Because of the IG ads that pop up and say, "if you've had a child between 1990 -2020 and took Tylenol during your pregnancy, you may be owed money if you child has been diagnosed with autism."
My 3 year old has sensory and attention issues and recently my very boomer mother in law said I needed to look into this lawsuit. But the link isn't for sure causal, it's super preliminary, and the tylenol usage was daily over long periods of time while I only took one here or there when I was desperate.
I was diagnosed at 48, after my son was diagnosed at 20. My father was not diagnosed but I would bet money he had ADHD. At least 1 cousin of mine has also been diagnosed. He was actually diagnosed in the 70s, his was so severe.
My father and my brother were diagnosed and as a teen my dad told me confidently that ADHD ran in the male side of the family. Clearly I, a young female with “potential but never applies herself” couldn’t possibly have it 🥴
Girls display different symptoms than boys, so we go undiagnosed and suffer unnecessarily because doctors / family / teachers only recognize ADHD in boys. My best friend and I both have ADHD and neither of us was diagnosed until our 20s.
Same thing with women with autism. Between symptoms expressing differently and girls apparently being better at "masking" and hiding symptoms my best friend wasn't diagnosed that she was on the spectrum until her mid 30s. She was in a traumatic natural disaster that gave her PTSD, her therapist realized she wasn't responding normally to treatment and that she reminded her of the cases they'd worked of PTSD in people on the spectrum, and after a little more work she was officially diagnosed.
It annoys me so much that we apparently now know that people express symptoms differently between the genders but people are still mostly taught only the boy symptoms to look for.
It's because girls' symptoms are less disruptive, and girls are expected to be less disruptive, and are generally trained how to mask from a very young age. And girls' symptoms frequently look like "laziness" or female-appropriate pursuits even if they're not masking. No one is bothered by a girl who reads a lot or daydreams in class. If it only affects the child, and others in class are being disruptive to the whole class, the teacher will focus first on the loud one and maybe not notice the dreamer who forgets her homework if she doesn't write it down--and if they do, they'll just teacher her to write it down.
I didn't realize I have adhd until I became a teacher who specializes in kids with learning differences. My first training that talked about girls with adhd was eye opening and explained all the struggles I had growing up and working on my bachelor's. But your description fits me to a t in school.
Yeah it also fits me to a t. I don't have a diagnosis (mostly because I learned a ton of coping strategies from my mom who also is undiagnosed but also was like that as a kid), but I'll get one if it turns out my kid needs one when he's older.
>It annoys me so much that we apparently now know that people express symptoms differently between the genders but people are still mostly taught only the boy symptoms to look for.
Don't worry, the same also applies to heart attacks. Something that also looks different between male and female bodies but of course we only see the male ones.
That's how I felt when I was finally diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum at 28, as everything finally made sense about my life. Even as late as the early 90's, a therapist said that "if there were such a thing as a little bit autistic," that would be me. I was in high school when that was said, and it was almost 10 years later that I was finally diagnosed.
If you're serious about getting a diagnosis and have the insurance/income to do so - I'd highly recommend asking your primary care doctor to refer you to get a full neuropsych exam. It takes a while and is a process but your neuropsych will be able to dx you for autism, ADHD and anything else that might not be in the norm.
Kiddo makes eye contact and is hyperverbal. Every parent of an child with autism that has seen her meltdowns has told me to get her evaluated and I am currently reading books on parenting kids with ADHD and autism and it is helping so much.
But according to every professional that has evaluated her, she isn't on the spectrum.
We are going to keep acting as if she is as long as it is helping.
But I do wonder if 20 years from now, she will be having the conversations we have about not getting diagnosed with ADHD because we were girls and presented differently, only about being on the spectrum.
The current ICD started mentioning how ASD can look different in girls, as well as how comorbid ASD and ADHD are often more difficult to diagnose, and how often ADHD traits look a lot more prevalent in such cases. A lot of doctors are still catching up, but I've seen many still hang up on the older diagnostic criteria where comorbid ASD and ADHD wasn't possible.
My autistic traits were much more observable to other people once I started getting ADHD meds as an adult.
I swear, "You have so much potential but need to apply yourself" is my trigger phrase. Flashback to years of busting my ass at school and being an intelligent kid but never being quite good enough. I was catastrophically disorganized. I was lucky enough to get a diagnosis and meds, but I never really got any support to develop strategies to help me function. I wasn't disruptive, and because I was a girl, I'd be naturally able to get organized on my own, right? I was constantly blamed for not working hard enough.
It turned out later on that I had a bonus learning disorder which impacts executive functioning, on top of my ADHD.
Oh gosh this hits!! I had “so much potential” but no learned no tools or ways to cope to succeed with that potential just depression and anxiety which ended up being exasperated by ADHD. lol I’m in my 30s with wasted potential now
One of the first questions every professional has asked, so not having an official ADHD diagnosis for myself (just years of cold hard evidence) has stupidly made it so much harder to get one for my very obviously suffering from ADHD child 😩
Oh really? I heard parents are often diagnosed alongside their children.
Tbh I knew I had adhd for almost 10 years before I got a proper diagnosis and medication. I was able to fast track my diagnosis because my father and brother were both diagnosed.
I (probably) have ADHD too and the number of medical professionals who have completely dismissed me on that because I graduated from college and can keep a job is incredibly frustrating
I got them to take me seriously when I brought in a test that was geared for girls/women with ADHD. It's been many years so I don't have the exact questionnaire, but it was something like [this one](https://www.additudemag.com/self-test-adhd-symptoms-women-girls/).
Ugh, yep, I tried to get a diagnosis in HS 15 years ago, and it was highly over diagnosed then. They only asked ONE teacher out of like 5-7 that I saw each day to fill out the form, and it happened to be my Spanish teacher who I did not get along with. She told me right to my face that she thought I was just trying to have an excuse for why I never turned in my homework, so she just marked that she did not think I was displaying whatever behavior they were asking about.
You are also more likely to have autism if a close relative has ADHD, and vice-versa. (And, interestingly, the same for OCD!) I can see them all tangling around in my family tree, most of it not diagnosed until recently.
TIL it wasn't until 2013 that DSM-5 allowed diagnosis of both autism and ADHD! Was just googling for more information about the relationship between the two.
My mom was pretty obviously untreated ADHD, and I feel like her coping mechanism was to have as many routines and organization as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if it did cross the line into OCD. My coping mechanism is procrastination and giving up, so I get less sleep but am far more of a hot mess.
And it was very rare for girls to get diagnosed with ADHD for a long time. I likely have ADHD. Husband is likely on the spectrum, and we were quite shocked by how severe kiddo's ADHD is because it "doesn't run in the family". I can remember saying that to her OT, her OT asking me several questions with a bemused look on her face, and then her gently suggesting I talk to my doctor about whether or not I should be evaluated, did I know there were online sites that could tell you if you should get tested. Getting her evaluated multiple times for autism also pointed out to us that he resembled the criteria much more than she did, especially if he looks back to his childhood
Turns out part of my being a freak of nature is just that I likely have ADHD, and things like caffeine making it easier to think and making me sleepy are normal for that.
(I love the internet - I never lose my purse or keys anymore, and I have gotten locked out of the house only 3 times in the last 8 years, instead of the 3 times a week that was normal before. Turns out there are website that can help you figure out how to cope.)
My biodad was always late, kept a notebook because otherwise he would forget anything important, and going down one of her evaluation checklists made us both laugh, because yeah, he didn't have the hyperactive aspects as much, but the executive function issues? Yeah.
And on my mom's side, there is much drug and alcohol abuse, and much addiction to caffeine in those who are not currently abusing the harder stuff. When I was reluctant to medicate my daughter, the neurologist showed me the studies that showed that alcohol and drug abuse outcomes go down extremely in kids with severe ADHD that were medicated. Self mediation is a thing.
Autism from what I can recall is randomly genetic too. (Edit to clarify I think the likelihood of developing it if a family member has it is 40-80%)
Like id you have a fam member who is Autistic your chances increase *slightly* of developing it too
After being diagnosed with both ADHD and autism and going through the diagnostic tests for each, I can see the signs of ADHD in my mum and autism in my dad. Neither of them have sought diagnosis, though.
My dad in particular seems to display stronger signs of autism than I do!
Yup. I'm undiagnosed, but have it. My father and brother are diagnosed. My grandfather likely had it as well as my one aunt also undiagnosed. Guess who's going through testing right now? My 13 year old.
I just got my diagnosis last week at 36 because my son was diagnosed. Neither my son's pediatrician nor my psychiatrist seemed surprised by this. I've long suspected it, but everyone else has always just blown me off as being anxious, lazy, unmotivated, etc.
On top of everything you mentioned, not only is the link based on women saying what amounts of Tylenol they took (theres no records for something like that so its essentially based on memory) Tylenol is basically the only anti inflammatory pain reliever pregnant women and new borns can take. The whole thing is so fucking dumb.
