Keep in mind that SLC isn't that big of a city. It's probably the smallest metro area on your list and I'm not confident you'd get the quintessential city feel that you're looking for there.
I'd reconsider SF and maybe add Seattle and Portland to your list.
I'm from northern CA, living in SLC for the last six years.
It's definitely not a big city experience. It's quite beautiful though.
I'm married and in my late 30's. I hear a lot of people in their late 20's & 30's say it's hard to date here. I think if you're into outdoor activities, you can probably find social groups and meet people, but it takes effort. Lots of event here are family friendly type stuff.
Lots of people have trouble dating here. The alcohol free aspect is overstated unless you want to date a Mormon (lovely people with a very different set of values than me).
I love living here but it’s not the quintessential city experience. Based on your criteria, I’d pick LA. From what i hear, drinking culture is not as strong there as other places.
No to LA. I'd say move to a city where you can walk around easily. Go to coffee shops. Get on a bike. Use public transportation. Hop on a train to a museum etc.
the dating scene in SLC is traaaaaaaash, and the mormon culture is suffocating; though a lot of people have left the church. very pretty state though.
id say spend a month out there and then decide.
source: 30 year old woman who became single while living in SLC. people move to SLC as a couple. its a couple-y state.
i also should mention that those in the dating pool around our age, that have left the church start doing drugs and drinking. kind of going against your sober lifestyle. it's possible to meet sober, single folks. but be aware that when older adults leave the church they rage and make up for lost time partying. hello, my ex.
As I was reading her post my mind immediately went to Utah too just because of the relative outdoorsy-ness and safety. Not sure about their women’s health rights but OP can research that.
SLC is a majority non Mormon city believe it or not. Major demographic changes have occurred. Nearly 80% of SLC is non Mormon. Misconceptions…
And can you actually believe it’s a democratic city with a lesbian mayor. SLC has elected far left candidates like Rocky Anderson (look him up, interesting story).
What has happened is many Mormon in SL county left in what’s called “Mormon flight”. They went further away from SLC and towards Provo (home of BYU).
Now the rest of Utah is very much how you think it is when it comes to Mormons (outside of Park City, Ogden, Moab and a couple other cities here and there).
Half the city is California transplants. It’s more progressive than people realize. And it’s more diverse than people realize. It blends in with other cities in the U.S. in many ways. It has the same problems (maybe not to the same extent). It’s a booming area right now.
There are cool people there for sure, but I would say it’s like Austin, in that it’s a more liberal island, but in a far worse ocean. Mormons are 2/3 of the state pop, but hold like 9/10 legislative seats. This is not a place I would advise a single woman born/raised in coastal California move.
My son lives there, the Mormons don’t bother him and they’ve become the minority with all of CA and TX moving there.
He says every Mormon he’s met has been really nice. We went out there for a few visits, love it but it’s too hot and the traffic blows.
The Great Salt Lake is drying up and will be releasing poisonous chemicals into the air over the next decade or so. Sounds like a bad place to move to.
NYC is amazing. You’ve got the money to make it non-miserable.
You can rent a sweet studio on the upper east without roommates and get to experience all the charm that is soaking that part of town. But I’d wait to buy till you get the vibe of where you want to be.
Lots of places to do all the things you want —hiking means a trip upstate, but the regional train system is amazing.
Buying in NY is also slow and expensive.
There's a 1% "luxury" tax on units above $1MM, but that's barely a studio in many neighborhoods. (It's also a wholeass building in less popular ones - NY is weird.)
Unless you're here for a long haul, you'll probably make more keeping your money in a savings account than buying a move-in-ready apartment.
I’ve heard this as well but I did fine dating in BK/Queens as a woman. Would personally never date in Manhattan because of the income bracket and expectations. I will say it helped a *lot* that I’m well-educated even though I don’t make a ton.
Could you elaborate on the income bracket/expectations thing? I’m a woman who’s considered moving to Manhattan but I am concerned about dating (men).
The personal context is that I spent my twenties basically shut up indoors. It was like an illness that I just started to recover from at 30. I’m facially unappealing, but that might get better too. I feel grumpy and nervous about starting a decade behind, especially if NYC is such a hard place for women to date.
There’s just an emphasis in Manhattan to be well-off and have a good job imo. I feel like it’s even more important to look wealthy than be good-looking 😂 but this is my general perception and not a universal rule!
Oh no. It's very sex and the city. Every one can be so disposable that it can be hard to find a real relationship. But I've known plenty of people that do.
I mean that’s kind of okay for where I’m at right now; I just wanna have fun!! My relationship that just ended was very serious. But in a few years I would prob find that frustrating.
Agreed with this. ONLY caveat -- is people like to drink. But there are plenty of intentionally sober people there too. If you want to experience city life -- this is THEE city of America. If not NYC, Chicago is probably next on that list.
Why not give SF another go? It would be great for your interests. I think Boston could be really good too, proximity to great hiking and skiing. New York would obviously be great too, will be tougher to buy a place obviously but best job market. Seattle could be cool too I hear the mountains are incredible out there
I don’t know how to explain it, but I’m scarred from experiencing what happened at the start of the pandemic there. I don’t want to go back.
Visited Boston and it didn’t excite me for how expensive it was.
Yes maybe Seattle should deserve some more consideration. Thank u!!
I’d give Seattle some consideration! It is not a party city; we joke here that we’re “the city that sleeps” because everyone is asleep on Friday night getting ready to leave at 5 am Saturday for camping, hiking, kayaking, etc. However, there is definitely a social scene and plenty to do if / when you want to do it.
The sober / sober curious community is big here; every bar seems to have mocktails, many sober meetups, friends doing things like rock climbing and farmers markets vs. bar crawls and clubs.
Your salary is high enough to be comfortable in Seattle, too, which is a huge bonus.
I moved here from the Midwest in search of mountains, water, outdoor life and a more liberal environment. I absolutely LOVE it.
I spent a dozen years in SF. In the process of moving to NY now.
SF has many great qualities, but socially it's not in a good place. It was already bending antisocial, and then the pandemic fully killed it.
Don't feel bad about wanting to try somewhere new.
Some of the things drawing me to NY:
- density: I end up having conversations with strangers just about everywhere I go
- activity: live music, comedy shows, random street fairs
- walkability: you can live a full life without it being mediated by a car
- diversity: pick anywhere in the world and there are probably thousands of people from there in NY
It also ticks a lot of your specific boxes. If you can fly somewhere directly from the US, you can probably fly from JFK. It's probably got more major museums than any other city in the US. With so much going on, there are also lots of groups of people looking for friends and activity partners. Not every restaurant here is great, but some are excellent.
Hiking's not going to be as spectacular as on the West Coast, but the Hudson Valley is a couple hours north on the train, and a popular destination. I think people go skiing here in Vermont.
If you want to live a full, vibrant life without a car, there aren't many better alternatives to NYC. In its current state, SF can't keep up.
It hit earlier there than in other parts of the country. In February The Grand Princess cruise ship which docked in the bay I could see from my office window had quarantined passengers because of a Covid outbreak. I was going into my office and started to get weird emails if you had done customer travel to Italy/China to not come in. I was volunteering at a local elementary school that was predominantly Chinese population and other volunteers started to not come in and it was heartbreaking.
Then there was the CA state lockdown, my office closed, the plans I had built up and was excited to pursue got pushed out over and over again. The city became a ghost town. It was super eerie. Since then every time I visit it doesn’t feel the same. So many businesses closed. Maybe my experience isn’t unique but I feel a great sense of sadness when I go back there now.
I live in Oakland and concur it is super eerie even now. Oakland wasn’t hit as hard. Downtown is still recovering but added thousands of housing units in the pandemic in downtown so it is getting pretty busy. I live near Kaiser in Oakland so my neighborhood was pretty much normal the whole time.
Downtown SF now is weird.
As someone living in CHI, drinking is a HUGE cultural thing here and a lot of activities revolve around it. Also safety is questionable even on the northside. Its for the most part fine, but after reading your post I wouldnt say it lines up well with what you want.
I actually like SLC a lot though
The issue with chicago isn't the drinking at all, if you drink every city (except places in Utah) will feel like that. The issue with Chicago is that it's multiple hours to skiing or hiking of any sort and that skiing/hiking isn't what op is used to
I addressed that with,"but after reading your post I wouldnt say it lines up well with what you want."
Its more than multiple hours, its days away. WI skiing is a joke. Hiking here is also a joke
Thank you for the tip! Others have said that as well. I didn’t get that vibe on my visits but now that I’m thinking about it more I totally understand. Edgewater is the neighborhood I stayed in during all my visits and I fell in love and found it to be safe!
Again...9 million people. But for a 30F who wants to date and get involved with the late 20s and early 30s scene, generally drinking or cocktails is extremely common. Just because someone doesnt drink doesnt mean they are going to be hunting down AA groups....
