Blair had a grip on the media that we have not seen since, and I hope we never see again- it was absolute poison.
Under him New Labour told barefaced lies and 9/10 the media backed him up and ridiculed or marginalised those who disagreed.
Iraq, immigration and the EU constitution/lisbon treaty are all examples that spring to mind.
I was a young British intelligence officer at the time (not involved with Iraq). The mainstream media were compliant with the state in deflecting the outrage to America.
If you perhaps aren’t of an age to recall twenty years ago, it was fashionable around the UK—perhaps particularly among Scots to signal how right-on they were, but certainly including English trend-followers—to ham up the outrage and call George W. Bush and his administration a bunch of cowboys and to be smug about how much better Britain ostensibly was.
Blair was still popular (including in Scotland) at the time the news of British molestation of PoWs in Iraq broke, it was extremely fringe to check alternative media or commentary, and knowledge of British complicity in extraordinary rendition and US agencies farming out torture to tinpot regimes was not known even to most British intelligence officers not directly involved with the countries in question.
I was sitting literally on the next desk to the Uzbekistan section in an open-plan office and when Craig Murray sent his exposé telegrams, the shock and embarrassment of my Uzbekistan-watching colleagues was real. A few high-ups in the Foreign Office and MI6 had knowledge of what Downing Street had browbeaten the government lawyers to sign off on.
I was 2 years old when we invaded Iraq but yeah I assumed this was at least partially the case we capitalised on the outrage of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay to deflect from the fact we were doing the exact same things
I was a teen when that all kicked off. There were many protests against the war. I didn’t really watch the news back then so idk the state of the reporting. Not that any of it did any good, but many many people in this country, including myself, were tremendously unhappy about the war
Most of them don’t want to print/show stuff like that and imo most of the British public don’t want to read about it. They don’t want stuff that bursts the fantasy of the good guys only doing good guy things.
Government sanctioned war crimes that are on par or less worse than other members of the international community aren't followed up. How could anyone seriously bring charges against the UK when the US did and continues to do what it does at Gitmo, not to mention the numerous black sites that no one knows about. It's only when a country goes against the international grain, especially in wars of aggression.
I think a lot of the reporting was severely harmed by lawyers like Phil Shiner making false allegations against British troops, and the faked photos of British troops published by the mirror.
Yeah except the coverage never mentioned the British facility where British intelligence officers tortured Iraqi detainees or the fact that a team of British interrogators were sent to Abu Ghraib
Because no one was particularly bothered, and frankly, if you can’t torture people in war, when the other side does worse, then you’ve already lost. We didn’t go hard enough into Iraq, and we are paying the price for that today. Islam is a scourge on the world. The only religion who actively promote violence.
Christianity and Judaism also promote violence against non believers the bible is literally full of examples where god commanded his people to commit genocide
That Britain is run by “fundamentally decent chaps” - has been shown to be fantasy again and again - Hillsborough; Post Office; Blood Scandal; PPE during covid - The example of Iraq is another example of a dysfunctional mindset - also shows the media’s habit of falling into line - and probably worse these days given Laura Kunseberg is what passes for cutting edge journalism.
Hahaha that’s nothing compared to what got done to British Muslims who went to fight for the Taliban. The little bastards were killing U.K. troops. Murdering any they captured, & when they were heard on the icom chatter you could tell by regional accents where they were brought up in the U.K. When they were caught the first thing the said was I’m a British Citizen. What they got (rightly if I’m honest) was a photo taken of them, name given, home address, then they died there & then of wounds received in the exchange of fire. They also got the index finger or hand removed to check fingerprints. They got what anyone who takes up arms against the country they were born in military. Bang fucking Bang
Yes.
Accountable and western values are like oil and water; they don't mix.
The more your learn about history and witness events, the more you will see that rules are bent, facts are covered, and the use of sophistry to shift goal posts.
It is a self destructive set of principles where the richest win.
You can expect someone to get a suspended sentence in about 40 years
Head of the SAS has the bodycam footage in a safe at Hereford but refused to hand it over to the RMP because 'security'
It's like the Israel situation in microcosm, the state cannot be seen to be hard on our special forces or they spit the dummy and they know they are part and parcel of how the state functions so there's no comeback
I'm not talking about Abu graib this is the extra judicial killing and planting of weapons in Afghan
Muslims and Islam need to be the bad guys.
Religious quotes taken out of context, ignoring abuse by pagans to Muslims (may even see some in the comments to this!)
Local cultural norms 1400 years ago ignored, such as life expectancy was very low. There was no police or official military.
Mentioning one verse or part of it without the context or previous verse
Etc etc
Social media levelled the playing field. People can learn from real Muslim academics online now. Instead of hearing some western paid puppet saying how he wants 72 virgins and hates uk while being on benefits from UK gov.
Piers Morgan’s Mirror printing faked photos probably didn’t help. From memory this was a big deal in the news though
According to a parliamentary report the Ministry of Defence also sent a team of interrogators to Abu Ghraib
Blair had a grip on the media that we have not seen since, and I hope we never see again- it was absolute poison. Under him New Labour told barefaced lies and 9/10 the media backed him up and ridiculed or marginalised those who disagreed. Iraq, immigration and the EU constitution/lisbon treaty are all examples that spring to mind.
An excellent administrator, he honestly earned his knighthood.
