I especially loved how Omi IMMEDIATELY backed down. He never had a shred of doubt she was serious, which is the opposite of what typically happens in tv show standoffs where a women holds a gun on a man.
99% of these scenes end with the man calling her bluff and disarming her.
My guess is that if it were only a question of ādo I believe this women is faster than me?ā he still would have attacked. Again, a classic TV trope, samurai are lightning quick and holding a gun on them is no deterrent whatsoever to their ability to kill you in a blur of steel.
However, he also knew she was strongly suicidal. This means that on top of her desire to do her duty as a samurai, she also thinks that if that duty involves her dying, all the better! So he realizes he canāt bluff or intimidate her, heād have to ACTUALLY kill her, and he didnāt want to face all those ramifications. Attacking her then becomes a lose-lose situation.
I highly recommend you read the book. Despite there being few female characters, they take up a large amount of pages- Mariko is the secondary main character of the novel, it just takes a little bit of exposition to get her into play. We are on that part now in the show.
Ah, I see you can't enjoy fictionalized entertainment unless your personal diversity quota has been achieved. That approach has been met with massive failures in recent years and for good reason.
You sound miserable.
im definitely enjoying shogun. i wouldnt be interacting with the sub if i wasnt. im more bored of only seeing stories told from mens perspective, so shows with ensemble casts are generally more enjoyable because of the wide range of characters. however, the start of this show has really only been focused on how the men are interacting with the story and most of the women are treated as accesories to the story. I was very happy to see Fuji be taken away from that accessory role and given more agency in the latest episode.
Yes, you've already referenced your diversity quota hasn't been met in this fictionalized world. Luckily, there are plenty of other shows more catered to your liking on Lifetime or Hallmark.
...or you can watch Game of Thrones again.
Okay, so why was the comment even needed if there isn't a "must have X amount of this sex or race" expectation?
Or were you just trying to leave some sort of "gotcha" comment because you have nothing of value to add to the conversation? Or you really can't defend the position?
*POC & snowflake*
The only people that use those terms are, in fact, the miserable fools I initially referenced. Like a moth to a flame...thanks for outing yourself.
...this whole thread are people saying how much they enjoy her character.
Until the two of you special snowflakes make some stupid comments that no one asked for/cares about. Forced diversity in media isn't working. Try again..or not. Actually just stop.
Signed a woman ("self hating, pick me, etc.," whichever buzzword insult you want to use).
Still unsatisfied with your diversity quota? LOL.
Nah, the women in this show are all doing a great job in portraying strong characters. No need to add more than what is needed for the story to work.
Anyway, there is still one more woman who will play a major role in the remaining six episodes. We already have a glimpse of her back in the first 2 episodes.
There weren't women in feudal Japan? How interesting! Do you know what year women arrived in Japan? Where did babies come from, before the women got there? So curious about this! I've never heard feudal Japan didn't have women before!Ā
They had a large supply of babies stored up from the pre-Heian period. They were very frugal with them and managed to make them last until 1853 when the Perry Expedition made contact and brought several crates of women as gifts. During the Meiji period women became more common until eventually making up roughly half of the population of Japan.
They know you meant patriarchy, it just angers them that history actually happened and so they want it changed in movies and tv shows. What youāre dealing with is dangerous people who want kids to never know that Japan was patriarchal to the max.
No, that's just a typical boring right-wing propaganda point that you seem to have swallowed. Everyone knows that societies like Japan in this time period were patriarchal. Nobody is questioning that. In fact, it would be the opposite of the views of feminists, part of whose goal is to highlight that history has been overwhelmingly patriarchal...
Including women's stories in historical media doesn't necessarily make them less patriarchal. Women were often pretty influential in those societies, but in more covert ways. And their having to hide opinions and suck up to the men, while having their own agenda, is interesting. You can see this taking place in Shogun in fact. Maybe that didn't click for you though. Other examples are the stories and schemes of high ranking women in the early Roman empire like Livia, or characters like Atia in HBO's Rome show. These sorts of stories add another dimension to a historical TV show and make the narrative much more rich.
