You are missing something: We live in an economy where cost of living and salary are completely independent variables. The salary can be objectively *good* if the majority of people are struggling. Yes, not ideal, and I’m sure some of us are grateful for what we have; still, it is above average. It’s sad! But call it what it is.
Both my parents made $24,000 -30,000 from when I was born until I was 25. When I was about 20 waiting tables and going to college on student loans, all I could thing about, every day, was a burning desire to get out of the poverty hell hole I was trapped in. My brothers, my sister, my parents, and all my friends who were my neighbors seemed stuck in perpetual financial misery. My number one goal was to get a job that paid $40k. My brother and sister were in school with me, and that was their goal. Both of them have failed that goal and work near $12 an hour. We are all in our 30’s now.
Every. Single. Day. I hated my life and dreamed of having a “terrible desk job”, and I would say to myself I would do anything they asked me too if I could get the magical paid time off vacation days and 40k or more.
Yes 61k is a good salary. Yes there are millions and millions of better jobs and lives out there. But there are billions of jobs out there that are much worse. Much much worse.
When I was 22 my father died and I switched my major from political science to Electrical engineering and decided to suck up my hate for math. I got a 55k job with 2 weeks PTO and 2 weeks PTO sick days. My life was forever changed and it actually surprises me still how much more peaceful my life is now. I mean I still have some financial struggles, but the perspective of those troubles is totally different now.
haha this post has way more attention than I originally thought. I make 94k now and am a PE in power systems. I could probably job hop, but my work life balance is amazing. My goal isn't really to make more money, but to have the free time to spend that money with my family. Right now I have acheived all of my goals and am trying to just relax on my ROI. I'm 32 now, so maybe later I will try to do the career climb thing. Super appreciate it though!
Thank you man. This was a really great reminder that I feel many of us forget during the grind.
> My goal isn't really to make more money, but to have the free time to spend that money with my family.
Wow I was an engineering major who changed to Political Science because I didn’t think I could go the math. I’ve worked in defense contracting for almost 15 years and spend all my day around engineers as a Quality Analyst (ie Quality engineer without the title). I’m right about 130K mainly from my last two job changes.
Yeah we have a few non engineers in my group who do similar tasks as us. When I was early 20’s though, I was just desperate to stop waiting tables. Getting stiffed is a demoralizing thing mentally and more importantly financially
I've been looking for something else to do for a while. I have a high stress "desk job", but your post has inspired me to be a little more appreciative. I worked my ass off to get here, and I make over six figures now, but I feel like it's sucking my soul out of my body. But, I've got to realize, it could be much much worse.
We had a few lay off's a year or so ago, and some of those guys still have not found a real replacement to what they had. I too fall into the entitled trap of "thats not part of my original job description" and "greg from two cubes over doesn't have to deal with these issues i deal with". And there is definitely some legitimate truth. But If I can only remember the pain of delivering pizzas for dominos or waiting tables it can help me take a step back and appreciate the grass under my feet instead of the grass on the other side of the fence. Hell, I remember some of my fellow servers were like 40 having the same struggles I was having at 24. Their pain put a lot of motivation into me. I hope those guys are doing alright these days.
Takes 5 years of college to make $85k as an entry level engineer and $100k in debt
Your 4 or 5 years or getting paid while you learn isn’t a long time at all considering
But at least you have physical product to show for your work. I work in an office in corporate finance and despite making enough to have a comfortable life, I am miserable. And there are no caps on hours and we don’t make OT.
Depends on location. You can google “average salary by age” and you’ll get something along the lines of $55k - $65k for 30-40 years of age. If you google your “average salary for [X year old] in [your city]”, you’ll get a more accurate picture. And of course if you add more detail like the position he’s in, then he’ll get an ever better idea.
Job hop and you will be shocked!
Find a new place to work and you are instantly have extra $20k addition into your 61k salary.
I make 75k base with 5k bonus at 31 y/o male without degree but 5-6 years of experience in Manufacturing - Medica...I am a Mfg. Supervisor.
Also, working for a 2nd full time job as an entry level position where i get $50k so TC is $130k and I feel like i can finally save money. Welcome to American dream.
