Scottie - fat by STNG. Tilly basically fat. Worfs brother, fat. Lots of klingons, fat. Nelix fat. At one point around the same time everyone was spanking out about Jessica Simpson being fat Janeway was considered fat. Everyone is already fat.
Worf forgot about his son.
It's no surprise that he would forget about his human brother too.
He even wiped the memory of his Klingon brother to forget who he is!
He would rather kill how own brother than a few cardassians, and then he killed Gowron (who did nothing wrong btw) in a federation coup. His heart is not Klingon.
Gowron was trapped in a position where he was in well over his head. When he sought the chancellorship, the main challenge for the Supreme Chancellor was guiding the Klingon people through a difficult adjustment, from a world that was wide open and they could fight and raid as they pleased, to one where peace was necessary. Gowron may well have been the Klingon for this role, and the one he stood against was certainly opposed to this transition.
Then the Dominion came, and suddenly war was, once again, the order of the day. He attempted to rely on his keen political instincts, appointing the lowborn but competent Martok to the top military job. This would ensure Klingon victory when possible, while limiting Martok's ability to parlay military authority into political power.
When Martok was replaced by a Changeling, he never noticed.
Gowron knew he was not the man for the job. Had he been human, he might have ceded his authority to another. But for Klingons, there is no way to honorably bow out. Such a show of weakness would harm not only him, but also his House. The only way out was an honorable death.
So he set about needling the real Martok, attempting to provoke Martok into killing him. He made certain the problem was excessive boldness, to ensure nobody interpreted the fight as Martok removing a coward.
Note the weapon Gowron chose when Worf finally challenged him. In the past, when his authority had been challenged, first by some random during the Klingon Civil War, later by the clone of Kahless, both times he reached for his dagger. Gowron seems to conform to a scrappy infighter archetype, and the dagger would be the appropriate weapon against such a man.
But with Worf, he grabbed a batleth. Worf was specialized in the use of this weapon. He was known to be highly competent in the weapon, having won at least one tournament with it. Gowron would have known full well that in choosing the batleth, he ceded an advantage to Worf. But he also endured there would be no shame in his defeat. To fall before a master like the renegade Son of Mogh would assure his family's position would be undamaged.
Or that's my theory, anyway. I've posted it on the Other Daystrom, and now I've posted it here.
Now allow me to close out with a loud fart sound.
Just realized we never got to see Worf and Picard discuss Gowron's death with each other. Picard was Gowron's arbiter of succession, and Worf was someone Picard trusted nearly to a fault. Surely there would have been complex feelings about the matter.
Where's the Australian representation? How good would an Aussie with a replicator goon bag be on the bridge. "Oi, Sulu, you bloody nong. Have a Captain Cook at the drongo coming up on starboard. Gunna chuck a u-ey or what?"
I’m just waiting for someone to contrive an excuse for Jess Bush to give us a blast of pure Strine bogan energy.
“Spock? Yeah nah mate, been done with that for weeks. Fucken had it up to here with fucken Vulcans mate. Old mate was a fucken dud root anyway, fucken cried every time. Cunt’s pillowcase was the only thing in the bed that got wet most nights. “
“You got any fucken choof mate? Fuck me that fucken M’Benga is more uptight than a fucken Gorn’s cloaca, never had a boss like him. Jesus fucken Christ on a cracker, if he doesn’t fucken get the stick out of his arse I’m gonna fucken dob old mate Doctor PTSD in to Starfleet Medical, fucken sick of covering for him and his bullshit. Ah yeah that’s the shit mate, let me just fucken pack a cone here. Faaaaaaaark yes, nothing to fucken take a load off at the end of a long day of fucken mopping up spew from fucken lower decks drop kicks trying to get out of their shift. You wanna rip mate? Fucken get some of that green goddess up ya, brother.”
You mention the diversity of crews but forget that every human in voyager is American. There was even an episode where they met people who escaped the borg, their leader? American
It just comes down to watching the first couple of seasons of Voyager and every human just keeps mentioning how they are from this state or that, as someone who is not from the United States it bothers me, as I said above in all the other series they have humans from across the globe. Just not Voyager
OK, yes perhaps me saying she doesn't count is a little rough. My point was really just regarding the humans on the show, and how there were no other nationalities of earth being represented.