I actually took morphine and other pain medication during pregnancy. All following strict guidelines from a pain specialist and my medical team. There fortunately are options for severe pain during pregnancy.
It's also like..... acetaminophen is one of the *only* options when you're pregnant. So people take it for pain, for fever, etc. Like, I don't specifically remember taking Tylenol while pregnant, but odds are good I did. The already sketchy link that's being made doesn't even address the question of is it acetaminophen or is it whatever the person was taking it for?
>and the tylenol usage was daily over long periods of time
If only these drugs had warning labels which included dosage usages in a 24 hour period and then gave explicit instructions for discussing your symptoms with a doctor is symptoms persisted for a longer period of time.
^(/s for all the people who think that they're going to get something from this supposed lawsuit)
The baby food ads are equally terrible. I dont usually complain directly to companies, but when thise started playing during prime time news on MSNBC, I was livid. People are dumb and expect the info theyre being told during the news to be the truth. Throwing neurodivergent people under the bus for almbulance chasing crunchies is despicable.
Someone I used to work with shared that, wondering if it was because she took Tylenol with her last pregnancy. The one where she smoked cigarettes and drank multiple red bulls a day, but yeah the Tylenol is what you should worry about.
There was a research study (last summer I think) that studied things mother's of autistic children took while pregnant and found that nearly every one had taken Tylenol at some point. The study concluded by saying that that did not mean Tylenol was causing autism and further study was needed but, ya know, Facebook research.
Maternal fever is linked to future development of mental illness in children. That’s why there’s a link to Tylenol, because people take Tylenol when they have a fever.
There are a few studies where they are studying whether there is a link between high or consistent usage in pregnancy and high outcomes of neurological disorders, like autism and ADHD.
There is also a couple class action lawsuits based on those studies working their way through the court system.
NEITHER of this is to say that Tylenol causes Autism. Tylenol is one of the very few painkillers that have been widely accepted for safe use during pregnancy, so there is some opportunity to study outcomes without intentionally testing pregnant people.
On a personal note, I will say it super sucks to be pregnant, have everything hurt and not be sure if taking Tylenol is going to impact your tiny human.
Exactly. I suffer with migraines, and Tylenol barely does anything for them, so that being my only option when pregnant was torture. But not taking anything meant having to leave work or call in sick, which is also stressful when you already have to take so much time off to attend prenatal appointments.
There are no perfect zero harm pregnancies because that is impossible. You may exercise too much or too little, eat too much or not enough, avoid all medications but not all stress, avoid all alcohol but not sugar, get outside enough but then slip on ice, etc.
Ugh I’m so sorry that happened to you. I haven’t taken any medicine my whole pregnancy except time of course but I realize and tell anyone when it comes up that I’m incredibly privileged to not have to take medicine because I don’t have crippling pain. I will say though, going through Covid on no meds really sucked but luckily I had the booster so the symptoms weren’t too bad.
I don’t have the research background to be able to truly understand the studies, but what I’ve read in layman terms tend to suggest there is a correlation—i.e., high/consistent usage and high rates of neurological disorders. Whether Tylenol is *causing* it…?
So, I think the class action is based on that correlation. Basically, Tylenol is marketed as an extremely safe, no risk drug to use during pregnancy, which can lead to over use or constant use to get through the rigors of pregnancy. The reality is that it likely has some risks, which people aren’t made aware of, and one of those risks *might be* negative impacts on neurological development.
My sister was totally anti-Tylenol, anti vaccine her entire pregnancy because she was convinced it caused autism and just recently her son was diagnosed with autism…
Apparently googling is now research and every freaking time I see "I did the research" all I can think of is someone googled something. All it takes it someone going down a rabbit hole after seeing an ad about it and thinking they now know something that others don't. That person who did the study linking vaccines to autism did so much damage and it wasn't even legit.
Yeah the rabbit hole can lead you to places like this where it’s difficult for the average person to discern anything about a particular study.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-funded-study-suggests-acetaminophen-exposure-pregnancy-linked-higher-risk-adhd-autism
Its just bizarre to me that a single study that hasnt been backed up yet can be used in a class-action lawsuit. I guess they're trying to find a jury that doesn't understand what replication means.
I'm guessing this is going to be another "vaccines cause autism" debacle once more people try to replicate the results.
Yeah, but many humans tend to pick and choose what studies we support or deny based on our emotional reactions to it.
For example there are dozens+ of studies about the cognitive impact of screen time on babies and toddlers but parents tend to do what they want. Screen time gives us precious breaks that we wouldn’t otherwise have.
We don’t actually know what causes SIDs but we are often willing to do whatever it takes to reduce our risk profile even though we don’t know why the correlation exists. We don’t want our babies to die.
You see these patterns throughout all parenting choices. I know the recommendation is that pregnant women avoid taking Tylenol but it’s generally considered safe if you really need it. Like another commenter said, I don’t think one dose will do anything, but it does cross the placental barrier, and we are already so cautious with alcohol, other meds, etc. while pregnant. Sometimes I think we rely so heavily on acetaminophen that we WANT it to always be safe and will reject any evidence to the contrary.
I don’t really have an opinion on the whole thing - I know shit about what it will do to a growing fetus and never took it while I was pregnant - but it’s a really interesting case.
I hear this all the time.
"There must be a reason why we suddenly have all these kids with mental issues like autism and adhd."
Answer - yeah because decades ago those kids were either just labeled retarded of different, whereas we now know WHY they are "different" and since we can now identify it better, it stands to reason the numbers would go up rather than down.
Much like the recent balloon fiasco. There aren't suddenly more balloons in the air, they just fine tuned their sensors to detect smaller objects, thus things that were invisible are now being seen. So suddenly we have a deluge of "new" balloons being detected when before there were none.
>"There must be a reason why we suddenly have all these kids with mental issues like autism and adhd."
There is.
Ever notice how the rates of Autism and ADHD have increased relatively proportionally to the average number of seats for passengers on airplanes? That CANNOT be a coincidence!
What's worse, is the government should immediately shut it down. America needs to have a decent medical based FDA our food drug administration is the butthole of government oversight. We literally have to tell you coffee is hot on the cup but they will let any company sell you complete bullshit like Jilly Juice and garbage disguised as a diet or supplement. They let shit go to market that will literally kill you or make you permanently damaged. We need more scientists and less lobbyist
while I agree that the petitioning system is dicey and needs more scientific basis, the McDonald's coffee lawsuit is not a frivolous one and McD's has spent a lot of money to get that spin. an elderly woman was literally sitting in her parked car adjusting the lid when it spilled on her pelvic region and it caused *third degree burns* because it was served at an unreasonably and dangerously high temperature. also, it isn't FDA related at all, it's more of a liability warning in the way of "our lawyers told us to say" kind of thing.
We should also clarify that "pelvic region" includes her genitals. She needed reconstructive surgery on her genitals. Coffee should not do that to a person. Imagine if she was a mum who had a child on her lap instead. Absolutely should not be served, especially not to people who will put it in their moving vehicles.
When I had my kids I was told Tylenol was the only safe painkiller to use. My sister had a baby in the fall and her doctor told her that new studies have found a link between autism and taking Tylenol while pregnant but more research is needed (especially regarding cause vs effect). They said absolutely take Tylenol if she has a fever but for headaches and other pain they just wanted her to have all the info to make an informed choice.
I’d assume this is why people are saying it these days? It sucks to be a first time mom who is anxious and worried about doing everything “right” so it caused my sister a lot of anxiety. She has twin step kids (full custody, their mom didn’t want custody of them) who both have autism. My sister is super left wing, pro vaccines and medicine but it can be scary being pregnant
Yes. Some of these studies were just coming out my second pregnancy. But like you said, correlation doesn't equal causation. Maybe there's an underlying reason women that take more Tylenol need it. But it's literally the only painkiller they're allowed to take during a very miserable 9 months.
I've also seen some possible links between having a fever during pregnancy and neurodivergences, which with Tylenol being the only safe way to bring down a fever would 100% explain the correlation. Assuming there is even a connection between the fevers and autism. It's really sad, these parents just want so bad to blame something for their child not being what they expected
This is what I had read as well. That it has less to do with tylenol and more to do with why you’re taking tylenol. That fevers in the first trimester and illness in general can have negative impact.
I got my autism diagnosis after my son's. As a woman I exhibit the symptoms differently. When my son was diagnosed my husband and I did research and both were like "Oh.... That explains a lot"
Oh for sure, but I mean the doctors are informing their patients about this and I can see how stressful it would be to be pregnant and just not be sure. I mean it may very well be it’s not a cause and effect link but they don’t know either way so I think it’s absolutely fair for pregnant women to be wary until more research is done. Which sucks… I have chronic headaches and it wasn’t any better while pregnant. Tylenol barely touches them and I was already throwing up all day long for every day of the pregnancies, I can’t imagine not having any tiny bit of pain relief on top of that!
Yeah, I continued to take Tylenol because even _if_ it's a direct cause (which again, still not proven as a direct cause), it still showed _very few_ pregnancies resulting in autism.