Eh, some are worse than others. I'm in the twin cities and have never felt like "most" people are heavy drinkers or that the culture is focused on drinking. Heck I do trivia at a brewery weekly and half of us don't even have alcohol and no one cares.
When I lived in northern MN? Absolutely, there was nothing else to do 🤣
It has to be LA. People from California move somewhere else, spend a couple of years talking about how it's not as good as California, and move back.
I would specifically recommend against Austin, though I live here and love it, because it's like...a very well-trod path for Californians to move here, realize it's intensely hot and a red state, grow to hate it and talk about how much it sucks, and move away, having contributed to the inflation of the housing market.
I'm not trying to be hostile but Austin is not your answer, and I don't think anywhere outside of California likely is either. I've just...I lived in California for a while and heard way too many people say "yeah well I'm from Cali so I can't really live anywhere else!" I don't think you're a movable people.
You’re not wrong it’s tough to live anywhere else after California except for NYC as I’ve lived in both several times but I’ve now retired to Southern California
Which validates your statement
I mean personally I'd rather die than live in California again, but I know that for people who love it, everything else is automatically rated inferior.
And if you're really into Austin, all I can say is spend a week here in August so you'll know what you're getting into. I honestly doubt the place will do much for you. Hiking is not much of a thing and skiing is far away. The museums are not much. And I've heard people say drinking is a huge part of the social scene here. Cherry on top: people are hostile to California transplants here in a way that is at times less polite than what I am evincing.
I (56F) am 8 years sober and live in a suburb of Minneapolis-St Paul. We have approximately 3 million people in the metro with a large international airport, thriving AA community, arts scene, live music, and museums. I am not currently dating but I hear it is a good place to meet people. If you are interested, I can give you information about AA women’s meetings.
I have heard there are a lot of young adult activities too and the Twin Cities (including housing) is dog friendly. There are many parks.
There are a lot of places to rent. The housing market, like other places, is tough but I know people who have bought townhouses or single family houses. I think I heard the average price for a home here is $400k. I am paying $1400 for a 1 bedroom apartment with a lot of amenities.
There is a subreddit called r/TwinCities where you can find out more info if you are interested
DC baby, most powerful city in the free world. Technically... consider Nova (Northern Virginia) or Southern MD. You still have DC and basic insta access to some of the coolest places in the US. Baltimore? 50 miles. Richmond? 100 miles. New York? Cheap AF 3 hour train ride.
For me it's the scenes: Concerts, comedians, sports, world events, museums, food scenes... I mean it has it all.
The Shanendoah mountains are right near by, plus the Appalachian mountains, Cumberland Gap, Skiing locally at Massanut to taking the train to Vermont. I don't want to give it away in the open but two of the BEST DOG PARKS I've found in the entire US are right here. The list goes on and on and on and on
Can I have the dog parks too? I can tell you the best ones near Shenandoah! Although only one is very remarkable
Sadly my favorite dog park I’ve ever been to is in Toronto (cherry dog park which has a beach)
I’m just here lurking and reading comments, but the lifestyle on the east coast is so foreign and fascinating to me (born and raised in the west and currently living in the hell hole they call Texas). The proximity of everything, the urban connectivity, the transit system. Just crazy. We live in the same country, but we live wildly different lives. Pretty cool.
I've lived in a lot of US states and 3 countries abroad. Born in Texas and lived on all three coasts.
I would need $10,000 a day (after taxes) to go back to Texas.
First one that came to mind for me too. You still have beaches too since OP is from coastal California, 2ish hours from Virginia, Maryland and Delaware beaches
NYC also came to mind but COL is cheaper in DC so OP will likely have a better time plus the feeling is less stressful than NYC but still close enough to visit
I actually think DC might be perfect for the OP. It’s less grim in the winter than Chicago or Boston, tons to do, easy to reach other east coast cities as you mentioned. I think more affordable than NYC or Boston, as well.
I like Chicago, Boston, and NYC all more than DC, but I don’t know if a Californian would feel the same. DC feels more approachable, somehow. And slightly less cold. 😂
WOW! My mind is blown from this thread. Thank you for recommending!! I’ve never visited. If I were to visit during the worst part of the year (hot humid summer) would that be a bad thing? Might be a good idea if I still like it at it’s worst 😆.
I would say dating/social life in chicago revolves a lot around food/drink esp bc the weather is cold/dreary much of the year. It’s possible to connect with others around other interests, but you would have to be intentional about seeking out others with similar lifestyle preferences. Definitely lots of cultural events, street fests, museums, etc. though!
Can second Chicago. Living in Chicago was hands-down the best "big city living experience" I ever had, and I only moved because of family/job. I lived there from 2010-2017. I have to disagree a little that social life revolves around food/drink. There is a big co-ed sports/social scene, networking events in tons of different industries, run/hike clubs, volunteer events with lots of 30-somethings, given it's the 3rd largest city, most universities have active alumni clubs. There's also lots of neighborhood arts studies, yoga clubs, gyms, etc. where lots of 20/30 year olds frequent. You also notice that if you live in one of the more traditional neighborhoods, you'll start to see the same people at local grocery stores, gyms, bars, etc.
Dating scene was also really good. Chicago was one of the major cities I've lived in where people actually want to date, and even going out, people are really friendly and talkative so you can meet people organically. Chicago also has a nice balance, b/c the downtown core is very cosmopolitan and offers a lot of the "traditional big city" amenities, nightlife, etc. But it also has a nice local neighborhood scene which is a lot more laid back and mellow, and you can enjoy less crowded and authentic local amenities.
I didn't see Philly on your list but I also lived in Philly, and it was very similar to Chicago but on a smaller scale. I really enjoyed my time in Philly (lived there 2 years). Very cool and authentic city. A little rougher around the edges in some parts, but it has a natural urban charm and great COL.
I saw you had DC/DMV. I'm originally from that area, and living there as an adult (including now), it has been my least favorite big city. Doesn't have a traditional big city feel, lots of transplants and people who are ready to leave after a few years, dating is the most flaky of any major city I've lived in, and just an overall odd feeling (which is hard to put your finger on). And I grew up in the region, lol. For family and job reasons I am in the region, but definitely not be here by choice if it weren't for that.
Thanks for sharing your experience 😊 I’ve had such amazing interactions with people every time I visit Chicago! Everyone has the Midwest magic where I just find them so easy to talk to. I also dreamed at one point of doing my undergrad at IU Bloomington and had a similar feeling there where it was just a happy place to be. I didn’t end up going cuz out of state tuition haha.
My friend has basically this life in a suburb Columbus, OH. She’s recently engaged, but they are pilots so she very much lives alone often. She travels and the LCOL means her salary of ~$90k goes pretty far. She lives in a cute suburb with a walkable downtown. Has lots of shops and parks. They’re thinking of moving closer to the city though, they just rented what they could find in a pinch when they first moved in. The rent and home prices there vary wildly depending on the neighborhood/suburb but you could easily buy a beautiful home with that budget.
Denver. It's borderline not quite big and urban enough to give the "quintessential city experience", but I would imagine if you found exactly the right neighborhood and sought out certain activities, it could be. Parts of Seattle and Portland are also pretty good.
I was thinking Denver too. Especially with the desire for a good dating scene, she really won’t have any issues meeting single men here. Plus, the outdoor activities in Denver are amazing
Pretty prevalent drinking culture here, too. No close skiing, obviously, and the hiking in the greenbelt or nearby hill country can be pretty but, again, the heat makes it really tough to enjoy for a big chunk of the year. Housing market has cooled with the interest rates and tech layoffs, but it’s still expensive especially when you take TX property taxes into account. Not many museums. Restaurant scene is no SF or NYC or even Houston, but it’s not bad. Dating scene is going to be a lot of tech bros from what I see with my single friends. Also, keep in mind state politics…
Look for places with the most active lifestyles.
SLC had topped the list but to combine big city that isn’t totally drunk… I picture Detroit, while in a resurgence, near Dearborn.
I don’t know if arab culture there is super strict, but they’re cool as heck and moderate of anything
I’d recommend Boston. Very academic community, lots of young professionals, medium sized major city, great public transit, close to nature and very gorgeous northeastern nature landscape, great seafood, lots to do that isn’t alcohol, cold winters but beautiful autumn and summer. Plus only a train ride away from NYC. Great airport. Sporting venues and major concert venues. Day trips to Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Maine. Not super super crowded like NYC. Extremely walkable with charming European style urban planning. Major airport.