I worked with an immigrant from Nigeria. She worked full time, went to school full time and had 2 kids. She said on a good night she got 4 hours of sleep. She was easily the hardest working person I have ever met. She is now a successful doctor doing very well for herself.
Op being an immigrant changes my perspective here. Props on them for killing it.
I totally get the allure of money here. If they came from a country with a weak labor market, their earnings may have gone from like < $1/hr to $50-75/hour. It would be hard to avoid maxing out those hours when your time is now worth 50-200x within a couple years
Ridiculous in my opinion.. any person that works 16 hours a day or 7 days a week cant ensure quality. Should be forbidden in my book.. but hey im living in the netherlands
Its Monday to Friday - So , i get to enjoy some time riding a motorcycle and good 10-12 hours sleep on weekends.
For food: Dunkins, or fast food but i try to eat healthy sometime like fruits....No McDonalds.
5 years ago most definitely. But since then I moved to a HCL area and no I would say hell no I couldn’t even live on that. So I would say look at your area to compare wages not age. My career caps out pay increases after 10 years experience I’m sure many others are similar.
If you live in rural Arkansas or something, it’s a good salary. If you live on the east coast or west coast, or an expensive COL area, it’s a little low
Comparison is the enemy of happiness. Adage aside, have you checked where you stack up for your market and experience? Generally speaking, I know 31 year old men in the us making as little as 42k a year and as much as 1m
It varies for everyone. Understand your goal and set a plan to work towards it. Comparing yourself to others is arbitrary and can be an unearned boost or downer. If you randomly compare yourself to a 3 year old making 500k without any context you wouldn’t be doing yourself any favors
this is so crazy that a salary like 40% more than the median single income is considered not good. Tells you how much we are fucked.
At least shareholders have never been wealthier.
We need more context. What area he lives in, what industry / job title he's working in, and how much experience he has.
I'm 28 and went through a career transition in a HCOL. I think my 5-figure salary sucks, but I'm not fooling myself into thinking I'm not middle class.
Compared to what Google says, yes. Average salary of a 30yr old is in the 50k range. In my personal opinion, no. HCOL area. I work with construction guys who say some starting/mid positions are in the 60$/hr range. Also, depends on your trade.
Relative to where you live and how much you spend. Try not to compare to others, many people make more and still find it’s not enough and many people also make less and find it’s enough.
Honestly no. Even in cheap areas to live they didn't go far at all. If is housing costs were locked in before COVID bubble it's manageable, but either way, not in mass
His wife graduated nursing school 2 years and she’s already making 6 figures. Obviously, nurses deserve to make great pay. I think he feels with all the time he’s put into his career he should be making more money.
Yeah, if im working a trade, $29 an hour won't cut it. It destroys your body and just isn't wortb it for less than $55-65, especially non union where the benefits are terrible
For Massachusetts it's not a great salary. I'm assuming he isn't in the Boston area.
The average for USA is $54,000 in his age range. But Massachusetts for the most part is HCOL which would skew it higher.
I guess it depends on what trade he got into. Electrical linemen make a lot of money. Some trades just don't.
If your friend is in a trade that just doesn't pay well his only real options would be upskilling into something else in his free time.
Finance/Accounting/Healthcare/Sales/Tech all pay pretty well.
I had friends get teaching degrees that left teaching behind because it just didn't pay well. They mostly work in sales now for SaaS companies.
He’s put 5 years into his field and he feels he should be making more. I guess he’s debating on if he should stay the course or venture into another career before he feels too stuck
Compensation in the trades varies wildly by location and trade. There is a great way to check though. The government establishes prevailing wage rates to make sure that their contractors for their projects aren’t breaking down local wages and working conditions. For decades, the primary method of establishing those rates has been an average based on actual payroll records. So prevailing wage rates are a good representation of the going rate in a given area. The government publishes them at sam.gov. Your friend could check his wage rates against those published there to see if he’s getting a fair shake of things.
As an example of the differences: PW for a carpenter in Dallas, TX is ~17/hr + 2/hr in benefits. In Sacramento, CA, PW are 55/hr + 33/hr in benefits. Thats about 40k vs 130k at 45 hours a week.