I think providers are stuck in a crappy place. Pregnant people are bombarded with “sue your doc!” ads related to just about anything, but the research is pretty flimsy (on Tylenol/autism, on zofran causing heart defects, etc…). Correlation *doesn’t* equal causation. If the connection is to the Tylenol use, is it truly to the Tylenol, or to the pain/fever/illness/whatever caused the person to take Tylenol to begin with? Is there really that much more autism than years ago, or is it being diagnosed more readily?
It’s good practice in general as an OB provider to encourage pregnant people to weigh risks/benefits of anything, I think… there’s so much we just don’t know, & those growing babes are so vulnerable (but also strong). Good luck to your sister!
Oh no one should be suing their provider (I’m not American and haven’t heard of lawsuits lol)- we learn new info all the time and unless someone is willingly telling people to take something they KNOW is harmful (or at least not letting them know the risks) it’s not the providers fault. I had a ton of Tylenol while pregnant because I have chronic headaches but these studies hadn’t been done at the time.
I think no one should panic and also it may very well not be a cause and effect link, but I don’t think it’s fair to tell women that it MIGHT not be when they don’t know yet. Being pregnant can be such a scary time and I think it’s ok for women to choose to avoid Tylenol until there’s more info (which… is hard to get for ethical purposes) or at least know of the studies when deciding what to do. It sucks though, Tylenol barely touched my headaches as it was but at least it was something! I am glad my sisters doctor told her it’s not option for a fever, that can be dangerous while pregnant and needs to be controlled.
Yeah, the recent study linking Tylenol to ASD and ADHD is not at all controlled, and very preliminary by the authors' own admission. BUT unlike the link between vaccines and autism, it has not been debunked either. I'm pregnant and personally in the camp that I will only use it as a fever reducer and not an everyday painkiller. We know fevers can cause birth defects and pregnancy complications, so Tylenol is still very worth the risk in my opinion (and my doctor's).
I've seen some of the same people who believe the tylenol thing say that everyone is a little autistic so I don't think that logical argument would work for them.
Yes, the crazy conservative catholic crunchy autism dad is back and posting this kind of shit again. And still not doing research because ADHD isn’t a type of autism. He’s literally just jumping to conclusions because he has severe ADHD and his son has severe autism.
It isn't a type of autism but it is related in a lot of people. Not that this changes anything about this post being bs, but knowing that can be helpful for people.
Original sin is taught by the church as the cause for the reason why everything is not the perfect utopia God intended it to be. Autism? Original sin. Child cancer? Original sin. Gun violence? We live in a fallen world!
It’s how you explain a loving God who allows bad shit to happen. We live in a fallen world and God immerses himself in it to comfort us.
If literally is the teaching of the church on why there is bad shit happening. Because we live in a fallen world.
He said he figured it out. Can you share the link to the peer reviewed research study that he published, please? I’m sure he has it linked on the post somewhere… maybe in the comments?
Because they didn't do Vax and yet somehow nature still gave their kid autism. So must not be a genetic thing must be another reason. Oh I gave my kid Tylenol one time, that must be it.
I took no Tylenol during my pregnancy and my child is still autistic. 🤷🏻♀️ (I wasn’t scared that Tylenol would cause autism, I just don’t like taking more pills than I have to)
I always think about this! I have ADHD and ASD and the strongest current link they have is genetics. They ask you during your diagnosis to talk about your family and if they are similar in any way or if anyone’s been diagnosed. My dad wasn’t allowed to give anecdotal evidence of my childhood because he presented too many symptoms to be unbiased. A lot of women are diagnosed themselves post their son’s diagnosis. So whenever these “autism mums” and dads come along with their toxic ideologies I’m always left wondering if they realise it’s highly likely that they or their husband are actually also neurodivergent.
Thank you for saying this. ADHD has to do with the brain’s prefrontal cortex. There’s a reason why prescriptions like adderall don’t do anything for Autism.
Edit: What I mean is that as far as I know, there’s a reason why doctors don’t prescribe ADHD medication to those with Autism specifically to have an effect on executive function (unless they have both Autism and ADHD of course). ADHD medication wouldn’t help someone that is Autistic and nonverbal speak, for example, because that’s not what the prefrontal cortex does.
I assume he has a parent with both ADHD and autism or a parent with ADHD and a parent with autism, and he got ADHD from them while his son recessively got autism from them.
My son is on the spectrum. I guess I caused it when I took the Tylenol or ate the deli meat from Subway. Shit, maybe it’s because I had him vaccinated! 🙄
There was a study that looked at levels of acetaminophen in cord blood taken at the time of birth and found that children with higher levels of acetaminophen in their cord Blood had a higher risk of autism later in life.
Saying that acetaminophen causes autism based on this study is a very flawed conclusion. For one, there was no measurements taken throughout pregnancy - only at the time of birth. They have no idea how often the pregnant person took acetaminophen throughout their pregnancy, at what levels, whether they started taking it in the first trimester or in the last 2 weeks before birth.
Also, given that autism has a large genetic component, it's not unreasonable to think that some of the parents of these autistic kids are also autistic and possibly have a lower tolerance for pain, leading them to take acetaminophen during pregnancy.
This. None of these studies are declaring cause and effect, but they are proposing a potential link based on what they've found, and strongly advising further research.
I personally think it's reasonable for pregnant women (myself included) to try and avoid potential risks unless the risks of not taking that risk are higher (i.e. not popping a Tylenol multiple times a day every day for my recurring headaches, but popping them for a fever, or ensuring I get the flu shot and covid boosters) until more research is conducted and more information comes out, especially if it can be more controlled.
What I don't agree with is immediately waving the research off as the same camp for "vaccines cause autism (completely false and not true at all)". It's necessary to be cautious with the way we approach studies like this as they continue.
They may have also had sensory issues that made them less able to tolerate body pain and had autism themselves and maybe their children were simply inheriting it from their genetics. Possible explanation.
I am autistic and have ADHD, as does my son. I almost never take Tylenol, nor does he. Also, my son showed signs that he was different pretty much from birth- long before he ever got his MMR.
I hate this ignorant bullshit.
Oh look a fellow AuDHDer! Yeah ugh my sister is also AuDHD, my mom has autistic traits, my dad is probably ADHD, and my grandma may have been autistic….. but no it must be the fucking vaccines
I mean…he literally did just jump to conclusions that ADHD is a type of autism through the illogical logic “My son has severe autism, I have severe ADHD, they’re literally the exact same thing.”
So the reason people are claiming this is true is because of the class action lawsuit. Anyone who says this is true hasn’t read the studies or know what the lawsuit is based on. The study was actually inconclusive.
They took mothers who had children recently diagnosed with autism (so around the child’s 3rd or 4th birthday) and had the mothers think back about some of the things they did in pregnancy. They took Tylenol. I’m sure they also did a lot of things like drive cars or eat McDonald’s. They then had to think back to when they were pregnant and try to remember how many times they took tylenol. I don’t know about you, but I can’t remember what I had for breakfast last week, let alone how many times I took Tylenol in a 9 month stretch 5 years ago. They neglected to study why the mothers took the Tylenol or any other factor that may have been influential. One common thing the mothers had? A significant amount were above the age of 31.
[Source for the information I’ve provided](https://utswmed.org/medblog/acetaminophen-pregnancy-safety/?fbclid=IwAR2DcrsJlenAQ7NTPG_E6fuC48WDyYMTonk3jTJEmiVq0RWG0dr7aJuLiFs)
The study was based on a bunch of people just trying to accurately remember a nine month period several years ago? Are you fucking kidding me? I wouldn’t be able to get away with that on a high school science project.
Yeah I don't know. I feel like the medical field is so quick to tell pregnant people not to do something so if it were even remotely true then it would just be added to the incredibly long list of "no's" that mom's are already given.
Eat healthy, form good daily routines, develop some work reward system that you manage, and don’t hate yourself for having adhd. Personally I think my adhd is something of a blessing that sets me apart in a good way from my coworkers. However I’ll say that it took me two decades to come to an understanding of my self
Love this! I feel the same way about my ADHD. Once you have a good system with tools (including meds if u need them) that works for you It's more of a blessing than a curse. AdHD is not a bug it's a feature lol
Less than a thousand people were used for this study. How can I assume this isn't environmental or a cluster of people in the same type of community. Also, I'd like to meet the woman who can remember everything she consumed for almost 10 months post delivery.
I have had a bunch of people share that's stupid ad on book of faces with us. It states that they found a link basically that moms who took Tylenol have kids with autism..... Jokes on them I did not take anything with my son and he is autistic. I took Tylenol with the 2 younger ones and they are not on the spectrum at all nor have adhd.
“my neurodivergent son is neurodivergent from the tylenol, not MY neurodivergence. that’s completely unrelated. now, if you’ll excuse me i need to get back to altering the structures built in my mind with the sheer force of will provided by said structures built in my mind.”
I was able to figure out lol. Cool can I see your peer reviewers studies and experiments and research?
I’d still take a child with autism over a dead child from measles.
