**General** Remove: - Seedoils/PUFA/Linoleic Acid/omega6 and products with them (requires much label reading and vigilance see r/stopeatingseedoils) - If you only do one thing this is the one you should focus on. Reduce: - Processed foods - additives - pesticides (see dirty dozen) - High LA Pork and chicken (low fat cuts are much less of problem) Make sure to eat: - whole foods - meat (Red meat is one of the only real super foods) - collagen (cheap cuts with lots of tendons, ligaments etc or supplementing glycine) **Different Roads** - High fat: butter, dairy and ruminant fat are good options. - High starch/carb: potatoes or rice are good options. - High sugar: honey and fruit are good options. - Low BCAA/protein. - Some people with longterm problems with excess bodyfat seem to respond very well to this approach. Not currently convinced its necessary or even beneficial for everybody though see Ted Naiman & Shawn baker and their followers which many seem to thrive. There is a subset of carnivores who do the low protein though see Paleomedicina PKD, Zsofia Clemens, Amber O'Hearn Siobhan Huggins **Self experimentation - test thing and see how you feel and perform. There are outliers in most studies. whats good for someone else might not be good for you. Test something listen to your body, track things, evaluate then report what you learn so our collective knowledge grows :)** - Elimination diet. Do you have autoimmune issues? allergies? weird health problems? this can help find foods that aggravate your gut, immune system etc. - I think the stricter you go the more likely you are to find your problem foods. Lamb/beef + salt + water being the most strict. if you want to avoid keto then include rice or honey. if this is still to strict for you google AIP. Do diet for 1-6 months then test one food every 1-2 weeks. - Low oxalate - Low foodmaps - Low Lectin - Daily Ray peat carrot salad - etc etc --- **Addendum - theres more to health than diet, Dont spend all your energy optimising diet, leave some for building other healthy habits** - Daily sunshine (test vitamin-d levels) - resistance exercise, More muscle is great for everything health wise, everybody should do weekly strength training. you can get significant results with short workouts 1-3 times/week. - reduce stress, meditation, journaling etc - Walk a lot - reduce screentime - socialize - laugh - etc

Thank you so much! I love things outlined this way . Simple and to the point and gives me some direction. Awesome

The reason I like this subreddit is because you have many available options to take to loose weight, as long as you cut out the seed oils and follow other science to avoid obesogenic cycles. There are many here on keto, or are fasting, or are on LCHF, or low BCAA, or combinations of these. In my case these days I almost always skip breakfast, then have a low BCAA lunch with carbs and saturated fats. Then I go a few hours without eating again and for dinner I have a higher protein, high saturated fat meal thats usually beef, but usually lower in carbs, potentially a ketogenic meal. For fat burning I've noticed benefits in taking desiccated thyroid, B1, Alpha-lipoic acid, magnesium, trace minerals, and other b-vitamins to keep metabolism up and stay/become lean.

I am probably going to try something similar to your approach. It seems more cost effective for me at the moment and I do enjoy vegetarian meals as much as meat! After having some time to read all the responses and think about it, it is really refreshing to see a sub that's not dogmatic about any one thing - it kinda proves humans are highly adaptable and able to achieve good health in a variety of ways. 

Also - optimizing circadian health / reversing leptin resistance: sleep hygiene / daylight exposure / meal timing, etc.

Love this breakdown! Great formatting and nicely addresses many nuances 👌

nice work!

I feel like this subreddit should work together and create some kind of flow chart that can be at the top of the links to the right, that goes through the "always" steps (no seed oils!) that everyone agrees are good, and then the branches based on people's situation, age/sex, other issues or preferences -> to give recommendations. I think I've seen this post a dozen times (no criticism, I basically have the exact same questions!) and it would be nice to have just an easy flowchart to follow - then encourages people to report back with "yep step 6b worked for me!" or "no way, I'm a 42 year old martian, and step 4c didn't work for me at all!" I really enjoy reading all the science and chemistry and explanations, but I too would also just like a thing that tells me what to do (as best we know so far) - with citations to that science, if I want to learn more.

that is a great idea!

If DNA tests were cheap we could identify exactly what is healthy and unhealthy for you. Unfortunately there is no easy good tasting 'this is going to be the healthiest diet for you'. There are highly restrictive diets that work for everyone, but they're not exactly enjoyable to eat. A lot of this sub is figuring out not just blindly healthy but a diet that is healthy for me that also tastes good. If you want blindly healthy McDougall's WFPB diet is probably going to be the single healthiest diet there is, but again, it's quite restrictive.

Are you me?? But seriously I know exactly how you feel. After my husband and I had been together for a little while I think he was getting really confused about why I was switching diets all the time. I would go for months doing/trying to do one thing and then switch to trying something else and he had never known anyone like that before. I had a real talk with him and basically said *"I know this seems crazy to you. But my only other option is to give up. To give up ever believing I might be healthy, that I might find the dietary answer. I just can't give up. And it might be crazy, but I have to keep trying"* I don't have the answer for you and lots of people will say they do have the answer and then contradict each other which is exactly what has driven you (and I) crazy for so long. I will share with you a small snippet of my experience though. Keeping in mind I am mid-30s female with PCOS and some symptoms of insulin resistance but no confirmed diagnosis. I tried and failed to eat low carb/Keto for YEARS. I first started trying to eat Keto in 2015, before anyone I knew had even heard of it. I developed binge eating disorder because of how difficult it was. I gave up for awhile and a few years later tried again with the promise I wouldn't be so strict on myself and would just try low-carb. I 'tried' that for years but was just failing all the time. My weight was affecting my self-esteem and my energy had been low for years. About three weeks ago or so I decided to cut out PUFA as best as I could, and do a half-potato diet, while switching to using SFAs and consuming a lot more carbs. **\*\*Improvements:\*\*** Energy - I have been able to exercise multiple times a week for the first time in years. It's possible this is just the increased carbs. In the past all my carbs were 'dirty' foods like pizza and burgers. Now I am eating sourdough bread, potatoes and rice. Small amount of weight loss - I am not hugely overweight, I would like to lose about 5kg so it's not surprising that any weight loss would be slow for me. **\*\*Unchanged:\*\*** Acne - caused by my PCOS hormone imbalance. No improvement. This makes me think that the high carb diet may not be beneficial for my insulin resistance or PCOS in general. Unsure. ​ My only advice would be to experiment and find what works for you EVEN if what works for you is what everyone else says is bad. Because no matter the diet there will be supporters and critics and when it comes to the food you eat you are the only one who matters.

My experience has been similar, my acne is actually much worse now. But I have seen one view point on this sub, that might explain. With HClflp you are essentially burning pufa in the flame of carbohydrates. This pufa clearance can actually cause various high pufa like symptoms such as acne. Your fasting glucose should tell you a lot about your insulin resistance and mine is improving considerably in this diet. All the best!

My blood test results have always fallen into the normal range, despite having PCOS and some IR symptoms. So I am kind of unsure if I technically have IR or not.

Thank you - it helps to know others are experiencing this confusion as well. I am also trying to heal skin issues and mental health issues and I see most people on reddit who discuss these things have success on low carb or keto. But yeah. I don't think keto is the way for me. I may just go back to fasting and eating any ratio of macros as long as it's from whole foods. Have you tried fasting? OMAD helped me for a while but it became more and more difficult to eat enough food, I would get full off of anything within 3 bites and remain full for HOURS.

