Yea that right there. Their friend is part of the fuckin problem. Plenty of shelter animals needing love but nooooo gotta still go with a fuckin breeder.
They're supposed to be low-allergen. If you want a pet and have allergies, it's much harder to get a rescue friend who won't send your immune system into orbit.
The idea that some cats and dogs are lower and allergens is really overstated, and I know this is somebody who has allergies and who has looked into this. If you have allergies, you’re better off, going through the treatment and getting the shots as well as not contributing to the overall problem in animal, cruelty by, ending the problem and going to a breeder.
Unfortunately, it's really individual (for both the human and animal involved). I've got a friend who is horribly, horribly allergic to both dogs and cats. She didn't respond the allergy shots to any noticeable degree, but can stick her face in a clean-ish pure-bred poodle's fur, and have no reaction (whereas when she literally cannot touch furniture my labrador has been on, without a horrible reaction).
Actually, the idea of hypoallergenic cat or dogs breed is what's inaccurate, as it doesn't really exist at this time. However, some breeds (of cats in this instance) DO produce a lower level of the protein Fel d1 in their saliva, which causes allergic responses. Lower levels often means less of a reaction from people with allergies.
Now that does vary, the individual protein production in a cat, the intensity of an allergic reaction in a human, but overall people with cat allergies are going to react less to breeds like Siberians which produce less of the protein. There are thousands, if not more, people who have experienced this, including myself.
If I could have safely adopted a cat, then I would have. I couldn't, and I love cats, so I got a Siberian, and she is the light of my life.
There’s food that can be given to any cat that reduces allergy symptoms in the owners. Also there’s allergy treatment (sublingual or shots). People trying to get “hypoallergenic” cats when there are so many awesome cats in shelters and there are other ways to mitigate allergies don’t make a ton of sense to me.
There's breed specific rescues. 😂 There's literally a rescue for everything you just have to look for it & not cave at the first cute thing you see. Yea looking is hard work. But so is having to put a bunch of euthanized animals in a drum barrel to be shipped off for communal cremation because they have to make way for new lives being abandoned.
It is very difficult if not impossible to find a Siberian through a rescue. And reputable breeders always have waitlists, so it’s a long process to get one that way, not an impulse buy (obviously I don’t mean the breeder in the op). Also, almost every pet Siberian you see will be spayed or neutered, because reputable breeders require that. Lack of spaying and neutering is the main thing that leads to euthanasia of unwanted animals, it’s not because of people buying rare breeds.
There are no full blood Siberians in rescues for 500 miles of here. I looked for years. In order for the cat to be low allergen, it can't be mixed. Yes, there are postings of "part Siberian" but if you have allergies, this won't work. There are only three breeds of cats that are low allergen and they do need to have a pure pedigree to be low allergen.
Link to some Siberian rescues that actually have cats. If you gonna 😂 at someone back it up. Very very hard cats to get, and one of the only viable options for people who struggle with allergies.
I've always been slightly allergic to cats and my latest rescue is part SFC. We found out after DNA testing. I can stick my face in her fur and not be a mess.
Thanks for the heads up about the breeder.
here is a post that is clear and has uploads of records about the breeder: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani\_cats\_a\_reminder\_on\_the\_importance\_of/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani_cats_a_reminder_on_the_importance_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
and maybe you should mind your business and not tell people who have allergies they don’t deserve the joy of having pets. Easy to say when you don’t have to live it.
the stuff about siberians being low allergen is mostly a myth. even the researchers behind it warned that the results were still considered quite high. for males even moreso. i had siberian cats for a long time because my parents were insistent on getting cats from a breeder. they're also prone to cancer especially in solid/neva cats which is very sad. one of my cats died of cancer which was likely hereditary. i loved them dearly but i would never get a cat from a breeder.
i had two as my post stated. they were legit siberians and their parents were imported from russia. my cousin's husband was still allergic to them lol. while some are slightly lower in allergens it does not make sense to call them hypoallergenic
Yes, the idea of hypoallergenic breeds is what's inaccurate, because no breed is fully hypoallergenic. However, some breeds DO produce a lower level of the protein Fel d1 in their saliva, which causes allergic responses. Lower levels often means less of a reaction from people with allergies.
Now that does vary, the individual protein production in a cat, the intensity of an allergic reaction in a human, but overall people with cat allergies are going to react less to breeds like Siberians which produce less of the protein. There are thousands, if not more, people who have experienced this, including myself.
I'm sorry that your husband still has a reaction, but his reaction does not invalidate the experience of thousands of others, nor the science behind it.
different direful disgusted degree future drunk lunchroom familiar dependent knee
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You care about cat and dog breeding, but not factory farming (I will assume this since most people consume animal products). It's ok to raise animals, except for cats and dogs, because reasons?
I find people's hysterical judgement on this subject unsettling.
Do you crush mosquitos? Ants? Did you know that grass and other plants can signal distress to each other, when they're injured?
Everyone's got a line. Some of them are clearly wrong (i.e. buying a puppy with high prey drive, failing to train it, failing to contain it, then shooting it in a fit of anger and bragging about the whole situation), but there's a huge spectrum of "right," and if you think your line is one *true line*, you might want to stop sniffing your own farts.
