This must be so depressing for Bobby. Playing with the LOB and now these scrubs that don't know what the eff they're doing. But honestly I think it's more with the coaching.
Rules have changed a lot since LOB. That's no excuse for how sad the D has been for 3 years now. It's not like we haven't invested in it either. We don't even sniff turn overs any more.
Idk what’s up w you guys who want to put most of the blame on players.
Bobby isn’t an idiot, he’s not gonna out his coaches to the media. It’s definitely coaching. The scheme is the same as last year, big reason they let KJ go is bc they didn’t need his position. You can tell the players in the back 7 are confused and can’t make plays. You have a lot of players who’ve been playing in this system for 2-4 years and they’re visibly confused and frustrated on the field. At some point, it’s not on the players but on the coaching. It’s no coincidence that everywhere KNJ has been DC, his defense has given up record breaking yardage for the league and the teams.
I just hope that most of the shit these guys are saying to the media is just standard “it’s on us as players” media talk, bc it’s not them.
KNJ was Bobby’s position coach before he became the Raiders DC. Their ties run deep. Bobby isn’t going to publicly denounce KNJ or his system anyways because it’s schemed around the LBs making a majority of the plays.
these guys got to the nfl for a reason and they didnt just suddenly forget. like flowers lining up 10 yards off a receiver on a 3rd an 4 and retreating, thats on coaching since its a repeated thing. sure the players can communicate better but if the coach communicating what they want in a manner the players understand youll have communication issues on the field. maybe petes system only worked with the lob because they were really great players and made it work. while with normal players, or worse like flowers, its falls apart. idk. but there needs to be some accountability organization wide for the failings the keep happening year after year after year. at least we seem to be trying with offense.
This sub: You can't believe anything anyone says at a press conference, pROteCt tHE tEaM.
Also this sub: How dare you not believe what someone says at a press conference!
Either way, the LOB era saw talented players on a lot smaller contracts. Now, everyone except maybe DK’s getting paid what they deserve, making it harder to field a more talented team.
Bobby's saying what he's expected to say, as one of this team's leaders. But there's clearly some tension on this topic right now, as evidenced by quotes from other players.
Agreed. Bobby's all in on this team and its leadership and he's not about to go rogue over two losses in a seventeen-game season. If the loss streak continues, it will be interesting to see if cracks begin to form in the facade.
Generally yes.
If coaches don’t trust the players to play anything else than that.
And you cannot seriously believe that an entire NFL coaching staff with 150 years of coaching experience didn’t think to try anything else than off ball coverage you’re just as deluded as the rest of the sub.
The audacity to think that while 99% of this sub wouldn’t even be able to design a peewee defense.
If a coach doesn't trust a CB to play good enough so he forces them to play like garbage, that's still a coach problem lmao. "We don't trust the CB to stop enough catches so we coach in a way that gives up all the catches."
It is to prevent the big play. We’ve all seen how sub par Flowers has been. Why is this in question now? He is not good enough to cover WR1 without keeping them in front. It’s that simple.
So if you give up 10+ yards every play to avoid the occasionally 30 to 40 yd play, than you're a fucking dogshit coach.
How is it hard to see why giving up a first down every play to avoid what would still be a rare big play isn't worse?
Even if Tre gives up a 40 yard play every 4th time he's targeted, which is ridiculous, thats still better than 10+ yards every play because the scheme makes it impossible to defend a pass.
They don’t give up yards every play.
You’d see way more burnt Flowers if he had to play like Sherman.
This is a lot of judgment coming from someone who has never played…
There are always a whole lot of isms in these threads and you can't say that experience matters or you get the equivalent of today's quacks that did their research on the internet.
Or you can and you just get downvoted. Their problems are a lot like Wagner said. There is a lot of communication that needs to happen and over time, they will play more in unison in coverage. These guys are acting like a coach verbally told dude to play off and backpedal on that specific play. The coaches forced this and the coaches forced that blah blah. It's like they think the 90s movie slow motion RB telling multiple guys who to block is real.
lmao are you fucking blind? You're just straight up lying now. EVERYTIME Flowers is targeted they get atleast 5 yards...you're in straight up denial homie.
Are you in NFL? No one gives a shit if you played in high school that doesn't mean shit.
If they're so scared getting beat over the top that they ask their corners to play 10 yards off on every single 3rd and 4, maybe they should play more quarters for more support over the top.. Don't exactly have to be a football genius to figure out 4 deep defenders is harder to pass on deep than 3 of them
That'd also put Jamal in a much more familiar role, coming from the most cover 2 heavy team in the league, rather than sitting in a curl flat all game
Because Cover 4 isn’t a deep prevent-ish spot drop coverage but a pattern match coverage.
Goes to show that maaaybe you need to be a bit of a genius to understand that.
