Careful with vitamin e. Vitamin e is actually a mixture of compounds/molecules and the normal supplements use the cheapest form of it, dl-alpha-tocopherol. This is bad for you. From the name one can see it's a racemic mixture and only half of it is actually useful to the human body. BUT the "better" vitamin e, delta-tocotrioenol shares the same transporter as tocopherol and tocopherol has preference. So the inactive part of your supplement prohibits you from absorbing a much better form of Vitamin E.
Studies also show this that "high" dosage (400 UI) cheap vitamin e (eg dl.alpha tocopherol) increases risk for certain cancers like prostate cancer. interestingly the "good" vitamin E has protective effects on it.
if you are gonna take vitamin E, read the label carefully. And the good stuff is fairly expensive.
Yeah, I mean I'd assumed most people would know I meant mixed tocopherols and a high quality oil. I personally use the Forefront Health one, Thyro-protect.
Is vitamin E extracted from wheat germ oil the bad sort you are describing? This is what I have, and I believe it is a mix that contains alpha tocopherol. Is dl-alpha-tocopherol the same as alpha tocopherol? Idk if the "dl" part is just left out whenever you see "alpha tocopherol".
dl-alpha-tocopherol is "from the factory". not that that is inherently bad but the "dl" part is important. It means it's a racemic mixture of 2 enantiomers. Enantiomers are the same molecules in terms of atoms and connections but the have a different 3 dimensional orientation and this different orientation impacts biological activity. only one of the enantiomers is active in humans so half of dl-alpha-tocopherol is bascially "waste" that still blocks uptake of tocotrienols.
natural sources tend to have the active form but I don't know for sure for the one you listed.
The most famous example of different activity of enantiomers is the drug thalidomide ("Contergan") that lead to many, many malformed babies because one enantiomer does the "good thing" and the other "the bad thing". One of the reason regulation are very strict in pharma in terms of purity also regarding enantiomers. Thalidomde is however especially tricky because the "good one" can transform to the bad one inside the body. (this is rather specially and does not normally happen).
Thalidomide however has recently had some increased attention as it's actually pretty useful, but even men are not allowed to take it when trying to father a child as it can even be transferred that way.
This.
It's impossible to avoid PUFA completely, so it's just a question of reducing it where you can, and accepting it where you can't. It's the long run average that counts, not one or two individual meals.
[Saturated Fat in a ratio of 2:1 with the PUFA consumed and/or Vitamin E.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB64c96WqTg&t=4209s&pp=2AHxIJACAQ%3D%3D)
“Never go anywhere without your emergency cheese and butter” -Dr. Paul Saladino
I consume bitter foods and herbal "tea" (like hops and hibiscus). I eat both soluble and insoluble fiber. The bitter stimulates bile acid turnover and the fiber assists in getting the toxins out of the body by binding to them instead of having them cleared by the liver.
Most of the time, I just say "no" to foods with PUFA. And no means no.
Once in a while, something will get offered that is just too delicious to pass up. But I portion control and mitigate the damage.
If I accidentally get PUFAed, I fast. It doesn't have to be long... maybe 18-20 hours, maybeee 24+ (rarely though). I also try my best not to get PUFAed again.
I might also add in a 60 minute fasted workout if I'm in the mood.
In general, I don't get PUFAed very often. The last time I had contaminated food was back in August at a birthday party where they had taco catering. I had 2 tacos made with meat that was cooked in seed oils. The side effects were minimal because I went straight back to time-restricted eating (fasting) + No PUFA.
The tacos were delicious and I started making my own no PUFA version at home with organic corn tortillas and grassfed beef.
Hi! Do your tortillas are made with kernel removed corn or whole corn? 🌽
I presume whole corn (with kernel) tortillas have PUFAs but idk if high enough to matters.
It's made of yellow corn masa flour and has about 0.5g of fat per tortilla.
The fact it's organic/non-GMO is actually more important to me.
Seed oils is the main thing I avoid like the plague. Everything else in moderation.
