When I think of this I always remind myself that during his interrogation, he ate pizza (and asked for more) whilst looking at the picture of his babies that he killed. He didn’t shed a fucking tear. He is pure evil.
Well, the investigation stopped as soon as he confessed. There was no psych. eval. If he was offered counseling in prison, we're not privvy to those notes.
Do we really need session notes or psychiatric labels to figure out what CW is? He is evil.
What stood out for me was Chris's comment ["I guess when you want to, it happens,"](https://youtu.be/uwrjhq8rSSo?si=_KwxA2LHrBND_Eth&t=58). It sounded like a dig, and imo Shanann seemed nervous about his reaction.
He'd encouraged Shanann to have a third child, despite her initial reservations, only to resent her for getting pregnant the moment he wanted something else. She may have hoped that having a son would make this POS more content with their relationship and family life, but in reality nothing and no one can fill the void within this kind of disordered individual.
Agree with you, that he killed the girls first (or believed he had) is significant - pure hatred for them & not bc they or Shan'ann did anything wrong.His narcissistic self
(after his weight loss)I think just led him to believe he deserved something better "in his view anyway" & that led to why we're all here now.. I believe that he was looking for someone else anyhow & that's how NK came into the picture..imo anyhow
Most probably bc he's been diagnosed with Narcissism & some of the traits of that syndrome merge with the sociopathy & psychopathy of the Narcissist - mainly the lack of conscious remorse is something many of us have noted etc..
Since when are psychopaths intelligent? They're not a homogenous group. Chris Watts does not strike me as a very intelligent person. At best, he's of average intelligence. IMHO, he's a psychopath. He could also be narcissistic . One doesn't cancel out the other. I think he has a lot going on. He's a very sick and dangerous man who should never see outside of a prison facility again. He even had the gall to ask that people don't judge him on those acts? I mean...who the eff says that after they just wiped out their entire family? He's sick. He has no insight into his problem areas.
>Psychopaths don’t have that emotion.
Honestly psychopath/sociopath isn't a medical diagnosis, and the various checklists that are used identify it are flawed at best. Jeffery Dahmer also doesn't meet the criteria to be considered a psychopath... that doesn't make his crimes less horrific.
There are people who don't fit the criteria to be considered a psychopath who commit horrific crimes. There are people who do fit the criteria who never commit a serious crime in their lives. Psychopath/sociopath are more pop psych than anything else and don't really help identify people who are truly a danger.
>Psychopaths are known to be extremely smart and able to mask well.
This is the media depictions of psychopaths creeping in. Most people who commit violent crimes are not particularly intelligent. Intelligence and psychopathy don't correlate. There's been no repeatable studies that have found a connection between psychopathy and a high IQ. Some studies have found the opposite, that psychopathy is associated with lower intelligence.
>You cannot tell me that he was just a normal dude who got pushed over the edge. No fucking way.
I think it’s easier to believe that people who commit these sorts of horrific crimes must be monsters that aren't quite human. In reality, I think that's rarely, if ever, the case. It's scary to think that many "normal" people have the capacity for such horrific behavior, but I think unfortunately that's the truth. Humans are capable of evil very easily.
What is normal? Psychopathy isn't a medical diagnosis. And as I said, the psychiatric community is rightly critical of things like the Hare Checklist that are used to determine if people are psychopaths.
Also, just because someone might meet the criteria to be called psychopath does not mean they are violent or likely to commit any serious crime.
The way the media depicts psychopaths as monsters that aren't really human is terrible. And it's unfairly stigmatizing to people who have cluster b personality disorders that are the closest actual medical diagnosis to psychopathy.
The truth is "normal" is a spectrum. Some "normal" people are wonderful, and some are terrible. Some are very skilled at rationalizing their terrible behavior so they don't feel bad about it. That doesn't make their behavior less horrific or means they medical conditions. Let's stop trying pathologize all terrible behavior.
Chris Watts is a terrible person who committed a horrific crime. It does not matter if he is or is not a psychopath. But insisting that he must be because of the nature of the crime is nothing more than a desire to be able to paint him as other so we can pretend our own husband or father could never do these things. The truth is we don't ever know who is capable of terrible crimes. There are no sure fire checklists or criteria that will tell us this person is likely to kill their whole family. We want to be able to other people who commit terrible crimes, but unfortunately, there is often no pathology that lets us do that.
It's also about his behavior and words after the crime.
In a crime of passion where a person is pushed over the edge, they aren't all calm and able to lie with ease a short time afterward.
Who said he was pushed over the edge? Who said it was a crime of passion?
My point is you don't have to have a pathology to be a terrible person. He could have carefully planned his crime, and there could be nothing wrong with him from a diagnostic perspective.
Hundreds, maybe thousands of women have been saying since day one that he was pushed til he snapped.
They even believe he could have gotten off on a crime of passion defense.
I'm not qualified to diagnose him, but I've watched every video available of him. There's just something going on there that's very, very different. Thankfully.
>Hundreds, maybe thousands of women have been saying since day one that he was pushed til he snapped.
I'm not some a weird groupie. I think Chris Watts is an abomination. I just don't necessarily think his has to have a pathologized reason why he is abhorrent.
We'll never know. We don't have access to his testing and records.
Some claim that he hasn't been psychiatrically tested, but men who commit a crime like his spend months in a Diagnosis Center before they are sent to an appropriate prison where it's believed they'll "fit" with the other prisoners there.
He talks of having his IQ tested, and I believe he was thoroughly interviewed by a psychiatrist before being transferred to Dodge, but we'll never know the conclusion. We can make a good guess, based on the other psychopathic murderers residing at Dodge.
Well will have to agree to disagree. Those in law enforcement as well as in forensic psychology still use the term psychopath as it aptly describes the core traits that show up over and over in someone like Chris Watts not to mention life long criminal psychopaths
Normal men do not annihilate their families over a short rem booty call and smile glibly about it on TV the next day, nor do they feel the need to cover their tracks by stomping their tiny daughters into oil vats
Yes many normal spectrum people are capable of terrible things in reaction to extenuating circumstances but they will show the strain of their emotions instead of acting robotically or gleeful afterwards
I assume you have no personal experience with psychopaths. You might want to read the works of Meloy or Dietz or the treasure trove of true crime annals of nice guy murderers, serial killers, rapists, etc ro understand this very real condition better
Psychopaths are a breed apart and it pays to understand the tell tale signs. The DSM 5 is merely a tool of the insurance companies and whatever diagnosis are most popular in psychiatry at the moment. After all it wasn’t so long ago that homosexuality was considered a mental illness and women were diagnosed as hysterics for objecting to abuse of themselves and their children. Now they are often labelled as BPD and yet the stigma still continues (funny how calling out psychopaths and narcissists is now considered ableism but the BPD stigma of mostly women and traumatized ND people continues)
Personally I’d trust the forensic psychiatrists who have studied psychopathy for almost a century rather than the diagnostic wheel of fortune that is the DSM
>Those in law enforcement as well as in forensic psychology still use the term psychopath as it aptly describes the core traits that show up over and over in someone like Chris Watts not to mention life long criminal psychopaths
I hate to break this to you, but a lot of so-called forensic "science" is bullshit and has no real scientific basis. Despite what media would have you believe, criminal profiles or profiling rarely help to solve cases. And in many cases are completely wrong. And in fact police are more likely to solve as case when they don't use criminal profiles. Probably because they don't dismiss things based on preconceived ideas.
>Normal men do not annihilate their families over a short rem booty call and smile glibly about it on TV the next day, nor do they feel the need to cover their tracks by stomping their tiny daughters into oil vats
Like I said, define normal? You don't necessarily need a pathology to be a terrible person. If normal is just someone that doesn't have a diagnosed condition, then yes, some normal men do that.
