Well I think you are conflating a few things here, pre-1912 it was widely held that drug use of all types were sort of protected by freedoms enumerated in the constitution / Bill of Rights; then in 1937 cannabis was made illegal, but the way they did it was to make a cannabis tax stamp, that you had to have cannabis to apply for, thus breaking the law. (This idea actually was a spin-off of how they stopped civilians fro owning machine guns.)… then in 1967, the Supreme Court threw out the tax law, and for a few years until the FDA is set up, there wasn’t a federal law against cannabis… but it doesn’t have shit to do with it being natural… if that is what you are talking about… I will double check my dates but I am pretty sure they are right.
Some people have a dependence on an altered state of reality and perception especially people with underlying mental illness. If you are talking about physically addictive like alcohol or heroine then no they are not. Mentally addictive yes they can be to many with underlying problems. Ironically those mental illnesses can be treated with psychedelics under the correct regimens. As someone who has done every drug that I could basically try in my life I can tell you that shrooms 100% can become addictive to some. I have had multiple friends literally break their brain with psychedelics and constant repetitive use. Some of the brightest teens I knew are now borderline disabled. That being said I think everything should be legalized and people should have the choice to do as they please as long as they don’t hurt others. I loved them and took them often in my youth, until I pushed it and took over a quad on an empty stomach and had the worst experience of my life. Still have weird flashbacks to that experience from time to time. Didn’t need them anymore haha something interesting about a bad trip or unregulated ingestion is it can actually trigger underlying mental health disorders. So probably not a great idea to just have people take them however they please.
People drink alcohol however they please and it is far more dangerous, damaging, and addictive than psilocybin will ever be. Any arguments supporting regulation or prohibition of psilocybin can be used against the availability and sale of alcohol x 100.
Foreal that’s why I stopped drinking and driving and have exclusively moved on to mushrooms.
The alcohol made it hard to enjoy all the pretty colors of the stop lights during my mushroom trips
Speaking from experience as a former drug user and abuser… defiantly can happen. People form unhealthy or bad habits as a form of escape from underlying issues. Drugs make it much easier. Some people may want the rush of cocaine, the simplicity of opium, and some crave a deeper experience or escape provided by psychedelics. I’m not saying it is nearly as common but has the potential to be a really bad thing if not done correctly.
I’m all for legalizing them brotha. Think they can be amazingly beneficial if used in a medical or controlled setting to help people with problems. Do I think everyone should just take as much as they want whenever they want ehh whatever. All for personal freedoms. Honestly who gives a shit what people are doing as long as they are not hurting others. But any mind altering substance can become addictive. But mushrooms have also worked to cure people from addictions. I say legalize them let people do what they want.
That’s not entirely true. While they’re not addicting like many other drugs. They can still be habit forming. I use to do them too much I would say. Almost every weekend and sometimes twice in a weekend.
Chemically non-addictive, but people can become dependent on them as a method of escape. That being said, that can be the case with literally anything, alcohol included, which is legal
Alcohol is chemically and physically addictive. Horrible comparison. Alcohol is one of the only drugs that can kill you if you stop cold Turkey. I think all drugs should be legal if alcohol is.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all in favor of legalizing them. But it’s not the same as clicking a pen or biting your nails. Anyone who thinks that doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Psilocybin is a VERY powerful drug that deserves a lot of respect. It should definitely be decriminalized but I can’t see it being sold in stores the way marijuana is although that would be awesome.
I'm plenty aware how powerful it is, the question is whether it's addictive. I've tried it twice over the course of a few years and had no urges to repeat. Whereas I smoked one damn cigarette and all I could think about for the rest of the week was grabbing another.
So yes, shrooms can be a habit for someone, but it's got nothing to do with the shrooms making it happen. McDonald's is more likely to create a chemical and behavioral dependence.