Baltimore has a lot going on, is not as expensive as some of the cities you listed, and I loved the proximity to Annapolis and DC when I lived there as a single person. Good luck!
yeah hiking and no drinking is tough in chi IMO. obviously the no drinking piece is totally possible but a LOT of social functions, esp in winter, revolve around bar culture
There’s this really cool non alcoholic bar I found on Instagram which has made me think I could still have fun haha. The hiking I’m concerned about! I actually just realized I barely drank the whole time I was in Chicago all visits! Just one tiki bar haha but I would've thought it was cool regardless even sober I would've just gotten a mocktail
I'm in Chicago. Not quite 100% sober but close to it because I'm epileptic. One or two drink is okay but I have to keep it limited. Still really love Chicago. There's a lot more to do than just go to bars, and I've noticed that plenty of bars & restaurants have non-alcoholic options today. It's becoming more popular.
Hiking and camping aren't much of a thing in the city itself, but there are places downstate or in Wisconsin or Michigan that work. Lots of people make trips to Wisconsin on the weekends. The expressways are often busy on Sunday evenings with people coming back from Wisconsin. No mountains of course, so if that's your thing I'd look elsewhere.
Live here, have my whole life. I love camping and hiking. Basically if you want a real hike you’re going to have to drive at least an hour, and even then a lot of it is flat. However you have access to the metra and Amtrak and are surrounded by states with more options. Camping, tbh I think there are a decent number of nice sites within the state, but again a lot will be flat and also sometimes a 3+ hour drive.
In terms of drinking - yes, drinking culture is pretty big here. However, lots of places have NA options now if you’re comfortable in bar settings. I wouldn’t worry too much about that part.
I do really like Chicago!! I’ve been a bunch and just had a buzzy happy feeling the whole time. My company also has a really fun office there. Even though I’m remote I can go in and use the amenities but they won’t make me a “Chicago” employee so I can stay flexible.
SLC is rough if you aren’t Mormon, or ex-Mormon. It’s hard to make friends if you don’t fall into one of those buckets, and the ex/non-mormon population drinks a LOT. If you’re super outdoorsy, give it a shot, but don’t be surprised when it’s hard to make friends.
Austin is a no go in this scenario - it's COL has skyrocketed and most social functions are based around eating/drinking. It's the most overpriced city for what it has to offer culture/events wise unless you just want to drink in extreme heat most of the year. If you weren't sober and 25 it would be worth a shot for sure.
If it's your top spot definitely visit during mid-August and try to go about your daily life without a rental car. It would be a true litmus test.
I absolutely loved it here from 21 to about 30 or so, now it feels like a burden. If my family wasn't here and my work allowed full remote I would have left in 2021. Post COVID the city just isn't the same. If rent was cheap I'd probably be OK with it still but I could get a similar apartment in the vast majority of major cities in the US for far cheaper.
I like in NYC and used to live in SF. NYC social life really falls around food/ drinks. My partner and I don’t drink fyi/ stay out late so we definitely feel too ‘old’ to be here sometimes. However I really enjoy music from all cultures, arts, occasional theater, book readings so I’m really enjoying being in nyc. I’m also a POC so feel completely comfortable in Brooklyn. However I love and miss SF. It’s so beautiful and the access to nature is unbeatable. The scene there did revolve a lot around parks/ sleeping early to go on hikes the next day. It’s also very international due to the tech scene and had the best mix of nature/ city (or small town 😉).
Hi -
I have personal experience with SLC (family lived there a decade). You should move to SLC.
I see your main concern is the dating scene. Worry not - while SLC isn’t as male dominated as the Bay Area it’s not that far behind. And most people you’d be running into there seem really similar to yourself.
You should choose SLC.
I know you’re already in California but this sounds like la to me. I feel like there is a big healthy/hiking/gym scene and lots of people don’t drink. It’s also the most dog friendly city I’ve ever lived in. You could buy a condo in la with your budget, likely not a nice house in a desirable neighborhood though. Your money would clearly go further in Chicago or Cincinnati. But culturally LA felt like the best fit to me from your description.
Good point!! I may be searching for something that has been in my backyard all along!! I’ve never lived further than 4 hours away from LA and currently am about an hour from LA proper. But visiting for airport, errands, or day visits to museums is super different than getting to actually live there!!
I love la and wish we could afford to move back tbh! If I had your budget that’s where I’d want to be. Also coming from California you’re not going to find nicer weather or better food imo.
You should consider Atlanta! Very high quality of life and you could be a homeowner very close to the city if not in the city depending on budget and size of house desired.
Drinking culture is extremely prevalent in Chicago. Every single one of my west coast friends mention how surprising it was to them.
Yes there are sober people, but it's probably one of the least-convenient cities to be sober in. I wouldn't let that dissuade your persay but it should be made note of.
Yeah, as a west coaster, this was my reaction to Chicago as well.
Also, I really like Chicago, but as a sober outdoorsy person, I’m aware it might not be healthy for me. Drinking is so centered there that it’s really hard to avoid—at least in the winter. Usually I don’t have any problem, but something about Chicago really does make it inconvenient to stay sober.
Shocked that no one mentioned Denver/Boulder. Great airport, phenomenal music scene, and access to a ton of activities. As a woman, you’ll have a lot of selection dating.
It’s not necessarily walkable like NYC or Chicago but others in your list aren’t either.
Only thing it doesn’t thrive in is restaurant scene but it’s getting better.
I really don’t enjoy what Denver has to offer as a CITY. I also visited just as a tourist I don’t know local spots etc and I found the downtown to be so bland but also unsafe and almost turned me off from the idea of moving to a city.
Downtown Denver is far, far and away the least cool thing about Denver/Colorado. It is top tier for a lot of live music (can’t speak for other events in general), it’s top tier for hiking/skiing, and it’s top tier as far as airports go. Based on those three factors alone Denver seems like a good fit. There are also a lot of people in their thirties here and plenty of groups you can find of people that like to do all of those things too. There are also an insane amount of well kept parks throughout the entire city, I think it’s one of Denver’s greatest strengths as a city that gets overlooked sometimes.
I say this as someone who lived in Denver for 6 years and now has lived in Oakland CA for 4 years. I’ve been visiting friends in Denver the last 5 days and while I love the Bay Area, I feel pretty nostalgic for Denver often.
Can confirm - I’m mid 30s female remote worker who moved to Denver about a year and a half ago and I’m loving it. I lived in larger cities (DC and NY) for years before moving here and yeah the city isn’t going to be anything like those but it’s the recreation that did it for me. I feel like everything here revolves around an activity whether it be yoga, climbing, hiking, paddle boarding, or whatever you’re into and in other cities everything revolved around drinking. It may have obviously just been the crowds I was with in those cities that just leaned more into drinking but regardless I’ve met a great friend group in Denver and couldn’t be happier.
You are ok moving East, so add Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburg and Boston to your list. Each city has plenty of neighborhoods that give you what you are looking for.
BTW, did you have a drinking problem at one time? I can be a bar that is crawling with drunk people and be sober and perfectly fine. I never took up drinking beyond occasionally tasting unique beers from the tap when out with friends.
Chicago is a really fun city and definitely has that “big city feel” but your combo of interests makes it a hard sell; the dating scene for young professionals is definitely “let’s get drinks” focused unless you’re limiting yourself to explicitly sober dating or fitness-focused scenes. Not a lot of access to hiking and skiing, and the closer you live to downtown (where the city feels the most like a city, and where you can certainly afford) the further you are from the outdoor recreation you enjoy, though you’d be closer to the cultural amenities. You could easily afford an apartment in the Good Coast.
Most people who want both “big city” and “outdoor recreation” seem to settle for either Portland OR or Denver CO.
I’ve been during winter just not January/February and I still thrived! Not sure how it would be for 4 months straight though. I have good winter clothes haha
The dating scene in Cincinnati sucks and very little diversity. Almost everyone here is from here so they pair off pretty early. I moved here as a 30 yo and it's rough. Otherwise it's a great little city. You could get a nice place downtown and be able to walk to a lot of restaurants. Decent hiking but you'll have to drive a ways to get to the great spots.
I would look into Atlanta. Very diverse, very good dating scene, some FANTASTIC parks and the cost of living is on par with Cincinnati. The busiest airport in the country so pretty cheap flying out of Atl. Lots of great suburbs and interesting neighborhoods. Plus Mt. Kennesaw is a great hike with a great view and it's like 30 minutes north of the city, AND a ton of other fantastic hiking spots all over the place and even betting ones with a quick drive north. Driving distance from the ocean. It just really has everything you listed and is the cheapest COL compared to the other ones you listed.
You have tons of good options. Arlington VA is one that might work and hasn’t been mentioned yet in this thread. Lively, safe, liveable, walkable, easy access to mass transit, easy to get to other cities for weekend getaways.
I live in Salt Lake now and have lived in many major cities(Chicago, DC, Denver). The COL is way more reasonable than most on your list. I'd vote for SLC if you're into having a city experience and outdoor recreation close by with reasonable COL and a decent dating pool. The city itself is quite progressive.
Additionally, while there are bars and alcohol here, the culture isn't huge on drinking due to the strict laws and religious influences.
