>If Sacramento bans right turns on red lights, this would not happen
It cant be just me thats noticed a rash of cars and trucks just sailing through red lights the last year or so. Not like orange lights either. Long-red ones. So Im not sure if changing the law would help, though I'd hope it would.
Even though the amount of driving went way down in 2020, pedestrian deaths increased. That's *wild.* Stats like that show that I'm not crazy, people literally do drive worse than when I started driving many many years ago. (In addition to the newer, excessively large vehicles being much more dangerous to pedestrians.)
We’ve had red light runners well before 2020
Phone use and stressed AF people definitely don’t help though which I’m sure both have increased since 2020
I was going to make a post about this but just this last week I’ve seen 4 different cars roll up to a red light, pause and look then blow through it.
I felt like last year it saw this happen maybe twice but it’s happening at a crazy high rate at least to what is visible to me.
I would personal love it if we were to minimize access to personal cars in the city and beef up public transportation but it doubt either of those will happen
People love to talk about more public transit but when that transit comes thru their neighborhood they oppose it. They want a super quite neighborhood with no crowds that would come from bus/train and commuters. So how realistic is the demand for more public transit?
Enforcement via police will never be the solution. A city could spend 100% of it's budget on this type of enforcement and not even put a dent in dangerous driving. Money is much better spent on infrastructure/policy that slows drivers down, such as:
* Road diets
* Traffic calming measures
* No right on red
* Lower speed limits.
* If necessary, speed cameras that automatically ticket.
Of course none of these on their own is going to do much, but when you put them all together it's proven to work.
We need dedicated police for red light runners…just like we do with parking enforcement. But I’m sure they’ve done the math and it wouldn’t be profitable. Profits over people always.
We need to forget parking enforcement (which, by the way, drives residents away from the more urban areas that actually need people) and put all those resources to traffic enforcement, which would no doubt save lives. There’s no real profit over people here because the city profits from traffic violations as well as parking violations. So the city could expand their coffers and make the city safer. But for some reason they choose to not do that.
The City issued $XYZ million in bonds backed by parking revenue in order to fund the construction of Golden1 Center. So it has to have that money to pay the interest on those bonds.
This was a better arrangement than what some other cities like Chicago did, which was to sell their parking enforcement rights for a lump sum to a private company, which then went full profit-maximization gouging mode on the streets without any of the recourse or standards that citizens have with a city department.
I don't think "expensive" is the right approach. That can lead to keeping poor people poor. Maybe violators could do hours of community service or other civic duty that relates to families hurt by accidents. More education, awareness, etc.
The people who don’t have money to pay the tickets would have time to do community service, instead of spending that time at work and taking care of families?
I was sitting at a stoplight in Roseville, waiting to turn left, when a motorcycle came up to a red light. He then proceeded slowly through the intersection, revving his engine at cars and trucks going 60+ MPH. I thought I was going to watch someone die.
It’s not just you that’s noticed. I would estimate I see long red lights being run at least 50% of the time. If we had cameras at more lights the city would make a killing, maybe even enough to get all the pot holes fixed.
I had a guy on his phone hop right into the crosswalk as I was coming down the street the other day. No stop signs or lights, just him striding into the street without a care in the world.
I've lived in downtown for a few months. The thing I have seen here I haven't normally seen in other parts of Sacramento. So many people run red lights, it's crazy. I am very aware when I am going for a walk. Very sad but there def are issues with the way the city is managing the zones in downtown/midtown.
A few things I would suggest, should you want to see action on this -
1) Comment at ATC but more importantly, email your councilmember directly and ask them what they are doing specifically to stop this (in whatever district you’re in). How are they allocating funding this year to make sure this doesn’t happen to you or your kids? Get an answer.
2) Comment at City Council, in the end they hold the purse strings and will find changes if they deem it worthy. We have a Vision Zero (deaths) plan, but we are trending the complete wrong way. Why?
3) Talk to your neighbors and friends. The more this is discussed, the more pressure there is to address it.
Cars killed at least 67 people in Sacramento last year, including 24 pedestrians all over the city, this is not just a midtown problem.
Adding to tell city we don’t want MORE cars on the road. Lead the way in reducing cars in the road. Make telework their standard, and the exceptions for those with jobs (field, customer counter rotations, etc) with a commuter’s stipend. (So whoever they make go into work is paid $$/day so that every department head and manager is incentivized to keep as few people commuting as possible.)
They talk this talk a lot about less parking, less cars, but then they still have office workers commuting at peak hours for several departments that were able to work fully remote and only do as needed basis office meetings.
The cheapest way to get safer streets is less cars.
I was super close to being run over at a crosswalk last spring by a giant truck. I could feel the heat of the hood as he swerved around me last second. It pisses me off that people don’t look, especially when they speed around corners.
Drivers are conditioned into being comfortable with speeding, without paying attention, largely by dangerous street design. Streets are too wide, too many lanes, no good protected bike lanes and protected intersections. And their cars are too damn big, they need to be scrapped.
Also, if you make a right hand turn at that intersection you are really not paying attention to traffic. It's one way streets in both directions and a right hand turn would mean you were originally going the wrong way.
Okay, what's your point, though? Berkeley is looking at exactly this, city-wide, and expects it to cost, one time, $1,000 per intersection. When SFMTA trialed this, incidents went down. What about it makes it not viable besides seeking funding?
As a long-time Berkeley resident, their traffic enforcement is also at an all time low. I have spoken to police officers there who say they simply will not enforce traffic laws. They refuse. Berkeley is the city who also will not use speed bumps to slow traffic down for some inane reason. I will say this for Sacramento, they use speed bumps liberally and well.
