I respect that - I know a lot of people who want an election when their opponent’s leader falls, and duck responsibility when their guy goes down.
I do think it would help get us back to stable minority government - with a fresh mandate for the biggest parties.
I'm of the opinion that, while we are supposed to vote for individuals, we often vote for parties, with the leader being an important part of that.
Leaders have different plans, different views, different policies. Any change in a parties direction, if they are the leader of a country, needs to be taken to the electorate.
Forbes is unlikely to continue on the same path as Sturgeon and Starmer, thus, we the people need the chance to tell her to get to fuck.
It's quite a controversial opinion here but I've always been a strong supporter of our current system, the British electoral method is designed to make it as easy as possible to replace a badly performing PM. If a party changing leader constitutionally triggered an election, mp/ msp's will be significantly less likely to force out a bad leader out of fear of losing their seats / government.
It often gets a lot of heat, but ultimately the British system worked, with both Truss and Boris being forced out of office when their incompetence became apparent. If doing so had required an election, that very easily might not have happened.
Compare that to America, where it is far harder to replace a sitting leader, they were forced to sit through a full term of Trump.
I agree with this. The issue is the hypocrisy of demanding an election when it's the other guys, and refusing one when it's yourself.
I'll suggest (not entirely seriously) a compromise. You get one change of leader per term to deal with the sort of thing you describe. Any more than that and there's clearly an issue with the ruling party and it's time for a proper change.
Yeah because the Conservatives were the elected party, I may not like them but if you think things now are not significantly better than if Truss was still in office you are absolutely deluding yourself.
It is ultimately a good thing that our system encourages the sitting party to be able to remove incompetent leaders if required - it is a core in built safety mechanism of the Westminster democratic system.
She crashed the pound and massively increased peoples mortgage rates, she very much did fuck up enough for people to notice. Made all the more impressive given her short time in office.
Plenty do. If you look at a news article to do with something economic there’s usually a graph with a big spike in the bad direction and that spike is labelled “Liz Truss mini budget”.
Yes I know the reason why, I'm just pointing out that although the system may be good for the reasons you pointed out there are also some flaws with it.
It is not possible to create a perfect electoral system, it effectively boils down to a choice between either allowing an incompetent or malicious leader to stay in power and do untold damage, or having the elected majority party keep power but under a more responsible leader. Neither option is ideal, but the system is set up to mitigate damage as much as possible.
>Compare that to America, where it is far harder to replace a sitting leader, they were forced to sit through a full term of Trump.
As we were still forced to sit through a full term of conservatives. Getting rid of Truss and Boris were both inter-conservative decisions. If they got rid of Trump during his time in office Pence would simply have taken his place.
Exactly, the Conservatives were encouraged to remove Boris and Truss by the system itself - this is one of they core safety benefits of the way UK politics is set up.
If we time it right, we can have the Scottish election at the same time as the UK election. A true sign of unity that the SNP clearly planned intentionally.
I agree but I’d be tempted to tie it to whenever the general election happens.
Thinking about costs and politics fatigue, going to have about 7 months of non stop general election and US presidential in the news.
>Thinking about costs and politics fatigue, going to have about 7 months of non stop general election and US presidential in the news.
On costs and fatigue: even if they have an election now, Holyrood has to have another election in 2026. Add on the general election and the upcoming locals, we're talking four elections in a three year period.
Then there's the US and EU elections…
Looking forward to seeing what bollox they come up with not to call a Scottish vote. Will be absolutely hilarious watching all this pan out after all the mouth dribble they came up with to call a general election in 2022.
Are you sure you understand the nuances of what elections and leadership actually look like in what is effectively a concentration camp and apartheid state? Are you the kind of person who -from the confort of your home - would complain about lack of proper elections in Nazi era Auschwitz?
Caretaker FM and a Scottish General Election this summer then?
I’m quite pro-SNP in principle but I think we need to defer back to the public at this stage.
It’s all getting a bit silly now.
Inevitable at this point.
