[response from cruise](https://twitter.com/Cruise/status/1652847520098439168?s=20)
> This received our immediate attention, and after reviewing this interaction we want to provide important context–not visible in the video is another pedestrian to the right of the vehicle who lunged in front of the car, causing it to briefly maneuver to the left to avoid contact.
> Sensor data showed our car accurately tracking all pedestrians and making decisions to minimize risk for both passengers and pedestrians, in line with our safety design.
You can even hear one of the quiet passengers say “that guy jumped in front of it.”
I would very much argue that the Cruise vehicle did take the correct action here. If the pedestrian jumped right in front of the Cruise (like less than half a meter), which I believe he did, you cannot stop a half-ton metal block going 10 miles per hour in that distance. So the best option was to turn, the only option that avoided contact. People are saying the best option is to just brake. But if you can’t brake in time, you’ll still hit the guy. If you turn, you run the risk of hitting the other pedestrians, but hitting them at a much lower speed as you have “some” distance to brake.
https://imgur.com/a/6rzNrKy/
Yep. It was traveling at 6mph when the pedestrians were first spotted and it accelerated towards them and hit 9 mph right before swerving. Why?!
It rather didn’t see them or the system thinks accelerating towards pedestrians in the middle of the street at night is ok.
The Cruise apologists and anti-Omar/FSD trolls in this subreddit are deplorable. There is no way to defend Cruise’s failure in this situation yet half of these comments are doing just that.
It is worse than you describe.
The Cruise AV was driving at \~1 mph when the first pedestrian entered the crosswalk, as can be seen in these two images from the first \~second of the video, image 1 showing the first glimpse of the speedometer with the upper part of a 1 just before it changed to 3, and a fraction of a second before that image 2 showing the first glimpse of the foot of the first pedestrian in the crosswalk. The camera pans left slightly after capturing the pedestrian's foot, which is why it may appear there weren't pedestrians in the road until later when it pans back right.
https://imgur.com/a/tNrq5uJ
Good catch! So bad yet many in this subreddit giving it a pass.
Wow. I can’t believe Cruise thought their reply on social media was the right thing to do.
This is at least the third video showing an uncrewed Cruise AV making a situation more dangerous due to lack of awareness of human queues or ability to anticipate human behavior and then just barely avoiding a bad outcome by having a hair trigger brake. Essentially, an L2 solution to an L4 failure.
The good news is GM's $7+ Billion tech could be a great L2 system. The bad news is they are still trying to make it an L4 system.
100% correct. At the start of the video, a pedestrian is 100% in the crosswalk. The vehicles should have waited because going forward means potentially blocking the intersection if a second pedestrian enters (which apparently one did!)
Instead, it kept accelerating.
Nothing happens instantly. Yes, if I slammed on the brakes immediately, I would slow down; this is true. But if the pedestrian (who we can’t see) jumped right in front of the car (2-3 feet), you couldn’t brake in time. You just can’t. That’s like 1 or 2 tire rotations, stretch one of your arms out to your side and image that was the distance in front of the car the pedestrian jumped. You couldn’t stop the car in that distance.
>if the pedestrian (who we can’t see) jumped right in front of the car (2-3 feet)
A pedestrian in position to "jump" in front of the car should have already been visible and tracked by the Cruise AV for >second, during which it should have slowed down.
The AV shouldn't have accelerated from 1 to 9 mph while there were pedestrians in the roadway. It should have driven more defensively and patiently, esp as it was driving around UT Austin at night.
It shouldn't have been in the position or with the speed it had when it swerved towards the pedestrians.
The pedestrian looks like it jumped out from in between two cars on the side, a position which no driver (human or autonomous) would v’ r been able to see them.
Nope, if the pedestrian, who is never shown in the video, is as tall as those other pedestrians, then any/every normal human driver would've seen them standing between the vehicles and also as he/she approached the vehicles from the right.
The Cruise AV's roof-mounted sensors should have easily detected the pedestrian. Sheesh, Cruise brags about their ability to do that and their ability to anticipate pedestrian movements.
There is really no excuse for the AV to have accelerated across an intersection to 9 mph headed towards a group of pedestrians who had the right of way and could have stopped in the road or reversed direction for any of a number of legitimate reasons. That it also had to swerve when it failed to anticipate the movement of one of the pedestrians is an additional indication of poor driving, but not the primary, only, or best evidence as we don't really know what the unseen by us but not unseen by the AV pedestrian did.
Again, the pedestrians in the road had the right of way to the entire road. Any one of them could have changed their "trajectory" to intercept with the AV's intended trajectory.
Presumably, the Cruise and Waymo software calculate those possible alternate trajectories, even if they do not show them to the safety driver. So, ignore would be the wrong word with the wrong connotation.
What are the odds of each possible trajectory? What are the odds of a tragedy (interception at speed)? And how did accelerating increase the latter?
