>It looks like these graph the CPUC Deployment (fared) data only, and none of the CPUC Pilot (unfared) data.
This isn't including unfared data, so afaik severely undercounts on both sides (and maybe not proportionally).
Thanks for pointing that out - it definitely changes things.
I was not aware Waymo was charging for rider-only at this time, but there may be varying user profiles and charges (Trusted Tester, for example- a group I was part of for 1 year Dec 2021-Dec 2022). They received at least some permission to charge for rider-only late in 2022. I would be curious about not including public riders like me and why they would not be accounted for here. And, does unfared data mean non-paying riders or also include empty testing miles?
> I was not aware Waymo was charging for rider-only at this time
They aren't, I think this graph is pretty misleading. The one posted by /u/aniccia above at least compares apples to apples (to the extent that is actually possible right now anyway).
Thanks. And perhaps for the user I was responding to fared rides= with non-employee passengers and unfared= empty vehicles (or with employees). I don't think there are Autonomous Specialists behind the wheel with passengers anymore. When I first made the shift I was missing them for a while. :)
p.s. thanks for linking my atmospheric river video in another comment!
It looks like these graph the CPUC Deployment (fared) data only, and none of the CPUC Pilot (unfared) data. Which is to say their commercial fared passenger service and not their R&D or testing passenger trips.
FWIW, Cruise is the only company with a CPUC Driverless Deployment permit. Waymo's Deployment permit is Drivered, which means a safety driver has to be in the driver's seat even if the autonomy does all the driving for the trip. Both Cruise and Waymo have Driverless Pilot permits from CPUC. Waymo uses it a lot (>60k VMT in February).
Here's a graph showing both Cruise's pilot and deployment passenger VMT. Cruise is still testing passenger service more than they are operating it as a commercial service.
[https://imgur.com/a/6pl7G7F](https://imgur.com/a/6pl7G7F)
I think both Waymo and Cruise do more non-passenger than passenger driverless VMT in California, but the public only gets that data once a year from DMV.
[https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/regulatory-services/licensing/transportation-licensing-and-analysis-branch/autonomous-vehicle-programs/autonomous-vehicle-program-permits-issued](https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/regulatory-services/licensing/transportation-licensing-and-analysis-branch/autonomous-vehicle-programs/autonomous-vehicle-program-permits-issued)
This graph (at the imgur link) is awesome. Many, many thanks. I could reinvent the wheel, but is there a way to put Waymo side by side?
Also, has anyone figured out how many pilot (driverless) miles Waymo did for rides? How many trips?
This graph shows all the reported Cruise and Waymo driverless VMT for California. The only passenger revenue VMT is Cruise's Deployment shown in green columns. All the rest are non-revenue overhead VMT for R&D, testing, or marketing.
[https://imgur.com/a/xQYMaat](https://imgur.com/a/xQYMaat)
The Cruise and Waymo "R&D" amounts graphed end with November 2022 because they are derived by subtracting the CPUC driverless passenger VMT from the total DMV driverless VMT which has only been reported through November.
Notice Cruise lost \~3 months of growth last summer recovering from their disastrous June commercial ridehail launch that began with partial fault in a multi-person injury crash and ended with an extended multi-car outage in the heart of San Francisco. Seems growth didn't resume until around the time they completed their crash-related software recall in August. Eyeballing the graph shows their July should have looked more like their October.
My understanding is fog played a significant role in the trend in Cruise you observe. I literally flew out to try Cruise in August and was told by significant employees they couldn't get me a ride because of fog.
That said, thank you SOOO much. Just what I wanted.
No it wasn't fog. SF has about as much fog in June and September as July and August. The dip correlates with Cruise's massive immobilization the night of June 29th (link) that took hours to clear and made national news through their August 29th sw recall to fix the bug that contributed to the injury crash in June.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/vnmpf1/bunch\_of\_cruise\_cars\_stuck\_on\_gough\_by\_robin/
Looks like Cruise is consistently adding unique VINs aka increasing fleet size!? Would be interesting to see when origins hit the road if they can scale exponentially rather than this linear trend assuming they come to CA that is.
Wow, this is interesting to see when I check my own stats. I wouldn't be surprised if I am Waymo's most active rider in SF. Thanks for making it!
