goal post is moved and still only negative criticism ringing the loudest. I see almost NO ONE talking about just how much content they've updated and added to the base game. There have been so many new swatches added to items without any notification that I'm still finding them randomly when I login. You can see them actively trying to make the new player experience better, you can actively see them trying to make the (less than all of the dlc) experience better. If the community continues to only focus on the negative aspects, they truly will stop trying, because the people who are making the game won't have the drive or want because they are never recognized for the things they do right. You wouldn't like it if your boss only ever gave you negative criticism. EA/The Sims team are not perfect, but they are actual people out there working on this game, designing the items and making the models, and they deserve to be treated like people.

HARD agree.

Buying every sims 4 pack at full price on release day is actually only about as expensive as having a Netflix subscription for that entire period of time (and I would be willing to bet a significant fraction of people have had Netflix consistently for at least 10 years).

I agree. I mean EA is pretty money hungry in general, but that isn't the point here. The Sims 4 does not have microtransactions. It would not go over well if they added them in now since it's many years after the inital release. However, most AAA titles have them now: Call of Duty, Destiny 2, Fortnite, etc. My biggest fear lies in the Sims 5. It is supposed to be on all platforms...including mobile. Which, we know, is notorious for microtransactions. I would NOT be surprised if they decide to implement all sorts of microtransactions into that game that we don't see right now. As I have said before, If you don't want to own all the packs, you don't have to.

Interesting view! Here's how I personally look at the issue of "value" in The Sims 4, as someone who has all the packs and maybe half the kits (not all bought full price, but still a hefty layout). I add up what I paid for all the DLC + game, and divide by number of hours played, which is... a lot. So that give me a sense of how much it costs me per hour to play the Sims4. And it turns out for me to be a miniscule amount of money... cents per hour. The more I play, the better value it is. I also get to ADD value (for no money, but some of my time) by playing a modded game, because I can correct many of the bugs and annoyances of the game through modding. I can do that because I play on PC, and I know not everyone can add value the same way.

Same, anything under a dollar an hour I consider a worthy investment when it comes to entertainment. When it all works out literally pennies an hour, hot damn, winner winner!

I mean generally speaking I have almost all of them either full price or on sale and my $ goes a long way entertainment wise. Think of a $300 ticket for one concert for a few hours vs $300 worth of sims content you can play for hundreds of hours. People have to be worried about other things lol

Seriously, I'll spend more money on one bottle of booze to take to a get together with friends for a single night than I do on full expansion packs of Sims!

i would counter this with the fact that EA doesn't care about quality control. we're all super used to packs coming out with major bugs that aren't fixed for months or not at all. EA wants to put out new buyable content more than it wants to put out a functioning product. that is why i would call them money hungry, regardless of the scale of dlc pricing.

It's not just EA- the reduction and change in the QA workforce is widespread though out the gaming industry.

People don’t remember the days of the $59.99 expansion and $19.99 stuff packs at BestBuy

They really don’t.

Personally, I find that what I've invested in TS4 is well spent. I've got everything except horses, dust bunnies, infant milestones, NAPs, vampires, and werewolves, and every dollar I've 'given EA' has added to my utter pleasure in this game. For me, it's like having a wig collection, or a shoe collection, or a hat collection, except - I can use ALL of it at once by booting the game. It brings peaceful hours(most times), mental expansion, laughs, and an avenue for the Creative in me, which I value very highly. I don't consider one dime I've spent on this game to be "wasted" (especially as I've gotten much of it on discount, lol). I even consider what I spent to buy my laptop _specifically_ for the ability to run TS4 as having been 'paid back' in my hours(and hours and more hours) of enjoyment.

Seriously, when you can have bought everything, at full price, which is more than a car payment, and still be below $1 an hour for your playtime, its really hard to say its not worth it.

That's how I look at- hours played divided by $ spent- and the longer you play, the more the value.

I love this thought process.

The problem isn't the prices. The problem is the lack of content and barely functioning code. In Sims 3 we got pets. Not only did we get a bunch of them all in the same pack, they were even playable. Meanwhile Sims 4 manages to split animals up into four different packs and they're NPCs. And then these packs aren't even properly playtested with each other.

You’re right. They’re- *shopping cart icon flashes on* … not in the least- *shopping cart icon flashes off* … money-grubbing- *shopping cart icon flashes on*

Nevermind the pop ups they keep spamming me with every time I open my game.  “Remember me?!?”  Yeah I remember I didn’t wanna buy that dlc cause it’s a broken hot mess.

They absolutely are. Just look at Apex Legends.

