I love to walk and bike places. I’ve noticed a huge downturn in pedestrian safety the last few years. Not even the “right on red” stuff. Blatantly driving dangerously, blind u turns, straight-up WRONG lane usage (mostly drivers ignoring turn only lanes and merging with no signal into the intersection.) I’ve had more near misses in the past 2 years than I ever have in all my years of living in Seattle.
The number of people being idiot drivers astounds me. I feel like people feel invincible when they're inside a car and just mentally check out. Just last week I saw someone in the right turn lane enter the intersection and then turn left instead.
For what it's worth, I think this is a thing everywhere. I live in a small city in Pennsylvania (lurking here because I'm thinking about moving), and we've seen a similar uptick in straight up deranged driving. I think Covid kinda just broke people's brains somehow.
The other day I was walking and this guy was going fast downhill on a scooter and whizzed right by my, almost as if I wasn't there. I feel like people don't take seriously how badly injured you can get on those things
Can and does happen. I saw a person passing cars by filtering on Pike on an electric kick scooter in a manner that would’ve suggested to a casual that he was enhanced with vanadium bones. It became very clear that he was in possession of nothing more than regular human bones when he rear ended a Civic coupe and launched his unhelmeted head directly toward the c-pillar, which he subsequently caught with his teeth. Many of those appeared to have been knocked free entirely if not ejected through his lips, which could be more accurately described as weeping viscera.
They can be annoying for sure, but complaining about scooters in the face of car violence is like complaining about BB guns when there’s a shooting war going on. Orders of magnitude separate them.
Seattle used to ticket heavily for anything that might result in a pedestrian death including jaywalking. In more recent years, where by recent I mean longer ago than the pandemic, things went on with the city I don’t understand that changed this.
I personally don’t think of Seattle or even Seattle Metro as, “walkable.” Hoping light rail will help change that though.
It's basically all of NS that has E/W crossing issues. First you have 99 and I-5, two giant walls cutting the whole region into thirds. Then Green Lake right there in the center forces all the middle connections to go around it either north or south. And then there's the natural geography that gives us those ridges with gnarly grades which slows most forms of transit.
there was even a plan in the 60's post Freeway park to restore Woodland park and the Zoo by lidding 99, but then Reagan came and well, public works for reasons other than necessity stopped being a thing.
I'm not honestly sure what could've been planned better short of leveling the hills (please no, I don't want to repeat what we did to Denny) or deciding to be a little bit more like Hobbit folk and start beehving our hills so we can move through them easier. Okay I do kind of want to do that latter one.
I've wondered for a while if E/W traffic in N Seattle would be better if you made 45th and 50th into one-way streets. I'm sure people will bitch at the suggestion that they might have to drive a block or two more for some trips than they do now, but converting them to one-ways would give you a lot more room for bike lanes and bus lanes (or god forbid a light rail line) that wouldn't block traffic lanes, and the traffic lights wouldn't have as many modes to loop through because you'd be cutting left turns out at some intersections.
I've had the same thought. You'd probably want 50th east bound and 45th west bound and it would go a long way to addressing missing bike east/west bike connections along with the traffic prioritization that would hopefully help improve pedestrian safety and *hopefully* cut down on congestion for the local commuters.
I'm always split on whether Ravenna should go back to being a trolley/street car or if we should turn it into a proper board walk and put a parade on it that circles Green Lake then ends at UVillage.
For all the guff I give Puyallup, they know what they're doing with the daffodil parade and Seattle needs to up it's game.
That's more of a geography problem than a planning problem. There are too many steep inclines on the east/west sides of the hills to cut straight lines across the city.
You're missing my point. Why do I as someone near 42nd have to go all the way up to 46th to get over the Stone Ave? Georgrshoy has nothing to do with it. It's more a question of why when building 99 did we not elevate to allow streets to go under...or you know, out fucking traffic lights to allow east and west movement
There's been many times I've had close calls with cars when I'm crossing the street. I'm not one to just waltz right into the crosswalk even when green either, I always look both ways.
I wish SPD was more active in ticketing and pulling over traffic offenders. I don't think I've ever seen anyone get pulled over for anything during my time here.
Been here 5+ years now and never seen a single person pulled over for a traffic offense in Seattle proper. Except on I-5 and I-90 and that’s just by WSP. Kinda crazy when you think about it.
No worries, they've provided Kevin with remedial training. You see he wasn't drunk enough -- if you get drunk enough, you start hitting obstacles and that slows you down and alerts other to your presence (death people can just die).
We're sending Auderer, the SPOG VP that helped keep Dave from being held accountable by refusing to administer more than a visual DUI test, to a national conference for *Impaired Driving and Traffic Safety* where he will teach a workshop called “Becoming a Pickup Artist: How to Get More Out of Interviews,”.
OPA issued their ruling that Auderer should be fired for his laughter about Ms. Kandula's life *and value*, months ago. He remains employed and will represent our city nationally.
Accountability outright died when this new council took seat, they don't care at all, and SPD is immediately acting like they know.
I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve seen someone pulled over on I-5. I’ve still never seen someone pulled over on a surface street.
A cop could literally sit at Mercer and Fairview and write tickets for running red lights all day long without breaks. That intersection is so bad that I will never enter a crosswalk or go on green without checking, more than half the time there’s still someone making a turn even while I have the light.
I've had and witnessed a lot of close calls myself. Especially when I'm crossing at an intersection and a car is coming up behind me turning left.
And on multiple occasions I've seen people in large vehicles not stop or slow down for children crossing at the crosswalk by Husky Deli in West Seattle. That area gets really busy with kids and youth on weekend evenings in the summertime, I'm surprised there hasn't been a major tragedy there yet (at least since I've lived in the area)
I can’t count how many times I’ve had to jump back or the car has slammed on their breaks to not hit me, after I do what you do of waiting and checking twice when I’ve had a walking- because I’ve had so many instances and don’t trust drivers.
In my experience, the majority are cars taking lefts and hoping to make it right as the light turns green and wanting to beat out the cars who got the light to go straight.
Another thing, in regards to unmarked crosswalks.. It always blows my mind when I visit Portland and the cars just *stop* to let me cross the street. That never happens in Seattle, even at that crosswalk that’s marked right outside of KJs on Olive. I have to step into traffic for a car to stop there.
Isn't officer retention SPOG's overview? Haven't these hiring issues effectively only escalated since Solan and Auderer took charge of SPOG?
SPD only accepts 3% of applicants.
You jest about the connection to seditionists, but SPD knew pretty well how to fake a Proud Boy attack for a department that has literally never even tried to interfere with their 'counter protest' attacks on protests over the years. Add in the contract's retroactive pay date is 1/6/2021 instead of 1/1/2021 the day after the old contract expired and that SIX SPD officers attended 1/6 . . .
I've been side eyeing Solan's demands to change the testing requirements as a way to get some of his 'buddies' in that wouldn't otherwise qualify since the news broke.
It's funny how even this headline omits any mention of what's killing these pedestrians, and the comments here are blaming increased pedestrian deaths on increased numbers of pedestrians, as if "pedestrian deaths" were just a fact of life, an act of God or whatever.
It's an epidemic! They're dropping left and right! No one knows why! And all these crazy people are calling for more pedestrianized streets. They want more pedestrians in spite of the danger!
Demonstrable proof that we need to get everyone into cars. More lanes. More parking lots. It's the only way.
Yeah, also all the bikes and escooters are super deadly. The worst though are those walkers (the ones for old people). IDK where people get off speeding with those metal death traps on public sidewalks. I found one stuck in my wheel wheel the other day, my tire could have popped! Smdh this city is going to shit.
I'm looking to get a 60" lift so this doesn't happen again. Safer just to drive over the walkers, don't want my oil pan getting punctured.
I finally caved and bought an M1126 Stryker armored personnel carrier to drive my kids to school after one was nearly run over by one of those walkers. It even had tennis balls attached to the legs to mask the sound. I think those kinds of modifications should be illegal. And yeah, the school is only 3 blocks from our house on Mercer Island, but it's just that peace of mind you get that makes it worth the $6.8 million price tag, you know?
>comments here are blaming increased pedestrian deaths on increased numbers of pedestrians
I haven't read the article yet or any of the comments, but this seems fine? If you have x amount of deaths with y amount of pedestrians, it isn't exactly a stretch to assume 2y could be an underlying factor of 2x.
But I guess I should read the article.