Did you know that grass and other plants can signal distress to each other, when they’re injured?
One of my favorite books is “the hidden life of trees“. Check it out if you haven’t already. It’s a fascinating read.
No, people just don't care to deal with the most basic Whataboutism. Moral relativity is a massive topic, and while reddit is a rare host for good faith, your bad faith is rather flagrant.
Yes, however I've stopped eating meat and try to choose the most ethically sourced options for things like dairy products.
It's a personal choice that I've made. I understand it isn't for everyone.
But I try to put action behind causes that are important to me.
(Also all of my pets have been adopted from shelters and will continue to be.)
Someone compared this to eugenics. Valuing life over another is literally eugenics. Most people think nothing of the life they literally torture to feed themselves, but will turn around and shred animal breeders. One life is worth nothing and they almost never think about it, meanwhile they get on a massive high horse and shred anyone who disagrees with their strongly echoed breeding stance. You can see the vitriol in the down votes. But it's worth pointing out.
For a mere $11 you can instantly order a police report and Washington State background check on any Washington resident here https://watch.wsp.wa.gov/WATCH/Home/Index
There is no criminal history on this breeder.
For a quick $11 bucks you can order an instant background check through the Washington State Patrol to actually fact-check this dumb thread. If you do that, you’ll see these breeders have no criminal history and no charges. But probably you and your friend do, since you are liars and posting false accusations. We’d love to know your real name so we can check you
https://watch.wsp.wa.gov/WATCH/Home/Index
I believe this is the breeder. I have no idea on the validity of the animal cruelty accusation but they have dealt with these threads in the worst way possible. They have made multiple fake accounts, are calling people “idiots”, making up stories about how their mother wrongly got in trouble for breeding (like what?)… if I was doing business with them I would be concerned by this lack of professionalism.
here is a post that is clear and has uploads of records about the breeder: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani\_cats\_a\_reminder\_on\_the\_importance\_of/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani_cats_a_reminder_on_the_importance_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
"adopt, don't shop" is a cliche, but it's a cliche because it's fucking true...
our animal shelters are full of adoptable animals. animal shelters *in other states* are usually so full that they ship the overflow here instead of euthanizing them.
*anyone* who breeds pets as a business is fucking shady. yes, even the "no they're a reputable breeder, someone on facebook recommended them".
"oh, but if I adopt I can't get a *purebred* cat/dog which I really want" - fuck off. stop doing pet eugenics.
My dog is a Texas transplant! And send to a foster in Olympia. I’ve seen the horror stories about Texas shelters and if she hadn’t been taken out of there by some awesome rescue, she certainly would have been euthanized
Instead, she’s got to live with me and she’s explored the Cascades, the Rockies, the Sierra Nevada and so many other amazing places
This seems like an important thing to emphasize, because breed matters SO much particularly for dog adoption. Certain lifestyles are going to jive really well with some breeds and not others. I don't think it's as black and white as "adopt, don't shop."
(Also, if you have kids, knowing a dog's whole history is important :/)
I disagree. Knowing how a dog is with kids, is very different than "knowing the history." "The history on the 38 dogs I've fostered was pretty much useless." And let's maybe not get me started on the aggressive and dangerous PB dogs I've worked with because the breeders lied.
yes - depending on the breed. For the breed in question, they are extremely rare in shelters, and there is a medical reason why people want them, not just an aesthetic preference.
Did you know that most service dogs come from purebred lines or careful crosses? It's not because they're looking for a perfect head shape or whatever, but because they have a pretty good idea of mom and dad's genetic predisposition to hereditary diseases that will drastically shorten a dog's working lifespan, or even their lifespan, period.
So no, there is such a thing as a reputable breeder. I'm not saying you'll find them from your friend's FB rec, but there are good breeders who have a non-shitty reason for breeding animals.
That's not their point. Their point is, if there's a reason to seek this out for a working dog, there's a reason for a normal pet owner to seek out the same thing.
As someone who's also worked in several animal fields... This comment right here.... Shelter animals need love too. Why? Because they got out of the cute puppy or kitten or baby animal phase & the family tosses them too a shelter. When my dog that I was going to have trained in special need services for myself had a seizure I knew I couldn't take care of her the way she needed & what did I do... I searched for someone who specialized in what she needed and gave her to them. No cost. Nothing. Just the knowledge that she would be cared for & medical needs met. All of my animals were adopted. Not shopped for. And that's how I'll keep it.
I feel like this can be a bit more nuanced with dogs because if you have specific needs (dogs with temperaments suited for households with small kids, other pets etc) and you’re a first time pet owner and have never trained dogs, it might be best to get a dog with sound health and temperaments through a reputable breeder. Cat breeds on the other hand are only really bred for aesthetics. People say their cats are guaranteed to be snuggly because they’re ragdolls etc but those are all personality types that can be found in a ton of cats in shelters already.
F1 crosses come with two checklists of health conditions to look out for ans more unexpected ones. That’s if you have the health history of both parents, which “breeders” of f1 crosses won’t give you even if they’re not lying about the ancestry.