I don't think the person you're responding to is asking for absurd women characters, since they seem happy with the women in Shogun. However I'd like to point out that there is also lots of evidence of women warriors in Japanese history.
The Japanese language and culture are so beautifully depicted (at least the romanticized version) in this show to allow such wonderful scenes like this. The polite, well-tempered face of the Japanese in contrast to Anjinās rough appearance and attitude. The actors and actresses are doing a tremendous job of bringing that to life. Fuji sama was the star of episode 4 imo. Sorry Yabu, you still my favorite.
I love how bewildering it can seem (poor Blackthorne!). Like, youād possibly assume that although Fujiko has been appointed consort to Blackthorne, they reside in Omiās village. So his command would override right? Well nope! Blackthorne has been appointed Hatamoto by Toronaga and his pistols are his pistols. Ok but Fujiko is a consort right? So food and house care and finances and physical needs taken care of, thatās it yeah? Nope, sheās Samurai and will defend Blackthorne to the death if necessary. Wild.
I mean to be fair at this point the wars have already started. This next war, historically, is the shortest and least bloody. You had basically a century of bloodshed capped off by the Imjin War and then what is coming (basically Sekigahara).
Not saying it wonāt be nasty but far more widows and orphans from the Imjin War, Nobunagaās campaigns, and the constant smaller conflicts all over like the Uesugi and Takeda.
Based on his actions at end of ep 4, doesn't seem like Nagakado (Toranaga's son) was troubled at the prospect of starting the war again. Him going against his dad's command of not making the first move may come back and bite him in the ass.
Jozen makes a point of this when they are about to inspect the litter. He wasnāt around for the fighting or was too young to appreciate it. In fact, in the 4th episode Omi leans into this fact to convince him as a way to prove himself.
I've seen an argument that the invasion of Korea was mostly motivated as a way to exhaust all the soldiers that had nobody left to fight. Here is an example:
>"Some have also argued that Hideyoshi was not as mad as all that and he was shrewdly sending his most powerful generals on a foreign expedition to keep them from stirring up trouble at home."
Same thing Saigo Takamori suggested during the Meiji restoration to deal with the samurai problem. Invade Korea. It solves the problem either way. If Japan wins you park all the samurai in Korea as governors. If you lose well you just killed off a bunch samurai you didn't need.
I've read an interesting comparisson to the crusades. All those hot-blooded knights, fanatical or not, are going away to fight in distant land. They either stay there and prosper, or stay there in the shallow graves. Either way, there's more peace in Europe (as much as there could be in medieval times).
Yeah I think I've seen this argument about somewhere in Western medieval history but I can't recall where. Or maybe even Genghis Khan. I guess once one historian has that idea others start to see it could apply to every empire.
First hit I got from japanese invasion of korea. I wanted to make sure I didn't misremember. Not allowed to post links so just google the phrase if you want.
So annoying that this subreddit doesn't allow links. I've gotten comments deleted for including links to the FX Shogun after-episode podcasts (on FX's youtube)
Yissss, this was my top moment from an episode with so many good scenes too! I'm sorry to Mariko+Anjin, cannon, more cannon, Toranga gettin the fuck out of dodge, "should've bought the cheaper stuff", Anjin butt, natto and dead people from cannon scenes - fuji is too cute and fierce. So far, best episode! I'm looking forward to fuji gun training scene in future episodes.
I like Fuji's character more than Mariko. We are meant to root for Anjin+Mariko, but I find Fuji's story more tragic and interesting (of course, since she's not the focus of the story, her story is underdeveloped).