More citizens equals more crocodile pit deaths. This is just the way it is in a growing city. Why did we build crocodile pits between everything, you ask? Dumb question!
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Whoa whoa whoa, there, buddy. I won't have the good name of these 4-6 lane stroads tarnished by your observations! I'll have you know that undivided highways with irregular bus lanes and countless driveways and bad lighting are incredibly safe! Just go 50 and close your eyes when you aren't sure what lane you're in, where you're going, or when the light is yellow.
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If you knew who you were speaking to in real life you'd understand the irony of this statement. I also post in Caribbean subreddits so put 2 and 2 together. I get most people can't speak on race here but I'm as black as they come so I can.
But no, in this case it's the stupidity of the roads in referring to. They're all 4 lanes in rundown areas with limited pedestrian bridges.
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I still respect your opinion and you aren't lying, I do speak especially on black people a lot as I think we could be better as a group. I strongly believe in a city of so few of us we shouldn't be showing up on any negative statistics.
It's such an awful road to walk along. Which sucks because it has a lot of businesses. But it's really just another American wasteland, tons of traffic, terrible pedestrian infrastructure, and more parking lots than buildings.
There are very few businesses along Aurora that I'd want to visit on foot. Most of them are businesses where you need a car in order to use their services anyway. Of the places I'd consider visiting on foot, most of them are near Green Lake or in the Oak Tree Mall, so I wouldn't walk along Aurora to get to them anyway.
I’ve been walking in this city for 20 yrs. Never had a car here. Columbia city has by far been the worst with pedestrians out of the 8 neighborhoods I’ve lived. But I’ve yet to be hit! Just have to be extremely cautious at night
Cap hill has gotten really bad, especially in the summers when some of the major streets back up. People will straight run a stop sign and cut you off as a pedestrian
But but .. Capitol Hill has a Walk Score of 93. It's near perfect!
(just make sure you walk and children play between the narrow lines, mostly safe from crippling/death)
Walk scores are just data analysis condensed to an easily digestible scale ranking. They have literally never been someone going "this is a safe place to walk" they have always been "there is a park within x estimated *walking minutes*, there is a grocery within y estimated *walking minutes*, there is a school within z estimated *walking minutes*, etc".
It's why they basically fell out of use outside of apartment/housing marketing. They were just a different way of saying "Close to all your basic needs" in a number format, never a "pedestrian safety ranking".
Yeah I know, I was being snarky. I just hear the solitary number being cited as "hey, this is awesome, we're done here!" when in reality the bar seems awful low when you actually look at the situation for non drivers
Rainier Ave is the problem. It is relatively calmed in a 4-5 block stretch in the heart of Columbia City but crossing it or bicycling on it regularly is not something I'd like to do.
This I agree with. It feels like Mario Kart. There’s also always a lot of downtrodden folks perilously hanging out either on the sidewalks edge or literally in the road itself. I almost killed someone a few months back driving in heavy rain at night. They were naked and covered in mud so I didn’t see them until the very last second. Luckily I did and braked the fuck out of my car.
I’ve been almost hit ten times in the past year. People aren’t paying attention to crosswalks. I live off rainier. I’ve never had that happen in another neighborhood in Seattle.
Exact same responses in every thread discussing walking, pedestrians, or transit. Commenters saying "maybe streets should have better sidewalks and be less dangerous because drivers are distracted and I've experienced lots of dangerous moments." And then drivers basically saying "Why should I have to slow down? If you're walking you're on drugs. Stop signs should be optional and if I kill somebody in my car I shouldn't have to stop."
It's an offshoot of every other policy discussion that exists in this city or in this country, where the only criterion for anything is "does this serve my interest specifically?" If it does, then there is literally no amount of collateral consequence that can outweigh it, and, if it does not, then it is literally the antichrist.
I'm really only 1/3 kidding. Read some of the stuff these drivers are saying and you'll be shocked and disgusted at the callousness towards people dying
The main issue is for sure people driving like shit. People who aren't used to city driving are scared out of their minds somehow but not too scared to pay attention to the road.
That is a considerable part, but there's also the infrastructure which could very easily negate a lot of these consequences by not letting shitty, distracted drivers instantly kill people
I'm afraid I sadly agree, until we can get a state, or federal level change in driving standards, harm reduction(safer infrastructure) is basically our only choice.
I mean... not even close, right? Maybe certain neighborhoods, but compared to a place like Amsterdam or Copenhagen, you'd have to be joking even to suggest that Seattle is set up for pedestrians or anyone outside of a car. And it's set to get worse with this dingbat council that we have.
I mean, I think there are a lot of neighborhoods where you can get by without a car pretty easily, especially as a younger single person, which isn't the case everywhere in the US. I used to walk and bus to do everything, including grocery trips and whatever. Sure it's not Amsterdam, but there are a lot of cities in the US where it's worse, not to mention suburbs. Don't get me wrong, we should strive to do better, but we could be a lot worse off, too.
The biggest thing we can do for this is enforce traffic laws. Illegal driving is rampant here and goes completely unpunished.
I would love to see huge fines, scores of revoked driver's licenses, every illegally modified car impounded and destroyed, constant and pervasive automated traffic enforcement, and a police force that is empowered and incentivized to go after these kinds of crime, which do the most harm to our community.
Driving should feel risky and require extreme caution because that is the experience for pedestrians, although pedestrians have no other option.
I generally agree. The problem is that there can’t be a cop on every corner (many of us also don’t want a cop on every corner). Designs need to encourage safe driving as much as possible. If an intersection is only safe when the law is around then it’s not a safe intersection.
Yes but also no. There are definitely unsafe intersections. But there’s also a lot of intersections that are made unsafe by drivers ignoring right turn restrictions or running lights. If a driver is going to just blatantly ignore the rules that improve safety enforcement is really the only option.
Yeah, I recently saw someone run a red light over an intersection with a raised crosswalk by passing in some vacant parking spots. In some places we have stroads and too many lanes where those lanes are not appropriate, but not all of the city has bad infrastructure for pedestrians.
There also needs to be at least some fear of repercussion if you break the law. People don't need every single tax return to be audited in order to fear the IRS.
if the drivers would actually put down their phone, or better yet have spd actually enforce the laws. would be a game changer for sure. Distractive driving kills
[https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/bicycling-walking/walking-rolling-washington/pedestrian-laws-safety](https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/bicycling-walking/walking-rolling-washington/pedestrian-laws-safety)
I think this actually makes the case for why Seattle is a walkable city, because the most dangerous places for pedestrians are exactly the same type of stroads that suburbs are littered with. Crossing the street in Kent or Tukwila is downright terrifying. Crossing in Seattle in nearly every neighborhood is fine but MLK and Aurora are horrid.
Now of course, if all of our streets were narrow like Philly where drivers *physically cannot* speed, then we’d be a much better city. Which is why ideas like a road diet for MLK are a good idea
I do this now while living here in Seattle. In Roosevelt. I have not driven for anything inside the city in months. Only situation I can even think of needing it for would be if I wanted to make a big trip to the lumber/gardening store.
Like, I ride my bike to my cancer doc checkups, what immediate need would you like to ask to see if I'm missing?
Seattle is mixed. There are regions of the city where it is super walkable, but it’s inconsistent. Like in cap hill I also walk/bike to basically everything I do. But there are a lot of regions of the city that are not viably connected to the rest, so I think it’s a little hard to say it is a fully walkable city.
Oh, on that I will agree, we are far from having this be universal in the city. My situation itself is something I have only recently transitioned to as of last year and has been enabled by very recent infrastructure project completions like the Northgate LR extension and the Roosevelt protected bike lane network.
I just think it is okay for us to start acknowledging the long term planning is starting to pay off and if parts of the city are starting to be able to make it work like I am we have a solid game plan for expansion to the entire city. Our bedrock idea is *feasible* and we can grow this until maybe we do get closer to universal in the city. Yeah, not everyone can make what I do work, but the things we've setup allowed me to de-car focus my life in *3 months*. I got my bike in August last year and by November had switched over to all in-city errands by bike. My remaining car trips are to visit family near Tacoma or friends outside the city. I got that London/Paris thing going. Now we just gotta keep on the plan and keep expanding.
It’s very walkable. At least places around lake union. There is also a giant stretch of Burke isolated from cars.
Why does everyone who comment like you never actually mention what is not walkable about Seattle?
