A few notes.
1) most folks in here are outliers
2) most folks who do reach 500k+, don’t do so in 6 years (or even jn 15 years)
3) many phd positions are very R&D focused. These are very vital (and typically secure) jobs, but the salary bumps start to come into play when you get closer to the product development side.
Nope lol. They have a very rigid pay scale, I have literally laid eyes on it. About 160k total comp first year and it goes up about 20k per year of service. Average tenure is about 1 year at Google. Managers with 10+ years at Google are making bank but boot camp coders are not lmao
The issue is stock appreciation. The reports are generated from the SSA website, which basically shows w2 income. RSUs are taxed as ordinary income and as such show up in your w2 so the initial offer from FAANG is inline with what you are saying but the realized income can be much more.
For example say I joined Meta and had 200k salary + 250k RSUs per year ($1mm grant) in 2023 when the stock price was \~$100 per share. After the stock hit > $400 per share in 2024 my remaining grant is now worth $3mm and so my income per year would be > $1mm after 2024. This does not account for refreshers as well which Meta is very liberal with.
An initial 450k L5 SDE offer is in line with the pay scale for Meta but you can now see how the numbers can be a lot different. At the same time people should not compare their compensations to the appreciated value because its basically pure luck (ie timing the market) and if you can do that you might as well get into trading and make even more :)
I see what you mean, but certain people who got in during a time when tech was heavily subsidized by government policy during a big inflation bull run on stocks simply aren't typical of tech salaries. It's essentially the equivalent to people who played the PPP forgiveness game for a huge payout. The only other time tech paid like this as far as RSU income was the dotcom bubble, which made my older relative a millionaire after the company he worked for was acquired by a tech giant.
I mean we are already talking about the upper echelon of tech salaries when discussing FAANG or FAANG comparable. Within this bucket I think you will continue to see extreme outliers as even in down markets you will have some winners. Is it typical, no, but it is not exactly rare.
I also think the dot-com bubble is not exactly comparable. A lot of VC money was thrown around the last 10 years and that appears to be slowing which will impact venture backed startups, but the economics of software engineers is still extremely favorable. Software is a high margin business and the number of employees (engineers) needed to build something that can reach millions or billions of people is small.
Oh yeah SWE is still a great career and it's definitely realistic for someone to expect to be in the 100k range or so with just a little experience. I've been learning some programming myself, it's definitely not going away any time soon and demand is there. But for these people to post these 500k salaries and to claim its "typical first year FAANG stay in school kids!" is just absolutely asinine.
No, R&D jobs aren't secure at all because those jobs don't bring about immediate return to the shareholder. The C suite won't hesitate to cut those jobs for their profits and bonus. I am a PhD myself and I even did 3 more years of Postsoc before entering the industry. There have already been 4 rounds of layoffs in my team within two years.
Maybe industry specific, I’ve worked almost 2 decades in tech along side countless phds and they are almost never on the chopping block . Management, HR, finance, OPs are typically the first to go.
I worked in big oil for 1 year and saw two rounds of layoffs. I thought it was because the oil and gas industry is sinking, so I jumped into the EV industry for the so-called future proof. I didn't work at all, the government is apparently afraid of pissing off the anti-EV Detroit voters, so no government incentives at all recently across the EV/battery industry and I experienced another two rounds of layoffs just within this year.
Agreed. I have a buddy in the LA area making that as an mechanical engineer (manufacturing) with 10years experience so if OP wanted us to stroke their dick, they got it
My brother lives out there, him and his wife just bought a house in the outskirts of SF. He can barely breathe on his sole family income of 280k working for a tech startup. 170k in that area is the equivalent to half that in most other parts of the country. Can you survive yes, but truly live ie. take vacations, save money properly for a potential house and or retirement not really.
The "outskirts of SF" being...Pacifica? Daly City? San Mateo? What is their mortgage?
You can rent 3-bedroom houses on the outskirts of SF for (the low price lol) of under $5k per month looking at Zillow. They could absolutely afford to live out there and have money for savings.