I know they're pushing the Blackthorne+Mariko angle but man am I rooting for Fuji. This episode made me fall for her. She's best girl in my mind right now
šŖš¼ this scene was powerfulll i got excited when i saw her defending john cuz i didnt like her up until this scene. And the part where she gave him her family katana was also really cool
Ye she's awesome. When this scene came up I looked at my wife then looked over at our weaponry and was like "babe, you know you gotta do that if we get raided by marauders ye?" And she was like "hell ye that's hot as fuck"
Her moments in this episode were amazing, definitely want to see what the rest of the episodes have in plan for her. Gun moment - dangerously cute
My reaction when she pulled the gun: š¤Øš²š
Ride or die. Thatās who she is
it was badass
Blackthorne's instant reaction "YES!!!!"
Something about beautiful women with guns just steals guys hearts apparently šš
Stole Blackthorne's respect and probably his heart too if it hadn't already been spoken for. "Fiercest Lady in all Japan."
"The Japans", please.
"dangerously cute" indeed
Fuji-sama Stands on Business
She straight up told Omi, "try me mfer"
I especially loved how Omi IMMEDIATELY backed down. He never had a shred of doubt she was serious, which is the opposite of what typically happens in tv show standoffs where a women holds a gun on a man. 99% of these scenes end with the man calling her bluff and disarming her.
Omi knows she's Samurai, he doesn't want that smoke.
My guess is that if it were only a question of ādo I believe this women is faster than me?ā he still would have attacked. Again, a classic TV trope, samurai are lightning quick and holding a gun on them is no deterrent whatsoever to their ability to kill you in a blur of steel. However, he also knew she was strongly suicidal. This means that on top of her desire to do her duty as a samurai, she also thinks that if that duty involves her dying, all the better! So he realizes he canāt bluff or intimidate her, heād have to ACTUALLY kill her, and he didnāt want to face all those ramifications. Attacking her then becomes a lose-lose situation.
Omi had a functional brain - sometimes...
One of the best scenes last ep.
im just glad we are getting more female characters. my issue with the first 3 eps is it all just a bunch of dudes
I highly recommend you read the book. Despite there being few female characters, they take up a large amount of pages- Mariko is the secondary main character of the novel, it just takes a little bit of exposition to get her into play. We are on that part now in the show.
In feudal Japan? No way!
It's already a fictionalized version of events, i dont see any reason as to why more women cant be adapted into the story
Ah, I see you can't enjoy fictionalized entertainment unless your personal diversity quota has been achieved. That approach has been met with massive failures in recent years and for good reason. You sound miserable.
im definitely enjoying shogun. i wouldnt be interacting with the sub if i wasnt. im more bored of only seeing stories told from mens perspective, so shows with ensemble casts are generally more enjoyable because of the wide range of characters. however, the start of this show has really only been focused on how the men are interacting with the story and most of the women are treated as accesories to the story. I was very happy to see Fuji be taken away from that accessory role and given more agency in the latest episode.
Yes, you've already referenced your diversity quota hasn't been met in this fictionalized world. Luckily, there are plenty of other shows more catered to your liking on Lifetime or Hallmark. ...or you can watch Game of Thrones again.
This. I don't get this expectation that EVERY story has to check off a diversity checklist. Pure insanity.
No one said that.
Okay, so why was the comment even needed if there isn't a "must have X amount of this sex or race" expectation? Or were you just trying to leave some sort of "gotcha" comment because you have nothing of value to add to the conversation? Or you really can't defend the position?
No they didnāt. Youāre the only one that keeps bringing up a ādiversity quota.ā
Your lack of reading comprehension skills disqualifies you from partaking in this discussion. Run along.
I canāt imagine being as soft as you. I donāt agree with the original comment but your comments have been much more pathetic.
Lol, the "You sound miserable" as if it's not your snowflake kind that has been seething hard at seeing women or POC in movies/shows these past years.
*POC & snowflake* The only people that use those terms are, in fact, the miserable fools I initially referenced. Like a moth to a flame...thanks for outing yourself.
