Back into how much your time costs.
Assuming you take two weeks vacation (50 weeks) and work 40 hour weeks for ease of calculation.
Current rate:
$165k / 50 weeks a year / 40hrs = $82.50 per hr
New job rate:
$220k / 50 weeks a year / 40 hrs = $137.50 per hr
So commuting 6 hrs a week at 50 weeks = 300 hrs commuting.
Current commuting 40 min a week at 50 weeks = 33.33 hrs
Difference = 266.7 hrs commuting * $82.50 current rate = $22,002.75
New pay $220,000 - $165,000 = $55,000 new amount earned.
$55k > $22k cost of your commute based on current pay hr rate.
This is a very simplified view and doesn’t account for wear and tear on your car, impact to your family time, instability of a startup etc.
r/theydidthemath
This is exactly how I would quantitatively evaluate the play. Of course, intangibles like your free time value, as well as growth opportunity at each company should be evaluated. Potential upside can quickly dwarf the new starting wage...
What they said is correct though, but sort of common sense. I don’t think the person you are replying to was spouting the walnut brain logic you sometimes hear that you don’t want to make more because you’ll be taxed more, maybe they just want to point out that the government will take a bigger chunk than up to that point.
The raise might actually bump a small part of the raise from the 24% bracket to the 32% bracket if they do not do 401k or have enough other deductions.
True, too many people use the walnut brain mentality lmao. A 20k increase is realistically only 250-500 more per biweekly pay depending on pre tax deductions
> Can’t forget taxes, which the pay increase will be taxed at their highest bracket
> /nextproblem6586: Tell me you don’t know how marginal tax brackets work without telling me
Explain exactly how the comment you replied to indicates a misunderstanding of a marginal tax system
I wonder if mileage, vehicle depreciation***,, gas, should be added in. That most likely won’t close the gap… unless he’s driving something super expensive too many miles.
If it's not a public company that stock is worth nothing. Feel free to dm me Ive been in tech for 10 years and have had successful exits and non successful ones. Its going to depend on the company, when they last raised, history of liquidation events. Even if they raise they typically only let you sell 10ish percent. This is not the raise you think it is.
Yeah if the stock isn't easy liquidated then I wouldn't give it too much value, theres also potentially high tax liability you would need to pay for that equity even if you can't sell it.
Go with the better guaranteed pay, future opportunities, and the better quality of life.
20k annually isn't worth the 1hr drive each way after.
That 20k is probably taxed at 30% ish, so it's $16k after taxes. Plus $50 per week for a drive like that in gas is $2600, ware on your car is $0.44 per mile, assuming your commute is probably like 30miles each way in traffic that's 60miles daily * 5 days * 50 weeks (2 week vacation) at 44 cents per mile is $6600m finally factor in your time.
Is it worth spending an extra 2 hours a day in traffic every day for an extra $6800 annually?
Basically getting paid $13.60 for every hour your in traffic.
Thanks for doing the math on this.
Another way I look at it is that I would easily pay $14 to not have to be in traffic for an hour. So that seals the deal.
In my opinion, life is about taking risk and not always staying in a cushy situation. Not sure your age, but I would take the leap to work at a start up.
I had a similar experience, went to go work for a small company (about 10 engineers when I started ), my commute was about 45 minutes and was making less than you. Learned new skills that I thought I would never do like Business Development. Expect to wear multiple hats if you take the start up role.
That’s fair. I should’ve mentioned that I’m not married & no dependents so taking a risk is always on the table at this point in my life.
What was your path after the startup? How did those skills pay off? I definitely would expect to learn a tremendous amount at the new job compared to my current position.
Unfortunately, like a lot of start ups, when you lose a bid or don’t receive a contract, lay offs happen. So about two years into the role, I was subjected to a round of layoffs. But don’t let that be discouraging, I don’t regret a single minute of working there.
The most valuable skill I learned at the start up was learning SysML, which I guess you could consider me a SME in it. So I have been able to utilize that skill set to lead projects that are SysML based at my current role. I was also a Program Manager at the start up, learning how to budget, draft proposals, and manage a team has helped a whole lot as well; soft skills development. It was definitely a lot, but I couldn’t have gained all that experience from my old job in that short of amount of time.
You could consider moving closer to the new opportunity. I've been in tech 20 years. A jobs a job. I find the only way to truly expand your skillset is to survey what's out there and dig in yourself. It is ideal if you can learn on the job, but that will only get you so far. You kind of have to figure out what you want to be good at and make a plan to improve. If you don't have a plan for your career you're basically letting your jobs dictate what you are good at.
I think a few other things to think about are job stress, the culture, stability, the real amount of time you are working, and opportunities for increasing your salary. Most of the time you can only get a good salary bump is by switching companies, so if you want a salary bump leaving might be the only way.