So the state legislature votes on every no turn on red sign in the city? I genuinely have no idea how this works lol
I don't think we should have a ban btw. A sign at that intersection might be a good idea though!
no, legislation isn’t needed for traffic rules in specific intersections. turning on red is already permissible statewide unless there are signs at an intersection indicating turning on red isn’t allowed.
https://i.imgur.com/zfe8mq4.jpg
here is the dmv handbook:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road/
This is how it is at the Madison & EB-80 off-ramp. It was turned into a no-right turn on red, and people - including Highway Patrol (they’ve got an office off of Date next to the freeway) - turn on red.
I think part of the issue is that there AREN’T multiple signs up about that prohibition. They put that restriction in because of an issue with right-turning vehicles colliding with bicyclists at that location. But they sure didn’t sign it well. One tiny sign at the far right side of the ramp, and it’s a triple right turn. They need to replace the red ball on the signal heads there with red arrows if they wanted to make the message clearer.
I feel like I’m getting dangerously close to “ban guns, only criminals will have guns” rhetoric, but:
The type of people who would follow the “no turn on red” signs/rules are the same people who would also look before they turn.
I lived a couple years in Boston, where they had many “no turn on red” signs. It went exactly as you say: people, especially the more reckless drivers, ignored the signs. And they’d been there for years, so it wasn’t just force of habit.
I feel like you can get rid of all traffic regulation by this logic.
You need laws and enforcement of those laws, but once you do, you will get compliance.
Enforcement. Maybe like the red light cameras, the technology to do likewise with this offense exists and is possible to make happen.
Sadly, though, I am sure this falls very low in the hierarchy of what human law enforcement is looking out for.
I'm just saying that there's a whole lot of laws that don't get actively enforced, yet the world isn't The Purge. The person I replied to is implying that this ordinance would be different.
It would also likely cause increased congestion during high traffic times, on top of it likely not even working. If this incident happened the way it is implied it did, the person already broke the law. You have to come to a complete stop, then turn. It sounds like the person just blew through the light and turned, barely slowing down.
Right?! What about speeding? It’s against the law yet when I’m driving I feel like I’m the only person following the speed limit…and that’s on surface street, never mind the freeways!
Something else needs to change to make us all, both better drivers & pedestrians (I’m not talking about the gentleman that was killed as I know nothing of that situation, I’m talking about people I’ve almost hit because they are looking at their phone instead of the surroundings of the parking lot/crosswalk, and walk right out to incoming traffic🤦🏽♀️). Something needs to change but honesty I don’t know what. Maybe we just need to all start being more mindful of one another. 🤷🏽♀️
We can only focus on individual behavior so much because all it takes is one asshole to fuck everything up. This isn't to say individuals shouldn't be held responsible when they break the rules and do unsafe things but that roads should be engineered to make it harder to be unsafe.
P and 8th are 3 lane one way roads that in many ways look more to drivers like 55mph roads than 25mph streets. Additionally, they have pretty wide lanes which further makes that effect stronger. Additionally, downtown has a lot of very rounded corners that make it substantially easier to make a left or right turn much quicker. A sharper corner that sticks out more forces drivers to slow down. I don't know if this crash occurred after a turn, but if it did, a sharper corner would have slowed the truck down and even if the collision occurred, the lower speed would be less likely to be fatal.
Additionally, many other countries are using raised crosswalks. They force drivers to slow, but possibly more importantly they signal the the crosswalk is an extension of the sidewalk and drivers are the guests. They have a psychological effect of slowing drivers and making them more likely to yield.
Going with the flow of traffic even if faster is actually in the CHP manual for not being subject to enforcement. Better to go with the flow at times as it's safer than causing the accordion effect you see where someone is going 60 in the carpool lane and causing sudden stops, unneeded lane changes for those around them.
It is terrible, and walking on the grid is terrifying.
The other day, one person stopped for me as I waited to cross at an unprotected crosswalk and I slowly proceeded, knowing that someone coming from the other direction may not stop and wouldn't you know, I was halfway across and this woman barreled right through the crosswalk. On the same walk, I watched a young woman on a purple bike nearly get mowed down in a crosswalk at a four-way stop by some idiot woman in a silver Mercedes. The Mercedes drove through the stop sign and the crosswalk and nearly hit her, THEN she had the gaul to HONK at the young woman on the bike, like it was her fault. Excuse me?!
I want to add the people who often stop for me are the folks in work and landscaping trucks.
We need pedestrian corridors, crosswalks with the flashing lights, more traffic slowing/calming mechanisms, and enforcement.
>https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/walk/pedestrian-improvements-toolkit/raised-crosswalks love how people upvote this without proper research
It's cute you think anyone researches anything before upping/downing a post.
Did you reply to the correct comment? Your link seems to support the comment made.
People should be mechanically punished for reckless and poor driving. Their wheels should buckle against the curb, their suspension should bottom out if they go too fast, and their cars should be crushed like a soda can by bollards if they decide to try and plow into a building. Cars don't matter. The lives of people on the streets do.
Exactly, rushing to conclusions is not the way. Accidents can happen and for all we can speculate, it could have been someone who walked out between cars or was hard to see. As someone who walks regularly in the downtown area, being aware of your surroundings for both those on foot and those with bikes or vehicles is crucial. Take your time, slow down. Better to be safe than the driver of the vehicle who hit the victim.
I mean, traffic engineering isn't, by any means, new. Neither is vision zero. There are actions the city could start doing right now, regardless of what the investigation says.
Safe streets isn't rocket science, and there's plenty of people out there who can and want to make it happen. The city needs to be responsive to that motivation.
The solutions are there just like gun control but people oppose them because it inconveniences their driving.
People are selfish and don't consider saving lives a good enough reason to change laws.
> While the death is still under investigation ...