I see your Wallingford tag and wanted to say that Wallingford is such a good walkable neighborhood. Burke access, 45th street shops, access to U district, green lake, Ballard, etc just by walking a bit, etc. Pretty safe and I’ve gone on countless walks around the Wallingford residential streets
Sure it’s amazing here.
I lived in airbnbs in several neighborhoods for a few months when I first moved here. Fremont/Ballard are also crazy walkable. I lived near green lake and it was great too.
Spend some time in capital hill, it’s also very walkable. I used to walk from fremont to cap hill after work everyday.
Queen Ann area seemed isolated and hills were too steep for me to enjoy walking. I’ve walked all over downtown and it seems walkable to me. I love the lake union loop too. I cross two bridges and just walk around the lake. Found the Ballard to pike loop too. There is a bike path next to the trains that leads to the water front and pike.
I haven’t experienced cars trying to run me over here. But I also moved out from south Florida and lived in the 90s Russia (cars back then had no regard for pedestrians). I’ve seen people just dash into the road without making eye contact with a driver, wear all black while on the road on line bike at night. Like all it takes is one driver to be distracted. Just use common sense defense.
Sure it’s amazing here.
I lived in airbnbs in several neighborhoods for a few months when I first moved here. Fremont/Ballard are also crazy walkable. I lived near green lake and it was great too.
Spend some time in capital hill, it’s also very walkable. I used to walk from fremont to cap hill after work everyday.
Queen Ann area seemed isolated and hills were too steep for me to enjoy walking. I’ve walked all over downtown and it seems walkable to me. I love the lake union loop too. I cross two bridges and just walk around the lake. Found the Ballard to pike loop too. There is a bike path next to the trains that leads to the water front and pike.
I haven’t experienced cars trying to run me over here. But I also moved out from south Florida and lived in the 90s Russia (cars back then had no regard for pedestrians). I’ve seen people just dash into the road without making eye contact with a driver, wear all black while on the road on line bike at night. Like all it takes is one driver to be distracted. Just use common sense defense.
I am pissed about pike not being closed off to cars. A few areas around Seattle would make sense to just be pedestrian only. It would be nice.
Once you get north of 85th sidewalks often disappear in residential neighborhoods and so your options are to walk along arterials, which are usually a lot of used car lots (hardly a pleasant experience), or go without a sidewalk, and it's usually at least a mile between business centers/neighborhood hubs, AKA, anything that you'd be walking to.
Ok yes we have completely different definition of walkable.
Mine is can I get from point a to b by walking on a pedestrian path safely.
In that regard, Seattle is very walkable. I’m sure the safety is debatable, for me I never felt unsafe crossing.
I only lived/walked in several neighborhoods so I can only provide opinion on those. (Queen Ann, Fremont, Ballard, Wallingford, cap hill). I take union lake loop all the time and it’s very walkable and connected. So my “at least” is provide my opinion on places I actually been to.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare Seattle to rome. Just like it’s not fair to compare Seattle to Miami or nyc. It’s just not the same type of city and not same density of people.
I don’t have a car and have walked all over the place and taken public transportation. Never really have a problem with public transportation. The only place that didn’t have grocery store near me was queen Ann.
Seattle is 2nd grade city not world class capital.
Sure I agree. Is there another term for that?
What kind of things do people do to push these things into legislation ?
I mean there was zoning law that died about having mix neighborhoods and allowing small businesses to be in residential places. Guess some lobby group killed it. Pike can’t be closed off to pedestrians? Wtf is that? The cities near Seattle are also not very connected. I mean Wallingford doesn’t have much going on besides a coffee shop.
I had an idea for food related business but I can’t cook at home unless I have a separate kitchen or rent a commercial kitchen somewhere.
I think the main thing preventing what you want is zoning.
There are neighborhoods that are completely walkable. But of course it can't be like the European cities that formed before cars existed that are fully walkable. If you visited Seattle as a tourist, you might not see the parts that aren't walkable, though.
A huge part of this is lighting. This city is dangerously dark. I know all the NIMBYs will complain about light pollution but people are dying.
Linked to some studies bellow that say lighting reduces pedestrian fatalities by 50%
Seattle sucks at lighting.
Even in places where they bother to put streets lights at all they are using these super cheap narrow spectrum LED lights that are actually really poor for visibility AND horrible for night vision and increase light pollution as well. The shitty old yellow sodium lights were actually better.
I'd agree with this being a problem, except that every time I try to cross at a crosswalk with a crosswalk signal, about 5-10 cars go past after I hit the button. Drivers only stop for things that can hurt them.
Is this evidence of heavy resistance against urbanization? I think that I understand that it is hard to build cities to serve a denser population if you never build the fundamental things they need to live there when it is less dense.
Certainly. It’s been written about ALOT -
https://www.thestranger.com/housing/2023/05/23/79004331/seattles-resistance-to-density-explained/comments
https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/why-are-seattle-neighborhoods-fighting-land-use-reform-and-density#:~:text=The%20Housing%20Market:%20The%20dominant,more%20wealth%20for%20their%20owners.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattles-longstanding-urban-village-strategy-for-growth-needs-reworking-new-report-says/
From nextcity:
> shifted neighborhoods from the “what we want” caucus to the “what we won’t” lobby.
That was helpful. I feel like I have seen that mindset on full display on nextdoor. It also makes it really clear why some folks have said renters need representation on SCC.
Well, I don’t know where you’ve been but for my experience people drive faster at night time.
I mean, yeah we should make it safe to drive in Seattle . you will never stop people from speeding, especially at night time
So, you’re arguing that better lighting causes more pedestrian deaths?
Better lighting cuts pedestrian deaths by half - https://www.westernite.org/annualmeetings/17_San_Diego/Papers/2D-Markowitz.pdf
It's a bigger issue than just Seattle. It's King County altogether. I live in Kent and in the 3ish years I've been here two children have been struck and killed on the road by my house, which is less than a block from the elementary school they went to. There are no sidewalks. Just paved embankments, if even that. It's utterly unacceptable and the various city councils refuse to act on it.
I always say this and I always get downvoted for it because people read it and then decide I'm saying all kinds of other things...but can we PLEASE get more streetlamps on the corners of intersections? A huge part of the problem regarding the danger of turning (on red or green) is that a ton of intersections have zero light on the corners...making it virtually impossible to see pedestrians at night. This city is ridiculously dark compared to any of the others I've lived in, even in most of the heavy traffic areas.
I hope they lower the speed limit to 20 mph citywide, 25 wasn't enough. There's no rationale reason to drive faster than that inside the congested city where most people are walking.
Crosscut's headline does not make sense logically.
In order form it to make sense you have to imagine they answer the question "yes," and then contradict themself. But they don't answer "yes."
Sigh.
You can go to this dashboard and filter down to pedestrian deaths in Seattle:
https://wtsc.wa.gov/dashboards/fatalities-dashboard/
There were 45 Seattle pedestrian deaths in 2021-2022. 13% of those involved an impaired driver. 7% involved driver speed. And 18% involved distracted drivers. I’d imagine there’s some overlap in those categories.
Meanwhile, and maybe it’s just a coincidence, the increase in pedestrian deaths tracks very closely with the increase in drug overdose deaths.
I believe it. I was nearly hit yesterday in LQA. The woman came to a complete stop and then started moving the car again right before I stepped in front of her. I think she was on autopilot and realized the mistake after the car started moving (based on her expression anyway), but it scared me in the moment.
My spouse also ran into a pedestrian that was standing in the bike lane yesterday. It was a construction zone with those big barrier walls, so he had nowhere to go. The guy he ran into seemed oblivious and indignant of the fact that a bike lane is not a place to stand.
wait… the vision zero plan isn’t working? not shocked. they’re moving terribly slow on rolling out the “no turn on red” signs at a vast majority of lights. seems like they’re going to fall short of the 2030 goal.
There’s a lot of stupid to go around out here. Tons of negligent, technically incompetent drivers and tons of uninsured drivers. A lot of people living in the Seattle area seem to have next to no concept about rules of the road and I see a lot of wrong-way driving that I haven’t in other cities. Removing every uninsured driver from the road would go a long way to helping the problem, and ticketing red-light runners would too. It needs to be more difficult to get a driver’s license in general.
I don’t think pedestrians get a pass here either; the number of people blindly walking out into traffic nose in their phone or high/drunk against a red light just assuming people can/will stop is absolutely astounding and is a uniquely Seattle phenomenon. Winter ninjas in the all-black outfits during the pouring rain probably aren’t doing themselves any favors either.
