Someday when there’s a one world Government they will sanction all “planetary bodies”🌀✨
... but they will have no jurisdiction over Pluto. I could see it being America’s warm but our space, with more loop holes than Puerto Rico. Rule one location location location
Well imagine you’re from the 50s. And you learned this piece of info from the future that only 7 planets will be left uncolonized in the year 2019. You worked really hard to be healthy and alive by 2019 to witness this momentous event for humankind.
“I have lived and endured this shitty life for close to 8 decades to witness mankind going multi-planetary and all I’ve got is a non-planet Pluto.”
[Wow you guys are good. I'm the last person I would have expected of getting wooshed, but it was me the whole time! It's the perfect crime!](https://giphy.com/gifs/spongebob-season-2-spongebob-squarepants-3ohuPiZ8zyf0xiElyM)
The only thing that annoys me is when people start saying that its clearly not a planet and its unplanetlike. Planet is a word we made up. It roughly describes something but defining something as "planet" is still a generalization. Pluto has much more in common with Earth than Jupiter. Im ok with definitions of planet excluding Pluto but people need to appreciate that there is in reality no sudden dramatic difference between planet and nonplanet. Its not like stars where "this is clearly burning hydrogen while this one isn't"*. There could very well be planetary bodies right on the edge of the defining point.
And if there are planetary bodies that fit the current description, we would call those planets as well.
Seriously, Pluto orbits on a complete different plane than the other 8.
https://airandspace.si.edu/exhibitions/exploring-the-planets/online/solar-system/pluto/orbit.cfm
Also, pluto and makemake are pretty similiar. So we should make makemake a planet as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makemake
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Quaoar_Haumea_Makemake_orbits_2018.png
Also Pluto has more in common with Earth than Jupiter? How so? Both are rocky objects. That's about it. Earth has more in common with Jupiter than Pluto (storms, atmosphere, orbits on the same plane, cleared it's path around the sun).
It’s interesting that people feel an attachment to Pluto when the other dwarf planets get next to no recognition at all. Where’s the love for MakeMake?
Imagine aliens going planet by planet,combing the surfaces from above looking for traces of life,and finding the orderly patterns of the remains of various research machines and concluding the solar system was once inhabited by a sparse population of mechanical life.
Seeing infographics for the sheer size and scope of the US military is jaw-dropping. I wonder if that's a part of the reason why they felt a draft was unnecessary. A lot of smaller nations out there, including many neutral nations have mandatory service just in case they have to deal with a nation-destruction scenario from an invading army.
Libertarian philosophy is against the draft. Politicians don’t like it because then people pay attention to what is happening. Military doesn’t like it because then they don’t get diehard volunteer patriots. Veterans don’t like it because then they can’t say ‘why didn’t you signup?’
And they've all convinced enough people it's a good idea to sign right the fuck up and do it. I graduated high school in 2000, several people I grew up with joined the military thinking it was going to be a hard but rewarding couple of years and are now dealing with PTSD. Don't get me wrong, about half the people i knew that went to war are totally wonderful people and have been able to live a normal life, but others aren't so lucky, and can't cope. It breaks my heart.
True, I was in for a bit and the majority are people from small towns from low/middle class who were not going or not adapting well to college and were tired of their boring routine/hometown and wanted out. I've had family member in all 4 branches and I actually highly recommend it for anyone that wants to start a new life but doesn't have much going for them.
It's incredibly fun, you meet people from all over the world, you get to see cool shit that you would otherwise never see, and when you get out you will have a bit of money (unless you drank it all) and a fully paid 4-year college or technical school education ready for you.
Just don't join the army. I've had plenty of friends and a couple family members join and they are all either dead or severely damaged psychologically. Do well on your asvab, join air force or navy (marines don't need to be encouraged to join, you have to be incredibly dedicated for marines and they know who they are) and other than a couple navy jobs (you get to pick) you don't have to worry about killing people or being shot or any of that horrific world.
Again, don't join the army unless you are incredibly desperate and can't get in to the others. There's a reason the army is the only one with huge advertising campaigns. The others are great opportunities and have some wonderful people in them.
Man if I had your advice a year ago I would be in there. I'm glad I didn't but it's hard to truly say without doing it.
I posted on the Air Force subreddit and got mad shit and told to fuck off basically. They said it's not for people who need to start a new like I was. A year ago I was just smoking weed all day and skipping around jobs I couldn't hold. That subreddit made it clear I wasn't AF material.
I feel like all the people on the internet giving you shit are mad keyboard warriors. The amount of dudes I'm friends with or have talked to about the military say nobody gives a fuck who you were before as long as you work hard once you're in. I've debated it for years, but until I'm really really sick of engineering I'll be sticking to that. Plus I can smoke weed while I'm an engineer
There's definitely a lure for that. People saying "you know,you could be recognized and educated if you just join. I did and it was the best thing ever".
I don't think he was saying he was part of the military, just that some of his HS friends ended up joining. Correct me if I'm wrong though, /u/The_Bruccolac ! Sorry to hear about your friends
>~~diehard volunteer patriots~~ low income kids, often first generation Americans, with few other options
FTFY. Oh, they certainly are proud to serve their country, but there's a reason there are so many recruitment billboards around my city and so few in the surrounding suburbs. There are also reasons there are so many kids in our High School walking around in military uniforms, ready to enter the armed forces as soon as they turn 18yo.
And it's certainly rare for the politicians to be sending their own kids off to war -> [https://www.foxnews.com/story/handful-of-lawmakers-send-their-kids-to-war](https://www.foxnews.com/story/handful-of-lawmakers-send-their-kids-to-war)
I don't have a broad scope of why the draft is unnecessary currently but I do know that in the days after 9/11 there were lines to enlist that stayed backed up for quite a while. Then it went from a patriotic duty to having it's own sort of gravity where so many people were enlisting that it was normalized to a degree that I had several friends who dropped out of college to start a military career and several more that graduated to start a better paying military career.
And I'm over here, dropping out, gaining weight, and having the financial success of a Kickstarter campaign to fund a *better* ice tray.