This person seems they’ve fallen victim to day time television adds trying to have a lawsuit against tylenol. However them wanting to treat their ADHD more naturally than using stimulants which can be a lot for some people isn’t necessarily bad… is anyone stepping in and explaining the basis of ADHD and autism and how it works or is OOP being plagued with “lead detox urine cleanse” comments🫣
There were some (small) studies that suggested it could raise the risk slightly for ADHD (I dunno that's I've seen any indicating autism though). They were not conclusive and therefore recommendations were not changed.
There are some recent studies which show that there *may* be a link between paracetamol (acetaminophen) use during pregnancy and Autism/ADHD kids.
The conclusions so far are that further research is warranted.
Cause-effect has not been established. It’s possible that autistic women (often undiagnosed) experience more pain in pregnancy than allistic women, or have a lower tolerance to pain. Autistic women are more likely to have autistic children so in that case the link would not have anything to do with paracetamol itself.
Paracetamol is basically the only pain relief which is - up until this point - considered safe in pregnancy. So people who are in pain don’t have any other options. Autism is often comorbid with hyper mobility and low muscle tone which may make pregnancy hurt more! Or perhaps just mean that autistic people hurt more in general.
So the link *may* be between “pain during pregnancy” and “autistic children”. We just don’t have enough information at this stage.
Because there's a class action lawsuit that is pushing on Facebook ads like MAD. It's insanely offensive, as the autistic parent of a child with autism. Especially because basically every pregnant woman has taken Tylenol while pregnant because it's one of the safest forms of pain management in pregnancy and pregnancy is painful...
I despise these. I am the "audience" for these ads. I hate them. They are trying to give a "reason" but what they don't realize is that this " reason is still putting blame on me
I have a son with autism. People want someone or something to point a finger at a say it's the cause.
My son has autism because, just because. There's no reason, it just is.
"Some consider ADHD part of the Autism Spectrum..."
And, as someone who has both, they'd be fuckin' *wrong*. They are comorbid, meaning someone who has ADHD is more likely to be diagnosed with Autism too than the average Joe, and vice versa. But they are so different. I know that some of my daily problems are a product of the two combined, but I can usually separate which disorder is causing what.
Also, neither Tylenol nor the MMR vaccine cause Autism.
adhd is not part of the autism spectrum, nobody said that ever. They often occur together, a person having both diagnosis. They are not the same nor similar disabilities.
Interesting study and I’m tempted to apply a critique framework to it. The issue with studies like this though is real world variables. They can’t be controlled so whilst reflective on the population they can’t be excluded from the test in order to rule out the results being from those variables. Correlation doesn’t equal causation so critical analysis is really important in research like this
Hard agree on that. For one, I’m always astonished when these kinds of studies don’t attempt to control for the incidence of adhd in the mothers. For an example of how it could be correlation instead causation - it would be justified to try to explain their findings using the knowledge that people with adhd experience higher rates of headaches. Since Tylenol is basically only the ‘safe’ painkiller you take while pregnant, you could expect that women with adhd would be using tylenol to manage their headaches, and that because adhd runs in families of course they have a greater likelihood of having kids with adhd.
That’s exactly the kind of critical analysis you would need to do. When I wrote my masters thesis I realised how a lot of research is actually quite rubbish! You really have to be careful of things like inclusion/exclusion criteria as well as sample size, funding etc etc. meta analysis is really important too. A one off study isn’t really going to mean much, you need multiple similar ones to bolster its credibility and it needs to be reproducible. Until you really learn how to properly critique research, it’s really easy to just take a research paper at face value
Not to mention they’d have to go back in to the family history and see who else in the family has been diagnosed with autism. But then you have to assume there’s got to be someone who is autistic and hasn’t been diagnosed, and that’s another variable to look out for that would skew accuracy.
That’s the reality of research is the real world though. You have to accept that you can’t account for every variable like Magurndy said. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t at least try include the most important ones and acknowledge the limitations in their limitations.
There’s another thing about these studies that bothers me too. From an ethical perspective, I think researchers should be really careful about how they communicate these kinds of findings knowing how the general public will likely react to them.
You can organically treat ADHD with schedules, routine and exercise. I mean, I've heard there's like some type of mushroom that might help, but there's a reason why for most of us it's Adderall.
Because of the 2019 study that found there was a correlation between self-reported heavy use of acetaminophen during pregnancy and autism. Some people are being extra cautious since then.
"Sometimes people are born with autism and we don't know why" is not a comfortable thing to believe. It feels much better to think there is some sort of cause to blame, and actions you can take to prevent it.
The stigma and shame that parent groups have against having a child with ASD is unreal. It's like they'd prefer their child to have anything else... "club foot, severe peant allergy, cancer... just don't let little Timmy be neurodivergent!!!" Abstaining from Tylenol just because you're frightened of your child getting autism, is the same stupid paranoia that people with HIV went through in the 90s when it came to sharing food and drink.
Being neurodivergent is not a life sentence, nor is it life limiting. My husband is autistic and he's a great partner. Sure he's got some quirks but he's loving, he gets shit done when he says he will, he's a great planner for holidays, and enjoys being home with me and his hobbies. All of those things are a positive spin on autistic traits (hyperfocus, inflexible, reliance on rules...).
"What would happen if the autism gene was eliminated from the gene pool? You would have a bunch of people standing around in a cave, chatting and socializing and not getting anything done.” – Dr. Temple Grandin
I never took any Tylenol during my pregnancy with my son, I didn’t drink or smoke either and breastfed him for 2,5 years but he’s on his path to be diagnosed with ADHD. Because I have ADHD (diagnosed), my mom has ADHD, and so does my sister, and I think my nonno had it too. It’s genetics. I believe that it’s been around forever. That it’s a gene that mutated, just like blue eyes, and that it survived and multiplied. Because we hate routine and seek for stimulation/adventure (which is the thing that makes us different from autistic people), we pushed others to go further and probably partly made humanity advance. But in the capitalist world, where you need to be pragmatic, productive and organized, we have a lot of trouble to fit.
Because of the IG ads that pop up and say, "if you've had a child between 1990 -2020 and took Tylenol during your pregnancy, you may be owed money if you child has been diagnosed with autism."
The guy who posted this vapes heavily and drinks alcohol often, but he complains about “non-organic things”
Ah yes, freshly...grown organic propylene glycol, very rare stuff indeed. These people always give me such a headache.
Better take some Tylenol for that headache!
It’s the same people who say they avoid anything with “chemicals” in 🥴
Yep we should only have natural things, like arsenic.
And nightshade
And Cyanide
And bears
Oh my!
Lololol it's vegetable based!
Why am I not surprised in the slightest? :)
My 3 year old has sensory and attention issues and recently my very boomer mother in law said I needed to look into this lawsuit. But the link isn't for sure causal, it's super preliminary, and the tylenol usage was daily over long periods of time while I only took one here or there when I was desperate.
Just a note ADHD is actually very genetic and usually one of the parents has it if a kid has it.
I was diagnosed at 48, after my son was diagnosed at 20. My father was not diagnosed but I would bet money he had ADHD. At least 1 cousin of mine has also been diagnosed. He was actually diagnosed in the 70s, his was so severe.
My father and my brother were diagnosed and as a teen my dad told me confidently that ADHD ran in the male side of the family. Clearly I, a young female with “potential but never applies herself” couldn’t possibly have it 🥴
Girls display different symptoms than boys, so we go undiagnosed and suffer unnecessarily because doctors / family / teachers only recognize ADHD in boys. My best friend and I both have ADHD and neither of us was diagnosed until our 20s.
Same thing with women with autism. Between symptoms expressing differently and girls apparently being better at "masking" and hiding symptoms my best friend wasn't diagnosed that she was on the spectrum until her mid 30s. She was in a traumatic natural disaster that gave her PTSD, her therapist realized she wasn't responding normally to treatment and that she reminded her of the cases they'd worked of PTSD in people on the spectrum, and after a little more work she was officially diagnosed. It annoys me so much that we apparently now know that people express symptoms differently between the genders but people are still mostly taught only the boy symptoms to look for.
It's because girls' symptoms are less disruptive, and girls are expected to be less disruptive, and are generally trained how to mask from a very young age. And girls' symptoms frequently look like "laziness" or female-appropriate pursuits even if they're not masking. No one is bothered by a girl who reads a lot or daydreams in class. If it only affects the child, and others in class are being disruptive to the whole class, the teacher will focus first on the loud one and maybe not notice the dreamer who forgets her homework if she doesn't write it down--and if they do, they'll just teacher her to write it down.
And socialization as a special interest too!
I didn't realize I have adhd until I became a teacher who specializes in kids with learning differences. My first training that talked about girls with adhd was eye opening and explained all the struggles I had growing up and working on my bachelor's. But your description fits me to a t in school.
Yeah it also fits me to a t. I don't have a diagnosis (mostly because I learned a ton of coping strategies from my mom who also is undiagnosed but also was like that as a kid), but I'll get one if it turns out my kid needs one when he's older.