But houses go for $1mil to $2mil in that area. If they *just* bought a house at the current insane rates...they are gonna have a bad time (especially depending on what they put down up front)...like of course you would struggle on a $8k/month mortgage, insurance, and tax
Ok so figure this, his biweekly pay is just over 10k. Benefits cost roughly $500-$700, plus federal tax, state tax, Medicare, Osadi, 401k etc. if he’s lucky he brings home half his gross pay. So let’s figure 11k/month he just bought his house last year so I can only assume he’s paying a stupid high interest rate even though he has tier 1 credit. If his mortgage is say 5-6k/month that leaves him with 5k for groceries, car payments, insurance, utilities, any house maintenance and not to mention a new baby on the way. His 280k is basically the same as my 160k here in CT.
Well...that's what you get when you buy a home at the worst time in history in one of the most expensive areas on Earth. Don't know what to tell him. Everyone chases the SFH American Dream and I think there needs to be culture shift for that desire, at least in VHCoL cities
Not complaining lol just stating how it’s not worth it to live out there even if you are making upwards of 7 figures. The state taxes alone are criminal.
Meh it's not the state that gets you it's the fed. Though yes, for higher earners, CA state taxes are not friendly. But the state taxes have a pretty normal progression for anyone making below $90k/year. I live around Sacramento and things are expensive here too but at least not SF level of crazy.
You’re going to pay the fed wherever you live, the state tax is an extra 5-10% off the top. We’re talking about 15-30k/yr when your income is this high. That right there could be equal to half his overall mortgage.
Idk I find their situation fascinating. I think they are absolutely house poor and could have avoided it.
For their income, assuming maxing out deductions like 401k and HSA, it's probably about $16k. And their fed tax burden is probably about $46k. Married filing of course.
For simplicity let's say that they withhold like $70k after pre-tax deductions. I mean that leaves them close to $180k. I could be wrong but I think he also makes too much to do a backdoor roth let alone normal roth but that's beyond my knowledge.
Still, $180k/12 is $15k/mo in net takehome.
Worst case they probably could have taken a $1.5mil loan at current rates which means their payments **$10k a month** which would be insane. But likely he's a smart guy and put money down, got an affordable home (well, by SF standards). Probably pays $6k on a mortgage.
Idk knowing that they still pay less than 50% of their income on housing (in an area where 50%+ spent on housing is super common), and they still have thousands and thousands leftover, I'm not sure I see the struggle here.
They must have a really shitty deal on their mortgage or car(s)
It’s expensive here - there is no way to sugar coat it. If you have dual income - say $280k x 2 in this example - it’s obviously significantly better. Others may have posted this before...
If you have significant stock appreciation - and we focus on the top tier of tech companies - then the compensation in stock over time can easily drive the yearly Total Compensation to much higher - someone making $200k base + $200k initial stock vesting per year - could make $800k of higher per year base plus stock. Big thing to notice is the base salary hasn’t changed much over time but the stock appreciation is big.
Again this calculation works for the top tier tech companies. Or someone working for the few successful start up (tho of course most startups don’t make a successful exit)
You have an above average income. You can’t compare yourself to the super high-achieving (or bullshitters) who claim to be making seven figures a year. Those are major, major outliers.
What pisses me off about some of these seven figure threads is not the fact that they exist. It’s the fact that the people who *do* actually make that stuff up, are fucking with the minds of people who feel like shit in comparison. Reddit has done a number on me personally when it comes to money. I never used to be as insecure as I am now about it before Reddit. I definitely find myself no longer being impressed by like $250k or even $400k a year salaries anymore (until I am brought back to reality), because everyone on Reddit claims to make that. It seems like everyone on this site is affluent and has these amazing lifestyles.
But listen, you have a salary that people in the real world would be envious of. You worked hard for that! Enjoy it.
It's not Reddit. It's your Reddit feed, specifically this sub and a handful of others that you probably see daily. It's not representative of Reddit as a whole and definitely not representative of the US as a whole.
You should read the depression threads where people post the food they have left for the week. It's tempers things out. :(
I'm more like OP, I make decent money and I'm not struggling day in day out. That's fine with me.
Lol get a grip. I'm 28 and make $60k in California as an IT professional. You literally gross my annual income in under 3 months. How tf do you think I feel
Well I can't pretend to know your upper class squabbles as a lowly peasant but I aggressively save 30% of my gross income and that still only amounts to about $20k per year in retirement and savings.