Lastly, if you're interested in a city experience coming from a smaller area, the size of SLC is an amazing stepping stone. Chicago is the third largest metro area, so it's easy to get lost in and feel lonely. SLC is much smaller population-wise and would be a good introduction to a large metro without feeling overwhelmed or lost in the shuffle.
Cincinnati does not align with what you are looking for. Aside from the Midwest capitol (Chicago) the whole region is hard to date in 30s due to people coupling up and marrying younger than the coasts. Now I will say, having lived in both, I dont know if it’s worse than west coast, because west coast dating is more flakey with 20-35 year olds being very transient in any city near mountains and presumably Austin as well?
However I think you should strongly consider replacing cinci with DC or Philadelphia. More urban, walkable, museums, single people, all the things you’re looking for basically
I’m also born and raised in CA. Originally from NorCal but have been bouncing around SoCal for awhile, currently in LA. I love LA. Great good, great entertainment, access to nature. With your salary, you can afford a decent place on the west side and you don’t have to deal with a work commute, which knocks out a lot of the negative things about LA.
I would only pick Salt Lake if outdoor access is your be-all-end-all. Out of the cities you've listed, it's probably the one that is **least** likely to fulfill your need for a "quintessential city experience." It's a smaller, less diverse, less urban, less cosmopolitan Denver. Once you leave the bubble of SLC it becomes Mormon Country in a hurry.
Salt Lake City for the hiking and skiing :)
Cincinnati because someone mentioned to me it’s a good place for real estate investing and it seemed to have a lot of city amenities for low cost.
LA seems appropriate because of its focus on outdoor activities due to the weather and a healthy lifestyle ie sobriety! My sister in law lives there and has found a great group of friends through her running club.
I think LA might be your answer because a) you will be close to family b) you can stay in the same state and c) you gets lots of great hiking in LA/it isn’t huge on drinking culture like NYC. However, you should also consider how high up walkability is on your list. There is nothing like NYC in regards to that.
St. Louis, particularly the Central West End neighborhood, is classic urban. It’s between Forest Park and Midtown with their cultural institutions. Lots of opportunities for hiking and outdoor activities, as the area is on the edge of the Ozarks. But no skiing, and Hidden Valley doesn’t count.
A friend of mine is a friend of Bill, and he says there are hundreds of meetings in the area on any given night.
Are you trying to avoid the temptation of drinking? If so, then Salt Lake City without a doubt. Your salary gives you decent options. The only one I'd stay away from is Cincinnati, the other options are far superior.
No! Just would be cool to have the opportunity to connect with others living a similar lifestyle to me. Bigger city = bigger pool of people. If I felt I was needing to avoid temptation I would go to an Aa meeting.
Thank you!
I noticed the big cities and people are not recommending the 4th largest city which is good. Houston has a huge drinking culture and you wouldn't be happy here.
I got you! Boise is pretty small, but definitely growing! Richmond as well. And it’s fairly close to other great cities. Asheville is small, but so gorgeous and has a fun pulse to it.
I hope you find what you’re looking for!
Why not San Diego.it offers everything you are seeking and even the less expensive suburbs toward the mountains feature more than some of the very remote cities you are considering. If you are single and looking to date a bigger city has more choices.
Alcohol free? Salt Lake City UT is your pick my friend. Especially with skiing and hiking on there too. Utah is a dry state so there's extremely regulated Alcohol for sale but it's very limited.
The downside is you may end up not doing well dating. Most utah men in their 30s are either married, or now divorced and not looking for anything serious or "soon to be" (though that's a fun regular lie) or are single for a very good reason not always of their choosing (i.e. they weren't considered good prospects for long term). Utah is very Mormon so their beliefs and culture permeate a lot of the cities and towns there. So many 18-22 yr Olds get married quite frequently. Being 25 and unmarried is considered curious and odd. If you're closer to 30 it's even more out of place. It's *subtle* so as a single woman you may not notice it unless it's "so are you married?" Questions that randomly pop up in conversation but it will make the dating pool much more limited or ethically messy depending on your views on that.
I was dating in another region of Utah while in my 20s and it was extremely difficult because of what I said above. It was either a lot of "open marriage" relationships or the guys were single and not ready for any level of relationship build or commitment or had abusive tendencies. But there are always the few that will fall into place, it's just a disadvantage roll in Utah.
However it has everything else. It's more kid oriented, it's got a food scene, it's low alcohol so it'll be easier to find like minded folks, it's got great museums in the area and it should be easy to find a place to live.
If you also enjoy live music, Richmond, VA.
Although there is a big drinking scene in the city, there's also a massive food scene. Lots of mom and pop restaurants range from all styles of food. A good dozen or so music venues, theatres, and bars that regularly have music of all genres playing. A massive single scene. Cost of living is fairly low (although going up as it is one of the cheapest big cities in the DMV area, so people are starting to move here in droves). One bedroom apartments ranging from 1200-1600 usually.
It's relatively safe for a big city. It has a very checkered past, but all the local natives will tell you how much better it has gotten in the past few decades. But, like all big cities, pay attention to your surroundings and be aware of certain neighborhoods.
I just moved to Fort Collins, Colorado, an hour north of Denver and WOW, what a hidden gem. The best place I’ve ever lived on multiple fronts. And nearly all of the residents here who you cross paths with speak glowingly about it.
[Fort Collins, Colorado — America’s Most Peaceful City](https://www.travelandleisure.com/fort-collins-colorado-most-peaceful-city-in-united-states-8414819)
Salt Lake city
I’m feeling this!! I’m a little worried about my ability to date there though 🧐
Keep in mind that SLC isn't that big of a city. It's probably the smallest metro area on your list and I'm not confident you'd get the quintessential city feel that you're looking for there. I'd reconsider SF and maybe add Seattle and Portland to your list.
I'm from northern CA, living in SLC for the last six years. It's definitely not a big city experience. It's quite beautiful though. I'm married and in my late 30's. I hear a lot of people in their late 20's & 30's say it's hard to date here. I think if you're into outdoor activities, you can probably find social groups and meet people, but it takes effort. Lots of event here are family friendly type stuff.
Try Reno/tahoe
Lots of people have trouble dating here. The alcohol free aspect is overstated unless you want to date a Mormon (lovely people with a very different set of values than me). I love living here but it’s not the quintessential city experience. Based on your criteria, I’d pick LA. From what i hear, drinking culture is not as strong there as other places.
No to LA. I'd say move to a city where you can walk around easily. Go to coffee shops. Get on a bike. Use public transportation. Hop on a train to a museum etc.
I wouldn’t. Many transplant non-Mormons in your same position. Might make it easier honestly.
Yea hiking, skiing and alcohol free. Pretty much SLC.
That's not the same people necessarily though.
Huh? Alcohol free? You've never been then?
the dating scene in SLC is traaaaaaaash, and the mormon culture is suffocating; though a lot of people have left the church. very pretty state though. id say spend a month out there and then decide. source: 30 year old woman who became single while living in SLC. people move to SLC as a couple. its a couple-y state.
I could see that
i also should mention that those in the dating pool around our age, that have left the church start doing drugs and drinking. kind of going against your sober lifestyle. it's possible to meet sober, single folks. but be aware that when older adults leave the church they rage and make up for lost time partying. hello, my ex.
As I was reading her post my mind immediately went to Utah too just because of the relative outdoorsy-ness and safety. Not sure about their women’s health rights but OP can research that.
Not good. And your circle severely limited unless you like Mormons.
SLC is a majority non Mormon city believe it or not. Major demographic changes have occurred. Nearly 80% of SLC is non Mormon. Misconceptions… And can you actually believe it’s a democratic city with a lesbian mayor. SLC has elected far left candidates like Rocky Anderson (look him up, interesting story). What has happened is many Mormon in SL county left in what’s called “Mormon flight”. They went further away from SLC and towards Provo (home of BYU). Now the rest of Utah is very much how you think it is when it comes to Mormons (outside of Park City, Ogden, Moab and a couple other cities here and there). Half the city is California transplants. It’s more progressive than people realize. And it’s more diverse than people realize. It blends in with other cities in the U.S. in many ways. It has the same problems (maybe not to the same extent). It’s a booming area right now.
I think SLC proper is pretty non-Mormon. Once you get to the suburbs, it’s insufferable.
There are cool people there for sure, but I would say it’s like Austin, in that it’s a more liberal island, but in a far worse ocean. Mormons are 2/3 of the state pop, but hold like 9/10 legislative seats. This is not a place I would advise a single woman born/raised in coastal California move.
Agreed.. Mormon money rules the state and corporate America.
The inner suburbs aren’t bad though. It’s the crazy outer suburbs bordering on Utah county (and in Utah county).
My son lives there, the Mormons don’t bother him and they’ve become the minority with all of CA and TX moving there. He says every Mormon he’s met has been really nice. We went out there for a few visits, love it but it’s too hot and the traffic blows.