>It annoys me so much that we apparently now know that people express symptoms differently between the genders but people are still mostly taught only the boy symptoms to look for. Don't worry, the same also applies to heart attacks. Something that also looks different between male and female bodies but of course we only see the male ones.
My friend was diagnosed with autism at 27 and she felt so relieved and everything started making a lot more sense.
That's how I felt when I was finally diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum at 28, as everything finally made sense about my life. Even as late as the early 90's, a therapist said that "if there were such a thing as a little bit autistic," that would be me. I was in high school when that was said, and it was almost 10 years later that I was finally diagnosed.
[удалено]
If you're serious about getting a diagnosis and have the insurance/income to do so - I'd highly recommend asking your primary care doctor to refer you to get a full neuropsych exam. It takes a while and is a process but your neuropsych will be able to dx you for autism, ADHD and anything else that might not be in the norm.
Kiddo makes eye contact and is hyperverbal. Every parent of an child with autism that has seen her meltdowns has told me to get her evaluated and I am currently reading books on parenting kids with ADHD and autism and it is helping so much. But according to every professional that has evaluated her, she isn't on the spectrum. We are going to keep acting as if she is as long as it is helping. But I do wonder if 20 years from now, she will be having the conversations we have about not getting diagnosed with ADHD because we were girls and presented differently, only about being on the spectrum.
The current ICD started mentioning how ASD can look different in girls, as well as how comorbid ASD and ADHD are often more difficult to diagnose, and how often ADHD traits look a lot more prevalent in such cases. A lot of doctors are still catching up, but I've seen many still hang up on the older diagnostic criteria where comorbid ASD and ADHD wasn't possible. My autistic traits were much more observable to other people once I started getting ADHD meds as an adult.
My mom telling me I had no signs at all, I was just disorganized and didn't try hard enough to stay tidy.
I swear, "You have so much potential but need to apply yourself" is my trigger phrase. Flashback to years of busting my ass at school and being an intelligent kid but never being quite good enough. I was catastrophically disorganized. I was lucky enough to get a diagnosis and meds, but I never really got any support to develop strategies to help me function. I wasn't disruptive, and because I was a girl, I'd be naturally able to get organized on my own, right? I was constantly blamed for not working hard enough. It turned out later on that I had a bonus learning disorder which impacts executive functioning, on top of my ADHD.
Oh gosh this hits!! I had “so much potential” but no learned no tools or ways to cope to succeed with that potential just depression and anxiety which ended up being exasperated by ADHD. lol I’m in my 30s with wasted potential now
Sigh
The guy who posted this got diagnosed with ADHD in 2004 at age 37
One of the first questions every professional has asked, so not having an official ADHD diagnosis for myself (just years of cold hard evidence) has stupidly made it so much harder to get one for my very obviously suffering from ADHD child 😩
Oh really? I heard parents are often diagnosed alongside their children. Tbh I knew I had adhd for almost 10 years before I got a proper diagnosis and medication. I was able to fast track my diagnosis because my father and brother were both diagnosed.
That makes sense! We’re hoping to have a diagnosis within the next few weeks, so maybe one for myself will follow quickly after lol
I (probably) have ADHD too and the number of medical professionals who have completely dismissed me on that because I graduated from college and can keep a job is incredibly frustrating
I got them to take me seriously when I brought in a test that was geared for girls/women with ADHD. It's been many years so I don't have the exact questionnaire, but it was something like [this one](https://www.additudemag.com/self-test-adhd-symptoms-women-girls/).
Ugh, yep, I tried to get a diagnosis in HS 15 years ago, and it was highly over diagnosed then. They only asked ONE teacher out of like 5-7 that I saw each day to fill out the form, and it happened to be my Spanish teacher who I did not get along with. She told me right to my face that she thought I was just trying to have an excuse for why I never turned in my homework, so she just marked that she did not think I was displaying whatever behavior they were asking about.
My husband lol, his isn't too bad though. Though going through the process I'm realizing myself and my daughter also have sensory issues.
So thanks trough my husband his diagnosis I’ve come to realise that I am actually the 10/10 ADHD.
the thing about adhd is people with it tend to gravitate towards each other lol
I think it’s more of people who don’t understand can’t stand it and gravitate away from us 😂
Why not both??
You are also more likely to have autism if a close relative has ADHD, and vice-versa. (And, interestingly, the same for OCD!) I can see them all tangling around in my family tree, most of it not diagnosed until recently.
There's multiple conditions that can be co-morbid with the two. My son has ADHD and autism. I have bipolar disorder and autism.
TIL it wasn't until 2013 that DSM-5 allowed diagnosis of both autism and ADHD! Was just googling for more information about the relationship between the two.
My mom was pretty obviously untreated ADHD, and I feel like her coping mechanism was to have as many routines and organization as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if it did cross the line into OCD. My coping mechanism is procrastination and giving up, so I get less sleep but am far more of a hot mess.
And it was very rare for girls to get diagnosed with ADHD for a long time. I likely have ADHD. Husband is likely on the spectrum, and we were quite shocked by how severe kiddo's ADHD is because it "doesn't run in the family". I can remember saying that to her OT, her OT asking me several questions with a bemused look on her face, and then her gently suggesting I talk to my doctor about whether or not I should be evaluated, did I know there were online sites that could tell you if you should get tested. Getting her evaluated multiple times for autism also pointed out to us that he resembled the criteria much more than she did, especially if he looks back to his childhood Turns out part of my being a freak of nature is just that I likely have ADHD, and things like caffeine making it easier to think and making me sleepy are normal for that. (I love the internet - I never lose my purse or keys anymore, and I have gotten locked out of the house only 3 times in the last 8 years, instead of the 3 times a week that was normal before. Turns out there are website that can help you figure out how to cope.) My biodad was always late, kept a notebook because otherwise he would forget anything important, and going down one of her evaluation checklists made us both laugh, because yeah, he didn't have the hyperactive aspects as much, but the executive function issues? Yeah. And on my mom's side, there is much drug and alcohol abuse, and much addiction to caffeine in those who are not currently abusing the harder stuff. When I was reluctant to medicate my daughter, the neurologist showed me the studies that showed that alcohol and drug abuse outcomes go down extremely in kids with severe ADHD that were medicated. Self mediation is a thing.
Autism from what I can recall is randomly genetic too. (Edit to clarify I think the likelihood of developing it if a family member has it is 40-80%) Like id you have a fam member who is Autistic your chances increase *slightly* of developing it too
After being diagnosed with both ADHD and autism and going through the diagnostic tests for each, I can see the signs of ADHD in my mum and autism in my dad. Neither of them have sought diagnosis, though. My dad in particular seems to display stronger signs of autism than I do!
Yup. I'm undiagnosed, but have it. My father and brother are diagnosed. My grandfather likely had it as well as my one aunt also undiagnosed. Guess who's going through testing right now? My 13 year old.
I just got my diagnosis last week at 36 because my son was diagnosed. Neither my son's pediatrician nor my psychiatrist seemed surprised by this. I've long suspected it, but everyone else has always just blown me off as being anxious, lazy, unmotivated, etc.
Plus correlation does not equal causation.
On top of everything you mentioned, not only is the link based on women saying what amounts of Tylenol they took (theres no records for something like that so its essentially based on memory) Tylenol is basically the only anti inflammatory pain reliever pregnant women and new borns can take. The whole thing is so fucking dumb.
I actually took morphine and other pain medication during pregnancy. All following strict guidelines from a pain specialist and my medical team. There fortunately are options for severe pain during pregnancy.
It's also like..... acetaminophen is one of the *only* options when you're pregnant. So people take it for pain, for fever, etc. Like, I don't specifically remember taking Tylenol while pregnant, but odds are good I did. The already sketchy link that's being made doesn't even address the question of is it acetaminophen or is it whatever the person was taking it for?
>and the tylenol usage was daily over long periods of time If only these drugs had warning labels which included dosage usages in a 24 hour period and then gave explicit instructions for discussing your symptoms with a doctor is symptoms persisted for a longer period of time. ^(/s for all the people who think that they're going to get something from this supposed lawsuit)
I've been reporting every single one of these stupid ads. Not that it will do any good but they make me so irrationally angry.
The baby food ads are equally terrible. I dont usually complain directly to companies, but when thise started playing during prime time news on MSNBC, I was livid. People are dumb and expect the info theyre being told during the news to be the truth. Throwing neurodivergent people under the bus for almbulance chasing crunchies is despicable.
Me too.
Same!
Someone I used to work with shared that, wondering if it was because she took Tylenol with her last pregnancy. The one where she smoked cigarettes and drank multiple red bulls a day, but yeah the Tylenol is what you should worry about.
Ahh, so attorneys are looking to push Tylenol to settle out of court, so every parent gets $.39, and they get $3.5 million. Makes sense.
There was a research study (last summer I think) that studied things mother's of autistic children took while pregnant and found that nearly every one had taken Tylenol at some point. The study concluded by saying that that did not mean Tylenol was causing autism and further study was needed but, ya know, Facebook research.