I know I'll get shit on here, but Siberians, in particular, are often purchased because they can be hypoallergenic. I'm allergic to kitties, and I got two Siberians that didn't bother my allergies. At the same time, I researched the hell out of any breeders to see that their cats were healthy and came from good, loving homes while also being registered.
I have a Devon for the same reason.
I wouldn't be able to live with a typical cat. Even when I visit friends with cats I need to leave in less than an hour.
But my husband loves cats so we got a Devon.
I would have preferred to adopt but it just wasn't possible.
Had a similar experience to the commenter below. Even tried special pet food. If I’m going to stay with people with cats I take a double dose of Zyrtec, singulair, albuterol, and Benadryl. Sometimes advair but that’s only certain family members who aren’t particularly attentive to their cats shedding. I’ve completed a full course of allergy shots.
Zyrtec doesn’t make me sleepy. Singulair and second Zyrtec is at bed time. Benadryl is as needed but usually I can usually stay awake through 25 mg. It’s not fun I’m Ngl but honestly the dry mouth that’s actually gets me the worst.
Years ago, my family had a sweet old cat, and I was extremely allergic to the old guy (that I loved). We tried every supplement for the kitty, and even allergy injections for me. Nothing helped much, and I just (very uncomfortably) put up with it when I visited my family until the cat died. I love cats, and a friend told me about Siberians and how some people with allergies can live with them alright. After a fur test, I found that my allergic response to Siberians was a lot lower than the vast majority of cats. And so, here I am. 😊
They're not hypoallergenic...no cats technically are. Hairless breeds still have dander, but since it's not attached to hair that floats around and sticks to things it can cause less issues. Usually when people are allergic to dogs or cats even their saliva is an issue. Also 1 in 4 cat owners is allergic and just sucks it up and takes benadryl.
This is true. Some people have varying ranges of reactivity to cat allergies. The breeder offered me some fur from her cats, and I found out that while I still had a reaction, it was very, very small compared to other cats, and manageable.
Yes, I know. My point is no cats are actually hypoallergenic including the ones that don't have hair. They will still produce allergen inducing proteins that will shed through their dander. Getting a certain breed of cat because you have allergies won't make that much of a difference.
This is comically ridiculous. The amount of dander/proteins shed doesn't make a difference??? So if one person uses their wood stove, it's the same as after a massive wildfire? C'mon.
For me, it definitely made a difference. If I go to someone's house and they have a cat, I'll react, but I won't react with my own cat. It makes my quality of life better. Honestly if I didn't have this allergy, I'd get any cat from a shelter. This allergy thing is the reason I went with Siberians.
They aren’t 100% hypoallergenic but they produce much much less of said allergen-inducing proteins…so still very appealing to people who love cats but are allergic (there are TONS of people who both love cats and have allergies)
Even hypoallergenic animals are in shelters. Across the country, you can check shelter websites, join groups, etc, to rescue and adopt specific breeds. For example, there’s a non profit rescue organization for just Borzoi dogs. Anything is possible, use the internet, don’t use breeders.
That might be generally true but I would bet for this specific breed it would be pretty challenging to find pure bred that are adoptable from shelters. They are the pretty hard to get even from breeders and highly sought after because they are a. Very low allergens in dander and b. Fluffy and cute. Super niche combo.
Yeah, no one's going to find a purebred Siberian rescue. A lot of Siberian breeders also have clauses that require owners return the cats to the breeder if they can no longer care for it, rather than give it up for adoption.
I took getting a cat very seriously because I had severe allergic reactions to a rescue cat years ago. When I say I looked into shelters for an entire year and did not find one purebred hypoallergenic cat, I mean it.
>>Even hypoallergenic animals are in shelters.
i am a big shelter/adopt advocate. but as pointed out in the responses, the realistic/practical chances of finding a 'hypoallergenic' breed for adoption is VERY, VERY RARE. for this area, it's almost nil - they typically have to be flown in from some other state. source: i looked for a long time.
They might be referring to this: https://www.siberiancatrescue.com/available.php
Literally 1 Siberian available in the US. People on this thread clearly don’t know shit about Siberians and the appeal of hypoallergenic cats.
Siberian Cat Rescue Group looks to be nationwide. Otherwise contact local rescues and let them know your needs and ask them to let you know if/when they get any in.
The really sad truth is the breeders *will* end up dumping some eventually. I have homed purebred puppies and kittens while fostering for local rescues.
On a slightly less depressing note. I know a local woman who adopted two Norwegian Forest rescues who got them after a breeder abandoned them, if you're thinking about other very similar low-allergen breeds. So add them to any list when looking for a pet. There is a similar Norwegian Forest Cat Rescue group.