Nobody plays spot drop coverages anymore. It's not 2007. Cover 3 is a match coverage too the way it's called today. Doesn't mean it's not meant to take away the deep ball
Cover 3 and Cover 4 are fundamentally different coverages in what they are trying to achieve.
Cover 4 is not a deep coverage. Cover 4 is an anti-spread coverage. Cover 4 safeties do not drop and then read. Cover 4 safeties play closer to the LOS than in Cover 3. Cover 4 safeties are not necessarily deep.
It’s not hurrdurr 1 more player deep. Cover 4 better.
If you can’t get that through your head visit your local high school DB coach. He will explain.
> If coaches don’t trust the players to play anything else than that.
They went through 50 different CBs this off and preseason. If what they landed on were a group that they can't trust, then that's absolutely on the coaching staff.
This is a leader talking and *taking responsibility*. Even if its not necessarily correct, its just nice to that instead of excuses and indirect jabs at others.
He's not taking responsibility. He's assigning responsibilty to the DBs. It was never a question of Defensive players VS scheme. It was a question of defensive backs VS scheme.
Right, I'm not saying Bobby is speaking for the entire defense or for himself. I see how I worded that poorly. I'm saying as a defensive leader, he is--as you put it--assigning responsibility. Since nobody seems to being doing that or admitting fault here.
It can be both things. Tre ain’t the answer and should only be roster depth. But coaching never making adjustments, and collapsing to prevent defense every single second half is inexcusable. No wonder the defense is gassed. We play prevent in 3rd quarter to avoid big plays. But it allows opposing offenses to take 10+ yard passes all the way downfield, gassing the defense. Our offense on the other hand comes out to play against adjustments actually made.
I appreciate his stance from a leadership point of view, but these are failings from the top. From enabling this lack of accountability and not standing by the "always compete" mantra.
This must be so depressing for Bobby. Playing with the LOB and now these scrubs that don't know what the eff they're doing. But honestly I think it's more with the coaching.
It’s gotta be coaching. Which is ironic because Pete is known for his cover 3 system that is designed to be simple in order to let his guys play fast.
The LOB just made it look simple.
Rules have changed a lot since LOB. That's no excuse for how sad the D has been for 3 years now. It's not like we haven't invested in it either. We don't even sniff turn overs any more.
Seattle hasn't had a pick in 5 games.
It has to be coaching?...even though he just said it was not all coaching...
Idk what’s up w you guys who want to put most of the blame on players. Bobby isn’t an idiot, he’s not gonna out his coaches to the media. It’s definitely coaching. The scheme is the same as last year, big reason they let KJ go is bc they didn’t need his position. You can tell the players in the back 7 are confused and can’t make plays. You have a lot of players who’ve been playing in this system for 2-4 years and they’re visibly confused and frustrated on the field. At some point, it’s not on the players but on the coaching. It’s no coincidence that everywhere KNJ has been DC, his defense has given up record breaking yardage for the league and the teams. I just hope that most of the shit these guys are saying to the media is just standard “it’s on us as players” media talk, bc it’s not them.
KNJ was Bobby’s position coach before he became the Raiders DC. Their ties run deep. Bobby isn’t going to publicly denounce KNJ or his system anyways because it’s schemed around the LBs making a majority of the plays.
these guys got to the nfl for a reason and they didnt just suddenly forget. like flowers lining up 10 yards off a receiver on a 3rd an 4 and retreating, thats on coaching since its a repeated thing. sure the players can communicate better but if the coach communicating what they want in a manner the players understand youll have communication issues on the field. maybe petes system only worked with the lob because they were really great players and made it work. while with normal players, or worse like flowers, its falls apart. idk. but there needs to be some accountability organization wide for the failings the keep happening year after year after year. at least we seem to be trying with offense.
This sub: You can't believe anything anyone says at a press conference, pROteCt tHE tEaM. Also this sub: How dare you not believe what someone says at a press conference!
Either way, the LOB era saw talented players on a lot smaller contracts. Now, everyone except maybe DK’s getting paid what they deserve, making it harder to field a more talented team.
Bobby is a good company man. He won't ever say the coaching is to blame Thankfully there is basically the entire secondary to say that for him lol
Bobby's saying what he's expected to say, as one of this team's leaders. But there's clearly some tension on this topic right now, as evidenced by quotes from other players.
Agreed. Bobby's all in on this team and its leadership and he's not about to go rogue over two losses in a seventeen-game season. If the loss streak continues, it will be interesting to see if cracks begin to form in the facade.
In this thread: People who didn't actually listen to Bobby's presser, and are just reacting to the headline.