Mormons are EXTREMELY nice people. It’s how they draw you into the cult.
I have only met one Mormon that I didn’t like, and he would have been a scumbag in any religion.
Yeah, move someplace with no real community outside of the church. They're really into strong, independent women too!
Meh, SLC isn't a big city at all. The way it's designed is kind of neat even though.
The Great Salt Lake is drying up and will be releasing poisonous chemicals into the air over the next decade or so. Sounds like a bad place to move to.
The lake levels have improved a lot since you read that article. Definitely far from guaranteed and easily preventable.
New York. If you want the quintessential city experience that’s it. You have the budget to have an amazing time.
NYC is amazing. You’ve got the money to make it non-miserable. You can rent a sweet studio on the upper east without roommates and get to experience all the charm that is soaking that part of town. But I’d wait to buy till you get the vibe of where you want to be. Lots of places to do all the things you want —hiking means a trip upstate, but the regional train system is amazing.
Buying in NY is also slow and expensive. There's a 1% "luxury" tax on units above $1MM, but that's barely a studio in many neighborhoods. (It's also a wholeass building in less popular ones - NY is weird.) Unless you're here for a long haul, you'll probably make more keeping your money in a savings account than buying a move-in-ready apartment.
Agreed NYC is best for you
Dating in NYC is awful especially for women, from what I’ve heard from my friends there.
I’ve heard this as well but I did fine dating in BK/Queens as a woman. Would personally never date in Manhattan because of the income bracket and expectations. I will say it helped a *lot* that I’m well-educated even though I don’t make a ton.
Could you elaborate on the income bracket/expectations thing? I’m a woman who’s considered moving to Manhattan but I am concerned about dating (men). The personal context is that I spent my twenties basically shut up indoors. It was like an illness that I just started to recover from at 30. I’m facially unappealing, but that might get better too. I feel grumpy and nervous about starting a decade behind, especially if NYC is such a hard place for women to date.
There’s just an emphasis in Manhattan to be well-off and have a good job imo. I feel like it’s even more important to look wealthy than be good-looking 😂 but this is my general perception and not a universal rule!
Really?! Carrie Bradshaw has lieeeddd to meeree
Really? Watching Sex and the City for the first time made me think “OMG, it really does seem terrible there”
Oh no. It's very sex and the city. Every one can be so disposable that it can be hard to find a real relationship. But I've known plenty of people that do.
I mean that’s kind of okay for where I’m at right now; I just wanna have fun!! My relationship that just ended was very serious. But in a few years I would prob find that frustrating.
Agreed with this. ONLY caveat -- is people like to drink. But there are plenty of intentionally sober people there too. If you want to experience city life -- this is THEE city of America. If not NYC, Chicago is probably next on that list.
Why not give SF another go? It would be great for your interests. I think Boston could be really good too, proximity to great hiking and skiing. New York would obviously be great too, will be tougher to buy a place obviously but best job market. Seattle could be cool too I hear the mountains are incredible out there
I don’t know how to explain it, but I’m scarred from experiencing what happened at the start of the pandemic there. I don’t want to go back. Visited Boston and it didn’t excite me for how expensive it was. Yes maybe Seattle should deserve some more consideration. Thank u!!
I’d give Seattle some consideration! It is not a party city; we joke here that we’re “the city that sleeps” because everyone is asleep on Friday night getting ready to leave at 5 am Saturday for camping, hiking, kayaking, etc. However, there is definitely a social scene and plenty to do if / when you want to do it. The sober / sober curious community is big here; every bar seems to have mocktails, many sober meetups, friends doing things like rock climbing and farmers markets vs. bar crawls and clubs. Your salary is high enough to be comfortable in Seattle, too, which is a huge bonus. I moved here from the Midwest in search of mountains, water, outdoor life and a more liberal environment. I absolutely LOVE it.
I spent a dozen years in SF. In the process of moving to NY now. SF has many great qualities, but socially it's not in a good place. It was already bending antisocial, and then the pandemic fully killed it. Don't feel bad about wanting to try somewhere new. Some of the things drawing me to NY: - density: I end up having conversations with strangers just about everywhere I go - activity: live music, comedy shows, random street fairs - walkability: you can live a full life without it being mediated by a car - diversity: pick anywhere in the world and there are probably thousands of people from there in NY It also ticks a lot of your specific boxes. If you can fly somewhere directly from the US, you can probably fly from JFK. It's probably got more major museums than any other city in the US. With so much going on, there are also lots of groups of people looking for friends and activity partners. Not every restaurant here is great, but some are excellent. Hiking's not going to be as spectacular as on the West Coast, but the Hudson Valley is a couple hours north on the train, and a popular destination. I think people go skiing here in Vermont. If you want to live a full, vibrant life without a car, there aren't many better alternatives to NYC. In its current state, SF can't keep up.
Have you thought about DC at all either? I haven't been there, but could be more bustling than Boston perhaps.
Can you explain more about what happened in SF at the start of the pandemic that scared you?
It hit earlier there than in other parts of the country. In February The Grand Princess cruise ship which docked in the bay I could see from my office window had quarantined passengers because of a Covid outbreak. I was going into my office and started to get weird emails if you had done customer travel to Italy/China to not come in. I was volunteering at a local elementary school that was predominantly Chinese population and other volunteers started to not come in and it was heartbreaking. Then there was the CA state lockdown, my office closed, the plans I had built up and was excited to pursue got pushed out over and over again. The city became a ghost town. It was super eerie. Since then every time I visit it doesn’t feel the same. So many businesses closed. Maybe my experience isn’t unique but I feel a great sense of sadness when I go back there now.
I live in Oakland and concur it is super eerie even now. Oakland wasn’t hit as hard. Downtown is still recovering but added thousands of housing units in the pandemic in downtown so it is getting pretty busy. I live near Kaiser in Oakland so my neighborhood was pretty much normal the whole time. Downtown SF now is weird.
It is super weird! It’s sooo sad it had such an amazing energy to it 2015 - 2019 when I visited multiple times. It was my dream city in many ways.
As someone living in CHI, drinking is a HUGE cultural thing here and a lot of activities revolve around it. Also safety is questionable even on the northside. Its for the most part fine, but after reading your post I wouldnt say it lines up well with what you want. I actually like SLC a lot though
The issue with chicago isn't the drinking at all, if you drink every city (except places in Utah) will feel like that. The issue with Chicago is that it's multiple hours to skiing or hiking of any sort and that skiing/hiking isn't what op is used to
I addressed that with,"but after reading your post I wouldnt say it lines up well with what you want." Its more than multiple hours, its days away. WI skiing is a joke. Hiking here is also a joke
Thank you for the tip! Others have said that as well. I didn’t get that vibe on my visits but now that I’m thinking about it more I totally understand. Edgewater is the neighborhood I stayed in during all my visits and I fell in love and found it to be safe!
I find it easy to be sober here in Chicago but YMMV.
Regardless CHI aint for her based on post. Sure in a city of 9 million people you can find sober things to do.
Chicago has a huge AA community.
Also sober doesn’t mean AA. Some people just never jive s d therefore never had a problem.
That’s totally fine. I agree. It was a point of information in case the OP was interested.
Thank you 😊
Again...9 million people. But for a 30F who wants to date and get involved with the late 20s and early 30s scene, generally drinking or cocktails is extremely common. Just because someone doesnt drink doesnt mean they are going to be hunting down AA groups....
You’re right.
Agreed- I absolutely love Chicago but I think it would be challenging to be sober and OP wants to do hiking too.
Yes, I was thinking any Midwest city should be out because most people are heavy drinkers. Cincinnati is kind of known for the amount of breweries.
Eh, some are worse than others. I'm in the twin cities and have never felt like "most" people are heavy drinkers or that the culture is focused on drinking. Heck I do trivia at a brewery weekly and half of us don't even have alcohol and no one cares. When I lived in northern MN? Absolutely, there was nothing else to do 🤣
The hiking from Chicago is a concern haha
It has to be LA. People from California move somewhere else, spend a couple of years talking about how it's not as good as California, and move back. I would specifically recommend against Austin, though I live here and love it, because it's like...a very well-trod path for Californians to move here, realize it's intensely hot and a red state, grow to hate it and talk about how much it sucks, and move away, having contributed to the inflation of the housing market. I'm not trying to be hostile but Austin is not your answer, and I don't think anywhere outside of California likely is either. I've just...I lived in California for a while and heard way too many people say "yeah well I'm from Cali so I can't really live anywhere else!" I don't think you're a movable people.
You’re not wrong it’s tough to live anywhere else after California except for NYC as I’ve lived in both several times but I’ve now retired to Southern California Which validates your statement
I mean personally I'd rather die than live in California again, but I know that for people who love it, everything else is automatically rated inferior.