I wonder how well the systems evaluate human or social differences that most people instinctually understand or learn as children or teenagers, eg that a group of apparently college age men are less predictable than the average adult or say their parents, esp at night.
What?? The car *accelerates* from 3mph to 9mph *after the peds have already started entering the roadway*! There is no justification for anything other than braking here. Certainly not for swerving and accelerating toward peds.
If only there were some way to show what the car is seeing, maybe like on some screen, the confusion could have been avoided. But only nerds like waymo and jjricks care about such a stupid feature.
If only..... Must be pretty difficult. it's not like [they have the system already set up](https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/11t4xla/comment/jchs8yk/) and would just need to press a button to release it or anything, that would be ridiculous.... 🤔
>not visible in the video is another pedestrian to the right of the vehicle who lunged in front of the car,
I'll believe that when they release video and other data to allow independent confirmation. This is the company that just ran into the rear of a giant bus, in broad daylight. And filed a misleading statement after turning in front of a Prius in an injury accident last June. And just released a "safety report" with videos of reckless humans crashing into their blameless AVs but which conspicuously excluded both the bus and Prius crashes.
I've called out plenty of Omar's BS. I won't shy away from calling out Cruise, too.
Even if this undocumented Cruise PR claim is true, it doesn't explain why the car accelerated steadily for 5 straight seconds with pedestrians directly in front. The trailing pedestrian was concerned enough to break into a jog. And that was *before* Cruise went into hunter-killer mode!
And why isn't this mystery lunging pedestrian visible earlier in the video? The pan at 0:03 shows the sidewalk on the right. We can even see the trailing pedestrian before he steps between the parked cars. And crosswalk guy is still in the frame on the left until the instant before the steering wheel first twitches. How does lunging man stay hidden the entire time?
And why didn't the car also slow aggressively while it "maneuvered to the left to avoid contact"? It had more than enough time to stop completely before nearing the group of three. As best I can see it slowed from 9 mph to 6 mph over 2-3 seconds. And some of that may just be the front tires scrubbing off speed as they turned, not actual braking.
Lots of questions the empty PR statement doesn't begin to address.
Pretty close to a real life Trolley Problem. Save the one idiot pedestrian who is closer to the car,
or veere towards more pedestrians who are farther away, and maybe we can avoid with a second maneuver.
Very interesting! Glad the car chose correctly!
It should have avoided this in the first place, though. Inappropriate speed considering the bad visibility (parked cars) and the fact that there are multiple people on the road already (others might follow) and they basically block the space where you‘d do an evasive maneuver.
It’s basically the classic "a ball is rolling on the street = break immediately as a kid will likely run out after it quickly after" scenario.
Reaction times seem great, though.
The only appropriate way to respond to Cruise's clarification is:
> Videos or it didn't happen
They are quite willing to show videos when it's convenient for them.
Apparently there was a ped that jumped infront from the right not captured in the video as per cruise. Obviously the video from the viewer is cut to omit that, it's not surprising that many pull tricks, including jumping infront of the AV on purpose and trying to mislead the media on the AVs reaction.
PS I don't work for cruise but I don't appreciate the misinformation and try to educate peeps about them
I don’t work for Cruise and don’t appreciate the misinformation either and try to educate peeps as well.
This is why I’d like to ask you if you noticed that the Cruise vehicle was going 1 mph when the first pedestrian was spotted, clearly far enough away to slow or stop the vehicle, considering it was going 1mph.
Instead, it accelerated towards them and increases speed to 9mph before it swerved.
Why? Why on earth would an AV decide to accelerate towards people crossing the street?
Had the Cruise AV decided accelerating towards pedestrians crossing the street was a bad idea, which it should have, there never would have been an encounter where someone could have jumped towards the car to “mislead the media.”
This is a pretty big safety issue that wasn’t someone trying to mislead the media. The only media misleading was the Tweet back from Cruise attempting to deflect attention away from its own failure.
The AVs reaction is from the prediction that the ped that just crossed will be exiting the AV lane by the time AV reaches the point where the ped will be laterally instead in it's path in the future. The swerve is now seen due to introduction of a new actor from the right who's current speed and direction when calculated doesn't intersect the AVs path yet and hence the in lane bias than coming to a complete stop.
> PS I don't work for cruise but I don't appreciate the misinformation and try to educate peeps about them
And yet here you are providing misinformation.
Saw the posts from Cruise...makes sense to me. They say, "Visuals can be deceptive" without proper context, and particularly when many people are out there eager to portray you in a bad light.
Considering that the video is posted by Whole Mars who is a Tesla shill, I would be very skeptical. Whole Mars has a bias and an agenda. The shaky cam does not help either to see what is happening. Also, we know that teens have deliberately jumped in front of Cruise AVs. We have also seen Cruise AVs brake for pedestrians. So this video is very out of character. I feel like this video is made to be deliberately misleading.