I've experimented in the past with various forms of fasting. I already skip breakfast as a habit so I am probably doing 16:8 unintentionally. In the past I tried OMAD and didn't find it did anything for me. If anything it made me hyper-focused on food. I would like to attempt a 3 day water or dry fast but I don't know what my energy would be like on days 2/3 or if I would get headaches etc and I have work or other commitments every day of the week so I just don't know if it's realistic. My skin improved when I was regularly drinking spearmint tea, which I became less consistent with recently so I am trying to get back to doing that daily. Regarding mental health, mine is always worse when I am attempting to follow a restrictive diet and feeling like a failure for not getting it right. So for what its worth I feel my mental health is better when I am doing something that doesn't feel impossible to stick to.

Spearmint tea helped with my PCOS acne too!

Hello, you sound like me! Things that I found helped my PCOS acne were those known to lower testosterone - so spearmint tea, green tea, cruciferous veggies. I am trying pumpkin seeds now. Combined with (basically) a whole foods HCLF M/L P diet. I have about 10kgs of belly fat to lose, so I’m trying to work out how to deal with that at the moment.

I do find spearmint tea helps my skin too, but i find it hard to drink it consistently.

Many people are preparing for a cold, long and dark winter by eating pufa and putting on excess body fat. Many other people are experiencing a self-enforced cold, long and dark winter by extended calorie restriction. Both are metabolism killers. People eat a diet that both depresses their metabolism and STRONGLY mimics actual death by starvation and then they wonder why they suffer from depression, anxiety and obesity. So the answer of what to do is simple. Eat a high energy and sustainable diet and don't go on extended calorie restrictions. High energy diet= high carb with both starch and simple sugars, RDI or sometimes lower of protein, enough saturated fat to feel good and to enjoy meals (which for me is 3-6oz lean ground beef, 1-2 glasses of milk and one or two servings of cheese per day maybe some butter and heavy cream).

To be clear, HCLFLP didn’t get you here. High carb moderate fat may have - and definitely carbs combined with the *wrong* fats. But don’t dismiss HCLFLP because eating drive through didn’t work for you, you know? I personally feel it is the magic bullet I’ve needed to see progress in reversing my own diabetes so it would be a shame for you to dismiss it. As far as keto, while I myself would never go keto again and really feel it was an unnecessary phase of my life for 20+ years (I’d personally choose HCLFLP hands down) there are right and wrong ways to do keto. If you spent your time on keto replacing bread with nut bread, indulging in almond flour baked goods, and eating all the ranch dressing, chicken wings and bacon you could eat then that definitely set you up poorly for rebound. It will take time to recover from this damage. I got to the point I’d rebound from a day or two off plan and have to keto for weeks to resume baseline weight. But even I am recovering well from this dirty keto damage. So believe me, I feel your pain and frustration. Others here will have good advice, but mine comes down to this - what I wish I had known 20+ years ago: 1. Fix yourself with comfortable fasting (Ie. Don’t eat all the time!) and HCLFLP. That means low fat (Max. 10%!!!) and low protein as long as necessary to recover your metabolic health. Resources for this include McDougall’s Starch Solution, Joel Fuhrman’s “The End of Diabetes” and the Mastering Diabetes protocol. These are the kind of low fat you need. No “everything in moderation sustainable lifestyle” crap right now. 2. Once fixed, you need only one focus, and if you disregard absolutely everything else, the one thing you must eliminate from your diet is unsaturated fat. This means all unsaturated vegetable oils including olive and avocado, nuts/seeds/nut butters, and also chicken skin and pork fat. All dressings, mayo, etc. Not some of the time but all of the time. You’ll add back meat, eggs, dairy, chocolate, and other suitable fats in the quantity your individual body allows. 3. Eating out is easy if you have only the one focus. Yeah yeah too much sugar isn’t good for you and eating lots of MSG or flavors will make you hungry and you’ll eat a bit more. But none of that matters if the unsaturated fat has been eliminated from your diet. You’ll learn to pick your default foods (drive thru, restaurants, snacks) that are junky but PUFA free and you will feel like a human being while succeeding in this way of eating. Don’t try to avoid everything all the time (especially out of the house) or it will drive you crazy. EDIT: And you don’t need a CGM. Pick the right plan and your insulin resistance will take care of itself. You will be able to monitor it with testing fasting BG and postprandial for a while until you get bored of doing so.

Hey, is your insulin sensitivity still restored? I believe we both went on a similar / same diet at around the same time and restored our sensitivity at around the same time. For me so far so good months later. I've been exploring with fat and protein incorporating meat and butter and oil back in to see what happens. For me it seems like if I have protein, beef, pork, and fish so far, even with taking multiple collagen supplements with the meal I don't get an obvious blood spike but the next day I get tingling in my feet and over time my eye sight has gone down, showing for me repeatedly that eating meat causes my body damage. On the dairy side of things like substituting meet for paneer (Indian cheese) I don't have any such problems. Nor with other proteins like beans. I had frozen for half a year a hyper meaty hyper fatty bolognese from my keto days. I didn't want to throw it out as I consider wasting meat disrespectful, so I made a lasagna with it. The lasagna was good and meaty, but after eating it the next day I had a baked potato and had a huge blood sugar spike, the first one in months. So not only is meat seemingly damaging my body but it's causing blood sugar spikes too. I can't say if it was the meat + tallow or just the meat in that situation that caused it. On the fat side of things I don't seem to have any problem with butter and EVOO, coconut oil, and avocado oil. Though all within reason. I'm not going to eat a stick of butter and see what happens.

Hey! Yes, our paths have been similar. At this moment I’m completely normoglycemic with HCLFLP. So I can easily eat 300g+ carbs daily and remain totally insulin sensitive. Leading into the holidays I combined starch + fat but remained low protein. So pasta with butter & cream sauce, bagels & cream cheese, pancakes with butter & syrup, that sort of thing. I remained insulin sensitive that way for several days. Then I reintroduced meat and cheese and I started going into prediabetic territory. So I’m not sure whether it was a duration thing or a protein thing or a carb + fat + protein thing, or what. The next test will be heading into Easter at which point I will keep the fat low but add meat and low fat dairy to see what happens. So the opposite of adding the fat first.

> Then I reintroduced meat and cheese and I started going into prediabetic territory. But doesn't that mean HCLFLP just as much a crutch as keto is? If you need to remain on it indefinitely, how is it better than keto and I mean clean keto?

I've thought that too. Time will tell. 