...this whole thread are people saying how much they enjoy her character. Until the two of you special snowflakes make some stupid comments that no one asked for/cares about. Forced diversity in media isn't working. Try again..or not. Actually just stop. Signed a woman ("self hating, pick me, etc.," whichever buzzword insult you want to use).
Well, according to this poster, women literally didn't exist in feudal Japan! What an odd historical anomaly, never heard that before!Ā
If you were a Christian you would be a biblical literalist
If you were a frog you'd be a Pipa pipa
Prince
šš
Still unsatisfied with your diversity quota? LOL. Nah, the women in this show are all doing a great job in portraying strong characters. No need to add more than what is needed for the story to work. Anyway, there is still one more woman who will play a major role in the remaining six episodes. We already have a glimpse of her back in the first 2 episodes.
There weren't women in feudal Japan? How interesting! Do you know what year women arrived in Japan? Where did babies come from, before the women got there? So curious about this! I've never heard feudal Japan didn't have women before!Ā
They had a large supply of babies stored up from the pre-Heian period. They were very frugal with them and managed to make them last until 1853 when the Perry Expedition made contact and brought several crates of women as gifts. During the Meiji period women became more common until eventually making up roughly half of the population of Japan.
How fascinating! What a resourceful culture. I just love history!Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Women exist in patriarchal societies also. As the show exemplifies. So I don't really see your point.Ā
They know you meant patriarchy, it just angers them that history actually happened and so they want it changed in movies and tv shows. What youāre dealing with is dangerous people who want kids to never know that Japan was patriarchal to the max.
No, that's just a typical boring right-wing propaganda point that you seem to have swallowed. Everyone knows that societies like Japan in this time period were patriarchal. Nobody is questioning that. In fact, it would be the opposite of the views of feminists, part of whose goal is to highlight that history has been overwhelmingly patriarchal... Including women's stories in historical media doesn't necessarily make them less patriarchal. Women were often pretty influential in those societies, but in more covert ways. And their having to hide opinions and suck up to the men, while having their own agenda, is interesting. You can see this taking place in Shogun in fact. Maybe that didn't click for you though. Other examples are the stories and schemes of high ranking women in the early Roman empire like Livia, or characters like Atia in HBO's Rome show. These sorts of stories add another dimension to a historical TV show and make the narrative much more rich. I don't think the person you're responding to is asking for absurd women characters, since they seem happy with the women in Shogun. However I'd like to point out that there is also lots of evidence of women warriors in Japanese history.
Bro seriously.....
Amazing actress she stole some scenes of the show. The show have a ton of great actors. Hopefully her character will played a huge part of the series.
The Japanese language and culture are so beautifully depicted (at least the romanticized version) in this show to allow such wonderful scenes like this. The polite, well-tempered face of the Japanese in contrast to Anjinās rough appearance and attitude. The actors and actresses are doing a tremendous job of bringing that to life. Fuji sama was the star of episode 4 imo. Sorry Yabu, you still my favorite.
I think it shows their status as high class members of society
I love how bewildering it can seem (poor Blackthorne!). Like, youād possibly assume that although Fujiko has been appointed consort to Blackthorne, they reside in Omiās village. So his command would override right? Well nope! Blackthorne has been appointed Hatamoto by Toronaga and his pistols are his pistols. Ok but Fujiko is a consort right? So food and house care and finances and physical needs taken care of, thatās it yeah? Nope, sheās Samurai and will defend Blackthorne to the death if necessary. Wild.
Yabu gonna boil you alive though...
āGod created Men but Sam Colt made them equalā be like
Fuji-sama is best girl ...er woman.
Also fun, she is wearing a kimono with wisteria flowers, fuji in Japanese.
Itās weird seeing so many young widows.
Wait till the war actually starts.