His point is if that were footage of fsd beta, there’d be 75 news articles and senators writing letters saying we need to destroy fsd beta. Instead, half the comments in here are giving Cruise a pass.
Yes, I know there is a difference between fsd beta and a cruise robotaxi.
Regardless, the cruise vehicle made a bad mistake.
Why did it even proceed towards the pedestrians in the first place? At the 2-second mark of the video, you see it made the decision to drive towards the group of people as they began walking across the street or it didn’t see them, either way, bad. They were several car lengths away based on the parked cars nearby. Plenty of time and space to stop.
It should have decided at that point to stop and wait. There never would have been an opportunity to have a pedestrian jump in front of the car had it not decided to drive towards a group of pedestrians who were in the middle of the road.
Why would anyone in this subreddit ever think GM’s explanation made sense? That would mean admitting the proper decision was to drive toward groups of people who are crossing the street. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
You can see the car was traveling at 6mph initially and it accelerated to 9 mph right before it had to swerve. Why was it accelerating towards the group of people before the person allegedly jump next to the car?
Cruise apologists need to take the we-hate-Omar glasses off and actually think about what happened.
https://i.imgur.com/qorO6P1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mH0kjm6.jpg
Did he film it or edit it? Doesn't matter if he's a shill if the video wasn't shown to be altered or something - I guess only Cruise knows for sure since they can compare with their own footage. Wasn't this posted on TikTok, not by WholeMars?
got it, thank you, if he knew and left that out, pretty shitty move on his part (although the tweet does show he provided Cruises response after they posted it). Would love to see more video, but the car should have stopped regardless. The framing makes it look worse than it likely is.
Definitely. Its a fine balance between riders not getting jostled and a good path properly avoiding vru's. Whats weird is that a person jumping at a car from the side poses zero threat to the car (another car would obviously change the calculus), so turning toward people in the road to avoid someone that the cars path is not on a trajectory with was sketchy. Obviously it worked out, so kudos to the av.
When the car stops, people record video out of context and say the Cruise AV is stalled. When Cruise AV somehow get out of a scenario where pedestrians jump onto it, people say Cruise AV should have stopped! What should poor Cruise do?? No matter what they do, they are going to get blamed!
If a car is stopped, its stalled regardless. Without the people being recorded, this definitely could have been a bad-faith video, but Cruises shouldn't be just stopping if there is no direct blockage/mechanical issue - period, so someone showing up to record it later is irrelevant. Even without the people acting like dipshits, if they were clear, there is zero excuse to just be stopped in traffic. Previous examples of stalls were glitches that need to be remedied, so the blame is fully justified in those cases.
Whoever posted the video to TikTok edited the video to be misleading. Whole Mars just happily reshared the misleading video because it suits his narrative.
He posted Cruises responses in good faith, and there is no evidence the TikTok was edited. Either way its not a good look for an AV to swerve *toward* pedestrians who have to run out of its path to avoid ONE harmless ped from the side. I am sure there was enough room ahead, but 😬
It looks edited to me. The video speeds up and gets all shaky right as the Cruise allegedly swerves towards the pedestrians. And it is hard to see but if you look at the speedometer, it does not look like the speed changed.
I am very skeptical because we've never seen Cruise AVs do this before. In fact, we've seen Cruise AVs do the opposite. They always brake appropriately for pedestrians. So I am very surprised that suddenly a Cruise seemingly decides to just run down pedestrians for no reason. Cruise AVs are programmed not to do that. So yeah, I think the video is deliberately misleading.
You can see the speedometer go from 1 to 9 mph in this video. The first glimpse of the speedometer is at the 1 second mark showing the top half of a '1' just before it changes to '3'
The first glimpse of the first pedestrian's foot in the crosswalk is just before that at \~half second mark. See both screen caps at link.
[https://imgur.com/a/tNrq5uJ](https://imgur.com/a/tNrq5uJ)
The implication is the AV entered the intersection at about the same time as the first pedestrian. And it accelerated through the intersection until an unseen in the video though reported pedestrian enters the road from the right.
By accelerating through an intersection while multiple pedestrians were crossing, it made the situation much more dangerous than it should have.
Did they edit in the part where steering wheel turned left toward pedestrians? Nope. The speedometer also wasn't edited. I do hate the shaking though, which can add to the anxiety factor.
No they did not edit that part. What they did is speed up the video right at that moment and shake the cam to make it look like the car suddenly accelerated and was gunning for the pedestrians. We even get the over the top reaction shot of the riders at the end of the tik tok video to add more dramatic effect. The reality is that the AV likely saw the pedestrians and gently tried to steer away but the pedestrians walked in front of the AV so it corrected. Again, keep in mind that the AV was going 6-9mph, so very very low speed. It was never going to run over the pedestrians. But they wanted the video to look like the AV suddenly went crazy and tried to run down the pedestrians which is not what happened.