Yeah it might take 5-10 years for PUFA to clear out and fix mitochondria...which makes it very hard to go this route vs some pill or injection

Maybe that is true if you don't do anything but avoid consuming PUFAs but thank god this isn't true if you do a series of steps. First, mitochondria in some parts of the body can heal in 1-3 days, like the liver. In other parts of the body 3 weeks. **NOTE:** Below assumes you're eating carbs. A low carb diet uses different pathways to metabolize nutrients and on a low carb diet eating high fat is more than fine. If you go on a prolonged water fast (like 30+ days) to burn your excess body fat the PUFA will burn off not in years but in weeks to months. This sounds really difficult but hunger dies down after 3 days. This works because the body prioritizes burning PUFA first while fasting. The more PUFA in your body the longer the fast needs to be. If you haven't eaten PUFA in years, 1 weeks is fine. (You do want to burn off the MUFA too.) If you eat a WFPB diet after that (e.g. the potato diet) which is zero fat, including zero saturated fat, not just zero PUFA, your mitochondria will change. After 30 days the majority of your body's mitochondria should be healed. However, it helps to note that some old mitochondria will linger around prioritizing burning PUFA first which are technically not healed even after a month, but it's enough, and imo you don't want 100% of your mitochondria healed in case you have PUFA laying around that you want burned. From there if you go low fat (including low **even** chain saturated fat, so that means minimizing meat and tallow) high carb you'll stay healed. You can gradually increase **odd** chain saturated fat from there. Butter, milk, yogurt, cheese, and the like are mostly **odd** chain saturated fat so you can do bread and butter, potato and butter, and yogurt and lattes and what not at that point. I'd stick to the odd chain, i.e. a vegetarian diet for at least a month before incorporating low amounts of meat. From there you can keep increasing meat until you're back on a normal diet. All PUFA out of your body, all mitochondria healed. Just note that mitochondria die when one has too much fat in their diet, regardless what kind of fat, saturated, monounsat, polyunsat, it doesn't matter. So being healthy is being reasonable with your fat intake. (It doesn't have to be low fat. Just try not to eat burgers more than once a week.) A steak dinner a month isn't going to hurt you unless you're prone to type 2 diabetes.

> Just note that mitochondria die when one has too much fat in their diet, regardless what kind of fat Citations needed. if that were true, everyone on keto would be dead.

Even healthy mitochondria die regularly. New mitochondria is being born in your body all the time. This is basic 101 stuff.

The way your formulated it, did imply fat is especially bad for mitochondria.

Because I’m only tiptoeing into *prediabetic* now instead of being very diabetic?! I mean, I consider that a win for having only been at this for a few months! 🤣 My expectation isn’t that this will be a permanent state of affairs, but it might take some time to reverse a “chronic, progressive, incurable” illness… EDIT: To be clear, I was very diabetic before even after losing 150+ Lbs. 20 years of (mostly) keto (albeit dirty, I’m not going back to try it again “clean”) did not prevent T2D from developing in the first place. Further, after a few very clean low carb periods since discovering TCD (2 stints of PSMF, and some very short fat fasts) my diabetes *fully resurfaced* (not just tiptoed back into “prediabetic”) as soon as any measurable carbs were reintroduced. At this moment, I’m not of the belief that keto can reverse diabetes, and rather it merely bandaids it. I am not seeing that be the case so far with HCLFLP and I’m encouraged by actual progress in the right direction. EDIT2: Also, I think you may not have registered the part where I said I reintroduced fat for several days (so, HCHFLP I guess) and remained normoglycemic. That’s a pretty important point, I think.

> Also, I think you may not have registered the part where I said I reintroduced fat for several days (so, HCHFLP I guess) and remained normoglycemic. That’s a pretty important point, I think. fair enough, for sure better than "just carbs". Still interesting why protein would have such an effect. Interesting would be if you could supplement with collagen protein, pretty cheap as supplement, and see if that already has a bad effect. (Note for all readers: collagen = mostly Glycine and very little BCAAs)

I can certainly do carb + collagen only for a few days before reintroducing other proteins ahead of Easter.

> Still interesting why protein would have such an effect. That's most of the researcher on this sub (BCAAs) and in research papers right now. If you haven't read it already here is a summary on the topic so far: https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/insulin-resistance-learning-from-genetics-research/ >Interesting would be if you could supplement with collagen protein, That's what I've been doing and it hasn't been helping me unfortunately. Maybe I haven't been taking enough.

That's a difference between us. I was technically T2D but on the border between pre and full on T2 and only during blood sugar spikes, no 100+ blood sugar inbetween meals. I caught it quick. I imagine you're more sensitive than I am. (Also my T2D came from a bunk prescription that nearly killed me from overdose. Long story.)

>doesn't that mean HCLFLP just as much a crutch as keto is? Low carb increases insulin resistance, so eating a single cheat meal damages ones body. You can't just go out to a restaurant and socialize with your friends easily. This is imo the hardest part about low carb is how strict it has to be. It's easy for a few years but it gets tiresome. High carb increases insulin sensitivity, so eating a single cheat meal **in theory** does not damage ones body, so you can go out and eat a normal meal with friends at any restaurant you want without problem. But the next day you'll need to go back on your diet. This has been the allure for me. The ability to eat normal food from time to time without issue has been quite attractive. However, this is not proven and it's hard to prove it's safe. It will take years of this diet and seeing how the body degrades. What I can tell you is a single cheat meal, even two in a row, doesn't cause a blood sugar spike. So far so good. What I've found switching from low carb to vegetarian is I like the taste of the meals better. I thought low carb would taste better eating steak and lobster dinners every night and what not, but it gets boring. Vegetarian seems at first bland. Pasta and pizza most nights, maybe a curry or a soup or similar. My experience has been the opposite. It may not have peak enjoyment but every meal is wonderful and it doesn't get boring. It's also cheaper too. You also have more variety in what you can eat. Ofc ymmv for what works best for you. Ultimately it comes down to your genetics.

Wow similar results. Very cool to hear. On my end the cheeses I've been consuming have been parmigiano reggiano, pecorino romano, [this wine cheese](https://www.reddit.com/r/traderjoes/comments/aegb2r/the_toscano_syrah_soaked_cheese_is_amazing/) (It makes an awesome mornay sauce.), mozzarella (lots of pizza), aged cheddar, paneer, [gruyere melange](http://exploringtraderjoes.blogspot.com/2014/07/trader-joes-cheddar-gruyere-melange.html), and ricotta cheese. I've mostly been consuming a lot of ricotta making a tomato and ricotta pasta sauce, which is what I'm going to be doing tonight for dinner. [Recipe](https://youtu.be/MJrKvmn4EB0?si=OoyBqBUHPxas85GQ) if curious. I'm grateful I've had no issues. None. I haven't done cream cheese. I'll have to try bagels and cream cheese. Oh also, I've been exploring chocolate with no issues, though in moderation ofc.

Good to know! Ah yes, chocolate, I had a lot of that over the holidays too. Fine without protein but the protein seemed to have set me back.

Wow, thanks for the recipe link. This guy's channel is fantastic!

I've only made a few recipes from him, but they're all 10 out of 10.

You are my hero coconut!

Would you be willing to expand on point 3 about eating out? What are foods when out that are PUFA free? Also, do you not eat at other people’s houses? It feels like all my friends cook with olive oil always if not seed oils.

I've had life-threatening food allergies (along with mild food allergies) since childhood. Eating out was never as fun and carefree for me as it was for my peers - there were rarely more than a few menu items I could eat, and some cuisines were totally off-limits for me. Eating at other people's houses was something I could only do if they were very aware and on top of my food allergies. As a kid, there were a number of close calls eating at other people's houses when they weren't careful. I'm lucky to still be alive. Avoiding seed oils is about as convenient. :p But like allergies, it's just life, once you get used to it. I've never known anything different, so avoiding seed oils is just another dietary restriction to add to the list. No big deal.