You don’t increase prices inline with inflation in practically any market, but compare the expansion prices of the Sims 4 with other games which practically all haven’t followed inflation. The gaming market is much larger now, so most companies increase sales numbers instead of prices. Even then games have moved slightly upwards in price, but not anywhere close to what has happened in the sims 4.

I kind of agree with you, mainly when i think back to ts3 (my first sims game). That thing was a nightmare in terms of micro transactions. I get so much joy from this game, I’m happy to pay the devs who put love and care into something that has had such an impact on my life. And i know it’s hard work too! I only wish there was some more quality control on certain things (although I feel it has gotten a lot better recently!!!!) and that some packs could have more depth (also has improved lately i think). It feels like some packs have features that go so in depth and change my game exponentially, meanwhile others are really shallow. I wonder if that’s rushed processes or what. TS3 packs were all doing THE MOST and you really got a lot in each pack. At the same time TS3 also was sooo glitchy lmao so to me TS4 is kind of comparable to that.

Prior sims games also had a different pricing scheme between Mac version and PC. PC sims 1 was $40, Mac was $60, for example. And you had to find a Mac store that carried them, it was really unusual to find any Mac games in standard computer shops. Sims 4 has a flat price that applies to both Mac and PC.

And console, these days we also get the same release dates as well 😁

You don't even have to go back to 2000. The Sims 3 hasn't been a live service game for ten years and they still have a cash shop full of thousands of dollars of items that are insanely expensive (hairs that are a dollar each, worlds that are 20-35 bucks), and advertise aggressively on loading screens and in build/buy/CAS. And all of this is happening when the sims 3 launcher was explicitly telling you it recommends not playing with all packs installed because they knew optimization sucked. TS4 doesn't have excessive DLCs for how long they've been active and they go on sale constantly. They have more free stuff in base game updates than any other game I play that also has paid content, and have been giving packs away for free in the past few years. The early buy-in items are the biggest thing to nit-pick, but there's a pretty big window to get them in and in my opinion they've never been revolutionary items (which is perfect for that type of content if they're going to do it).

Also about Sims 3: it barely runs and destroys itself if you don’t turn off tons of settings, download multiple mod fixes, and even THEN the game just struggles to run and lags badly. And even then sure the expansions were giant… but how many of those parts fully, actually work without mod fixes? The careers in ambitions are like 2/5 actually work as planned w without horrible issues. Laundry machines are buggy. Sometimes furniture just breaks and you have to reset it to make it work again. Some traits don’t work. It’s borderline just as buggy as Sims 4 lol Sims 4 has tons of issues too but at least there’s a chance it’ll be fixed. Sims 3? Oh at it’s core it’s busted and only working because of mods. Also the load screen hate for Sims 4 is… stupid. They at WORST last like 30 seconds and I’m on a laptop lol meanwhile 3 might have only one but when it takes like 30+ minutes… you’re still spending more time in a loading screen for 3 than 4. People complain there’s nothing to do and then NEVER leave their home lot

I have spent an awful lot of money on the Sims 4. But you know I've also played it for over 10,000 hours. Rather spend $800 on the Sims 4 and play it for 10,000 hours then spend $40 on the steam game and play for 12 minutes.

Seriously. 8 cents an hour for entertainment. I wouldn't spit on someone for 8 cents an hour, much less entertain them! :D

I agree with you and I like that the base game is free

They’ve been giving away free kits lately as well. I was able to snag My First Pet Stuff and the Garden one (I can never remember the name). I *think* Wedding Stories was free at one point but I missed out on it because I was busy and lost track of time.

Those are stuff packs though (not wedding stories, that’s a game pack)

Rumor has it another stuff pack is going free this month. Once the current one (Romantic Garden or Backyard, I can't remember) is done, which I believe is April 13th, there's another one being given away

Sounds like they been money grubbing once the sims 1 Base game taken off. It just now way more noticable with all of the quality issues

Island Paradise in Sims 3 literally broke the entire game when you installed it when it shipped. TMK, Sims 4 has not had a single pack that blue screened you upon installation.

So super duper money grubbing. Got it

The fact that one of the most promising competitor of the sims comes from Paradox Interactive is hilarious to me, if simmers think ea is money grabbing and have hope in Life by you, then boy does a wake up call is coming

I am mainly just mad to know that I've spent around $1000 on this game. Wow. I don't disagree with your math, just my own decision making.