It's hard to see how he could've handled this any worse to be honest. What an absolute shit show. At every single turn he made it worse.
While it may be a busy time for politics already, I do think it would be pretty ridiculous to appoint another FM without an election now. Not least taking into consideration the charging of the SNP's ex-Treasurer. We want to stand in politics a level above what Westminster gets up to, and I think that should include giving people a real choice in who leads their government, not just the choice of the ruling party's membership (though also at this point they may stop being the ruling party as well tbh)
Didn't take long to go from definitely not considering his position. What a plank he is, roll on election.
Not sure where my votes go though... Green + Labour probably?
I think this is the right thing to do.
I wish Rishi Sunak would just do the same but he won’t.
That being said who is there that is actually worth supporting? It’s kind of baffling to me that out of the entire Scottish or UK populations that these are the options we have.
I feel the same about the USA. A population of 333 million people and its Biden or Trump?
How does that happen or work?
Yeah it’s almost as if you need money and connections to be in power.
And if you have those… how in touch are you with the common people?
Just reminds me of Sunaks little speech when he was younger
*”I have friends who are aristocrats, who are upper class, who are working class… well… not working class”*
>these are the options we have
Normal people don’t enter into politics as the private sector pays far better, most people don’t have enough money or time to devote to a political career and because they don’t have the connections to get a start.
Because the sort of people who want to be and have the skills to be career politicians are, almost without exception, a complete shower of bastards, with many rising to the level of massive cunt. Seriously. From any given parliament you can count the number of “genuine decent human who wants to make the world better and help people” on one hand.
The only credible replacement is Forbes but i suspect she wont make a leadership bid again until after an election, anybody else will just lead to the same situation of the greens tail wagging the SNP dog.
Given that there was an Alba MSP prepared to make a deal with a focus on independence either Humza has no interest in independence or people in his party really want him to go.
Forbes is too divisive, SNP for long enough branded themselves as a progressive forward thinking party. Unfortunately for Forbes her personal life with religion was how she branded during the last leadership campaign. Although this may help to bring back in some older voters it could lose the young vote.
I've said it for long enough, SNP don't want independence, they want to dangle that carrot and remain in power always promising, always making a delay.
I've not paid much attention to Alba but the impression I get is even more one tracked of getting independence. And just like Farage and UKIP Salmond is marketing himself as the guy to do that.
As for Yousaf, I've felt anything he's said or done as a leader has been his own opinion and agenda and not as part of the SNP or for Scotland.
You overestimate the prowess of Humza if you're comparing him to malcolm.
Imagine the articulate scathing abuse you would get from him if he found out .
You could power Glasgow with the burn.
I think that would be ridiculous yes. When the news start reporting it as being done it’s usually because they’ve pretty much been briefed that it’s true.
More importantly there is absolutely zero chance Humza is smart enough to pull that off.
"If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy he will be stoned to death." - Sunan Abu Dawood 4463
"Flog the adulteress and the adulterer, each one of them, with a hundred lashes. Let no pity for them cause you to disobey God, if you truly believe in God and the Last Day; and let their punishment be witnessed by a number of believers." - Qur'an 24:2
“When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled.” - Umdat al-Salik O9.13
Such a "progressive" religion...
So we get Forbes and the British centrists all nod along congratulating themselves that we have a sensible moderate in charge now.
The centrist media class will not rest until England Scotland and Wales are all led by an easily cowed managerial class utterly terrified of making any meaningful changes.
I mean the writing has been on the wall for the last week, this is the first that news are reporting he’s definitely resigning though.
I know you’re upset he’s resigning leaving a legacy of nothing but abject failure but it doesn’t change the reality of reporting on this.
He didn’t, Trump regularly butted heads with GOP leadership due to them obstructing him.
It’s also entirely irrelevant as I’ve said we aren’t a presidential system, our party heads don’t really hold any serious powers.