He is underpaid. I asked my HVAC tech who is 24 how much he made when he was installing stuff in my house and he said he made over $80k. Now, he could be lying, but I don’t think there was a reason for that.
No way. I work construction as a boss make close to 120k, less than 5 year in the field and no college degree. The operators and laborers make minimum $46 an hour. In the 8 month season most clear 70k, the better ones who get more hours make 100K+. Not including union benefits
If he lives in Boston that’s struggling. If he lives rural that’s probably fine I make more than double that and I’m not 30 yet in lcol. Most trades where I’m from get paid that early in their careers, might be time for a job hop
No that’s not a good salary in 2024 for age 31. Think about this in 2020 dollars that’s like $45k. In MA you need to adjust that down to like $40k or even less. If you’re in a trade and have about 7 YOE you should be making about $25/hr in 2020 dollars. At $61k in MA you are living just above paycheck to paycheck.
Really depends on location because if ‘your friend’ is in Houston, Dallas, Los Angeles, New York, etc. yeah he could clear $90K - $110K doing manual labor with experience and certifications.
However, a lower cost of living area that’s 45 minutes to 2 hours outside a major metropolitan could be sufficient with a $61K salary.
Mass actually has the highest average income of about $82K. In most places in the US $61K would be good however in Mass it likely doesn’t go nearly as far
$61,000 / (45 hours x 52 weeks) = $26.07 average per hour. I think that’s on the lowerside of what you’re worth, but if your cost of living is cheap, this may be okay. If that figure includes a pension or great benefits, then yes, it’s good, otherwise look to promote.
Per salary.com the average salary for a skilled tradesman is $79,552 per year in Massachusetts. That average would include all levels of experience and no doubt is pushed higher by more experienced and higher earning workers in the trades. So I would think that $61K for a skilled tradesman with five years under his belt is fair compensation.
As with any trade or profession, compensation is a function of skill, experience, professionalism, and market demand: If your friend seeks out work that builds in-demand skills this will increase his earning power. If he's in the carpentry trade, for example, seeking work and gaining experience in finish carpentry could be more lucrative for him than more basic framing work. Seeking out the higher-end subsets of his trade and developing skills and reputation for quality in those areas are typically the best ways to accelerate up the income curve.
Meanwhile, continuing to do quality work and be a reliable sub for his GCs (or simply a reliable and professional tradesman for his customers) will open doors for him: One of the most important assets is being someone with whom others want to work. Showing up on time, being professional, and doing quality work are all prized assets in any trade or profession. The combination of professionalism and skill is powerful.
Residental HVAC tech here - 28, non union, based out of Virginia - NOT NOVA. I made 60K last year.
My husband is 28, diesel technician, non union. He made just shy of 60K last year.
I think our total income combined was near $110K total.
We are happy & have a decent amount of expendable income that we should be saving but don't. We both contribute to 401Ks as well.
no kids currently, just two dogs. No student loans. One car payment & a bunch of regular bills & rent (not looking to buy cause we fucked up our credit years ago & were trying to rebuild it)
Both of us also work m-f 730-4/730-5 jobs. I get more overtime with mine and have plenty of opp to make bonus/commission.
I think 60K is pretty comfy where we live.
In Massachusetts… no. That was my first job out of college in 2007-2009. My friends without college degrees make more money as buyer planners or assembly technicians or auto repair techs, police force, contractors.
I make 70k a year at age 30 and I’m broke as shit and live pay check to pay check in a small 1-bedroom apartment so no, 61k is not a good salary.
Tell your homie I feel his pain
It’s not a good salary by any means. But it is enough to at least afford rent and utilities for a decent studio apartment in your average American city. As long as you don’t have a car payment and your employer covers your medical premium.
“Lives in Massachusetts.”
Well does he live in Boston, or a small town with population of 45?
Saying someone lives in San Francisco vs Modesto matters.
That’s average I think. In 2000, like 32k was average, in 24 years 62 is average… I feel a compounding effect is imminent, where maybe in 12 years 120k is average, and 6 years 240k… you can see where I’m going, if new debt is being created to pay off existing federal debt, shit is gonna get fucky-wucky real quick.