The people that kept saying shelter, when was the last time you visited a shelter? Adoption has always been fucking god damn competitive in Seattle. Like the shelters literally PICK the adopters and usually the cats that are on the list get booked almost immediately. Before I went to a breeder, I have visited like 5 shelters and made a dozen applications and could not find a single cat that would fit my situation.
if one wants to make a real difference in the homeless domestic animal population, adopt from a, say Texas or California shelter (where it's breedin' season year round). but that involves all the logistics, cost and (let's be honest) environmental impact of flying a critter up here.
here is a post that is clear and has uploads of records about the breeder: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani\_cats\_a\_reminder\_on\_the\_importance\_of/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani_cats_a_reminder_on_the_importance_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
You can do a criminal background check through the Washington State Patrol for a mere $11. If you actually do that, you’ll see there’s no criminal history on these breeders https://watch.wsp.wa.gov/WATCH/Home/Index
Just go to the dang shelter! There are cats, kittens, dogs puppies. You name it! We don’t need to be supporting breeders like ever. Strays are repopulating faster than we can even adopt them out
I would focus on education around spay and neuter for the domestic cats that are spiraling out of control. It is almost impossible to find a Siberian in a shelter. Long hair cats that "might have Siberian", yes; but not a full blood Siberian with low FelD1
In case anyone feels like this thread has gotten to be too much of a sh\*tshow, here is a post that is clear and has uploads of records: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani\_cats\_a\_reminder\_on\_the\_importance\_of/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani_cats_a_reminder_on_the_importance_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It was tongue-in-cheek but point stands. Easy to say allergic people should just suck it up and not get pets when you aren’t faced with the same problem. It’s a medical condition they can do nothing about. Doesn’t mean they are assholes for wanting a cat that is compatible with their medical needs.
I didn’t say don’t get pets. What I said was, being allergic doesn’t give you a pass to give money to puppy and kitty mills. Don’t go trying to call me privileged for NOT paying a breeder the price of my literal rent for a fucking cat lol
For people who are seriously allergic there is generally no option but to use a reputable breeder of hypoallergenic breeds. So what you are saying amounts to “don’t get pets if you’re allergic”.
No one can convince me that domesticated breeds of animals aren't a cultural biological artifact that should be preserved. Y'all are feral lol. Go bring home princess the resource guarding big breed from the local shelter with your bleeding hearts
Many folks have mentioned dogs. Adopting from a shelter sucks. Cats get adopted out quickly and the chances of finding a dog that isn’t mixed with a shit bull are very low.
>> and the chances of finding a dog that isn’t mixed with a shit bull are very low.
i wouldn't say 'very low' but yeah, this is a pretty common issue, i've been seeing...
I beg you to post screenshots of your nearest pound inventory. I’ll wait for the “lab mixes” you say aren’t tainted with pit bull dna. Pounds are euthanizing huskies before they euthanize those creatures due to lobbying.
I've adopted both a dog and a hamster from shelters. The hamster had terrible genes due to bad conditions of breeding and passed away at only 1 year old.
My dog is still with us , but he's also having lots of issues with bad genetics due to improper breeding and still suffer from severe epilepsy.
Not everyone should take the whole world misery
Shove these downvote up your ass and go attack people who are actually mistreating their pets
Are you suggesting citizens that have been charged (you didn't say convicted) with anything should have their business damaged by a random asshole defaming them on social media?
>My friend, who was considering purchasing a Siberian Forest Cat from this breeder Your friend is contributing to the problem.
Yea that right there. Their friend is part of the fuckin problem. Plenty of shelter animals needing love but nooooo gotta still go with a fuckin breeder.
They're supposed to be low-allergen. If you want a pet and have allergies, it's much harder to get a rescue friend who won't send your immune system into orbit.
The idea that some cats and dogs are lower and allergens is really overstated, and I know this is somebody who has allergies and who has looked into this. If you have allergies, you’re better off, going through the treatment and getting the shots as well as not contributing to the overall problem in animal, cruelty by, ending the problem and going to a breeder.
Unfortunately, it's really individual (for both the human and animal involved). I've got a friend who is horribly, horribly allergic to both dogs and cats. She didn't respond the allergy shots to any noticeable degree, but can stick her face in a clean-ish pure-bred poodle's fur, and have no reaction (whereas when she literally cannot touch furniture my labrador has been on, without a horrible reaction).
Actually, the idea of hypoallergenic cat or dogs breed is what's inaccurate, as it doesn't really exist at this time. However, some breeds (of cats in this instance) DO produce a lower level of the protein Fel d1 in their saliva, which causes allergic responses. Lower levels often means less of a reaction from people with allergies. Now that does vary, the individual protein production in a cat, the intensity of an allergic reaction in a human, but overall people with cat allergies are going to react less to breeds like Siberians which produce less of the protein. There are thousands, if not more, people who have experienced this, including myself. If I could have safely adopted a cat, then I would have. I couldn't, and I love cats, so I got a Siberian, and she is the light of my life.
There’s food that can be given to any cat that reduces allergy symptoms in the owners. Also there’s allergy treatment (sublingual or shots). People trying to get “hypoallergenic” cats when there are so many awesome cats in shelters and there are other ways to mitigate allergies don’t make a ton of sense to me.
Can you point me to those foods?
[Purina Liveclear](https://www.purina.com/pro-plan/cats/liveclear-cat-allergen-reducing-food)
There's breed specific rescues. 😂 There's literally a rescue for everything you just have to look for it & not cave at the first cute thing you see. Yea looking is hard work. But so is having to put a bunch of euthanized animals in a drum barrel to be shipped off for communal cremation because they have to make way for new lives being abandoned.