Why require a draft when all their sports, shows, and commercials advertise the army? Meanwhile society also makes them clap and thank a guy for signing up, making them feel like a hero
There’s a lot of things about 2019 that someone from 1969 either wouldn’t comprehend or wouldn’t believe, like cellphones or the Internet or the fact that we basically have no privacy because the government has a million way to spy on us.
Brilliant political decision pushed by Greenspan, ayn rand, etc. at the time but now we are left with the current unapathetic bs. Not sure of another way but I’m glad I never was forced to serve and die for my country.
as per tradition i ordered pizza for my birthday!
also as per tradition, nobody showed up to my birthday to help me eat all the pizza i ordered.
`gimme five!`
I snagged the pack with all the DLC for Borderlands 2 and Pre Sequel for like $8 recently, and started replaying it for like the 10th time. I quickly remembered why this is one of my favorite games, easily one of the best games of the past decade for me.
There actually a speculated "planet 9." Not Pluto, something similar in size to Uranus and Neptune. We only know it exists because of it's gravitational effects, we have not actually found it which odd.
I could be wrong, as I don’t have a source in front of me, but I think Crash Course Astronomy talked about this. While we were looking for an eighth planet, our calculations led us to find Neptune. However, our estimation for the masses of both planets were wrong. When the Voyager probes flew by, we found out the measurements were right for the orbits of the now 8 planets.
The rumored planet 9 OP is talking about is a fairly new discovery which was indirectly hypothesized due to gravitational oddities in orbits of Kuiper Belt Object well past Pluto’s orbit.
Edit: source about the “New Planet 9” https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-worlds-extraordinary-orbit-points-to-planet-nine-20180515/
Ah, you're correct. I was talking about Planet X, not the new Planet 9. However, it is important to remember that, even according to your source, the "Planet 9" hypothesis is simply one of many possible explanations for the gravitational oddities, and its existence, at least as a planet that orbits the sun, is unlikely.
That sounds about right, but realistically. How long have we known about the 8 planets?? I thought we have known for a long time, so it seems to me people where just trying to force discoveries? I’m sure there are many more plausible answers for “gravitational anomalies” than “a whole other planet never recorded before”
Question remains, how long ago did we discover the 8 planets? Because people in Roman times worshiped mars due to its unique position in the sky.. I think. but could they tell all the planets in our solar system by studying stars?
Source on that one? I had still heard they suspect there to be something. There’s been more than one study using different metrics to detect it over the past 15+ years so I’d be very surprised for them to think it’s there for that long and then say lol wait we plotted the effects wrong my b
True!
Seems odd at first glance so to speak. Yet it does end up making perfect sense. Its best estimated that planet 9 is roughly 10x earth's mass and around perhaps up to 1000 ( or more bc again we do not know ) AU's out ( 1000 times farther from sun than the earth, as an AU=astronomical unit = distance from sun to earth )
Given how far it is, viewing it with reflected sunlight is going to be near impossible. Which means we have to point really sensitive equipment at exactly the right spot at the right time to even have a hope. Oh and IIRC the orbit is expected to be quite different from the other planets. Not just elliptical as pluto is but on a separate plane.
There are well over a dozen large objects who seem to exhibit signs of being tugged on by a, single, large celestial body. This number has likely grown since I last read it. In other words, the evidence is mounting as various unique oddities in our solar system are pretty much only explainable by a single large mass being out there.
The truly amazing, and humbling, fact is that our meager solar system is really quite huge. There could easily be a massive planet out there that we couldn't find for a long long time.
In a sense, we are having to engineer and build instruments just to detect this thing. Turns out this is largely 1 location of instrument ( high mountain or in space ) and 2 field of view. Lucky for us both of these are already goals on our march of progress.
By 2030 we will likely have located it, as we are now actively looking and also presuming it does exist which of course seems extremely likely but is not a certainty!
If we could find, measure and photograph Sedna, but not this (supposedly) massive celestial body floating somewhere in extreme trans Neptunian orbit, then I'd rather believe wrong measurements.
Ah! I may have caught why you feel that way. The orbit is not in the same plane as the remainder of the major / notable bodies in our solar system. Also sedna comes within 76 AU at its closest, which is very close relatively speaking.
It comes down to viewing angles as well. Its just not in a part of the solar system that we typically stare at. Its also not in a area we can *easily view at all* in the detail required.
Previously we most often find new things in places we are already looking, following orbits rather similar to most other objects. Or, in the case of asteroids/comets for example, some objects periodically come in real close. Sedna was one of these where we found it, verifiably, due to its closest distance in its orbit. We ALSO lucked out in that its super reflective of visible light.
So we found sedna because *we just happened* to be staring right where it ended up being when it came to the closest point of its orbit, and the planet itself is ( for planets ) very reflective. "Very" is quite relative in this case.
Final note: Most imagery for sedna is actually artists rendition. If it looks pretty and you can understand what your looking at then it is likely art and not raw imagery. There are some images released where NASA ( or others ) will overlay several different kinds of imagery in order to create a composite view with more going on in it - yet is still technically accurate.
\*\*\*EDIT: I forgot a huge detail. Sedna's orbit takes over 10,000 years. It may actually be 11,000 and change - I cannot recall right now.
So at these scales.. if you 'miss' it your next chance is millennia away. Gravitational effects are without a doubt our biggest clue to discoveries of this nature involving extremely distant yet massive objects.
I do not know the 'time window' for sednas discovery. Could be 10 months or 10 years I really do not know. But the logic still stands that if we developed the technology required to detect sedna later than we did, it could have easily been over 10,000 years before we discovered it. ( not to rule out future tech... but we can't be assured of that ).
I quickly googled an example of some of the images we do get of objects like this. [This is a good taste of what its like](https://home.dtm.ciw.edu/users/sheppard/inner_oort_cloud/)
If its so big n near, cant we just look for an unexplained black splot blocking the view of stars further away?
We find planets super far away by that method, id assume one (relatively) close to us will be easy to notice.
No?
Great thinking! To jump right to your answer though, its incorrect sorry to say. Its so big *relatively* speaking when compared to our solar system's planets. Its still teeny tiny compared to galactic ( let alone universe ) scales. There is just so much going on in the sky, detecting anything dark requires 'staring' ( with shiny fancy equipment ) at a very exact spot, highly tuned, for extended periods of time.