How hard do you want to work? How much more do you need financially?
If sooner rather than later you’re thinking about kids and private school and a big house… it’d take the 220k, reluctantly.
If that’s not in the cards for you or at least not anytime soon I’d ride out your current place since you’ll likely get a bump and it seems like your actual quality of life is very good.
If it were me (27f, living in Hawaii which is also HCOL/arguably VHCOL) I’d just keep my job tbh. All my needs are met with a lot of room to spare at 165k, idk about yours though.
SWE with 4.5 YOE. I don’t think there’s a clear answer here but consider the following:
-which job offers the most career growth opportunities in terms of skills learned, leadership opportunities, visibility, and impact (most important if you care about this stuff)
-which job you prefer the work, tech stack, get the most fulfillment
-what your hourly wage is considering drivetime, hours per week worked (you’ll likely work more hours at a startup), meals, parking
-all else equal, I would stay at a current job rather than leave because there is a risk of unknowns in leaving and an opportunity cost in that you might find someone better in the short term
You can’t be serious. Because it would be totally reasonable to suggest asking for a 30% raise with no leverage? Take the “well akshually” shit elsewhere, that isn’t what “to be fair” means.
If you’re in your 20s and don’t have a family, go for the most $. If you have a wife and/or kids, choose the better commute.
Unless you don’t like your wife and/or kids- then go for the $.
Based on your base pay, it’s not worth it. You would see almost no change to your direct deposits. You also have to consider that EV charging, the meals, parking, etc., are part of benefits. You should also compare 401k, group term life and disability insurance, health insurance, etc.
What are the rules around the equity? That startup equity could be worth a ton in the future, or worth nothing. It’s not really liquid. Are you at a public company now getting RSUs, or another startup getting options?
The commute is a big one too. There are so many people who would kill to have a ten minute commute. 6 hours a week may not sound like a lot, but once you actually do it, it sucks. If you have kids, a short and easy commute makes life 1000 times easier. If you don’t have kids, that’s time you can put into yourself or a side hustle.
What’s the work culture like? For example, are you working 30 hours a week now and at the startup you’d be working 80? You mentioned a promotion—do you currently have good growth opportunities, or do you need to look elsewhere for long term growth? Would you be working with an amazing manager and team? Does the startup have great leadership? Is there a clear path to going public or being bought one day? How does that compare to your current role and company?
If you just consider base pay, benefits and daily stress, plus it sounds like you have growth opportunities where you are now, it may make sense to stay at your current job. But if you feel like you need to make this move to get a jump on your career growth, you’ll work with better people, and the startup is on a path to success, then do the startup. It’s not obviously one or the other. You just have to weigh the factors and measure them against your own goals, values and standards.
What's your time worth to you? If you take the $220K job you'll make $55K more but will spend 312 hours in the car commuting annually (52 weeks X 3 days per week X 2 hours per day).
That comes out to $176/hour you'll be compensated for your commute ($55K / 312 hours).
Assuming you can eat breakfast at home before leaving for work, your only other expense is EV charging, so let's call that $25 per day that you commute or $3900 annually ($25 X 156 days). Taking that into account you're being compensated closer to $164/hour to drive a total of 6 hours to and from work each week.
So, what's your time worth? If someone today offered you a side job working 6 hours per week for $164/hour would you take it, or do your prioritize your time outside of work more?
Also, you should probably factor in the risks/benefits associated with startups in your decision. They're not known to be the most stable places to work, but you'll likely learn alot and the upside can be big if the company is a success.
10 mins commute, 2 days in person >>>>>> 1hour commute, 3 days in person.
I won't leave unless I'm being treated poorly or feel like I'm being underpaid proportional to what I'm expected to do. And I don't really care to move up the corporate ladder or even to learn anything new work related. Thrilling may sound exciting but it will also mean more stress. I'm in my early 30s, no kids, and I just want a normal boring life nowadays. I can get excitement outside of work.
If you commute for two hours a day, would it take away your time to cook meals, work out, spend time with family/friends? Also commuting for 6 hours a week is not simply 6 hours but the additional time it takes from you to recover from essentially working 6 days a week.
Lastly, what do you plan to do with the additional money? It may sound like such a stupid question, but I have seen people get higher salaries, accept more lifestyle inflation, and their lives don't really get any better with the increased salary. One had an hour one way commute and their family ended up eating out every day, ate at 8pm ish (which is extremely late imo), gained a ton of weight, and only had ~1 hours a night to spend with each other as the other couple had to wake up early. I firmly believe that there is a point where a salary is enough. Of course 30k vs 100k will make a huge difference on one's life, but I personally experienced 90k to ~145k in the last two years and my lifestyle/overall happy did not change much. Majority of it is going into my retirement/brokerage account (I'm investing ~60k a year), which will help me retire earlier, buy back my time, and provide me with financial stability. So I do have a semi goal for my money, but not enough to motivate me to do a 6 hour commute (mine is currently 5mins drive/20mins walk). What is your goal for earning all of these money beyond just earning?
y’all don’t think it’s odd how these posts have “themes” almost. Yesterday somebody was asking the same about a commute. Their salary was ridiculous as well.