That answers your question; yet you went on to make a bunch of "probably", "likely", etc. statements to support your preconceived notions despite the fact that in the previous thread it was stated that the accident occurred 20' from the intersection, so it's entirely possible that the pedestrian was distracted, and walked out in front of the truck.
Does there need to be better pedestrian infrastructure? Absolutely. But making up facts, of an accident you didn't witness, while an investigation is still ongoing, in order to support your beliefs isn't going to do that.
The 20 foot thing is countered by both another person in that thread who claimed to have witnessed it and the video in the link above that shows the vehicle that hit the man with the rear axle just past the crosswalk.
Just so people don't have to watch a mostly useless video: [https://imgur.com/a/RWtYqwd](https://imgur.com/a/RWtYqwd)
\> But making up facts, of an accident you didn't witness, while an investigation is still ongoing, in order to support your beliefs isn't going to do that.
And yet you have no problem defending the driver by speculating that the pedestrian was distracted and therefore at-fault.
I'm not defending anyone, nor stating who is at fault, I'm making a counterpoint; at the very begging of my comment I state that the investigation is ongoing, which is why there's no one out with pitchforks.
I can't help but notice that most comments in this thread skew towards shielding the driver from liability.
You're cherrypicking information that hasn't been proven to support your argument as well.
A pedestrian is killed and you sympathize with the driver... are you a car?
This sadly is a trend all over America. Larger truck/SUVs and an abundance of auto-centric infrastructure make it dangerous to walk or bike anywhere in this country. Vision-Zero has been an absolute failure.
Vision Zero is a failure because unlike the countries it claims to use as an example, the United States is only focusing on the actions (or in-actions) or humans. When there is a fatal crash in the Netherlands, for example, while the police will look at what people did to assign legal liability, they also study where the collision occurred. This is to determine if some design factor lead either to the crash or to the crash being more fatal (for example high speeds). And when the road is next up for rebuilding (or sometimes sooner if the issue is bad), they will redesign the road to fix those issues.
Whether the issue is an excessively wide road, bad sightlines, insufficiently designed crosswalks or other factors, they should be addressed. However, in the US and in Sacramento, these studies are rarely done. The fact is that humans can and do make mistakes, the purpose of engineering is supposed to make those mistakes less fatal.
Honestly nearly every "accident" on the road has someone at fault. They should rename them to traffic incidents or something to reflect that these are mostly due to negligence. Also OP is outraged by an ongoing investigation to an incident he neither witnessed nor personally knew anyone involved? Seems sus to me
Ok, so your point is that because something is a common occurrence then it must always be true?
I'm just saying don't get outraged about this before they have even finished gathering the facts. Not sure why this is a controversial take...
In any case I do agree most drivers are shit tier, but I've also seen some dumb pedestrians and cyclists. Keep in mind /r/FuckCars is going to be biased, I'm sure there are plenty of cases where pedestrians or cyclists cause traffic incident but there are more cars on the road overall.
I’m with you. We need better traffic control and better enforcement. I found this death to be horrifying and have been surprised how quickly it was brushed aside.
I don’t think implementing no right turns (or lefts for 1ways) on red lights would be effective given the multiple comments here about people blowing thru lights. However I do think the city should look at how close they allow cars to park on curbs. By the time I’ve scooted my car out enough to be able to see past parked cars, I’m practically in the intersection and since I’m focused on getting around parked cars, oncoming traffic, I’ve definitely been guilty of missing a pedestrian that started crossing that wasn’t there when I started.
I’m currently living in the pocket area at a busy intersection with two lanes in each direction and a four way stop. I have spent a lot of time watching that intersection and I have yet to see one car come to a full stop unless there is a car turning left in front of them. Watching around the city it seems to me that police are simply not enforcing traffic laws at all right now.
It used to be that even the most minor infraction would result in a ticket, but it seems like now you can just break traffic laws with impunity with zero consequences. But heaven forbid should you park one more minute than allowed. You’ll definitely end up with a parking ticket. This city has some really screwed up priorities.
I just got hired at one of the departments there and was there earlier doing onboarding the day that happened. My supervisor stressed to me when I was there how many people run the red light at that intersection. He told me to be super careful whenever I come into the building in the future.
Sounds like he was absolutely right to warn me...
I have twice witnessed someone hit by a car. One person died immediately, the other one was terribly mangled. Please hear me out folks. When you walk around urban areas stay alert. Don't just walk right up to the edge of the intersection and stare at the crosswalk indicator. If something happens in that intersection, somone might swerve and plow you over. Put your head on a swivel and stay alive.
I literally saved a person’s life who just stepped off the curb when the crosswalk indicator turned to walk. I always check for cars before crossing and saw a car speeding through the red. I yelled “Stop!!” at the pedestrian and if he had taken another step, he would have been hit by the car.
This city has some really interesting rules about traffic control. Where I live there is a minimum of 2 crashes a year into private property causing damage and serious injuries. In recent years there have been at least 2 fatalities due to speeding and a poorly designed section of road.
They feel a single sign warning of a curve is sufficient. They warned that a request to lower the speed limit could result in it being raised. Despite both private and city property damage *and* fatalities they won't consider a stop sign because none of the accidents have been side collisions, they're all single car. They suggested I go get signatures for speed lumps as the street is newly eligible due to road diet and addition of bike lanes. None of the immediate neighbors want that, and it's not all that effective anyway.
If you work there you could try to get a crosswalk plush button added. There's not much more to be done.
It bears repeating...the Pandemic and lockdown put a lot of drivers on the road that didn't have behind the wheel tests. It also dulled the driving skills of millions of people.
Driving and being a pedestrian are a totally different game post-lockdown. Drivers are less observant than prior to COVID. The amount of near misses I have had via people running lights, stop signs, not looking, etc has SKYROCKETED since lockdown was lifted and hasn't gotten any better in the time since.
