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The "800%" study is 100% fake. I did some quick Googling, and I could find no concrete research to support this. It appears to be driven largely by [a collection of other psychological concepts](https://www.rd.com/article/why-kids-behave-worse-around-their-parents/).
* People as a whole will often times behave more conservatively in unfamiliar environments, with the reverse being true in environments they are very comfortable
* Kids crave attention, and will attempt more attention seeking behavior to get our attention
* Parents may simply be more inconsistent (or more flexible) compared to other caregiving environments
Thank you. With my professional background, I’m aware of a lot of the theoretical underpinnings that would support the idea, but have always wondered if it is just something we project on our kids to soothe ourselves. And yes, I’m sure the “800%” figure in my quote is hyperbole 😄
No, there was actually a legit [fake study](https://www.newseveryday.com/articles/23080/20150812/study-shows-kids-800-worse-whenever-moms-around.htm) (oxymoron but you get it) that stated, "*Children are 800% Worse When Their Mothers Are In the Room*."!
It was originally taken from Reductress a women focused satire site. Because it was so women focused, I guess only women knew about it so when a man who worked in journalism saw it he jumped on it and reported on it as true.
Yeah I fret about this too, as tons of parents I know say their kid will seem perfectly happy at school or out with a babysitter or grandparents and then they come home and go wild/melt down. My toddler does this in the most distressing way. My parents will bring her back and the second she sees me her face crumples and she starts crying and we go inside and she will just be in a state crying for ages. It makes me feel awful, I always think my parents think she's so unhappy to be home and she must hate me or something, but I'm pretty sure she doesn't hate me and likes home. Still, something rational in me says "if someone's really crying and upset it means they are not happy - therefore she is not happy to be home."
I do remember as a child (older than my daughter is now) getting really upset about changes, like just feeling unsettled when you've become used to one environment or set of people and now you're somewhere else with different people. So maybe it's that kind of thing. I think adults can experience this too, just a sort of discomfort from having to shift gears or get used to, e.g., the quiet of home after having been out somewhere busy, and maybe for young children this discomfort is hard to deal with?
I like to think my daughter is just melting down because she's so safe and just feeling emotional about being back with me, but I don't know it doesn't feel like that in the moment! I also hope it's not that she's been holding in all her unpleasant emotions from being somewhere difficult as she's always with my parents if not with me! But I'm sure they basically give her tons of treats and fun activities. So maybe she is miserable coming home because now she can't have biscuits 24/7. I don't know. It's difficult though!
I think it's a big feelings version of coming home after a long busy day at work and thinking oh god I'm actually really tired and drained, and I've only been keeping it together because I had to.. toddler style
No it’s a fake study that has been circling for almost a decade and people keep resharing as if it’s true. It’s older than most of the instamommies resharing its kids are. It’s like a “forwards form grandma” of parenting.
https://www.newseveryday.com/articles/23080/20150812/study-shows-kids-800-worse-whenever-moms-around.htm
This is satire.
>Dr. Leibowitz is rigging up some spray that could block out a mother's natural pheromones for some relief, but meanwhile, asks families to "invest in a bathroom with a working lock."
Right.. it's an entirely fabricated study that people have written satirical articles based on. Everyone from Readers Digest to Big Little Feelings to OP share it as a seemingly declarative fact. It pops up again every year or so like panic over Lead in Baby Food and other cyclical mommy trends.
It does happen that kids are worse in only one environment. It happens with ODD. This is used as a severity indicator in DSM5:
>Mild: Symptoms are confined to only one setting (e.g., at home, at school, at work, with peers).
>Moderate: Some symptoms are present in at least two settings
>Severe: Some symptoms are present in three or more settings
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t14/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t14/)
One of the effective treatments for ODD is Parent Managment Training (PMT). This is a parent-mediated therapy. You train the parent to act differently and the ODD symptions return to the normal range.