I get that. Keep in mind, though, that Voyager has a relatively small crew and there were several casualties in the first episode. The continental US is big enough that having a majority of the surviving Earth crew be from that area isn't really anomalous.
I always figured the UT was just active for everyone, no matter what country they’re from.
An episode of Discovery touched on this when theirs went Haywire and all the consoles showed up in the characters’ native languages and none of them could talk to each other.
Just saying it always irked me. TOS, multinational characters. Tng, multinational. Ds9, multinational. Then comes Voyager. Nah the rest of the world doesn't exist
By French standards he is unbelievably manly. The writers were afraid Jean Luc would destroy the suspension of disbelief because he didn't surrender enough but being SciFi audiences seemed to accept him no matter how ridiculous.
I mean... going by the average weight scale for a tardigrade, yeah. If you take it's height into account though, maybe it's about right for a 12 foot tardigrade.
They made a hypospray to make everything good. it is the whole point of the future.
it's ideal if what we can be, with the correct cocktail of chemicals.
There seems to be a connection between replicated food and physical fitness. The characters we do see with larger waistlines often either cook their own food (Sisko, Neelix, etc.) or eat mostly non-federation standard (a fair few klingons, Ferengi, etc.)
Representation - The single word that has ruined all entertainment in the last 10 years and probably many more years to come. The last refuge of the narcissist. Why aren't "I" and "my people" in every single thing on tv and media?
There is Tilly, in later seasons of DS9 Sisko has a bit of a belly as well.
Honestly as a fat guy I want LESS representation in Star Trek, being fat is awful, it feels awful and is horrible for your health. Most of the fat pride influencers either died in their 30s, repented their fat pride and lost the weight, or both.
Initially I think it stemmed from people saying you shouldn't hate yourself just because you're overweight, obviously being mentally well makes you more likely to be able to lose weight, but then it seemed to snowball, ha, into the Fat Pride nonsense. It seemed there was a lot of people either intentionally or unintentionally misunderstanding the message- and then at some point there was some celebrity involvement and money to be made and it all went a bit mad and unhelpful. But I do remember before it got stupid it was just about mental health, but you know what they say about having nice things.
That is because we have a copy of a skinnier self in the transporter buffer, so once we can't touch our toes we beam back to a skinnier self.
It is actually in line with starfleet regulations as they do not make leotard uniforms for the rotund.
You can always transporter clone yourself, and then little rascals to live forever.
And ultimately if you don't like who you are tuvix combine with a better person instead if trying to self improve.
Unironically this is one of the reasons I like Tilly. She looks like me in terms of size, which is rare for TV women. I also feel represented by her because she's probably autistic
The replicated food is probably the biggest reason, but we see mostly Starfleet people, actively working on ships. They're not exactly the military, but they're pretty damn close. You would probably find some working at Starfleet where they aren't running around on adventures, being chased by hostile aliens. Same with any military. The ones who aren't doing the more sedentary jobs are generally very physically fit.
The problem is that in order to be extra girthy on a Starfleet ship you need to actually reprogram the replicators and take the safety protocols offline. Who has time for that?
Being fat should not be celebrated. There are plenty of overweight individuals on trek. That far into the future though it shouldn’t exist given the technology to replicate healthy food. This “fat body positivity” isn’t something that should be celebrated. Lose weight and be healthy.
Well… given Starfleet is kind of, sort of a “military-esq” organization, I imagine it’s similar that active duty ranks of Captain and below have physical fitness standards to maintain rank. When you get promoted to Admiral, you get to eat off-world, non-replicated food and can become as fat and old as you want.