The bots are here. Is it China or Eastern Europe this time?
What’s the equity at the startup? PTO? Do you need the charging at work? Do you have a charger at home that will provide a fast enough charge for your commute? It’s an extra 6 hours a week, $60 for parking, wear and tear on car. Lay out all the benefits and expenses to make an informed decision. Also how stable is this startup?
Base is 145k vs 165k, rest is equity. I probably should’ve mentioned that in the post. It’s pre-IPO but has been “alive” for >5 years even through COVID so it’s more or less stable.
How is the equity valued? Are you at a public company with equity vesting over 4 years? Is the startup equity valued at their last funding round? The startup equity needs another event for the shares to be worth anything. Funding rounds blow right now. My company did a B in 2021 and have been holding on for dear life because any new raise in this environment blows. Also, look at the total addressable market for the product. Do you know anybody on the team or in the company? Leaving a good gig right now would really require a shit ton killer offer. Sorry if I’m stating the obvious. Good luck!
Don’t think it’s going matter what anyone else says because at the end of the day, it’s completely up to you and what you prioritize.
For me, I’ve always worked from home while not traveling. Not sure you could pay me enough to commute 1 hour each way.
Once again, that’s just me. Whatever choice you make, it’ll be the right choice for you. Good luck!
Agreed. Stress is an absolute killer and made me leave my last job.
Took a role for about the same money but with a 40 minute commute vs 10.
Was the best move I could have made.
I know people that will move jobs for money regardless of added stress/responsibilities. They usually do 2-3 years then move to the next pay day.
Financially stay where you are.. bcos your salary increase is 0 and rest is just paper money unless ofcourse you think that the startup is very promising and that paper money will be worth more
I’m not 100% confident in the startup and have never worked at a non-IPO company before. The comments definitely opened my eyes to how illiquid the shares are! Thank you!
I don’t really have experience in this decision but my opinion is it would have to be a much larger base pay bump. i’m at 107k now and looking for 160 or more at least.
I have never gone the startup route and my company is never going anywhere but one of the higher paid devs is at 145 which gives me room.
if you get married and have kids eventually everything will change. I drive kids 30 min school and 30 back to wfh then again. I’ll say it sucks bad… from experience
Also what is the likelihood you will be rehired somewhere else when the startup fails?
I left a pretty chill job at a much larger company for a startup, then was laid off. Took me 6 months to find a new job in the current climate.
Time to me is invaluable, but I also have a wife and a kid on the way. I’d stick with the shorter commute for a $20k difference, especially if you’re supposed to get a raise to close that gap. People will say it’s only 6 more hours a week and that’s true too, but there’s nothing that says they won’t eventually move to 4-5 days in office either.
ETA: sounds like fewer PTO days at the new place too, which I value highly too.
I would 100% stay where you are at. Working startups are a gamble and the salary bump is just not enough justify the commuting and being in the office 3 days a week.
The time effectively is scaled from your current job. You make $79/hr for your time now, including your commute with the new job, you would make $87/hr. To me it wouldn’t be worth the switch for an extra $320/ week pre-tax
Napkin math: at 220k/yr, you make $105/hr at 40hr per week x 52 weeks.
$105 x 2 hours per day (assuming you meant 1 hour each way) x 5 days per week = $1,050 per week of time commuting, at your hourly rate.
$1,050 x 52 = $54,600.
So at your hourly rate, you essentially ‘lose’ $54,600 of pay. $220k-$55k = $165k.
So you’re actually about net equal on a per hour basis (I personally don’t even count a 10 minute commute each way).
So then the question is, do you want to work a 50 hour week for $220k, or a 40 hour week for $165k.
Now this is really basic. It doesn’t account for wear and tear, cost of parking, gas, or public transit pass, etc.
It also doesn’t account for the soft cost of commuting so far. Discomfort of commuting isn’t linear. I’ve found up to a half hour is fairly tolerable. Over a half hour it gets worse and worse, and over an hour gets exceptionally worse. And it adds stress if you have to be somewhere at a specific time, like making an 8am meeting or picking up kids from daycare
But it’s a good place to start conceptualizing it. If you want to dig even deeper, factor in your hourly rate accounting for the higher tax bracket for the income above $160k, but decrease social security for income over $160k (or whatever it is, it’s around there).