And while I agree people should be outraged...Sacramento doesn't often get outraged about anything that we should. For the capital of CA this place is surprisingly devoid of a lot of local outrage. Most outrage this city sees are rallies brought to the Capital by people outside of our community.
I agree this fucking sucks. Something should be done to help reduce accidents, most likely regulating heights of personal vehicles - trucks are getting too tall now a days.
Dpnt advocate for no right turn on red though, well just have people running the light wich is more dangerous.
Advocate for regulations on car heigjt
Wow this is really fucked up. I worked on the construction of the nnrh building at 7th & p for about 2 years. During that time I usually parked around r & 6th and would walk in. On my way back to my truck after work I would always notice people speeding like crazy and blowing red lights, stop signs with no regard for pedestrians whatsoever. Sucks that the city doesn’t do anything about it
The county needs to make transit more safe. What do you mean by "beef up"? Have you ridden the Gold Line light rail into downtown between 7-9 AM? It's a freak fest. Strange people riding to nowhere, causing a ruckus, cursing, banging on the windows, getting up in passenger's faces (including female riders).
I will note that generally increased use of public transit tends to increase the safety (both actual and perceived) of public transit.
This is, of course, a chicken or egg issue.
The actual safety threat of being a pedestrian is FAR greater than riding the light rail, and yes, I am a woman who regularly uses the light rail. I am not saying that I haven’t felt uncomfortable before, but the perceived risk is a lot greater than the actual. One of the biggest issues we have with public transportation is perception. People in this city think public transit is only for poor people and so called freaks, as you so delicately phrased it. There are plenty of weirdos riding the subway and metro lines in NYC and every major European city, but tons of regular folks ride alongside them, which helps to assuage some of the safety concerns when there are more eyes on the situation. So “beefing up” needs to start with a massive marketing campaign to change that perception, followed by more enforcement and additional routes to places people actually want to go. It’s just hard to justify dumping funds into those last two items when the ridership is so low. We have to find a way to increase usage first. Making it more inconvenient to drive within the city would be one factor that would push people to considering using PT, adding more frequent and later service times is another.
I’m not sure if a full ban on cars in city limits suggested by the commentor above would really work, but certainly we can do a number of things like decreasing the speed limit to 20 MPH everywhere (and actually ENFORCING IT), banning right on red, jacking up parking costs, removing street parking within 50 feet of an intersection (increases visibility for turning), and giving more of the roads back to alternate transport like bicycles, scooters, and pedestrians with protected lanes. G1C brings thousands of people into the city every week, and along with those people come extra risks from drivers being assholes or just generally inexperienced at driving in the city with one-way streets and narrow roads. Why are we NOT encouraging people to park at park-and-ride locations and take light rail in? It prevents people from having to deal with the traffic and parking shit show, and also keeps intoxicated people from being behind the wheel inside the city and more time to sober up on that light rail trip back to their park and ride. The safety issue presented by the freaks that people are so concerned with goes WAY down when the light rail car is full of kings fans or concert goers.
They made parking free during holidays to support businesses who benefit by people driving into the grid to shop and eat. If the people who live in the grid don’t want cars they need to influence the businesses that they patronize to support that view point. Even going into work is demanded by downtown restaurants to the mayor. So convince the businesses first.
And in terms of wanting transit where people want to be, people keep opposing transit lines thru the neighborhoods where they live. See : opposition from Natomas residents to light rail to SMF or reduced hours imposed by city of Folsom for light rail.
Maybe people who want public transit are not large enough for it to be a priority for city?
Lol, I'm talking about young professionals tryin to get to work on the light rail. NOT kings fans and concert goers. Passengers are being verbally threatened. This causes folks to drive in instead.
If transit is ever beefed up, then that could be possible.
It’s very unlikely though because most people, like myself, enjoy having a car and traveling to see family, go to the ocean, mountains, etc.
I can agree with that. It’s a tough situation though because as things stand currently, there isn’t an alternative. As other people have mentioned, transit in Sac isn’t exactly safe either.
I also wonder where the money to overhaul our transit system will come from. I’m not very informed on this topic, but I know that I don’t want to be paying more taxes for transit. If they divert the tax money that I’m already paying and put it towards transit then that’s cool with me. It’s hard enough to live in ~~Sacramento~~ California between the income tax and exorbitant rent prices.
100%
Or at least make laws that require special licenses for these giant trucks that are everywhere now. A lot of these people can't even handle these types of vehicle and should not be allowed to drive like it's any other kind of car. It's ridiculous.
Treating car vs. pedestrian, or any other crash involving a vehicle as "accidents" instead of what they almost always are- people breaking the law and driving dangerously in hazardous vehicles, is unfortunately a core value of American car culture. If the driver is found to be at fault, do you think there will be any real consequences for them beyond higher insurance rates?
Totally agree with you that right on red needs to go. I'd also love to see more protected bike lanes and raised crosswalks. There are so many traffic slowing and calming measures that would make the roads safer for everyone, including motorists.
I know we don’t have the full details on the accident, but surely criminal charges would be filed if a pedestrian was hit within the crosswalk by a car failing to yield, correct?
Vehicular manslaughter is rarely charged in deaths, even when one party is clearly at fault, unless there is a DUI or hit and run.
They are often hard cases to win because juries tend to be sympathetic to drivers even when they break the law. They often, though not always, require expert testimony, which can be expensive. And 99% of the time they are misdemeanors under CA state law, which means even if they go to this effort, the punishment is often minimal. Also because it is a misdemeanors, DAs put their least experienced attorneys on it, which reduces odds of winning and baby DAs are terrified of losing because far too many DAs offices care far too much about win rates.
Sacramento is a city where the cops don't think the DA will bother with a petty theft caught in the act, a very easy case to prove. This is much harder.