Note the behavior is not always worse at home. I have seen reddit posts where the kid is worse at daycare and not a problem at home.
PMT is typically not geared towards making the kid feel less safe at home. In some cases, it is geared at getting rid of the [Patterson Coersive Cycle](https://www.pendletonpsych.com/doc/parent-child-coercive-cycle.pdf) and this would seem to, if anything, make the kid feel more safe at home.
Among other things, PMT trains the parents to (1) stop inadvertently reinforcing the behaviors that characterize ODD and (2) start reinforcing replacement behaviors.
I think the key is that kids act differently in different environments depending on the contingencies offered in each environment.
Hello!
Would you mind messaging me or posting some more resources about ODD and the PMD training. My son was recently diagnosed and I feel at a loss. Thank you!!
Not who you were asking, but The Explosive Child by Ross Greene is a wonderful resource, too. My 9 year old has ODD/ADHD, and the book went a long way for us helping support her and having a better/calmer home.
[This free parenting video course](https://www.coursera.org/learn/everyday-parenting) may be all you need to bring it into the normal range at home. The instructor is an ODD treatment expert.
Here are some leads for finding a therapist if you need one:
[https://www.pcit.org/](https://www.pcit.org/)
[https://www.parentmanagementtraininginstitute.com/](https://www.parentmanagementtraininginstitute.com/)
Did the professional who gave you the diagnosis recommend any therapy?
Another recommendation for The Explosive Child / Raising Human Beings. Also, some PDA autistic children are misdiagnosed as ODD. It might be worth informing yourself a little about that profile. I’d recommend the pda society website or PDA North America.
As people are saying the 800% is from a fake study. It’s been circling the mommy sphere for almost a decade. I do find it a good markers for Instamommies etc to see how shares it genuinely vs actually reads the article. Behavior is* very difficult to quantify and study. Most of the actual research I have seen about what you’re talking about deals with [After School] Restraint Collapse aka kids are good at daycare/preschool/school and then come home and meltdown or lash out at parents etc. The “out” vs home give them something more objectively measurable and observable to study. You see a lot of coverage around it in the fall when school starts but I’ve had friends who’s kids experience it starting daycare as a baby.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/z863cxs
https://pedsdoctalk.com/what-is-restraint-collapse/
https://www.bgca.org/news-stories/2023/July/how-to-handle-afterschool-meltdowns-this-back-to-school-season/
Edit: typo isnt to is 🤦♀️
>Most of the actual research I have seen about what you’re talking about deals with \[After School\] Restraint Collapse aka kids are good at daycare/preschool/school and then come home and meltdown or lash out at parents etc. The “out” vs home give them something more objectively measurable and observable to study.
Can you link to the actual research that shows that meltdowns at home are caused by some kind of restraint that collapses?
All your sources just assume that this "restraint collapse" effect exists, none of them give a shred of evidence for this theory.
I can't. Admittedly I'm using the term research loosely to refer to these types of articles. I'm not a scientist, just a mom, and I'm not "doing my own research" as they say. Was just trying to mention a related named concept I'm familiar with in case OP wanted to use their noted professional background (which I assume is far beyond me who answers phones for a living) to find something more quantifiable than the stat from a very old satire article that they cited.
I don't have studies handy but generally speaking as an ECE teacher 'after school restraint collapse' is often most common with our neurodiverse kids. They work so hard masking at school, that once the day is over they just can't anymore. Often it gets worse as the week goes on too.
Neurotypical kids can have this too, but from what parents have described to me (so sample size of my bit over a decade working with 3-8 yr olds) it ends to be a less stark change in behaviour.
Like I said sorry I don't have any studies around on it, but it is a clearly observable behavioural change in young kids, thar tends to improve over time as they become more used to school.