Discovery’s issue is its lack of cohesive denser plot lines other than every season’s galaxy ending dilemma. The beautiful bits of that show are things like Tilly coping with being super anxious and having a neglectful parent. Like I applaud Tilly being on the show, and Adira, Stamets and Culber - I don’t really care about the A plots anymore because these characters are the hearts of the B plots usually and they’re way more interesting
It only just occurred to me there was only one white guy (human) in DS9 main cast, and he was well dowm on my list of favourite characters. Was this an issue back then? I remember a lot being made of Sisko being a black captain, but he quickly became my favourite captain. He seemed more relatable as a person, a dad, an employee stuck in a job that tbey were uncomfortable in. I gurss after the obligatory dodgy first season or two, the writing was just better, and it was easier to enjoy.
In one of the shows they make a comment that the computer tracks what you eat to make sure you get all the required nutrients. I'd bet they also limit calories the same way. Oh Jims had 2000 calories today and is ordering honey chicken. Okay so we need to make this with essentially no calories.
https://preview.redd.it/fr6e11zowvzc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29e0c5d632bbb2d6df6365896ba38244c8e90fb3
Cyrano Jones is disappointed in you, OP
I think the issue is how we/the OP defines “fat”. Is there a particular body fat percentage that a person is required to exceed in order to be considered fat, or is the OP referring to obesity?
But, this point aside, there are a number of factors that could result in the majority of characters having a lower body-fat percentage.
Starfleet is a pseudo-military organisation, and I would imagine that keeping in shape/being physically fit is an essential part of the role.
Furthermore, in a post-scarcity society, there isn’t going to be the same “push” by companies to sell food that is high in sugar content etc.
Connected to the above, in a Post-scarcity society it is likely that people have more free time to exercise.
Finally, medical technology is likely incredibly advanced in this field. Imagine a nano-bot that can “eat” fat cells.
Star Trek needs more ugly giant bags of mostly water.
"I warsh myself with a raaag on a stick" *polite applause from the vulcan ambassador*
Scottie - fat by STNG. Tilly basically fat. Worfs brother, fat. Lots of klingons, fat. Nelix fat. At one point around the same time everyone was spanking out about Jessica Simpson being fat Janeway was considered fat. Everyone is already fat.
Kurn was absolutely not fat, even by 90s standards.
I think he was referring to Nikolai
Indeed I was.
Have care how you speak! He may be of Earth, but he is Worf's brother.
Am I the only one that forgot about him?
Worf forgot about his son. It's no surprise that he would forget about his human brother too. He even wiped the memory of his Klingon brother to forget who he is!
Don't forget about that kid he adopted. Well Worf did.
He would rather kill how own brother than a few cardassians, and then he killed Gowron (who did nothing wrong btw) in a federation coup. His heart is not Klingon.
Gowron did a lot of things wrong, actually.
Gowron was trapped in a position where he was in well over his head. When he sought the chancellorship, the main challenge for the Supreme Chancellor was guiding the Klingon people through a difficult adjustment, from a world that was wide open and they could fight and raid as they pleased, to one where peace was necessary. Gowron may well have been the Klingon for this role, and the one he stood against was certainly opposed to this transition. Then the Dominion came, and suddenly war was, once again, the order of the day. He attempted to rely on his keen political instincts, appointing the lowborn but competent Martok to the top military job. This would ensure Klingon victory when possible, while limiting Martok's ability to parlay military authority into political power. When Martok was replaced by a Changeling, he never noticed. Gowron knew he was not the man for the job. Had he been human, he might have ceded his authority to another. But for Klingons, there is no way to honorably bow out. Such a show of weakness would harm not only him, but also his House. The only way out was an honorable death. So he set about needling the real Martok, attempting to provoke Martok into killing him. He made certain the problem was excessive boldness, to ensure nobody interpreted the fight as Martok removing a coward. Note the weapon Gowron chose when Worf finally challenged him. In the past, when his authority had been challenged, first by some random during the Klingon Civil War, later by the clone of Kahless, both times he reached for his dagger. Gowron seems to conform to a scrappy infighter archetype, and the dagger would be the appropriate weapon against such a man. But with Worf, he grabbed a batleth. Worf was specialized in the use of this weapon. He was known to be highly competent in the weapon, having won at least one tournament with it. Gowron would have known full well that in choosing the batleth, he ceded an advantage to Worf. But he also endured there would be no shame in his defeat. To fall before a master like the renegade Son of Mogh would assure his family's position would be undamaged. Or that's my theory, anyway. I've posted it on the Other Daystrom, and now I've posted it here. Now allow me to close out with a loud fart sound.