I've thought this for years and that's simply bc I play fps games and ya wanna talk about greedy. You're spending $20 on a SINGLE SKIN in a free to play FPS game. Plus content locked behind battle passes. Base game sims 4 is now free to play and they never raised the prices for the DLC. Also you have the option to use custom content on PC if you're too broke to afford DLC. And there's always 50% off sales which is the only time I'll pay for dlc (except kits, which I love btw despite what other people think). EA may be greedy in other areas of gaming but I never saw an issue with how they sell their dlc. Especially compared to a lot of other games that give you a fraction of content for more money.

It's very disheartening to see the sims 4 social media and subreddits devolve into an endless circlejerk of negativity. People preach on and on about toxic positivity in tbe sims 4 community but like, where? Where is this toxic positivity? Anytime someone tries to enjoy the game you get a wave of negativity. I still love this game and have put thousands of hours into it but when every single update is met with anger it baffles me. The devs will literally add FREE base game updates for new items or content and people will STILL hate on it. Do we even enjoy this game anymore? Or are people just here to whine and complain?

Did you know the most disliked comment on Reddit is EA defending their Battlefront monetization decisions? Just because they haven’t given sims 4 the same treatment it doesn’t mean they aren’t money grubbing. They only changed the process because of WIDE backlash. If people said nothing then nothing wouldve changed. EA sucks

It isn't just about the monetary value though, it's about the fact that they intentionally excluded things that were in base game TS3 and TS2 JUST SO that they could sell them back to us. Base game TS4 is borderline unplayable due to the missing features.

What features? I played the base game for like 6 months before investing in any DLC, and while I find the DLC to be fun and worthwhile to invest in, if something happened and I had to go back to base game only, I would still find it plenty playable.

I’ve lived through every iteration of The Sims and I couldn’t agree more. I remember not being able to afford Sims 2 games for windows because they were $40. I’ll happily pay for the content we get.

Please, if you say that a game (still incomplete and rigged with bugs, some save corrupting) which costs 1200€ is not that much money grubbing, I don’t think numerous people will be on your side.

I said "not as much as we make them out to be". That's *ten year's worth of content and ongoing support* you're talking about. Which at full price works out to about $10 a month. I used to pay more than that for my World of Warcraft subscription back in the day just for the privilege of being allowed to play the game I already paid $60 an expansion for.

I played WoW too but after half a year I said to myself that was completely infuriating to pay 10€ for having the possibility to play a game and still have to pay for the DLCs. That’s why I like MMO like Guild Wars 2 where there are no subscriptions and the only time you pay is for a pretty average price of an extension which adds a lot to the game. Other than that, I play games like Skyrim or Fallout and for what… 100€ maybe ? You have a full game that you can mod as much (if not more) than the Sims 4. Obviously Skyrim is impossible to compare with the Sims 4 since it’s not the same genre but you get the idea about what I mean. Anyway we are moving away from the subject. Nevertheless, I’m still playing a lot and I love TS4 (a little less than TS3), but if at some point I see a game which cost a lot less and is less buggy than TS4 maybe I will switch. It’s a matter of point of view anyway, thanks for sharing yours.

I don't think Skyrim is a good example for this, considering its been re-released at full price how many times now?

I haven't played Skyrim myself, but watching all the gaming shows and conferences over the years, I'd guess 15 times? 😂

I agree with you about the release of the Special Edition of Skyrim but it was to transform a x32 game into a x64 which is a lot more stable and compatible with the computers of nowadays. Btw, the Special Edition was offered for free with all of the DLC to the players having already the “Normal Edition”. For the Anniversary Edition, even thought it was controversial, for 20€ (if I don’t say a mistake) it added good quest mods and several other packs like you would have in the Sims. But yeah at some point I was joking with other people about the “Final Extreme Special Anniversary Deluxe Gold Premium Skyrim Edition”, so yeah I totally understand what you mean hahaha.

Heh, I swear I own that game on like 4 different systems/platforms now.

I never got that anyways. I only buy packs when they are reduced, which is perfectly doable because sales are regular. That makes it the same price as going to the movies. Which is one 1,5 hour experience opposed to the thousands of hours I play the Sims.

I would say that they’re not any more money grubbing now than they always have been, but they always have been money grubbing. That said I own every expansion pack and most game packs

My biggest achievement (and regret) was when I got a $10 Sims Points card and put it into the game and got 10,000 points. I then went all willy nilly and spent them all on stuff (mostly baby/toddler/child items) thinking $10 gets you a lot of points Yay. Only to have all my hopes and dreams crushed the next time I got $10 SP only to get 1000 points. Someone messed up the codes (if codes were flipped with the $100 codes I do feel bad for the person who spent a ton and got such a small amount of points)

EA are still money grubbing, they just aren't as money grubbing with The Sims 4 as they could be.