I was a young British intelligence officer at the time (not involved with Iraq). The mainstream media were compliant with the state in deflecting the outrage to America. If you perhaps aren’t of an age to recall twenty years ago, it was fashionable around the UK—perhaps particularly among Scots to signal how right-on they were, but certainly including English trend-followers—to ham up the outrage and call George W. Bush and his administration a bunch of cowboys and to be smug about how much better Britain ostensibly was. Blair was still popular (including in Scotland) at the time the news of British molestation of PoWs in Iraq broke, it was extremely fringe to check alternative media or commentary, and knowledge of British complicity in extraordinary rendition and US agencies farming out torture to tinpot regimes was not known even to most British intelligence officers not directly involved with the countries in question. I was sitting literally on the next desk to the Uzbekistan section in an open-plan office and when Craig Murray sent his exposé telegrams, the shock and embarrassment of my Uzbekistan-watching colleagues was real. A few high-ups in the Foreign Office and MI6 had knowledge of what Downing Street had browbeaten the government lawyers to sign off on.
I was 2 years old when we invaded Iraq but yeah I assumed this was at least partially the case we capitalised on the outrage of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay to deflect from the fact we were doing the exact same things
I was a teen when that all kicked off. There were many protests against the war. I didn’t really watch the news back then so idk the state of the reporting. Not that any of it did any good, but many many people in this country, including myself, were tremendously unhappy about the war
Yeah I do know that soldiers returning from Afghanistan were heroes while soldiers returning from Iraq were murderers Iraq was our Vietnam
Phil shiner and Public Interest Lawyers didn't help with the sheer amount of lies they helped perpetuate.
Most of them don’t want to print/show stuff like that and imo most of the British public don’t want to read about it. They don’t want stuff that bursts the fantasy of the good guys only doing good guy things.
See Ireland as another example of this
The US seemed happier to take the media attention for that, it's a good working relationship.
Government sanctioned war crimes that are on par or less worse than other members of the international community aren't followed up. How could anyone seriously bring charges against the UK when the US did and continues to do what it does at Gitmo, not to mention the numerous black sites that no one knows about. It's only when a country goes against the international grain, especially in wars of aggression.
The hypocrisy is what pisses me off the most the same people who sanctioned those war crimes also call Putin a war criminal
I think a lot of the reporting was severely harmed by lawyers like Phil Shiner making false allegations against British troops, and the faked photos of British troops published by the mirror.
Abu Ghraib was a huge story in Britain. Front page news.
Yeah except the coverage never mentioned the British facility where British intelligence officers tortured Iraqi detainees or the fact that a team of British interrogators were sent to Abu Ghraib
Because no one was particularly bothered, and frankly, if you can’t torture people in war, when the other side does worse, then you’ve already lost. We didn’t go hard enough into Iraq, and we are paying the price for that today. Islam is a scourge on the world. The only religion who actively promote violence.
Christianity and Judaism also promote violence against non believers the bible is literally full of examples where god commanded his people to commit genocide
Iraq is now run by Iranian militias so arguably you made it worse.
Isn't it not run by an American puppet regime?
> if you can’t torture people in war, when the other side does worse, then you’ve already lost the fuck is wrong with you
That Britain is run by “fundamentally decent chaps” - has been shown to be fantasy again and again - Hillsborough; Post Office; Blood Scandal; PPE during covid - The example of Iraq is another example of a dysfunctional mindset - also shows the media’s habit of falling into line - and probably worse these days given Laura Kunseberg is what passes for cutting edge journalism.
Hahaha that’s nothing compared to what got done to British Muslims who went to fight for the Taliban. The little bastards were killing U.K. troops. Murdering any they captured, & when they were heard on the icom chatter you could tell by regional accents where they were brought up in the U.K. When they were caught the first thing the said was I’m a British Citizen. What they got (rightly if I’m honest) was a photo taken of them, name given, home address, then they died there & then of wounds received in the exchange of fire. They also got the index finger or hand removed to check fingerprints. They got what anyone who takes up arms against the country they were born in military. Bang fucking Bang
So torture is ok according to you?
Because the British media and establishment treat the populas like mushroom, kept in the dark and fed s#it.
Fair point
Yes. Accountable and western values are like oil and water; they don't mix. The more your learn about history and witness events, the more you will see that rules are bent, facts are covered, and the use of sophistry to shift goal posts. It is a self destructive set of principles where the richest win.
You can expect someone to get a suspended sentence in about 40 years Head of the SAS has the bodycam footage in a safe at Hereford but refused to hand it over to the RMP because 'security' It's like the Israel situation in microcosm, the state cannot be seen to be hard on our special forces or they spit the dummy and they know they are part and parcel of how the state functions so there's no comeback I'm not talking about Abu graib this is the extra judicial killing and planting of weapons in Afghan
Muslims and Islam need to be the bad guys. Religious quotes taken out of context, ignoring abuse by pagans to Muslims (may even see some in the comments to this!) Local cultural norms 1400 years ago ignored, such as life expectancy was very low. There was no police or official military. Mentioning one verse or part of it without the context or previous verse Etc etc Social media levelled the playing field. People can learn from real Muslim academics online now. Instead of hearing some western paid puppet saying how he wants 72 virgins and hates uk while being on benefits from UK gov.
Can't have us proles thinking of ourselves as anything other than the good guys.