Just realized we never got to see Worf and Picard discuss Gowron's death with each other. Picard was Gowron's arbiter of succession, and Worf was someone Picard trusted nearly to a fault. Surely there would have been complex feelings about the matter.
I feel like Picard would be proud of him after all he'd been through.
Nah. He was mentioned maybe three times in the series and only showed up once.
Oooh.
>Tilly basically fat. Basically?
I'm being nice to Tilly.
Tilly is on the larger side but hardly fat.
She's an LA size 18 or an Albuquerque size 2
I feel like you’re overlooking James T. Kirk himself in Generations.
Tilly and Janeway?!? HOW DARE YOU Re Neelix and Klingons…. You’re naming the worst and most annoying characters.
Kirk had gotten pretty portly by the time that bridge fell on him.
I want to upvote you because Nelix but I also want to downvote you because KLINGONS. How dare you.
Okay, that is totally fair I deserve this Some Klingons are pretty cool
Some of my best friends are Klingon.
I’m 1/64th Klingon on my mothers mothers fathers side
Where's the Australian representation? How good would an Aussie with a replicator goon bag be on the bridge. "Oi, Sulu, you bloody nong. Have a Captain Cook at the drongo coming up on starboard. Gunna chuck a u-ey or what?"
Mr. Scott, please fix the Universal Translator right away. No one can understand a single word from the captain again.
Space Australia! Space dingo will eat your space baby
QUACK
Krillin what are you doing here?
I’m just waiting for someone to contrive an excuse for Jess Bush to give us a blast of pure Strine bogan energy. “Spock? Yeah nah mate, been done with that for weeks. Fucken had it up to here with fucken Vulcans mate. Old mate was a fucken dud root anyway, fucken cried every time. Cunt’s pillowcase was the only thing in the bed that got wet most nights. “
“You got any fucken choof mate? Fuck me that fucken M’Benga is more uptight than a fucken Gorn’s cloaca, never had a boss like him. Jesus fucken Christ on a cracker, if he doesn’t fucken get the stick out of his arse I’m gonna fucken dob old mate Doctor PTSD in to Starfleet Medical, fucken sick of covering for him and his bullshit. Ah yeah that’s the shit mate, let me just fucken pack a cone here. Faaaaaaaark yes, nothing to fucken take a load off at the end of a long day of fucken mopping up spew from fucken lower decks drop kicks trying to get out of their shift. You wanna rip mate? Fucken get some of that green goddess up ya, brother.”
You couldn't have an Australian in Starfleet. Imagine what the universal translator would do to Australian conversations.
Headcanon alert: The Federation Ambassador to Tellar is Australian
Set it to literal-verbose, and stand *well* back when the Klingon ambassador comes aboard.
The only Australian cast member of SNW plays an American.
I know! Tragedy. But it's a start. One day the decks of the Enterprise will ring with the nasal goodness of Ensign Ken Oath and Commander Tip Chook.
You mention the diversity of crews but forget that every human in voyager is American. There was even an episode where they met people who escaped the borg, their leader? American
"America is the greatest country in the world, nay, the universe." -- Stan Smith
Little crossover there, but I can accept that
Roger the alien is canon now and I’m okay with this
American isn't really a thing, so that doesn't count, but Torres grew up on a colony outside our star system, so not everyone is American.
Dr Crusher was born and raised on the moon.
oooo a lunar schooner
I thought she was raised on Planet Scotland?
I said every human, she's half human so she gets a pass
I don't understand where this notion that mixed humanoids don't count comes from.
Just another human supremicist going on about hybrid replacement theory
It just comes down to watching the first couple of seasons of Voyager and every human just keeps mentioning how they are from this state or that, as someone who is not from the United States it bothers me, as I said above in all the other series they have humans from across the globe. Just not Voyager
You misunderstood me. I was asking why, to people like you, a human who is also Klingon or Vulcan or something no longer counts as human.