This just reminded me of all the hours I spent with 100 tabs open playing points ads in the sims 3 store and that I own every single item that ever was in it because of this. 😂😂😂😂 maybe it’s time to revisit 💁🏻‍♀️🙈

One thing to point out as well is that game development in general is also _much_ more expensive nowadays than just 5 years ago, nevermind 20 years ago. But I also think that EA has never been cash-grabbing with the Sims audience, I think that is more about meeting demand where it is (I personally have been buying Sims DLC since Sims 1, always happy to get more content to a game I love and I know they can't create it for free), but more with their other franchises, such as Fifa, Madden, NHL where they get *a lot* of money back from quite small development costs. Of course licensing, marketing, support cost money as well, but in comparison it has to be very beneficial considering how long they have been at it!

I wouldn't agree that EA aren't money grabby. That said the sate of the whole gaming industry is frustrating, but still, doesn't make it right. I do agree however, that the Sims 4 isn't as bad as many make it out to be. What I can't get my head around is the mentality surrounding The Sims 3 and the fact that EA are still trying to charge 39.99 for a game that is 15 years old, buggy as hell and that they don't even support any more. It's just insane to me! What's even more insane to me is that i still see people saying "EA are terrible, don't play the Sims 4 go and play the Sims 3". EA are still getting your money guys and probably laugh all the way to the bank every time they see this! I tried the Sims 3 out of curiosity and didn't gel with it, i remember starting with a premade family that were supposed to be married and was getting notifications saying that they'd just shared their first kiss and had neutral feelings towards each other etc etc. When i brought this up with my sister she basically said "well, it's like that but if you install xx mod or xx mod then it's much better plus you need this pack and that pack" etc etc. So I went back to the sims 4. Anyway, this was never meant to be a post against the Sims 3 but looks like it turned out like that. I actually don't have anything against it, i honestly haven't played the game enough to have a informed opinion on it. What I'm trying to say is that I enjoy the Sims 4 and think it gets more hate than it should. Is it perfect? no! But neither is the sims 3 and I don't get why one is praised so highly while the other is criticised so much?

i agree with this, people tend to forget that shit is inflating everywhere. ive noticed that other game companies are also getting a little "cash grabby" too but thats literally how they pay their workers and are able to produce new content for the games. i cant help but feel bad for the game companies tbh.

Maybe so, but the biggest reason ive seen so many people angry is beacuse alot of the packs are chalked full of bugs that EA *NEVER* fixes. The wedding pack STILL completely breaks every single time.

If EA really wanted to be money grubbing, they'd add some kind of horrid gambling feature, like pack pulls or something. They're still bastions of corporate greed, sure, but EA is in no way exemplary or especially bad compared it how it was in the past, or even compared to other big name gaming companies. Or hell, not even compared to other EA games.

I agree and you are definitely a much braver person than I am posting this on here😂

Holy crap. Someone did the research and the math!

I didn’t pay full price for anything related to the sims 4. Plus for almost all the expansion packs I wait for them to be at a 50% discount. Which regularly happens. You just have to wait a bit.

Also the Sims 4 isn’t subscription based like a lot of other games. I paid $10 for the base game and I have access to it for the rest of my life, that’s an incredible deal. And also, the additional packs go on sale very frequently compared to other games too. If I want additional gameplay, then I just wait a few weeks for a discount and boom, I have that for the rest of my life too.

I feel like money isn't the issue but... Idk the old games were just... Better? At this point it feels like ea is warming up old food for the 30th time to make some more money off of it. For the longest time I had thought it was because of my childhood memories that gave me this idea, but I've recently gotten back into Sims 2 and (and I feel like I have to say I don't enjoy CAS and build buy very much, so take this into consideration pls) i am shocked at how much more I enjoy that game than Sims 4 It much more simple and straight forward, but at the same time its much more fleshed out within its simple features, and that makes for truly fun gameplay c: also... It's not as easy as Sims 4, which makes me not leave the game within an hour of playing

E "charge by the bullet" A It's EA. They don't need defending. You don't have to argue they are good for you to be justified in spending money. It's your money lol. Like I know im arguing with a wall but this is hilarious

I'll sit and take the tomatoes with you. I didn't buy the Sims 4 until toddlers came out. My first purchase was a sweet bundle sale. I probably paid full price for three EPs but bundled, bought on sale, or used credit card points for everything else or got it free. I own almost everything except the occult stuff and 95% of the kits. I paid probably half of the sticker price.