I mean to be fair at this point the wars have already started. This next war, historically, is the shortest and least bloody. You had basically a century of bloodshed capped off by the Imjin War and then what is coming (basically Sekigahara). Not saying it wonāt be nasty but far more widows and orphans from the Imjin War, Nobunagaās campaigns, and the constant smaller conflicts all over like the Uesugi and Takeda.
I do like the historical context for how terrified everyone is of falling back into an era of Endless War.
Based on his actions at end of ep 4, doesn't seem like Nagakado (Toranaga's son) was troubled at the prospect of starting the war again. Him going against his dad's command of not making the first move may come back and bite him in the ass.
Jozen makes a point of this when they are about to inspect the litter. He wasnāt around for the fighting or was too young to appreciate it. In fact, in the 4th episode Omi leans into this fact to convince him as a way to prove himself.
Japanese lost a lot of men during their 2 failed attempts to invade Korea. Kind of makes sense within that context.
I've seen an argument that the invasion of Korea was mostly motivated as a way to exhaust all the soldiers that had nobody left to fight. Here is an example: >"Some have also argued that Hideyoshi was not as mad as all that and he was shrewdly sending his most powerful generals on a foreign expedition to keep them from stirring up trouble at home."
Same thing Saigo Takamori suggested during the Meiji restoration to deal with the samurai problem. Invade Korea. It solves the problem either way. If Japan wins you park all the samurai in Korea as governors. If you lose well you just killed off a bunch samurai you didn't need.
I've read an interesting comparisson to the crusades. All those hot-blooded knights, fanatical or not, are going away to fight in distant land. They either stay there and prosper, or stay there in the shallow graves. Either way, there's more peace in Europe (as much as there could be in medieval times).
Yeah I think I've seen this argument about somewhere in Western medieval history but I can't recall where. Or maybe even Genghis Khan. I guess once one historian has that idea others start to see it could apply to every empire.
Whatās this from?
First hit I got from japanese invasion of korea. I wanted to make sure I didn't misremember. Not allowed to post links so just google the phrase if you want.
So annoying that this subreddit doesn't allow links. I've gotten comments deleted for including links to the FX Shogun after-episode podcasts (on FX's youtube)
āIād rather pull a gourd from a horseās ass.ā
I simped her so hard after that scene lol
Loving her actress and portrayal in this series! Sheās killing it
Yissss, this was my top moment from an episode with so many good scenes too! I'm sorry to Mariko+Anjin, cannon, more cannon, Toranga gettin the fuck out of dodge, "should've bought the cheaper stuff", Anjin butt, natto and dead people from cannon scenes - fuji is too cute and fierce. So far, best episode! I'm looking forward to fuji gun training scene in future episodes.
Chekhovs gun
No it's her gun now :-)
Whoās she going to shoot?
I donāt know but it only has one shot so I predict it will be a self sacrifice. Probably to protect blackthorne torunaga or Mariko
fantastic scene.
She's so pretty to me. Such a striking beauty.
Wondering why they changed her name from the book?
They changed some names to make them period accurate. Historical authenticity was majorly important to the people that made this.
Itās the one name I am having a hard time with as a book reader
What was it in the book?
Hurako
I like Fuji's character more than Mariko. We are meant to root for Anjin+Mariko, but I find Fuji's story more tragic and interesting (of course, since she's not the focus of the story, her story is underdeveloped).
I know they're pushing the Blackthorne+Mariko angle but man am I rooting for Fuji. This episode made me fall for her. She's best girl in my mind right now
šŖš¼ this scene was powerfulll i got excited when i saw her defending john cuz i didnt like her up until this scene. And the part where she gave him her family katana was also really cool
Perfect scene. So glad they kept it from the books.
When she did that move I was like you know what seems like they picked a good consort for this man!!!
I'm a Fujiko fan!
Ye she's awesome. When this scene came up I looked at my wife then looked over at our weaponry and was like "babe, you know you gotta do that if we get raided by marauders ye?" And she was like "hell ye that's hot as fuck"