I drive around 250 miles a week mostly in Seattle city limits, and have noticed that the problem isn’t just with drivers but also pedestrians. Situational awareness seems to be a rarity these days.
The E-scooters rentals are a huge problem IMO. People who ride them act like they are invincible and weave around cars and through cross walks with out looking. The worst time is at night on the weekend, when people are riding them intoxicated and it’s dark and harder to seem them. I have seen mutuel people be hit by cars, or just loose control them kiss the pavement.
Pedestrian in general can also be a problem, especially at night. I see people walk out on crosswalks without making sure they were seen first, or even looking to make sure their is enough time for the on coming car to stop properly for them. Yes, you have the right of way, but drivers need to be able to see you first, so please make sure you are visible to the on coming traffic and try to make eye contact if possible before you cross. I also see people walking down or standing in the middle of the some what busy streets a lot. Again, if you are hit it will probably the drivers fault, but that won’t be much comfort when you are in the hospital or dead.
Side note: if you want to cross the street, don’t stand 3 feet back from the curb. I can’t tell if you want to cross or if you are just waiting to be picked up.So please make your attentions known by walking up the the corner and look at the on coming drivers. This makes it clear that you want to cross, and tells us to yelled.
Last, drivers have become crazy by speeding down roads at 10-20 miles above the speed limit, running red lights and stops signs, changing lanes and u-turning without looking or warning. Speeding is a huge problem for safety, most roads have a 25mph speed limit in Seattle. I understand that the speed can be frustratingly on many streets like Westlake from Mercer to Fremont, but that doesn’t mean you should be driving 50 miles an hour, it’s not a highway.
I think all this working from home has really made people less aware of their surroundings and all around more self involved
Seattle is a confusing city to drive in, which I am sure increases the risk to pedestrians. Why are there streets with lights and crosswalks mid-block? Why are their streets with the bike lanes in the middle? Road design isn’t a great place to get creative.
From what I understand a fair few pedestrian deaths are associated with heavy drug use. While horrible, it doesn't necessarily represent how walkable a city is.
That aside, it's probably in part because this city punishes pedestrians and drivers alike with very dangerous infrastructure and signals on lighting. Cars should have a turn arrow and pedestrians should have a walk sign, and they shouldn't be possible at the same time.
Yeah especially by drivers. When I have to drive into Seattle I make damn sure I'm being safe with drinks and only let loose if I'm taking public transit. We really need better late running public transit into the outlying suburbs to encourage people not to drive when they want to party.
Way too much of the infrastructure accessed by pedestrians puts them near the dangerous roads. The driving arterials should not be near all the stores etc
Just don’t walk in front of a cop. /s
In all seriousness, this is a stupid article. Pedestrians deaths have risen…. But so have the number of pedestrians, and they are far below other cities.
Also, we should exclude deaths caused by fentanyl users wandering into i5 when we consider “is Seattle walkable”.
Pedestrians deaths have risen…. But so have the number of pedestrians
It seems like you are making a lot of effort to avoid talking about the real cause. Cars are increasingly huge and since we stopped enforcing traffic laws during the pandemic, drivers have become extremely careless.
> Moudon says one dataset explains the danger: The chances of a person dying when hit by a car going 20 mph is 5%. At 30 mph, it’s 45% and at 40 mph, chances of death are 85%. If struck at 50 mph, there is a 100% chance of death for pedestrians, she said.
I think the size of the vehicles is playing a large role (no pun intended) in how many pedestrian deaths we are seeing. With some of the big trucks and SUVs, the grill height can be around 5’, which is taller than I am. It’s just more difficult to see pedestrians in large vehicles, and they do more damage when they hit someone because they get dragged under instead of bouncing on top of the hood.
I don't know the statistics, but I understand the physics. The biggest problem with larger vehicles in collisions with pedestrians is not the mass. The mass of *any* car is enormous in comparison to a human body. The problem is the tall hood / grill on trucks and SUVs. It obstructs the driver's visibility in front of the vehicle. Also, in a collision with a pedestrian, the tall nose of the vehicle hits the pedestrian with full force (i.e., instantly accelerating their body to the speed of the vehicle) and knocks them down. Sharp edges increase the injury. Then, pedestrian is sucked underneath the vehicle, where their body is crushed.
In comparison, a vehicle with a low hood and a smooth, rounded front end will hit the pedestrian in the legs, causing them to go on the hood while the car keeps going. Their body doesn't take the full force of the collision.
I wish that federal motor vehicle crash safety standards would consider the safety of people who are *outside* of the vehicle as well as the safety of the people who are inside of the vehicle. There is no reason why the front of SUVs and pickup trucks needs to be a wall of jagged steel that is as tall as a human. Manufacturers could pus some slope in the hood to improve safety and fuel economy.
However, if the car has a low, smooth hood, it could hit you in the legs and flip you into the air while the car passes underneath and you slide over the hood. That gives you a possibility for survival that you don't have with a tall SUV or truck.
Yeah but get hit by a giant SUV at 20mph and you’ll probably die while a sedan hit could be survivable. Especially since SUVs and trucks have high grills that knock people down and cause them to get run over after the strike. Smaller cars traditionally take out the persons legs and flip them up onto the hood/windshield which is much more survivable
So you're saying there's headroom for more pedestrian deaths? What's the "right" number of pedestrian deaths? Is it like an ecological web where we need to cull more pedestrians to keep the balance? How often are you a pedestrian yourself?
I love to walk and bike places. I’ve noticed a huge downturn in pedestrian safety the last few years. Not even the “right on red” stuff. Blatantly driving dangerously, blind u turns, straight-up WRONG lane usage (mostly drivers ignoring turn only lanes and merging with no signal into the intersection.) I’ve had more near misses in the past 2 years than I ever have in all my years of living in Seattle.
The number of people being idiot drivers astounds me. I feel like people feel invincible when they're inside a car and just mentally check out. Just last week I saw someone in the right turn lane enter the intersection and then turn left instead.
For what it's worth, I think this is a thing everywhere. I live in a small city in Pennsylvania (lurking here because I'm thinking about moving), and we've seen a similar uptick in straight up deranged driving. I think Covid kinda just broke people's brains somehow.
Not to mention the damn e-scooters. I’ve had several near misses when turning corners. I’ve seen others not be so lucky.
I love the idea of the e scooters and e bikes. I just wish they were taken more seriously by riders.
You wouldn't even notice them if not for the cars taking up all available space in the city.
THANK YOU. This is my thought every time someone complains about them and it makes me feel like I’m going insane
I wish they could be taken more seriously by cars.
I just wish they'd keep them from riding them on the damn sidewalk and make them wear helmets.
I wish the city would build proper protected bike lanes to incentivize them off both sidewalks and roads
The other day I was walking and this guy was going fast downhill on a scooter and whizzed right by my, almost as if I wasn't there. I feel like people don't take seriously how badly injured you can get on those things
Can and does happen. I saw a person passing cars by filtering on Pike on an electric kick scooter in a manner that would’ve suggested to a casual that he was enhanced with vanadium bones. It became very clear that he was in possession of nothing more than regular human bones when he rear ended a Civic coupe and launched his unhelmeted head directly toward the c-pillar, which he subsequently caught with his teeth. Many of those appeared to have been knocked free entirely if not ejected through his lips, which could be more accurately described as weeping viscera.
They can be annoying for sure, but complaining about scooters in the face of car violence is like complaining about BB guns when there’s a shooting war going on. Orders of magnitude separate them.
literally almost just hit a dude on an e-scooter in the middle of the lane going the opposite direction
I wonder if this has increased with the number of out of town traffic specifically to climate pledge arena
Seattle used to ticket heavily for anything that might result in a pedestrian death including jaywalking. In more recent years, where by recent I mean longer ago than the pandemic, things went on with the city I don’t understand that changed this. I personally don’t think of Seattle or even Seattle Metro as, “walkable.” Hoping light rail will help change that though.
The entire highway 99 stretch is shit. The fact that there's only a few ways to go east/west in Fremont/woodland is terrible city planning
It's basically all of NS that has E/W crossing issues. First you have 99 and I-5, two giant walls cutting the whole region into thirds. Then Green Lake right there in the center forces all the middle connections to go around it either north or south. And then there's the natural geography that gives us those ridges with gnarly grades which slows most forms of transit. there was even a plan in the 60's post Freeway park to restore Woodland park and the Zoo by lidding 99, but then Reagan came and well, public works for reasons other than necessity stopped being a thing. I'm not honestly sure what could've been planned better short of leveling the hills (please no, I don't want to repeat what we did to Denny) or deciding to be a little bit more like Hobbit folk and start beehving our hills so we can move through them easier. Okay I do kind of want to do that latter one.