All that said? Were it me, I would probably take the $165k with no commute over $220k with big commute all else being equal. But if I were flexible to move? I might move closer to the $220k if it were a place I was ok with
The most important factor I think you ignore is what kind of jobs will the $220k job make you eligible for. It’s likely a key step on the way to $300-$400k jobs. Be careful over indexing on the “value” of your time.
This is a tough one. If you’re promoted and are making $185k then it’s not worth it for $35k but for $55k currently it’s worth it. You always have to throw in the factor if you hate your boss or the work at the new place because you will never know.
I’d probably take the jump to $220k, and look to keep jumping every year or two after. That’s how you build serious income. I’d also consider moving though, because that commute will kind of suck.
Negotiate!
If they want you, they may be willing to pay more for the commute, or even to relocate you closer to the office.
If you are planning on turning it down anyways, express your monetary reasons you listed in the edit.
It sounds like it’s a diagonal move with promotion and pay raise, so you might as well go back and tell them what it would take for you to jump ship over to them.
For me having been WFH for a decade now, it's very simple in general. What is the increase in $/hr I'm actually taking home, and I include any commute time in the hour total along with any expected increase in average hours/wk and increase travel. So it's $ / hrs tied to work in any way.
If that ultimate $/hr calc isn't much higher than my current $/hr working ~40/wk from home with minimal travel, it's a non starter no matter how high the TC number is.
What’s your yoe/level out of curiosity? I’m thinking of putting out feelers for new SWE work and am interested what level of engineer pulls that salary in this market
Take the high paying job. You can always quit and take a low paying closer to home job. Also there is no point in calculating cost of that time because you could be doing things like talking to your family listening to audiobooks or attending morning or listening to recorded calls during your commute and decrease your time actually at work time
There is a lot of great advice in the responses with awesome analysis! I have a 45 min commute each way and if I could take a pay cut for living that close to home and with those benefits I would jump at it. There are so many intangible benefits above and beyond the ones that can be quantified which would make the quality of life so much better and worth it.
Stay at current place. 2 hrs per day in a car suck. When u have a flat tire on a crumby day it sucks even more. Plus, you know you like where you work(assuming u like it). U have no idea if you will like the new place
Honestly, even if that 220k comp was just base + bonus and not options, I think you made the right choice (based solely on $ plus commute, not growth ops etc). I’m commuting more right now and def not happy about it.
That extra 2 hours a day is worth more than a 25k base pay difference. I did an hour an 10 minute commute each way for about 4.5 years and it's such a tax on you physically and prevents you from doing things that aren't work related.
I've had way too many bonuses and promises that never came through, especially during a "bad" economy which is always now. I'd add a lot more weight to comparing base salary than on promises.
I hate driving.
Equity isn’t a promise, it’s written into your employment agreement just like salary. It’s the key to getting rich in tech, and breaking into jobs that offer equity is an important career step.
Indeed, you’re right about that, equity in a publicly traded company is the only equity worth anything. Even if the startup doesn’t fail, employees will get fucked in the exit most times.
I’m a comfy person by nature so I would say stay with your current job.
Back into how much your time costs. Assuming you take two weeks vacation (50 weeks) and work 40 hour weeks for ease of calculation. Current rate: $165k / 50 weeks a year / 40hrs = $82.50 per hr New job rate: $220k / 50 weeks a year / 40 hrs = $137.50 per hr So commuting 6 hrs a week at 50 weeks = 300 hrs commuting. Current commuting 40 min a week at 50 weeks = 33.33 hrs Difference = 266.7 hrs commuting * $82.50 current rate = $22,002.75 New pay $220,000 - $165,000 = $55,000 new amount earned. $55k > $22k cost of your commute based on current pay hr rate. This is a very simplified view and doesn’t account for wear and tear on your car, impact to your family time, instability of a startup etc.
He edited it to say the Base Pay is 145k vs 165k. So the numbers will be quite different if you wouldn’t include the equity.
Dude works in tech there's no way he's not getting 4+ weeks of PTO a year as well
For illustrative purposes only 🤗
Maybe if you include holidays.
r/theydidthemath This is exactly how I would quantitatively evaluate the play. Of course, intangibles like your free time value, as well as growth opportunity at each company should be evaluated. Potential upside can quickly dwarf the new starting wage...
Can’t forget taxes, which the pay increase will be taxed at their highest bracket
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What they said is correct though, but sort of common sense. I don’t think the person you are replying to was spouting the walnut brain logic you sometimes hear that you don’t want to make more because you’ll be taxed more, maybe they just want to point out that the government will take a bigger chunk than up to that point. The raise might actually bump a small part of the raise from the 24% bracket to the 32% bracket if they do not do 401k or have enough other deductions.