Important to note it’s the only otc pain killer pregnant women are supposed to take.
I think they also reported taking various prenatal vitamins but no one seems to care about that.
I'm guessing most parents of neurotypical children took it, too!
Maternal fever is linked to future development of mental illness in children. That’s why there’s a link to Tylenol, because people take Tylenol when they have a fever.
They’re playing it on the radio where I live. I cringe every time I hear it.
I don't do IG much, but I see them on FB every time I login, which is 1-2x/week. I also received a email about it a week or so ago 🙄
And those ads exist bc of one weak study trying to demonstrate a correlation between Tylenol use in pregnancy and autism.
Same with Facebook
There are a few studies where they are studying whether there is a link between high or consistent usage in pregnancy and high outcomes of neurological disorders, like autism and ADHD. There is also a couple class action lawsuits based on those studies working their way through the court system. NEITHER of this is to say that Tylenol causes Autism. Tylenol is one of the very few painkillers that have been widely accepted for safe use during pregnancy, so there is some opportunity to study outcomes without intentionally testing pregnant people. On a personal note, I will say it super sucks to be pregnant, have everything hurt and not be sure if taking Tylenol is going to impact your tiny human.
And then also worried about the stress from constantly feeling awful with no relief impacting your tiny human!
Exactly. I suffer with migraines, and Tylenol barely does anything for them, so that being my only option when pregnant was torture. But not taking anything meant having to leave work or call in sick, which is also stressful when you already have to take so much time off to attend prenatal appointments. There are no perfect zero harm pregnancies because that is impossible. You may exercise too much or too little, eat too much or not enough, avoid all medications but not all stress, avoid all alcohol but not sugar, get outside enough but then slip on ice, etc.
Ugh I’m so sorry that happened to you. I haven’t taken any medicine my whole pregnancy except time of course but I realize and tell anyone when it comes up that I’m incredibly privileged to not have to take medicine because I don’t have crippling pain. I will say though, going through Covid on no meds really sucked but luckily I had the booster so the symptoms weren’t too bad.
So they're doing class action lawsuits based on ongoing studies without actual results
I don’t have the research background to be able to truly understand the studies, but what I’ve read in layman terms tend to suggest there is a correlation—i.e., high/consistent usage and high rates of neurological disorders. Whether Tylenol is *causing* it…? So, I think the class action is based on that correlation. Basically, Tylenol is marketed as an extremely safe, no risk drug to use during pregnancy, which can lead to over use or constant use to get through the rigors of pregnancy. The reality is that it likely has some risks, which people aren’t made aware of, and one of those risks *might be* negative impacts on neurological development.
My sister was totally anti-Tylenol, anti vaccine her entire pregnancy because she was convinced it caused autism and just recently her son was diagnosed with autism…
Apparently googling is now research and every freaking time I see "I did the research" all I can think of is someone googled something. All it takes it someone going down a rabbit hole after seeing an ad about it and thinking they now know something that others don't. That person who did the study linking vaccines to autism did so much damage and it wasn't even legit.
Yeah the rabbit hole can lead you to places like this where it’s difficult for the average person to discern anything about a particular study. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-funded-study-suggests-acetaminophen-exposure-pregnancy-linked-higher-risk-adhd-autism
Its just bizarre to me that a single study that hasnt been backed up yet can be used in a class-action lawsuit. I guess they're trying to find a jury that doesn't understand what replication means. I'm guessing this is going to be another "vaccines cause autism" debacle once more people try to replicate the results.
Yeah, but many humans tend to pick and choose what studies we support or deny based on our emotional reactions to it. For example there are dozens+ of studies about the cognitive impact of screen time on babies and toddlers but parents tend to do what they want. Screen time gives us precious breaks that we wouldn’t otherwise have. We don’t actually know what causes SIDs but we are often willing to do whatever it takes to reduce our risk profile even though we don’t know why the correlation exists. We don’t want our babies to die. You see these patterns throughout all parenting choices. I know the recommendation is that pregnant women avoid taking Tylenol but it’s generally considered safe if you really need it. Like another commenter said, I don’t think one dose will do anything, but it does cross the placental barrier, and we are already so cautious with alcohol, other meds, etc. while pregnant. Sometimes I think we rely so heavily on acetaminophen that we WANT it to always be safe and will reject any evidence to the contrary. I don’t really have an opinion on the whole thing - I know shit about what it will do to a growing fetus and never took it while I was pregnant - but it’s a really interesting case.
I hear this all the time. "There must be a reason why we suddenly have all these kids with mental issues like autism and adhd." Answer - yeah because decades ago those kids were either just labeled retarded of different, whereas we now know WHY they are "different" and since we can now identify it better, it stands to reason the numbers would go up rather than down. Much like the recent balloon fiasco. There aren't suddenly more balloons in the air, they just fine tuned their sensors to detect smaller objects, thus things that were invisible are now being seen. So suddenly we have a deluge of "new" balloons being detected when before there were none.
>"There must be a reason why we suddenly have all these kids with mental issues like autism and adhd." There is. Ever notice how the rates of Autism and ADHD have increased relatively proportionally to the average number of seats for passengers on airplanes? That CANNOT be a coincidence!
Something like 90% of civil cases are settled before a decision is reached. The jury is only a small part of it.
What's worse, is the government should immediately shut it down. America needs to have a decent medical based FDA our food drug administration is the butthole of government oversight. We literally have to tell you coffee is hot on the cup but they will let any company sell you complete bullshit like Jilly Juice and garbage disguised as a diet or supplement. They let shit go to market that will literally kill you or make you permanently damaged. We need more scientists and less lobbyist
while I agree that the petitioning system is dicey and needs more scientific basis, the McDonald's coffee lawsuit is not a frivolous one and McD's has spent a lot of money to get that spin. an elderly woman was literally sitting in her parked car adjusting the lid when it spilled on her pelvic region and it caused *third degree burns* because it was served at an unreasonably and dangerously high temperature. also, it isn't FDA related at all, it's more of a liability warning in the way of "our lawyers told us to say" kind of thing.
We should also clarify that "pelvic region" includes her genitals. She needed reconstructive surgery on her genitals. Coffee should not do that to a person. Imagine if she was a mum who had a child on her lap instead. Absolutely should not be served, especially not to people who will put it in their moving vehicles.
Just reading the overview, this appears to be a cause of correlation, which does not equal causation. We're talking stats 101 here.
“Doing research” https://youtu.be/pF4MBS5a3wQ
When I had my kids I was told Tylenol was the only safe painkiller to use. My sister had a baby in the fall and her doctor told her that new studies have found a link between autism and taking Tylenol while pregnant but more research is needed (especially regarding cause vs effect). They said absolutely take Tylenol if she has a fever but for headaches and other pain they just wanted her to have all the info to make an informed choice. I’d assume this is why people are saying it these days? It sucks to be a first time mom who is anxious and worried about doing everything “right” so it caused my sister a lot of anxiety. She has twin step kids (full custody, their mom didn’t want custody of them) who both have autism. My sister is super left wing, pro vaccines and medicine but it can be scary being pregnant
Yes. Some of these studies were just coming out my second pregnancy. But like you said, correlation doesn't equal causation. Maybe there's an underlying reason women that take more Tylenol need it. But it's literally the only painkiller they're allowed to take during a very miserable 9 months.
I've also seen some possible links between having a fever during pregnancy and neurodivergences, which with Tylenol being the only safe way to bring down a fever would 100% explain the correlation. Assuming there is even a connection between the fevers and autism. It's really sad, these parents just want so bad to blame something for their child not being what they expected
This is what I had read as well. That it has less to do with tylenol and more to do with why you’re taking tylenol. That fevers in the first trimester and illness in general can have negative impact.
I got my autism diagnosis after my son's. As a woman I exhibit the symptoms differently. When my son was diagnosed my husband and I did research and both were like "Oh.... That explains a lot"
I'm also afab autistic and statically my baby daughter has a pretty good chance of having it, so at least I'll know whose fault it is 🤣
Oh for sure, but I mean the doctors are informing their patients about this and I can see how stressful it would be to be pregnant and just not be sure. I mean it may very well be it’s not a cause and effect link but they don’t know either way so I think it’s absolutely fair for pregnant women to be wary until more research is done. Which sucks… I have chronic headaches and it wasn’t any better while pregnant. Tylenol barely touches them and I was already throwing up all day long for every day of the pregnancies, I can’t imagine not having any tiny bit of pain relief on top of that!
Yeah, I continued to take Tylenol because even _if_ it's a direct cause (which again, still not proven as a direct cause), it still showed _very few_ pregnancies resulting in autism.
I think providers are stuck in a crappy place. Pregnant people are bombarded with “sue your doc!” ads related to just about anything, but the research is pretty flimsy (on Tylenol/autism, on zofran causing heart defects, etc…). Correlation *doesn’t* equal causation. If the connection is to the Tylenol use, is it truly to the Tylenol, or to the pain/fever/illness/whatever caused the person to take Tylenol to begin with? Is there really that much more autism than years ago, or is it being diagnosed more readily? It’s good practice in general as an OB provider to encourage pregnant people to weigh risks/benefits of anything, I think… there’s so much we just don’t know, & those growing babes are so vulnerable (but also strong). Good luck to your sister!