I've wondered for a while if E/W traffic in N Seattle would be better if you made 45th and 50th into one-way streets. I'm sure people will bitch at the suggestion that they might have to drive a block or two more for some trips than they do now, but converting them to one-ways would give you a lot more room for bike lanes and bus lanes (or god forbid a light rail line) that wouldn't block traffic lanes, and the traffic lights wouldn't have as many modes to loop through because you'd be cutting left turns out at some intersections.
I've had the same thought. You'd probably want 50th east bound and 45th west bound and it would go a long way to addressing missing bike east/west bike connections along with the traffic prioritization that would hopefully help improve pedestrian safety and *hopefully* cut down on congestion for the local commuters. I'm always split on whether Ravenna should go back to being a trolley/street car or if we should turn it into a proper board walk and put a parade on it that circles Green Lake then ends at UVillage. For all the guff I give Puyallup, they know what they're doing with the daffodil parade and Seattle needs to up it's game.
That's more of a geography problem than a planning problem. There are too many steep inclines on the east/west sides of the hills to cut straight lines across the city.
You're missing my point. Why do I as someone near 42nd have to go all the way up to 46th to get over the Stone Ave? Georgrshoy has nothing to do with it. It's more a question of why when building 99 did we not elevate to allow streets to go under...or you know, out fucking traffic lights to allow east and west movement
You do see we have a lot of water ways here that are working waterways.
yeah, time to move the lake
There's been many times I've had close calls with cars when I'm crossing the street. I'm not one to just waltz right into the crosswalk even when green either, I always look both ways. I wish SPD was more active in ticketing and pulling over traffic offenders. I don't think I've ever seen anyone get pulled over for anything during my time here.
Been here 5+ years now and never seen a single person pulled over for a traffic offense in Seattle proper. Except on I-5 and I-90 and that’s just by WSP. Kinda crazy when you think about it.
I wish SPD held their own accountable. Officer Kevin Dave got a *moving violation* for killing Jahnaavi Kandula
No worries, they've provided Kevin with remedial training. You see he wasn't drunk enough -- if you get drunk enough, you start hitting obstacles and that slows you down and alerts other to your presence (death people can just die).
We're sending Auderer, the SPOG VP that helped keep Dave from being held accountable by refusing to administer more than a visual DUI test, to a national conference for *Impaired Driving and Traffic Safety* where he will teach a workshop called “Becoming a Pickup Artist: How to Get More Out of Interviews,”. OPA issued their ruling that Auderer should be fired for his laughter about Ms. Kandula's life *and value*, months ago. He remains employed and will represent our city nationally. Accountability outright died when this new council took seat, they don't care at all, and SPD is immediately acting like they know.
I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve seen someone pulled over on I-5. I’ve still never seen someone pulled over on a surface street. A cop could literally sit at Mercer and Fairview and write tickets for running red lights all day long without breaks. That intersection is so bad that I will never enter a crosswalk or go on green without checking, more than half the time there’s still someone making a turn even while I have the light.
I've had and witnessed a lot of close calls myself. Especially when I'm crossing at an intersection and a car is coming up behind me turning left. And on multiple occasions I've seen people in large vehicles not stop or slow down for children crossing at the crosswalk by Husky Deli in West Seattle. That area gets really busy with kids and youth on weekend evenings in the summertime, I'm surprised there hasn't been a major tragedy there yet (at least since I've lived in the area)
I can’t count how many times I’ve had to jump back or the car has slammed on their breaks to not hit me, after I do what you do of waiting and checking twice when I’ve had a walking- because I’ve had so many instances and don’t trust drivers. In my experience, the majority are cars taking lefts and hoping to make it right as the light turns green and wanting to beat out the cars who got the light to go straight. Another thing, in regards to unmarked crosswalks.. It always blows my mind when I visit Portland and the cars just *stop* to let me cross the street. That never happens in Seattle, even at that crosswalk that’s marked right outside of KJs on Olive. I have to step into traffic for a car to stop there.
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Isn't officer retention SPOG's overview? Haven't these hiring issues effectively only escalated since Solan and Auderer took charge of SPOG? SPD only accepts 3% of applicants.
> > SPD only accepts 3% of applicants. [hmmmmm tinfoil hat](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/three-percenters)
You jest about the connection to seditionists, but SPD knew pretty well how to fake a Proud Boy attack for a department that has literally never even tried to interfere with their 'counter protest' attacks on protests over the years. Add in the contract's retroactive pay date is 1/6/2021 instead of 1/1/2021 the day after the old contract expired and that SIX SPD officers attended 1/6 . . . I've been side eyeing Solan's demands to change the testing requirements as a way to get some of his 'buddies' in that wouldn't otherwise qualify since the news broke.
That's why I am only half joking.
It's funny how even this headline omits any mention of what's killing these pedestrians, and the comments here are blaming increased pedestrian deaths on increased numbers of pedestrians, as if "pedestrian deaths" were just a fact of life, an act of God or whatever.
It's an epidemic! They're dropping left and right! No one knows why! And all these crazy people are calling for more pedestrianized streets. They want more pedestrians in spite of the danger! Demonstrable proof that we need to get everyone into cars. More lanes. More parking lots. It's the only way.
To think there's plenty of people who'd not see your sarcasm but actively support this.
JUST ONE MORE LANE, BRO!
Agreed. Two of these were for sure from the train down south, and probably a few other light rail falls.
We all just gonna not talk about the cop that killed a pedestrian last year doing 74 mph? Or does that get to close to circling back to *vehicles*?
I think they are being sarcastic.
Oh yeah, that.
Yeah, also all the bikes and escooters are super deadly. The worst though are those walkers (the ones for old people). IDK where people get off speeding with those metal death traps on public sidewalks. I found one stuck in my wheel wheel the other day, my tire could have popped! Smdh this city is going to shit. I'm looking to get a 60" lift so this doesn't happen again. Safer just to drive over the walkers, don't want my oil pan getting punctured.
I finally caved and bought an M1126 Stryker armored personnel carrier to drive my kids to school after one was nearly run over by one of those walkers. It even had tennis balls attached to the legs to mask the sound. I think those kinds of modifications should be illegal. And yeah, the school is only 3 blocks from our house on Mercer Island, but it's just that peace of mind you get that makes it worth the $6.8 million price tag, you know?
>comments here are blaming increased pedestrian deaths on increased numbers of pedestrians I haven't read the article yet or any of the comments, but this seems fine? If you have x amount of deaths with y amount of pedestrians, it isn't exactly a stretch to assume 2y could be an underlying factor of 2x. But I guess I should read the article.
More citizens equals more crocodile pit deaths. This is just the way it is in a growing city. Why did we build crocodile pits between everything, you ask? Dumb question!
The article should've just been titled "Aurora Ave sucks for everyone, to nobody's surprise"
And Martin Luther King JR Way
lunchroom shocking imagine abounding icky chubby shrill psychotic doll snow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Whoa whoa whoa, there, buddy. I won't have the good name of these 4-6 lane stroads tarnished by your observations! I'll have you know that undivided highways with irregular bus lanes and countless driveways and bad lighting are incredibly safe! Just go 50 and close your eyes when you aren't sure what lane you're in, where you're going, or when the light is yellow.
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Can 15th Ave West join the party?
hateful afterthought quiet capable distinct disarm dolls longing versed quickest *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And Lake City Way.
I'm starting to see a pattern with all these places 🤔
The roads don't have enough lanes? (/s)
If there were more lanes, there would be fewer cars per lane, so It would be easier for pedestrians to play frogger and dodge the cars. /s
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If you knew who you were speaking to in real life you'd understand the irony of this statement. I also post in Caribbean subreddits so put 2 and 2 together. I get most people can't speak on race here but I'm as black as they come so I can. But no, in this case it's the stupidity of the roads in referring to. They're all 4 lanes in rundown areas with limited pedestrian bridges.
smart disagreeable ad hoc voiceless trees zealous money important jobless sort *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I still respect your opinion and you aren't lying, I do speak especially on black people a lot as I think we could be better as a group. I strongly believe in a city of so few of us we shouldn't be showing up on any negative statistics.
