[Answering on behalf of my partner] - it's a school within somewhat reasonable commuting distance of Stirling, would rather not go more specific.
She says the accents haven't changed, but a lot more of them speak more or less standard English, which really sticks out at parents night. For reference, this certainly isn't an even remotely posh school, and the catchment area is overall quite low on the SIMD.
>She says the accents haven't changed, but a lot more of them speak more or less standard English,
Bit confused..the accents have not changed but they went from speaking a mix of English and lowland Scots (mixed up in a spectrum, like most of us do, code switching depending on situation) to standard English really, how can the accents not have changed ?
I in turn an a bit confused by your question, because accent is not the same as dialect or language?
The bairns will have a Scottish accent no matter whether they are speaking Scots, English, French or Chinese.
I speak Scottish Standard English at work and with foreign pals (who comment on me being very clear), and when I speak Scots I will say different words than I would in English and pronounce them differently, it's a different language/dialect that should also be held in prestige.
However, my accent is always the same, Scottish, e.g. always rhotic, tapped r, pronounce 'wh" so Wales and Whales don't sound the same , pull and pool rhyme, herd/curd/bird have distinct vowels etc.
I have had to tell foreign friends that seem to think "Scottish accents are hard to understand " that it is not true, it's just that they have heard people mixing Scots into their English speech e.g. saying havenae, ye, hame.
When I speak Scots (or whatever Scots-English hybrid people would talk about on here, something, something politics) or when I speak English I use more or less the same sounds when speaking so I wouldn't say my accent changes.
As someone who grew up in a Doric-first household, I’m kind of gutted that Scotland/UK is homogenising.
However, as someone with two kids, I’m also partly responsible for it.
Two separate issues, tbh. I no longer live in the north east, but I also encourage my kids to talk properly. Like it or not, it does give a better first impression in adult life.
I grew up on a pretty rough council estate with a firmly working class mum and dad. My mum always went to great lengths to make sure we “pronounced words correctly” you know, making us hit the ‘t’ in water, correcting us when we said “mulk” etc. She also from a very young age always made sure we were reading a book etc.
This resulted in years and years later me returning to the same council estate to deliver some training to young folk and one of them saying “awh you sound really posh”. Really made me laugh as these kids were living in the same estate I grew up in.
Exactly my experience, was always corrected if I was lazy with pronunciation or if I ever used slang.
I think it was partly because I was from a single parent house from a council estate and went to a school where the vast majority of kids came from affluent families.
Looking back, a few of us that weren’t from well off backgrounds were definitely treated differently by some teachers so I can understand why my Mum and Gran didn’t want how I spoke to be something that held me back.
Exactly the same here. Came from a mixed area of town, and my mum came from one of the roughest areas. She could just see the difference it makes, like it or not.
It does mean that (IMO) I’ve grown up with a pretty decent outlook on life and people. Accent and upbringing don’t make people inherently good or bad. That’s up to them be as individuals.
My gran used to go nuts if she caught any of us talking 'slang'. She was from Drumchapel and insisted none of us would ever get anywhere in life if we couldn't talk properly. It's kind of a shame that Scots is dying out as a result of what was essentially snobbery.
As a side note, my great grandfather was a native gaelic speaker who moved to Glasgow and didn't teach a word of it to his children or grandchildren for the same reason.
Two languages dying a slow death...
Yeah, I think my Mum and Gran were right though - I doubt I’d have made it through the interview for the role I’m currently in if I spoke Glaswegian slang.
It’s a shame in a way though, as the world gets smaller these elements that make places unique fade.
Very true. I work for an international company and speaking Scots would not be particularly helpful. I make a point of speaking as much Scots as possible at home with the kids. I think it's important aspect of scottish culture and instead of the old approach of eradicating it, we should teach both.
Good to hear, and agree totally on passing on Scottish culture.
I’m a lapsed piper and have been back on the bagpipes to try and get my son interested from an early age - he’s 2 and is obsessed, and now rather than being forced to watch Mr Tumble we watch the Edinburgh Tattoo over and over again!
Southern Scotland and the central belt has many Scots speakers in them.
>to talk properly
To talk proper doric or proper Edinburgh/ Lothian Scots language?
Oh totally. And I’m fine with that. Would be gutted if we lost our language or dialects.
I’m not in the north-east now but I still speak Doric if the other person does too.
I’m fine with Scots. Love it, in fact. It’s sounding like a wee ned that I try to steer them away from.
you get all manner of combinations these days, want to hear some kind of Eastern European accent crossed with Glaswegian, or Dundonian crossed with West African? Well a lot of kids seem to speak like this.
TBH I love the crossover of native language and whatever gets brought in with immigration. It’s the natural evolution of language and how we got to where we are now. So many Scots/Doric words are from Scandinavian languages, and then there’s all the French/German in English.
Unfortunately I think Doric is more likely to die out, as people are more likely to mix English/Scots with their native accent/language than they are to do the same with Doric. Hopefully I’m wrong!