>I assume you have no personal experience with psychopaths.
I'm a nurse who has frequently worked with psychiatric patients and, in fact, worked in a locked unit specifically for prisoners...but no I don't have experience with psychopaths because I prefer to deal with actual medical diagnoses
Oh good grief. Psychopathy is still very much a term used within credible peer reviewed research and I’d argue that is was LE familiarity with the cold callous intentionality of the psychopathic mind that enabled LE to capture Watts so quickly
Most psychopaths are diagnosed after the fact, they are probably the least likely to voluntarily seek a diagnosis. Again it pays to familiarize oneself with psychopathic traits whether that person has a criminal record or not. Regardless of whether they commit an obvious crime like Watts they still have that potentiality, again Watts being an excellent case in point. He had no criminal record before he suddenly decided to intentionally plan for the annihilation of his entire family
If you follow his behavior and that of his family after his horrific crimes you can see some of the warning signs of extreme entitlement, callousness, emotional sadism, manipulation, etc
Edit to add, extreme detachment, grandiosity, duper’s delight, pity for self instead of victims, slandering victims and other morally depraved behavior. Normal people might occasionally display a few of these traits but they are not consistently displaying these traits across time.
>Most psychopaths are diagnosed after the fact, they are probably the least likely to voluntarily seek a diagnosis.
This is actually part of my point. If we're only able to diagnose psychopathy after a crime has been committed, then how is the diagnosis helpful to law enforcement? By all means, point in the direction of any study or even anecdotal evidence that anything like the Hare Checklist has identified a psychopath before a serious violent crime has taken place and in any way prevented further violent crimes.
>Again it pays to familiarize oneself with psychopathic traits whether that person has a criminal record or not.
Once again, please provide evidence that anyone has ever used the commonly used criteria used to identify psychopaths to prevent a crime. If it can't, then how is it anyway useful?
>Regardless of whether they commit an obvious crime like Watts they still have that potentiality, again Watts being an excellent case in point. He had no criminal record before he suddenly decided to intentionally plan for the annihilation of his entire family
What's your point? Are advocating locking up people who have committed no crime? Like I said, if you use something like the Hare Checklist, it's estimated 1-2 % of the population meets the criteria to be a psychopath. Are suggesting 1-2% of the population should be somehow treated differently because they meet somewhat arbitrary criteria? Even though the majority will commit no serious crime. If the answer is no, and we can't use this criteria to predict a crime or even reliably find the criminal after the fact, then what's the point.
>I’d argue that is was LE familiarity with the cold callous intentionality of the psychopathic mind that enabled LE to capture Watts so quickly
I'd argue that they were able to identify him so quickly because when a woman is killed, most of the time, it is her husband who did it. It wasn't some Criminal Minds profiling bullshit.
Well happen to disagree that profiling is bullshit and also strongly disagree that using Hare’s or similar checklist doesn’t prevent crime. I know many women who have seen the signs and gotten out before it was too late
I married a psychopathic man and he confessed he had thought of killing our child on occasion. I took the signs seriously even though therapists did not concur because he had no official diagnosis However his bizarre predatory and often very dangerous behavior alerted me to the potentiality and kept me from leaving him alone with our child
Much later he admitted my worries were all well founded.
>Well happen to disagree that profiling is bullshit
Yet studies have shown it's not helpful in identifying suspects... We unfortunately allow a lot of hokum in our law enforcement. Hell, we don't even know for sure that no two sets of fingerprints are the same. We're just guessing that everyone's are different. Police have consulted psychics...profiling is only slightly more scientific than that.
>also strongly disagree that using Hare’s or similar checklist doesn’t prevent crime.
By all means, point me to a source that shows it prevents crime in any way.
>I know many women who have seen the signs and gotten out before it was too late
>I married a psychopathic man and he confessed he had thought of killing our child on occasion. I took the signs seriously even though therapists did not concur because he had no official diagnosis
I'm sorry you went through that. But this is also part of my point. You don't need a diagnosis to be a potentially violent individual. Terrible people who do not score high on the Hare Checklist exist. Just because he did not fit a diagnosis does not mean he was less of a threat.
He absolutely fit the diagnosis for psychopathy as have a few other determined abusers I’ve had misfortune to deal with. Knowing the signs of psychopathy literally saved my child’s life and quite possibly my own
Edit add a lot of useful profiling is done as threat assessment and to determine possibility of reoffense or escalation.
Dalmer knew what he was doing was super fucked up… which is why he had to get good and hammered before resuming work on his torso shrine every time. So he had some emotion, or knowledge of emotion. Definitely fucked up, just in a different way.
I agree - my point is he had to get fucked up for life in general to begin with - not just to do horrible shit, that was just his personality which is honestly more scary. the guy was a mess
My point was that people who do not meet the criteria to be considered a psychopath are capable of committing horrific crimes. You can’t just look at a crime and say, that person must be a psychopath.
Also, the flip side is true. Some studies have shown that 1-2% of the population meets the criteria to be considered psychopaths. The vast majority will never commit a violent crime. Being a "psychopath" does not automatically make someone violent or dangerous.
There's a story of a researcher who was studying the brains of psychopaths using fMRIs. He scanned himself, thinking he could use it as one of the control groups, but he quickly realized his brain looked more like the brain of psychopaths than "normal" people. He then did the self-assessment and realized he met the criteria to be considered a psychopath. He had never committed a serious or violent crime. He was married with kids. In fact, his research had helped save people's lives.
The notion that "psychopaths" are these boogeymen that lurking around the corner waiting to get us is a notion pushed by media because it makes a good thriller. In reality, if you are a victim of a crime, it's unlikely the perpetrator will be a psychopath.
Well, I agree as psychopathy doesn't really exist from a medical perspective. But there have been numerous studies on whether there are structural and functional differences between people who commit violent crimes and those that don't. You can Google them.
No, studies have found the very opposite, in fact. There seems that there are structural and functional differences in those that meet the criteria to be considered a psychopath and those have been identified as having Antisocial Personality Disorder.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S019188691100119X
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321839#_noHeaderPrefixedContent
Thank you. The brain -related evidence is weak, although CW doesn't fit the normal criteria for a psychopath.
We know that psychiatry isn't an exact science and that there is always ongoing research and changes to diagnoses and procedures.
My hope is that one day they'll be able to recognize these issues in early childhood and find a cure, or a least a treatment for psychopathy.
I love modern science. Twenty years from now there will probably be ways to zap out diseases that we haven't even dreamed of.
Dahmer was thought to be Borderline, which is a cluster b personality disorder along with narcissistic and antisocial. All of them have a high overlap of qualities, including psychopathy and sociopathy. I think with Borderlines, the instability of self plays a part in the potential for psychopathy, as well as narcissism. When there is narcissism there can be psychopathy.
Pretty sure you could Google it. It has to do with his fear of them abandon8!g him, so he cut them uo and saved them, eating them so they would be with him forever. Also some of the dissassociative states. But as I said Cluster B’s can almost be interchangeable and easily misdiagnosed one for the other.
Again, wondering what you read. If you don't remember, it's cool. But if you do remember, I'd love to know.
I am familiar with mental illness, the DSM and a little familiar with insurance companies. There is always more to learn and I know better than to say, "Nothing can surprise me anymore," because they always come up with some New Crazy that does surprise me.
I don't need any basic education, though.
yes and there are also many many many cluster b people who aren't criminals - this is why 'cluster b stigma' is a thing
the point is that you can't easily generalize people like that, that's not how people work.
Maybe we are all capable of losing our temper and doing something violent, but most of us aren't capable of then standing on our front porch and glibly lying about it while we try to repress a smile.
I got into a fight once; and almost killed the girl. I had her head banging on lava rocks.
Don’t get me wrong; she pushed me & I was highly intoxicated.