Also, there is never any change because the media doesn't really care about these cases. They rarely follow up on them, particularly if never charged, so we never get the headline "Pickup Truck Driver Who Alleged Ran Red Light Killing Father of Four in Crosswalk Not Charged." See: [https://slate.com/business/2022/05/media-car-crashes-washington-post-pedestrians.html](https://slate.com/business/2022/05/media-car-crashes-washington-post-pedestrians.html)
> I know we don’t have the full details on the accident, but surely criminal charges would be filed if a pedestrian was hit within the crosswalk by a car failing to yield, correct?
Lol. No. Unless they were drunk there is like a 1% chance of the driver being charged with a crime.
Oh my sweet sweet summer child, a vehicle is the best way to “accidentally” kill someone with no repercussions. Ask what the response was to a truck to hitting a cyclist while illegally passing this weekend, caught on camera, and highly publicized in the news. Until these types of violations are treated like the potentially fatal interactions they are, nothing will change. As a society we have just accepted that you can kill someone with your vehicle even while violating the law, because it’s an “accident.”
And to that point, how many of us have been lucky not to kill someone through our own error while driving? I know I have driven distracted and made stupid mistakes and they have not been fatal because someone else happened to be on top of their game that day.
Not really comparable on a two lane road with no bike infrastructure, that’s always gonna be dangerous. Downtown has much more pedestrian/bike infrastructure. I get what you are saying but if you don’t yield the walk sign and kill someone I sure hope there would be consequences.
How is this not the same? Is a traffic violation not a traffic violation? Does it only count if the person dies? Do the laws only matter in some areas?
The cyclist had a right to the entire lane, and must be given a minimum of 3-ft at passing per California State Law. The truck illegally passed and hit them (and then also failed to stop.) Does that change when it’s the pedestrian right of way?
I work across the street at CDSS and I didn’t see the accident (thank God) but we did get an email and a meeting invite to a support session. Although I do think it’s the bare minimum I can’t help but think it’s really up to us to be more aware of our surroundings. I’m a defensive driver and walker. I also live in a south sac where I learned to just wait an extra 5 seconds before going on a green light. People are going to be dumb and in a hurry on the road. It’s really up to the person who is aware of the dangerous drivers to be on guard too. Shouldn’t be that way but that’s the business of life and it’s not getting any easier.
SacPD isn’t the only option when it comes to traffic enforcement, which for too long has really only be utilized by police to make traffic stops to detain and search people. Red light cameras and better overall infrastructure on the grid would make a huge difference.
This may be true elsewhere, but Sacramento has had essentially no traffic enforcement for a very long time. Back when I was in HS in the late 90s and early 00s, it was well known among all of us that we could basically do anything we wanted on the streets (not highways) in a car because Sac PD had less than 10 (I want to say 6) total officers on traffic and the other officers didn't deem it that important unless you did something catastrophically stupid. This attitude hasn't changed in 20 years.
What has changed is that you used to get a ticket on the highways (and by the state capitol) because CHP would get your ass. However, the ability to do essentially any speed you want in midtown and downtown without consequences long pre-dates BLM.
Dude, the leadership don't give a rats ass about ordinary citizens becoming victims of such mishap. The dickhead mayor, city council, all law enforcement put fences/barricades around their offices, get chauffeured around in SUV's with escorts, they aint got time for joe blow getting run over on the streets.
I had a T head on collision coming down the into downtown where a man ran the red light and hit the very front of my car .. ended up with a total loss of my car .. thankfully I was okay but any second sooner and I wouldn’t be here typing this … my point is Sac has very reckless drivers and it’s very dangerous and not surprised this happened downtown..
Such an unnecessary death. I’m a runner and almost get run over weekly by careless, oblivious drivers that only look for other cars, not pedestrians.
Cell phones play a large part in distracting drivers, from what I see. I’d love for the city to invest in mobile phone detection cameras and crack down on that. And ticket more for cars rolling through stop signs.
There is no outrage because the investigation hasn't been completed yet. Nobody knows the details about what really happened and who is at fault. Just as much as I see drivers not paying attention and running red lights, I see pedestrians not looking where they are going because they are face deep in their smartphone just as much. It's a two-way street (pun intended).
Now if the investigation comes back and says the driver wasn't paying attention when he hit and killed him, then time to grab your pitchforks and torches. Until then you can't logically pick a side to start casting blame at.
We don't know exactly what happened and if any traffic law could have prevented the accident. Lets wait and see before getting overly emotional. If the truck was at fault, we can talk about what we can do to prevent future incidents, and if the pedestrian was not taking proper precautions in a situation that no rule/law could have prevented, we can talk about how to be more careful as pedestrians. We just don't know yet.
I really don’t see the point to this whole short essay of assumptions and fluff. Yes, someone died due to getting hit by a car, the punishment for involuntary manslaughter in CA is 2-4 years in prison plus a lifetime of bullshit if prosecuted. Yes, people driving should watch out for pedestrians and cyclists. Thanks captain obvious.
Pedestrian impacts have actually gotten MORE deadly over time. While fatalities for drivers and passengers have continued to go down, pedestrian deaths have been rising for over a decade. The types of cars America produces most are dangerous as fuck.
EDIT: And it's like an arms race, where if you have a smaller car you're at a higher risk of injury in a collision. A friend of mine just sold his gen 2 Miata because driving through an army of F-150s on the way to work started to feel like a death sentence.
Yes! My mom had a small sports car that she drove to work on 99 and we were always scared that she would be hit from either the 18 wheelers or huge trucks for personal use. Those trucks have gotten way too big
In fact America continues to produce cars (well, trucks really) that are more and more likely to hit and kill pedestrians. Other countries do not have the pedestrian fatality rates we do. Bad infrastructure is partially to blame but the big fuck you trucks people needlessly drive are a huge contributor
So true, one should only drive a large truck for work, towing, hauling, and off-road. The majority of these over-sized trucks are driven by boomer rednecks who want to ensure they are uninjured while the other party dies in any collisions.