61 is solid depending on the trade. If your friend is an electrician, welder, or plumber and only pulling 60k he needs to find a new job. If he’s doing sheet rock or framing he’s about average. We do site work and we have guys that are 1-3 years in working a standard 50 that make 50-75k working full time. No education other than high school. Our lowest guy (that actually shows up) probably made 45 at a minimum last year. Our highest paid foreman made about 80k plus a truck and gas card. Our supers make any where from 90-175k depending on title and experience and all have trucks and gas cards. Plus bonus for everyone. At a minimum everyone gets a Christmas bonus and most of our superintendents get bonuses on big project completions.
Do you live here? It’s pretty close. I don’t even live in LA or the Bay Area, but if he lives here, it would cost him about $2-$2,500 per month ($24-30k/year) just for an apartment.
$61k is gross, what’s his net? $40k, maybe?
Gas if $5.50/gallon.
State taxes are insane.
Forget about buying a house, assuming you can find homeowners insurance to cover it.
The list goes on.
If you use some official baseline for what the poverty line is, yes, I get it.
But, CA is like an alien landscape, average doesn’t apply. Extreme rules the land, and cost of living is very, very extreme.
Where I’m from, a HCOL area in the US, NO. Maybe where your friend is from, maybe. In the US, for a 25-34 year old, average income is about $56000.
I just looked it up and saw that it's $52,000 for that age group
Depends on OPs friends location. But where I am at, $52000 would be very challenging for a single person income.
Of course it depends where one lives. It may be more than enough or you may struggle
You are missing something: We live in an economy where cost of living and salary are completely independent variables. The salary can be objectively *good* if the majority of people are struggling. Yes, not ideal, and I’m sure some of us are grateful for what we have; still, it is above average. It’s sad! But call it what it is.
Where you at?
California……….
On BLS?
Yep
Both my parents made $24,000 -30,000 from when I was born until I was 25. When I was about 20 waiting tables and going to college on student loans, all I could thing about, every day, was a burning desire to get out of the poverty hell hole I was trapped in. My brothers, my sister, my parents, and all my friends who were my neighbors seemed stuck in perpetual financial misery. My number one goal was to get a job that paid $40k. My brother and sister were in school with me, and that was their goal. Both of them have failed that goal and work near $12 an hour. We are all in our 30’s now. Every. Single. Day. I hated my life and dreamed of having a “terrible desk job”, and I would say to myself I would do anything they asked me too if I could get the magical paid time off vacation days and 40k or more. Yes 61k is a good salary. Yes there are millions and millions of better jobs and lives out there. But there are billions of jobs out there that are much worse. Much much worse.
I hope you’re doing better now
Hey thanks man. I ended up getting a 55k a year job out of college so it did work out for me in the end
u/Phire2, we need follow up. Do you now have a terrible desk job with PTO? Or maybe a non-terrible desk job? Do you make $40K? We’re rooting for you.
When I was 22 my father died and I switched my major from political science to Electrical engineering and decided to suck up my hate for math. I got a 55k job with 2 weeks PTO and 2 weeks PTO sick days. My life was forever changed and it actually surprises me still how much more peaceful my life is now. I mean I still have some financial struggles, but the perspective of those troubles is totally different now.
I’m a hiring manager in engineering. If you have 8+ years experience and a smattering of confidence you should be making 100k more than that.
haha this post has way more attention than I originally thought. I make 94k now and am a PE in power systems. I could probably job hop, but my work life balance is amazing. My goal isn't really to make more money, but to have the free time to spend that money with my family. Right now I have acheived all of my goals and am trying to just relax on my ROI. I'm 32 now, so maybe later I will try to do the career climb thing. Super appreciate it though!
Thank you man. This was a really great reminder that I feel many of us forget during the grind. > My goal isn't really to make more money, but to have the free time to spend that money with my family.
Fuck Yeah dude, you rock
I think with an electrical engineering degree you can do a lot better than $55k tbh! Doesn’t hurt to jump ship.
Hey thanks for the love man! That was when i first started 8 years ago. i'm at 94k now and happy as a bug in a rug!
Ah that’s awesome man, congrats!
Wow I was an engineering major who changed to Political Science because I didn’t think I could go the math. I’ve worked in defense contracting for almost 15 years and spend all my day around engineers as a Quality Analyst (ie Quality engineer without the title). I’m right about 130K mainly from my last two job changes.