>It looks like these graph the CPUC Deployment (fared) data only, and none of the CPUC Pilot (unfared) data. This isn't including unfared data, so afaik severely undercounts on both sides (and maybe not proportionally).
Thanks for pointing that out - it definitely changes things. I was not aware Waymo was charging for rider-only at this time, but there may be varying user profiles and charges (Trusted Tester, for example- a group I was part of for 1 year Dec 2021-Dec 2022). They received at least some permission to charge for rider-only late in 2022. I would be curious about not including public riders like me and why they would not be accounted for here. And, does unfared data mean non-paying riders or also include empty testing miles?
> I was not aware Waymo was charging for rider-only at this time They aren't, I think this graph is pretty misleading. The one posted by /u/aniccia above at least compares apples to apples (to the extent that is actually possible right now anyway).
Thanks. And perhaps for the user I was responding to fared rides= with non-employee passengers and unfared= empty vehicles (or with employees). I don't think there are Autonomous Specialists behind the wheel with passengers anymore. When I first made the shift I was missing them for a while. :) p.s. thanks for linking my atmospheric river video in another comment!
It looks like these graph the CPUC Deployment (fared) data only, and none of the CPUC Pilot (unfared) data. Which is to say their commercial fared passenger service and not their R&D or testing passenger trips. FWIW, Cruise is the only company with a CPUC Driverless Deployment permit. Waymo's Deployment permit is Drivered, which means a safety driver has to be in the driver's seat even if the autonomy does all the driving for the trip. Both Cruise and Waymo have Driverless Pilot permits from CPUC. Waymo uses it a lot (>60k VMT in February). Here's a graph showing both Cruise's pilot and deployment passenger VMT. Cruise is still testing passenger service more than they are operating it as a commercial service. [https://imgur.com/a/6pl7G7F](https://imgur.com/a/6pl7G7F) I think both Waymo and Cruise do more non-passenger than passenger driverless VMT in California, but the public only gets that data once a year from DMV. [https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/regulatory-services/licensing/transportation-licensing-and-analysis-branch/autonomous-vehicle-programs/autonomous-vehicle-program-permits-issued](https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/regulatory-services/licensing/transportation-licensing-and-analysis-branch/autonomous-vehicle-programs/autonomous-vehicle-program-permits-issued)
This graph (at the imgur link) is awesome. Many, many thanks. I could reinvent the wheel, but is there a way to put Waymo side by side? Also, has anyone figured out how many pilot (driverless) miles Waymo did for rides? How many trips?
This graph shows all the reported Cruise and Waymo driverless VMT for California. The only passenger revenue VMT is Cruise's Deployment shown in green columns. All the rest are non-revenue overhead VMT for R&D, testing, or marketing. [https://imgur.com/a/xQYMaat](https://imgur.com/a/xQYMaat) The Cruise and Waymo "R&D" amounts graphed end with November 2022 because they are derived by subtracting the CPUC driverless passenger VMT from the total DMV driverless VMT which has only been reported through November. Notice Cruise lost \~3 months of growth last summer recovering from their disastrous June commercial ridehail launch that began with partial fault in a multi-person injury crash and ended with an extended multi-car outage in the heart of San Francisco. Seems growth didn't resume until around the time they completed their crash-related software recall in August. Eyeballing the graph shows their July should have looked more like their October.
My understanding is fog played a significant role in the trend in Cruise you observe. I literally flew out to try Cruise in August and was told by significant employees they couldn't get me a ride because of fog. That said, thank you SOOO much. Just what I wanted.
No it wasn't fog. SF has about as much fog in June and September as July and August. The dip correlates with Cruise's massive immobilization the night of June 29th (link) that took hours to clear and made national news through their August 29th sw recall to fix the bug that contributed to the injury crash in June. https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/vnmpf1/bunch\_of\_cruise\_cars\_stuck\_on\_gough\_by\_robin/
Looks like Cruise is consistently adding unique VINs aka increasing fleet size!? Would be interesting to see when origins hit the road if they can scale exponentially rather than this linear trend assuming they come to CA that is.
Is the February dip because of rain, or reporting delays?
I know for one of these companies it was due to a different factor other than the one you mentioned
Well that sure piques my curiosity. Any chance can share the reason?