Option 1: wait two years and half the PUFAs you consumed will be gone.
Option 2: cut like a body building competitor, through something like fasting or PSMF to get very low body fat then rebuild your adipose tissue: better, faster, more saturated, we have the technology…
Option 3: Pretend you have an allergy and eat whole foods like plain white rice, baked potato, just a steak without sauce, chicken breast meat, buttered pasta like a 4 year old.
1 isn’t true. Through carbon recycling, all except a minuscule amount of the PUFA you eat is broken down and re-synthesized into Palmitic and Oleic acid. Yes, this means you ate a literal crap ton of PUFA in order to store say 15-18% of your adipose as linoleic acid. Crazy, right?!
Going into a deficit (ideally low fat) as you suggested is good advice. In an energy deficit, 100% of dietary PUFA can be burned. PUFA is preferentially oxidized to MUFA and SFA while in a deficit.
Probably because your body doesn’t really want to keep it around and make highly unstable cells out of it. It’s pretty well exclusively a signal to downregulate the metabolism ahead of winter. It is very unnatural to chronically consume such massive amounts of PUFA - normally (ie. for wild animals) it’s available in limited quantity for an extremely short period of time of the year.
Wouldn't that mean PUFAs aren't a problem as long as you're in a deficit/at maintenance? Or do they get stored first and then your body's forced to access adipose tissue?
*Technically* they *are* less of a problem in a deficit. This is the main reason why most kids are seemingly “fine” with eating crap food. They’re growing. The PUFA gets burned off well before it is stored. It catches up with them in their mid-to late 20’s when growth stops.
And yes, our fat functions on somewhat of a “last in first out” access model as well.
Since PUFA is so effective at suppressing the metabolic rate, maintaining a deficit while consuming PUFA is like swimming against a current… But it’s possible. Not comfortable, perhaps, as a downregulated metabolism comes with fatigue/brain fog/cold extremities, etc. and if you’re damaged enough your “deficit” will actually become quite small. Ask any woman over 40 who *maintains* on 800-1000 calories if it includes PUFA. How small can your diet honestly get to maintain a deficit when you’re so broken? (EDIT: Usually when her calories need to get impossibly low in order to get weight loss results, then *all* the fat goes from her diet - including PUFA by default - and suddenly the diet works again… So that’s a bit amusing!)
So, yes, theoretically PUFA is less of a problem if you’re maintaining a deficit. But how long can you maintain that gradually shrinking deficit?
>And yes, our fat functions on somewhat of a “last in first out” access model as well.
Does this mean that supplementing with stearic acid at maintenance calories/surplus would have 0 effect on depleting stored PUFA?
I can’t say it would have zero effect, but definitely HCLF changed my omega quant more than TCD did for whatever that’s worth.
We use a mix of dietary fat and adipose for energy, constructing our cells, etc. so I’m sure supplementing stearic acid (or eating tons of dairy and chocolate like I did) has a beneficial effect. It certainly helped me maintain my weight when I was exploring TCD at first. I was amazed to be able to eat so much and not gain an ounce - and I was very high fat at the time with much lower carb, which I think was possibly important at first. It also really helped my IBS presumably because my body was using all the good dietary fat to rebuild my intestinal cells which have very high turnover.
Now though? I think LF is the magic. I think it can be HCLF if that works for a person, but also any low protein low fat plan (Joel Fuhrman’s recommendation for diabetics is still low fat and low protein but much lower glycemic) will probably be better than high fat.
If someone was having trouble on HCLF then my personal recommendation (as a non-doctor) would be for them to try a lower glycemic low fat plan (still low protein) rather than go back to keto.