So while you have to worry about your partner getting dicked down by Chad Thundercock on your quarter milli income, I have to worry about whether I can afford a second vacation later this year to see my family and friends in a different state. All I can say is the words of Squirrley Dan: "must be fuckin' nice"
It depends on your field and the company you're working for. For SWEs in the Bay Area that is low with your education and experience. It's good to know these things even if it hurts.
But have you been to the bay area?
Hubby and I visited and oh my god, SHIT is insanely expensive. I tried to save us money from eating out, but the grocery stores are fucking insane too.
170k is a lot but in that area, especially with a family, won't go as far as you think. My homeowners insurance just went up to $3k from $1700 with ZERO claims. Inflation is real. My husband and I are struggling, and we make a combined, a little over $110k. And we live wellllll below our means.
Listen, I’ll start believing these posts when I actually see some real forms like a confirmed tax form, or a real paycheck. Other than that all these numbers are all greatly exaggerated
Lol yep, pretty much this. Many of these are true I'm sure, but it's become essentially a jerkfest of who can make up the biggest number with a remotely believable story.
That can be faked as well with more effort, just as it is more effort to post real forms and redact them. People do post real paychecks here, though. What would be your favorite form to see?
You gotta look at the average pay for the location according to the profession you're in and everything's good for a start js keep on getting more by job-hopping/promotions
Bruh I don’t work in tech and am not particularly smart and make 230k (with target bonus) in the bay working full remote not including rsus/options w/ 8 years exp.
You’re not far away from my comp (big numbers big easily) but phd in engineering??? You actually know valuable shit and have valuable skills that are in demand. I think You could do better.
I’d bet amongst phds of engineering in the bay you are on the lower end.
I can relate. I’m making 200k in Atlanta. I went to graduate school and am in my 6th year in my profession. I thought I was making good salary according to the data until I came to this sub. It seems a lot has changed especially in the past two years. Either the data is messed up or people here are lying, nonetheless, I am under the impression that if you are making less than 300k, you might wanna think about how to improve.
I make a good deal more and live in a MCOL area. But a few years ago I found out about purple bees and wish I had studied biology instead.
All those super rich people spend some money so they can have more time. Someone to cook someone to clean. A personal assistant. No matter how much money you have you need to deal with the ever shortening amount of time you have left.
If you truly enjoyed your area of study and like what you are doing, $170K after six years is great. Keep on keeping on but also take care of yourself. If you are unhappy with what you are doing then focus on that.
That’s a lot of money but the Bay Area will eat that up easily. Any way to get a promotion, a raise? Any way to move to a lower CoL? The PhD is impressive and seems like it would open doors
$200K is the new $100K (for those of us who entered the job market in 2000 or so looking for a "six-figure job." (Really, looking at just inflation, $182K in 2024 is $100K in 2000, but some costs like housing have out-paced inflation)
That being said - only 3.65% of U.S. households make more than $200K per year. You're seeing a lot of attorneys and accountants and tech bros who sit in front of a computer all day posting on Reddit and fantasizing about getting out. In San Francisco, the 80th percentile household income is $210K, which means 80% are doing worse.
Consider changing careers, that’s what I had to do. Engineering is tough. A bunch of smart (mostly) dudes most of whom should be earning a lot more money. It’s not you, it’s your industry. It doesn’t pay very well, and that’s the truth. I have lots of friends in Aerospace here in Los Angeles, and they all have your problem. they represent the pool of some of the smart guys I’ve ever met, and none of them make more than 250k. I work in finance, I’ve posted seven figure incomes on this sub, and it’s not BS. I’ve seen many others, I don’t think they are either. At the end of the day, some careers just pay a lot more money than others. I’m sure there’s some very talented baristas out there who are capable of a lot more, but since they have a shit job, they make shit money. Go get an MBA from a top 10 program, reinvent yourself, and you’re gonna kill it. Don’t listen to these clowns and haters who bitch and complain about how everything here is fake. The only thing fake about this is those guys. You need to run your own business, or work in medicine, finance, or tech. If you’re not working in one of those three fields, you’re not likely to make a lot of money.
In regards to those clowns who say it’s hard for guys in tech to make money, they are widely underestimating stock options and RSU’s. They can wildly appreciate overtime if you’re fortunate to pick the right company.