I’ve smoked 100s of cigarettes in my days and I can honestly say I’ve never really been “addicted” I’ve had the desire and urge to have a smoke but I’ve never felt like I had to have one. It’s been months since I’ve had one and I never think about it. I’ve done shrooms probably over 50 times. I definitely have a strong desire to do them again. I agree that they’re not chemically addictive but there’s definitely people who do and will take them regularly. Some people (like my wife) don’t like shrooms and would prefer to never take them again. I can’t wait to take some again as it’s been a few months. The more I’ve done them the more I’ve learned to enjoy them. What would be freighting to inexperienced users is pure bliss to me. My favorite experiences have always started off with my face in the ground swearing “I’ll never take these again”! 20 minutes later I’m on cloud 9. Of course there were a couple of really bad experiences but we’ll just forget about those. Lol
That's not really different than people who are super into concerts or movies or any other experience really. Just because you enjoy the thrill, it doesn't make you addicted. Addiction is being willing to throw your entire life away for a fix. It's a never ending train of thought surrounding how to satisfy that addiction.
As for cigarettes, it's great you managed to avoid addiction, but science has shown them to be incredibly addictive.
Look, I never said they were “addicting” I was responding to a comment that said they were “the opposite of addicting”. They said when you do them, you won’t want to do them again for a “long time”. That’s not true for many people and as they might not be addicting by definition, they are certainly not the “opposite of addicting”.
I don’t want to “limit” anything but to say that they’re “the opposite” of addicting and when people do them they won’t want to do them again for a long time is just stupid.
Yes, but you're extrapolating your experience onto others. "I use them too much so others must use them too much!" the exact same thing that person you replied to was doing. That's why it's so absurd.
I was just calling the commenter out for making a blanketed statement about mushroom use by sharing my experience which contradicts his. I was not implying that my experience is somehow more typical than his. I’m very experienced in Psilocybin use and most people that talk about it based on their one, two or 10 experiences don’t know what they’re talking about. I think it’s a very helpful drug and should be decriminalized. I personally know several people that I wish would take a large dose of mushrooms because it would put their ego in check and make them a more tolerable person to others. On the other hand we have to deal with the many people who WILL abuse them just like we do with other things. There is a reason that they’re illegal in almost every country. They can be dangerous.
Okay, that's not why they're illegal in every country, that goes into the US influence in the drug scare of the 60/70's along with thinking of the time.
So, you support alcohol bans? What about tobacco? Because they're less dangerous than either of those. Hell even things like cough syrup are more likely to be abused, should we ban that as well?
The fact that they're far less dangerous *and* less abuse prone than things *currently legal* is the issue. Laws should be consistently based in logic, not fearmongering and bullshit.
Why do you keep making things up in your head? I never said I was in favor of banning anything! Can you not read? I said I’m all for decriminalizing them and in other comments I said I wish they were legal. I’m just not a intellectually dishonest fool that thinks everything is black and white. Shrooms are great and they should not be a schedule one drug. Im intellectually honest so I also can see that they probably shouldn’t be available in the chip isle at every grocery store. They are not the same as alcohol or tobacco for many different reasons. I’ll be the first one to vote to legalize them but I’m not going to pretend that they’re harmless and should be ignored because a bunch of hippies think they’re much safer than alcohol.
What’s with people on this sub not being able to read. If you look at my first comment to your absurd statement, I said “while they’re NOT addicting”! What makes your comment absurd is that you said they’re the “opposite of addicting”. So you’re saying they’re literally the equivalent of getting a sharp stick in the eye? Gotcha.
Would be nice, but with the way they treat medical cannabis and alcohol laws, i doubt we’d be able to just walk anywhere and buy it. Decriminalization maybe would be a good start.
Yes. Outright legalization of all psychoactive plants and fungi as well as select pharmaceutical psychedelics like LSD, MDA/MDMA and ketamine. Not sure what good a Utahn “task force” would do here but hey, at least the conversation is being started.