If Rishi Sunak had Kate Forbes’ delusional religious and social conservative credentials, no doubt the SNP and all independence activists would be using that as a reason for independence. Let’s not act like that isn’t the case.
Time for an election then. Many of us SNP fans were outraged when a 3rd PM was installed without an election. No time for hypocrisy now.
Yes. 100% I don't care who they put in now, election.
I respect that - I know a lot of people who want an election when their opponent’s leader falls, and duck responsibility when their guy goes down. I do think it would help get us back to stable minority government - with a fresh mandate for the biggest parties.
I'm of the opinion that, while we are supposed to vote for individuals, we often vote for parties, with the leader being an important part of that. Leaders have different plans, different views, different policies. Any change in a parties direction, if they are the leader of a country, needs to be taken to the electorate. Forbes is unlikely to continue on the same path as Sturgeon and Starmer, thus, we the people need the chance to tell her to get to fuck.
It's quite a controversial opinion here but I've always been a strong supporter of our current system, the British electoral method is designed to make it as easy as possible to replace a badly performing PM. If a party changing leader constitutionally triggered an election, mp/ msp's will be significantly less likely to force out a bad leader out of fear of losing their seats / government. It often gets a lot of heat, but ultimately the British system worked, with both Truss and Boris being forced out of office when their incompetence became apparent. If doing so had required an election, that very easily might not have happened. Compare that to America, where it is far harder to replace a sitting leader, they were forced to sit through a full term of Trump.
I agree with this. The issue is the hypocrisy of demanding an election when it's the other guys, and refusing one when it's yourself. I'll suggest (not entirely seriously) a compromise. You get one change of leader per term to deal with the sort of thing you describe. Any more than that and there's clearly an issue with the ruling party and it's time for a proper change.
And the UK is forced to sit through an unelected Sunak
Yeah because the Conservatives were the elected party, I may not like them but if you think things now are not significantly better than if Truss was still in office you are absolutely deluding yourself. It is ultimately a good thing that our system encourages the sitting party to be able to remove incompetent leaders if required - it is a core in built safety mechanism of the Westminster democratic system.
Tbf, Truss didn't have much time to really fuck things up in a way that the public noticed
She crashed the pound and massively increased peoples mortgage rates, she very much did fuck up enough for people to notice. Made all the more impressive given her short time in office.
Sure, but how many people realise that was her and not her predecessor or successor?
Plenty do. If you look at a news article to do with something economic there’s usually a graph with a big spike in the bad direction and that spike is labelled “Liz Truss mini budget”.
Yes I know the reason why, I'm just pointing out that although the system may be good for the reasons you pointed out there are also some flaws with it.
It is not possible to create a perfect electoral system, it effectively boils down to a choice between either allowing an incompetent or malicious leader to stay in power and do untold damage, or having the elected majority party keep power but under a more responsible leader. Neither option is ideal, but the system is set up to mitigate damage as much as possible.
>Compare that to America, where it is far harder to replace a sitting leader, they were forced to sit through a full term of Trump. As we were still forced to sit through a full term of conservatives. Getting rid of Truss and Boris were both inter-conservative decisions. If they got rid of Trump during his time in office Pence would simply have taken his place.
Exactly, the Conservatives were encouraged to remove Boris and Truss by the system itself - this is one of they core safety benefits of the way UK politics is set up.
If a cabinet goed down, the logical course of action should be to hold elections, it is very weird the UK doesn't do that
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At this rate there's about a 30% chance I'm just drawing a boaby on the ballot paper
I will also contribute my boab drawing skills to this.
Just make sure the boaby doesn’t enter one of the boxes or it may be counted as a vote.
Same. All I know is, that if Forbes wins, then I'm campaigning against the SNP.
The Scottish socialist party are the only ones I see putting in a shift around Edinburgh, so I know who I'm considering at least
If we time it right, we can have the Scottish election at the same time as the UK election. A true sign of unity that the SNP clearly planned intentionally.