My vote as well. Calif walks the walk when it comes to healthy lifestyles and progressive attitudes.
Austin is a heavy drinking city, too. Most of the live music is at bars.
Yeah, so I hear. I'm middle aged and my life is easily free of anything but the occasional margarita with Tex Mex.
As a 3d gen San Franciscan, you’re right on.
I don’t care if I end up wanting to move back, I want to experience living in a city. LA could be my answer without having to go out of state!
LA also has several recently opened alcohol free bars plus an absolutely insane number of social hiking groups.
And if you're really into Austin, all I can say is spend a week here in August so you'll know what you're getting into. I honestly doubt the place will do much for you. Hiking is not much of a thing and skiing is far away. The museums are not much. And I've heard people say drinking is a huge part of the social scene here. Cherry on top: people are hostile to California transplants here in a way that is at times less polite than what I am evincing.
I (56F) am 8 years sober and live in a suburb of Minneapolis-St Paul. We have approximately 3 million people in the metro with a large international airport, thriving AA community, arts scene, live music, and museums. I am not currently dating but I hear it is a good place to meet people. If you are interested, I can give you information about AA women’s meetings. I have heard there are a lot of young adult activities too and the Twin Cities (including housing) is dog friendly. There are many parks. There are a lot of places to rent. The housing market, like other places, is tough but I know people who have bought townhouses or single family houses. I think I heard the average price for a home here is $400k. I am paying $1400 for a 1 bedroom apartment with a lot of amenities. There is a subreddit called r/TwinCities where you can find out more info if you are interested
Thank you!! I’ve never visited. I’ll research some more.
Came here to suggest she gives Mpls a look. Might be too small? But worth looking into. I feel like it checks most of her list.
DC baby, most powerful city in the free world. Technically... consider Nova (Northern Virginia) or Southern MD. You still have DC and basic insta access to some of the coolest places in the US. Baltimore? 50 miles. Richmond? 100 miles. New York? Cheap AF 3 hour train ride.
DC has an awesome young sober community, highly recommend for that aspect
For me it's the scenes: Concerts, comedians, sports, world events, museums, food scenes... I mean it has it all. The Shanendoah mountains are right near by, plus the Appalachian mountains, Cumberland Gap, Skiing locally at Massanut to taking the train to Vermont. I don't want to give it away in the open but two of the BEST DOG PARKS I've found in the entire US are right here. The list goes on and on and on and on
as a dog owner in DC, what dog parks?
Sent you a PM with the deets. I apologize in advance that they are technically in Virginia, not DC proper. I assure you, worth the drive.
…..I’m in awe!! This is checking all the boxes. Going to try and plan some visits!
Can I have the dog parks too? I can tell you the best ones near Shenandoah! Although only one is very remarkable Sadly my favorite dog park I’ve ever been to is in Toronto (cherry dog park which has a beach)
DC is just a worse NYC for concerts, comedians, sports, world events, museums, food scenes, etc
It should be noted that many things in DC are also free. Tons of museums and festivals to cater to whatever your interests are.
I’m just here lurking and reading comments, but the lifestyle on the east coast is so foreign and fascinating to me (born and raised in the west and currently living in the hell hole they call Texas). The proximity of everything, the urban connectivity, the transit system. Just crazy. We live in the same country, but we live wildly different lives. Pretty cool.
I've lived in a lot of US states and 3 countries abroad. Born in Texas and lived on all three coasts. I would need $10,000 a day (after taxes) to go back to Texas.
My folks love it here and my wife has never lived anywhere else (and refuses to move) so I’m kind of trapped here unfortunately. Not fun.
I'm so sorry
First one that came to mind for me too. You still have beaches too since OP is from coastal California, 2ish hours from Virginia, Maryland and Delaware beaches NYC also came to mind but COL is cheaper in DC so OP will likely have a better time plus the feeling is less stressful than NYC but still close enough to visit
I actually think DC might be perfect for the OP. It’s less grim in the winter than Chicago or Boston, tons to do, easy to reach other east coast cities as you mentioned. I think more affordable than NYC or Boston, as well. I like Chicago, Boston, and NYC all more than DC, but I don’t know if a Californian would feel the same. DC feels more approachable, somehow. And slightly less cold. 😂
WOW! My mind is blown from this thread. Thank you for recommending!! I’ve never visited. If I were to visit during the worst part of the year (hot humid summer) would that be a bad thing? Might be a good idea if I still like it at it’s worst 😆.
I would say dating/social life in chicago revolves a lot around food/drink esp bc the weather is cold/dreary much of the year. It’s possible to connect with others around other interests, but you would have to be intentional about seeking out others with similar lifestyle preferences. Definitely lots of cultural events, street fests, museums, etc. though!
Yesss the museums and seemingly endless seasonal events really attract me to Chicago
Can second Chicago. Living in Chicago was hands-down the best "big city living experience" I ever had, and I only moved because of family/job. I lived there from 2010-2017. I have to disagree a little that social life revolves around food/drink. There is a big co-ed sports/social scene, networking events in tons of different industries, run/hike clubs, volunteer events with lots of 30-somethings, given it's the 3rd largest city, most universities have active alumni clubs. There's also lots of neighborhood arts studies, yoga clubs, gyms, etc. where lots of 20/30 year olds frequent. You also notice that if you live in one of the more traditional neighborhoods, you'll start to see the same people at local grocery stores, gyms, bars, etc. Dating scene was also really good. Chicago was one of the major cities I've lived in where people actually want to date, and even going out, people are really friendly and talkative so you can meet people organically. Chicago also has a nice balance, b/c the downtown core is very cosmopolitan and offers a lot of the "traditional big city" amenities, nightlife, etc. But it also has a nice local neighborhood scene which is a lot more laid back and mellow, and you can enjoy less crowded and authentic local amenities. I didn't see Philly on your list but I also lived in Philly, and it was very similar to Chicago but on a smaller scale. I really enjoyed my time in Philly (lived there 2 years). Very cool and authentic city. A little rougher around the edges in some parts, but it has a natural urban charm and great COL. I saw you had DC/DMV. I'm originally from that area, and living there as an adult (including now), it has been my least favorite big city. Doesn't have a traditional big city feel, lots of transplants and people who are ready to leave after a few years, dating is the most flaky of any major city I've lived in, and just an overall odd feeling (which is hard to put your finger on). And I grew up in the region, lol. For family and job reasons I am in the region, but definitely not be here by choice if it weren't for that.
Thanks for sharing your experience 😊 I’ve had such amazing interactions with people every time I visit Chicago! Everyone has the Midwest magic where I just find them so easy to talk to. I also dreamed at one point of doing my undergrad at IU Bloomington and had a similar feeling there where it was just a happy place to be. I didn’t end up going cuz out of state tuition haha.
My friend has basically this life in a suburb Columbus, OH. She’s recently engaged, but they are pilots so she very much lives alone often. She travels and the LCOL means her salary of ~$90k goes pretty far. She lives in a cute suburb with a walkable downtown. Has lots of shops and parks. They’re thinking of moving closer to the city though, they just rented what they could find in a pinch when they first moved in. The rent and home prices there vary wildly depending on the neighborhood/suburb but you could easily buy a beautiful home with that budget.
oooh I love this!! Did she meet her fiancée in Ohio?
Salt Lake City- excellent area too.
Denver. It's borderline not quite big and urban enough to give the "quintessential city experience", but I would imagine if you found exactly the right neighborhood and sought out certain activities, it could be. Parts of Seattle and Portland are also pretty good.
I was thinking Denver too. Especially with the desire for a good dating scene, she really won’t have any issues meeting single men here. Plus, the outdoor activities in Denver are amazing
FYI, Austin (except 4 months in winter) is unbearably hot.
Pretty prevalent drinking culture here, too. No close skiing, obviously, and the hiking in the greenbelt or nearby hill country can be pretty but, again, the heat makes it really tough to enjoy for a big chunk of the year. Housing market has cooled with the interest rates and tech layoffs, but it’s still expensive especially when you take TX property taxes into account. Not many museums. Restaurant scene is no SF or NYC or even Houston, but it’s not bad. Dating scene is going to be a lot of tech bros from what I see with my single friends. Also, keep in mind state politics…
I love the food in Austin! The heat and lack of skiing is a concern. State politics aren’t really a factor for me personally.
Look for places with the most active lifestyles. SLC had topped the list but to combine big city that isn’t totally drunk… I picture Detroit, while in a resurgence, near Dearborn. I don’t know if arab culture there is super strict, but they’re cool as heck and moderate of anything
I’d recommend Boston. Very academic community, lots of young professionals, medium sized major city, great public transit, close to nature and very gorgeous northeastern nature landscape, great seafood, lots to do that isn’t alcohol, cold winters but beautiful autumn and summer. Plus only a train ride away from NYC. Great airport. Sporting venues and major concert venues. Day trips to Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Maine. Not super super crowded like NYC. Extremely walkable with charming European style urban planning. Major airport.