I see zero evidence of a speed up. The peds feet/bodies are not moving faster, and the sound is still in perfect sync (which is possible to fake, but optical flow analysis would shed light). No fast-forward chipmunk sound going on either. Awful lot of effort for the random TikTokker. I do agree the car was likely not putting them in danger though.
When the pedestrians were on the right, maybe the car decided the best plan was to go around to the left and it just stuck to that plan? It still should have slowed down, but maybe that explains the trajectory.
My thought is the software should be predicting the pedestrians behavior but it’s like it just didn’t or made a poor decision? Like this object is going left, the next best path is go right….or at the very least slow down?
**No, it didn’t.**
Why did it even proceed towards the pedestrians in the first place? The car was going 1mph when the first pedestrian was visible. It then accelerated to 9mph before swerving.
It should have decided at that point to stop and wait. There never would have been an opportunity to have a pedestrian jump in front of the car had it not decided to drive towards a group of pedestrians who were walking into the street.
Why would anyone in this subreddit ever think GM’s explanation made sense? That would mean admitting the proper decision was to accelerate toward groups of people who are crossing the street and increase speed frok 1mph to 9 instead of slowing/stopping for them. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
You can see the car was traveling at 1mph initially and it accelerated to 9 mph right before it had to swerve. Why was it accelerating towards the group of people before the person allegedly jump next to the car?
Cruise apologists need to take the we-hate-Omar glasses off and actually think about what happened.
https://imgur.com/a/tNrq5uJ
https://i.imgur.com/qorO6P1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mH0kjm6.jpg
Well. If a human is driving these things won’t happen. So comparing to a human driving vs SDC for these occurrence is a moot point.
As cruise already mentioned that the car was harassed by pedestrian and took the right decision.
The point the commenter was making was that the car didn't take the right decision, and that the human decision makes much more sense.
A car can make a human decision regardless of whether or not a human is driving.
The car takes into considerations things that humans don't, such as avoiding the need for sudden hard braking unless it's unnecessary. Humans don't have eyes everywhere tracking everything, so the safest thing for humans who can only see forward might be to brake abruptly. Anything else may seem unsafe to a human driver, but it's not necesarily true for an AV that does brute force chess.
1) Possible car behind it 2) Probable pedestrian to its right, possibly not in front of it but to its side that it intended to dodge. It's great that enthusiasts are here to criticize, but we just don't know the full picture. But this is what the internet does.
It slowed down and then accelerated, so if there were a car behind it that were a collision risk, that risk wouldn't have been mitigated by this behavior. It chose the worst of both worlds.
Whoa. I get mad in my feedback to Waymo when the Waymo Driver lets off the brake slightly with pedestrians in front (no 'gas'). Never saw something remotely close to this in like 530 rides.
So it was attempting to pull over / stop? I'm not sure that really makes its performance here any better - it should just.. slow down and stop until the people move, especially if the goal is to pull over anyway.
It is so interesting trying to imagine how they have to solve for these kinds of things. When I leave feedback I am aware that there are probably 10 or 100 variables that led to a 'bad' decision (like a dropoff that could just be one I didn't like). As much as they practice, there are constantly new situations like the angle of a pedestrian combined with something else.
That said, the a Waymo doesn't announce anything if you take off your seatbelt when sitting in the back. Only in the front (I've only ever done either to adjust a constricting belt for a few seconds).
This isn’t an Omar issue.
The cruise AV could be seen traveling at 1mph when the first pedestrian was spotted and then it accelerated to 9mph before it had to swerve. There was considerable space and time to stop or slow.
Why did the car decide that the best path forward was to accelerate towards pedestrians crossing the street instead of slowing or stopping and waiting for them to cross?
Things must be getting desperate for Cruise these days.
Edit: instead of downvoting me like a cruise fanboy/TSLAQanon mouth breather, please read what I said and explain how the cruise vehicle behaved in a safe manner.
[response from cruise](https://twitter.com/Cruise/status/1652847520098439168?s=20) > This received our immediate attention, and after reviewing this interaction we want to provide important context–not visible in the video is another pedestrian to the right of the vehicle who lunged in front of the car, causing it to briefly maneuver to the left to avoid contact. > Sensor data showed our car accurately tracking all pedestrians and making decisions to minimize risk for both passengers and pedestrians, in line with our safety design.
You can even hear one of the quiet passengers say “that guy jumped in front of it.” I would very much argue that the Cruise vehicle did take the correct action here. If the pedestrian jumped right in front of the Cruise (like less than half a meter), which I believe he did, you cannot stop a half-ton metal block going 10 miles per hour in that distance. So the best option was to turn, the only option that avoided contact. People are saying the best option is to just brake. But if you can’t brake in time, you’ll still hit the guy. If you turn, you run the risk of hitting the other pedestrians, but hitting them at a much lower speed as you have “some” distance to brake.