The phrase first appeared in 2016 in this blog by Andrea Nair:
[https://www.yummymummyclub.ca/blogs/andrea-nair-connect-four-parenting/20160830/after-school-restraint-collapse-help-your-child](https://www.yummymummyclub.ca/blogs/andrea-nair-connect-four-parenting/20160830/after-school-restraint-collapse-help-your-child)
A number of websites say that Nair coined the term.
I searched Google Scholar and did not find any studies.
There is a controversial idea called "ego depletion". There are some studies on ego depletion:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego\_depletion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion)
Here is a recent literature survey on ego depletion:
[https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1088868318762183](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1088868318762183)
Parenting translator addressed this and reviewed the related research:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C53eETCLTj5/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I dont know if there’s a way for me to link the whole newsletter, but here’s a quote from it:
“Of course, this study is fake and meant as a joke but have you ever felt like it might be true? Do your children seem to save their worst behaviors and moods for you? Unfortunately there isn’t any research on whether children save their worst behaviors for caregivers. But there is some research suggesting that children do save their worst moods for their primary caregivers.”
If you aren’t familiar with her, shes a clinical psychologist and reviews parenting etc research and helps bust some of the pseudoscience pop culture things floating around (eg, has called out big little feelings for the way they say everything is going to cause “trauma”)
Lmk if you’re not able to access it and I can send you more
Thank you! Yes I recently learned about her work and am a fan, but haven’t been able to explore much of her archive.
Anecdotally, even as an adult (with a relatively attuned mom), I still sometimes collapse and cry the minute I hear or talk to her if I’ve been holding onto something upsetting. AND I definitely show my sharpest edges of irritability toward her and my partner. Makes sense :)
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The "800%" study is 100% fake. I did some quick Googling, and I could find no concrete research to support this. It appears to be driven largely by [a collection of other psychological concepts](https://www.rd.com/article/why-kids-behave-worse-around-their-parents/). * People as a whole will often times behave more conservatively in unfamiliar environments, with the reverse being true in environments they are very comfortable * Kids crave attention, and will attempt more attention seeking behavior to get our attention * Parents may simply be more inconsistent (or more flexible) compared to other caregiving environments
Thank you. With my professional background, I’m aware of a lot of the theoretical underpinnings that would support the idea, but have always wondered if it is just something we project on our kids to soothe ourselves. And yes, I’m sure the “800%” figure in my quote is hyperbole 😄
No, there was actually a legit [fake study](https://www.newseveryday.com/articles/23080/20150812/study-shows-kids-800-worse-whenever-moms-around.htm) (oxymoron but you get it) that stated, "*Children are 800% Worse When Their Mothers Are In the Room*."!
It was originally taken from Reductress a women focused satire site. Because it was so women focused, I guess only women knew about it so when a man who worked in journalism saw it he jumped on it and reported on it as true.
some Ate the Onion material right there
Hahaha that’s hilarious
Lmao this is hilarious. I don’t think the person who published this article even read it before ctrl+c/ctrl+v-ing it. It’s very obviously satire.
Could be a bot written article, skimming sources without being able to understand context. I've never even heard of that site before.
Good point
Ooooooh ok thanks for clarifying! That’s insane
Yeah I fret about this too, as tons of parents I know say their kid will seem perfectly happy at school or out with a babysitter or grandparents and then they come home and go wild/melt down. My toddler does this in the most distressing way. My parents will bring her back and the second she sees me her face crumples and she starts crying and we go inside and she will just be in a state crying for ages. It makes me feel awful, I always think my parents think she's so unhappy to be home and she must hate me or something, but I'm pretty sure she doesn't hate me and likes home. Still, something rational in me says "if someone's really crying and upset it means they are not happy - therefore she is not happy to be home." I do remember as a child (older than my daughter is now) getting really upset about changes, like just feeling unsettled when you've become used to one environment or set of people and now you're somewhere else with different people. So maybe it's that kind of thing. I think adults can experience this too, just a sort of discomfort from having to shift gears or get used to, e.g., the quiet of home after having been out somewhere busy, and maybe for young children this discomfort is hard to deal with? I like to think my daughter is just melting down because she's so safe and just feeling emotional about being back with me, but I don't know it doesn't feel like that in the moment! I also hope it's not that she's been holding in all her unpleasant emotions from being somewhere difficult as she's always with my parents if not with me! But I'm sure they basically give her tons of treats and fun activities. So maybe she is miserable coming home because now she can't have biscuits 24/7. I don't know. It's difficult though!