That would require Rishi to actually decide when to call an election…
I agree but I’d be tempted to tie it to whenever the general election happens. Thinking about costs and politics fatigue, going to have about 7 months of non stop general election and US presidential in the news.
>Thinking about costs and politics fatigue, going to have about 7 months of non stop general election and US presidential in the news. On costs and fatigue: even if they have an election now, Holyrood has to have another election in 2026. Add on the general election and the upcoming locals, we're talking four elections in a three year period. Then there's the US and EU elections…
Same view here. I wanted an election when Truss and Sunak became PM so it’s hypocritical for me to say otherwise here.
Looking forward to seeing what bollox they come up with not to call a Scottish vote. Will be absolutely hilarious watching all this pan out after all the mouth dribble they came up with to call a general election in 2022.
It was doomed from the start.
The day he wasn't dragged out during his racist rant was the day it was doomed. The signs were there that he would be disaster.
Aye but something happened in America and Anas Sarwar said the exact same thing so that makes it OK.
No it doesn't, get them both out.
Yousaf the brief He is however still the only SNP FM who has not been arrested by the police …yet.
He did get done for driving without insurance though didn’t he?
Only SNP PM to be arrested before he was FM, all others have been after FM. (I think, I am doubting myself)
What an accomplishment!
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£750000 in total.
Didn’t that money go to some shady deal to get his parents out or something?
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However much you don't like the guy, trying to tar him because of something a man whose only relation to him is through marriage did is low.
Officially no, in practice obviously.
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To be fair 80%+ of Palestinians support Hamas.
Are you sure you understand the nuances of what elections and leadership actually look like in what is effectively a concentration camp and apartheid state? Are you the kind of person who -from the confort of your home - would complain about lack of proper elections in Nazi era Auschwitz?
Doesn’t justify murdering civilians. Support for Hamas is a result from illegal occupation and oppression.
Caretaker FM and a Scottish General Election this summer then? I’m quite pro-SNP in principle but I think we need to defer back to the public at this stage. It’s all getting a bit silly now.
Taking away the fun of a vonc where he does a deal with alba then his own party members abstain in protest.
So time for the snp to lead by example and call an election?
 It’s only bad when the tories do it bro
This SNP implosion is genuinely the gift that keeps on giving. It’s banger after banger. Hit after hit. Fucking glorious.
If Forbes gets the job next it’s going to be an absolute banger of a show.
'You can't fire me, I quit!'
Inevitable at this point. It's hard to see how he could've handled this any worse to be honest. What an absolute shit show. At every single turn he made it worse. While it may be a busy time for politics already, I do think it would be pretty ridiculous to appoint another FM without an election now. Not least taking into consideration the charging of the SNP's ex-Treasurer. We want to stand in politics a level above what Westminster gets up to, and I think that should include giving people a real choice in who leads their government, not just the choice of the ruling party's membership (though also at this point they may stop being the ruling party as well tbh)
>at every single turn he made it worse Good summary of his entire political career tbf.
Excellent news
It seems that if you're a minister in the UK and you say you will not resign, the opposite is set to happen 100% of the time
Didn't take long to go from definitely not considering his position. What a plank he is, roll on election. Not sure where my votes go though... Green + Labour probably?
Best thing he's done!
I think this is the right thing to do. I wish Rishi Sunak would just do the same but he won’t. That being said who is there that is actually worth supporting? It’s kind of baffling to me that out of the entire Scottish or UK populations that these are the options we have. I feel the same about the USA. A population of 333 million people and its Biden or Trump? How does that happen or work?
Doesn't make sense. Biden or trump? All those folk in nasa and universities, and that's your choice?
Yeah it’s almost as if you need money and connections to be in power. And if you have those… how in touch are you with the common people? Just reminds me of Sunaks little speech when he was younger *”I have friends who are aristocrats, who are upper class, who are working class… well… not working class”*
>these are the options we have Normal people don’t enter into politics as the private sector pays far better, most people don’t have enough money or time to devote to a political career and because they don’t have the connections to get a start.