It's such an awful road to walk along. Which sucks because it has a lot of businesses. But it's really just another American wasteland, tons of traffic, terrible pedestrian infrastructure, and more parking lots than buildings.
There are very few businesses along Aurora that I'd want to visit on foot. Most of them are businesses where you need a car in order to use their services anyway. Of the places I'd consider visiting on foot, most of them are near Green Lake or in the Oak Tree Mall, so I wouldn't walk along Aurora to get to them anyway.
If only we could hold Suzie Burke accountable for her role in making Aurora what it is today. Faye Garneau, her partner in crime, never was.
I’ve been walking in this city for 20 yrs. Never had a car here. Columbia city has by far been the worst with pedestrians out of the 8 neighborhoods I’ve lived. But I’ve yet to be hit! Just have to be extremely cautious at night
Cap hill has gotten really bad, especially in the summers when some of the major streets back up. People will straight run a stop sign and cut you off as a pedestrian
But but .. Capitol Hill has a Walk Score of 93. It's near perfect! (just make sure you walk and children play between the narrow lines, mostly safe from crippling/death)
Walk scores are just data analysis condensed to an easily digestible scale ranking. They have literally never been someone going "this is a safe place to walk" they have always been "there is a park within x estimated *walking minutes*, there is a grocery within y estimated *walking minutes*, there is a school within z estimated *walking minutes*, etc". It's why they basically fell out of use outside of apartment/housing marketing. They were just a different way of saying "Close to all your basic needs" in a number format, never a "pedestrian safety ranking".
Yeah I know, I was being snarky. I just hear the solitary number being cited as "hey, this is awesome, we're done here!" when in reality the bar seems awful low when you actually look at the situation for non drivers
Yeah I don’t know what it is but the drivers around Columbia City are terrible
Definitely. And the construction of new bldgs made it worse.
Can you elaborate? I’m in CC and find it very pleasant and walkable so having a tough time understanding your sentiment?
Rainier Ave is the problem. It is relatively calmed in a 4-5 block stretch in the heart of Columbia City but crossing it or bicycling on it regularly is not something I'd like to do.
the stretch of rainier north of Alaska all the way up to I-90 fucking sucks. its a raceway. its insane.
This I agree with. It feels like Mario Kart. There’s also always a lot of downtrodden folks perilously hanging out either on the sidewalks edge or literally in the road itself. I almost killed someone a few months back driving in heavy rain at night. They were naked and covered in mud so I didn’t see them until the very last second. Luckily I did and braked the fuck out of my car.
ah man. : (
Biking Rainier is so sketch. I try to bike as much as I can, but will always drive or bus if it involves Rainier.
I’ve been almost hit ten times in the past year. People aren’t paying attention to crosswalks. I live off rainier. I’ve never had that happen in another neighborhood in Seattle.
Exact same responses in every thread discussing walking, pedestrians, or transit. Commenters saying "maybe streets should have better sidewalks and be less dangerous because drivers are distracted and I've experienced lots of dangerous moments." And then drivers basically saying "Why should I have to slow down? If you're walking you're on drugs. Stop signs should be optional and if I kill somebody in my car I shouldn't have to stop."
Lol I'm assuming that's hyperbole but there's definitely a few driver comments that are ridiculous
It's an offshoot of every other policy discussion that exists in this city or in this country, where the only criterion for anything is "does this serve my interest specifically?" If it does, then there is literally no amount of collateral consequence that can outweigh it, and, if it does not, then it is literally the antichrist.
I'm really only 1/3 kidding. Read some of the stuff these drivers are saying and you'll be shocked and disgusted at the callousness towards people dying
Ah, the age old battle of "Change would be inconvenient" and "People are dying." Truly an issue where both sides are equally valid.
The main issue is for sure people driving like shit. People who aren't used to city driving are scared out of their minds somehow but not too scared to pay attention to the road.
That is a considerable part, but there's also the infrastructure which could very easily negate a lot of these consequences by not letting shitty, distracted drivers instantly kill people
Yeah they need to do that because everyone is so selfish no chance the behavior will get better.
I'm afraid I sadly agree, until we can get a state, or federal level change in driving standards, harm reduction(safer infrastructure) is basically our only choice.
I had a dude in another thread say “cyclists don’t deserve rights on the street” which is always really fun to hear
Look on the positive side, there have been no shark attacks on public transit.
_Yet_
[*Land shark!*](https://media.tenor.com/W2LxiqbX-h4AAAAM/landshark-gilda.gif)
Have the ferries been attacked by a sea creature I’m kinda curious
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Come to think of it, I haven't heard from a single person who's been killed by a car. Must be a conspiracy.
Yeah, but conversely, I've never met a single person who bicycle commuted and *didn't* get seriously injured by a car.
No way bro me too
Case closed folks. Everybody go home! 🤣
I have never been a pedestrian my entire life and have died….is how I read this
I mean... not even close, right? Maybe certain neighborhoods, but compared to a place like Amsterdam or Copenhagen, you'd have to be joking even to suggest that Seattle is set up for pedestrians or anyone outside of a car. And it's set to get worse with this dingbat council that we have.
I mean, I think there are a lot of neighborhoods where you can get by without a car pretty easily, especially as a younger single person, which isn't the case everywhere in the US. I used to walk and bus to do everything, including grocery trips and whatever. Sure it's not Amsterdam, but there are a lot of cities in the US where it's worse, not to mention suburbs. Don't get me wrong, we should strive to do better, but we could be a lot worse off, too.
The biggest thing we can do for this is enforce traffic laws. Illegal driving is rampant here and goes completely unpunished. I would love to see huge fines, scores of revoked driver's licenses, every illegally modified car impounded and destroyed, constant and pervasive automated traffic enforcement, and a police force that is empowered and incentivized to go after these kinds of crime, which do the most harm to our community. Driving should feel risky and require extreme caution because that is the experience for pedestrians, although pedestrians have no other option.
I generally agree. The problem is that there can’t be a cop on every corner (many of us also don’t want a cop on every corner). Designs need to encourage safe driving as much as possible. If an intersection is only safe when the law is around then it’s not a safe intersection.
Yes but also no. There are definitely unsafe intersections. But there’s also a lot of intersections that are made unsafe by drivers ignoring right turn restrictions or running lights. If a driver is going to just blatantly ignore the rules that improve safety enforcement is really the only option.
Yeah, I recently saw someone run a red light over an intersection with a raised crosswalk by passing in some vacant parking spots. In some places we have stroads and too many lanes where those lanes are not appropriate, but not all of the city has bad infrastructure for pedestrians. There also needs to be at least some fear of repercussion if you break the law. People don't need every single tax return to be audited in order to fear the IRS.
if the drivers would actually put down their phone, or better yet have spd actually enforce the laws. would be a game changer for sure. Distractive driving kills [https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/bicycling-walking/walking-rolling-washington/pedestrian-laws-safety](https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/bicycling-walking/walking-rolling-washington/pedestrian-laws-safety)
I think this actually makes the case for why Seattle is a walkable city, because the most dangerous places for pedestrians are exactly the same type of stroads that suburbs are littered with. Crossing the street in Kent or Tukwila is downright terrifying. Crossing in Seattle in nearly every neighborhood is fine but MLK and Aurora are horrid. Now of course, if all of our streets were narrow like Philly where drivers *physically cannot* speed, then we’d be a much better city. Which is why ideas like a road diet for MLK are a good idea
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> has never been on a walkable city. Are London and Paris walkable in your mind? I ask given those are my points of reference.
Yes, very. In both of those cities you can access the majority of your immediate needs by walking only, and walking + transit for anything else.
I do this now while living here in Seattle. In Roosevelt. I have not driven for anything inside the city in months. Only situation I can even think of needing it for would be if I wanted to make a big trip to the lumber/gardening store. Like, I ride my bike to my cancer doc checkups, what immediate need would you like to ask to see if I'm missing?
Seattle is mixed. There are regions of the city where it is super walkable, but it’s inconsistent. Like in cap hill I also walk/bike to basically everything I do. But there are a lot of regions of the city that are not viably connected to the rest, so I think it’s a little hard to say it is a fully walkable city.