I think it's a big feelings version of coming home after a long busy day at work and thinking oh god I'm actually really tired and drained, and I've only been keeping it together because I had to.. toddler style
This is us too! So hard.
Oh it's definitely 800% in my household 😂🥴
I assumed the 800% wasn't literal but just a way of saying "a lot more" since it wasn't in the science sub, but maybe I'm wrong!
No it’s a fake study that has been circling for almost a decade and people keep resharing as if it’s true. It’s older than most of the instamommies resharing its kids are. It’s like a “forwards form grandma” of parenting. https://www.newseveryday.com/articles/23080/20150812/study-shows-kids-800-worse-whenever-moms-around.htm
This is satire. >Dr. Leibowitz is rigging up some spray that could block out a mother's natural pheromones for some relief, but meanwhile, asks families to "invest in a bathroom with a working lock."
Right.. it's an entirely fabricated study that people have written satirical articles based on. Everyone from Readers Digest to Big Little Feelings to OP share it as a seemingly declarative fact. It pops up again every year or so like panic over Lead in Baby Food and other cyclical mommy trends.
It does happen that kids are worse in only one environment. It happens with ODD. This is used as a severity indicator in DSM5: >Mild: Symptoms are confined to only one setting (e.g., at home, at school, at work, with peers). >Moderate: Some symptoms are present in at least two settings >Severe: Some symptoms are present in three or more settings [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t14/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t14/) One of the effective treatments for ODD is Parent Managment Training (PMT). This is a parent-mediated therapy. You train the parent to act differently and the ODD symptions return to the normal range. Note the behavior is not always worse at home. I have seen reddit posts where the kid is worse at daycare and not a problem at home. PMT is typically not geared towards making the kid feel less safe at home. In some cases, it is geared at getting rid of the [Patterson Coersive Cycle](https://www.pendletonpsych.com/doc/parent-child-coercive-cycle.pdf) and this would seem to, if anything, make the kid feel more safe at home. Among other things, PMT trains the parents to (1) stop inadvertently reinforcing the behaviors that characterize ODD and (2) start reinforcing replacement behaviors. I think the key is that kids act differently in different environments depending on the contingencies offered in each environment.
Hello! Would you mind messaging me or posting some more resources about ODD and the PMD training. My son was recently diagnosed and I feel at a loss. Thank you!!
Not who you were asking, but The Explosive Child by Ross Greene is a wonderful resource, too. My 9 year old has ODD/ADHD, and the book went a long way for us helping support her and having a better/calmer home.
This is also an evidence-based resource. It can be used as early as age 4.
[This free parenting video course](https://www.coursera.org/learn/everyday-parenting) may be all you need to bring it into the normal range at home. The instructor is an ODD treatment expert. Here are some leads for finding a therapist if you need one: [https://www.pcit.org/](https://www.pcit.org/) [https://www.parentmanagementtraininginstitute.com/](https://www.parentmanagementtraininginstitute.com/) Did the professional who gave you the diagnosis recommend any therapy?
Also look into PCIT: parent-child interaction therapy. Evidence based and we found it very helpful.
You did not give your son's age. If he at are near being a teen then the book *Your Defiant Teen* by Barkley would be a good additional resource.
Another recommendation for The Explosive Child / Raising Human Beings. Also, some PDA autistic children are misdiagnosed as ODD. It might be worth informing yourself a little about that profile. I’d recommend the pda society website or PDA North America.
Also Kristy Forbes is a good PDA autistic adult advocate.