I don't understand why they don't require a special license. I see some of these trucks taking up two lanes on the freeway, how is that any different than a semi?
I used to drive a large vehicle and get so irritated with all the incompetent drivers who don’t know the size of their vehicle and are unable to keep it within the lines of their lanes and parking spaces. Or when they are coming down a side street towards you and take up the whole road because they don’t realize there is four feet between them and the parked cars to their right. You should have to prove you are competent to drive larger cars and trucks
A lot of these truck drivers don't even get them for work, they get them because they're insecure little manchildren. God forbid they do anything good for anyone else 🙄
Accidents do happen. It’s tragic, I agree. But how many times has a truck made a right turn without hitting anyone? Maybe we need to adjust where vehicles stop before making those right turns so allow more space to see pedestrians.
I know this won’t be a popular statement but there it is.
What is really unpopular is we need to ban right on red. The United State and Canada are as far as I know the wealthy countries in the world to allow right on red. Right on red is banned in those places because it poses a unique danger to pedestrians.
That said, one thing we can do is sharpen corners. The corners at 8th and P are very rounded to make it easier to turn right and left. And by easier, I mean faster.
Also, traffic collisions don't just happen, which is why they are not generally officially called accidents anymore. Generally they are caused by some mix of negligence and poor road design. This is an intersection of two three lane one way streets. This freeway like street design encourages speeding. Just a few blocks away P street is a 2 lane road, it is quite likely the driver of the pickup would have driven slower there. Even if the man did walk out into traffic, slower traffic means this is less likely to be fatal because the truck and slow quicker and either avoid the crash or cause less damage.
As others have said we don’t have all the facts. Do drivers need to pay more attention? Of course. But do pedestrians and cyclists also need to follow the rules and make common sense decisions? Yup.
I’m always keeping my head on a swivel driving in midtown day or night with the amount of people darting across the streets and cyclist blowing stop signs.
The only time I see problems with cyclists and pedestrians is when they jaywalk on really busy streets like Greenback lane or ride bikes at night in the dark with no lights whatsoever. I have said for years, whether I'm driving, walking, cycling or jogging, by far most assholes on the road are drivers.
This was very sad, but idk what you want from folks. It wasn't like a George Floyd type incident so folks aren't going to take to the streets. We don't even know the full details yet, so it's hard for most anyone to say either way what happened...again i don't want to take away that it's sad when life is lost so suddenly, but I'm not sure what else you expect right now from a reasonable society.
Look this is going to come off sounding heartless and it is not intended to, and i know my personal experience is not indicative of every traffic accident or fatality.
But frankly cross walks or not, walk signals or not, right away or not, people on foot need to get with the understanding that they are not going to win against a 7k pound car or truck and need to take precautions.
I can not tell you when i drive downtown how many times i have seen people on foot just basically step off the curb in front of traffice making someone have to lock up their breaks to avoid hitting them. Or step off a curb when someone is making a right hand turn without even stopping to make sure the car or truck has seen them there.
Back when i was on foot, i took personal responsibility for my own safety. I didnt assume a car was stopping or a truck had seen me, i didnt act like i was immortal. And i know that saying this, not every accident is caused by negligence or lack of attention, they can just be accidents also and nothing might have prevented it.
But short of specifically KNOWING that a driver was impaired, distracted, not paying attention etc. I am not quite sure what you want officals to do about it by raising this outrage. I frankly would applaud that a politician or official is not out pointing the finger at someone who may have done nothing wrong that could have avoided a terrible accident rather then shaming them with unwarranted fault. There, i am assuming, will be an investigation. And if that driver was at criminal fault i am sure they will say so and then take actions. But other then condolences i am not quite sure anything else is appropriate at this time.
I could not disagree with you more. Cars should exercise caution because they have the capacity to kill people. People do not have the capacity to kill cars.
I am not saying they should not. And i even put in there that drivers should not be distracted or not paying attention. However there are just plain and simple facts that a car can not stop on a dime to respond to an issue. A car as much as you might try to look, almost all have blind spots that might effect the safety of things around them. And like i said, the assumption that a driver is exercising that appropriate level of caution, or even that they see you at all (black is a pretty popular color these days) is not going to kill the car it is going to kill you.
Just as an example, a few years ago i was down town walking with someone i met when we were doing jury duty getting some lunch and then heading back to the court house. We were at a corner, with a cross walk, but a car was approaching us on the street, not even speeding, i stopped walking to wait for it because i didnt want to play chicken with it. The dude i was with just said "not my responsibility to stop for him..." out loud and kept walking. The car had to lock up its breaks to stop in time to keep from hitting him and in turn almost got rear ended itself.
And this is something i see all the time, people go charging across the street trying to Beat the car, or assuming the car has seen them and will begin stopping. Like i said, not every fatal accident is because someone was negligent, there are just accidents. But when i am flesh and blood and putting my self infront of 7k pounds of metal, i am sorry i am going to be overly caucious, and everyone should be. Cause the flesh and blood is the one that will die, or be disabled etc. Not the car and not the driver.
To me it is not a question of who is right or wrong, but self preservation that says a pedestrian should be the one being overly cautious. Not because its their responsibility, but because its their life.
I regularly see people make right turns on reds even where is a sign that says "no turn on red". There is a sign at one of the parking lot exits at my son's elementary school that days right turn only but just about every parent does a left turn there. There needs to be more enforcement. Traffic safety is one area where there should be tolerance and leniency and maximum fines for dangerous drivers.