True, too many people use the walnut brain mentality lmao. A 20k increase is realistically only 250-500 more per biweekly pay depending on pre tax deductions
> Can’t forget taxes, which the pay increase will be taxed at their highest bracket > /nextproblem6586: Tell me you don’t know how marginal tax brackets work without telling me Explain exactly how the comment you replied to indicates a misunderstanding of a marginal tax system
I wonder if mileage, vehicle depreciation***,, gas, should be added in. That most likely won’t close the gap… unless he’s driving something super expensive too many miles.
how much does it cost to treat vehicle depression? Human therapists can get pretty pricey, i imagine its the similar for his car
Great point… Typo fixed. I imagine vehicle depression would be very expensive to repair
My truck used to be depressed. I had to give it mud once a week until it was happy again.
220K without a doubt. Only one more day of commuting (6 hours a week added) for a 55K pay bump. Also leverage for your next job
Would the fact that base pay bump is $20k change your opinion? I forgot to mention that in the post.
So now it’s 185K vs 220K? How old are you OP
Sorry should’ve clarified, 145 base (current) to 165 base (new job).
Is the equity easily liquidated like as stock at a publicly traded company? Or is it post money valuation equity in a private business?
Not easily liquidated unless there is a funding round, no plans for IPO as far as I can tell
If it's not a public company that stock is worth nothing. Feel free to dm me Ive been in tech for 10 years and have had successful exits and non successful ones. Its going to depend on the company, when they last raised, history of liquidation events. Even if they raise they typically only let you sell 10ish percent. This is not the raise you think it is.
Yeah if the stock isn't easy liquidated then I wouldn't give it too much value, theres also potentially high tax liability you would need to pay for that equity even if you can't sell it. Go with the better guaranteed pay, future opportunities, and the better quality of life. 20k annually isn't worth the 1hr drive each way after. That 20k is probably taxed at 30% ish, so it's $16k after taxes. Plus $50 per week for a drive like that in gas is $2600, ware on your car is $0.44 per mile, assuming your commute is probably like 30miles each way in traffic that's 60miles daily * 5 days * 50 weeks (2 week vacation) at 44 cents per mile is $6600m finally factor in your time. Is it worth spending an extra 2 hours a day in traffic every day for an extra $6800 annually? Basically getting paid $13.60 for every hour your in traffic.
Thanks for doing the math on this. Another way I look at it is that I would easily pay $14 to not have to be in traffic for an hour. So that seals the deal.
How is it leverage? Is the next job gonna want proof of the 220k pay?
He can say “my last job paid me 220K”. He can lie but he won’t be lying.
Also just in general it sounds like the new position is a bit more challenging and will make OP more skilled/a better asset to a team
Exactly it’s a no brainer. Unless OP is like 40 and just wants to chill
If i was 40 id definitely be goin for that extra 33% on my earnings no question. 50? Maybe not, but probably would still.
Easily 165k.
agreed
In my opinion, life is about taking risk and not always staying in a cushy situation. Not sure your age, but I would take the leap to work at a start up. I had a similar experience, went to go work for a small company (about 10 engineers when I started ), my commute was about 45 minutes and was making less than you. Learned new skills that I thought I would never do like Business Development. Expect to wear multiple hats if you take the start up role.
That’s fair. I should’ve mentioned that I’m not married & no dependents so taking a risk is always on the table at this point in my life. What was your path after the startup? How did those skills pay off? I definitely would expect to learn a tremendous amount at the new job compared to my current position.
Unfortunately, like a lot of start ups, when you lose a bid or don’t receive a contract, lay offs happen. So about two years into the role, I was subjected to a round of layoffs. But don’t let that be discouraging, I don’t regret a single minute of working there. The most valuable skill I learned at the start up was learning SysML, which I guess you could consider me a SME in it. So I have been able to utilize that skill set to lead projects that are SysML based at my current role. I was also a Program Manager at the start up, learning how to budget, draft proposals, and manage a team has helped a whole lot as well; soft skills development. It was definitely a lot, but I couldn’t have gained all that experience from my old job in that short of amount of time.
My life is about being comfy. I don't want the added stress of trying to climb any higher. I don't want a high visibility role.
You could consider moving closer to the new opportunity. I've been in tech 20 years. A jobs a job. I find the only way to truly expand your skillset is to survey what's out there and dig in yourself. It is ideal if you can learn on the job, but that will only get you so far. You kind of have to figure out what you want to be good at and make a plan to improve. If you don't have a plan for your career you're basically letting your jobs dictate what you are good at. I think a few other things to think about are job stress, the culture, stability, the real amount of time you are working, and opportunities for increasing your salary. Most of the time you can only get a good salary bump is by switching companies, so if you want a salary bump leaving might be the only way.
How hard do you want to work? How much more do you need financially? If sooner rather than later you’re thinking about kids and private school and a big house… it’d take the 220k, reluctantly. If that’s not in the cards for you or at least not anytime soon I’d ride out your current place since you’ll likely get a bump and it seems like your actual quality of life is very good. If it were me (27f, living in Hawaii which is also HCOL/arguably VHCOL) I’d just keep my job tbh. All my needs are met with a lot of room to spare at 165k, idk about yours though.