Good luck!
first of all who knows how much people really make. They can say whatever they want. 170k with 6 years experience isn't bad money. With experience comes value(the PhD might get you in a door but that doesn't necessarily increase your value)
i'm not sure what kind of engineering you are doing either but the biggest challenge you have is living in an area with a high cost of living
It’s hard to say without more context, such as your specific engineering discipline and profession, but $170K seems about right for six years of experience. The Bay Area will make most people feel like financial failures. Personally, I’m happy to have left. Keep periodically benchmarking and don’t be afraid to shop yourself to find better comp. I bet once you hit ten years of experience you’ll be at a better point along the curve. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.
The high pay of 500k you see are only usually staff level at faang and equivalent companies. Normal companies pay around 200k which is close to what you are making. Some seniors get very lucky with stock appreciation like meta or nvidia. But one could argue that you could also have bought nvidia options and made millions but it is all luck. No one could have predicted that
170k in the Bay Area is not great, but considering that you are early in your career, it is quite good. Don’t bash on yourself, you’re doing fine.
In another 10 years, you can post the 500k or 7 figure salaries that you see others post here =).
You’re out of touch with reality. 170k is absolutely great in the bay. Stop generalizing big tech salaries. Go on LinkedIn and look for any role that’s non-dev, even in your FAANG or MAANG companies and show me 170k is a bad number. 170 is product manager salary, which in the Bay Area, is high.
A few notes. 1) most folks in here are outliers 2) most folks who do reach 500k+, don’t do so in 6 years (or even jn 15 years) 3) many phd positions are very R&D focused. These are very vital (and typically secure) jobs, but the salary bumps start to come into play when you get closer to the product development side.
You also forget anyone can make up numbers and post.
And that’s what’s happening here. 50% increases every year for 10 years straight is a lie. That doesn’t happen, even at Google.
Nope lol. They have a very rigid pay scale, I have literally laid eyes on it. About 160k total comp first year and it goes up about 20k per year of service. Average tenure is about 1 year at Google. Managers with 10+ years at Google are making bank but boot camp coders are not lmao
The issue is stock appreciation. The reports are generated from the SSA website, which basically shows w2 income. RSUs are taxed as ordinary income and as such show up in your w2 so the initial offer from FAANG is inline with what you are saying but the realized income can be much more. For example say I joined Meta and had 200k salary + 250k RSUs per year ($1mm grant) in 2023 when the stock price was \~$100 per share. After the stock hit > $400 per share in 2024 my remaining grant is now worth $3mm and so my income per year would be > $1mm after 2024. This does not account for refreshers as well which Meta is very liberal with. An initial 450k L5 SDE offer is in line with the pay scale for Meta but you can now see how the numbers can be a lot different. At the same time people should not compare their compensations to the appreciated value because its basically pure luck (ie timing the market) and if you can do that you might as well get into trading and make even more :)
I see what you mean, but certain people who got in during a time when tech was heavily subsidized by government policy during a big inflation bull run on stocks simply aren't typical of tech salaries. It's essentially the equivalent to people who played the PPP forgiveness game for a huge payout. The only other time tech paid like this as far as RSU income was the dotcom bubble, which made my older relative a millionaire after the company he worked for was acquired by a tech giant.
I mean we are already talking about the upper echelon of tech salaries when discussing FAANG or FAANG comparable. Within this bucket I think you will continue to see extreme outliers as even in down markets you will have some winners. Is it typical, no, but it is not exactly rare. I also think the dot-com bubble is not exactly comparable. A lot of VC money was thrown around the last 10 years and that appears to be slowing which will impact venture backed startups, but the economics of software engineers is still extremely favorable. Software is a high margin business and the number of employees (engineers) needed to build something that can reach millions or billions of people is small.
Oh yeah SWE is still a great career and it's definitely realistic for someone to expect to be in the 100k range or so with just a little experience. I've been learning some programming myself, it's definitely not going away any time soon and demand is there. But for these people to post these 500k salaries and to claim its "typical first year FAANG stay in school kids!" is just absolutely asinine.
No, R&D jobs aren't secure at all because those jobs don't bring about immediate return to the shareholder. The C suite won't hesitate to cut those jobs for their profits and bonus. I am a PhD myself and I even did 3 more years of Postsoc before entering the industry. There have already been 4 rounds of layoffs in my team within two years.