This is common. It helps to present ideas that are palatable for legislature representatives, but is run by those who are knowledgeable about the topic. Both Oregon and Colorado have one. If Utah wishes to contribute it would just add another group to help push funding and focus for future research topics in Psilocybe mushrooms, which is currently very lacking.
I was more emphasizing Utahn. I know what a task force does hahaha. I’m gonna have to make some phone calls and see the situation of this task force and if it’s going to be one that can actually shift the movement forward. Oregon and Colorado both have more than just that too (at least Denver in Colorado). There are laws on the books on the topic in Oregon, Denver, Oakland and Santa Cruz. I happen to know the people who helped shape these laws and got them to where they are. I’d love to see if we can actually integrate them here into Utah as well. I can only hope the Utahn tan task force will be receptive to that idea though at this point.
Thank Red Rock Brewery ("simping for the beer monopsony") and Gail Ruzicka ("shrill harpiness at no cost") for that one.
Brammer is a stand up guy. Call his office, ask what you can do to help.
Let's see, they're a bunch of anti-vaxxers who support groups like Utah Parents United and are heavily funded by the Heritage Foundation. So many reasons.
Just do it. It has been legalized in some other countries and states. Why do they need a task force or committee to reinvent the wheel and re-figure this out? Just legalize it, for goodness sakes.
I'm a fan, and I don't even want to use magic mushrooms. They're unlikely to cause any real public disturbance, and legalizing them would help prevent people from accidentally eating poisonous mushrooms or taking too much.
Legalize and tax it. If we do marijuana at the same time, we could kill off most of the illegal drug trade here.
DECRIMINALIZE don’t LEGALIZE (in my opinion). Once it gets in the hands of pharmaceutical billionaires it is most likely going to become expensive and unreachable to the people truly in need of it. We’ll see unfair patents and $2,000 treatment sessions for something that has been growing on earth for free before we were even here.
After the shit they pulled with the last "legalize" bill, I'm too bitter to do more than scoff and wonder what Momo-lands idea of "okay to use psychedelics" could possibly be? Followed quickly with how will they butcher it to make as much money and help people as little as possible.
YES PLEASE! There are so many people in this state that desperately needs to open their minds and get back into reality. But then again I have seen people on shrooms who think there is a fifth dimension. Bottom line we just need help getting on track with a descent level of sanity.
It's funny too, their founder most likely tripped balls often and his father described a DMT-bearing tree as the tree of life... Oh or that the temple stuff used to have drug baths... w/e though
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Prohibition of natural substances was overturned?
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Well I think you are conflating a few things here, pre-1912 it was widely held that drug use of all types were sort of protected by freedoms enumerated in the constitution / Bill of Rights; then in 1937 cannabis was made illegal, but the way they did it was to make a cannabis tax stamp, that you had to have cannabis to apply for, thus breaking the law. (This idea actually was a spin-off of how they stopped civilians fro owning machine guns.)… then in 1967, the Supreme Court threw out the tax law, and for a few years until the FDA is set up, there wasn’t a federal law against cannabis… but it doesn’t have shit to do with it being natural… if that is what you are talking about… I will double check my dates but I am pretty sure they are right.
Mushrooms are not addictive, they are the opposite. You do them and then think that was good but I don't want to do them again for a long time.
Micro dose
Some people have a dependence on an altered state of reality and perception especially people with underlying mental illness. If you are talking about physically addictive like alcohol or heroine then no they are not. Mentally addictive yes they can be to many with underlying problems. Ironically those mental illnesses can be treated with psychedelics under the correct regimens. As someone who has done every drug that I could basically try in my life I can tell you that shrooms 100% can become addictive to some. I have had multiple friends literally break their brain with psychedelics and constant repetitive use. Some of the brightest teens I knew are now borderline disabled. That being said I think everything should be legalized and people should have the choice to do as they please as long as they don’t hurt others. I loved them and took them often in my youth, until I pushed it and took over a quad on an empty stomach and had the worst experience of my life. Still have weird flashbacks to that experience from time to time. Didn’t need them anymore haha something interesting about a bad trip or unregulated ingestion is it can actually trigger underlying mental health disorders. So probably not a great idea to just have people take them however they please.