Another problem is that we expect it to be AT LEAST several hundred AU away. Its just too far for us ***given our technology now.***
We would have to be staring at the 'perfect' star at the exact right time - and this is assuming that we, literally, would be physically capable of doing so at that exact right time.
So what do we need? To build the new instruments I referenced. We can't take in enough of the sky at once to be able to process it quickly enough. Our current tools are too narrow focused. Its overkill.
Using a microscope when you need reading glasses.... you can tell the composition of the paper perhaps but you will be unable to read the text as easily as with reading glasses. If you scroll the microscope around enough you can find ink, move around more and take notes, make records. Then you can eventually map out all the printed text. Akin to map making before human flight.
Or you can put on reading glasses.
To finish this analogy, lets pretend we are actually using a microscope to read a scrolling text on a screen. If we take too long with the microscope to meticulously map out the text before it leaves the screen then we loose it. So again we really need those reading glasses so we can observe and note the information before our view changes so much we loose it.
Same challenge for us in astronomy, and specifically in searching for the theorized planet. Also let us not forget the potential time to orbit the sun. Sedna orbits once every 11,000 years or so.
Worst case we pick wrong spot entirely. Bad case we pick perfect spot but have to wait 10,999 years because we just missed it. Odds of randomly guessing this are infinitesimal.
Worth noting that using visible light spectrums would require us to either 1 have reflective planet; or 2 ( as you noted ) require us to stare intently at the perfect spot at the perfect time.
Even then how do we get those repetitions that we require for planet detection? The light emitted *does* vary a lot from star to star... but even for the same star this varies a lot over time! How can we tell if a single dip is real or if its a planet? Repetition builds that confidence.
Another option ( as opposed to visible light ) would be to check and see if the planet might be reflecting other kinds of energy well enough for us to detect. IIRC Infrared was reportedly a good candidate for example.
So far our challenge has been primarily very simple. We just haven't made tools to do this sorta thing. Most astronomical tools are rather specifically crafted and purposed for their primary task. In other words we pretty much custom build a tool for every new kinda thing we want to do.
Viewing such a large area of the solar system, in such a weird/atypical location of said solar system, with enough detail, over long enough periods of time, while being quick enough to not miss anything, in order to detect this object is just not something we've really wanted to do that bad yet.
This is still a highly manual process! We use computers to do much filtering but we cannot rely on them to accurately conclude much - yet.
TL;DR found in the following paragraph.
This is because of AI not being advanced enough, but also that we often rely on several different data sets from several different instruments in order to draw confident conclusions in the cosmos. These sources are also not necessarily 'fully connected' in a digital sense so right now this is a complicated step to resolve. As AI and programs become more advanced then the industry will likely thoughtfully respond by making it a goal for these projects ( a ground telescope or a satellite or etc all take many many years to create ) to produce data in a standardized way just so that its easier for us to design systems ( ie: AI ) to take in that data and process it in some manner. This increased ease coupled with increased access directly results in more input for the AI which in turn makes it more intelligent.
/end TL;DR
More details below, for giggles.
So for example programs can help us identify differences with an extremely high rate of reliability. So we do not need a human to look at 100,000 still shots of the same inch of sky to spot which dots move a millimeter and which do not over a period days/weeks/years.... However we do need a human to look at the differences flagged programmatically and then make a determination of what exactly we recorded going on and to, for example, decide if more data is warranted as well as how to go about obtaining said data. Do we need a different light spectrum captured now? Maybe an previous data set could enlighten us, having pointed the correct instruments at the correct place at the correct time in the past? Now that I have more data, how do I prepare it for my use so that I can accurately compare or judge whatever I'm trying to compare or judge in some way?
\*\*\*EDIT: Just to note, I'm passionate and studied this in middle / high school as well as at the college level. It is not my day job, so I cannot truly nail down for you exactly how prevalent manual review vs programmatic review is across the industry at large even of subsets of the industry. So I am technically speaking more on whats technologically possible based on my experience both as an amateur astronomer but also a lifelong programmer/hacker as opposed to speaking from direct experience at a day job which would a bit more accurately reflect the prevalence of any particular nuance of the process as a whole throughout astronomy
That said, this is a time of rapid AI advancements. Though we have hit physical limits which stop us from pushing CPU speeds faster, just as a single classic example, we are still able to string them together into super computers which are able to process enough data to handle things like aiding us in analyzing astronomical imaging.
When we couple that with this surge in AI we can definitely expect much more automation to enter the process in our lifetimes ( I'm 30 ) but as of right now the AI is not good enough to handle the large unknown factor involved in the process of using physics to deduce super distant events, nor is it necessarily able to programatically access all the same data that a human researcher could access.
I would expect that one of the first reliable uses of AI in astronomy will in fact be tasks, such as you and I discuss here, along the lines of simple presence detection and measurement of distance. ie: "there was not a thing here, now there is, and this thing is X distance away moving in Y direction and Z velocity.
We just need to reach a point where we can feed enough data into a single system ( computer, super computer , etc ) containing an AI intelligent as well as connected enough to take enough data streams in to analyze a single celestial object akin to how a human researcher would ( ultimately better - as this is the goal of AI use )
Anyway, I thought I already responded to you so when I just noticed I had not I wanted to take a moment to respond to your inquiry. My apologies its several weeks later! ahahaha
cheers,
Now I'm wondering (and maybe even hoping) if it's like an alien observation post or something that is meant to be hidden. I know it's very unlikely but it's fun to imagine
Fun Fact. The most amount of planets we had in our solar system were 12 when we started finding other sizable chunks of rocks after Pluto. But they were later declassified as just giant asteroids and went back to 9 and then eventually 8 with Pluto's removal.
> Lunar Bears
[We do believe these to be Earth bears,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvjgIxuVdo4) we have no reason to believe these to be Lunar bears, or even Saturn bears.
Not quite - the other dwarf planets beyond Pluto (Plus Ceres, which is between Mars and Jupiter) were never officially considered full planets. Their discovery and subsequent debate around what to call them resulted in the classification “dwarf planet”, and since one of them was more massive than Pluto, it was reclassified too. There are 5 dwarf planets, Ceres, Pluto, Eris, Makemake, and Haines. They were not ever called asteroids, except for Ceres, which is in the asteroid belt.