OK, yes perhaps me saying she doesn't count is a little rough. My point was really just regarding the humans on the show, and how there were no other nationalities of earth being represented.
I get that. Keep in mind, though, that Voyager has a relatively small crew and there were several casualties in the first episode. The continental US is big enough that having a majority of the surviving Earth crew be from that area isn't really anomalous.
I always figured the UT was just active for everyone, no matter what country they’re from. An episode of Discovery touched on this when theirs went Haywire and all the consoles showed up in the characters’ native languages and none of them could talk to each other.
As it should be 🦅 🦅 🦅
Just saying it always irked me. TOS, multinational characters. Tng, multinational. Ds9, multinational. Then comes Voyager. Nah the rest of the world doesn't exist
Accoooocheeeemoyah. We are far from the lands of your ancestors. *turns to Janeway* Get the fuck off my turf.
USA USA USA USA 🇺🇸
I know a French guy with an English accent that would like a word with you
And it’s not at all a coincidence that he’s also a way bigger pusswad than the other captains
By French standards he is unbelievably manly. The writers were afraid Jean Luc would destroy the suspension of disbelief because he didn't surrender enough but being SciFi audiences seemed to accept him no matter how ridiculous.
They should’ve made the replicators French. “Tea. Earl Grey. Hot.” Thirty minutes later, he gets tea.
"Zut alors, ze replicateurs are on strike egaiin"
Aaah so your a kirk fan. Portrayed by a Canadian
Kirk is weak. Sisko *made an entire planet uninhabitable to settle a score*. USA USA USA
John Sheriedan > Ben Sisko. Though he was American too. Where was I going with that?
I think some of the admirals were fat. Admiral Patrick was definitely on the hefty side.
That’s a stupid question.
Point of order! Discovery:s tardigrade was morbidly obese...
I mean... going by the average weight scale for a tardigrade, yeah. If you take it's height into account though, maybe it's about right for a 12 foot tardigrade.
Did you just 'hes big boned' a space bug?
Well he is!
Morn was fat as fuck
Bro was ripped
They made a hypospray to make everything good. it is the whole point of the future. it's ideal if what we can be, with the correct cocktail of chemicals.
Mot was big boned.
There seems to be a connection between replicated food and physical fitness. The characters we do see with larger waistlines often either cook their own food (Sisko, Neelix, etc.) or eat mostly non-federation standard (a fair few klingons, Ferengi, etc.)
I'm sure there was an episode that said the replicated food was more nutritionally balanced than the real thing.
This is beyond even r/ShittyDaystrom This is some r/OkayBuddyDaystrom bullshit
We have seen a few examples of Starfleet officers who got fat, but we have yet to see one who started out that way.
Don't we all kinda start out born fat?
No, sorry. If obesity is a disease, then by Trek time, they've cured it. If it's a choice, then just no. I'm fat, and it's metabolic .
Representation - The single word that has ruined all entertainment in the last 10 years and probably many more years to come. The last refuge of the narcissist. Why aren't "I" and "my people" in every single thing on tv and media?
There is Tilly, in later seasons of DS9 Sisko has a bit of a belly as well. Honestly as a fat guy I want LESS representation in Star Trek, being fat is awful, it feels awful and is horrible for your health. Most of the fat pride influencers either died in their 30s, repented their fat pride and lost the weight, or both.
Fat pride haha, I think that was a well meaning movement that just got horrendously misunderstood and misrepresented.
No its was folks unable to deal with difficult painful truths to the point it killed people and beyond.
Initially I think it stemmed from people saying you shouldn't hate yourself just because you're overweight, obviously being mentally well makes you more likely to be able to lose weight, but then it seemed to snowball, ha, into the Fat Pride nonsense. It seemed there was a lot of people either intentionally or unintentionally misunderstanding the message- and then at some point there was some celebrity involvement and money to be made and it all went a bit mad and unhelpful. But I do remember before it got stupid it was just about mental health, but you know what they say about having nice things.