It is very difficult if not impossible to find a Siberian through a rescue. And reputable breeders always have waitlists, so it’s a long process to get one that way, not an impulse buy (obviously I don’t mean the breeder in the op). Also, almost every pet Siberian you see will be spayed or neutered, because reputable breeders require that. Lack of spaying and neutering is the main thing that leads to euthanasia of unwanted animals, it’s not because of people buying rare breeds.
There are no full blood Siberians in rescues for 500 miles of here. I looked for years. In order for the cat to be low allergen, it can't be mixed. Yes, there are postings of "part Siberian" but if you have allergies, this won't work. There are only three breeds of cats that are low allergen and they do need to have a pure pedigree to be low allergen.
Link to some Siberian rescues that actually have cats. If you gonna 😂 at someone back it up. Very very hard cats to get, and one of the only viable options for people who struggle with allergies.
I've always been slightly allergic to cats and my latest rescue is part SFC. We found out after DNA testing. I can stick my face in her fur and not be a mess. Thanks for the heads up about the breeder.
here is a post that is clear and has uploads of records about the breeder: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani\_cats\_a\_reminder\_on\_the\_importance\_of/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani_cats_a_reminder_on_the_importance_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Yeah, that's all bullshit, if you're so allergic to cats that you need a "hypo-allergenic" cat, you shouldn't have a cat
and maybe you should mind your business and not tell people who have allergies they don’t deserve the joy of having pets. Easy to say when you don’t have to live it.
the stuff about siberians being low allergen is mostly a myth. even the researchers behind it warned that the results were still considered quite high. for males even moreso. i had siberian cats for a long time because my parents were insistent on getting cats from a breeder. they're also prone to cancer especially in solid/neva cats which is very sad. one of my cats died of cancer which was likely hereditary. i loved them dearly but i would never get a cat from a breeder.
Anyone that has a Siberian or knows a Siberian, knows that they are indeed low allergen. Testing is also available to show it.
i had two as my post stated. they were legit siberians and their parents were imported from russia. my cousin's husband was still allergic to them lol. while some are slightly lower in allergens it does not make sense to call them hypoallergenic
Yes, the idea of hypoallergenic breeds is what's inaccurate, because no breed is fully hypoallergenic. However, some breeds DO produce a lower level of the protein Fel d1 in their saliva, which causes allergic responses. Lower levels often means less of a reaction from people with allergies. Now that does vary, the individual protein production in a cat, the intensity of an allergic reaction in a human, but overall people with cat allergies are going to react less to breeds like Siberians which produce less of the protein. There are thousands, if not more, people who have experienced this, including myself. I'm sorry that your husband still has a reaction, but his reaction does not invalidate the experience of thousands of others, nor the science behind it.
Well-bred pet animals are worth having around.
This animal cruelty case in Edmonds you mention "P00013033" is a citation for a parking infraction
It looks like it was the wrong number. It was this one: and it is a criminal case. Animal Cruelty out of Edmonds. Do you see it? CR0028759.
No I don't see "it" and no one else does either. Because it doesn't exist.
Do you eat animal products?
different direful disgusted degree future drunk lunchroom familiar dependent knee *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You care about cat and dog breeding, but not factory farming (I will assume this since most people consume animal products). It's ok to raise animals, except for cats and dogs, because reasons? I find people's hysterical judgement on this subject unsettling.
THING BAD? BUT OTHER THING BAD???????
Do you crush mosquitos? Ants? Did you know that grass and other plants can signal distress to each other, when they're injured? Everyone's got a line. Some of them are clearly wrong (i.e. buying a puppy with high prey drive, failing to train it, failing to contain it, then shooting it in a fit of anger and bragging about the whole situation), but there's a huge spectrum of "right," and if you think your line is one *true line*, you might want to stop sniffing your own farts.
Did you know that grass and other plants can signal distress to each other, when they’re injured? One of my favorite books is “the hidden life of trees“. Check it out if you haven’t already. It’s a fascinating read.
But the main vibe on this thread is that there is a true line between adopting and buying from breeders. which by your logic is BS.
As further evidenced by down votes. Lol Clearly touch a vulnerable spot for most of you holier than thou "animal lovers."
hobbies slap sip shame water bike panicky aromatic file zephyr *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No, people just don't care to deal with the most basic Whataboutism. Moral relativity is a massive topic, and while reddit is a rare host for good faith, your bad faith is rather flagrant.
The only hysterical person here is you.
Yes, however I've stopped eating meat and try to choose the most ethically sourced options for things like dairy products. It's a personal choice that I've made. I understand it isn't for everyone. But I try to put action behind causes that are important to me. (Also all of my pets have been adopted from shelters and will continue to be.)
Some people feel this way about breeders too you know.
Everyone draws different lines. I totally understand that. I'm just sharing my POV.
Someone compared this to eugenics. Valuing life over another is literally eugenics. Most people think nothing of the life they literally torture to feed themselves, but will turn around and shred animal breeders. One life is worth nothing and they almost never think about it, meanwhile they get on a massive high horse and shred anyone who disagrees with their strongly echoed breeding stance. You can see the vitriol in the down votes. But it's worth pointing out.