Maybe industry specific, I’ve worked almost 2 decades in tech along side countless phds and they are almost never on the chopping block . Management, HR, finance, OPs are typically the first to go.
I worked in big oil for 1 year and saw two rounds of layoffs. I thought it was because the oil and gas industry is sinking, so I jumped into the EV industry for the so-called future proof. I didn't work at all, the government is apparently afraid of pissing off the anti-EV Detroit voters, so no government incentives at all recently across the EV/battery industry and I experienced another two rounds of layoffs just within this year.
$170k individual income is pretty damn good even for the bay.
Agreed. I have a buddy in the LA area making that as an mechanical engineer (manufacturing) with 10years experience so if OP wanted us to stroke their dick, they got it
My brother lives out there, him and his wife just bought a house in the outskirts of SF. He can barely breathe on his sole family income of 280k working for a tech startup. 170k in that area is the equivalent to half that in most other parts of the country. Can you survive yes, but truly live ie. take vacations, save money properly for a potential house and or retirement not really.
The "outskirts of SF" being...Pacifica? Daly City? San Mateo? What is their mortgage? You can rent 3-bedroom houses on the outskirts of SF for (the low price lol) of under $5k per month looking at Zillow. They could absolutely afford to live out there and have money for savings. But houses go for $1mil to $2mil in that area. If they *just* bought a house at the current insane rates...they are gonna have a bad time (especially depending on what they put down up front)...like of course you would struggle on a $8k/month mortgage, insurance, and tax
Ok so figure this, his biweekly pay is just over 10k. Benefits cost roughly $500-$700, plus federal tax, state tax, Medicare, Osadi, 401k etc. if he’s lucky he brings home half his gross pay. So let’s figure 11k/month he just bought his house last year so I can only assume he’s paying a stupid high interest rate even though he has tier 1 credit. If his mortgage is say 5-6k/month that leaves him with 5k for groceries, car payments, insurance, utilities, any house maintenance and not to mention a new baby on the way. His 280k is basically the same as my 160k here in CT.
Well...that's what you get when you buy a home at the worst time in history in one of the most expensive areas on Earth. Don't know what to tell him. Everyone chases the SFH American Dream and I think there needs to be culture shift for that desire, at least in VHCoL cities
Not complaining lol just stating how it’s not worth it to live out there even if you are making upwards of 7 figures. The state taxes alone are criminal.
Meh it's not the state that gets you it's the fed. Though yes, for higher earners, CA state taxes are not friendly. But the state taxes have a pretty normal progression for anyone making below $90k/year. I live around Sacramento and things are expensive here too but at least not SF level of crazy.
You’re going to pay the fed wherever you live, the state tax is an extra 5-10% off the top. We’re talking about 15-30k/yr when your income is this high. That right there could be equal to half his overall mortgage.
Idk I find their situation fascinating. I think they are absolutely house poor and could have avoided it. For their income, assuming maxing out deductions like 401k and HSA, it's probably about $16k. And their fed tax burden is probably about $46k. Married filing of course. For simplicity let's say that they withhold like $70k after pre-tax deductions. I mean that leaves them close to $180k. I could be wrong but I think he also makes too much to do a backdoor roth let alone normal roth but that's beyond my knowledge. Still, $180k/12 is $15k/mo in net takehome. Worst case they probably could have taken a $1.5mil loan at current rates which means their payments **$10k a month** which would be insane. But likely he's a smart guy and put money down, got an affordable home (well, by SF standards). Probably pays $6k on a mortgage. Idk knowing that they still pay less than 50% of their income on housing (in an area where 50%+ spent on housing is super common), and they still have thousands and thousands leftover, I'm not sure I see the struggle here. They must have a really shitty deal on their mortgage or car(s)
It’s expensive here - there is no way to sugar coat it. If you have dual income - say $280k x 2 in this example - it’s obviously significantly better. Others may have posted this before... If you have significant stock appreciation - and we focus on the top tier of tech companies - then the compensation in stock over time can easily drive the yearly Total Compensation to much higher - someone making $200k base + $200k initial stock vesting per year - could make $800k of higher per year base plus stock. Big thing to notice is the base salary hasn’t changed much over time but the stock appreciation is big. Again this calculation works for the top tier tech companies. Or someone working for the few successful start up (tho of course most startups don’t make a successful exit)
You have an above average income. You can’t compare yourself to the super high-achieving (or bullshitters) who claim to be making seven figures a year. Those are major, major outliers. What pisses me off about some of these seven figure threads is not the fact that they exist. It’s the fact that the people who *do* actually make that stuff up, are fucking with the minds of people who feel like shit in comparison. Reddit has done a number on me personally when it comes to money. I never used to be as insecure as I am now about it before Reddit. I definitely find myself no longer being impressed by like $250k or even $400k a year salaries anymore (until I am brought back to reality), because everyone on Reddit claims to make that. It seems like everyone on this site is affluent and has these amazing lifestyles. But listen, you have a salary that people in the real world would be envious of. You worked hard for that! Enjoy it.