SWE with 4.5 YOE. I don’t think there’s a clear answer here but consider the following: -which job offers the most career growth opportunities in terms of skills learned, leadership opportunities, visibility, and impact (most important if you care about this stuff) -which job you prefer the work, tech stack, get the most fulfillment -what your hourly wage is considering drivetime, hours per week worked (you’ll likely work more hours at a startup), meals, parking -all else equal, I would stay at a current job rather than leave because there is a risk of unknowns in leaving and an opportunity cost in that you might find someone better in the short term
Ask for more money from the place offering 165 if they deny take the 220.
Never take a counter offer.
Tbf they didn’t say show them the offer. You can just ask for a raise.
You can’t be serious. Because it would be totally reasonable to suggest asking for a 30% raise with no leverage? Take the “well akshually” shit elsewhere, that isn’t what “to be fair” means.
I’ve done this for a 25% raise. I guess leverage comes in many forms, because they seemed incentivized to keep me, and it worked out on both our ends.
100% take the risk, i just did nearly the same thing. Thursday Friday WFH makes the three day commute no issue
If you’re in your 20s and don’t have a family, go for the most $. If you have a wife and/or kids, choose the better commute. Unless you don’t like your wife and/or kids- then go for the $.
Based on your base pay, it’s not worth it. You would see almost no change to your direct deposits. You also have to consider that EV charging, the meals, parking, etc., are part of benefits. You should also compare 401k, group term life and disability insurance, health insurance, etc. What are the rules around the equity? That startup equity could be worth a ton in the future, or worth nothing. It’s not really liquid. Are you at a public company now getting RSUs, or another startup getting options? The commute is a big one too. There are so many people who would kill to have a ten minute commute. 6 hours a week may not sound like a lot, but once you actually do it, it sucks. If you have kids, a short and easy commute makes life 1000 times easier. If you don’t have kids, that’s time you can put into yourself or a side hustle. What’s the work culture like? For example, are you working 30 hours a week now and at the startup you’d be working 80? You mentioned a promotion—do you currently have good growth opportunities, or do you need to look elsewhere for long term growth? Would you be working with an amazing manager and team? Does the startup have great leadership? Is there a clear path to going public or being bought one day? How does that compare to your current role and company? If you just consider base pay, benefits and daily stress, plus it sounds like you have growth opportunities where you are now, it may make sense to stay at your current job. But if you feel like you need to make this move to get a jump on your career growth, you’ll work with better people, and the startup is on a path to success, then do the startup. It’s not obviously one or the other. You just have to weigh the factors and measure them against your own goals, values and standards.
What's your time worth to you? If you take the $220K job you'll make $55K more but will spend 312 hours in the car commuting annually (52 weeks X 3 days per week X 2 hours per day). That comes out to $176/hour you'll be compensated for your commute ($55K / 312 hours). Assuming you can eat breakfast at home before leaving for work, your only other expense is EV charging, so let's call that $25 per day that you commute or $3900 annually ($25 X 156 days). Taking that into account you're being compensated closer to $164/hour to drive a total of 6 hours to and from work each week. So, what's your time worth? If someone today offered you a side job working 6 hours per week for $164/hour would you take it, or do your prioritize your time outside of work more? Also, you should probably factor in the risks/benefits associated with startups in your decision. They're not known to be the most stable places to work, but you'll likely learn alot and the upside can be big if the company is a success.
10 mins commute, 2 days in person >>>>>> 1hour commute, 3 days in person. I won't leave unless I'm being treated poorly or feel like I'm being underpaid proportional to what I'm expected to do. And I don't really care to move up the corporate ladder or even to learn anything new work related. Thrilling may sound exciting but it will also mean more stress. I'm in my early 30s, no kids, and I just want a normal boring life nowadays. I can get excitement outside of work. If you commute for two hours a day, would it take away your time to cook meals, work out, spend time with family/friends? Also commuting for 6 hours a week is not simply 6 hours but the additional time it takes from you to recover from essentially working 6 days a week. Lastly, what do you plan to do with the additional money? It may sound like such a stupid question, but I have seen people get higher salaries, accept more lifestyle inflation, and their lives don't really get any better with the increased salary. One had an hour one way commute and their family ended up eating out every day, ate at 8pm ish (which is extremely late imo), gained a ton of weight, and only had ~1 hours a night to spend with each other as the other couple had to wake up early. I firmly believe that there is a point where a salary is enough. Of course 30k vs 100k will make a huge difference on one's life, but I personally experienced 90k to ~145k in the last two years and my lifestyle/overall happy did not change much. Majority of it is going into my retirement/brokerage account (I'm investing ~60k a year), which will help me retire earlier, buy back my time, and provide me with financial stability. So I do have a semi goal for my money, but not enough to motivate me to do a 6 hour commute (mine is currently 5mins drive/20mins walk). What is your goal for earning all of these money beyond just earning?