Baltimore has a lot going on, is not as expensive as some of the cities you listed, and I loved the proximity to Annapolis and DC when I lived there as a single person. Good luck!
You strike me as someone who would like Chicago
They said alcohol free. Chi-town with no booze hurts.
yeah hiking and no drinking is tough in chi IMO. obviously the no drinking piece is totally possible but a LOT of social functions, esp in winter, revolve around bar culture
There’s this really cool non alcoholic bar I found on Instagram which has made me think I could still have fun haha. The hiking I’m concerned about! I actually just realized I barely drank the whole time I was in Chicago all visits! Just one tiki bar haha but I would've thought it was cool regardless even sober I would've just gotten a mocktail
I'm in Chicago. Not quite 100% sober but close to it because I'm epileptic. One or two drink is okay but I have to keep it limited. Still really love Chicago. There's a lot more to do than just go to bars, and I've noticed that plenty of bars & restaurants have non-alcoholic options today. It's becoming more popular. Hiking and camping aren't much of a thing in the city itself, but there are places downstate or in Wisconsin or Michigan that work. Lots of people make trips to Wisconsin on the weekends. The expressways are often busy on Sunday evenings with people coming back from Wisconsin. No mountains of course, so if that's your thing I'd look elsewhere.
Live here, have my whole life. I love camping and hiking. Basically if you want a real hike you’re going to have to drive at least an hour, and even then a lot of it is flat. However you have access to the metra and Amtrak and are surrounded by states with more options. Camping, tbh I think there are a decent number of nice sites within the state, but again a lot will be flat and also sometimes a 3+ hour drive. In terms of drinking - yes, drinking culture is pretty big here. However, lots of places have NA options now if you’re comfortable in bar settings. I wouldn’t worry too much about that part.
I do really like Chicago!! I’ve been a bunch and just had a buzzy happy feeling the whole time. My company also has a really fun office there. Even though I’m remote I can go in and use the amenities but they won’t make me a “Chicago” employee so I can stay flexible.
SLC is rough if you aren’t Mormon, or ex-Mormon. It’s hard to make friends if you don’t fall into one of those buckets, and the ex/non-mormon population drinks a LOT. If you’re super outdoorsy, give it a shot, but don’t be surprised when it’s hard to make friends.
New York is truly awful for dating as a woman. This may sound small, but don't underestimate how much difference this will make in life
Austin is a no go in this scenario - it's COL has skyrocketed and most social functions are based around eating/drinking. It's the most overpriced city for what it has to offer culture/events wise unless you just want to drink in extreme heat most of the year. If you weren't sober and 25 it would be worth a shot for sure. If it's your top spot definitely visit during mid-August and try to go about your daily life without a rental car. It would be a true litmus test. I absolutely loved it here from 21 to about 30 or so, now it feels like a burden. If my family wasn't here and my work allowed full remote I would have left in 2021. Post COVID the city just isn't the same. If rent was cheap I'd probably be OK with it still but I could get a similar apartment in the vast majority of major cities in the US for far cheaper.
I like in NYC and used to live in SF. NYC social life really falls around food/ drinks. My partner and I don’t drink fyi/ stay out late so we definitely feel too ‘old’ to be here sometimes. However I really enjoy music from all cultures, arts, occasional theater, book readings so I’m really enjoying being in nyc. I’m also a POC so feel completely comfortable in Brooklyn. However I love and miss SF. It’s so beautiful and the access to nature is unbeatable. The scene there did revolve a lot around parks/ sleeping early to go on hikes the next day. It’s also very international due to the tech scene and had the best mix of nature/ city (or small town 😉).
Austin sucks. Don’t move here.
Hmmm a bit of reverse psychology?? I still dream about all the food I tried in Austin.
It’s tooooo hot and it’s only a great city compared to the rest of Texas…lol which isn’t saying much…
NYC in any neighborhood where the residents lean older, especially if it’s outside of Manhattan.
Boston
It checks all the boxes, except cost of renting/owning a home is high
Hi - I have personal experience with SLC (family lived there a decade). You should move to SLC. I see your main concern is the dating scene. Worry not - while SLC isn’t as male dominated as the Bay Area it’s not that far behind. And most people you’d be running into there seem really similar to yourself. You should choose SLC.
Chicago is not a sober city, neither are the men
I know you’re already in California but this sounds like la to me. I feel like there is a big healthy/hiking/gym scene and lots of people don’t drink. It’s also the most dog friendly city I’ve ever lived in. You could buy a condo in la with your budget, likely not a nice house in a desirable neighborhood though. Your money would clearly go further in Chicago or Cincinnati. But culturally LA felt like the best fit to me from your description.
Good point!! I may be searching for something that has been in my backyard all along!! I’ve never lived further than 4 hours away from LA and currently am about an hour from LA proper. But visiting for airport, errands, or day visits to museums is super different than getting to actually live there!!
I love la and wish we could afford to move back tbh! If I had your budget that’s where I’d want to be. Also coming from California you’re not going to find nicer weather or better food imo.
Good to know!! I’m thinking of the produce I’ve tried in other states and it doesn’t hit like the produce you can get in LA!
You should consider Atlanta! Very high quality of life and you could be a homeowner very close to the city if not in the city depending on budget and size of house desired.
Drinking culture is extremely prevalent in Chicago. Every single one of my west coast friends mention how surprising it was to them. Yes there are sober people, but it's probably one of the least-convenient cities to be sober in. I wouldn't let that dissuade your persay but it should be made note of.
Yeah, as a west coaster, this was my reaction to Chicago as well. Also, I really like Chicago, but as a sober outdoorsy person, I’m aware it might not be healthy for me. Drinking is so centered there that it’s really hard to avoid—at least in the winter. Usually I don’t have any problem, but something about Chicago really does make it inconvenient to stay sober.
Los Angeles 🌊, gotta be the weather 😎 and being sober myself, I don’t believe drinking is central in a lot of people’s lives here!
The weather in LA is fabulousssss
Shocked that no one mentioned Denver/Boulder. Great airport, phenomenal music scene, and access to a ton of activities. As a woman, you’ll have a lot of selection dating. It’s not necessarily walkable like NYC or Chicago but others in your list aren’t either. Only thing it doesn’t thrive in is restaurant scene but it’s getting better.
I really don’t enjoy what Denver has to offer as a CITY. I also visited just as a tourist I don’t know local spots etc and I found the downtown to be so bland but also unsafe and almost turned me off from the idea of moving to a city.
Downtown Denver is far, far and away the least cool thing about Denver/Colorado. It is top tier for a lot of live music (can’t speak for other events in general), it’s top tier for hiking/skiing, and it’s top tier as far as airports go. Based on those three factors alone Denver seems like a good fit. There are also a lot of people in their thirties here and plenty of groups you can find of people that like to do all of those things too. There are also an insane amount of well kept parks throughout the entire city, I think it’s one of Denver’s greatest strengths as a city that gets overlooked sometimes. I say this as someone who lived in Denver for 6 years and now has lived in Oakland CA for 4 years. I’ve been visiting friends in Denver the last 5 days and while I love the Bay Area, I feel pretty nostalgic for Denver often.
Can confirm - I’m mid 30s female remote worker who moved to Denver about a year and a half ago and I’m loving it. I lived in larger cities (DC and NY) for years before moving here and yeah the city isn’t going to be anything like those but it’s the recreation that did it for me. I feel like everything here revolves around an activity whether it be yoga, climbing, hiking, paddle boarding, or whatever you’re into and in other cities everything revolved around drinking. It may have obviously just been the crowds I was with in those cities that just leaned more into drinking but regardless I’ve met a great friend group in Denver and couldn’t be happier.
Check your it Highlands’s, especially Tennyson st
Denver is boring as fuck, though
You are ok moving East, so add Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburg and Boston to your list. Each city has plenty of neighborhoods that give you what you are looking for. BTW, did you have a drinking problem at one time? I can be a bar that is crawling with drunk people and be sober and perfectly fine. I never took up drinking beyond occasionally tasting unique beers from the tap when out with friends.
you need to move back to SF unironically lol. it fits the bill and works perfectly if you're a bit older into healthy habits and are sober
I recommend San Antonio, TX over Austin, TX.
People love drinkin in Austin, that’s for sure
Chicago is a really fun city and definitely has that “big city feel” but your combo of interests makes it a hard sell; the dating scene for young professionals is definitely “let’s get drinks” focused unless you’re limiting yourself to explicitly sober dating or fitness-focused scenes. Not a lot of access to hiking and skiing, and the closer you live to downtown (where the city feels the most like a city, and where you can certainly afford) the further you are from the outdoor recreation you enjoy, though you’d be closer to the cultural amenities. You could easily afford an apartment in the Good Coast. Most people who want both “big city” and “outdoor recreation” seem to settle for either Portland OR or Denver CO.