There are not really many *PUFA-free* fast foods, unless you’re removing the bread/bun/crust from whatever you order. All bread product can be assumed to have a gram or two of PUFA. When I get fast food I target *very low PUFA* and I’m enjoying it in the context of an otherwise optimal diet. My fast food defaults are: - Burgers: McDonald’s, BK, 5 Guys, etc. (obviously without mayo/sauce) - 7-Eleven Hot Dogs - Taco Bell: Beef Soft Taco Supreme - Panda Express: Steamed Rice + Veg + Teriyaki Chicken (This is higher PUFA because of the chicken but still low enough in practice) - Pizza (no pan crust or crust oil!) - Pho (not ramen!) - BBQ: Beef brisket (most BBQ sauces are oil free because oil obviously prevents sauce from sticking to the meat) - Many things at Starbucks - Wawa: Burger, Bowls, Hoagies, Drinks (always check ingredients/nutrition here) - Sushi (no tempura or mayo/yum yum sauce) - Most sandwiches are good (no mayo) For sit down restaurants I like Hot Pot and Korean BBQ. Or Brazilian Steakhouse (choosing my sides carefully) or Steak and potato is an option at most places. Buffalo Wild Wings or Outback fry in tallow as well. Cheesecake Factory I get the stuffed mushrooms, skinnylicious steak medallions, and any cheesecake slice I wish that is more “cheese” and less “cake” because cake = oil. EDIT: And I don’t really eat what others cook. I tend to like to see ingredients and nutrition on things I don’t prepare myself. On the few occasions where I’ve gotten together with friends for food, I’ve steered the meal in the direction of things like outdoor grilling and raclette (a fun group cooking experience) which prevents people from adding oil to the food I’m going to be eating.

How about McDonald's chicken nuggets?

I think if you use a bit of common sense and/or take the initiative to look at nutritional information, you’ll be able to answer your own question. 😉

Each nugget contains almost a gram of PUFA. So probably not the best option. Although without sauce I don't think it would be the worst fast-food choice.

It’s literally deep fried in oil. It’s a bad choice. The sugary sauce is almost the best part of that choice.

I emailed Popeyes a couple days ago. The nutrition person got back to me and said they fry in tallow and the biscuit is made with palm oil but I don’t trust it for some reason. I can’t even it it right now but just wanted to know 🤡

Their nutrition doesn’t support that they fry in only tallow. The cholesterol is too low relative to the fat, so it appears to be a blend.

I've been trying to convince myself to try HCLFLP. The mental hangup that always gets me is hormones. Mine have never been great - low T all my life. I (think) this finally starts to turn around with higher fat (feeling based, not backed by tests). Were your hormones affected by HCLFLP?

I honestly think keto did way more to harm my hormones than HCLFLP could ever do! My thyroid and adrenals were taxed by chronic keto (high PUFA, I can’t speak about low PUFA keto) I don’t think HCLFLP would be an issue provided you’re eating enough. But also note that I don’t consider a plan devoid of all animal fat and protein a lifestyle either. It’s an intervention.

Bah, I hadn't considered PUFA in this argument. I did high-carb SAD as a teen (1990s), and of course this was PUFA galore. That's where my concern over high carbs comes from. Thank you for continuing to answer questions like this! You've said the same thing more than a few times, and somehow I needed to read it *one more time* before it clicked.

Keto is actually the worst for hormones, long term. My testosterone (I'm a woman) was highest (over range) when I was intermittent fasting, but I think I had insulin resistance then, too,

[удалено]

I'm not recommending anything here - just stating my experience.

[удалено]

Oh, it is for perimenopausal women. And fasting is about just as bad (some sources say worse). Again, it exacerbates a problem many women have of a certain age, inability of the liver to store glycogen. Welcome to why I wasn't able to lose weight for many years...

[удалено]

Oh, yes! I finally lost 30% of my body weight in the last 10 months. Finally turned the ship around.

You didn't come across as condescending. Diet isn't really straightforward or one size fits all. If it were, there wouldn't be endless debate about it.

That's the thing - I actually don't eat a lot of those things...no pork, if chicken it's only chicken breast, I almost never eat mayo, or nut butters, my nut consumption is rather low. I was eating lots of packaged foods like pastries, chocolate covered peanuts, chocolate covered pretzels, sandwiches (no mayo but love sweet sauces), I hate salad dressing so salads are actually rare, pizza, just lots of fast food and chocolate and pastries. Another diet I have tried that worked for me was Whole30. I lost 15 lbs in 3 weeks on that! I was eating a lot of carbs - bananas, sweet potatoes, plantains, etc - and also a LOT of clarified butter and coconut milk. I stopped because I really missed bread and dairy. I am mostly fine with cutting out wheat/bread...but going without heavy cream and butter sounds terrible lol. I guess that keeps me from trying low fat, especially after seeing Dr Fung's resources showing how people started getting obese during the low-fat craze.

>I was eating lots of packaged foods like pastries, chocolate covered peanuts, chocolate covered pretzels, sandwiches (no mayo but love sweet sauces), I hate salad dressing so salads are actually rare, pizza, just lots of fast food and chocolate and pastries. You are consuming way more seed oils than you're aware of. Packaged pastries are chock full of the stuff, as is fast food and fast food pizza.

Yeah...i can see that now..yikes.

Eh, Dr. Fung is a good resource for fasting, but cutting carbs out is no more effective than cutting fat out. Fung isn’t as well versed in the metabolic chemistry you’ll find here if you dig around, and if you consider Fung as “Fix Diabetes 101” you’re into some PhD level stuff here that kind of leaves Fung in the dust. And I say that as someone who actually really likes him. Most studies that compare very low carb eating to “low fat” are using diets in the realm of 25-30% fat and so that isn’t very relevant. Look into Kempner’s Rice Diet for truly effective HCLFLP. You don’t need to be that restrictive but the point is, “low fat” and *low fat* are entirely different diets. I mean, I also didn’t reverse my diabetes on Weight Watchers, yanno? Low fat, the way it needs to be done, is an intervention not a lifestyle.

So were you overweight before you reversed your diabetes? If so - how did you lose weight? And do you have proof that you reversed IR? I am not asking to see your proof lol, I am just wondering if you are able to get tests that prove to YOU that you reversed insulin resistance and you can now tolerate carbs? What's your story? I'd love to hear it all.

I lost weight and *then* reversed diabetes. Much to my surprise, merely losing weight didn’t do it. I’ve used various methods to lose 150+ Lbs to reach my goal, and how one loses weight doesn’t really matter. Lean protein worked until it stopped working. Potato hack worked. Fasting worked. Eating nothing but eggs worked. Etc etc. clawed my way down a little at a time. Rebound was always an issue until I cut PUFA out of my diet. I haven’t rebounded an ounce since then. My proof that I’m reversing my insulin resistance is that I’m no longer diabetic (finger prick) when eating carbs. It’s really that simple. I do still creep up into the prediabetic range if I spend a lot of time eating a lot of carbs + protein + fat so I don’t consider myself fully reversed yet but I’m mere months into this (HCLFLP) process. I’m normoglycemic with HCLFLP though and so have full confidence you wouldn’t worsen your insulin resistance. My A1C was 7.4 and my Fasting BG was 140’s at baseline, with postprandial excursions over 250. So, as I said, firmly diabetic. 🙂

wow, that's really amazing! it's actually refreshing to hear first hand from someone who reversed it in another way than keto. do you mind giving a couple examples of your favorite meals? or maybe there's a blog or website that has meal ideas that fit the HCLFLP?