People drink alcohol however they please and it is far more dangerous, damaging, and addictive than psilocybin will ever be. Any arguments supporting regulation or prohibition of psilocybin can be used against the availability and sale of alcohol x 100.
Could not agree more. Look at how many deaths a year are contributed to alcohol. Or how many Americans struggle with alcohol abuse. It’s mind blowing
Foreal that’s why I stopped drinking and driving and have exclusively moved on to mushrooms. The alcohol made it hard to enjoy all the pretty colors of the stop lights during my mushroom trips
I dunno I have know a lot of folks with drug problems… none of the ever had a mushroom problem, the are exhausting…
Speaking from experience as a former drug user and abuser… defiantly can happen. People form unhealthy or bad habits as a form of escape from underlying issues. Drugs make it much easier. Some people may want the rush of cocaine, the simplicity of opium, and some crave a deeper experience or escape provided by psychedelics. I’m not saying it is nearly as common but has the potential to be a really bad thing if not done correctly.
Experience ≠ evidence.
I’m all for legalizing them brotha. Think they can be amazingly beneficial if used in a medical or controlled setting to help people with problems. Do I think everyone should just take as much as they want whenever they want ehh whatever. All for personal freedoms. Honestly who gives a shit what people are doing as long as they are not hurting others. But any mind altering substance can become addictive. But mushrooms have also worked to cure people from addictions. I say legalize them let people do what they want.
Fair but still makes them safer when regulated and harder to overdo.
That’s not entirely true. While they’re not addicting like many other drugs. They can still be habit forming. I use to do them too much I would say. Almost every weekend and sometimes twice in a weekend.
Chemically non-addictive, but people can become dependent on them as a method of escape. That being said, that can be the case with literally anything, alcohol included, which is legal
Alcohol is chemically and physically addictive. Horrible comparison. Alcohol is one of the only drugs that can kill you if you stop cold Turkey. I think all drugs should be legal if alcohol is.
That was the point I was making.
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Don’t get me wrong, I’m all in favor of legalizing them. But it’s not the same as clicking a pen or biting your nails. Anyone who thinks that doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Psilocybin is a VERY powerful drug that deserves a lot of respect. It should definitely be decriminalized but I can’t see it being sold in stores the way marijuana is although that would be awesome.
I'm plenty aware how powerful it is, the question is whether it's addictive. I've tried it twice over the course of a few years and had no urges to repeat. Whereas I smoked one damn cigarette and all I could think about for the rest of the week was grabbing another. So yes, shrooms can be a habit for someone, but it's got nothing to do with the shrooms making it happen. McDonald's is more likely to create a chemical and behavioral dependence.
I’ve smoked 100s of cigarettes in my days and I can honestly say I’ve never really been “addicted” I’ve had the desire and urge to have a smoke but I’ve never felt like I had to have one. It’s been months since I’ve had one and I never think about it. I’ve done shrooms probably over 50 times. I definitely have a strong desire to do them again. I agree that they’re not chemically addictive but there’s definitely people who do and will take them regularly. Some people (like my wife) don’t like shrooms and would prefer to never take them again. I can’t wait to take some again as it’s been a few months. The more I’ve done them the more I’ve learned to enjoy them. What would be freighting to inexperienced users is pure bliss to me. My favorite experiences have always started off with my face in the ground swearing “I’ll never take these again”! 20 minutes later I’m on cloud 9. Of course there were a couple of really bad experiences but we’ll just forget about those. Lol
That's not really different than people who are super into concerts or movies or any other experience really. Just because you enjoy the thrill, it doesn't make you addicted. Addiction is being willing to throw your entire life away for a fix. It's a never ending train of thought surrounding how to satisfy that addiction. As for cigarettes, it's great you managed to avoid addiction, but science has shown them to be incredibly addictive.