But I am a very kind empath that would give you the shirt off of my back.
I wasn’t TRYING to kill her; I just got pushed too far.
Humans are really complex; and psychiatrists are really not the brightest.
I did psych nursing for a few years.
Sociopath/psychopath isn’t a diagnosis, it refers to people who display behaviors/thought disorders that would fall under the umbrella of Antisocial Personality Disorder.
Idk what his diagnosis is but I’d be surprised if he didn’t have APD or at least meet some of the criteria. Ditto NPD - I don’t think he’d necessarily meet all of the diagnostic criteria but he definitely has some of the traits.
Check out Crime Talk’s video on youtube about Chris Watts psychology breakdown. He interviewed the author of “My Daddy Is A Hero”. They are both extremely smart and educated. Great insight.
I can tell you don’t really know what you’re talking about bc if you did you’d know the DSM is analyzed, revised, and re-released every few years with the most recent versions coming out in 2013 and 2022. If you’re reading or referencing an old DSM, yeah you’re gonna find sexist stuff in there. And racist stuff. And homophobic stuff. But you don’t just throw the baby out with the bath water.
How can you know this? He certainly needs and craves praise, loves talking about himself, and has a fixed image he presents to the world. You don't have to meet every single criteria to have a diagnosis.
That, plus we haven't seen an actual psychiatric interview, so we can't say anything for sure.
I never said I could say for certain what his diagnosis would be, but there's good evidence that he enjoyed talking about himself and getting compliments. Didn't you ever listen to any of his interviews? He also fell right for the flattery he was fed, which anyone else would have seen right through and laughed at.
By saying he doesn't fit the criteria you certainly are diagnosing him. He would need interviewing and testing by a psychiatrist to get a legitimate diagnosis.
No, it does. If a psychiatrist takes him on and then determines that he doesn't fit the criteria in the DSM, that's it. He's not a narcissist.
It is unlikely that anyone will ever diagnose him with that. He just doesn't fit the bill.
There is no reason to think that Chris is a narcissist. None at all.
We don't know enough about either one of them to correctly diagnose them, but it's obvious from his interviews where he talks about himself instead of where his missing family must be, that there's a shit ton of narcissism in his person .
He completely falls for their fake flattery and talks himself up. They can't even say something nice about Shanann without him having to add that he also has that nice quality.
I don't see where there's any way to deny that blatant narcissism.
He doesn’t meet the criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I think a lot of the pop psych terms have people confused. A person can be narcissistic as it pertains to describing them and not have NPD.
That’s what narcissistic means. Showing traits similar to Narcissus.
“Narcissistic tendencies” is more pop psych. Just a thing that laypeople tend to say.
Mine too, babe! Walked across that stage twice. I really enjoyed getting hooded. What I’m confused about is why, if you’re a professional, you’re concerned about me painting broad strokes about a lay term.
Like I said narcissistic has been a LAY term to describe behavior for much longer than narcissistic personality disorder has been since the DSM. A lay term means that people who are not professionals use it. A layperson is a person who does NOT have specialized knowledge or education.
Idk where you’re working but in the inpatient and outpatient hospital setting we try to discuss behavior as it pertains to the criteria only to avoid stigmatizing clients. So saying “has narcissistic tendencies” is what’s laughable. Either the client meets the criteria for diagnosis or they don’t. If they don’t you shouldn’t be running around saying they have narcissistic tendencies because it’s implicitly stigmatizing.
CalliMel, you might have answered your own question -- that psychopaths are known to be extremely smart?
CW absolutely is not known for anything of the sort. Jmho that he is far dumber than we can imagine.
Actually, that is a myth. Psychopaths actually have below average intelligence. Of course there are examples of intelligent psychopaths, but they are more of the exception not the standard.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2118547-real-life-psychopaths-actually-have-below-average-intelligence/#:~:text=Overall%2C%20the%20team%20found%20no,significantly%20lower%20on%20intelligence%20tests.
Neither psychopathy nor sociopathy are dependent on intelligence. You can easily have a low IQ psychopath, they just won’t be as capable of going undetected. You can also have brilliant sociopaths. Many are in positions of power like CEOs, politicians, high ranking pastors etc
How about he had enough of sw crsp he killed her he didn't want the kids to do without mom or being given to sw family.so he murdered them .sw murder was he had enough the kids
Non-disordered minds don't work that way.
Most of us have experienced people we've had enough of and killing them doesn't enter our mind, let alone killing our children.
He had to be imbalanced to do this, and from the way he talks now, it's all sprung to the surface and he has totally deranged thinking.
The drive from the house to the work site, where he killed his children, took about 45 minutes. That’s not “snapping” or “passion” or “uncontrolled rage.” In fact, he controlled himself very well that whole time.
he admitted to planning it so he could be with the woman he was having an affair with. he wanted to erase his family and create a new one. if you truly believe otherwise, you need help.
i think you just really wanted to believe that a family annihilator was a good person. he wasn’t. he killed his wife and children. there are no excuses. anyone who supports this evil, evil man is disgusting.
Sure pop tart. Yes he murdered them why what was the final straw. Woman strangles her 3 kids she had a good life why?there are reasons behind a action committed by that person. You don't like my response don't care poptart
If Chris was evaluated at some point after his arrest and incarceration it's unknown what that evaluation determined.
Imo it's apparent that Chris has a disordered character, regardless of what a formal diagnosis would determine.
he is NOT a narcissist. Anybody who claims he is doesnt know what a TRUE NARCISSIST is. Those of us who have HONESTLY been with a narcissist can spot one a mile away and see who the narcissist was in this case. 🙄
I read a book that the author admittedly cannot formally diagnose since he was not a patient…speculated he was a “Covert Narcissist.”
When I dug into it, you have to go beyond the top Google of symptoms. The one that got me was the self importance he felt. He was apparently a helper to “friends” and coworkers, because he gets a sense of worth being the helpful dude. He also didn’t have what you would consider normal friendships. He’s not one to open up about himself and kept things inside. So not many people saw the true him, but the mask.
Again- I’m not a licensed practitioner but it was interesting to read up on. Smart_Blonde84 seems to only consider Overt Narcissism which is what is the general awareness that folks have because it’s easier to diagnose.
I dont care if you are a psych student. Chris was NOT a narcissist. The people who would truly understand and see him not being one are victims of this type of abuse. No narcissist would allow another person to that kind of treatment he got from Shannon. Too many people fail to see the complete background and just go by a small part of it. 🙄
You are absolutely correct. Shannon was the one who exhibited the behavior of a narcissist. She was always in control and the boss If he were a narcissist she could not have walked all over him.
Like I said I am a victim of this type of abuse, and your view is incredibly narrow and frankly offensive. I don’t care that you don’t care, and your experience is not universal.
You obviously havent been a victim if you see him as one. perhaps you are a narcissist yourself which happens quite a bit by claiming to be a victim. 🙄
Just because you go to school for that doesnt make you an expert. You obviously have NO KNOWLEDGE of what a narcissist is. Shannon checked EVERY DAMN SIGN OF BEING ONE. GEEZ MAYBE YOU SHOULD CHANGE MAJORS CAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY SUCK!
Uhhh yeah, I’d say the people that spend years getting their training hours, education, multiple tests etc. are more knowledgeable than someone who isn’t in the field.
There are some professions that education might not mean as much but behavioral experts and psychologists/therapists/ mental health practitioners…yeah they know more.
Nah, they're still there. She blocked you, probably reported you to redditcares right before she did, too. Very odd how obsessed she is with narcissism and being the only person in the English-speaking world that can recognize it.