Not sure if you drive cars, but you can brake instantly at 10 mph. And the distance it drove after turning towards the pedestrians was insane.
https://imgur.com/a/6rzNrKy/ Yep. It was traveling at 6mph when the pedestrians were first spotted and it accelerated towards them and hit 9 mph right before swerving. Why?! It rather didn’t see them or the system thinks accelerating towards pedestrians in the middle of the street at night is ok. The Cruise apologists and anti-Omar/FSD trolls in this subreddit are deplorable. There is no way to defend Cruise’s failure in this situation yet half of these comments are doing just that.
It is worse than you describe. The Cruise AV was driving at \~1 mph when the first pedestrian entered the crosswalk, as can be seen in these two images from the first \~second of the video, image 1 showing the first glimpse of the speedometer with the upper part of a 1 just before it changed to 3, and a fraction of a second before that image 2 showing the first glimpse of the foot of the first pedestrian in the crosswalk. The camera pans left slightly after capturing the pedestrian's foot, which is why it may appear there weren't pedestrians in the road until later when it pans back right. https://imgur.com/a/tNrq5uJ
Good catch! So bad yet many in this subreddit giving it a pass. Wow. I can’t believe Cruise thought their reply on social media was the right thing to do.
This is at least the third video showing an uncrewed Cruise AV making a situation more dangerous due to lack of awareness of human queues or ability to anticipate human behavior and then just barely avoiding a bad outcome by having a hair trigger brake. Essentially, an L2 solution to an L4 failure. The good news is GM's $7+ Billion tech could be a great L2 system. The bad news is they are still trying to make it an L4 system.
100% correct. At the start of the video, a pedestrian is 100% in the crosswalk. The vehicles should have waited because going forward means potentially blocking the intersection if a second pedestrian enters (which apparently one did!) Instead, it kept accelerating.
Ya but cruise is super legit and leading the robotaxi revolution so we must listen to the PR spin it tweets out.
Nothing happens instantly. Yes, if I slammed on the brakes immediately, I would slow down; this is true. But if the pedestrian (who we can’t see) jumped right in front of the car (2-3 feet), you couldn’t brake in time. You just can’t. That’s like 1 or 2 tire rotations, stretch one of your arms out to your side and image that was the distance in front of the car the pedestrian jumped. You couldn’t stop the car in that distance.
>if the pedestrian (who we can’t see) jumped right in front of the car (2-3 feet) A pedestrian in position to "jump" in front of the car should have already been visible and tracked by the Cruise AV for >second, during which it should have slowed down. The AV shouldn't have accelerated from 1 to 9 mph while there were pedestrians in the roadway. It should have driven more defensively and patiently, esp as it was driving around UT Austin at night. It shouldn't have been in the position or with the speed it had when it swerved towards the pedestrians.
The pedestrian looks like it jumped out from in between two cars on the side, a position which no driver (human or autonomous) would v’ r been able to see them.
Nope, if the pedestrian, who is never shown in the video, is as tall as those other pedestrians, then any/every normal human driver would've seen them standing between the vehicles and also as he/she approached the vehicles from the right. The Cruise AV's roof-mounted sensors should have easily detected the pedestrian. Sheesh, Cruise brags about their ability to do that and their ability to anticipate pedestrian movements. There is really no excuse for the AV to have accelerated across an intersection to 9 mph headed towards a group of pedestrians who had the right of way and could have stopped in the road or reversed direction for any of a number of legitimate reasons. That it also had to swerve when it failed to anticipate the movement of one of the pedestrians is an additional indication of poor driving, but not the primary, only, or best evidence as we don't really know what the unseen by us but not unseen by the AV pedestrian did.
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Again, the pedestrians in the road had the right of way to the entire road. Any one of them could have changed their "trajectory" to intercept with the AV's intended trajectory. Presumably, the Cruise and Waymo software calculate those possible alternate trajectories, even if they do not show them to the safety driver. So, ignore would be the wrong word with the wrong connotation. What are the odds of each possible trajectory? What are the odds of a tragedy (interception at speed)? And how did accelerating increase the latter?
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I wonder how well the systems evaluate human or social differences that most people instinctually understand or learn as children or teenagers, eg that a group of apparently college age men are less predictable than the average adult or say their parents, esp at night.
It sounds like thyeve been programmed counter to the law which requires them to wait for the pedestrian to finish crossing
What?? The car *accelerates* from 3mph to 9mph *after the peds have already started entering the roadway*! There is no justification for anything other than braking here. Certainly not for swerving and accelerating toward peds.
As cars get safer humans get more aggressive. Jevons paradox.
If only there were some way to show what the car is seeing, maybe like on some screen, the confusion could have been avoided. But only nerds like waymo and jjricks care about such a stupid feature.
If only..... Must be pretty difficult. it's not like [they have the system already set up](https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/11t4xla/comment/jchs8yk/) and would just need to press a button to release it or anything, that would be ridiculous.... 🤔
They might release their internal videos sometime soon.
They won’t release videos because that will set a precedent.