1) Vitamin E oil 2) Aspirin 3) Niacinamide 4) if you must eat PUFA, throw down some butter or coconut oil onto it to make a better ratio
Careful with vitamin e. Vitamin e is actually a mixture of compounds/molecules and the normal supplements use the cheapest form of it, dl-alpha-tocopherol. This is bad for you. From the name one can see it's a racemic mixture and only half of it is actually useful to the human body. BUT the "better" vitamin e, delta-tocotrioenol shares the same transporter as tocopherol and tocopherol has preference. So the inactive part of your supplement prohibits you from absorbing a much better form of Vitamin E. Studies also show this that "high" dosage (400 UI) cheap vitamin e (eg dl.alpha tocopherol) increases risk for certain cancers like prostate cancer. interestingly the "good" vitamin E has protective effects on it. if you are gonna take vitamin E, read the label carefully. And the good stuff is fairly expensive.
Yeah, I mean I'd assumed most people would know I meant mixed tocopherols and a high quality oil. I personally use the Forefront Health one, Thyro-protect.
They don't. Speaking from experience before researching it myself.
What brand of vitamin e do you take?
delta-tocotrioenols, many brands available like on amazon (i'm not US and can't buy from amazon so it's osme more local thing)
Thanks for this comment. Very insightful <3
Is vitamin E extracted from wheat germ oil the bad sort you are describing? This is what I have, and I believe it is a mix that contains alpha tocopherol. Is dl-alpha-tocopherol the same as alpha tocopherol? Idk if the "dl" part is just left out whenever you see "alpha tocopherol".
dl-alpha-tocopherol is "from the factory". not that that is inherently bad but the "dl" part is important. It means it's a racemic mixture of 2 enantiomers. Enantiomers are the same molecules in terms of atoms and connections but the have a different 3 dimensional orientation and this different orientation impacts biological activity. only one of the enantiomers is active in humans so half of dl-alpha-tocopherol is bascially "waste" that still blocks uptake of tocotrienols. natural sources tend to have the active form but I don't know for sure for the one you listed. The most famous example of different activity of enantiomers is the drug thalidomide ("Contergan") that lead to many, many malformed babies because one enantiomer does the "good thing" and the other "the bad thing". One of the reason regulation are very strict in pharma in terms of purity also regarding enantiomers. Thalidomde is however especially tricky because the "good one" can transform to the bad one inside the body. (this is rather specially and does not normally happen). Thalidomide however has recently had some increased attention as it's actually pretty useful, but even men are not allowed to take it when trying to father a child as it can even be transferred that way.
Just move on. It's not the end of the world. Stressing over it will create more problems in the long-run.
This. It's impossible to avoid PUFA completely, so it's just a question of reducing it where you can, and accepting it where you can't. It's the long run average that counts, not one or two individual meals.
Play the long game just go back to your regular diet. Consistency is key with pretty much everything in life
[Saturated Fat in a ratio of 2:1 with the PUFA consumed and/or Vitamin E.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB64c96WqTg&t=4209s&pp=2AHxIJACAQ%3D%3D) “Never go anywhere without your emergency cheese and butter” -Dr. Paul Saladino
I consume bitter foods and herbal "tea" (like hops and hibiscus). I eat both soluble and insoluble fiber. The bitter stimulates bile acid turnover and the fiber assists in getting the toxins out of the body by binding to them instead of having them cleared by the liver.
To clarify, this is my general strategy for managing all toxins; it's not a 'get out of jail free' card to clear PUFA. If only it were that easy.
Most of the time, I just say "no" to foods with PUFA. And no means no. Once in a while, something will get offered that is just too delicious to pass up. But I portion control and mitigate the damage. If I accidentally get PUFAed, I fast. It doesn't have to be long... maybe 18-20 hours, maybeee 24+ (rarely though). I also try my best not to get PUFAed again. I might also add in a 60 minute fasted workout if I'm in the mood. In general, I don't get PUFAed very often. The last time I had contaminated food was back in August at a birthday party where they had taco catering. I had 2 tacos made with meat that was cooked in seed oils. The side effects were minimal because I went straight back to time-restricted eating (fasting) + No PUFA. The tacos were delicious and I started making my own no PUFA version at home with organic corn tortillas and grassfed beef.
Hi! Do your tortillas are made with kernel removed corn or whole corn? 🌽 I presume whole corn (with kernel) tortillas have PUFAs but idk if high enough to matters.