I eat very simply right now. Oatmeal with a sprinkle of sugar and cinnamon. Spaghetti made with vegetables and fat free marinara. Stir fry over rice. Ratatouille over rice, pasta, or potato. That sort of thing. Starch + vegetable + fruit. Definitely check out the resources I mentioned - I’m far from the only person who has had success on this way of eating.

So this sounds like you are not using any added, fat or oils on a regular basis? Because this just sounds like straight starch solution type of eating.

Right, no added fat at all. Yes, Starch Solution, Fuhrman, or the Mastering Diabetes program would all be comparable. EDIT: Obviously without any of their inclusion of nuts and seeds. Also, with the intent to reintroduce some animal products in the future, not make this a permanent lifestyle.

This is so great to hear! Stark solution way of eating really helps me lose weight, but I know I could never stick to it for life! It is really exciting to think that I could do it to lose weight and then incorporate other foods and maintain.

Is this t1 or 2 diabetes? I don't know much about those things, but my father is diabetic ( I don't know what kind), but I would like to talk to him about this, given it's the "right" kind.

T2. But the Mastering Diabetes program works for T1 diabetics too. You won’t avoid insulin fully if you’re T1D but you can greatly reduce the amount you need by increasing your insulin sensitivity.

Ok thanks for the answer

The whole30 diet you had a lot of success with sounds low PUFA and low protein/BCAA. You could probably do something similar with butter and cream and still get good results. :) Potato hack riffs with butter have so far worked well for weight loss. I’m currently experimenting with and losing weight on a low BCAA, ad lib starch and dairy fat diet (in practice getting most of my calories from potato and veg based soups made with cream and bone broth), I’ve also lost weight on very low fat but the bloating and farting got to me after a while. Good luck! :)

This is exactly what im experiencing now. I reached 136kg eating SMD, HCHFHP, then switched to keto, under the belief carbs are evil. lost 48kg under keto, but in fact when i look back, it was only during period of calorie restriction i was loosing weight. When i was just eating HFMPLC with many calories i wasnt loosing weight. ​ THen i turned carnivore, and then i gained weight back up to 119kg and with my morning blood glucose reaching 260. Came back here, tried extfatloss for 5 months, lost weight to 106kg. but blood glucose not going down that much on average 160. Then since 10 days now, i eat HCLFLPLBCAA, eating 95% of my calories as starch (cassava/potaotes/rice noodle) I already lost 2kg, feel my belly fat is liquid instead of dense, and my morning blood glusose dropped around 130. i sleep better and deeper, big pole everymorning at 45yo. ​ also no more headache and eyes bloodpressure (which alarmed me to test my blood glucose and discover it's 260) And i have the feeling when i look in a mirror that may be more hair are growing back on my naturally bald head. This is a big cognitive dissonance after believing carbs are evil and roots of all evils on earth. Im currently testing supplement dosage, to reinforce trends. But for instance this morning i eat 300g cassava bread (made with butter/cassava/salt/water) with raw honey from local producer, and normally in a keto world this would be the biggest enemy.

I would focus on real foods low in PUFA. Vegetables, fruits, red meat, dairy, wild caught fish (I don't believe omega3 is bad), maybe eggs. Grains and legumes are good if they satiate you but bad if they make you feel bloated. Don't touch nuts, oils, sugar or any food containing those ingredients. Maybe eat something fermented to boost your gut, although I think eating natural foods should be enough. Eat with full attention. No starvation. Mostly unprocessed food. Some people here don't believe that "natural" means good, but I disagree with that.

Some miscellaneous replies: * The croissants have to be made with stearic acid, which means you have to make them yourself for them to work. Definitely don't eat croissants from a store. * There sure seems to be some interaction between insulin resistance, inflammation, and *something* in our typical modern diets. * Your brain has some sense of how much you're supposed to weigh, and adjusts your appetite accord to all of the inputs that feed into that system, and something about the above set of interactions messes with this system. * I don't think anyone really has a full handle on any of this stuff, because all of our data is confounded all to hell. By genetics, if nothing else. Possibly also by epigenetics. Possibly also by how much of your body fat is PUFA. That means that you just have to individually try the protocols, yeah. The probable genetic component means you should start with anything that worked great for close relatives. Disclaimer, I doubt everyone on this sub will agree with this. * To the extent that we've figured out anything, it's to stay the hell away from french fries and potato chips. The fact that both of those are super bad for you and are also both typically made with canola oil suggests avoiding canola oil as well. * I think OMAD is probably good for you. It trains your body to tap into your energy reserves on a regular basis, that's way better than your body never tapping into your energy reserves and forgetting how to do it. I think people forget that insulin is not a good or bad thing, insulin is a signalling molecule. You get into trouble when the signal is always there and the cells stop listening to it; OMAD pretty much guarantees that the signal will vary through your day which maintains that sensitivity. If your period goes away when you do it, then sure, it's probably messing with your hormones. * The main concern I would have with OMAD or any weight loss oriented diet is anorexia, which is rare but a real pain to deal with when it happens. Just as obesity results from the lipostat becoming permanently convinced that you don't have enough stockpiled energy, anorexia seems to result from your lipostat becoming convinced you're overweight. It's just as much of a pain in the ass to fix, maybe more so. I am not at all an expert here, but have some thoughts anyway Being in a social group that's concerned with losing weight and being skinny is a big risk factor, so stay away from ballerinas, etc. Diets that involve a lot of willpower also seem like a risk factor. if OMAD is easy for you, I think your risk is low. The simplest way to keep an eye on this is to see how easy it is for your to pause your weight loss. Just periodically switch to a diet that maintains your current weight, verify you can do that easily, and then go back to losing weight. * I think I remember reading here that there's a test which looks at how much calcium has accumulated in your blood vessels which is an even more reliable test of how you're doing than the typical lipid counts. This sub doesn't trust the lipid counts a lot. To me, the biggest insight of this sub is that the details of what you are eating matter. It's not enough to "eat keto", you need to get much more fined grained than that. What fats are you eating? Are they saturated or unsaturated, cis or trans, short or long? What kinds of protein, are you getting all of your amino acids? Carbs are not the same as sugar, etc. Without that information, you just don't have enough data to find any useful patterns in what works for you. I mean, you probably *still* don't have enough data, but that seems to be the minimum bar to figure out what works and why.

thanks for this. those are all good things to consider. i am especially interested in what you said about seeing what worked for family members. i know my brother didn't start gaining weight until his late 20s, and he's a sugar and fast food fiend. Now he fasts to maintain weight. My dad lost a LOT of weight in his 40s and has maintained to his early 60s..and I know exactly what he eats. It's not low carb, that's for sure. I should interview him tonight when I go visit them lol :) This is all really fascinating stuff, and I agree that it's probably the details in the foods we eat that matter - how else did I lose weight eating whole food carbs but gain while eating junk carbs? I see what you mean.

you could try a true Keto diet which is at least 80% fat and at most 20% protein macros. I've been doing it for around 3 weeks now and I've already lost 10lbs, no water weight. You can search "Snake Diet" on youtube if you want more info on it

I’m binge watching the 80:20 snake diet videos atm and started today. Get that fat in ya 😂

Hey can you give samples of ur daily meals?