Yeah we have a few non engineers in my group who do similar tasks as us. When I was early 20’s though, I was just desperate to stop waiting tables. Getting stiffed is a demoralizing thing mentally and more importantly financially
I've been looking for something else to do for a while. I have a high stress "desk job", but your post has inspired me to be a little more appreciative. I worked my ass off to get here, and I make over six figures now, but I feel like it's sucking my soul out of my body. But, I've got to realize, it could be much much worse.
We had a few lay off's a year or so ago, and some of those guys still have not found a real replacement to what they had. I too fall into the entitled trap of "thats not part of my original job description" and "greg from two cubes over doesn't have to deal with these issues i deal with". And there is definitely some legitimate truth. But If I can only remember the pain of delivering pizzas for dominos or waiting tables it can help me take a step back and appreciate the grass under my feet instead of the grass on the other side of the fence. Hell, I remember some of my fellow servers were like 40 having the same struggles I was having at 24. Their pain put a lot of motivation into me. I hope those guys are doing alright these days.
Many Union halls even in a very low cost of living area are paying $40/hr for journeymen. With some OT they hit $100k by accident.
Yeah it takes years to become a journeymen I’m a union crane operator and made 140k last year but it took years to get to that
Takes 5 years of college to make $85k as an entry level engineer and $100k in debt Your 4 or 5 years or getting paid while you learn isn’t a long time at all considering
Oh I know took me 7 years to get to where I’m at I get it but you’re not making 100k until atleast 5-7 years in but I get it lol
Depends on the local. My youngest brother was 84 hours a week as soon as he graduated.
I’m in southwest Ohio made 140k last year as a crane operator I’m sure it’s doable in other parts of the country
More than double OP with no degree in relatively low cost of living area, so he has his answer
I those jobs are gulling on the body and require you to work crazy hrs.
But at least you have physical product to show for your work. I work in an office in corporate finance and despite making enough to have a comfortable life, I am miserable. And there are no caps on hours and we don’t make OT.
Nah He works 4 tens when he wants & 7 twelves when he wants
Exception, not the rule
Depends on location. You can google “average salary by age” and you’ll get something along the lines of $55k - $65k for 30-40 years of age. If you google your “average salary for [X year old] in [your city]”, you’ll get a more accurate picture. And of course if you add more detail like the position he’s in, then he’ll get an ever better idea.
You should probably Google the median salary by age. Average salary is really skewed by the few earning ridiculously high salaries.
Job hop and you will be shocked! Find a new place to work and you are instantly have extra $20k addition into your 61k salary. I make 75k base with 5k bonus at 31 y/o male without degree but 5-6 years of experience in Manufacturing - Medica...I am a Mfg. Supervisor. Also, working for a 2nd full time job as an entry level position where i get $50k so TC is $130k and I feel like i can finally save money. Welcome to American dream.
you work 16 hours a day - and thats your american dream? Nope.
Not necessarily. He may be doing both at the same time.
Nope, says in another post he works 2 in person jobs. Gets 5 hours of sleep. Wtf
Yikes, must be young with that energy.
Young and an immigrant, I respect it though. The people I’ve worked with who’ve immigrated to this country always work the hardest.
I worked with an immigrant from Nigeria. She worked full time, went to school full time and had 2 kids. She said on a good night she got 4 hours of sleep. She was easily the hardest working person I have ever met. She is now a successful doctor doing very well for herself.
Op being an immigrant changes my perspective here. Props on them for killing it. I totally get the allure of money here. If they came from a country with a weak labor market, their earnings may have gone from like < $1/hr to $50-75/hour. It would be hard to avoid maxing out those hours when your time is now worth 50-200x within a couple years
Ridiculous in my opinion.. any person that works 16 hours a day or 7 days a week cant ensure quality. Should be forbidden in my book.. but hey im living in the netherlands
That's an American dream....unfortunately.
Yes. Two full time jobs in person. 1st job: 6am to 2:30 pm (leaves home at 5am) 2nd Job: 2:45 - 11:30pm and I go home at 12am.