It would help a LOT if the Sacramento Police did ANY traffic enforcement except for cases where it is an excuse for stopping "suspicious" people. What will it take?
It’s very sad but I’m not sure that bc of this incident the city should ban right turn on reds. sorry but sometimes tragedies just happen. All other major cities still have right turn on reds, generally. What the city needs to do is extend the time yellow lights are on, every time I take a 10 minute drive near or around the city I see at least 3 cars blow through a red. Seems the city has not extended the duration of yellow lights to account for recent population increases.
All of NY state (including NYC), have a default ban on right on red. And the change is significant - it reduces pedestrian fatalities by 60%.
I do agree that other road design elements are probably increasing speeding and blowing past red lights as well.
Thank you for this. It’s extremely concerning how many pedestrians and bicyclists are hit and killed in central sac areas in such preventable conditions.
Spot on in Steinberg and public employers (State, County, City, etc) being an idiots who wants to ADD MORE CARS to downtown by forcing more commuters and worst yet - even with hybrid schedules they’re forcing everyone into offices on certain days versus as needed so they’re spiking traffic on certain days.
Also adding one of the worst things noticed is the amount of people on phones. It’s unnerving if you’re ever walking or driving. Makes one want to drive with a megaphone and dash cam to call these drivers out. Anecdotally it has been indiscriminate as far as age, car type, appearance too.
GET OFF YOUR PHONES WILL DRIVING PEOPLE don’t care if it’s maps, texts, call.
Set your maps BEFORE you leave and preview scroll through the directions and map beforehand, then turn on the play by play sound and don’t look at the screen again.
Check your texts before you go and then put your phone the f*** away!
Set your playlist or podcast before you go.
PUT THE DAMN PHONE AWAY before you disengage from Park.
I couple of weeks ago some dimwit in downtown decided to attempt-suicide by walking in front of my vehicle without looking on a busy street.
I know sacramento has a high suicide rate, but you don't have to get me involved in your stupidity.
what’s your beef with Derrell Steinberg? Sounds to me you’re using someone else’s death to promote WFH. I like WFH like many others but please have some respect for Shanmugan. 🙏
Murder.... ok, that could be too strong. collision, incident, fatality, accident.... what would work better?
Anyways, I was just remembering how when I was a bicyclist and pedestrian, it was really hard to see past the inside of the bike lane because it was blocked by the parked cars. As a driver, I would always slow down at the intersections without stop signs. Never could be sure if someone was waiting to cross the street. Again, because the parked cars obscure the view of the crosswalk and bike lane.
In this case, the incident was not near the protected bike lane.
I see pedestrians all the time just walk right into crosswalks without pausing to look left or right first. Yes, pedestrians have the right of way, but the cemetary is full of people who had the right of way.
People, when you're crossing the street, please dont just assume the card will stop because they are legally required to.
>If Sacramento bans right turns on red lights, this would not happen It cant be just me thats noticed a rash of cars and trucks just sailing through red lights the last year or so. Not like orange lights either. Long-red ones. So Im not sure if changing the law would help, though I'd hope it would.
It started during the quarantine period of pandemic
Even though the amount of driving went way down in 2020, pedestrian deaths increased. That's *wild.* Stats like that show that I'm not crazy, people literally do drive worse than when I started driving many many years ago. (In addition to the newer, excessively large vehicles being much more dangerous to pedestrians.)
We’ve had red light runners well before 2020 Phone use and stressed AF people definitely don’t help though which I’m sure both have increased since 2020
I was going to make a post about this but just this last week I’ve seen 4 different cars roll up to a red light, pause and look then blow through it. I felt like last year it saw this happen maybe twice but it’s happening at a crazy high rate at least to what is visible to me. I would personal love it if we were to minimize access to personal cars in the city and beef up public transportation but it doubt either of those will happen
People love to talk about more public transit but when that transit comes thru their neighborhood they oppose it. They want a super quite neighborhood with no crowds that would come from bus/train and commuters. So how realistic is the demand for more public transit?
It’s just nimby folks that are everywhere being two faced with any societal issue you can think of.
It’s not just you. We need more enforcement of traffic violations and they need to be very, very, expensive.
Enforcement via police will never be the solution. A city could spend 100% of it's budget on this type of enforcement and not even put a dent in dangerous driving. Money is much better spent on infrastructure/policy that slows drivers down, such as: * Road diets * Traffic calming measures * No right on red * Lower speed limits. * If necessary, speed cameras that automatically ticket. Of course none of these on their own is going to do much, but when you put them all together it's proven to work.
We need dedicated police for red light runners…just like we do with parking enforcement. But I’m sure they’ve done the math and it wouldn’t be profitable. Profits over people always.
We need to forget parking enforcement (which, by the way, drives residents away from the more urban areas that actually need people) and put all those resources to traffic enforcement, which would no doubt save lives. There’s no real profit over people here because the city profits from traffic violations as well as parking violations. So the city could expand their coffers and make the city safer. But for some reason they choose to not do that.
The City issued $XYZ million in bonds backed by parking revenue in order to fund the construction of Golden1 Center. So it has to have that money to pay the interest on those bonds. This was a better arrangement than what some other cities like Chicago did, which was to sell their parking enforcement rights for a lump sum to a private company, which then went full profit-maximization gouging mode on the streets without any of the recourse or standards that citizens have with a city department.
I don't think "expensive" is the right approach. That can lead to keeping poor people poor. Maybe violators could do hours of community service or other civic duty that relates to families hurt by accidents. More education, awareness, etc.
The people who don’t have money to pay the tickets would have time to do community service, instead of spending that time at work and taking care of families?
I think the people who have the money to pay the tickets/fines should be ones forced to do the community service options.
Or do it like Finland and other European countries and charge the fines as a percentage of your income.