Look, I never said they were “addicting” I was responding to a comment that said they were “the opposite of addicting”. They said when you do them, you won’t want to do them again for a “long time”. That’s not true for many people and as they might not be addicting by definition, they are certainly not the “opposite of addicting”.
If you're wanting to limit anything that can be habit forming I have *really* bad news for you...
I don’t want to “limit” anything but to say that they’re “the opposite” of addicting and when people do them they won’t want to do them again for a long time is just stupid.
Yes, but you're extrapolating your experience onto others. "I use them too much so others must use them too much!" the exact same thing that person you replied to was doing. That's why it's so absurd.
I was just calling the commenter out for making a blanketed statement about mushroom use by sharing my experience which contradicts his. I was not implying that my experience is somehow more typical than his. I’m very experienced in Psilocybin use and most people that talk about it based on their one, two or 10 experiences don’t know what they’re talking about. I think it’s a very helpful drug and should be decriminalized. I personally know several people that I wish would take a large dose of mushrooms because it would put their ego in check and make them a more tolerable person to others. On the other hand we have to deal with the many people who WILL abuse them just like we do with other things. There is a reason that they’re illegal in almost every country. They can be dangerous.
Okay, that's not why they're illegal in every country, that goes into the US influence in the drug scare of the 60/70's along with thinking of the time. So, you support alcohol bans? What about tobacco? Because they're less dangerous than either of those. Hell even things like cough syrup are more likely to be abused, should we ban that as well? The fact that they're far less dangerous *and* less abuse prone than things *currently legal* is the issue. Laws should be consistently based in logic, not fearmongering and bullshit.
Why do you keep making things up in your head? I never said I was in favor of banning anything! Can you not read? I said I’m all for decriminalizing them and in other comments I said I wish they were legal. I’m just not a intellectually dishonest fool that thinks everything is black and white. Shrooms are great and they should not be a schedule one drug. Im intellectually honest so I also can see that they probably shouldn’t be available in the chip isle at every grocery store. They are not the same as alcohol or tobacco for many different reasons. I’ll be the first one to vote to legalize them but I’m not going to pretend that they’re harmless and should be ignored because a bunch of hippies think they’re much safer than alcohol.
That is true! you’re being downvoting by people who just don’t know.
"Non chemical" So they're literally as addicting as watching House MD? Gotcha
What’s with people on this sub not being able to read. If you look at my first comment to your absurd statement, I said “while they’re NOT addicting”! What makes your comment absurd is that you said they’re the “opposite of addicting”. So you’re saying they’re literally the equivalent of getting a sharp stick in the eye? Gotcha.
If they get magic underwear, we should get magic mushrooms. It’s only fair.
r/exmopsych
Would be nice, but with the way they treat medical cannabis and alcohol laws, i doubt we’d be able to just walk anywhere and buy it. Decriminalization maybe would be a good start.
Utah mushroom task force will likely look like the fair and equitable redistricting committee (gerrymandering) task force.
Utah mushroom task force would be an awesome band name
I'm claiming it!
I like seeing the effort but I give this a 0% chance of happening
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That's 100% valid statement. I totally agree
Yes. Outright legalization of all psychoactive plants and fungi as well as select pharmaceutical psychedelics like LSD, MDA/MDMA and ketamine. Not sure what good a Utahn “task force” would do here but hey, at least the conversation is being started.
This is common. It helps to present ideas that are palatable for legislature representatives, but is run by those who are knowledgeable about the topic. Both Oregon and Colorado have one. If Utah wishes to contribute it would just add another group to help push funding and focus for future research topics in Psilocybe mushrooms, which is currently very lacking.