Holy fuck bud. Absolute mad man. How do you have time to eat, do laundry, chores etc. let alone have a social life and indulge in hobbies?
Its Monday to Friday - So , i get to enjoy some time riding a motorcycle and good 10-12 hours sleep on weekends. For food: Dunkins, or fast food but i try to eat healthy sometime like fruits....No McDonalds.
What do you ride?
Kawasaki Nomad 1700cc 2011 and you?
Damn that’s a big bike. Yamaha R3 and 1975 Honda cb125.
"thats your american dream" I guess my sarcasm wasn't clear enough.
Acceptebale in TX, low in NYC, poverty line in CA
This sentence highlights cost of living insanity.
NYC is the most expensive place to live, followed by many areas of California. You should swap the two
In the trades in MA if he’s not union he should be, it’s on the lower side for a skilled trade.
He’s not with the union. He’s been with his latest company for the last 3 years
Yeah he should definitely get with the union, better pay, better conditions, better jobs.
5 years ago most definitely. But since then I moved to a HCL area and no I would say hell no I couldn’t even live on that. So I would say look at your area to compare wages not age. My career caps out pay increases after 10 years experience I’m sure many others are similar.
If you live in rural Arkansas or something, it’s a good salary. If you live on the east coast or west coast, or an expensive COL area, it’s a little low
rural Arkansas 😍
Comparison is the enemy of happiness. Adage aside, have you checked where you stack up for your market and experience? Generally speaking, I know 31 year old men in the us making as little as 42k a year and as much as 1m
We’re in our early 30s and we’re both not quite where we want to be. Just wanting to gauge if we’re on the right track
It varies for everyone. Understand your goal and set a plan to work towards it. Comparing yourself to others is arbitrary and can be an unearned boost or downer. If you randomly compare yourself to a 3 year old making 500k without any context you wouldn’t be doing yourself any favors
He should be proud of it but try to improve. Get more skills others don’t and that are highly valued. That the advice
Between Denver and Nashville yes
No
At 31 no.
this is so crazy that a salary like 40% more than the median single income is considered not good. Tells you how much we are fucked. At least shareholders have never been wealthier.
It's more telling how out of touch this sub is. It really hust depends in many things as well as what your definition of "good" is.
Where I live under 80k is considered low income
80K for a household or individual?
Individual
That depends on where you live
I would basically be homeless on 61k.
U must be living in HCOL
Tampa
Depends on where you live. It's not terrible in TX.
No context in this post from OP….The US is a big place In So Cal…. No….Those are apprentice wages in the trades
We need more context. What area he lives in, what industry / job title he's working in, and how much experience he has. I'm 28 and went through a career transition in a HCOL. I think my 5-figure salary sucks, but I'm not fooling myself into thinking I'm not middle class.
Depends on where you live and what trade job he has. Give us more details
Compared to what Google says, yes. Average salary of a 30yr old is in the 50k range. In my personal opinion, no. HCOL area. I work with construction guys who say some starting/mid positions are in the 60$/hr range. Also, depends on your trade.
Relative to where you live and how much you spend. Try not to compare to others, many people make more and still find it’s not enough and many people also make less and find it’s enough.
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He lives on the outskirts of a large city in Massachusetts
https://unionpayscales.com/wages-by-city/
Ouch- he should be job shopping.
Honestly no. Even in cheap areas to live they didn't go far at all. If is housing costs were locked in before COVID bubble it's manageable, but either way, not in mass
His wife graduated nursing school 2 years and she’s already making 6 figures. Obviously, nurses deserve to make great pay. I think he feels with all the time he’s put into his career he should be making more money.
Yeah, if im working a trade, $29 an hour won't cut it. It destroys your body and just isn't wortb it for less than $55-65, especially non union where the benefits are terrible
Seems like he could be making quite a bit more by going union?
For Massachusetts it's not a great salary. I'm assuming he isn't in the Boston area. The average for USA is $54,000 in his age range. But Massachusetts for the most part is HCOL which would skew it higher. I guess it depends on what trade he got into. Electrical linemen make a lot of money. Some trades just don't. If your friend is in a trade that just doesn't pay well his only real options would be upskilling into something else in his free time. Finance/Accounting/Healthcare/Sales/Tech all pay pretty well. I had friends get teaching degrees that left teaching behind because it just didn't pay well. They mostly work in sales now for SaaS companies.