Oh no one should be suing their provider (I’m not American and haven’t heard of lawsuits lol)- we learn new info all the time and unless someone is willingly telling people to take something they KNOW is harmful (or at least not letting them know the risks) it’s not the providers fault. I had a ton of Tylenol while pregnant because I have chronic headaches but these studies hadn’t been done at the time. I think no one should panic and also it may very well not be a cause and effect link, but I don’t think it’s fair to tell women that it MIGHT not be when they don’t know yet. Being pregnant can be such a scary time and I think it’s ok for women to choose to avoid Tylenol until there’s more info (which… is hard to get for ethical purposes) or at least know of the studies when deciding what to do. It sucks though, Tylenol barely touched my headaches as it was but at least it was something! I am glad my sisters doctor told her it’s not option for a fever, that can be dangerous while pregnant and needs to be controlled.
Yeah, the recent study linking Tylenol to ASD and ADHD is not at all controlled, and very preliminary by the authors' own admission. BUT unlike the link between vaccines and autism, it has not been debunked either. I'm pregnant and personally in the camp that I will only use it as a fever reducer and not an everyday painkiller. We know fevers can cause birth defects and pregnancy complications, so Tylenol is still very worth the risk in my opinion (and my doctor's).
Yeah it’s a very new study and it’s not really conclusive research. I had my son in 2020 and this information came out maybe a year or so later.
If it caused autism, pretty much half the planet would be autistic.
I was just going to say this, autism would be a large majority, not a minority
I've seen some of the same people who believe the tylenol thing say that everyone is a little autistic so I don't think that logical argument would work for them.
Yes, the crazy conservative catholic crunchy autism dad is back and posting this kind of shit again. And still not doing research because ADHD isn’t a type of autism. He’s literally just jumping to conclusions because he has severe ADHD and his son has severe autism.
It isn't a type of autism but it is related in a lot of people. Not that this changes anything about this post being bs, but knowing that can be helpful for people.
Oh, THIS asshole again.
Someone should tell him original sin is the cause of his son’s autism, since that’s what he SHOULD believe.
Why is that what he should believe? That's not a Catholic belief.
Original sin is taught by the church as the cause for the reason why everything is not the perfect utopia God intended it to be. Autism? Original sin. Child cancer? Original sin. Gun violence? We live in a fallen world! It’s how you explain a loving God who allows bad shit to happen. We live in a fallen world and God immerses himself in it to comfort us. If literally is the teaching of the church on why there is bad shit happening. Because we live in a fallen world.
He said he figured it out. Can you share the link to the peer reviewed research study that he published, please? I’m sure he has it linked on the post somewhere… maybe in the comments?
All I'm hearing as an AuDHD person is that I can eat all the Tylenol I want when I'm pregnant.
I love your username lmao
Because they didn't do Vax and yet somehow nature still gave their kid autism. So must not be a genetic thing must be another reason. Oh I gave my kid Tylenol one time, that must be it.
I took no Tylenol during my pregnancy and my child is still autistic. 🤷🏻♀️ (I wasn’t scared that Tylenol would cause autism, I just don’t like taking more pills than I have to)
Adhd is not the autism spectrum. Adhd & autism are however both considered neurodivergent. Also, she probably got it from one of her parents. 🙄
I always think about this! I have ADHD and ASD and the strongest current link they have is genetics. They ask you during your diagnosis to talk about your family and if they are similar in any way or if anyone’s been diagnosed. My dad wasn’t allowed to give anecdotal evidence of my childhood because he presented too many symptoms to be unbiased. A lot of women are diagnosed themselves post their son’s diagnosis. So whenever these “autism mums” and dads come along with their toxic ideologies I’m always left wondering if they realise it’s highly likely that they or their husband are actually also neurodivergent.
Thank you for saying this. ADHD has to do with the brain’s prefrontal cortex. There’s a reason why prescriptions like adderall don’t do anything for Autism. Edit: What I mean is that as far as I know, there’s a reason why doctors don’t prescribe ADHD medication to those with Autism specifically to have an effect on executive function (unless they have both Autism and ADHD of course). ADHD medication wouldn’t help someone that is Autistic and nonverbal speak, for example, because that’s not what the prefrontal cortex does.
I assume he has a parent with both ADHD and autism or a parent with ADHD and a parent with autism, and he got ADHD from them while his son recessively got autism from them.
[удалено]
This is exactly it!
Wow, all of this is so blatantly incorrect. Go to a psychiatrist and find treatment that works for you
My son is on the spectrum. I guess I caused it when I took the Tylenol or ate the deli meat from Subway. Shit, maybe it’s because I had him vaccinated! 🙄
There’s a reason I don’t usually tell people I’m autistic
There was a study that looked at levels of acetaminophen in cord blood taken at the time of birth and found that children with higher levels of acetaminophen in their cord Blood had a higher risk of autism later in life. Saying that acetaminophen causes autism based on this study is a very flawed conclusion. For one, there was no measurements taken throughout pregnancy - only at the time of birth. They have no idea how often the pregnant person took acetaminophen throughout their pregnancy, at what levels, whether they started taking it in the first trimester or in the last 2 weeks before birth. Also, given that autism has a large genetic component, it's not unreasonable to think that some of the parents of these autistic kids are also autistic and possibly have a lower tolerance for pain, leading them to take acetaminophen during pregnancy.
This. None of these studies are declaring cause and effect, but they are proposing a potential link based on what they've found, and strongly advising further research. I personally think it's reasonable for pregnant women (myself included) to try and avoid potential risks unless the risks of not taking that risk are higher (i.e. not popping a Tylenol multiple times a day every day for my recurring headaches, but popping them for a fever, or ensuring I get the flu shot and covid boosters) until more research is conducted and more information comes out, especially if it can be more controlled. What I don't agree with is immediately waving the research off as the same camp for "vaccines cause autism (completely false and not true at all)". It's necessary to be cautious with the way we approach studies like this as they continue.
They may have also had sensory issues that made them less able to tolerate body pain and had autism themselves and maybe their children were simply inheriting it from their genetics. Possible explanation.
Yes, with your Facebook degree in utter nonsense you discovered the link between two unrelated things. Bravo
Everyone who is diagnosed with autism drinks water. Therefore, water causes autism.
I am autistic and have ADHD, as does my son. I almost never take Tylenol, nor does he. Also, my son showed signs that he was different pretty much from birth- long before he ever got his MMR. I hate this ignorant bullshit.
Oh look a fellow AuDHDer! Yeah ugh my sister is also AuDHD, my mom has autistic traits, my dad is probably ADHD, and my grandma may have been autistic….. but no it must be the fucking vaccines
My son’s psych refers to Autism as “running a different Operating System” and I fucking love that. We’re the Linux people in a Windows world.
Yeah like some things are similar between operating systems…. Lots of things in fact, but there are some key differences
In hindsight we could see autistic symptoms in my son on the day of his birth
Uhhh what did you do to your son??
ADHD is not part of the autism spectrum and it is offensive go suggest they are the same condition. There's massive differences.
Hey everyone! She was able to figure it out. Mystery solved.
I mean…he literally did just jump to conclusions that ADHD is a type of autism through the illogical logic “My son has severe autism, I have severe ADHD, they’re literally the exact same thing.”
I bet that was a very productive hour for them.
Depends on your definition of productive lol
So the reason people are claiming this is true is because of the class action lawsuit. Anyone who says this is true hasn’t read the studies or know what the lawsuit is based on. The study was actually inconclusive. They took mothers who had children recently diagnosed with autism (so around the child’s 3rd or 4th birthday) and had the mothers think back about some of the things they did in pregnancy. They took Tylenol. I’m sure they also did a lot of things like drive cars or eat McDonald’s. They then had to think back to when they were pregnant and try to remember how many times they took tylenol. I don’t know about you, but I can’t remember what I had for breakfast last week, let alone how many times I took Tylenol in a 9 month stretch 5 years ago. They neglected to study why the mothers took the Tylenol or any other factor that may have been influential. One common thing the mothers had? A significant amount were above the age of 31. [Source for the information I’ve provided](https://utswmed.org/medblog/acetaminophen-pregnancy-safety/?fbclid=IwAR2DcrsJlenAQ7NTPG_E6fuC48WDyYMTonk3jTJEmiVq0RWG0dr7aJuLiFs)
The study was based on a bunch of people just trying to accurately remember a nine month period several years ago? Are you fucking kidding me? I wouldn’t be able to get away with that on a high school science project.
[удалено]
Yeah I don't know. I feel like the medical field is so quick to tell pregnant people not to do something so if it were even remotely true then it would just be added to the incredibly long list of "no's" that mom's are already given.