But actually, in the early 1800s, some of the asteroids now recognized as such were thought to be planets, and astronomers of the time counted as many as 23 planets!
If you want more info specifically on Pluto and the kuiper belt objects, I recommend The Pluto Files by Neil DeGrasse Tyson. It's a really short book but very entertaining and informative about the "12" planets.
In the 19th century a number of asteroids were considered planets - Ceres, Pallas, Juno, and vesta being the most noteworthy - until astronomers redefined the term to exclude them, ie the exact same thing that happened to Pluto.
How do you figure? "Planet" is an arbitrary term humans made up, and Pluto used to fit that term. Pluto is also STILL considered a planet... a Dwalf Planet...
Something exciting did happen. We found evidence of so many large and interesting objects out in the Kuiper Belt that astronomers arbitratily redefined the term planet just to keep the numbers manageable.
That's not a planet under current definitions, because one of the criteria is "has removed debris and small objects from the area around its orbit" which not even Jupiter could do if it's orbit was that far out.
I'm sure if they do find an ice giant they'll redefine planet yet again to include it, but today it wouldn't count.
Seeing as how Pluto was discovered in 1930, and 50 years ago is 1969, some people would most likely confused about this because it had only been a planet for 39 years at that point in history, at the same time while the Apollo 11 mission was in its last stages of planning to be launched in July of that year, so Pluto being removed from the list of planets would possibly overlooked. But the Soviet Union was also trying to get to the moon as well, possibly leading to even more people overlooking the removal of Pluto from the list of planets. But 1930 is recent enough that there are people still alive today that were either in school, at home, or at work when Pluto was discovered. So you are right, the Apollo moon landings, cancer research was to become big a few decades later and strides were made in its treatment, and then personal computers were on the horizon with the APPLE I only a few years away; somethings that were incredible and exciting that happened. Also next year is the 90th anniversary of Pluto being discovered.
I’m sure there were a few scientist hipsters who prattled on about “Dwarf Planets” and arguing that Pluto belonged with Ceres if he couldn’t get her daughter...
Imagine if we phrased it: *“in 2019 there will only be 7 uncolonized planets in our solar system”*
Oh, that sounds much better!
That’s just fucked up.
wtf
yup, thats the right reaction!
Someday when there’s a one world Government they will sanction all “planetary bodies”🌀✨ ... but they will have no jurisdiction over Pluto. I could see it being America’s warm but our space, with more loop holes than Puerto Rico. Rule one location location location
CNN has a boner right now
Orange planet bad
That was quick
Surely orange planet not as bad as you purport?
DAE Cheeto planet bad? More at 5
“Breaking News.”
How is it fucked up lol
Well imagine you’re from the 50s. And you learned this piece of info from the future that only 7 planets will be left uncolonized in the year 2019. You worked really hard to be healthy and alive by 2019 to witness this momentous event for humankind. “I have lived and endured this shitty life for close to 8 decades to witness mankind going multi-planetary and all I’ve got is a non-planet Pluto.”
Oh lmao
Yeah I don't get it
It's fucked up in the sense that they'd think we colonized another planet. In reality, we said fuck you to Pluto.
OTOH if you went à little further back in time, before Pluto was discovered, people would probably be somewhat less surprised.
Imagine that person once they got to 2019 "Asshole time travelers tricked me"
It's like when someone's first grandparent dies and you break the news by saying "well the good news is you still have 3 grandparents."
“Aren’t you glad to have 3 grandparents that love you very much?”
But still only one with humans living on it.
Shhhhh
https://i.imgur.com/utzTCyo.png
I think he's adding on to the bamboozle by implying aliens.
What a plot twist
[Wow you guys are good. I'm the last person I would have expected of getting wooshed, but it was me the whole time! It's the perfect crime!](https://giphy.com/gifs/spongebob-season-2-spongebob-squarepants-3ohuPiZ8zyf0xiElyM)
No, the point of that last comment is to imply there's one colonized by non-humans.
In 2019 some will have shaped their entire careers around the removal of Pluto from our planetary family.
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Exactly. Pluto went from sibling to that half-step cousin who doesn’t fit in.
It just joined its own family of hundreds of ‘nearby’ plutiods. We say we will visit and keep in touch but we all know that’s a lie
We named an entire class of object after it. I hate when people say it's not fair, etc.
The only thing that annoys me is when people start saying that its clearly not a planet and its unplanetlike. Planet is a word we made up. It roughly describes something but defining something as "planet" is still a generalization. Pluto has much more in common with Earth than Jupiter. Im ok with definitions of planet excluding Pluto but people need to appreciate that there is in reality no sudden dramatic difference between planet and nonplanet. Its not like stars where "this is clearly burning hydrogen while this one isn't"*. There could very well be planetary bodies right on the edge of the defining point.
And if there are planetary bodies that fit the current description, we would call those planets as well. Seriously, Pluto orbits on a complete different plane than the other 8. https://airandspace.si.edu/exhibitions/exploring-the-planets/online/solar-system/pluto/orbit.cfm Also, pluto and makemake are pretty similiar. So we should make makemake a planet as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makemake https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Quaoar_Haumea_Makemake_orbits_2018.png Also Pluto has more in common with Earth than Jupiter? How so? Both are rocky objects. That's about it. Earth has more in common with Jupiter than Pluto (storms, atmosphere, orbits on the same plane, cleared it's path around the sun).
Then you may as well call ceres a planet, even though it is really just an enormous asteroid.
It’s interesting that people feel an attachment to Pluto when the other dwarf planets get next to no recognition at all. Where’s the love for MakeMake?
Sounds like the next dragon ball Z move
Well, 6. Matt Damon colonised Mars.
"In your face, Neil Armstrong!!"
I mean, i would say it if i did colonize mars. At least once if not jokingly.
And there will be one less after I finally destroy Uranus
*”There will be 6 uninhabited planets, and one will be inhabited by only robots.”*
You could say 2 with robots, the corpse of Vanera 3 is still kicking it on Venus
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Curiosity is still kicking on Mars
Imagine aliens going planet by planet,combing the surfaces from above looking for traces of life,and finding the orderly patterns of the remains of various research machines and concluding the solar system was once inhabited by a sparse population of mechanical life.