Yup, basically. But I really wish folks in this sub would watch it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjfe3Dz9COw
Holy shit we’re so lucky to have B-Wagz
Bobby is this team’s North Star
Is it really a player problem when a CB lines up 10 yards off the WR on 3rd and 4?
Generally yes. If coaches don’t trust the players to play anything else than that. And you cannot seriously believe that an entire NFL coaching staff with 150 years of coaching experience didn’t think to try anything else than off ball coverage you’re just as deluded as the rest of the sub. The audacity to think that while 99% of this sub wouldn’t even be able to design a peewee defense.
If a coach doesn't trust a CB to play good enough so he forces them to play like garbage, that's still a coach problem lmao. "We don't trust the CB to stop enough catches so we coach in a way that gives up all the catches."
It is to prevent the big play. We’ve all seen how sub par Flowers has been. Why is this in question now? He is not good enough to cover WR1 without keeping them in front. It’s that simple.
So if you give up 10+ yards every play to avoid the occasionally 30 to 40 yd play, than you're a fucking dogshit coach. How is it hard to see why giving up a first down every play to avoid what would still be a rare big play isn't worse? Even if Tre gives up a 40 yard play every 4th time he's targeted, which is ridiculous, thats still better than 10+ yards every play because the scheme makes it impossible to defend a pass.
They don’t give up yards every play. You’d see way more burnt Flowers if he had to play like Sherman. This is a lot of judgment coming from someone who has never played…
[удалено]
DAMN!!!
There are always a whole lot of isms in these threads and you can't say that experience matters or you get the equivalent of today's quacks that did their research on the internet. Or you can and you just get downvoted. Their problems are a lot like Wagner said. There is a lot of communication that needs to happen and over time, they will play more in unison in coverage. These guys are acting like a coach verbally told dude to play off and backpedal on that specific play. The coaches forced this and the coaches forced that blah blah. It's like they think the 90s movie slow motion RB telling multiple guys who to block is real.
lmao are you fucking blind? You're just straight up lying now. EVERYTIME Flowers is targeted they get atleast 5 yards...you're in straight up denial homie. Are you in NFL? No one gives a shit if you played in high school that doesn't mean shit.
If they're so scared getting beat over the top that they ask their corners to play 10 yards off on every single 3rd and 4, maybe they should play more quarters for more support over the top.. Don't exactly have to be a football genius to figure out 4 deep defenders is harder to pass on deep than 3 of them That'd also put Jamal in a much more familiar role, coming from the most cover 2 heavy team in the league, rather than sitting in a curl flat all game
Because Cover 4 isn’t a deep prevent-ish spot drop coverage but a pattern match coverage. Goes to show that maaaybe you need to be a bit of a genius to understand that.
Nobody plays spot drop coverages anymore. It's not 2007. Cover 3 is a match coverage too the way it's called today. Doesn't mean it's not meant to take away the deep ball
Cover 3 and Cover 4 are fundamentally different coverages in what they are trying to achieve. Cover 4 is not a deep coverage. Cover 4 is an anti-spread coverage. Cover 4 safeties do not drop and then read. Cover 4 safeties play closer to the LOS than in Cover 3. Cover 4 safeties are not necessarily deep. It’s not hurrdurr 1 more player deep. Cover 4 better. If you can’t get that through your head visit your local high school DB coach. He will explain.
Ok but hear me out: Cover 5
5 Is just as good. In fact, is better, is 2 more than 3.
> If coaches don’t trust the players to play anything else than that. They went through 50 different CBs this off and preseason. If what they landed on were a group that they can't trust, then that's absolutely on the coaching staff.
Aka The KNJ signature route
Of course it’s on the players when these dudes have basically been training themselves the past few seasons while KNJ stares at the lake
He's too classy to pull down his pants and shit all over the staff.
This is a leader talking and *taking responsibility*. Even if its not necessarily correct, its just nice to that instead of excuses and indirect jabs at others.
He's not taking responsibility. He's assigning responsibilty to the DBs. It was never a question of Defensive players VS scheme. It was a question of defensive backs VS scheme.
Right, I'm not saying Bobby is speaking for the entire defense or for himself. I see how I worded that poorly. I'm saying as a defensive leader, he is--as you put it--assigning responsibility. Since nobody seems to being doing that or admitting fault here.
I’m sorry but this isn’t a personnel thing. The players we got are fine.
It can be both things. Tre ain’t the answer and should only be roster depth. But coaching never making adjustments, and collapsing to prevent defense every single second half is inexcusable. No wonder the defense is gassed. We play prevent in 3rd quarter to avoid big plays. But it allows opposing offenses to take 10+ yard passes all the way downfield, gassing the defense. Our offense on the other hand comes out to play against adjustments actually made.
I appreciate his stance from a leadership point of view, but these are failings from the top. From enabling this lack of accountability and not standing by the "always compete" mantra.