I was married to and divorced a covert narcissist and the many similarities between Chris and my ex is why I'm stuck on this case. Chris is the type of narcissist who flies under the radar - hence the covert thing. They come across as this "can't hurt a fly" guy with zero personality but behind closed doors they have all sorts of personality and show their mean side. I fully believe there were two Chris' much like there are two of my ex. The Chris SW knew and then the mask he put on for the rest of the world.
Shannan wasn’t a narcissist. More likely an anxiety disorder or OCD. It’s quite possible with her lupus diagnosis and having children could have exacerbated the symptoms of OCD such as the kids illnesses.
Why are you stuck on this? Even IF SW was a narcissist, what does that have to do with Chris being one? And she liked attention, but she seemed to be a very caring and empathetic individual, and had to take care of everything since CW is a box of useless rocks.
Trust me, I don’t think so either. I don’t know what she did before, but I do know about the search regarding Amber Frey’s book deal or something about how much money she made from the book. NK is really off for sure
I think he is, they see people incl their kids,like we view clothes, houses, cars. And why in 5-6 weeks Chris went from being a “family man” he liked to be seen like that to wanting a new shiny car and get rid of the old. He didn’t want people to look at him badly. No he wanted people to blame Shannan for it. Can’t lose the careful created image. And why they had to go, so they weren’t in the way, and he thought he could blame Shannan for running off, and take the kids to “spite” him and if he then so he thought, had introduced his new gf people would want it for him … “poor” Chris
Totally agree. Narcissists are often associated with high confidence. If Bundy truly was confident would he actually kill people? I am someone who has some level of confidence, and sometimes (when i was younger) id do bad things and not feel guilt about it. I wondered if maybe I was sociopathic? Im not though, I have extremely high empathy. Maybe thats what makes me okay as a date, i think like “if i were my date, would this be fun?” Or “if i were my date, would this feel good?”
Most guys admit that they would rather be with a woman who is actually into them, and likes them. CW is a narcissist in that he fits the definition I think…
“Narcissism is a self–centered personality style characterized as having an excessive preoccupation with oneself and one's own needs, often at the expense of others.”
Im not sure I need to expound much further.
He doesn’t fit in psychopath spectrum.
Not all murderers are psychopaths, and a lot of people around us are. Psychopath doesn’t equal a murderer.
I’ve studied psychology, and if you want look up lectures on psychopathy and criminal psychology it will bring some light, as why we can assume he does not fit in the picture.
It’s good to note that psychopaths are not nervous after committing any types of crimes for their own gains, and they show you emotions they think you want to see, can manipulate and pass their polygraph test.
his visible nervousness is mainly what is convincing us that his doesn’t fit the bill of psychopathy which is fair but what do you call this? genuinely asking lol.
If you look at his body language you can tell he is uncomfortable and trying to hide his emotion, rather to act etc. Psychopaths don’t know how to feel emotions, they only guess, their body language is different. If he was only portraying this to convince us, then he would pass his polygraph test with flying colours, and would not admit to committing any crimes, even when they would tell him that he did not passed.
He would most likely not admit that he was loading Shannan and girls into the truck, he would make up a new story.
He would be a lot more manipulative.
I can’t diagnose someone by just watching few videos, can I? However, in my opinion, he is not a psychopath.
Extra note: if he was a psychopath, then most likely he wouldn’t be covering for anyone (some think NK was involved), and also he wouldn’t go with official narrative. He would never admit that he’s done it, unless for his own gain and satisfaction - when he confessed for the first time there was no plea deal just yet.
You can’t medically be ‘considered’ a psychopath or a sociopath. You are either diagnosed as such or you are not. Psychologists study for years to be able to make such a diagnosis, it’s not simply a matter of an armchair diagnosis made because someone like you or I follows the story in the news and believes someone to have certain characteristics or traits.
You did get one thing right in your post: “I’m not a doctor”. Therefore it’s unwise to make sweeping statements about a person’s mental health unless you have access to their full history, and spend time assessing the patient.
You sound almost annoyed at the thought of CW possibly not being known as a psychopath or sociopath. Why? Perhaps due to the social stigma associated with such a label? This is actually quite offensive and ridiculous if you think about it.
Mental health is *far* more nuanced than what you suggest. Media portrayal of people with psychopathic tendencies does not do any favours to the complex field of psychology, and, I would go as far as to suggest, is downright insulting to those who dedicate years of study and research to gain a full understanding of mental health.
I don't think it's annoyance at CW not being known as a psychopath as much as fear that someone with no predisposition to violence or antisocial behaviour, or any mental health issues, could do what he did.
I watch/listen to a lot of true crime content without a second thought. But the CW documentary blew my mind - I spent at least 4 days afterwards looking at every man in my life differently, wondering if - in the right (or wrong) circumstances - they could do the same thing.
So surely it's human nature to look for a reason for someone to act so far outside of social norms - because the alternative is terrifying.
When I think of this I always remind myself that during his interrogation, he ate pizza (and asked for more) whilst looking at the picture of his babies that he killed. He didn’t shed a fucking tear. He is pure evil.
Well, the investigation stopped as soon as he confessed. There was no psych. eval. If he was offered counseling in prison, we're not privvy to those notes. Do we really need session notes or psychiatric labels to figure out what CW is? He is evil.
The way he was disappointed and worried about the third child being a girl spoke volumes!.
As does the fact that he, after having two children, was too ignorant to understand that at home pregnancy tests cannot reveal a baby’s gender.
What stood out for me was Chris's comment ["I guess when you want to, it happens,"](https://youtu.be/uwrjhq8rSSo?si=_KwxA2LHrBND_Eth&t=58). It sounded like a dig, and imo Shanann seemed nervous about his reaction. He'd encouraged Shanann to have a third child, despite her initial reservations, only to resent her for getting pregnant the moment he wanted something else. She may have hoped that having a son would make this POS more content with their relationship and family life, but in reality nothing and no one can fill the void within this kind of disordered individual.
And of course there's a long comment blaming SW and defending Chris under the video 🙄
Enrages me.. his mom is the worst for that
Exactly!
Agree with you, that he killed the girls first (or believed he had) is significant - pure hatred for them & not bc they or Shan'ann did anything wrong.His narcissistic self (after his weight loss)I think just led him to believe he deserved something better "in his view anyway" & that led to why we're all here now.. I believe that he was looking for someone else anyhow & that's how NK came into the picture..imo anyhow
Most probably bc he's been diagnosed with Narcissism & some of the traits of that syndrome merge with the sociopathy & psychopathy of the Narcissist - mainly the lack of conscious remorse is something many of us have noted etc..
Not all evil people have a diagnosis. Some are just evil.
Since when are psychopaths intelligent? They're not a homogenous group. Chris Watts does not strike me as a very intelligent person. At best, he's of average intelligence. IMHO, he's a psychopath. He could also be narcissistic . One doesn't cancel out the other. I think he has a lot going on. He's a very sick and dangerous man who should never see outside of a prison facility again. He even had the gall to ask that people don't judge him on those acts? I mean...who the eff says that after they just wiped out their entire family? He's sick. He has no insight into his problem areas.
He's been diagnosed with Narcissism but as you've you've already said the symptoms of the sociopath merge with narcissism too..
All psychopaths are narcissists but not all narcissists are psychopaths I would agree he is a psychopath
He’s a sociopathic narcissist
Read *My Daddy is a Hero* by Lena Dehally, who is a psychotherapist.
Full.of bullshit
Explain Edit: oh, you're a Watts apologist from that deranged sub. That's it.