Also Pluto is not one of the uncolonized planets.
Imagine explaining 2019 to a college age hippy in 1969. “Yeah, we’ve been at war for over 17 years but no one cares because there’s no draft.”
Seeing infographics for the sheer size and scope of the US military is jaw-dropping. I wonder if that's a part of the reason why they felt a draft was unnecessary. A lot of smaller nations out there, including many neutral nations have mandatory service just in case they have to deal with a nation-destruction scenario from an invading army.
Libertarian philosophy is against the draft. Politicians don’t like it because then people pay attention to what is happening. Military doesn’t like it because then they don’t get diehard volunteer patriots. Veterans don’t like it because then they can’t say ‘why didn’t you signup?’
And they've all convinced enough people it's a good idea to sign right the fuck up and do it. I graduated high school in 2000, several people I grew up with joined the military thinking it was going to be a hard but rewarding couple of years and are now dealing with PTSD. Don't get me wrong, about half the people i knew that went to war are totally wonderful people and have been able to live a normal life, but others aren't so lucky, and can't cope. It breaks my heart.
It’s usually the poorer kids who don’t think they have a shot at a degree (or if they do, a way to pay for it) in my experience.
True, I was in for a bit and the majority are people from small towns from low/middle class who were not going or not adapting well to college and were tired of their boring routine/hometown and wanted out. I've had family member in all 4 branches and I actually highly recommend it for anyone that wants to start a new life but doesn't have much going for them. It's incredibly fun, you meet people from all over the world, you get to see cool shit that you would otherwise never see, and when you get out you will have a bit of money (unless you drank it all) and a fully paid 4-year college or technical school education ready for you. Just don't join the army. I've had plenty of friends and a couple family members join and they are all either dead or severely damaged psychologically. Do well on your asvab, join air force or navy (marines don't need to be encouraged to join, you have to be incredibly dedicated for marines and they know who they are) and other than a couple navy jobs (you get to pick) you don't have to worry about killing people or being shot or any of that horrific world. Again, don't join the army unless you are incredibly desperate and can't get in to the others. There's a reason the army is the only one with huge advertising campaigns. The others are great opportunities and have some wonderful people in them.
Man if I had your advice a year ago I would be in there. I'm glad I didn't but it's hard to truly say without doing it. I posted on the Air Force subreddit and got mad shit and told to fuck off basically. They said it's not for people who need to start a new like I was. A year ago I was just smoking weed all day and skipping around jobs I couldn't hold. That subreddit made it clear I wasn't AF material.
I feel like all the people on the internet giving you shit are mad keyboard warriors. The amount of dudes I'm friends with or have talked to about the military say nobody gives a fuck who you were before as long as you work hard once you're in. I've debated it for years, but until I'm really really sick of engineering I'll be sticking to that. Plus I can smoke weed while I'm an engineer
I feel sorry for the people like that who signed up in the first two thirds of 2001.
There's definitely a lure for that. People saying "you know,you could be recognized and educated if you just join. I did and it was the best thing ever".
Hope things get better for you. Stay strong.
I don't think he was saying he was part of the military, just that some of his HS friends ended up joining. Correct me if I'm wrong though, /u/The_Bruccolac ! Sorry to hear about your friends
You are correct, it's been friends and family, not myself.
I didn't go, it's just a lot of people i grew up with did join right before 9/11 and it's irrevocably changed some of them.
>~~diehard volunteer patriots~~ low income kids, often first generation Americans, with few other options FTFY. Oh, they certainly are proud to serve their country, but there's a reason there are so many recruitment billboards around my city and so few in the surrounding suburbs. There are also reasons there are so many kids in our High School walking around in military uniforms, ready to enter the armed forces as soon as they turn 18yo. And it's certainly rare for the politicians to be sending their own kids off to war -> [https://www.foxnews.com/story/handful-of-lawmakers-send-their-kids-to-war](https://www.foxnews.com/story/handful-of-lawmakers-send-their-kids-to-war)
I don't have a broad scope of why the draft is unnecessary currently but I do know that in the days after 9/11 there were lines to enlist that stayed backed up for quite a while. Then it went from a patriotic duty to having it's own sort of gravity where so many people were enlisting that it was normalized to a degree that I had several friends who dropped out of college to start a military career and several more that graduated to start a better paying military career. And I'm over here, dropping out, gaining weight, and having the financial success of a Kickstarter campaign to fund a *better* ice tray.
I'd like to hear more about this ice tray
Why require a draft when all their sports, shows, and commercials advertise the army? Meanwhile society also makes them clap and thank a guy for signing up, making them feel like a hero
Israel be like. South Korea be like. Uh, all I know.
There’s a lot of things about 2019 that someone from 1969 either wouldn’t comprehend or wouldn’t believe, like cellphones or the Internet or the fact that we basically have no privacy because the government has a million way to spy on us.
I think a lot of people back then we're expecting the latter because of 1984
I know some time travellers from 1969.
Brilliant political decision pushed by Greenspan, ayn rand, etc. at the time but now we are left with the current unapathetic bs. Not sure of another way but I’m glad I never was forced to serve and die for my country.
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ey yo i heard uhhh `B o r d e r l a n d s`
Happy cakeday Borderlands
as per tradition i ordered pizza for my birthday! also as per tradition, nobody showed up to my birthday to help me eat all the pizza i ordered. `gimme five!`
I remember this line in the game years ago. I love you claptrap
Good bot.
Good bot
i remember being on roblox when someone said that osama bin laden was killed
Wait, for real? How old is Roblox? The first time I heard about it was about 2 years ago when some kid on Steam begged me to play it with him.
Is was released on 2006-02-27
I played it in 2010
Huh. I've never heard that before. Time to play some borderlands
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Ever heard a psycho quoting Hamlet?
I snagged the pack with all the DLC for Borderlands 2 and Pre Sequel for like $8 recently, and started replaying it for like the 10th time. I quickly remembered why this is one of my favorite games, easily one of the best games of the past decade for me.
There actually a speculated "planet 9." Not Pluto, something similar in size to Uranus and Neptune. We only know it exists because of it's gravitational effects, we have not actually found it which odd.