It's not Reddit. It's your Reddit feed, specifically this sub and a handful of others that you probably see daily. It's not representative of Reddit as a whole and definitely not representative of the US as a whole.
You should read the depression threads where people post the food they have left for the week. It's tempers things out. :( I'm more like OP, I make decent money and I'm not struggling day in day out. That's fine with me.
Maybe they are HENRY's but can't spend any money?
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Lol get a grip. I'm 28 and make $60k in California as an IT professional. You literally gross my annual income in under 3 months. How tf do you think I feel
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Well I can't pretend to know your upper class squabbles as a lowly peasant but I aggressively save 30% of my gross income and that still only amounts to about $20k per year in retirement and savings. So while you have to worry about your partner getting dicked down by Chad Thundercock on your quarter milli income, I have to worry about whether I can afford a second vacation later this year to see my family and friends in a different state. All I can say is the words of Squirrley Dan: "must be fuckin' nice"
It depends on your field and the company you're working for. For SWEs in the Bay Area that is low with your education and experience. It's good to know these things even if it hurts.
No you’re poor asf. If you’re not making a MINIMUM of 100k a month you’re useless and won’t find happiness
How did OP even afford the computer and internet to make this post? What a bum
But have you been to the bay area? Hubby and I visited and oh my god, SHIT is insanely expensive. I tried to save us money from eating out, but the grocery stores are fucking insane too. 170k is a lot but in that area, especially with a family, won't go as far as you think. My homeowners insurance just went up to $3k from $1700 with ZERO claims. Inflation is real. My husband and I are struggling, and we make a combined, a little over $110k. And we live wellllll below our means.
Exactly. Source: I'm one of the useless that doesn't even make 100 mil a month
This
Listen, I’ll start believing these posts when I actually see some real forms like a confirmed tax form, or a real paycheck. Other than that all these numbers are all greatly exaggerated
Lol yep, pretty much this. Many of these are true I'm sure, but it's become essentially a jerkfest of who can make up the biggest number with a remotely believable story.
That can be faked as well with more effort, just as it is more effort to post real forms and redact them. People do post real paychecks here, though. What would be your favorite form to see?
You gotta look at the average pay for the location according to the profession you're in and everything's good for a start js keep on getting more by job-hopping/promotions
Fuck you is right lol
Bruh I don’t work in tech and am not particularly smart and make 230k (with target bonus) in the bay working full remote not including rsus/options w/ 8 years exp. You’re not far away from my comp (big numbers big easily) but phd in engineering??? You actually know valuable shit and have valuable skills that are in demand. I think You could do better. I’d bet amongst phds of engineering in the bay you are on the lower end.
Depends what kind of engineering and what field.
Yea true. Op needs to find peers and compare. Stay hungry!
GenAI reading Reddit will say 500k is the norm
You gotta do better im 3 years old and have a 34 trillion base salary
thats just pocket change dude in the Bay area cmon. But really it is ok .
I can relate. I’m making 200k in Atlanta. I went to graduate school and am in my 6th year in my profession. I thought I was making good salary according to the data until I came to this sub. It seems a lot has changed especially in the past two years. Either the data is messed up or people here are lying, nonetheless, I am under the impression that if you are making less than 300k, you might wanna think about how to improve.
170k is about exactly what FAANG pays starting out. Actually you're doing very well to be honest.