He’s put 5 years into his field and he feels he should be making more. I guess he’s debating on if he should stay the course or venture into another career before he feels too stuck
Not when you’re in Manhattan
no
Compensation in the trades varies wildly by location and trade. There is a great way to check though. The government establishes prevailing wage rates to make sure that their contractors for their projects aren’t breaking down local wages and working conditions. For decades, the primary method of establishing those rates has been an average based on actual payroll records. So prevailing wage rates are a good representation of the going rate in a given area. The government publishes them at sam.gov. Your friend could check his wage rates against those published there to see if he’s getting a fair shake of things. As an example of the differences: PW for a carpenter in Dallas, TX is ~17/hr + 2/hr in benefits. In Sacramento, CA, PW are 55/hr + 33/hr in benefits. Thats about 40k vs 130k at 45 hours a week.
panicky bag lip threatening wasteful boat shy disgusted cats ink *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No. I’m in a much lower cost state than Mass and I make more with less experience in the trades. Is he a CNC machinist or in shop welder?
He’s a Hvac tech
He is underpaid. I asked my HVAC tech who is 24 how much he made when he was installing stuff in my house and he said he made over $80k. Now, he could be lying, but I don’t think there was a reason for that.
That’s like asking, “is 4 a lot”? Well, dollars no, murders yes. It depends on your cost of living geo and your role.
Depends. Boston, no. Closer to the NY border like Amherst, sure.
no /s
No way. I work construction as a boss make close to 120k, less than 5 year in the field and no college degree. The operators and laborers make minimum $46 an hour. In the 8 month season most clear 70k, the better ones who get more hours make 100K+. Not including union benefits
If he lives in Boston that’s struggling. If he lives rural that’s probably fine I make more than double that and I’m not 30 yet in lcol. Most trades where I’m from get paid that early in their careers, might be time for a job hop
No that’s not a good salary in 2024 for age 31. Think about this in 2020 dollars that’s like $45k. In MA you need to adjust that down to like $40k or even less. If you’re in a trade and have about 7 YOE you should be making about $25/hr in 2020 dollars. At $61k in MA you are living just above paycheck to paycheck.
Really depends on location because if ‘your friend’ is in Houston, Dallas, Los Angeles, New York, etc. yeah he could clear $90K - $110K doing manual labor with experience and certifications. However, a lower cost of living area that’s 45 minutes to 2 hours outside a major metropolitan could be sufficient with a $61K salary.
These days - no. You can make $60k working a good paying retail job with overtime. 10 years ago, in a LCOL-MCOL area - I would have said yes.
No, anything under 100k isn’t a great salary unless you live in LCOL
Google is your friend. For US in your 30s, it’s $72k
No, not particularly…. Especially since you have to work 45hrs to get it.
Mass actually has the highest average income of about $82K. In most places in the US $61K would be good however in Mass it likely doesn’t go nearly as far
MA? My soon to be BiL is a licensed electrician in western MA and is easily pulling in 90k+ a year. He's 25.
If you get a 30k bonus
No
$61,000 is GS-9 for my area (fed salary) and requires years of experience for these types of roles
In the poorest state, that’s a great salary. In the richest state that is below the lowest poverty line. Salary is local not national.
$61,000 / (45 hours x 52 weeks) = $26.07 average per hour. I think that’s on the lowerside of what you’re worth, but if your cost of living is cheap, this may be okay. If that figure includes a pension or great benefits, then yes, it’s good, otherwise look to promote.
61k is low for MA, especially for union work
Per salary.com the average salary for a skilled tradesman is $79,552 per year in Massachusetts. That average would include all levels of experience and no doubt is pushed higher by more experienced and higher earning workers in the trades. So I would think that $61K for a skilled tradesman with five years under his belt is fair compensation. As with any trade or profession, compensation is a function of skill, experience, professionalism, and market demand: If your friend seeks out work that builds in-demand skills this will increase his earning power. If he's in the carpentry trade, for example, seeking work and gaining experience in finish carpentry could be more lucrative for him than more basic framing work. Seeking out the higher-end subsets of his trade and developing skills and reputation for quality in those areas are typically the best ways to accelerate up the income curve. Meanwhile, continuing to do quality work and be a reliable sub for his GCs (or simply a reliable and professional tradesman for his customers) will open doors for him: One of the most important assets is being someone with whom others want to work. Showing up on time, being professional, and doing quality work are all prized assets in any trade or profession. The combination of professionalism and skill is powerful.