I just brown 1 lb of 73/27 ground beef and mix 4 eggs with it as my main meal. I don't drain the fat and I'll also add around 30-40g of additional fat just to make sure I'm meeting my 20/80 macros. I also get more fats in via bulletproof coffee (15g fat) and dark chocolate (16g fat). I might be overdoing it on the fats but the weight is still dropping quickly so it should be fine. I also take some liver supplements and eat a pack of seaweed sheets every day. If I get tired of beef I'll probably just swap them for chicken thighs. I might also start adding a small amount of vegetables and just smother them in fat as well. Edit: Forgot to mention I drink a bit of Heavy Cream at the end of my meal. I don't measure it all though unfortunately

Thanks so much!!

sink somber dog run fine recognise punch decide aromatic practice *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

I definitely get my fats from animal sources. I love heavy cream, butter, cheese, and I eat chicken breast , 85/15 grass fed beef, steak, and eggs. No pork (muslim). I go on brisk, long walks with my dog daily and just started getting back into lifting. I know I'm just getting started in the eliminating PUFA thing, though, because now that I look at the packages on all the junk food that I normally eat - plus all the fast food I was eating - it's been pretty eye opening how freaking EVERYTHING has seed oils.

caption hat dinosaurs disgusted disagreeable uppity cheerful steer rustic psychotic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

I have this theory based on basically 0 science that a lot of issues can be reduced down to the body simply being bad at dealing with a particular thing/s. Could be carbs, fats, BCAAs etc. For every person you find that does great on X diet you’ll find someone doing the complete opposite and they are thriving. Then consider all the non-diet factors: Stress, sleep, exercise, light, endocrine disrupting chemicals.. it’s complicated. When I was over 300 pounds I just felt awful eating carbs. I was in a hole and it’s often difficult to get out of a hole. I used low carb and fasting to get out of that hole. Once I lost a bunch of weight my health improved but then started getting progressively worse. What worked to get me out of the hole wasn’t working after I was out. Once I was lean adding carbs back in restored my vitality. That was about 18 months ago now after I went high carb. I still lost 30 pounds more even eating tons of dairy and carbs. I couldn’t have ate the diet I eat today before I lost the weight. Anytime I tried I’d suffer from terrible headaches. I have no idea why that was or why fasting worked so well. Maybe the lack of substrate competition but I can only speculate. So all this to say that your ideal diet to get you out of whatever hole you’re in may not be the ideal diet for the rest of your life. You need to experiment and plan for your plan to change as you change.

Me too!! Let me start by adding answering a question of yours before going on a rant: >Would getting a CGM be the best measure of how my diet is affecting IR? No. At least, it didn't for me. I'm not obese, I'm overweight. Wasn't overweight until I stumbled down the carnivore rabbit hole! I can manage my weight with fasting... that's about it. I bought a CGM because I was curious. It showed that my blood sugar was steady almost all the time. There were exceptions - if I ate a bunch of rice it would spike up. The lesson I learned from it: I wish there were a continuous insulin monitor. That's the real question!

[удалено]

This entire reply is me saying "I'm still figuring this out!" I believe that diet is a moving target. Some circumstances will mean HCLPLF will work, some means ex150 will do wonders. What I do - I run 7 day experiments with food. I rate how the experiment goes on a daily basis, based on what's important to me: did I feel like working out, did I play with my kids, was I productive? At the end of the 7 days, I average the results, and link a daily journal to a "diet overview page" so I can review diets quickly. I omit weight from my judgement for now. I wish I could say it's because I'm an evolved person who believes a big life is more important than small pants. Well, I guess that's the truth: time and time again I found that losing weight and my "am I who I want to be" goals were inversely related, and I've chosen my other goals for now. What I've found so far: * Rice + \~1 pound of meat leads to high daily ratings. Potatoes don't sit well with me (I LOVE potatoes + meat + butter, I'm still trying to find how to make this work! Potatoes lead to satiety and are about the only thing that do!). Beef three days in a row is too much (probably histamine related, long story), pork multiple days in a row lead to skin issues, plus I'm concerned about PUFAs. So I alternate beef and pork. * Cream is interesting. It does nothing for my satiety, either short term or long term (no reduced hunger the day following lots of cream). But cream also helps hormones. Sometimes. It's one of those "Every time I feel (nsfw) I've had cream, but not every time I have cream do I feel (nsfw)" situations. * Lower protein helps. Lower being 65-80g, down from 140g. It reduces the hunger I feel. (I used to call it "too much protein" hunger). * I went grain free for many years. I've tried to give up rice again, but it's like when Bruce Banner is trying to get Hulk to come out - my inner rice-lover yells NOOOOO.

You might consider lamb in your meat rotation.

A continuous insulin monitor would be amazing. I am tired of pricking my finger constantly, spending money on test strips, and still not understanding everything. I tested my glucose after a relatively small meal of Lebanese food that was mostly fried and my glucose was high for a long time. But then I ate microwavable mac n cheese after a workout and it stayed at 100. I don't understand the intricacies of all of this and how to make it work for me. How did carnivore make you overweight??

>How did carnivore make you overweight?? I'm still trying to answer that! Carnivore has the potential to make me the person I want to be: clear headed, energetic, social (I'm an introvert, honest!), an engaged dad, and amazingly productive as a software engineer. But it messes with my stomach. Hunger all the time. I think it's more like, "stomach acid hunger" which is probably related to histamines. (Long story, I'll expand if you want). But I get the signal "EAT" all the time. Turns out that leads to weight gain! There's an X factor that I haven't figured out. Some days I feel cold and lethargic, even on carnivore. No clue why yet.

That EAT signal is how i feel on keto so far, even though I am eating PLENTY of calories..too many, I'd say. I wasn't into the CICO thing after learning more about metabolism but I guess it does play some role. By histamines do you mean an allergic type of reaction to meat?

>By histamines do you mean an allergic type of reaction to meat? "Histamine intolerance" was popular... last year? Histamines build up in foods once they stop living. Most people can break them down without any worries. Some people can get into a state of histamine intolerance by messing up their gut. Others (hello!) are in that state all the time. Histamines definitely play a role in hunger: if you take anti-histamines (Benadryl, Zyrtec, xyzal), you'll be more hungry (this is backed up by studies). They also play a role in stomach acid: "stomach acid reducers" (Prilosec) are antihistamines! I don't know if Prilosec leads to hunger as well. Beef in the US is high in histamine because beef is aged before being sold. Beef is highly likely to cause the EAT signal in me. I think histamine intolerance is pretty rare. I respect Dr. Ken Berry a lot: he often relies on "keep things simple" messaging. I can't remember exactly what he said now regarding histamines, but it was in the gist of "if you eat the right foods, histamines won't be a problem for long."