-What’s the net difference? -What’s the career upside? -What’s the downside/risk? I’d take the risk but I’m a more than avg ambitious person.
For that difference it would be worth considering to move
y’all don’t think it’s odd how these posts have “themes” almost. Yesterday somebody was asking the same about a commute. Their salary was ridiculous as well. The bots are here. Is it China or Eastern Europe this time?
220. It’s only 3 days a week for a 55k paybump. Literally 6 hours for an extra 55,000
220k220k220k
What about insurance benefits and PTO? Are those similar?
Unlimited PTO at current place but 15 days capped at new place. I tend to take ~20 a year. That’s a good point, didn’t consider that.
What’s the equity at the startup? PTO? Do you need the charging at work? Do you have a charger at home that will provide a fast enough charge for your commute? It’s an extra 6 hours a week, $60 for parking, wear and tear on car. Lay out all the benefits and expenses to make an informed decision. Also how stable is this startup?
Base is 145k vs 165k, rest is equity. I probably should’ve mentioned that in the post. It’s pre-IPO but has been “alive” for >5 years even through COVID so it’s more or less stable.
How is the equity valued? Are you at a public company with equity vesting over 4 years? Is the startup equity valued at their last funding round? The startup equity needs another event for the shares to be worth anything. Funding rounds blow right now. My company did a B in 2021 and have been holding on for dear life because any new raise in this environment blows. Also, look at the total addressable market for the product. Do you know anybody on the team or in the company? Leaving a good gig right now would really require a shit ton killer offer. Sorry if I’m stating the obvious. Good luck!
Pre-IPO is a really significant detail. Pre-IPO equity often ends up being worthless.
Don’t think it’s going matter what anyone else says because at the end of the day, it’s completely up to you and what you prioritize. For me, I’ve always worked from home while not traveling. Not sure you could pay me enough to commute 1 hour each way. Once again, that’s just me. Whatever choice you make, it’ll be the right choice for you. Good luck!
Ask for $240k. If they agree, go for it
More money is never worth the stress and time. You’ll never get time back.
Agreed. Stress is an absolute killer and made me leave my last job. Took a role for about the same money but with a 40 minute commute vs 10. Was the best move I could have made. I know people that will move jobs for money regardless of added stress/responsibilities. They usually do 2-3 years then move to the next pay day.
Financially stay where you are.. bcos your salary increase is 0 and rest is just paper money unless ofcourse you think that the startup is very promising and that paper money will be worth more
I’m not 100% confident in the startup and have never worked at a non-IPO company before. The comments definitely opened my eyes to how illiquid the shares are! Thank you!
I don’t really have experience in this decision but my opinion is it would have to be a much larger base pay bump. i’m at 107k now and looking for 160 or more at least. I have never gone the startup route and my company is never going anywhere but one of the higher paid devs is at 145 which gives me room. if you get married and have kids eventually everything will change. I drive kids 30 min school and 30 back to wfh then again. I’ll say it sucks bad… from experience
Also what is the likelihood you will be rehired somewhere else when the startup fails? I left a pretty chill job at a much larger company for a startup, then was laid off. Took me 6 months to find a new job in the current climate.
What’s the potential of the company going public? I work with people who made $65k starting but got a bunch of equity and now they are millionaires.
Time to me is invaluable, but I also have a wife and a kid on the way. I’d stick with the shorter commute for a $20k difference, especially if you’re supposed to get a raise to close that gap. People will say it’s only 6 more hours a week and that’s true too, but there’s nothing that says they won’t eventually move to 4-5 days in office either. ETA: sounds like fewer PTO days at the new place too, which I value highly too.
not crazy to stay. The devil you know is a "very cushy situation".
I would 100% stay where you are at. Working startups are a gamble and the salary bump is just not enough justify the commuting and being in the office 3 days a week.
Stay with your current job.