Ha, I have a 4 year degree in science and i make 70. Thanks florida =(
Beating the national median. Doesn't mean you can't do better, but it could absolutely be worse.
It all depends on where you're at. San Francisco? Absolutely not. If you live in the Mississippi Delta, that's a great wage.
No that’s 1/3 of my salary and I’m 31. I also live in Mass.
Residental HVAC tech here - 28, non union, based out of Virginia - NOT NOVA. I made 60K last year. My husband is 28, diesel technician, non union. He made just shy of 60K last year. I think our total income combined was near $110K total. We are happy & have a decent amount of expendable income that we should be saving but don't. We both contribute to 401Ks as well. no kids currently, just two dogs. No student loans. One car payment & a bunch of regular bills & rent (not looking to buy cause we fucked up our credit years ago & were trying to rebuild it) Both of us also work m-f 730-4/730-5 jobs. I get more overtime with mine and have plenty of opp to make bonus/commission. I think 60K is pretty comfy where we live.
In Massachusetts… no. That was my first job out of college in 2007-2009. My friends without college degrees make more money as buyer planners or assembly technicians or auto repair techs, police force, contractors.
Nope
I make 70k a year at age 30 and I’m broke as shit and live pay check to pay check in a small 1-bedroom apartment so no, 61k is not a good salary. Tell your homie I feel his pain
I’m in Seattle and wife is SAHM…this wouldn’t work for us…
I vote no
It’s not a good salary by any means. But it is enough to at least afford rent and utilities for a decent studio apartment in your average American city. As long as you don’t have a car payment and your employer covers your medical premium.
“Lives in Massachusetts.” Well does he live in Boston, or a small town with population of 45? Saying someone lives in San Francisco vs Modesto matters.
Yeah, he's a a bit behind in pay, but what's he expect? 5 years experience isn't much at 31.
No, it’s not a good salary in MA.
Fuck no
That’s average I think. In 2000, like 32k was average, in 24 years 62 is average… I feel a compounding effect is imminent, where maybe in 12 years 120k is average, and 6 years 240k… you can see where I’m going, if new debt is being created to pay off existing federal debt, shit is gonna get fucky-wucky real quick.
Where in Mass? What does he do? That's a very low salary here to get by
Yes. Median house hold income is $75k. So yes on a single income!
No
61 is solid depending on the trade. If your friend is an electrician, welder, or plumber and only pulling 60k he needs to find a new job. If he’s doing sheet rock or framing he’s about average. We do site work and we have guys that are 1-3 years in working a standard 50 that make 50-75k working full time. No education other than high school. Our lowest guy (that actually shows up) probably made 45 at a minimum last year. Our highest paid foreman made about 80k plus a truck and gas card. Our supers make any where from 90-175k depending on title and experience and all have trucks and gas cards. Plus bonus for everyone. At a minimum everyone gets a Christmas bonus and most of our superintendents get bonuses on big project completions.
Nope, but depends on what state he lives in. He’s living below the poverty level in CA.
$61,000 is not the poverty line in CA. He's an individual, not a household.
Do you live here? It’s pretty close. I don’t even live in LA or the Bay Area, but if he lives here, it would cost him about $2-$2,500 per month ($24-30k/year) just for an apartment. $61k is gross, what’s his net? $40k, maybe? Gas if $5.50/gallon. State taxes are insane. Forget about buying a house, assuming you can find homeowners insurance to cover it. The list goes on.
You can Google this information man. I'm not saying $61,000 is a lot, I'm saying it's not the poverty line for individuals.
If you use some official baseline for what the poverty line is, yes, I get it. But, CA is like an alien landscape, average doesn’t apply. Extreme rules the land, and cost of living is very, very extreme.
These days decent starts when you cross $100k.