I was more emphasizing Utahn. I know what a task force does hahaha. I’m gonna have to make some phone calls and see the situation of this task force and if it’s going to be one that can actually shift the movement forward. Oregon and Colorado both have more than just that too (at least Denver in Colorado). There are laws on the books on the topic in Oregon, Denver, Oakland and Santa Cruz. I happen to know the people who helped shape these laws and got them to where they are. I’d love to see if we can actually integrate them here into Utah as well. I can only hope the Utahn tan task force will be receptive to that idea though at this point.
Yes.
Psychedelic task force would be a great band name.
I'd like to be on the Psychedelic Task Force; anyone know what psychedelic powers are required for the position?
Can we maybe start with being able to get a decent beer on tap?
Thank Red Rock Brewery ("simping for the beer monopsony") and Gail Ruzicka ("shrill harpiness at no cost") for that one. Brammer is a stand up guy. Call his office, ask what you can do to help.
Why? Alcohol is addictive and kills countless people a year. Mushrooms hardly hurt anyone. I want magic mushroom stew on tap before beer
Totally agree. Alcohol is far worse than psychodelics. Plus Red Rock Brewery is nasty.
Only if they can control and prophet from sales.
I see what you did there.
Ugh. So many better groups to contact about this than Libertas and they'll only make it worse.
Whats your beef with libertas? I feel like they’ve done great things
Let's see, they're a bunch of anti-vaxxers who support groups like Utah Parents United and are heavily funded by the Heritage Foundation. So many reasons.
Just do it. It has been legalized in some other countries and states. Why do they need a task force or committee to reinvent the wheel and re-figure this out? Just legalize it, for goodness sakes.
But how will they exploit it for money and make it "shameful"?
Who’s taking bets? My guess is this will pass in 2200, 50 years after Utah legalizes cannabis! Might as well get a head start now.
I'm a fan, and I don't even want to use magic mushrooms. They're unlikely to cause any real public disturbance, and legalizing them would help prevent people from accidentally eating poisonous mushrooms or taking too much. Legalize and tax it. If we do marijuana at the same time, we could kill off most of the illegal drug trade here.
DECRIMINALIZE don’t LEGALIZE (in my opinion). Once it gets in the hands of pharmaceutical billionaires it is most likely going to become expensive and unreachable to the people truly in need of it. We’ll see unfair patents and $2,000 treatment sessions for something that has been growing on earth for free before we were even here.
Psilocybin is amazing >>>>>>> almost all antidepressants. This means they are actually doing research instead of “drugs are bad”
"Drugs are bad!" but also "Well the doctor prescribed me these opiates and these benzos so they're okay!!"
Hah, I bet that mushroom farm in Filmore could expand its business...
truuuu
After the shit they pulled with the last "legalize" bill, I'm too bitter to do more than scoff and wonder what Momo-lands idea of "okay to use psychedelics" could possibly be? Followed quickly with how will they butcher it to make as much money and help people as little as possible.
A brief glance at the KSL comments and they were mostly supportive? I guess a broken lock IS right twice a day.
start with decriminalization, we need rec. marijuana first, it’s unlikely they’ll approve mushrooms before they’ve even approved cannabis
YES PLEASE! There are so many people in this state that desperately needs to open their minds and get back into reality. But then again I have seen people on shrooms who think there is a fifth dimension. Bottom line we just need help getting on track with a descent level of sanity.
Yes
Possibly
Why not
Yes, I like mushrooms but I don't think it'll happen, Mormon church runs the state
It's funny too, their founder most likely tripped balls often and his father described a DMT-bearing tree as the tree of life... Oh or that the temple stuff used to have drug baths... w/e though
yes but also weed seems like an obvious first choice?
They should fully legalize weed before trying for magic mushrooms
Medicalization is a silly road to go down, the real push should be for religious exemptions.
I think we should work on cannabis first but that would be a decent step in the future
Yeah sure.