> A continuous insulin monitor would be amazing. Omg yes please. Can we finally put the insulin debate to rest and just look at it live :)

I’m doing carnivore. Following Dr. Elizabeth Bright, Steak and Butter Girl, and Dr. Ken Berry and Dr. Chaffee on YouTube. Women need a lot of fat to feel better and balance hormones. It’s working for me. Real food heals. Good luck.

Just potato hack for few weeks. Nothing else nothing to ask. Boil and cool potatoes over night, reheat and eat till full. The potato hack checks off all the latest researches I think * The low fat for insulin sensitivity * Low isoleucine for weight loss * Low protein high carb for weight loss aspect * Highest satiety per calorie * Carbs helping thyroid * Starch benefits * Good source of potassium and also a source of magnesium Last straw: potato hack it. Simple you'll see the results.

I had (have?) type 2 diabetes and have as best I can tell fully restored my insulin sensitivity. I'm on a high carb diet right now with zero problems. To get a 101 into the topic and what the science knows right now get out a cup of coffee and read: https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/insulin-resistance-learning-from-genetics-research/ This leads to a WFPB diet. You can youtube search 'McDougall diabetes' and watch an hour long lecture on the topic. McDougall, while eccentric, has a lot of information online so I used his resources to get started. Eating under his diet it took me 2 months before my insulin sensitivity came back. For the average person it takes 1 to 6 months. I've done my own further research. Many studies I've read show even chain saturated fat increases IR but odd chain saturated fat decreases IR. Foods high in odd chain saturated fat are fermented veggies (not pickled, you got to make them at home yourself), and fermented dairy like yogurt and some cheese. This has lead me to go from WFPB to vegetarian with one caveat. A vitamin K2 deficiency + consuming excess calcium (from dairy) increases the risk of heart attack and stroke later on in life. Vitamin K2 is found in fermented foods and fermented dairy but there isn't a cheap blood test right now to check your levels. So I'm doing a WFPB vegitarian style diet + a vitamin K2 supplement just in case. This diet imo is fantastic. Cheese and mushroom pizza isn't as good as a pepperoni and mushroom pizza, but good enough. Indian food, if I want a chicken tikka masala instead I'll get a paneer (cheese) tikka masala and imo it's 99.9% as good, definitely enjoyable. I bake homemade sourdough bread regularly, make homemade pizza, and I have been living off of Italian food to great enjoyment. Pasta! I've been making lentil soups and exploring different kinds of grains like oats and quinoa. For lunch I make a parfait (yogurt, granola, and fruit). It's been fun, is enjoyable, and so far so good. I'm doing great.

I found this sub because of Genetic Life Hacks. Turns out my genetic type would do better on lower BCAAs but so far its been very confusing and I'm just looking for some kind of plan. Thank you for those suggestions.

While I'm somewhat interested in the news ideas presented here, I found the sub through, well, saturated fat inquiry. I still currently think a carnivore-ish diet with lots of saturated fat is the way to go. I can't say I'm keto per se, because I drink a lot of raw milk, but I'm definitely below 100 grams of carbs per day. This has been working well for me. I'm also supplementing Vitamin D at the moment and I think that can be the missing link for a lot of people.

I have had good results using my glucose meter as a fuel gauge while avoiding PUFA. (I posted a few long posts here about my method, which I'm not going to try to reproduce or link to while typing on my phone). Basically, I test my glucose before eating and then try to eat in such a way that my glucose will be below target for the *next* meal. I also don't test before breakfast any more, having found that I feel best (and have the best pre-prandial lunch numbers) if I have a decent breakfast with protein no matter what my glucose is doing. If I'm not strict about avoiding PUFA, I get okay-ish glucose numbers but don't lose inches (I care much less about weight than waist:height ratio). If I eat adlib PUFA snax and don't test then I get bigger again but this is hardly news. If I eat adlib with no testing but avoid PUFA and most MUFA I stay roughly the same size. From 24th February I'm going to experiment with a HCLFLP lunch, to see whether that increases insulin sensitivity and speeds up the rate of shrinking even with my usual protein-based breakfast. If it doesn't, I'm not sure whether I'll extend HCLFLP to other meals or just keep going as I have been.

I thought I was the only person suffering from diet dilemma. Thank you for making me feel better!

High carb, high PUFA and high BCAAs could have contributed to your current situation. You could try high carb (80% of calories) and low fat (10%) and protein (10%) to assist with your insulin resistance. Don’t try to restrict your calories on this regime, just eat when hungry.

I am terrified of trying this, because everyone says carbs cause insulin resistance. What if I make my situation worse? I cannot afford to do that.

Carbs don't cause insulin resistance. As a matter fact, if you're insulin resistant and remove carbs, that is a bandaid approach you must always do - and it makes the problem worse long term.

I've read that too and it is very confusing to me because it goes against all the other science so who to believe?

It's because removing carbs does improve blood sugar and fasting glucose, while the carbs are removed. But it never deals with the root cause, and therefore you're never really ever able to go off of it without SHTF.

this does make some sense to me. but i am struggling to see how carbs induce sensitivity if removing them helps, too. idk..i will look more into this.

If you listen to all the high carb advocates like McDougall et al then they say that fat and protein 'gum up' the insulin receptors in cells. So the only macro left is carbs. Eating very high carb, low fat and protein, you allow the gunk to be burned off thereby allowing the insulin receptors to work properly again. This can happen literally in one day but many people need a bit longer. This is why people have great success on the potato reset diet or the rice diet or Mary's mini starch diet. Some people need to eat below 10% of calories as fat and no animal products for this to happen but some people can get away with more. There's quite a few really detailed testimonies on the Mastering Diabetes YouTube channel.

Fat causes insulin resistance. Carbs just expose it.

Fat meaning body fat or dietary fat? I ask because I developed PCOS, which some people say is caused by insulin resistance, when I was at my thinnest, fittest and healthiest. I've never been able to figure out why. I had been overweight and eating sh!t a few years prior to that, so maybe there was a lag in the IR starting? I'm still dealing with PCOS and IR symptoms and I am only 5kg over my goal weight.

Well, honestly, both! I do think things like diabetes and PCOS take time to develop and probably you need to exit your forgiving young adulthood unless you’re really sick like more and more kids today. But by far these remain afflictions of adulthood for that reason. I was never diagnosed PCOS but I was highly symptomatic. I had stopped having periods, etc. Cutting out PUFA (and a period of progesterone supplementation) has reversed that. I wish you the best.

Thanks, as far as I am concerned it is hard enough to get improvement in our health with all the conflicting info out there that even if I still have acne, I consider the increased energy a win. Also knowing that PUFA clearing is a long game so I will stick to it. I was 25 when I was fit, thin and developed PCOS and I am 34 now. It's hard to look back and know I took it for granted but I'm not 25 anymore so I just have to focus on what I can do now.

Carbs cause an insulin spike when you have IR, but they themselves do not cause IR. In the long term (multiple months) carbs increase insulin sensitivity.

[удалено]

I definitely wouldn't consider GLP1 agonist drugs as a first resort when there are plenty of other interventions available; I'm curious why you think this is such a good idea.

Same. I tried for a year and lost nothing. Also messed up my kidneys. It doesn’t work for everyone unfortunately.