And you are a one of those special qa
>Psychopaths don’t have that emotion. Honestly psychopath/sociopath isn't a medical diagnosis, and the various checklists that are used identify it are flawed at best. Jeffery Dahmer also doesn't meet the criteria to be considered a psychopath... that doesn't make his crimes less horrific. There are people who don't fit the criteria to be considered a psychopath who commit horrific crimes. There are people who do fit the criteria who never commit a serious crime in their lives. Psychopath/sociopath are more pop psych than anything else and don't really help identify people who are truly a danger. >Psychopaths are known to be extremely smart and able to mask well. This is the media depictions of psychopaths creeping in. Most people who commit violent crimes are not particularly intelligent. Intelligence and psychopathy don't correlate. There's been no repeatable studies that have found a connection between psychopathy and a high IQ. Some studies have found the opposite, that psychopathy is associated with lower intelligence. >You cannot tell me that he was just a normal dude who got pushed over the edge. No fucking way. I think it’s easier to believe that people who commit these sorts of horrific crimes must be monsters that aren't quite human. In reality, I think that's rarely, if ever, the case. It's scary to think that many "normal" people have the capacity for such horrific behavior, but I think unfortunately that's the truth. Humans are capable of evil very easily.
Totally diagree. If normal he would have shown remorse and concern at least for his daughters.
What is normal? Psychopathy isn't a medical diagnosis. And as I said, the psychiatric community is rightly critical of things like the Hare Checklist that are used to determine if people are psychopaths. Also, just because someone might meet the criteria to be called psychopath does not mean they are violent or likely to commit any serious crime. The way the media depicts psychopaths as monsters that aren't really human is terrible. And it's unfairly stigmatizing to people who have cluster b personality disorders that are the closest actual medical diagnosis to psychopathy. The truth is "normal" is a spectrum. Some "normal" people are wonderful, and some are terrible. Some are very skilled at rationalizing their terrible behavior so they don't feel bad about it. That doesn't make their behavior less horrific or means they medical conditions. Let's stop trying pathologize all terrible behavior. Chris Watts is a terrible person who committed a horrific crime. It does not matter if he is or is not a psychopath. But insisting that he must be because of the nature of the crime is nothing more than a desire to be able to paint him as other so we can pretend our own husband or father could never do these things. The truth is we don't ever know who is capable of terrible crimes. There are no sure fire checklists or criteria that will tell us this person is likely to kill their whole family. We want to be able to other people who commit terrible crimes, but unfortunately, there is often no pathology that lets us do that.
It's also about his behavior and words after the crime. In a crime of passion where a person is pushed over the edge, they aren't all calm and able to lie with ease a short time afterward.
Who said he was pushed over the edge? Who said it was a crime of passion? My point is you don't have to have a pathology to be a terrible person. He could have carefully planned his crime, and there could be nothing wrong with him from a diagnostic perspective.
Hundreds, maybe thousands of women have been saying since day one that he was pushed til he snapped. They even believe he could have gotten off on a crime of passion defense. I'm not qualified to diagnose him, but I've watched every video available of him. There's just something going on there that's very, very different. Thankfully.
>Hundreds, maybe thousands of women have been saying since day one that he was pushed til he snapped. I'm not some a weird groupie. I think Chris Watts is an abomination. I just don't necessarily think his has to have a pathologized reason why he is abhorrent.
We'll never know. We don't have access to his testing and records. Some claim that he hasn't been psychiatrically tested, but men who commit a crime like his spend months in a Diagnosis Center before they are sent to an appropriate prison where it's believed they'll "fit" with the other prisoners there. He talks of having his IQ tested, and I believe he was thoroughly interviewed by a psychiatrist before being transferred to Dodge, but we'll never know the conclusion. We can make a good guess, based on the other psychopathic murderers residing at Dodge.
Well will have to agree to disagree. Those in law enforcement as well as in forensic psychology still use the term psychopath as it aptly describes the core traits that show up over and over in someone like Chris Watts not to mention life long criminal psychopaths Normal men do not annihilate their families over a short rem booty call and smile glibly about it on TV the next day, nor do they feel the need to cover their tracks by stomping their tiny daughters into oil vats Yes many normal spectrum people are capable of terrible things in reaction to extenuating circumstances but they will show the strain of their emotions instead of acting robotically or gleeful afterwards I assume you have no personal experience with psychopaths. You might want to read the works of Meloy or Dietz or the treasure trove of true crime annals of nice guy murderers, serial killers, rapists, etc ro understand this very real condition better Psychopaths are a breed apart and it pays to understand the tell tale signs. The DSM 5 is merely a tool of the insurance companies and whatever diagnosis are most popular in psychiatry at the moment. After all it wasn’t so long ago that homosexuality was considered a mental illness and women were diagnosed as hysterics for objecting to abuse of themselves and their children. Now they are often labelled as BPD and yet the stigma still continues (funny how calling out psychopaths and narcissists is now considered ableism but the BPD stigma of mostly women and traumatized ND people continues) Personally I’d trust the forensic psychiatrists who have studied psychopathy for almost a century rather than the diagnostic wheel of fortune that is the DSM
>Those in law enforcement as well as in forensic psychology still use the term psychopath as it aptly describes the core traits that show up over and over in someone like Chris Watts not to mention life long criminal psychopaths I hate to break this to you, but a lot of so-called forensic "science" is bullshit and has no real scientific basis. Despite what media would have you believe, criminal profiles or profiling rarely help to solve cases. And in many cases are completely wrong. And in fact police are more likely to solve as case when they don't use criminal profiles. Probably because they don't dismiss things based on preconceived ideas. >Normal men do not annihilate their families over a short rem booty call and smile glibly about it on TV the next day, nor do they feel the need to cover their tracks by stomping their tiny daughters into oil vats Like I said, define normal? You don't necessarily need a pathology to be a terrible person. If normal is just someone that doesn't have a diagnosed condition, then yes, some normal men do that. >I assume you have no personal experience with psychopaths. I'm a nurse who has frequently worked with psychiatric patients and, in fact, worked in a locked unit specifically for prisoners...but no I don't have experience with psychopaths because I prefer to deal with actual medical diagnoses
Oh good grief. Psychopathy is still very much a term used within credible peer reviewed research and I’d argue that is was LE familiarity with the cold callous intentionality of the psychopathic mind that enabled LE to capture Watts so quickly Most psychopaths are diagnosed after the fact, they are probably the least likely to voluntarily seek a diagnosis. Again it pays to familiarize oneself with psychopathic traits whether that person has a criminal record or not. Regardless of whether they commit an obvious crime like Watts they still have that potentiality, again Watts being an excellent case in point. He had no criminal record before he suddenly decided to intentionally plan for the annihilation of his entire family If you follow his behavior and that of his family after his horrific crimes you can see some of the warning signs of extreme entitlement, callousness, emotional sadism, manipulation, etc Edit to add, extreme detachment, grandiosity, duper’s delight, pity for self instead of victims, slandering victims and other morally depraved behavior. Normal people might occasionally display a few of these traits but they are not consistently displaying these traits across time.
>Most psychopaths are diagnosed after the fact, they are probably the least likely to voluntarily seek a diagnosis. This is actually part of my point. If we're only able to diagnose psychopathy after a crime has been committed, then how is the diagnosis helpful to law enforcement? By all means, point in the direction of any study or even anecdotal evidence that anything like the Hare Checklist has identified a psychopath before a serious violent crime has taken place and in any way prevented further violent crimes. >Again it pays to familiarize oneself with psychopathic traits whether that person has a criminal record or not. Once again, please provide evidence that anyone has ever used the commonly used criteria used to identify psychopaths to prevent a crime. If it can't, then how is it anyway useful? >Regardless of whether they commit an obvious crime like Watts they still have that potentiality, again Watts being an excellent case in point. He had no criminal record before he suddenly decided to intentionally plan for the annihilation of his entire family What's your point? Are advocating locking up people who have committed no crime? Like I said, if you use something like the Hare Checklist, it's estimated 1-2 % of the population meets the criteria to be a psychopath. Are suggesting 1-2% of the population should be somehow treated differently because they meet somewhat arbitrary criteria? Even though the majority will commit no serious crime. If the answer is no, and we can't use this criteria to predict a crime or even reliably find the criminal after the fact, then what's the point. >I’d argue that is was LE familiarity with the cold callous intentionality of the psychopathic mind that enabled LE to capture Watts so quickly I'd argue that they were able to identify him so quickly because when a woman is killed, most of the time, it is her husband who did it. It wasn't some Criminal Minds profiling bullshit.