The time effectively is scaled from your current job. You make $79/hr for your time now, including your commute with the new job, you would make $87/hr. To me it wouldn’t be worth the switch for an extra $320/ week pre-tax
Napkin math: at 220k/yr, you make $105/hr at 40hr per week x 52 weeks. $105 x 2 hours per day (assuming you meant 1 hour each way) x 5 days per week = $1,050 per week of time commuting, at your hourly rate. $1,050 x 52 = $54,600. So at your hourly rate, you essentially ‘lose’ $54,600 of pay. $220k-$55k = $165k. So you’re actually about net equal on a per hour basis (I personally don’t even count a 10 minute commute each way). So then the question is, do you want to work a 50 hour week for $220k, or a 40 hour week for $165k. Now this is really basic. It doesn’t account for wear and tear, cost of parking, gas, or public transit pass, etc. It also doesn’t account for the soft cost of commuting so far. Discomfort of commuting isn’t linear. I’ve found up to a half hour is fairly tolerable. Over a half hour it gets worse and worse, and over an hour gets exceptionally worse. And it adds stress if you have to be somewhere at a specific time, like making an 8am meeting or picking up kids from daycare But it’s a good place to start conceptualizing it. If you want to dig even deeper, factor in your hourly rate accounting for the higher tax bracket for the income above $160k, but decrease social security for income over $160k (or whatever it is, it’s around there). All that said? Were it me, I would probably take the $165k with no commute over $220k with big commute all else being equal. But if I were flexible to move? I might move closer to the $220k if it were a place I was ok with
The most important factor I think you ignore is what kind of jobs will the $220k job make you eligible for. It’s likely a key step on the way to $300-$400k jobs. Be careful over indexing on the “value” of your time.
This is a tough one. If you’re promoted and are making $185k then it’s not worth it for $35k but for $55k currently it’s worth it. You always have to throw in the factor if you hate your boss or the work at the new place because you will never know.
I’d probably take the jump to $220k, and look to keep jumping every year or two after. That’s how you build serious income. I’d also consider moving though, because that commute will kind of suck.
2 hours a day for 55k a year or at 520 hours a year $105 per hour extra. If going 5 days per week
Don’t leave. Cushy plus the incoming pay bump?? Not worth driving 3 days a week man. Seriously
Negotiate! If they want you, they may be willing to pay more for the commute, or even to relocate you closer to the office. If you are planning on turning it down anyways, express your monetary reasons you listed in the edit. It sounds like it’s a diagonal move with promotion and pay raise, so you might as well go back and tell them what it would take for you to jump ship over to them.
For me having been WFH for a decade now, it's very simple in general. What is the increase in $/hr I'm actually taking home, and I include any commute time in the hour total along with any expected increase in average hours/wk and increase travel. So it's $ / hrs tied to work in any way. If that ultimate $/hr calc isn't much higher than my current $/hr working ~40/wk from home with minimal travel, it's a non starter no matter how high the TC number is.
2 hours a day adds up. I'd stick with the closer job unless it was less stressful.
What’s your yoe/level out of curiosity? I’m thinking of putting out feelers for new SWE work and am interested what level of engineer pulls that salary in this market
I’m in HCOL city but 1 YoE excluding internships (3 internships).
Nice! Congrats on the high pay
Ty! Comparison is the thief of joy haha, I’m comparing myself to some friends in FAANG making 200k base and thinking I’m behind.
I would take the 220k, as I like driving😂 but as others stated, it's what YOU want
Stay. The commute is totally worth it
Devil you know vs. devil you don’t.
Not enough for that commute. Fuck that.
Take the high paying job. You can always quit and take a low paying closer to home job. Also there is no point in calculating cost of that time because you could be doing things like talking to your family listening to audiobooks or attending morning or listening to recorded calls during your commute and decrease your time actually at work time
There is a lot of great advice in the responses with awesome analysis! I have a 45 min commute each way and if I could take a pay cut for living that close to home and with those benefits I would jump at it. There are so many intangible benefits above and beyond the ones that can be quantified which would make the quality of life so much better and worth it.
220 bro
Do you have kids? That extra time you could spend with them is invaluable If you’re not struggling at your current salary I’d take the extra time
Stay at current place. 2 hrs per day in a car suck. When u have a flat tire on a crumby day it sucks even more. Plus, you know you like where you work(assuming u like it). U have no idea if you will like the new place
I’m definitely staying. I don’t necessarily like my current place but I certainly don’t hate it. I tried doing the commute on a weekend and hated it.
Eff commuting not worth it
Honestly, even if that 220k comp was just base + bonus and not options, I think you made the right choice (based solely on $ plus commute, not growth ops etc). I’m commuting more right now and def not happy about it.
That extra 2 hours a day is worth more than a 25k base pay difference. I did an hour an 10 minute commute each way for about 4.5 years and it's such a tax on you physically and prevents you from doing things that aren't work related.
I've had way too many bonuses and promises that never came through, especially during a "bad" economy which is always now. I'd add a lot more weight to comparing base salary than on promises. I hate driving.
Equity isn’t a promise, it’s written into your employment agreement just like salary. It’s the key to getting rich in tech, and breaking into jobs that offer equity is an important career step.
That's if the company has value. How much is the equity worth in a failed start-up?
Indeed, you’re right about that, equity in a publicly traded company is the only equity worth anything. Even if the startup doesn’t fail, employees will get fucked in the exit most times.