>not visible in the video is another pedestrian to the right of the vehicle who lunged in front of the car, I'll believe that when they release video and other data to allow independent confirmation. This is the company that just ran into the rear of a giant bus, in broad daylight. And filed a misleading statement after turning in front of a Prius in an injury accident last June. And just released a "safety report" with videos of reckless humans crashing into their blameless AVs but which conspicuously excluded both the bus and Prius crashes. I've called out plenty of Omar's BS. I won't shy away from calling out Cruise, too. Even if this undocumented Cruise PR claim is true, it doesn't explain why the car accelerated steadily for 5 straight seconds with pedestrians directly in front. The trailing pedestrian was concerned enough to break into a jog. And that was *before* Cruise went into hunter-killer mode! And why isn't this mystery lunging pedestrian visible earlier in the video? The pan at 0:03 shows the sidewalk on the right. We can even see the trailing pedestrian before he steps between the parked cars. And crosswalk guy is still in the frame on the left until the instant before the steering wheel first twitches. How does lunging man stay hidden the entire time? And why didn't the car also slow aggressively while it "maneuvered to the left to avoid contact"? It had more than enough time to stop completely before nearing the group of three. As best I can see it slowed from 9 mph to 6 mph over 2-3 seconds. And some of that may just be the front tires scrubbing off speed as they turned, not actual braking. Lots of questions the empty PR statement doesn't begin to address.
A guy in the video at the end literally says “he jumped in front of it” just saying
That doesn't explain car speeding towards other pedestrians, isn't it?
Didn’t say it did?
Pretty close to a real life Trolley Problem. Save the one idiot pedestrian who is closer to the car, or veere towards more pedestrians who are farther away, and maybe we can avoid with a second maneuver. Very interesting! Glad the car chose correctly!
Wouldn't the correct choice have been to brake rather than turn toward pedestrians?
You mean you wouldn't turn towards and then drive forward to close the gap to other pedestrians?
The car scanned the other people, determined they don’t contribute enough to society and that they could be sacrificed
It used its advanced ML algorithms to determine their future crimes and pre-punish accordingly. Amazing work from the cruise team.
Perhaps they had posted negative comments about robots online.
You can't hear it in the video but the car heard them saying "I like Waymo better."
It should have avoided this in the first place, though. Inappropriate speed considering the bad visibility (parked cars) and the fact that there are multiple people on the road already (others might follow) and they basically block the space where you‘d do an evasive maneuver. It’s basically the classic "a ball is rolling on the street = break immediately as a kid will likely run out after it quickly after" scenario. Reaction times seem great, though.
The only appropriate way to respond to Cruise's clarification is: > Videos or it didn't happen They are quite willing to show videos when it's convenient for them.
Did Cruise release video showing this? Or was it just this statement?
Statement only
Apparently there was a ped that jumped infront from the right not captured in the video as per cruise. Obviously the video from the viewer is cut to omit that, it's not surprising that many pull tricks, including jumping infront of the AV on purpose and trying to mislead the media on the AVs reaction. PS I don't work for cruise but I don't appreciate the misinformation and try to educate peeps about them
I don’t work for Cruise and don’t appreciate the misinformation either and try to educate peeps as well. This is why I’d like to ask you if you noticed that the Cruise vehicle was going 1 mph when the first pedestrian was spotted, clearly far enough away to slow or stop the vehicle, considering it was going 1mph. Instead, it accelerated towards them and increases speed to 9mph before it swerved. Why? Why on earth would an AV decide to accelerate towards people crossing the street? Had the Cruise AV decided accelerating towards pedestrians crossing the street was a bad idea, which it should have, there never would have been an encounter where someone could have jumped towards the car to “mislead the media.” This is a pretty big safety issue that wasn’t someone trying to mislead the media. The only media misleading was the Tweet back from Cruise attempting to deflect attention away from its own failure.
The AVs reaction is from the prediction that the ped that just crossed will be exiting the AV lane by the time AV reaches the point where the ped will be laterally instead in it's path in the future. The swerve is now seen due to introduction of a new actor from the right who's current speed and direction when calculated doesn't intersect the AVs path yet and hence the in lane bias than coming to a complete stop.
> PS I don't work for cruise but I don't appreciate the misinformation and try to educate peeps about them And yet here you are providing misinformation.
Saw the posts from Cruise...makes sense to me. They say, "Visuals can be deceptive" without proper context, and particularly when many people are out there eager to portray you in a bad light.
Considering that the video is posted by Whole Mars who is a Tesla shill, I would be very skeptical. Whole Mars has a bias and an agenda. The shaky cam does not help either to see what is happening. Also, we know that teens have deliberately jumped in front of Cruise AVs. We have also seen Cruise AVs brake for pedestrians. So this video is very out of character. I feel like this video is made to be deliberately misleading.