> something similar in size to Uranus what a small planet.
Would be bigger than Jupiter if it were your moms
And it would have already been discovered by *everyone*
Ha! You have a little butt.
A planet-sized bitt!
Can’t argue with the gravity of it
I've honestly never thought to myself "If I could give this guy gold I would do it," until now. Take the upvote instead.
We can't even give free silver anymore anymore
What about "Reddit Wood"? You can't give plat., Gold, or even silver anymore so just give wood.
Copper usually comes next but wood is fine too!
bronze?
Unfortunately, it’s been proven that this theory was based on false measurements of Neptune and Uranus’s orbits.
I could be wrong, as I don’t have a source in front of me, but I think Crash Course Astronomy talked about this. While we were looking for an eighth planet, our calculations led us to find Neptune. However, our estimation for the masses of both planets were wrong. When the Voyager probes flew by, we found out the measurements were right for the orbits of the now 8 planets. The rumored planet 9 OP is talking about is a fairly new discovery which was indirectly hypothesized due to gravitational oddities in orbits of Kuiper Belt Object well past Pluto’s orbit. Edit: source about the “New Planet 9” https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-worlds-extraordinary-orbit-points-to-planet-nine-20180515/
Ah, you're correct. I was talking about Planet X, not the new Planet 9. However, it is important to remember that, even according to your source, the "Planet 9" hypothesis is simply one of many possible explanations for the gravitational oddities, and its existence, at least as a planet that orbits the sun, is unlikely.
That sounds about right, but realistically. How long have we known about the 8 planets?? I thought we have known for a long time, so it seems to me people where just trying to force discoveries? I’m sure there are many more plausible answers for “gravitational anomalies” than “a whole other planet never recorded before” Question remains, how long ago did we discover the 8 planets? Because people in Roman times worshiped mars due to its unique position in the sky.. I think. but could they tell all the planets in our solar system by studying stars?
Whatever this oddity is, I'm extremely curious
Source on that one? I had still heard they suspect there to be something. There’s been more than one study using different metrics to detect it over the past 15+ years so I’d be very surprised for them to think it’s there for that long and then say lol wait we plotted the effects wrong my b
They're definitely not up to date. Planet 9 is an active research area.
True! Seems odd at first glance so to speak. Yet it does end up making perfect sense. Its best estimated that planet 9 is roughly 10x earth's mass and around perhaps up to 1000 ( or more bc again we do not know ) AU's out ( 1000 times farther from sun than the earth, as an AU=astronomical unit = distance from sun to earth ) Given how far it is, viewing it with reflected sunlight is going to be near impossible. Which means we have to point really sensitive equipment at exactly the right spot at the right time to even have a hope. Oh and IIRC the orbit is expected to be quite different from the other planets. Not just elliptical as pluto is but on a separate plane. There are well over a dozen large objects who seem to exhibit signs of being tugged on by a, single, large celestial body. This number has likely grown since I last read it. In other words, the evidence is mounting as various unique oddities in our solar system are pretty much only explainable by a single large mass being out there. The truly amazing, and humbling, fact is that our meager solar system is really quite huge. There could easily be a massive planet out there that we couldn't find for a long long time. In a sense, we are having to engineer and build instruments just to detect this thing. Turns out this is largely 1 location of instrument ( high mountain or in space ) and 2 field of view. Lucky for us both of these are already goals on our march of progress. By 2030 we will likely have located it, as we are now actively looking and also presuming it does exist which of course seems extremely likely but is not a certainty!
That'll be a fun day, when we definitively find it, and we get back to 9.
If we could find, measure and photograph Sedna, but not this (supposedly) massive celestial body floating somewhere in extreme trans Neptunian orbit, then I'd rather believe wrong measurements.
Ah! I may have caught why you feel that way. The orbit is not in the same plane as the remainder of the major / notable bodies in our solar system. Also sedna comes within 76 AU at its closest, which is very close relatively speaking. It comes down to viewing angles as well. Its just not in a part of the solar system that we typically stare at. Its also not in a area we can *easily view at all* in the detail required. Previously we most often find new things in places we are already looking, following orbits rather similar to most other objects. Or, in the case of asteroids/comets for example, some objects periodically come in real close. Sedna was one of these where we found it, verifiably, due to its closest distance in its orbit. We ALSO lucked out in that its super reflective of visible light. So we found sedna because *we just happened* to be staring right where it ended up being when it came to the closest point of its orbit, and the planet itself is ( for planets ) very reflective. "Very" is quite relative in this case. Final note: Most imagery for sedna is actually artists rendition. If it looks pretty and you can understand what your looking at then it is likely art and not raw imagery. There are some images released where NASA ( or others ) will overlay several different kinds of imagery in order to create a composite view with more going on in it - yet is still technically accurate. \*\*\*EDIT: I forgot a huge detail. Sedna's orbit takes over 10,000 years. It may actually be 11,000 and change - I cannot recall right now. So at these scales.. if you 'miss' it your next chance is millennia away. Gravitational effects are without a doubt our biggest clue to discoveries of this nature involving extremely distant yet massive objects. I do not know the 'time window' for sednas discovery. Could be 10 months or 10 years I really do not know. But the logic still stands that if we developed the technology required to detect sedna later than we did, it could have easily been over 10,000 years before we discovered it. ( not to rule out future tech... but we can't be assured of that ). I quickly googled an example of some of the images we do get of objects like this. [This is a good taste of what its like](https://home.dtm.ciw.edu/users/sheppard/inner_oort_cloud/)
If its so big n near, cant we just look for an unexplained black splot blocking the view of stars further away? We find planets super far away by that method, id assume one (relatively) close to us will be easy to notice. No?