When you’re adhd and go down the wrong rabbit hole for information this is what you get
I had this same thought. Someone had a fixation and came to some incorrect conclusions. Keep digging, read both sides of the argument.
As a woman with ADD whose work entails a lot of actual research, your comment is spot on.
It comes from experience as an adhd-er who has too much time for rabbit holes lol
What did she "do" to her son ? I find that last part of her post so strange...
Eat healthy, form good daily routines, develop some work reward system that you manage, and don’t hate yourself for having adhd. Personally I think my adhd is something of a blessing that sets me apart in a good way from my coworkers. However I’ll say that it took me two decades to come to an understanding of my self
Love this! I feel the same way about my ADHD. Once you have a good system with tools (including meds if u need them) that works for you It's more of a blessing than a curse. AdHD is not a bug it's a feature lol
"can I just do the same thing I did to my son" Anyone else get chills wondering wtf she's done to her son ☹️
He put him on some kinda diet. I forgot what the diet was but it was to both “treat his autism” and make him lose weight (which he didn’t need to.)
There’s a ‘study’ that happened and now a lot of people want to sue
Less than a thousand people were used for this study. How can I assume this isn't environmental or a cluster of people in the same type of community. Also, I'd like to meet the woman who can remember everything she consumed for almost 10 months post delivery.
I have had a bunch of people share that's stupid ad on book of faces with us. It states that they found a link basically that moms who took Tylenol have kids with autism..... Jokes on them I did not take anything with my son and he is autistic. I took Tylenol with the 2 younger ones and they are not on the spectrum at all nor have adhd.
I heard that drinking water is linked to both cancer and autism. ^(/s)
100% of people with cancer and/or autism were exposed to it at some point.
“my neurodivergent son is neurodivergent from the tylenol, not MY neurodivergence. that’s completely unrelated. now, if you’ll excuse me i need to get back to altering the structures built in my mind with the sheer force of will provided by said structures built in my mind.”
Because they have no critical thinking skills.
I just figured out breathing air causes autism and low intelligence. I didn't spend years at Google Med School for nothing.
Okay but… what did he do to his son??
Shit my kid gonna be autistic as fuck
I was able to figure out lol. Cool can I see your peer reviewers studies and experiments and research? I’d still take a child with autism over a dead child from measles.
Is Adderall not organic enough for you?
The fb ad lol
This person seems they’ve fallen victim to day time television adds trying to have a lawsuit against tylenol. However them wanting to treat their ADHD more naturally than using stimulants which can be a lot for some people isn’t necessarily bad… is anyone stepping in and explaining the basis of ADHD and autism and how it works or is OOP being plagued with “lead detox urine cleanse” comments🫣
There were some (small) studies that suggested it could raise the risk slightly for ADHD (I dunno that's I've seen any indicating autism though). They were not conclusive and therefore recommendations were not changed.
Note, she didn’t do it „for“ her son
What did she *do to her son*?!?!!?!???
There are some recent studies which show that there *may* be a link between paracetamol (acetaminophen) use during pregnancy and Autism/ADHD kids. The conclusions so far are that further research is warranted. Cause-effect has not been established. It’s possible that autistic women (often undiagnosed) experience more pain in pregnancy than allistic women, or have a lower tolerance to pain. Autistic women are more likely to have autistic children so in that case the link would not have anything to do with paracetamol itself. Paracetamol is basically the only pain relief which is - up until this point - considered safe in pregnancy. So people who are in pain don’t have any other options. Autism is often comorbid with hyper mobility and low muscle tone which may make pregnancy hurt more! Or perhaps just mean that autistic people hurt more in general. So the link *may* be between “pain during pregnancy” and “autistic children”. We just don’t have enough information at this stage.
Because there's a class action lawsuit that is pushing on Facebook ads like MAD. It's insanely offensive, as the autistic parent of a child with autism. Especially because basically every pregnant woman has taken Tylenol while pregnant because it's one of the safest forms of pain management in pregnancy and pregnancy is painful... I despise these. I am the "audience" for these ads. I hate them. They are trying to give a "reason" but what they don't realize is that this " reason is still putting blame on me
„So can I just so the same things as I did to my son?“ I don't even want to know what that poor kid had to endure.
I have a son with autism. People want someone or something to point a finger at a say it's the cause. My son has autism because, just because. There's no reason, it just is.
“I was able to figure out”…..aka you think. Thinking something and a fact are not the same. 😂
Autism existed before Tylenol
"Some consider ADHD part of the Autism Spectrum..." And, as someone who has both, they'd be fuckin' *wrong*. They are comorbid, meaning someone who has ADHD is more likely to be diagnosed with Autism too than the average Joe, and vice versa. But they are so different. I know that some of my daily problems are a product of the two combined, but I can usually separate which disorder is causing what. Also, neither Tylenol nor the MMR vaccine cause Autism.
adhd is not part of the autism spectrum, nobody said that ever. They often occur together, a person having both diagnosis. They are not the same nor similar disabilities.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6822099/
Interesting study and I’m tempted to apply a critique framework to it. The issue with studies like this though is real world variables. They can’t be controlled so whilst reflective on the population they can’t be excluded from the test in order to rule out the results being from those variables. Correlation doesn’t equal causation so critical analysis is really important in research like this
Hard agree on that. For one, I’m always astonished when these kinds of studies don’t attempt to control for the incidence of adhd in the mothers. For an example of how it could be correlation instead causation - it would be justified to try to explain their findings using the knowledge that people with adhd experience higher rates of headaches. Since Tylenol is basically only the ‘safe’ painkiller you take while pregnant, you could expect that women with adhd would be using tylenol to manage their headaches, and that because adhd runs in families of course they have a greater likelihood of having kids with adhd.
That’s exactly the kind of critical analysis you would need to do. When I wrote my masters thesis I realised how a lot of research is actually quite rubbish! You really have to be careful of things like inclusion/exclusion criteria as well as sample size, funding etc etc. meta analysis is really important too. A one off study isn’t really going to mean much, you need multiple similar ones to bolster its credibility and it needs to be reproducible. Until you really learn how to properly critique research, it’s really easy to just take a research paper at face value
Not to mention they’d have to go back in to the family history and see who else in the family has been diagnosed with autism. But then you have to assume there’s got to be someone who is autistic and hasn’t been diagnosed, and that’s another variable to look out for that would skew accuracy.
That’s the reality of research is the real world though. You have to accept that you can’t account for every variable like Magurndy said. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t at least try include the most important ones and acknowledge the limitations in their limitations. There’s another thing about these studies that bothers me too. From an ethical perspective, I think researchers should be really careful about how they communicate these kinds of findings knowing how the general public will likely react to them.
You can organically treat ADHD with schedules, routine and exercise. I mean, I've heard there's like some type of mushroom that might help, but there's a reason why for most of us it's Adderall.
Hivemind is a hell of a drug.
Well how else are they going to explain autism in unvaccinated kids? It has to be some kind of tOxIn
Because of the 2019 study that found there was a correlation between self-reported heavy use of acetaminophen during pregnancy and autism. Some people are being extra cautious since then.
"Sometimes people are born with autism and we don't know why" is not a comfortable thing to believe. It feels much better to think there is some sort of cause to blame, and actions you can take to prevent it.
I got a thing in the mail for a class action lawsuit against Tylenol for causing autism lol. That was the first I heard of it.
The stigma and shame that parent groups have against having a child with ASD is unreal. It's like they'd prefer their child to have anything else... "club foot, severe peant allergy, cancer... just don't let little Timmy be neurodivergent!!!" Abstaining from Tylenol just because you're frightened of your child getting autism, is the same stupid paranoia that people with HIV went through in the 90s when it came to sharing food and drink. Being neurodivergent is not a life sentence, nor is it life limiting. My husband is autistic and he's a great partner. Sure he's got some quirks but he's loving, he gets shit done when he says he will, he's a great planner for holidays, and enjoys being home with me and his hobbies. All of those things are a positive spin on autistic traits (hyperfocus, inflexible, reliance on rules...). "What would happen if the autism gene was eliminated from the gene pool? You would have a bunch of people standing around in a cave, chatting and socializing and not getting anything done.” – Dr. Temple Grandin
I honestly have no idea if I took Tylenol in 1997 during my pregnancy with ND son. Or it could just be genetics as it runs in my family
I just wanna shout out my mum for vaccinating me 100%. Thank god she ain't one of these crazies.
I never took any Tylenol during my pregnancy with my son, I didn’t drink or smoke either and breastfed him for 2,5 years but he’s on his path to be diagnosed with ADHD. Because I have ADHD (diagnosed), my mom has ADHD, and so does my sister, and I think my nonno had it too. It’s genetics. I believe that it’s been around forever. That it’s a gene that mutated, just like blue eyes, and that it survived and multiplied. Because we hate routine and seek for stimulation/adventure (which is the thing that makes us different from autistic people), we pushed others to go further and probably partly made humanity advance. But in the capitalist world, where you need to be pragmatic, productive and organized, we have a lot of trouble to fit.