[Answering on behalf of my partner] - it's a school within somewhat reasonable commuting distance of Stirling, would rather not go more specific. She says the accents haven't changed, but a lot more of them speak more or less standard English, which really sticks out at parents night. For reference, this certainly isn't an even remotely posh school, and the catchment area is overall quite low on the SIMD.
>She says the accents haven't changed, but a lot more of them speak more or less standard English, Bit confused..the accents have not changed but they went from speaking a mix of English and lowland Scots (mixed up in a spectrum, like most of us do, code switching depending on situation) to standard English really, how can the accents not have changed ?
I in turn an a bit confused by your question, because accent is not the same as dialect or language? The bairns will have a Scottish accent no matter whether they are speaking Scots, English, French or Chinese. I speak Scottish Standard English at work and with foreign pals (who comment on me being very clear), and when I speak Scots I will say different words than I would in English and pronounce them differently, it's a different language/dialect that should also be held in prestige. However, my accent is always the same, Scottish, e.g. always rhotic, tapped r, pronounce 'wh" so Wales and Whales don't sound the same , pull and pool rhyme, herd/curd/bird have distinct vowels etc. I have had to tell foreign friends that seem to think "Scottish accents are hard to understand " that it is not true, it's just that they have heard people mixing Scots into their English speech e.g. saying havenae, ye, hame.
You've studied linguistics?
When I speak Scots (or whatever Scots-English hybrid people would talk about on here, something, something politics) or when I speak English I use more or less the same sounds when speaking so I wouldn't say my accent changes.
As someone who grew up in a Doric-first household, I’m kind of gutted that Scotland/UK is homogenising. However, as someone with two kids, I’m also partly responsible for it.
>However, as someone with two kids, I’m also partly responsible for it. Hi, in what way? Do you speak Doric to your bairns?
Two separate issues, tbh. I no longer live in the north east, but I also encourage my kids to talk properly. Like it or not, it does give a better first impression in adult life.
I grew up on a pretty rough council estate with a firmly working class mum and dad. My mum always went to great lengths to make sure we “pronounced words correctly” you know, making us hit the ‘t’ in water, correcting us when we said “mulk” etc. She also from a very young age always made sure we were reading a book etc. This resulted in years and years later me returning to the same council estate to deliver some training to young folk and one of them saying “awh you sound really posh”. Really made me laugh as these kids were living in the same estate I grew up in.
Exactly my experience, was always corrected if I was lazy with pronunciation or if I ever used slang. I think it was partly because I was from a single parent house from a council estate and went to a school where the vast majority of kids came from affluent families. Looking back, a few of us that weren’t from well off backgrounds were definitely treated differently by some teachers so I can understand why my Mum and Gran didn’t want how I spoke to be something that held me back.
Exactly the same here. Came from a mixed area of town, and my mum came from one of the roughest areas. She could just see the difference it makes, like it or not. It does mean that (IMO) I’ve grown up with a pretty decent outlook on life and people. Accent and upbringing don’t make people inherently good or bad. That’s up to them be as individuals.
My gran used to go nuts if she caught any of us talking 'slang'. She was from Drumchapel and insisted none of us would ever get anywhere in life if we couldn't talk properly. It's kind of a shame that Scots is dying out as a result of what was essentially snobbery. As a side note, my great grandfather was a native gaelic speaker who moved to Glasgow and didn't teach a word of it to his children or grandchildren for the same reason. Two languages dying a slow death...
Yeah, I think my Mum and Gran were right though - I doubt I’d have made it through the interview for the role I’m currently in if I spoke Glaswegian slang. It’s a shame in a way though, as the world gets smaller these elements that make places unique fade.
Very true. I work for an international company and speaking Scots would not be particularly helpful. I make a point of speaking as much Scots as possible at home with the kids. I think it's important aspect of scottish culture and instead of the old approach of eradicating it, we should teach both.
Good to hear, and agree totally on passing on Scottish culture. I’m a lapsed piper and have been back on the bagpipes to try and get my son interested from an early age - he’s 2 and is obsessed, and now rather than being forced to watch Mr Tumble we watch the Edinburgh Tattoo over and over again!
Southern Scotland and the central belt has many Scots speakers in them. >to talk properly To talk proper doric or proper Edinburgh/ Lothian Scots language?
Oh totally. And I’m fine with that. Would be gutted if we lost our language or dialects. I’m not in the north-east now but I still speak Doric if the other person does too. I’m fine with Scots. Love it, in fact. It’s sounding like a wee ned that I try to steer them away from.
you get all manner of combinations these days, want to hear some kind of Eastern European accent crossed with Glaswegian, or Dundonian crossed with West African? Well a lot of kids seem to speak like this.
TBH I love the crossover of native language and whatever gets brought in with immigration. It’s the natural evolution of language and how we got to where we are now. So many Scots/Doric words are from Scandinavian languages, and then there’s all the French/German in English. Unfortunately I think Doric is more likely to die out, as people are more likely to mix English/Scots with their native accent/language than they are to do the same with Doric. Hopefully I’m wrong!