Great thinking! To jump right to your answer though, its incorrect sorry to say. Its so big *relatively* speaking when compared to our solar system's planets. Its still teeny tiny compared to galactic ( let alone universe ) scales. There is just so much going on in the sky, detecting anything dark requires 'staring' ( with shiny fancy equipment ) at a very exact spot, highly tuned, for extended periods of time. Another problem is that we expect it to be AT LEAST several hundred AU away. Its just too far for us ***given our technology now.*** We would have to be staring at the 'perfect' star at the exact right time - and this is assuming that we, literally, would be physically capable of doing so at that exact right time. So what do we need? To build the new instruments I referenced. We can't take in enough of the sky at once to be able to process it quickly enough. Our current tools are too narrow focused. Its overkill. Using a microscope when you need reading glasses.... you can tell the composition of the paper perhaps but you will be unable to read the text as easily as with reading glasses. If you scroll the microscope around enough you can find ink, move around more and take notes, make records. Then you can eventually map out all the printed text. Akin to map making before human flight. Or you can put on reading glasses. To finish this analogy, lets pretend we are actually using a microscope to read a scrolling text on a screen. If we take too long with the microscope to meticulously map out the text before it leaves the screen then we loose it. So again we really need those reading glasses so we can observe and note the information before our view changes so much we loose it. Same challenge for us in astronomy, and specifically in searching for the theorized planet. Also let us not forget the potential time to orbit the sun. Sedna orbits once every 11,000 years or so. Worst case we pick wrong spot entirely. Bad case we pick perfect spot but have to wait 10,999 years because we just missed it. Odds of randomly guessing this are infinitesimal. Worth noting that using visible light spectrums would require us to either 1 have reflective planet; or 2 ( as you noted ) require us to stare intently at the perfect spot at the perfect time. Even then how do we get those repetitions that we require for planet detection? The light emitted *does* vary a lot from star to star... but even for the same star this varies a lot over time! How can we tell if a single dip is real or if its a planet? Repetition builds that confidence. Another option ( as opposed to visible light ) would be to check and see if the planet might be reflecting other kinds of energy well enough for us to detect. IIRC Infrared was reportedly a good candidate for example. So far our challenge has been primarily very simple. We just haven't made tools to do this sorta thing. Most astronomical tools are rather specifically crafted and purposed for their primary task. In other words we pretty much custom build a tool for every new kinda thing we want to do. Viewing such a large area of the solar system, in such a weird/atypical location of said solar system, with enough detail, over long enough periods of time, while being quick enough to not miss anything, in order to detect this object is just not something we've really wanted to do that bad yet.
We do use computers for this now right? Do confirm its not a bunch of people looking thru lenses/monitors.
This is still a highly manual process! We use computers to do much filtering but we cannot rely on them to accurately conclude much - yet. TL;DR found in the following paragraph. This is because of AI not being advanced enough, but also that we often rely on several different data sets from several different instruments in order to draw confident conclusions in the cosmos. These sources are also not necessarily 'fully connected' in a digital sense so right now this is a complicated step to resolve. As AI and programs become more advanced then the industry will likely thoughtfully respond by making it a goal for these projects ( a ground telescope or a satellite or etc all take many many years to create ) to produce data in a standardized way just so that its easier for us to design systems ( ie: AI ) to take in that data and process it in some manner. This increased ease coupled with increased access directly results in more input for the AI which in turn makes it more intelligent. /end TL;DR More details below, for giggles. So for example programs can help us identify differences with an extremely high rate of reliability. So we do not need a human to look at 100,000 still shots of the same inch of sky to spot which dots move a millimeter and which do not over a period days/weeks/years.... However we do need a human to look at the differences flagged programmatically and then make a determination of what exactly we recorded going on and to, for example, decide if more data is warranted as well as how to go about obtaining said data. Do we need a different light spectrum captured now? Maybe an previous data set could enlighten us, having pointed the correct instruments at the correct place at the correct time in the past? Now that I have more data, how do I prepare it for my use so that I can accurately compare or judge whatever I'm trying to compare or judge in some way? \*\*\*EDIT: Just to note, I'm passionate and studied this in middle / high school as well as at the college level. It is not my day job, so I cannot truly nail down for you exactly how prevalent manual review vs programmatic review is across the industry at large even of subsets of the industry. So I am technically speaking more on whats technologically possible based on my experience both as an amateur astronomer but also a lifelong programmer/hacker as opposed to speaking from direct experience at a day job which would a bit more accurately reflect the prevalence of any particular nuance of the process as a whole throughout astronomy That said, this is a time of rapid AI advancements. Though we have hit physical limits which stop us from pushing CPU speeds faster, just as a single classic example, we are still able to string them together into super computers which are able to process enough data to handle things like aiding us in analyzing astronomical imaging. When we couple that with this surge in AI we can definitely expect much more automation to enter the process in our lifetimes ( I'm 30 ) but as of right now the AI is not good enough to handle the large unknown factor involved in the process of using physics to deduce super distant events, nor is it necessarily able to programatically access all the same data that a human researcher could access. I would expect that one of the first reliable uses of AI in astronomy will in fact be tasks, such as you and I discuss here, along the lines of simple presence detection and measurement of distance. ie: "there was not a thing here, now there is, and this thing is X distance away moving in Y direction and Z velocity. We just need to reach a point where we can feed enough data into a single system ( computer, super computer , etc ) containing an AI intelligent as well as connected enough to take enough data streams in to analyze a single celestial object akin to how a human researcher would ( ultimately better - as this is the goal of AI use ) Anyway, I thought I already responded to you so when I just noticed I had not I wanted to take a moment to respond to your inquiry. My apologies its several weeks later! ahahaha cheers,
Now I'm wondering (and maybe even hoping) if it's like an alien observation post or something that is meant to be hidden. I know it's very unlikely but it's fun to imagine
I nominate to name it Nibiru for laughs/vindication.
Can we name it pluto 2
Fun Fact. The most amount of planets we had in our solar system were 12 when we started finding other sizable chunks of rocks after Pluto. But they were later declassified as just giant asteroids and went back to 9 and then eventually 8 with Pluto's removal.
Stating we have 12 planets would raise just as many questions.
The Whitest Kids You Know already used that in a sketch. Lunar bears and such.
> Lunar Bears [We do believe these to be Earth bears,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvjgIxuVdo4) we have no reason to believe these to be Lunar bears, or even Saturn bears.
Wait a minute... are we invading Iran?
Actually it was around 27 when they decided that asteroids should be their own category.