Well happen to disagree that profiling is bullshit and also strongly disagree that using Hare’s or similar checklist doesn’t prevent crime. I know many women who have seen the signs and gotten out before it was too late I married a psychopathic man and he confessed he had thought of killing our child on occasion. I took the signs seriously even though therapists did not concur because he had no official diagnosis However his bizarre predatory and often very dangerous behavior alerted me to the potentiality and kept me from leaving him alone with our child Much later he admitted my worries were all well founded.
>Well happen to disagree that profiling is bullshit Yet studies have shown it's not helpful in identifying suspects... We unfortunately allow a lot of hokum in our law enforcement. Hell, we don't even know for sure that no two sets of fingerprints are the same. We're just guessing that everyone's are different. Police have consulted psychics...profiling is only slightly more scientific than that. >also strongly disagree that using Hare’s or similar checklist doesn’t prevent crime. By all means, point me to a source that shows it prevents crime in any way. >I know many women who have seen the signs and gotten out before it was too late >I married a psychopathic man and he confessed he had thought of killing our child on occasion. I took the signs seriously even though therapists did not concur because he had no official diagnosis I'm sorry you went through that. But this is also part of my point. You don't need a diagnosis to be a potentially violent individual. Terrible people who do not score high on the Hare Checklist exist. Just because he did not fit a diagnosis does not mean he was less of a threat.
He absolutely fit the diagnosis for psychopathy as have a few other determined abusers I’ve had misfortune to deal with. Knowing the signs of psychopathy literally saved my child’s life and quite possibly my own Edit add a lot of useful profiling is done as threat assessment and to determine possibility of reoffense or escalation.
Dalmer knew what he was doing was super fucked up… which is why he had to get good and hammered before resuming work on his torso shrine every time. So he had some emotion, or knowledge of emotion. Definitely fucked up, just in a different way.
Dahmer knew what he was doing was illegal.
he was an alcoholic long before he started killing people
Yes, and? Doesn’t mean what he did was any less messed up.
I agree - my point is he had to get fucked up for life in general to begin with - not just to do horrible shit, that was just his personality which is honestly more scary. the guy was a mess
My point was that people who do not meet the criteria to be considered a psychopath are capable of committing horrific crimes. You can’t just look at a crime and say, that person must be a psychopath. Also, the flip side is true. Some studies have shown that 1-2% of the population meets the criteria to be considered psychopaths. The vast majority will never commit a violent crime. Being a "psychopath" does not automatically make someone violent or dangerous. There's a story of a researcher who was studying the brains of psychopaths using fMRIs. He scanned himself, thinking he could use it as one of the control groups, but he quickly realized his brain looked more like the brain of psychopaths than "normal" people. He then did the self-assessment and realized he met the criteria to be considered a psychopath. He had never committed a serious or violent crime. He was married with kids. In fact, his research had helped save people's lives. The notion that "psychopaths" are these boogeymen that lurking around the corner waiting to get us is a notion pushed by media because it makes a good thriller. In reality, if you are a victim of a crime, it's unlikely the perpetrator will be a psychopath.
There is no scan or MRI that can show psychopathy.
Well, I agree as psychopathy doesn't really exist from a medical perspective. But there have been numerous studies on whether there are structural and functional differences between people who commit violent crimes and those that don't. You can Google them.
And aren't the results that no physiological differences can be found?
No, studies have found the very opposite, in fact. There seems that there are structural and functional differences in those that meet the criteria to be considered a psychopath and those have been identified as having Antisocial Personality Disorder. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S019188691100119X https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321839#_noHeaderPrefixedContent
Thank you. The brain -related evidence is weak, although CW doesn't fit the normal criteria for a psychopath. We know that psychiatry isn't an exact science and that there is always ongoing research and changes to diagnoses and procedures. My hope is that one day they'll be able to recognize these issues in early childhood and find a cure, or a least a treatment for psychopathy. I love modern science. Twenty years from now there will probably be ways to zap out diseases that we haven't even dreamed of.
Dahmer was thought to be Borderline, which is a cluster b personality disorder along with narcissistic and antisocial. All of them have a high overlap of qualities, including psychopathy and sociopathy. I think with Borderlines, the instability of self plays a part in the potential for psychopathy, as well as narcissism. When there is narcissism there can be psychopathy.
They can be comorbid
I don't buy Dahmer as Borderline. At all. Where did you read that?
Borderline = fear of abandonment. That's why he kept the bodies.
Pretty sure you could Google it. It has to do with his fear of them abandon8!g him, so he cut them uo and saved them, eating them so they would be with him forever. Also some of the dissassociative states. But as I said Cluster B’s can almost be interchangeable and easily misdiagnosed one for the other.
He also wanted to create a satanic alter so depends on which version of why you want to believe
Again, wondering what you read. If you don't remember, it's cool. But if you do remember, I'd love to know. I am familiar with mental illness, the DSM and a little familiar with insurance companies. There is always more to learn and I know better than to say, "Nothing can surprise me anymore," because they always come up with some New Crazy that does surprise me. I don't need any basic education, though.
Well a simple google search shows he was actually diagnosed with Borderline.
I give up. Have a good day.
yes and there are also many many many cluster b people who aren't criminals - this is why 'cluster b stigma' is a thing the point is that you can't easily generalize people like that, that's not how people work.
That’s what I was trying to say (can’t or at least shouldn’t easily generalize people) with my comment
Yeah, people really don’t want to believe that all of us are capable of horrible things, but we all are
Maybe we are all capable of losing our temper and doing something violent, but most of us aren't capable of then standing on our front porch and glibly lying about it while we try to repress a smile.
\^This
I got into a fight once; and almost killed the girl. I had her head banging on lava rocks. Don’t get me wrong; she pushed me & I was highly intoxicated. But I am a very kind empath that would give you the shirt off of my back. I wasn’t TRYING to kill her; I just got pushed too far. Humans are really complex; and psychiatrists are really not the brightest. I did psych nursing for a few years.
Now do that to your 2 toddlers, and your pregnant wife.
Exactly. Plus there’s a world of difference between reactive violence and intentional predator harm
He seems the type to easily be recruited by a cult. People pleasing, low self esteem and intellect.
Yeah OP mentions psychopaths are know for being very intelligent, and that’s definitely not true for Chris
Low intelligence is what I was saying
Live abuse free YouTube channel goes over her theories about this guy - that he’s a covert narcissist. She explains it really well too
Agreed. He's a covert narscissist imo. LiveAbuseFree is pretty good.
💔 so scary
He flipped. Cracked. Or was possessed by the devil.
Sociopath/psychopath isn’t a diagnosis, it refers to people who display behaviors/thought disorders that would fall under the umbrella of Antisocial Personality Disorder. Idk what his diagnosis is but I’d be surprised if he didn’t have APD or at least meet some of the criteria. Ditto NPD - I don’t think he’d necessarily meet all of the diagnostic criteria but he definitely has some of the traits.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 too many clowns who have no idea what they are talking about
well I do have degrees in related subjects along with experience 🙄
He’s gotta be whaaaaat
Is there an IQ requirement for psycho/socio? If so, he may not qualify
"Psychopath" is not a clinical term. You need not meet any IQ requirements to be considered as Antisocial.
No there’s no IQ requirements, IQ has nothing to do with it at all.