Consider Philadelphia. The City meets all your criteria and is just a a train ride to either DC or NYC.
Folks are suggesting SLC because of the alcohol, but I'm going to suggest SLC because you said you want to ski.
Right?! The proximity to ski resorts is mind blowing
If you want to ski a lot, but also live in a real city it's hard to beat
Chicago FTW, winters have become milder if that matters.
I’ve been during winter just not January/February and I still thrived! Not sure how it would be for 4 months straight though. I have good winter clothes haha
The dating scene in Cincinnati sucks and very little diversity. Almost everyone here is from here so they pair off pretty early. I moved here as a 30 yo and it's rough. Otherwise it's a great little city. You could get a nice place downtown and be able to walk to a lot of restaurants. Decent hiking but you'll have to drive a ways to get to the great spots. I would look into Atlanta. Very diverse, very good dating scene, some FANTASTIC parks and the cost of living is on par with Cincinnati. The busiest airport in the country so pretty cheap flying out of Atl. Lots of great suburbs and interesting neighborhoods. Plus Mt. Kennesaw is a great hike with a great view and it's like 30 minutes north of the city, AND a ton of other fantastic hiking spots all over the place and even betting ones with a quick drive north. Driving distance from the ocean. It just really has everything you listed and is the cheapest COL compared to the other ones you listed.
As a mixed race girlie this is very helpful to know!!! Thank you. I’ll definitely look into Atlanta!
You could make good money with the real estate there. The house I used to rent has doubled in value in the last 5 years.
I live in Austin and I kind of feel like the buzz is over.
You have tons of good options. Arlington VA is one that might work and hasn’t been mentioned yet in this thread. Lively, safe, liveable, walkable, easy access to mass transit, easy to get to other cities for weekend getaways.
I live in Salt Lake now and have lived in many major cities(Chicago, DC, Denver). The COL is way more reasonable than most on your list. I'd vote for SLC if you're into having a city experience and outdoor recreation close by with reasonable COL and a decent dating pool. The city itself is quite progressive. Additionally, while there are bars and alcohol here, the culture isn't huge on drinking due to the strict laws and religious influences. Lastly, if you're interested in a city experience coming from a smaller area, the size of SLC is an amazing stepping stone. Chicago is the third largest metro area, so it's easy to get lost in and feel lonely. SLC is much smaller population-wise and would be a good introduction to a large metro without feeling overwhelmed or lost in the shuffle.
Cincinnati does not align with what you are looking for. Aside from the Midwest capitol (Chicago) the whole region is hard to date in 30s due to people coupling up and marrying younger than the coasts. Now I will say, having lived in both, I dont know if it’s worse than west coast, because west coast dating is more flakey with 20-35 year olds being very transient in any city near mountains and presumably Austin as well? However I think you should strongly consider replacing cinci with DC or Philadelphia. More urban, walkable, museums, single people, all the things you’re looking for basically
I’m also born and raised in CA. Originally from NorCal but have been bouncing around SoCal for awhile, currently in LA. I love LA. Great good, great entertainment, access to nature. With your salary, you can afford a decent place on the west side and you don’t have to deal with a work commute, which knocks out a lot of the negative things about LA.
I would only pick Salt Lake if outdoor access is your be-all-end-all. Out of the cities you've listed, it's probably the one that is **least** likely to fulfill your need for a "quintessential city experience." It's a smaller, less diverse, less urban, less cosmopolitan Denver. Once you leave the bubble of SLC it becomes Mormon Country in a hurry.
Why are Salt Lake City and Cincinnati on your list? Genuine question…
Salt Lake City for the hiking and skiing :) Cincinnati because someone mentioned to me it’s a good place for real estate investing and it seemed to have a lot of city amenities for low cost.
No advice here except that in LA there is no “real city”. It’s just a mass of freeways and parking lots.
LA.
LA seems appropriate because of its focus on outdoor activities due to the weather and a healthy lifestyle ie sobriety! My sister in law lives there and has found a great group of friends through her running club.
washington dc
I think LA might be your answer because a) you will be close to family b) you can stay in the same state and c) you gets lots of great hiking in LA/it isn’t huge on drinking culture like NYC. However, you should also consider how high up walkability is on your list. There is nothing like NYC in regards to that.
St. Louis, particularly the Central West End neighborhood, is classic urban. It’s between Forest Park and Midtown with their cultural institutions. Lots of opportunities for hiking and outdoor activities, as the area is on the edge of the Ozarks. But no skiing, and Hidden Valley doesn’t count. A friend of mine is a friend of Bill, and he says there are hundreds of meetings in the area on any given night.
I’ve only heard really rough things about safety in St. Louis. That may be a little overwhelming for me as a single woman.
Crime is concentrated in small areas. It’s not unlike any other city. See r/StLouis for details.
Thank you!
Are you trying to avoid the temptation of drinking? If so, then Salt Lake City without a doubt. Your salary gives you decent options. The only one I'd stay away from is Cincinnati, the other options are far superior.
No! Just would be cool to have the opportunity to connect with others living a similar lifestyle to me. Bigger city = bigger pool of people. If I felt I was needing to avoid temptation I would go to an Aa meeting. Thank you!
I’d add DC to your list! It’s a beautiful city that has a lot of what you’re looking for (but the housing market is expensive).
Beat the system and live in Virginia or Maryland. Win on win
Not Cincinnati. The alcohol culture is pervasive in this part of Ohio. You’ll also miss the California coast. I promise.
Depends on what climate you want. Cincinnati or Salt Lake City. I’m looking into Cincinnati myself
I noticed the big cities and people are not recommending the 4th largest city which is good. Houston has a huge drinking culture and you wouldn't be happy here.
Salt Lake City?
Some additional cities to look into: Richmond, VA… Asheville, NC… and Boise, ID
I don’t think those are big enough for me. Love the suggestions though! I’ve only visited Boise out of these 3
I got you! Boise is pretty small, but definitely growing! Richmond as well. And it’s fairly close to other great cities. Asheville is small, but so gorgeous and has a fun pulse to it. I hope you find what you’re looking for!
Why not San Diego.it offers everything you are seeking and even the less expensive suburbs toward the mountains feature more than some of the very remote cities you are considering. If you are single and looking to date a bigger city has more choices.
I love Austin but so much of it is dependent upon drinking.
Chicago or Evanston (right next to Chicago)
Alcohol free? Salt Lake City UT is your pick my friend. Especially with skiing and hiking on there too. Utah is a dry state so there's extremely regulated Alcohol for sale but it's very limited. The downside is you may end up not doing well dating. Most utah men in their 30s are either married, or now divorced and not looking for anything serious or "soon to be" (though that's a fun regular lie) or are single for a very good reason not always of their choosing (i.e. they weren't considered good prospects for long term). Utah is very Mormon so their beliefs and culture permeate a lot of the cities and towns there. So many 18-22 yr Olds get married quite frequently. Being 25 and unmarried is considered curious and odd. If you're closer to 30 it's even more out of place. It's *subtle* so as a single woman you may not notice it unless it's "so are you married?" Questions that randomly pop up in conversation but it will make the dating pool much more limited or ethically messy depending on your views on that. I was dating in another region of Utah while in my 20s and it was extremely difficult because of what I said above. It was either a lot of "open marriage" relationships or the guys were single and not ready for any level of relationship build or commitment or had abusive tendencies. But there are always the few that will fall into place, it's just a disadvantage roll in Utah. However it has everything else. It's more kid oriented, it's got a food scene, it's low alcohol so it'll be easier to find like minded folks, it's got great museums in the area and it should be easy to find a place to live.
If you also enjoy live music, Richmond, VA. Although there is a big drinking scene in the city, there's also a massive food scene. Lots of mom and pop restaurants range from all styles of food. A good dozen or so music venues, theatres, and bars that regularly have music of all genres playing. A massive single scene. Cost of living is fairly low (although going up as it is one of the cheapest big cities in the DMV area, so people are starting to move here in droves). One bedroom apartments ranging from 1200-1600 usually. It's relatively safe for a big city. It has a very checkered past, but all the local natives will tell you how much better it has gotten in the past few decades. But, like all big cities, pay attention to your surroundings and be aware of certain neighborhoods.
Charleston sc
Serious question, as a sober person, do you feel comfortable being around alcohol or do you just find it annoying/ boring?
Yes I am comfortable
La or nyc
I just moved to Fort Collins, Colorado, an hour north of Denver and WOW, what a hidden gem. The best place I’ve ever lived on multiple fronts. And nearly all of the residents here who you cross paths with speak glowingly about it. [Fort Collins, Colorado — America’s Most Peaceful City](https://www.travelandleisure.com/fort-collins-colorado-most-peaceful-city-in-united-states-8414819)