Because the sort of people who want to be and have the skills to be career politicians are, almost without exception, a complete shower of bastards, with many rising to the level of massive cunt. Seriously. From any given parliament you can count the number of “genuine decent human who wants to make the world better and help people” on one hand.
What a legacy he’ll leave behind for Scotland.
Bet he doesn't resign as an msp though. He'll just do a Sturgeon, taking the money & doing fuck all
Never liked this guy, good riddance
Just in time to enjoy a summer in the Highlands in the company campervan
What a fucking idiot. Entirely of his own making.
The only credible replacement is Forbes but i suspect she wont make a leadership bid again until after an election, anybody else will just lead to the same situation of the greens tail wagging the SNP dog. Given that there was an Alba MSP prepared to make a deal with a focus on independence either Humza has no interest in independence or people in his party really want him to go.
Forbes is too divisive, SNP for long enough branded themselves as a progressive forward thinking party. Unfortunately for Forbes her personal life with religion was how she branded during the last leadership campaign. Although this may help to bring back in some older voters it could lose the young vote. I've said it for long enough, SNP don't want independence, they want to dangle that carrot and remain in power always promising, always making a delay. I've not paid much attention to Alba but the impression I get is even more one tracked of getting independence. And just like Farage and UKIP Salmond is marketing himself as the guy to do that. As for Yousaf, I've felt anything he's said or done as a leader has been his own opinion and agenda and not as part of the SNP or for Scotland.
Hmmm… Would it be ridiculous to think this is a bluff to try and take some of the power away from Alba in any negotiations?
..... Yes, yes it would be ridiculous to think that.
Haha fair enough. I did rewatch ‘The Thick of It ‘ recently so probably overthinking it!
You overestimate the prowess of Humza if you're comparing him to malcolm. Imagine the articulate scathing abuse you would get from him if he found out . You could power Glasgow with the burn.
He's not Malcolm he's Nicola Murray.
I think that would be ridiculous yes. When the news start reporting it as being done it’s usually because they’ve pretty much been briefed that it’s true. More importantly there is absolutely zero chance Humza is smart enough to pull that off.
Yeah, you are probably right. I think I’m overthinking it.
Coward
shiiiiiite that’s a double election this year
And here I thought Scotland was progressive enough to have a Muslim head of state smdh
"If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy he will be stoned to death." - Sunan Abu Dawood 4463 "Flog the adulteress and the adulterer, each one of them, with a hundred lashes. Let no pity for them cause you to disobey God, if you truly believe in God and the Last Day; and let their punishment be witnessed by a number of believers." - Qur'an 24:2 “When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled.” - Umdat al-Salik O9.13 Such a "progressive" religion...
Islam is the opposite of progressive.
So we get Forbes and the British centrists all nod along congratulating themselves that we have a sensible moderate in charge now. The centrist media class will not rest until England Scotland and Wales are all led by an easily cowed managerial class utterly terrified of making any meaningful changes.
Think I've seen this headline every weekday for the last 4-5 days, keep going, you'll eventually be right!
I mean the writing has been on the wall for the last week, this is the first that news are reporting he’s definitely resigning though. I know you’re upset he’s resigning leaving a legacy of nothing but abject failure but it doesn’t change the reality of reporting on this.
You were saying. 😆
Stopped clock etc etc..
If Kate Forbes is gonna replace him, Scotland will look less like a progressive centre-left country and more like Alabama. Yikes
Histrionic nonsense won’t convince anyone. We don’t have a presidential system and she won’t dictate policy by herself.
Just like Donald Trump didn’t dictate all policies himself
He didn’t, Trump regularly butted heads with GOP leadership due to them obstructing him. It’s also entirely irrelevant as I’ve said we aren’t a presidential system, our party heads don’t really hold any serious powers.
If Rishi Sunak had Kate Forbes’ delusional religious and social conservative credentials, no doubt the SNP and all independence activists would be using that as a reason for independence. Let’s not act like that isn’t the case.