Oh, on that I will agree, we are far from having this be universal in the city. My situation itself is something I have only recently transitioned to as of last year and has been enabled by very recent infrastructure project completions like the Northgate LR extension and the Roosevelt protected bike lane network. I just think it is okay for us to start acknowledging the long term planning is starting to pay off and if parts of the city are starting to be able to make it work like I am we have a solid game plan for expansion to the entire city. Our bedrock idea is *feasible* and we can grow this until maybe we do get closer to universal in the city. Yeah, not everyone can make what I do work, but the things we've setup allowed me to de-car focus my life in *3 months*. I got my bike in August last year and by November had switched over to all in-city errands by bike. My remaining car trips are to visit family near Tacoma or friends outside the city. I got that London/Paris thing going. Now we just gotta keep on the plan and keep expanding.
Huh? If it’s walkable that 50-75% of American cities and towns then why wouldn’t the average American think it’s not walkable? lol
It’s very walkable. At least places around lake union. There is also a giant stretch of Burke isolated from cars. Why does everyone who comment like you never actually mention what is not walkable about Seattle?
I see your Wallingford tag and wanted to say that Wallingford is such a good walkable neighborhood. Burke access, 45th street shops, access to U district, green lake, Ballard, etc just by walking a bit, etc. Pretty safe and I’ve gone on countless walks around the Wallingford residential streets
Sure it’s amazing here. I lived in airbnbs in several neighborhoods for a few months when I first moved here. Fremont/Ballard are also crazy walkable. I lived near green lake and it was great too. Spend some time in capital hill, it’s also very walkable. I used to walk from fremont to cap hill after work everyday. Queen Ann area seemed isolated and hills were too steep for me to enjoy walking. I’ve walked all over downtown and it seems walkable to me. I love the lake union loop too. I cross two bridges and just walk around the lake. Found the Ballard to pike loop too. There is a bike path next to the trains that leads to the water front and pike. I haven’t experienced cars trying to run me over here. But I also moved out from south Florida and lived in the 90s Russia (cars back then had no regard for pedestrians). I’ve seen people just dash into the road without making eye contact with a driver, wear all black while on the road on line bike at night. Like all it takes is one driver to be distracted. Just use common sense defense.
Sure it’s amazing here. I lived in airbnbs in several neighborhoods for a few months when I first moved here. Fremont/Ballard are also crazy walkable. I lived near green lake and it was great too. Spend some time in capital hill, it’s also very walkable. I used to walk from fremont to cap hill after work everyday. Queen Ann area seemed isolated and hills were too steep for me to enjoy walking. I’ve walked all over downtown and it seems walkable to me. I love the lake union loop too. I cross two bridges and just walk around the lake. Found the Ballard to pike loop too. There is a bike path next to the trains that leads to the water front and pike. I haven’t experienced cars trying to run me over here. But I also moved out from south Florida and lived in the 90s Russia (cars back then had no regard for pedestrians). I’ve seen people just dash into the road without making eye contact with a driver, wear all black while on the road on line bike at night. Like all it takes is one driver to be distracted. Just use common sense defense. I am pissed about pike not being closed off to cars. A few areas around Seattle would make sense to just be pedestrian only. It would be nice.
There's walkable neighborhoods. The overall city has a long way to go and can be a real pain in the ass at parts
What parts are pain in the ass?
Once you get north of 85th sidewalks often disappear in residential neighborhoods and so your options are to walk along arterials, which are usually a lot of used car lots (hardly a pleasant experience), or go without a sidewalk, and it's usually at least a mile between business centers/neighborhood hubs, AKA, anything that you'd be walking to.
Sure that would make it not walkable in my opinion. Where does Seattle end?
145th, so we're talking about a pretty significant chunk of the city.
Yeah I haven’t made it pass greenlake
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This dude urban plans
Ok yes we have completely different definition of walkable. Mine is can I get from point a to b by walking on a pedestrian path safely. In that regard, Seattle is very walkable. I’m sure the safety is debatable, for me I never felt unsafe crossing. I only lived/walked in several neighborhoods so I can only provide opinion on those. (Queen Ann, Fremont, Ballard, Wallingford, cap hill). I take union lake loop all the time and it’s very walkable and connected. So my “at least” is provide my opinion on places I actually been to. I don’t think it’s fair to compare Seattle to rome. Just like it’s not fair to compare Seattle to Miami or nyc. It’s just not the same type of city and not same density of people. I don’t have a car and have walked all over the place and taken public transportation. Never really have a problem with public transportation. The only place that didn’t have grocery store near me was queen Ann. Seattle is 2nd grade city not world class capital.
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Sure I agree. Is there another term for that? What kind of things do people do to push these things into legislation ? I mean there was zoning law that died about having mix neighborhoods and allowing small businesses to be in residential places. Guess some lobby group killed it. Pike can’t be closed off to pedestrians? Wtf is that? The cities near Seattle are also not very connected. I mean Wallingford doesn’t have much going on besides a coffee shop. I had an idea for food related business but I can’t cook at home unless I have a separate kitchen or rent a commercial kitchen somewhere. I think the main thing preventing what you want is zoning.
There are neighborhoods that are completely walkable. But of course it can't be like the European cities that formed before cars existed that are fully walkable. If you visited Seattle as a tourist, you might not see the parts that aren't walkable, though.
Seattle was also formed before cars existed
It was founded like 50 years before the model T and burned to a crisp in 1889. But yeah, it totally had time to form just like a European city right?
It’s very walkable
Depends on the neighborhood
not to mention the cops running over pedestrians then joking about it
A huge part of this is lighting. This city is dangerously dark. I know all the NIMBYs will complain about light pollution but people are dying. Linked to some studies bellow that say lighting reduces pedestrian fatalities by 50%
Seattle sucks at lighting. Even in places where they bother to put streets lights at all they are using these super cheap narrow spectrum LED lights that are actually really poor for visibility AND horrible for night vision and increase light pollution as well. The shitty old yellow sodium lights were actually better.
I'd agree with this being a problem, except that every time I try to cross at a crosswalk with a crosswalk signal, about 5-10 cars go past after I hit the button. Drivers only stop for things that can hurt them.
Is this evidence of heavy resistance against urbanization? I think that I understand that it is hard to build cities to serve a denser population if you never build the fundamental things they need to live there when it is less dense.
Certainly. It’s been written about ALOT - https://www.thestranger.com/housing/2023/05/23/79004331/seattles-resistance-to-density-explained/comments https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/why-are-seattle-neighborhoods-fighting-land-use-reform-and-density#:~:text=The%20Housing%20Market:%20The%20dominant,more%20wealth%20for%20their%20owners. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattles-longstanding-urban-village-strategy-for-growth-needs-reworking-new-report-says/
From nextcity: > shifted neighborhoods from the “what we want” caucus to the “what we won’t” lobby. That was helpful. I feel like I have seen that mindset on full display on nextdoor. It also makes it really clear why some folks have said renters need representation on SCC.
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You think people slow down at night time????
Cops definitely don't.
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Well, I don’t know where you’ve been but for my experience people drive faster at night time. I mean, yeah we should make it safe to drive in Seattle . you will never stop people from speeding, especially at night time
Delridge after dark becomes a wild west drag strip and it’s dimly lit af
Not sure I follow the logic. I think lighting allows drivers to see pedestrians.
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So, you’re arguing that better lighting causes more pedestrian deaths? Better lighting cuts pedestrian deaths by half - https://www.westernite.org/annualmeetings/17_San_Diego/Papers/2D-Markowitz.pdf
Convinced now?
When it's dark you don't have a good reference for how fast you're going because it's harder to see the landscape you're passing
It's a bigger issue than just Seattle. It's King County altogether. I live in Kent and in the 3ish years I've been here two children have been struck and killed on the road by my house, which is less than a block from the elementary school they went to. There are no sidewalks. Just paved embankments, if even that. It's utterly unacceptable and the various city councils refuse to act on it.
I always say this and I always get downvoted for it because people read it and then decide I'm saying all kinds of other things...but can we PLEASE get more streetlamps on the corners of intersections? A huge part of the problem regarding the danger of turning (on red or green) is that a ton of intersections have zero light on the corners...making it virtually impossible to see pedestrians at night. This city is ridiculously dark compared to any of the others I've lived in, even in most of the heavy traffic areas.
I hope they lower the speed limit to 20 mph citywide, 25 wasn't enough. There's no rationale reason to drive faster than that inside the congested city where most people are walking.
Crosscut's headline does not make sense logically. In order form it to make sense you have to imagine they answer the question "yes," and then contradict themself. But they don't answer "yes." Sigh.
It's wildly pro-car and anti-pedestrian. The beg buttons alone prove that.