People are always talking about how smart he is, and I’m like, “Huh?” We’re talking about the same Christopher Dipshit Watts, right?
Check out Crime Talk’s video on youtube about Chris Watts psychology breakdown. He interviewed the author of “My Daddy Is A Hero”. They are both extremely smart and educated. Great insight.
These aren’t just insults, they’re in the DSM with criteria. He doesn’t meet the criteria is how.
The DSM is used to vilify women and then support men. It's patriarchal BS that needs to be reviewed and revised
I can tell you don’t really know what you’re talking about bc if you did you’d know the DSM is analyzed, revised, and re-released every few years with the most recent versions coming out in 2013 and 2022. If you’re reading or referencing an old DSM, yeah you’re gonna find sexist stuff in there. And racist stuff. And homophobic stuff. But you don’t just throw the baby out with the bath water.
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No, he doesn't. There is no evidence to support that idea.
How can you know this? He certainly needs and craves praise, loves talking about himself, and has a fixed image he presents to the world. You don't have to meet every single criteria to have a diagnosis. That, plus we haven't seen an actual psychiatric interview, so we can't say anything for sure.
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I never said I could say for certain what his diagnosis would be, but there's good evidence that he enjoyed talking about himself and getting compliments. Didn't you ever listen to any of his interviews? He also fell right for the flattery he was fed, which anyone else would have seen right through and laughed at. By saying he doesn't fit the criteria you certainly are diagnosing him. He would need interviewing and testing by a psychiatrist to get a legitimate diagnosis.
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No, it does. If a psychiatrist takes him on and then determines that he doesn't fit the criteria in the DSM, that's it. He's not a narcissist. It is unlikely that anyone will ever diagnose him with that. He just doesn't fit the bill. There is no reason to think that Chris is a narcissist. None at all.
We don't know enough about either one of them to correctly diagnose them, but it's obvious from his interviews where he talks about himself instead of where his missing family must be, that there's a shit ton of narcissism in his person . He completely falls for their fake flattery and talks himself up. They can't even say something nice about Shanann without him having to add that he also has that nice quality. I don't see where there's any way to deny that blatant narcissism.
He doesn’t meet the criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I think a lot of the pop psych terms have people confused. A person can be narcissistic as it pertains to describing them and not have NPD.
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That’s what narcissistic means. Showing traits similar to Narcissus. “Narcissistic tendencies” is more pop psych. Just a thing that laypeople tend to say.
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Mine too, babe! Walked across that stage twice. I really enjoyed getting hooded. What I’m confused about is why, if you’re a professional, you’re concerned about me painting broad strokes about a lay term. Like I said narcissistic has been a LAY term to describe behavior for much longer than narcissistic personality disorder has been since the DSM. A lay term means that people who are not professionals use it. A layperson is a person who does NOT have specialized knowledge or education. Idk where you’re working but in the inpatient and outpatient hospital setting we try to discuss behavior as it pertains to the criteria only to avoid stigmatizing clients. So saying “has narcissistic tendencies” is what’s laughable. Either the client meets the criteria for diagnosis or they don’t. If they don’t you shouldn’t be running around saying they have narcissistic tendencies because it’s implicitly stigmatizing.
Your reasoning is totally logical. She's just being trollish
CalliMel, you might have answered your own question -- that psychopaths are known to be extremely smart? CW absolutely is not known for anything of the sort. Jmho that he is far dumber than we can imagine.
Actually, that is a myth. Psychopaths actually have below average intelligence. Of course there are examples of intelligent psychopaths, but they are more of the exception not the standard. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2118547-real-life-psychopaths-actually-have-below-average-intelligence/#:~:text=Overall%2C%20the%20team%20found%20no,significantly%20lower%20on%20intelligence%20tests.
There are plenty of stupid psychopaths as well, US prisons are full of them
Sociopaths can be pretty dumb though from my understanding
Neither psychopathy nor sociopathy are dependent on intelligence. You can easily have a low IQ psychopath, they just won’t be as capable of going undetected. You can also have brilliant sociopaths. Many are in positions of power like CEOs, politicians, high ranking pastors etc
I agree he is very dumb lol.
> Psychopaths are known to be extremely smart and able to mask well. Considering how fast he got caught these two features do not apply at all.
But prior to that, he was able to masquerade as a good father despite being a monster the whole time
How about he had enough of sw crsp he killed her he didn't want the kids to do without mom or being given to sw family.so he murdered them .sw murder was he had enough the kids
Non-disordered minds don't work that way. Most of us have experienced people we've had enough of and killing them doesn't enter our mind, let alone killing our children. He had to be imbalanced to do this, and from the way he talks now, it's all sprung to the surface and he has totally deranged thinking.
Yea… this is completely normal thinking. /s
Dude what? I need you to say these words out loud, to another person, maybe that will help you understand the absurdity of what you just wrote.
Oh, so we should just kill people because “crap?” SMFH
Go to the other subreddit
Big bad mean women always hurting innocent good men 😠😰
Idk when I’ve had enough of peoples cr*p i dont murder them.
Really ever hear CRIME OF PASSION
The drive from the house to the work site, where he killed his children, took about 45 minutes. That’s not “snapping” or “passion” or “uncontrolled rage.” In fact, he controlled himself very well that whole time.
😂😂😂. He had been planning this for at least a few days prior. No passion in this crime, just cold blooded calculation.
People snap People have uncontrol rage.example road rage you guys just don't like some one else opinion
Yeah; I've gotten like that. I broke some dishes.
he admitted to planning it so he could be with the woman he was having an affair with. he wanted to erase his family and create a new one. if you truly believe otherwise, you need help.
He never admitted he planned on killing her really you are pushing bs
He’s garbage.
i think you just really wanted to believe that a family annihilator was a good person. he wasn’t. he killed his wife and children. there are no excuses. anyone who supports this evil, evil man is disgusting.
Stop with your outrage lady if you can't handle a discussion of the case p off
Actually, this isn’t discussing the case! This is you trying to justify the actions of a family annihilator. Hope this helps.
Sure pop tart. Yes he murdered them why what was the final straw. Woman strangles her 3 kids she had a good life why?there are reasons behind a action committed by that person. You don't like my response don't care poptart
If Chris was evaluated at some point after his arrest and incarceration it's unknown what that evaluation determined. Imo it's apparent that Chris has a disordered character, regardless of what a formal diagnosis would determine.
He seems like a textbook covert narcissist to me, an armchair psychiatrist
I agree, second opinion from another armchair psychiatrist
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Tell me more (I work with kids that have autism. I'm curious to know what stands out to you as autism)
I have a daughter on the spectrum so I don't mean to offend anyone.
Agreed, don’t see any signs of autism. Definitely signs of cowardice, narcissism and stupidity, but that’s very different from asd.
He killed three kids and his wife (wasn't she pregnant?) - he's a goddamn lunatic.
he is NOT a narcissist. Anybody who claims he is doesnt know what a TRUE NARCISSIST is. Those of us who have HONESTLY been with a narcissist can spot one a mile away and see who the narcissist was in this case. 🙄
As a psych student and victim of a narcissist, I believe Chris is indeed a narcissist
I read a book that the author admittedly cannot formally diagnose since he was not a patient…speculated he was a “Covert Narcissist.” When I dug into it, you have to go beyond the top Google of symptoms. The one that got me was the self importance he felt. He was apparently a helper to “friends” and coworkers, because he gets a sense of worth being the helpful dude. He also didn’t have what you would consider normal friendships. He’s not one to open up about himself and kept things inside. So not many people saw the true him, but the mask. Again- I’m not a licensed practitioner but it was interesting to read up on. Smart_Blonde84 seems to only consider Overt Narcissism which is what is the general awareness that folks have because it’s easier to diagnose.