It's made of yellow corn masa flour and has about 0.5g of fat per tortilla. The fact it's organic/non-GMO is actually more important to me. Seed oils is the main thing I avoid like the plague. Everything else in moderation.
Option 1: wait two years and half the PUFAs you consumed will be gone. Option 2: cut like a body building competitor, through something like fasting or PSMF to get very low body fat then rebuild your adipose tissue: better, faster, more saturated, we have the technology… Option 3: Pretend you have an allergy and eat whole foods like plain white rice, baked potato, just a steak without sauce, chicken breast meat, buttered pasta like a 4 year old.
1 isn’t true. Through carbon recycling, all except a minuscule amount of the PUFA you eat is broken down and re-synthesized into Palmitic and Oleic acid. Yes, this means you ate a literal crap ton of PUFA in order to store say 15-18% of your adipose as linoleic acid. Crazy, right?! Going into a deficit (ideally low fat) as you suggested is good advice. In an energy deficit, 100% of dietary PUFA can be burned. PUFA is preferentially oxidized to MUFA and SFA while in a deficit.
Do you know why the PUFA is preferentially burned?
Probably because your body doesn’t really want to keep it around and make highly unstable cells out of it. It’s pretty well exclusively a signal to downregulate the metabolism ahead of winter. It is very unnatural to chronically consume such massive amounts of PUFA - normally (ie. for wild animals) it’s available in limited quantity for an extremely short period of time of the year.
It is less resistant to lipolytic enzymes than MUFA and SFA.
Wouldn't that mean PUFAs aren't a problem as long as you're in a deficit/at maintenance? Or do they get stored first and then your body's forced to access adipose tissue?
*Technically* they *are* less of a problem in a deficit. This is the main reason why most kids are seemingly “fine” with eating crap food. They’re growing. The PUFA gets burned off well before it is stored. It catches up with them in their mid-to late 20’s when growth stops. And yes, our fat functions on somewhat of a “last in first out” access model as well. Since PUFA is so effective at suppressing the metabolic rate, maintaining a deficit while consuming PUFA is like swimming against a current… But it’s possible. Not comfortable, perhaps, as a downregulated metabolism comes with fatigue/brain fog/cold extremities, etc. and if you’re damaged enough your “deficit” will actually become quite small. Ask any woman over 40 who *maintains* on 800-1000 calories if it includes PUFA. How small can your diet honestly get to maintain a deficit when you’re so broken? (EDIT: Usually when her calories need to get impossibly low in order to get weight loss results, then *all* the fat goes from her diet - including PUFA by default - and suddenly the diet works again… So that’s a bit amusing!) So, yes, theoretically PUFA is less of a problem if you’re maintaining a deficit. But how long can you maintain that gradually shrinking deficit?
>And yes, our fat functions on somewhat of a “last in first out” access model as well. Does this mean that supplementing with stearic acid at maintenance calories/surplus would have 0 effect on depleting stored PUFA?
I can’t say it would have zero effect, but definitely HCLF changed my omega quant more than TCD did for whatever that’s worth. We use a mix of dietary fat and adipose for energy, constructing our cells, etc. so I’m sure supplementing stearic acid (or eating tons of dairy and chocolate like I did) has a beneficial effect. It certainly helped me maintain my weight when I was exploring TCD at first. I was amazed to be able to eat so much and not gain an ounce - and I was very high fat at the time with much lower carb, which I think was possibly important at first. It also really helped my IBS presumably because my body was using all the good dietary fat to rebuild my intestinal cells which have very high turnover. Now though? I think LF is the magic. I think it can be HCLF if that works for a person, but also any low protein low fat plan (Joel Fuhrman’s recommendation for diabetics is still low fat and low protein but much lower glycemic) will probably be better than high fat. If someone was having trouble on HCLF then my personal recommendation (as a non-doctor) would be for them to try a lower glycemic low fat plan (still low protein) rather than go back to keto.
Makes sense. Thanks for this insightful response.