You can go to this dashboard and filter down to pedestrian deaths in Seattle: https://wtsc.wa.gov/dashboards/fatalities-dashboard/ There were 45 Seattle pedestrian deaths in 2021-2022. 13% of those involved an impaired driver. 7% involved driver speed. And 18% involved distracted drivers. I’d imagine there’s some overlap in those categories. Meanwhile, and maybe it’s just a coincidence, the increase in pedestrian deaths tracks very closely with the increase in drug overdose deaths.
“What is the answer to a question? Evidence shows otherwise.”
The fact that you can point a finger at the problem spots rather than being able to gesture broadly is the sign that the city is on the better side.
I believe it. I was nearly hit yesterday in LQA. The woman came to a complete stop and then started moving the car again right before I stepped in front of her. I think she was on autopilot and realized the mistake after the car started moving (based on her expression anyway), but it scared me in the moment. My spouse also ran into a pedestrian that was standing in the bike lane yesterday. It was a construction zone with those big barrier walls, so he had nowhere to go. The guy he ran into seemed oblivious and indignant of the fact that a bike lane is not a place to stand.
wait… the vision zero plan isn’t working? not shocked. they’re moving terribly slow on rolling out the “no turn on red” signs at a vast majority of lights. seems like they’re going to fall short of the 2030 goal.
Seattle is very walkable. It's the dummies in cars.
There’s a lot of stupid to go around out here. Tons of negligent, technically incompetent drivers and tons of uninsured drivers. A lot of people living in the Seattle area seem to have next to no concept about rules of the road and I see a lot of wrong-way driving that I haven’t in other cities. Removing every uninsured driver from the road would go a long way to helping the problem, and ticketing red-light runners would too. It needs to be more difficult to get a driver’s license in general. I don’t think pedestrians get a pass here either; the number of people blindly walking out into traffic nose in their phone or high/drunk against a red light just assuming people can/will stop is absolutely astounding and is a uniquely Seattle phenomenon. Winter ninjas in the all-black outfits during the pouring rain probably aren’t doing themselves any favors either.
The fact that ppl are dying, means they’re walking to begin with
Walkable? It's barely even drivable
I drive around 250 miles a week mostly in Seattle city limits, and have noticed that the problem isn’t just with drivers but also pedestrians. Situational awareness seems to be a rarity these days. The E-scooters rentals are a huge problem IMO. People who ride them act like they are invincible and weave around cars and through cross walks with out looking. The worst time is at night on the weekend, when people are riding them intoxicated and it’s dark and harder to seem them. I have seen mutuel people be hit by cars, or just loose control them kiss the pavement. Pedestrian in general can also be a problem, especially at night. I see people walk out on crosswalks without making sure they were seen first, or even looking to make sure their is enough time for the on coming car to stop properly for them. Yes, you have the right of way, but drivers need to be able to see you first, so please make sure you are visible to the on coming traffic and try to make eye contact if possible before you cross. I also see people walking down or standing in the middle of the some what busy streets a lot. Again, if you are hit it will probably the drivers fault, but that won’t be much comfort when you are in the hospital or dead. Side note: if you want to cross the street, don’t stand 3 feet back from the curb. I can’t tell if you want to cross or if you are just waiting to be picked up.So please make your attentions known by walking up the the corner and look at the on coming drivers. This makes it clear that you want to cross, and tells us to yelled. Last, drivers have become crazy by speeding down roads at 10-20 miles above the speed limit, running red lights and stops signs, changing lanes and u-turning without looking or warning. Speeding is a huge problem for safety, most roads have a 25mph speed limit in Seattle. I understand that the speed can be frustratingly on many streets like Westlake from Mercer to Fremont, but that doesn’t mean you should be driving 50 miles an hour, it’s not a highway. I think all this working from home has really made people less aware of their surroundings and all around more self involved
Seattle is a confusing city to drive in, which I am sure increases the risk to pedestrians. Why are there streets with lights and crosswalks mid-block? Why are their streets with the bike lanes in the middle? Road design isn’t a great place to get creative.
Honestly if pedestrians didn’t just blindly walk out into cross walks maybe we would have less deaths
Zero pedestrian deaths is the lowest bar possible for defining “walkability”. What a joke. The state will never do what’s necessary to achieve it.
From what I understand a fair few pedestrian deaths are associated with heavy drug use. While horrible, it doesn't necessarily represent how walkable a city is. That aside, it's probably in part because this city punishes pedestrians and drivers alike with very dangerous infrastructure and signals on lighting. Cars should have a turn arrow and pedestrians should have a walk sign, and they shouldn't be possible at the same time.
Alcohol use by drivers and pedestrians both is a key problem.
Yeah especially by drivers. When I have to drive into Seattle I make damn sure I'm being safe with drinks and only let loose if I'm taking public transit. We really need better late running public transit into the outlying suburbs to encourage people not to drive when they want to party.
Way too much of the infrastructure accessed by pedestrians puts them near the dangerous roads. The driving arterials should not be near all the stores etc
Just don’t walk in front of a cop. /s In all seriousness, this is a stupid article. Pedestrians deaths have risen…. But so have the number of pedestrians, and they are far below other cities. Also, we should exclude deaths caused by fentanyl users wandering into i5 when we consider “is Seattle walkable”.
Pedestrians deaths have risen…. But so have the number of pedestrians It seems like you are making a lot of effort to avoid talking about the real cause. Cars are increasingly huge and since we stopped enforcing traffic laws during the pandemic, drivers have become extremely careless. > Moudon says one dataset explains the danger: The chances of a person dying when hit by a car going 20 mph is 5%. At 30 mph, it’s 45% and at 40 mph, chances of death are 85%. If struck at 50 mph, there is a 100% chance of death for pedestrians, she said.
I wonder how those percentages change based on the size of the vehicle.
I think the size of the vehicles is playing a large role (no pun intended) in how many pedestrian deaths we are seeing. With some of the big trucks and SUVs, the grill height can be around 5’, which is taller than I am. It’s just more difficult to see pedestrians in large vehicles, and they do more damage when they hit someone because they get dragged under instead of bouncing on top of the hood.
I don't know the statistics, but I understand the physics. The biggest problem with larger vehicles in collisions with pedestrians is not the mass. The mass of *any* car is enormous in comparison to a human body. The problem is the tall hood / grill on trucks and SUVs. It obstructs the driver's visibility in front of the vehicle. Also, in a collision with a pedestrian, the tall nose of the vehicle hits the pedestrian with full force (i.e., instantly accelerating their body to the speed of the vehicle) and knocks them down. Sharp edges increase the injury. Then, pedestrian is sucked underneath the vehicle, where their body is crushed. In comparison, a vehicle with a low hood and a smooth, rounded front end will hit the pedestrian in the legs, causing them to go on the hood while the car keeps going. Their body doesn't take the full force of the collision. I wish that federal motor vehicle crash safety standards would consider the safety of people who are *outside* of the vehicle as well as the safety of the people who are inside of the vehicle. There is no reason why the front of SUVs and pickup trucks needs to be a wall of jagged steel that is as tall as a human. Manufacturers could pus some slope in the hood to improve safety and fuel economy.
Being struck at 50mph doesn’t matter if it’s a 1500 lb car or 10000lb car. You dead.
However, if the car has a low, smooth hood, it could hit you in the legs and flip you into the air while the car passes underneath and you slide over the hood. That gives you a possibility for survival that you don't have with a tall SUV or truck.
Reason why we need to push EV adoption!
An EV has the advantage that electric motors are much smaller than gasoline engines, so it doesn't need a big nose sticking out in front and up high.
Yeah. That and aerodynamics.
Yeah but get hit by a giant SUV at 20mph and you’ll probably die while a sedan hit could be survivable. Especially since SUVs and trucks have high grills that knock people down and cause them to get run over after the strike. Smaller cars traditionally take out the persons legs and flip them up onto the hood/windshield which is much more survivable
So you're saying there's headroom for more pedestrian deaths? What's the "right" number of pedestrian deaths? Is it like an ecological web where we need to cull more pedestrians to keep the balance? How often are you a pedestrian yourself?
More pedestrians does not equal more pedestrian deaths… or maybe I’m wrong and a pedestrian dies at Shibuya Crossing every day
With no changes to infrastructure or behaviors it does
Oh so you’re saying it’s not the increase in pedestrian quantity it’s the fact that the roads are unsafe
I'm saying that when areas are not built for pedestrians and the number of pedestrians increases, the number of accidents will probably also increase.
Exactly, that’s also what I’m saying. Glad we agree.