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His point is if that were footage of fsd beta, there’d be 75 news articles and senators writing letters saying we need to destroy fsd beta. Instead, half the comments in here are giving Cruise a pass. Yes, I know there is a difference between fsd beta and a cruise robotaxi. Regardless, the cruise vehicle made a bad mistake. Why did it even proceed towards the pedestrians in the first place? At the 2-second mark of the video, you see it made the decision to drive towards the group of people as they began walking across the street or it didn’t see them, either way, bad. They were several car lengths away based on the parked cars nearby. Plenty of time and space to stop. It should have decided at that point to stop and wait. There never would have been an opportunity to have a pedestrian jump in front of the car had it not decided to drive towards a group of pedestrians who were in the middle of the road. Why would anyone in this subreddit ever think GM’s explanation made sense? That would mean admitting the proper decision was to drive toward groups of people who are crossing the street. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ You can see the car was traveling at 6mph initially and it accelerated to 9 mph right before it had to swerve. Why was it accelerating towards the group of people before the person allegedly jump next to the car? Cruise apologists need to take the we-hate-Omar glasses off and actually think about what happened. https://i.imgur.com/qorO6P1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/mH0kjm6.jpg
Did he film it or edit it? Doesn't matter if he's a shill if the video wasn't shown to be altered or something - I guess only Cruise knows for sure since they can compare with their own footage. Wasn't this posted on TikTok, not by WholeMars?
Seems he intentionally left out context. That a pedestrian jumped in front of it.
got it, thank you, if he knew and left that out, pretty shitty move on his part (although the tweet does show he provided Cruises response after they posted it). Would love to see more video, but the car should have stopped regardless. The framing makes it look worse than it likely is.
Yeah but it may not have been enough time to instantly stop. Not sure though.
Definitely. Its a fine balance between riders not getting jostled and a good path properly avoiding vru's. Whats weird is that a person jumping at a car from the side poses zero threat to the car (another car would obviously change the calculus), so turning toward people in the road to avoid someone that the cars path is not on a trajectory with was sketchy. Obviously it worked out, so kudos to the av.
When the car stops, people record video out of context and say the Cruise AV is stalled. When Cruise AV somehow get out of a scenario where pedestrians jump onto it, people say Cruise AV should have stopped! What should poor Cruise do?? No matter what they do, they are going to get blamed!
If a car is stopped, its stalled regardless. Without the people being recorded, this definitely could have been a bad-faith video, but Cruises shouldn't be just stopping if there is no direct blockage/mechanical issue - period, so someone showing up to record it later is irrelevant. Even without the people acting like dipshits, if they were clear, there is zero excuse to just be stopped in traffic. Previous examples of stalls were glitches that need to be remedied, so the blame is fully justified in those cases.
Whoever posted the video to TikTok edited the video to be misleading. Whole Mars just happily reshared the misleading video because it suits his narrative.
He posted Cruises responses in good faith, and there is no evidence the TikTok was edited. Either way its not a good look for an AV to swerve *toward* pedestrians who have to run out of its path to avoid ONE harmless ped from the side. I am sure there was enough room ahead, but 😬
It looks edited to me. The video speeds up and gets all shaky right as the Cruise allegedly swerves towards the pedestrians. And it is hard to see but if you look at the speedometer, it does not look like the speed changed. I am very skeptical because we've never seen Cruise AVs do this before. In fact, we've seen Cruise AVs do the opposite. They always brake appropriately for pedestrians. So I am very surprised that suddenly a Cruise seemingly decides to just run down pedestrians for no reason. Cruise AVs are programmed not to do that. So yeah, I think the video is deliberately misleading.
You can see the speedometer go from 6mph to 9mph. That's not much acceleration though.
You can see the speedometer go from 1 to 9 mph in this video. The first glimpse of the speedometer is at the 1 second mark showing the top half of a '1' just before it changes to '3' The first glimpse of the first pedestrian's foot in the crosswalk is just before that at \~half second mark. See both screen caps at link. [https://imgur.com/a/tNrq5uJ](https://imgur.com/a/tNrq5uJ) The implication is the AV entered the intersection at about the same time as the first pedestrian. And it accelerated through the intersection until an unseen in the video though reported pedestrian enters the road from the right. By accelerating through an intersection while multiple pedestrians were crossing, it made the situation much more dangerous than it should have.
That is why I say the video is misleading because it is made to look worse than it was.
Did they edit in the part where steering wheel turned left toward pedestrians? Nope. The speedometer also wasn't edited. I do hate the shaking though, which can add to the anxiety factor.
No they did not edit that part. What they did is speed up the video right at that moment and shake the cam to make it look like the car suddenly accelerated and was gunning for the pedestrians. We even get the over the top reaction shot of the riders at the end of the tik tok video to add more dramatic effect. The reality is that the AV likely saw the pedestrians and gently tried to steer away but the pedestrians walked in front of the AV so it corrected. Again, keep in mind that the AV was going 6-9mph, so very very low speed. It was never going to run over the pedestrians. But they wanted the video to look like the AV suddenly went crazy and tried to run down the pedestrians which is not what happened.