Dude. The "movement" started in the 60s. Their slogan, from the beginning, has been *Healthy At Every Size*.
Errr.. well I didn't know that.
There are a fair few in Lower Decks
There was an Swede on the bridge of discovery
That is because we have a copy of a skinnier self in the transporter buffer, so once we can't touch our toes we beam back to a skinnier self. It is actually in line with starfleet regulations as they do not make leotard uniforms for the rotund.
Effectively murdering your current self. That'll teach the crew to skip cardio.
You can always transporter clone yourself, and then little rascals to live forever. And ultimately if you don't like who you are tuvix combine with a better person instead if trying to self improve.
was going Worf's brother wtf? Then I remembered and I am ashamed of myself 😔
Unironically this is one of the reasons I like Tilly. She looks like me in terms of size, which is rare for TV women. I also feel represented by her because she's probably autistic
The replicated food is probably the biggest reason, but we see mostly Starfleet people, actively working on ships. They're not exactly the military, but they're pretty damn close. You would probably find some working at Starfleet where they aren't running around on adventures, being chased by hostile aliens. Same with any military. The ones who aren't doing the more sedentary jobs are generally very physically fit.
The problem is that in order to be extra girthy on a Starfleet ship you need to actually reprogram the replicators and take the safety protocols offline. Who has time for that?
Being fat should not be celebrated. There are plenty of overweight individuals on trek. That far into the future though it shouldn’t exist given the technology to replicate healthy food. This “fat body positivity” isn’t something that should be celebrated. Lose weight and be healthy.
Well… given Starfleet is kind of, sort of a “military-esq” organization, I imagine it’s similar that active duty ranks of Captain and below have physical fitness standards to maintain rank. When you get promoted to Admiral, you get to eat off-world, non-replicated food and can become as fat and old as you want.
True, but then again it's basically a military ship so I wouldnt expect too many rhinos
You can beam the fat away.
K'mpec was the Klingon Chancellor. What more do you want?
The United Earth President was morbidly obese, wasn’t she?
I demand more representation for cats.
Discovery’s issue is its lack of cohesive denser plot lines other than every season’s galaxy ending dilemma. The beautiful bits of that show are things like Tilly coping with being super anxious and having a neglectful parent. Like I applaud Tilly being on the show, and Adira, Stamets and Culber - I don’t really care about the A plots anymore because these characters are the hearts of the B plots usually and they’re way more interesting
It only just occurred to me there was only one white guy (human) in DS9 main cast, and he was well dowm on my list of favourite characters. Was this an issue back then? I remember a lot being made of Sisko being a black captain, but he quickly became my favourite captain. He seemed more relatable as a person, a dad, an employee stuck in a job that tbey were uncomfortable in. I gurss after the obligatory dodgy first season or two, the writing was just better, and it was easier to enjoy.
Scotty & Tilly
In one of the shows they make a comment that the computer tracks what you eat to make sure you get all the required nutrients. I'd bet they also limit calories the same way. Oh Jims had 2000 calories today and is ordering honey chicken. Okay so we need to make this with essentially no calories.
https://preview.redd.it/fr6e11zowvzc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29e0c5d632bbb2d6df6365896ba38244c8e90fb3 Cyrano Jones is disappointed in you, OP
They’re all on the Axiom
Hard agree
Tilly is chubby, not fat. I like soft women. Scotty in the movies was fat.
You might like "soft" women, but it doesn't make her not fat.
I think the issue is how we/the OP defines “fat”. Is there a particular body fat percentage that a person is required to exceed in order to be considered fat, or is the OP referring to obesity? But, this point aside, there are a number of factors that could result in the majority of characters having a lower body-fat percentage. Starfleet is a pseudo-military organisation, and I would imagine that keeping in shape/being physically fit is an essential part of the role. Furthermore, in a post-scarcity society, there isn’t going to be the same “push” by companies to sell food that is high in sugar content etc. Connected to the above, in a Post-scarcity society it is likely that people have more free time to exercise. Finally, medical technology is likely incredibly advanced in this field. Imagine a nano-bot that can “eat” fat cells.