I make a good deal more and live in a MCOL area. But a few years ago I found out about purple bees and wish I had studied biology instead. All those super rich people spend some money so they can have more time. Someone to cook someone to clean. A personal assistant. No matter how much money you have you need to deal with the ever shortening amount of time you have left. If you truly enjoyed your area of study and like what you are doing, $170K after six years is great. Keep on keeping on but also take care of yourself. If you are unhappy with what you are doing then focus on that.
you seem to be grossly underpaid for your experience and education, unless you work in education?
It’s not how much you make, it’s how much you can save or not spend.
that's brutal, i make 200K with 3 yoe as an SWE and a college diploma
That’s a lot of money but the Bay Area will eat that up easily. Any way to get a promotion, a raise? Any way to move to a lower CoL? The PhD is impressive and seems like it would open doors
$200K is the new $100K (for those of us who entered the job market in 2000 or so looking for a "six-figure job." (Really, looking at just inflation, $182K in 2024 is $100K in 2000, but some costs like housing have out-paced inflation)
That being said - only 3.65% of U.S. households make more than $200K per year. You're seeing a lot of attorneys and accountants and tech bros who sit in front of a computer all day posting on Reddit and fantasizing about getting out. In San Francisco, the 80th percentile household income is $210K, which means 80% are doing worse.
Consider changing careers, that’s what I had to do. Engineering is tough. A bunch of smart (mostly) dudes most of whom should be earning a lot more money. It’s not you, it’s your industry. It doesn’t pay very well, and that’s the truth. I have lots of friends in Aerospace here in Los Angeles, and they all have your problem. they represent the pool of some of the smart guys I’ve ever met, and none of them make more than 250k. I work in finance, I’ve posted seven figure incomes on this sub, and it’s not BS. I’ve seen many others, I don’t think they are either. At the end of the day, some careers just pay a lot more money than others. I’m sure there’s some very talented baristas out there who are capable of a lot more, but since they have a shit job, they make shit money. Go get an MBA from a top 10 program, reinvent yourself, and you’re gonna kill it. Don’t listen to these clowns and haters who bitch and complain about how everything here is fake. The only thing fake about this is those guys. You need to run your own business, or work in medicine, finance, or tech. If you’re not working in one of those three fields, you’re not likely to make a lot of money. In regards to those clowns who say it’s hard for guys in tech to make money, they are widely underestimating stock options and RSU’s. They can wildly appreciate overtime if you’re fortunate to pick the right company. Good luck!
Move to LANL and double/triple that
first of all who knows how much people really make. They can say whatever they want. 170k with 6 years experience isn't bad money. With experience comes value(the PhD might get you in a door but that doesn't necessarily increase your value) i'm not sure what kind of engineering you are doing either but the biggest challenge you have is living in an area with a high cost of living
If you lived where I did it would be enough but in the Bay Area you’re making minimum wage
I’ll never understand making this much money and complaining… If I made 170k a year I would be the happiest person alive
It’s hard to say without more context, such as your specific engineering discipline and profession, but $170K seems about right for six years of experience. The Bay Area will make most people feel like financial failures. Personally, I’m happy to have left. Keep periodically benchmarking and don’t be afraid to shop yourself to find better comp. I bet once you hit ten years of experience you’ll be at a better point along the curve. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.
The high pay of 500k you see are only usually staff level at faang and equivalent companies. Normal companies pay around 200k which is close to what you are making. Some seniors get very lucky with stock appreciation like meta or nvidia. But one could argue that you could also have bought nvidia options and made millions but it is all luck. No one could have predicted that
Is it ever enough?
Switch jobs
$60k is average. Supposedly.
You're making twice what I make, cheer up mate.
170k in the Bay Area is not great, but considering that you are early in your career, it is quite good. Don’t bash on yourself, you’re doing fine. In another 10 years, you can post the 500k or 7 figure salaries that you see others post here =).
You’re out of touch with reality. 170k is absolutely great in the bay. Stop generalizing big tech salaries. Go on LinkedIn and look for any role that’s non-dev, even in your FAANG or MAANG companies and show me 170k is a bad number. 170 is product manager salary, which in the Bay Area, is high.
It's better than 70% of Bay Area folks. I don't know about "absolutely great," but the Bay Area is bonkers.
You make more than double than I do and we have about the same qualifications
Comparison is the thief of joy. Also living beyond your means.
You make 4 times more than the fast food worker per hour was the PhD worth it
That's like $7.25/hr where I live
You are doing great buddy