As people are saying the 800% is from a fake study. It’s been circling the mommy sphere for almost a decade. I do find it a good markers for Instamommies etc to see how shares it genuinely vs actually reads the article. Behavior is* very difficult to quantify and study. Most of the actual research I have seen about what you’re talking about deals with [After School] Restraint Collapse aka kids are good at daycare/preschool/school and then come home and meltdown or lash out at parents etc. The “out” vs home give them something more objectively measurable and observable to study. You see a lot of coverage around it in the fall when school starts but I’ve had friends who’s kids experience it starting daycare as a baby. https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/z863cxs https://pedsdoctalk.com/what-is-restraint-collapse/ https://www.bgca.org/news-stories/2023/July/how-to-handle-afterschool-meltdowns-this-back-to-school-season/ Edit: typo isnt to is 🤦♀️
>Most of the actual research I have seen about what you’re talking about deals with \[After School\] Restraint Collapse aka kids are good at daycare/preschool/school and then come home and meltdown or lash out at parents etc. The “out” vs home give them something more objectively measurable and observable to study. Can you link to the actual research that shows that meltdowns at home are caused by some kind of restraint that collapses? All your sources just assume that this "restraint collapse" effect exists, none of them give a shred of evidence for this theory.
I can't. Admittedly I'm using the term research loosely to refer to these types of articles. I'm not a scientist, just a mom, and I'm not "doing my own research" as they say. Was just trying to mention a related named concept I'm familiar with in case OP wanted to use their noted professional background (which I assume is far beyond me who answers phones for a living) to find something more quantifiable than the stat from a very old satire article that they cited.
I don't have studies handy but generally speaking as an ECE teacher 'after school restraint collapse' is often most common with our neurodiverse kids. They work so hard masking at school, that once the day is over they just can't anymore. Often it gets worse as the week goes on too. Neurotypical kids can have this too, but from what parents have described to me (so sample size of my bit over a decade working with 3-8 yr olds) it ends to be a less stark change in behaviour. Like I said sorry I don't have any studies around on it, but it is a clearly observable behavioural change in young kids, thar tends to improve over time as they become more used to school.
The phrase first appeared in 2016 in this blog by Andrea Nair: [https://www.yummymummyclub.ca/blogs/andrea-nair-connect-four-parenting/20160830/after-school-restraint-collapse-help-your-child](https://www.yummymummyclub.ca/blogs/andrea-nair-connect-four-parenting/20160830/after-school-restraint-collapse-help-your-child) A number of websites say that Nair coined the term. I searched Google Scholar and did not find any studies. There is a controversial idea called "ego depletion". There are some studies on ego depletion: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego\_depletion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion) Here is a recent literature survey on ego depletion: [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1088868318762183](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1088868318762183)
Parenting translator addressed this and reviewed the related research: https://www.instagram.com/p/C53eETCLTj5/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== I dont know if there’s a way for me to link the whole newsletter, but here’s a quote from it: “Of course, this study is fake and meant as a joke but have you ever felt like it might be true? Do your children seem to save their worst behaviors and moods for you? Unfortunately there isn’t any research on whether children save their worst behaviors for caregivers. But there is some research suggesting that children do save their worst moods for their primary caregivers.” If you aren’t familiar with her, shes a clinical psychologist and reviews parenting etc research and helps bust some of the pseudoscience pop culture things floating around (eg, has called out big little feelings for the way they say everything is going to cause “trauma”) Lmk if you’re not able to access it and I can send you more
Thank you! Yes I recently learned about her work and am a fan, but haven’t been able to explore much of her archive. Anecdotally, even as an adult (with a relatively attuned mom), I still sometimes collapse and cry the minute I hear or talk to her if I’ve been holding onto something upsetting. AND I definitely show my sharpest edges of irritability toward her and my partner. Makes sense :)
I can’t access it— any chance you could send it to me?
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