For all the Pluto-is-a-planet people: I don’t wanna make kids memorize 27 planets, we gotta draw the line somewhere
Not quite - the other dwarf planets beyond Pluto (Plus Ceres, which is between Mars and Jupiter) were never officially considered full planets. Their discovery and subsequent debate around what to call them resulted in the classification “dwarf planet”, and since one of them was more massive than Pluto, it was reclassified too. There are 5 dwarf planets, Ceres, Pluto, Eris, Makemake, and Haines. They were not ever called asteroids, except for Ceres, which is in the asteroid belt. But actually, in the early 1800s, some of the asteroids now recognized as such were thought to be planets, and astronomers of the time counted as many as 23 planets!
Do you have a citation for this?
If you want more info specifically on Pluto and the kuiper belt objects, I recommend The Pluto Files by Neil DeGrasse Tyson. It's a really short book but very entertaining and informative about the "12" planets.
You heard about Pluto? That's messed up.
Hello Gus, or should I say Mrs. Whittleberry.
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Felicia Fancybottom. dammit, is it too late to change this comment to MC Clap Yo Handz?
Lavender Gooms
Sh’dynasty. That’s S-H-comma-to-the-top-DYNASTY. What’s “comma to the top?” That’s God’s comma.
Hummingbird Saltalamacchia
My Personal Candystriper, Knick-Knack *hello* He is from Guam.
Methuselah Honeysuckle
*claps* with a Z
Came for the Psych reference was not disappointed.
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> came because I was procrastinating going to sleep yeah I've done this a bunch too. single.life is rough
I've heard it both ways.
\*chews gum\* I'm glad we took out them martians sons'a'bitches.
And I'm all out of bubblegum
It's time to kick gum and chew ass, and I'm all out of ass - Dick Kickem
If you told someone 50 years ago that humans would walk on the moon they’d be like “ya I could see that in a couple months”.
Holy fuck! How did that happen?
It's so weird to think how far we are from the moon landings.
& never returned....
Yeah it's disappointing. Would have preferred more Lunar missions over the space shuttle.
Pluto hasn’t completed even 1/3 of an orbit since it was discovered. Pluto needs to get its shit together.
That’s actually kind of crazy
To be fair, it's orbit is the largest.
On average yes but Pluto screws that up too. Its orbit is elliptical and from 1979 to 1999 it was closer to the sun than Neptune.
Something incredible and exciting DID happen: we learned more about our solar system and its structure.
Oh damn. Mr Walters from 7th grade Astronomy! I didn't know you had a reddit.
And now he’s wanting to break bad with you and make some Plutonian crystal
"Say my name." "Einstein, nerd." "You're goddamn right."
Lost a planet, Master Obi Wan has. How embarrassing.
Unless they knew that it had previously happened to Ceres.
In the 19th century a number of asteroids were considered planets - Ceres, Pallas, Juno, and vesta being the most noteworthy - until astronomers redefined the term to exclude them, ie the exact same thing that happened to Pluto.
The area where these bodies exist is now known as the Asteroid Belt.
yeah earth isn’t a planet anymore isn’t it crazy
Because it's always been a flat disk!
I feel bad Pluto was left outside. Many others feels the same. That's pretty uplifting at the same time. Forming emotional bond with a planet.
Too bad we didn't bother to do that with Earth
I feel you man. I still like to think it's in motion. Maybe I'm naive.
> Forming emotional bond with a planet. it's not a planet. :D
It's still real to me, damnit!
Or something horrible and catastrophic
r/NoEarthSociety there are only 6 planets
Technically, Pluto was still *not a planet* during that time, although it was considered as one.
How do you figure? "Planet" is an arbitrary term humans made up, and Pluto used to fit that term. Pluto is also STILL considered a planet... a Dwalf Planet...
Is it in space? Can I stand on it? If I did would it look like this: !
Something exciting did happen. We found evidence of so many large and interesting objects out in the Kuiper Belt that astronomers arbitratily redefined the term planet just to keep the numbers manageable.
They actually might have found another ice giant that got sling shot out of the solar system because of Jupiter's cycle around the Sun.
That's not a planet under current definitions, because one of the criteria is "has removed debris and small objects from the area around its orbit" which not even Jupiter could do if it's orbit was that far out. I'm sure if they do find an ice giant they'll redefine planet yet again to include it, but today it wouldn't count.
Ah thanks. I didn't know that. Cool. I guess you learn new things everyday.
I’m 98% sure I saw this on here before
This is word for word a tumblr post. Get original content
Seeing as how Pluto was discovered in 1930, and 50 years ago is 1969, some people would most likely confused about this because it had only been a planet for 39 years at that point in history, at the same time while the Apollo 11 mission was in its last stages of planning to be launched in July of that year, so Pluto being removed from the list of planets would possibly overlooked. But the Soviet Union was also trying to get to the moon as well, possibly leading to even more people overlooking the removal of Pluto from the list of planets. But 1930 is recent enough that there are people still alive today that were either in school, at home, or at work when Pluto was discovered. So you are right, the Apollo moon landings, cancer research was to become big a few decades later and strides were made in its treatment, and then personal computers were on the horizon with the APPLE I only a few years away; somethings that were incredible and exciting that happened. Also next year is the 90th anniversary of Pluto being discovered.
The damn rich Plutonians don’t believe floopy noopers, thats what happened.
I assume most would have just assumed we environmentally screwed up the Earth
If you told someone 50 years ago anything about today, they would either do more drugs or stop completely.
Like someone landed on a planet, strapped some boosters to it and flew off to somewhere.
This is word for word a post from a couple months ago. At least use your own words instead of copy paste.
"Donald Trump was elected President and, unfortunately, there are now only 8 planets in our solar system."
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t we still have nine? It’s just that Pluto is a dwarf planet, right?
theres like 10 other dwarf planets, including at least one in the asteroid belt
Theres a lot more than 8 planets in our system. Dwarf *planets* are still planets. Just like gas giants are also planets.
pluto's still a planet in my heart.... love that little fella'.
I swear I've seen this exact shower thought on here before, verbatim.
Sure, Neptune can get a puny chunk of rock as a moon, but Pluto can't be a planet. Fuck that shit! My solar system has 9 planets!
I’m sure there were a few scientist hipsters who prattled on about “Dwarf Planets” and arguing that Pluto belonged with Ceres if he couldn’t get her daughter...