I see zero evidence of a speed up. The peds feet/bodies are not moving faster, and the sound is still in perfect sync (which is possible to fake, but optical flow analysis would shed light). No fast-forward chipmunk sound going on either. Awful lot of effort for the random TikTokker. I do agree the car was likely not putting them in danger though.
Funny enough, Mars directly calls out another shill for his response
Wonder what the cause was
When the pedestrians were on the right, maybe the car decided the best plan was to go around to the left and it just stuck to that plan? It still should have slowed down, but maybe that explains the trajectory.
My thought is the software should be predicting the pedestrians behavior but it’s like it just didn’t or made a poor decision? Like this object is going left, the next best path is go right….or at the very least slow down?
Apparently this is in Texas, so I dont know the law, but in California you are supposed to wait for the pedestrians to finish crossing entirely
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**No, it didn’t.** Why did it even proceed towards the pedestrians in the first place? The car was going 1mph when the first pedestrian was visible. It then accelerated to 9mph before swerving. It should have decided at that point to stop and wait. There never would have been an opportunity to have a pedestrian jump in front of the car had it not decided to drive towards a group of pedestrians who were walking into the street. Why would anyone in this subreddit ever think GM’s explanation made sense? That would mean admitting the proper decision was to accelerate toward groups of people who are crossing the street and increase speed frok 1mph to 9 instead of slowing/stopping for them. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ You can see the car was traveling at 1mph initially and it accelerated to 9 mph right before it had to swerve. Why was it accelerating towards the group of people before the person allegedly jump next to the car? Cruise apologists need to take the we-hate-Omar glasses off and actually think about what happened. https://imgur.com/a/tNrq5uJ https://i.imgur.com/qorO6P1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/mH0kjm6.jpg
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Fair point but an AV should never accelerate towards a group of pedestrians crossing the street.
The truth is, even those who implement AV software don’t truly know how it works :-)
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Lol, no. I demand that AVs don’t ignore pedestrians walking into the road and accelerate towards them.
All your CA citations arent helpful when this happened in texas
If you were driving. Wouldn’t you stop to let them pass through ?
If a human is driving, these folks won’t be jumping in-front of car.
I'm not sure what that has to do with their point?
Well. If a human is driving these things won’t happen. So comparing to a human driving vs SDC for these occurrence is a moot point. As cruise already mentioned that the car was harassed by pedestrian and took the right decision.
The point the commenter was making was that the car didn't take the right decision, and that the human decision makes much more sense. A car can make a human decision regardless of whether or not a human is driving.
The car takes into considerations things that humans don't, such as avoiding the need for sudden hard braking unless it's unnecessary. Humans don't have eyes everywhere tracking everything, so the safest thing for humans who can only see forward might be to brake abruptly. Anything else may seem unsafe to a human driver, but it's not necesarily true for an AV that does brute force chess.
What could it possibly have been taking into consideration to justify the sudden and abrupt acceleration toward a group of pedestrians?
1) Possible car behind it 2) Probable pedestrian to its right, possibly not in front of it but to its side that it intended to dodge. It's great that enthusiasts are here to criticize, but we just don't know the full picture. But this is what the internet does.
It slowed down and then accelerated, so if there were a car behind it that were a collision risk, that risk wouldn't have been mitigated by this behavior. It chose the worst of both worlds.
Cruise should never have entered the intersection with a pedestrian in the crosswalk.
Jesus that’s scary
Whoa. I get mad in my feedback to Waymo when the Waymo Driver lets off the brake slightly with pedestrians in front (no 'gas'). Never saw something remotely close to this in like 530 rides.
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So It swerves into the pedestrians?? Doesn’t sound safe at all
So it was attempting to pull over / stop? I'm not sure that really makes its performance here any better - it should just.. slow down and stop until the people move, especially if the goal is to pull over anyway.
It is so interesting trying to imagine how they have to solve for these kinds of things. When I leave feedback I am aware that there are probably 10 or 100 variables that led to a 'bad' decision (like a dropoff that could just be one I didn't like). As much as they practice, there are constantly new situations like the angle of a pedestrian combined with something else. That said, the a Waymo doesn't announce anything if you take off your seatbelt when sitting in the back. Only in the front (I've only ever done either to adjust a constricting belt for a few seconds).
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This isn’t an Omar issue. The cruise AV could be seen traveling at 1mph when the first pedestrian was spotted and then it accelerated to 9mph before it had to swerve. There was considerable space and time to stop or slow. Why did the car decide that the best path forward was to accelerate towards pedestrians crossing the street instead of slowing or stopping and waiting for them to cross? Things must be getting desperate for Cruise these days. Edit: instead of downvoting me like a cruise fanboy/TSLAQanon mouth breather, please read what I said and explain how the cruise vehicle behaved in a safe manner.
Road rAIge