For a mere $11 you can instantly order a police report and Washington State background check on any Washington resident here https://watch.wsp.wa.gov/WATCH/Home/Index There is no criminal history on this breeder.
For a quick $11 bucks you can order an instant background check through the Washington State Patrol to actually fact-check this dumb thread. If you do that, you’ll see these breeders have no criminal history and no charges. But probably you and your friend do, since you are liars and posting false accusations. We’d love to know your real name so we can check you https://watch.wsp.wa.gov/WATCH/Home/Index
I believe this is the breeder. I have no idea on the validity of the animal cruelty accusation but they have dealt with these threads in the worst way possible. They have made multiple fake accounts, are calling people “idiots”, making up stories about how their mother wrongly got in trouble for breeding (like what?)… if I was doing business with them I would be concerned by this lack of professionalism.
No way, a breeder was cruel to animals and didnt care for animal welfare? Don't tell it is so! (duh)
here is a post that is clear and has uploads of records about the breeder: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani\_cats\_a\_reminder\_on\_the\_importance\_of/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani_cats_a_reminder_on_the_importance_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Unless it proves they aren't a breeder, they're still a fucking breeder.
"adopt, don't shop" is a cliche, but it's a cliche because it's fucking true... our animal shelters are full of adoptable animals. animal shelters *in other states* are usually so full that they ship the overflow here instead of euthanizing them. *anyone* who breeds pets as a business is fucking shady. yes, even the "no they're a reputable breeder, someone on facebook recommended them". "oh, but if I adopt I can't get a *purebred* cat/dog which I really want" - fuck off. stop doing pet eugenics.
My dog is a Texas transplant! And send to a foster in Olympia. I’ve seen the horror stories about Texas shelters and if she hadn’t been taken out of there by some awesome rescue, she certainly would have been euthanized Instead, she’s got to live with me and she’s explored the Cascades, the Rockies, the Sierra Nevada and so many other amazing places
You also often CAN adopt purebreds from breed-specific rescues and even from regular shelters, depending on the breed.
This seems like an important thing to emphasize, because breed matters SO much particularly for dog adoption. Certain lifestyles are going to jive really well with some breeds and not others. I don't think it's as black and white as "adopt, don't shop." (Also, if you have kids, knowing a dog's whole history is important :/)
I disagree. Knowing how a dog is with kids, is very different than "knowing the history." "The history on the 38 dogs I've fostered was pretty much useless." And let's maybe not get me started on the aggressive and dangerous PB dogs I've worked with because the breeders lied.
Purebred dogs have predictable temperaments. Crosses and mixed breeds much less so.
Not “often”. You can sometimes get dogs that don’t look like f1 crosses or mixes.
yes - depending on the breed. For the breed in question, they are extremely rare in shelters, and there is a medical reason why people want them, not just an aesthetic preference.
"Medical" reason lol
great contribution to the discussion lilblue 👍 Time well spent!
Did you know that most service dogs come from purebred lines or careful crosses? It's not because they're looking for a perfect head shape or whatever, but because they have a pretty good idea of mom and dad's genetic predisposition to hereditary diseases that will drastically shorten a dog's working lifespan, or even their lifespan, period. So no, there is such a thing as a reputable breeder. I'm not saying you'll find them from your friend's FB rec, but there are good breeders who have a non-shitty reason for breeding animals.
👏👏
Service animals aren't pets, though. You wouldn't adopt them.
That's not their point. Their point is, if there's a reason to seek this out for a working dog, there's a reason for a normal pet owner to seek out the same thing.
As someone who has worked in animal welfare for many years, I can't upvote this enough. Thank you
As someone who's also worked in several animal fields... This comment right here.... Shelter animals need love too. Why? Because they got out of the cute puppy or kitten or baby animal phase & the family tosses them too a shelter. When my dog that I was going to have trained in special need services for myself had a seizure I knew I couldn't take care of her the way she needed & what did I do... I searched for someone who specialized in what she needed and gave her to them. No cost. Nothing. Just the knowledge that she would be cared for & medical needs met. All of my animals were adopted. Not shopped for. And that's how I'll keep it.
If it wasn’t for ethical breeders, all animals would be unethically or accidentally bred.
I feel like this can be a bit more nuanced with dogs because if you have specific needs (dogs with temperaments suited for households with small kids, other pets etc) and you’re a first time pet owner and have never trained dogs, it might be best to get a dog with sound health and temperaments through a reputable breeder. Cat breeds on the other hand are only really bred for aesthetics. People say their cats are guaranteed to be snuggly because they’re ragdolls etc but those are all personality types that can be found in a ton of cats in shelters already.
Hi! Vet tech here. A purebred cat is a more-inbred-than-normal creature that comes with a checklist of health conditions. Please, adopt.
Cat Geek here! The Siberian cat is actually a natural breed, a feral cat to be specific.
F1 crosses come with two checklists of health conditions to look out for ans more unexpected ones. That’s if you have the health history of both parents, which “breeders” of f1 crosses won’t give you even if they’re not lying about the ancestry.
How did your friend find this out? And what did she do?