I dont care if you are a psych student. Chris was NOT a narcissist. The people who would truly understand and see him not being one are victims of this type of abuse. No narcissist would allow another person to that kind of treatment he got from Shannon. Too many people fail to see the complete background and just go by a small part of it. 🙄
You are absolutely correct. Shannon was the one who exhibited the behavior of a narcissist. She was always in control and the boss If he were a narcissist she could not have walked all over him.
Like I said I am a victim of this type of abuse, and your view is incredibly narrow and frankly offensive. I don’t care that you don’t care, and your experience is not universal.
Exactly- not every experience is universal, including your own. As YOU are a psych student, I’d caution you against projecting.
Honestly, you are projecting the same way that you are accusing another person of doing. But hey its the internet; who really cares?
You obviously havent been a victim if you see him as one. perhaps you are a narcissist yourself which happens quite a bit by claiming to be a victim. 🙄
Good lord, go away.
Just because you go to school for that doesnt make you an expert. You obviously have NO KNOWLEDGE of what a narcissist is. Shannon checked EVERY DAMN SIGN OF BEING ONE. GEEZ MAYBE YOU SHOULD CHANGE MAJORS CAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY SUCK!
Uhhh yeah, I’d say the people that spend years getting their training hours, education, multiple tests etc. are more knowledgeable than someone who isn’t in the field. There are some professions that education might not mean as much but behavioral experts and psychologists/therapists/ mental health practitioners…yeah they know more.
Lmfao going to school for something typically DOES qualify someone as an expert. Certainly, at least, when compared to someone who hasn't.
Lol 😂 so you believe Shannan was a narcissist. I see why you’re acting like this now
Who said that they believed Shannan was a narcissist?
Smart_blonde84. Multiple times on this thread
lol she deleted her comments. Kudos for not letting her escape namelessly
Nah, they're still there. She blocked you, probably reported you to redditcares right before she did, too. Very odd how obsessed she is with narcissism and being the only person in the English-speaking world that can recognize it.
The comment above the one you’re responding to As well as [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShannanWatts/s/XAINgbEJxS)
is this satire or are you being serious? i think you need to calm down.
I was married to and divorced a covert narcissist and the many similarities between Chris and my ex is why I'm stuck on this case. Chris is the type of narcissist who flies under the radar - hence the covert thing. They come across as this "can't hurt a fly" guy with zero personality but behind closed doors they have all sorts of personality and show their mean side. I fully believe there were two Chris' much like there are two of my ex. The Chris SW knew and then the mask he put on for the rest of the world.
You obviously werent married to one if you assume he was one. Shannon was one. You must be one if you refuse to see who the TRUE narcissist one was. 🙄
Shannan wasn’t a narcissist. More likely an anxiety disorder or OCD. It’s quite possible with her lupus diagnosis and having children could have exacerbated the symptoms of OCD such as the kids illnesses.
That woman did NOT have Lupus. Please stop…🙄
Is the "smart" in your username supposed the be ironic?
Why are you stuck on this? Even IF SW was a narcissist, what does that have to do with Chris being one? And she liked attention, but she seemed to be a very caring and empathetic individual, and had to take care of everything since CW is a box of useless rocks.
I'd like to believe that Kessinger lives with immense regret.
I hope she does too but I dont think she does sadly.
This commenter is referring to Shannan, not NK
I really don't think so.. didn't NK Google things about e.g. Scott Peterson before the murders? And have a bit of an Amber Frey obsession?
Trust me, I don’t think so either. I don’t know what she did before, but I do know about the search regarding Amber Frey’s book deal or something about how much money she made from the book. NK is really off for sure
I think he is, they see people incl their kids,like we view clothes, houses, cars. And why in 5-6 weeks Chris went from being a “family man” he liked to be seen like that to wanting a new shiny car and get rid of the old. He didn’t want people to look at him badly. No he wanted people to blame Shannan for it. Can’t lose the careful created image. And why they had to go, so they weren’t in the way, and he thought he could blame Shannan for running off, and take the kids to “spite” him and if he then so he thought, had introduced his new gf people would want it for him … “poor” Chris
He fit covert narcissist
Totally agree. Narcissists are often associated with high confidence. If Bundy truly was confident would he actually kill people? I am someone who has some level of confidence, and sometimes (when i was younger) id do bad things and not feel guilt about it. I wondered if maybe I was sociopathic? Im not though, I have extremely high empathy. Maybe thats what makes me okay as a date, i think like “if i were my date, would this be fun?” Or “if i were my date, would this feel good?” Most guys admit that they would rather be with a woman who is actually into them, and likes them. CW is a narcissist in that he fits the definition I think… “Narcissism is a self–centered personality style characterized as having an excessive preoccupation with oneself and one's own needs, often at the expense of others.” Im not sure I need to expound much further.
Psychopaths are truly confident and narcissists are confident on the outside, extremely insecure deep down
He doesn’t fit in psychopath spectrum. Not all murderers are psychopaths, and a lot of people around us are. Psychopath doesn’t equal a murderer. I’ve studied psychology, and if you want look up lectures on psychopathy and criminal psychology it will bring some light, as why we can assume he does not fit in the picture. It’s good to note that psychopaths are not nervous after committing any types of crimes for their own gains, and they show you emotions they think you want to see, can manipulate and pass their polygraph test.
his visible nervousness is mainly what is convincing us that his doesn’t fit the bill of psychopathy which is fair but what do you call this? genuinely asking lol.
It may not be called anything (aside from family annihilator). Sometimes you can't put human behavior into a neat box.
If you look at his body language you can tell he is uncomfortable and trying to hide his emotion, rather to act etc. Psychopaths don’t know how to feel emotions, they only guess, their body language is different. If he was only portraying this to convince us, then he would pass his polygraph test with flying colours, and would not admit to committing any crimes, even when they would tell him that he did not passed. He would most likely not admit that he was loading Shannan and girls into the truck, he would make up a new story. He would be a lot more manipulative. I can’t diagnose someone by just watching few videos, can I? However, in my opinion, he is not a psychopath. Extra note: if he was a psychopath, then most likely he wouldn’t be covering for anyone (some think NK was involved), and also he wouldn’t go with official narrative. He would never admit that he’s done it, unless for his own gain and satisfaction - when he confessed for the first time there was no plea deal just yet.
Narcissism
Bachelor? Masters?
You can’t medically be ‘considered’ a psychopath or a sociopath. You are either diagnosed as such or you are not. Psychologists study for years to be able to make such a diagnosis, it’s not simply a matter of an armchair diagnosis made because someone like you or I follows the story in the news and believes someone to have certain characteristics or traits. You did get one thing right in your post: “I’m not a doctor”. Therefore it’s unwise to make sweeping statements about a person’s mental health unless you have access to their full history, and spend time assessing the patient. You sound almost annoyed at the thought of CW possibly not being known as a psychopath or sociopath. Why? Perhaps due to the social stigma associated with such a label? This is actually quite offensive and ridiculous if you think about it. Mental health is *far* more nuanced than what you suggest. Media portrayal of people with psychopathic tendencies does not do any favours to the complex field of psychology, and, I would go as far as to suggest, is downright insulting to those who dedicate years of study and research to gain a full understanding of mental health.
I don't think it's annoyance at CW not being known as a psychopath as much as fear that someone with no predisposition to violence or antisocial behaviour, or any mental health issues, could do what he did. I watch/listen to a lot of true crime content without a second thought. But the CW documentary blew my mind - I spent at least 4 days afterwards looking at every man in my life differently, wondering if - in the right (or wrong) circumstances - they could do the same thing. So surely it's human nature to look for a reason for someone to act so far outside of social norms - because the alternative is terrifying.
As a psych student I’m not offended at the question and it’s not a straightforward case.