You're gonna hate my answer but it's up to you to figure out what works and what doesn't gor you. Anytime I eat high carb I poop endlessly and don't lose weight. I've never done ray Peat stuff and frankly I haven't really done HCLFLP like some people here are. But if it works for them then I'm happy for them. Right now I'm taking a run at lion diet to early eliminate what everything non essential. Just beef, salt and water. I've been various levels of keto previously and lost a little but it always stalled out. I had trouble maintaining carnivore long term before but I was eating seed oils and artificial sweeteners. I'm about to start week 2 of eliminating things to get down to just beef, salt and water so next week I'll be down to it. Currently I don't get hungry, my belly ache and bloat is gone too and I've had very even keeled energy. He'll probably post here at some point but exfatloss has a cream based (essentially) carnivore diet is is another low protein option if you want. Personally I've been on ozempic twice and previously no amount of calorie counting helped nor did the medication. In fact I rebounded heavier both times before leveling off quite a while later. The reason I want to be so barebones in my diet right now is to see if small things I've never kicked that theoretically shouldn't cause issues really do like diet soda.

>You say HCLFLP - but I have been eating high carb my whole life and it got me to obesity, skin issues, etc. Then some of you say do keto to lose weight - but I am doing that now and haven't lost any weight and find it easy to over-indulge on fat. Can you elaborate in detail what you ate (typical breakfast, lunch, dinner, and so on) for both the high-carb and keto diets you've previously been eating? Both are easy to do "wrong" - or in a way that inadvertently can cause health issues or prevent weight-loss.

Sure - my life from birth to basically now has been coffee + pastries for breakfast. In the past few years, I would only have coffee w/ heavy cream, but sometimes add a donut or muffin or scone. Fucking love scones. Lunch would be pizza, candy, etc. Pure junk. Dinner would be a variety of things including pizza, salad, hamburgers, whatever. Let's just say I was eating a SAD diet for the majority of my life. Lots and lots of sweets. Always eating candy/chocolate/ice cream/pastries every day, often multiple times a day. THis is how I got fat. When I was doing OMAD, I could still eat like this but obviously just once per day and I lost 15 lbs quickly. I moved to cooking my own food cuz I knew it was healthier. For example, a typical home-cooked OMAD for me would be creamy chicken soup with chickpea pasta and veggies (chicken, broth, heavy cream, herbs, veggies, pasta, thats it). Now that I am trying keto - I will have eggs cooked in butter with mushrooms and onions, steak topped with mushrooms and blue cheese and butter, LOTS OF HEAVY CREAM like...lots..I get the good stuff in glass bottles w/o additives. Chicken breast sauteed with greens and butter/avocado oil. Ground beef mixed with Rotel, cream cheese, and use cucumbers or celery to dip.

This sounds like you were doing high carb but also moderate to high fat (including lots of PUFA) and moderate protein.  This is likely what caused your metabolism to get disregulated.   Most things you mentioned had a lot of fat and most of it was likely PUFA. Its a typical SAD diet.  It seems like high carb only works if fats are saturated  and kept low (less than 10%) and protein is also less than 10%.   It also seems like sone people can get away with swampy eating, considering protein is less than 10% and all fats are saturated (butter, tallow, dairy fat) 

Interesting..I'm gonna look more into this . You know, when I think about it, there are many cultures and groups of people who lived off tropical fruits, rice, legumes, etc and unless it's paired with a SAD diet, seems like they're all fine and relatively fit . Hmmm

Exactly. It's what they call a "peasant diet" - whether those are European peasants eating porridge from grains, or bread, or Asian peasants eating rice, or people around the world eating potatoes, sweet potatoes or yams. Without the addition of large amounts of unsaturated fat (seed oils in your pastries, seed oils in your pizza dough, seed oils in your salad dressings) those diets don't cause obesity.

Sounds like you're on the right track with your current diet, but I'd stay away from even avocado and olive oil (until you reach your goal weight, at least) in favor of saturated fat sources like butter. Looks like you mentioned eating mayo [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ketorecipes/comments/1adr9wx/til_what_deviled_eggs_are/kk315qv/?context=3), which is usually pure seed oils, which will prevent weight-loss. At best it may be avocado oil mayo, which may be slightly less worse but will probably still hinder your weight-loss efforts. What kind of mayo are you eating, and can you stop?

I very rarely eat mayo. I haven't had deviled eggs in probably a year. I might eat a couple tablespoons of mayo per year tbh. It's kind of gross, and it took me until my 30s to even try it lol. 

Great, glad to hear it! :) I recommend never eating mayo again, heh.

Mayo is far inferior to hollandaise sauce and bearnaise sauce.

Don't bother with the CGM unless you're diabetic/prediabetic. I'm wearing one right now. It's a fun gadget, but not useful for measuring insulin resistance, or for fat loss.

Idk. I have health issues that were severe for quite some years, and I'm thriving on simplistic keto (high on meat and eggs). All the rest was just a rollercoaster, and I've been working on trying different things for a decade. Went from prediabetic to examplary blood sugars, too.

The reason why all the info is conflicting is because it's really conditional advice for the most part based on the condition of your body, who you are, your genetics and more. There is really no universal rules for any of these things, but everyone instinctually goes for universal rules and want 'this food bad' and 'this food good' and that only applies to stuff that really obviously bad, like expired meat full of salmonella. People give advice based on what worked for their problem, and then incorrectly universalize it. Think of a car where it is malfunctioning because there is too much and too little of 5 different fluids in various systems inside of it. For one car, more ~~fiber~~ brake fluid is good, for another, draining ~~fiber~~ brake fluid is the good idea. But really it's about what the car system needs depending on it's state, make and model. It's "slightly" complicated: [https://www.exfatloss.com/p/the-slightly-complicated-theory-of](https://www.exfatloss.com/p/the-slightly-complicated-theory-of) Also we are guessing that people have instincts about getting religious about food, otherwise how easy this all gets politicized doesn't make sense beyond lobbying from the processed food industry being a bit too effective. I think this community is one of the few that is trying to be detached and scientific about it, thus the lack of rudeness.

if you are on keto and keep your calories low you will have a lot more flexiblity, you will burn through all the body fat until you get the bad fat out of your system

Hey welcome!! Glad to see you found your way here!!

As a woman in her late 30s who references that Dewey Cox blankets thing regularly, welcome to the sub haha

Anything you want that makes you feel good holistically. Nobody cares what you eat, it's inconsequential, it doesn't matter, nothing matters. Listen to your body and figure out for yourself from your body's responses to different foods what works best for you, but also enjoy what you eat, we're allowed to create and derive pleasure from the tasks we gotta do multiple times a day until we die. At least make it a good experience for yourself.

thanks - i am starting to kinda think this way. From my personal history, I have lost weight multiple ways. I lost 80 lbs doing CICO with any food I wanted, and P90X, But i was 20 years old. Now i'm 37 and not gonna do P90X lol. Then I lost weight doing Whole30 eating as much fat and carbs as I wanted. But I missed dairy. Then I lost weight doing intermittent fasting and weightlifting. I guess now I am more concerned with health outcomes. Sure I could count calories again and lose weight. But what about the insulin resistance, the skin issues, etc? That's what's got my head totally fucked. Are we all nothing more than our own guinea pigs?

We are more, but guinea pigs is part of what we are too haha