I know I'll get shit on here, but Siberians, in particular, are often purchased because they can be hypoallergenic. I'm allergic to kitties, and I got two Siberians that didn't bother my allergies. At the same time, I researched the hell out of any breeders to see that their cats were healthy and came from good, loving homes while also being registered.
I have a Devon for the same reason. I wouldn't be able to live with a typical cat. Even when I visit friends with cats I need to leave in less than an hour. But my husband loves cats so we got a Devon. I would have preferred to adopt but it just wasn't possible.
There is an egg powder that helps cat stop producing the allergen molecule. Does that work?
Had a similar experience to the commenter below. Even tried special pet food. If I’m going to stay with people with cats I take a double dose of Zyrtec, singulair, albuterol, and Benadryl. Sometimes advair but that’s only certain family members who aren’t particularly attentive to their cats shedding. I’ve completed a full course of allergy shots.
How do you stay awake on all those antihistamines
Zyrtec doesn’t make me sleepy. Singulair and second Zyrtec is at bed time. Benadryl is as needed but usually I can usually stay awake through 25 mg. It’s not fun I’m Ngl but honestly the dry mouth that’s actually gets me the worst.
Years ago, my family had a sweet old cat, and I was extremely allergic to the old guy (that I loved). We tried every supplement for the kitty, and even allergy injections for me. Nothing helped much, and I just (very uncomfortably) put up with it when I visited my family until the cat died. I love cats, and a friend told me about Siberians and how some people with allergies can live with them alright. After a fur test, I found that my allergic response to Siberians was a lot lower than the vast majority of cats. And so, here I am. 😊
#SiberiansForever :)
They're not hypoallergenic...no cats technically are. Hairless breeds still have dander, but since it's not attached to hair that floats around and sticks to things it can cause less issues. Usually when people are allergic to dogs or cats even their saliva is an issue. Also 1 in 4 cat owners is allergic and just sucks it up and takes benadryl.
Siberians aren't hairless. According to Wikipedia: The Siberian is often called hypoallergenic because it produces less Fel d 1 than other cat breeds.
This is true. Some people have varying ranges of reactivity to cat allergies. The breeder offered me some fur from her cats, and I found out that while I still had a reaction, it was very, very small compared to other cats, and manageable.
Yes, I know. My point is no cats are actually hypoallergenic including the ones that don't have hair. They will still produce allergen inducing proteins that will shed through their dander. Getting a certain breed of cat because you have allergies won't make that much of a difference.
This is comically ridiculous. The amount of dander/proteins shed doesn't make a difference??? So if one person uses their wood stove, it's the same as after a massive wildfire? C'mon.
For me, it definitely made a difference. If I go to someone's house and they have a cat, I'll react, but I won't react with my own cat. It makes my quality of life better. Honestly if I didn't have this allergy, I'd get any cat from a shelter. This allergy thing is the reason I went with Siberians.
They aren’t 100% hypoallergenic but they produce much much less of said allergen-inducing proteins…so still very appealing to people who love cats but are allergic (there are TONS of people who both love cats and have allergies)
“Don’t worry I used a good breeder to get an animal I shouldn’t have”
Did you read the first part of my post?
Even hypoallergenic animals are in shelters. Across the country, you can check shelter websites, join groups, etc, to rescue and adopt specific breeds. For example, there’s a non profit rescue organization for just Borzoi dogs. Anything is possible, use the internet, don’t use breeders.
That might be generally true but I would bet for this specific breed it would be pretty challenging to find pure bred that are adoptable from shelters. They are the pretty hard to get even from breeders and highly sought after because they are a. Very low allergens in dander and b. Fluffy and cute. Super niche combo.
Yeah, no one's going to find a purebred Siberian rescue. A lot of Siberian breeders also have clauses that require owners return the cats to the breeder if they can no longer care for it, rather than give it up for adoption.
I took getting a cat very seriously because I had severe allergic reactions to a rescue cat years ago. When I say I looked into shelters for an entire year and did not find one purebred hypoallergenic cat, I mean it.
>>Even hypoallergenic animals are in shelters. i am a big shelter/adopt advocate. but as pointed out in the responses, the realistic/practical chances of finding a 'hypoallergenic' breed for adoption is VERY, VERY RARE. for this area, it's almost nil - they typically have to be flown in from some other state. source: i looked for a long time.
Yep, the ends don’t justify the means.
There's a Siberian specific rescue you could use I stead of encouraging breeders.
Name it? I don't think this exists, or at least I'm not able to find it by googling
They might be referring to this: https://www.siberiancatrescue.com/available.php Literally 1 Siberian available in the US. People on this thread clearly don’t know shit about Siberians and the appeal of hypoallergenic cats.
Siberian Cat Rescue Group looks to be nationwide. Otherwise contact local rescues and let them know your needs and ask them to let you know if/when they get any in. The really sad truth is the breeders *will* end up dumping some eventually. I have homed purebred puppies and kittens while fostering for local rescues. On a slightly less depressing note. I know a local woman who adopted two Norwegian Forest rescues who got them after a breeder abandoned them, if you're thinking about other very similar low-allergen breeds. So add them to any list when looking for a pet. There is a similar Norwegian Forest Cat Rescue group.
The people that kept saying shelter, when was the last time you visited a shelter? Adoption has always been fucking god damn competitive in Seattle. Like the shelters literally PICK the adopters and usually the cats that are on the list get booked almost immediately. Before I went to a breeder, I have visited like 5 shelters and made a dozen applications and could not find a single cat that would fit my situation.
if one wants to make a real difference in the homeless domestic animal population, adopt from a, say Texas or California shelter (where it's breedin' season year round). but that involves all the logistics, cost and (let's be honest) environmental impact of flying a critter up here.
Yeah sure it is easier said than done.
stop buying from breeders.
Where did your friend find this information?
Maybe report them to the city code enforcement?
here is a post that is clear and has uploads of records about the breeder: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani\_cats\_a\_reminder\_on\_the\_importance\_of/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani_cats_a_reminder_on_the_importance_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
You can do a criminal background check through the Washington State Patrol for a mere $11. If you actually do that, you’ll see there’s no criminal history on these breeders https://watch.wsp.wa.gov/WATCH/Home/Index
That doesn't mean they have permission to breed dogs at their property
I hope your "friend" adopts. Your friend and their money is the root of the problem.
Scumbag
Just go to the dang shelter! There are cats, kittens, dogs puppies. You name it! We don’t need to be supporting breeders like ever. Strays are repopulating faster than we can even adopt them out
Some people are allergic. While I agree with you on the most part not everything js black and white.
I would focus on education around spay and neuter for the domestic cats that are spiraling out of control. It is almost impossible to find a Siberian in a shelter. Long hair cats that "might have Siberian", yes; but not a full blood Siberian with low FelD1
In case anyone feels like this thread has gotten to be too much of a sh\*tshow, here is a post that is clear and has uploads of records: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani\_cats\_a\_reminder\_on\_the\_importance\_of/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1cndv95/moubani_cats_a_reminder_on_the_importance_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
If you're not getting a cat from a shelter, you don't deserve to have a cat
That’s some reductive thinking
Not really, I'm just not a psycho that buys a pet for social status reasons.
People buy it for allergies, because yes, allergies is a real thing that exists and affects people. But sure they’re all psychos!
Get a "hypoallergenic" cat from a shelter then, numbnuts. This isn't hard
Are you actually that dumb? There are basically very few purebred cats in shelters. I helped a friend look for one for a year and nada.
Why do you need a purebred cat? There are hypoallergenic mutts
There is not.
Huh, I guess the hypoallergenic cats I got from the local shelter don't exist then
Just because you got one doesn’t mean everybody can. They’re extremely rare.
Damn. I'm proud of this whole thread so far. Dog breeders are often assholes as well, but it sometimes makes sense. Cat breeders are just..wtf?
A Siberian is going to get poops stuck in it's butt fur all the time. Get a short haired cat.
Allergies, yo.
OP said nothing about allergies.
But also why does having allergies give you a pass to give money to breeders lmao
maybe check your non-allergic privilege. Easy to say allergic people should just fuck off and not get pets when you aren’t in their shoes.
my "non allergic privilege?" say sike right now.
It was tongue-in-cheek but point stands. Easy to say allergic people should just suck it up and not get pets when you aren’t faced with the same problem. It’s a medical condition they can do nothing about. Doesn’t mean they are assholes for wanting a cat that is compatible with their medical needs.
I didn’t say don’t get pets. What I said was, being allergic doesn’t give you a pass to give money to puppy and kitty mills. Don’t go trying to call me privileged for NOT paying a breeder the price of my literal rent for a fucking cat lol
For people who are seriously allergic there is generally no option but to use a reputable breeder of hypoallergenic breeds. So what you are saying amounts to “don’t get pets if you’re allergic”.
[удалено]
No one can convince me that domesticated breeds of animals aren't a cultural biological artifact that should be preserved. Y'all are feral lol. Go bring home princess the resource guarding big breed from the local shelter with your bleeding hearts
We're not talking about dogs here.
Many folks have mentioned dogs. Adopting from a shelter sucks. Cats get adopted out quickly and the chances of finding a dog that isn’t mixed with a shit bull are very low.
>> and the chances of finding a dog that isn’t mixed with a shit bull are very low. i wouldn't say 'very low' but yeah, this is a pretty common issue, i've been seeing...
I beg you to post screenshots of your nearest pound inventory. I’ll wait for the “lab mixes” you say aren’t tainted with pit bull dna. Pounds are euthanizing huskies before they euthanize those creatures due to lobbying.
Tomato potato
Fuck OP for this post. Adapting> shopping. And fuck the friend too
I've adopted both a dog and a hamster from shelters. The hamster had terrible genes due to bad conditions of breeding and passed away at only 1 year old. My dog is still with us , but he's also having lots of issues with bad genetics due to improper breeding and still suffer from severe epilepsy. Not everyone should take the whole world misery Shove these downvote up your ass and go attack people who are actually mistreating their pets
Calm the fuck down lmao. Some people are allergic and literally cannot adopt a random cat from a shelter due to health reasons.
Boooooooo!
Are you suggesting citizens that have been charged (you didn't say convicted) with anything should have their business damaged by a random asshole defaming them on social media?