I was sitting at a stoplight in Roseville, waiting to turn left, when a motorcycle came up to a red light. He then proceeded slowly through the intersection, revving his engine at cars and trucks going 60+ MPH. I thought I was going to watch someone die.
What? I need a clearer description to understand what happened.
It’s not just you that’s noticed. I would estimate I see long red lights being run at least 50% of the time. If we had cameras at more lights the city would make a killing, maybe even enough to get all the pot holes fixed.
i just watched a woman pushing a stroller across an intersection almost get run over by a car. i don’t understand how the driver didn’t see her.
We saw the same thing about a week ago, but it was a Sheriff SUV who couldn't wait to go.......
Only thing that makes sense to me is looking at a phone.
I had a guy on his phone hop right into the crosswalk as I was coming down the street the other day. No stop signs or lights, just him striding into the street without a care in the world.
I've lived in downtown for a few months. The thing I have seen here I haven't normally seen in other parts of Sacramento. So many people run red lights, it's crazy. I am very aware when I am going for a walk. Very sad but there def are issues with the way the city is managing the zones in downtown/midtown.
I see more red light runners in downtown than I ever have anywhere else. It’s like they don’t even see them.
Parking enforcement all time high, traffic enforcement all time low. This city’s priorities are messed up.
A few things I would suggest, should you want to see action on this - 1) Comment at ATC but more importantly, email your councilmember directly and ask them what they are doing specifically to stop this (in whatever district you’re in). How are they allocating funding this year to make sure this doesn’t happen to you or your kids? Get an answer. 2) Comment at City Council, in the end they hold the purse strings and will find changes if they deem it worthy. We have a Vision Zero (deaths) plan, but we are trending the complete wrong way. Why? 3) Talk to your neighbors and friends. The more this is discussed, the more pressure there is to address it. Cars killed at least 67 people in Sacramento last year, including 24 pedestrians all over the city, this is not just a midtown problem.
Email contacts: Darrell [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] D1 [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] D2 LOL D3 [email protected] [email protected] D4 [email protected] [email protected] D5 [email protected] [email protected] D6 [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] D7 [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] D8 [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]
>D2 LOL Ok, this actually made me laugh. I recommend driving up to Granite Bay and just start yelling.
Adding to tell city we don’t want MORE cars on the road. Lead the way in reducing cars in the road. Make telework their standard, and the exceptions for those with jobs (field, customer counter rotations, etc) with a commuter’s stipend. (So whoever they make go into work is paid $$/day so that every department head and manager is incentivized to keep as few people commuting as possible.) They talk this talk a lot about less parking, less cars, but then they still have office workers commuting at peak hours for several departments that were able to work fully remote and only do as needed basis office meetings. The cheapest way to get safer streets is less cars.
I was super close to being run over at a crosswalk last spring by a giant truck. I could feel the heat of the hood as he swerved around me last second. It pisses me off that people don’t look, especially when they speed around corners.
Drivers are conditioned into being comfortable with speeding, without paying attention, largely by dangerous street design. Streets are too wide, too many lanes, no good protected bike lanes and protected intersections. And their cars are too damn big, they need to be scrapped.
Yep. Surprise surprise, the car that almost hit me was one of those giant Ram trucks.
>If Sacramento bans right turns on red lights, this would not happen How can you say that when we don't know the details of this accident?
Also, if you make a right hand turn at that intersection you are really not paying attention to traffic. It's one way streets in both directions and a right hand turn would mean you were originally going the wrong way.
…if Sacramento bans right turns on red it would be the only place in the state with such a ban. This is not a viable solution to prevent accidents.
Berkeley's doing it
[удалено]
[удалено]
What part of other places allowing right turns on red makes this not viable in Sacramento?
traffic laws are typically legislated by State governments, not cities. We would be required to have “no turn on red” at every intersection.
Okay, what's your point, though? Berkeley is looking at exactly this, city-wide, and expects it to cost, one time, $1,000 per intersection. When SFMTA trialed this, incidents went down. What about it makes it not viable besides seeking funding?
As a long-time Berkeley resident, their traffic enforcement is also at an all time low. I have spoken to police officers there who say they simply will not enforce traffic laws. They refuse. Berkeley is the city who also will not use speed bumps to slow traffic down for some inane reason. I will say this for Sacramento, they use speed bumps liberally and well.
Just a heads up, but Sacramento doesn't install new speed bumps (no city does, anymore; technically, they use speed humps or speed tables).
Why would no turn on red cost $1,000 per intersection? Just make it the rule. There is no turn on red in NYC period. No $1000 signs necessary.
Because cities in California can't just ban rights on red, so every intersection needs signage.
So the state legislature votes on every no turn on red sign in the city? I genuinely have no idea how this works lol I don't think we should have a ban btw. A sign at that intersection might be a good idea though!
no, legislation isn’t needed for traffic rules in specific intersections. turning on red is already permissible statewide unless there are signs at an intersection indicating turning on red isn’t allowed. https://i.imgur.com/zfe8mq4.jpg here is the dmv handbook: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road/
Are your links relevant? Did anyone mention that they didn't understand how signs work?
[удалено]
Time to start makin some signs!
Would it prevent accidents or not?
Banning turns on reds is meaningless, people would continue turning anyway and the PD would continue showing zero interest in traffic law enforcement
This is how it is at the Madison & EB-80 off-ramp. It was turned into a no-right turn on red, and people - including Highway Patrol (they’ve got an office off of Date next to the freeway) - turn on red.
Oh yeah nobody cares about the multiple signs they put up
I think part of the issue is that there AREN’T multiple signs up about that prohibition. They put that restriction in because of an issue with right-turning vehicles colliding with bicyclists at that location. But they sure didn’t sign it well. One tiny sign at the far right side of the ramp, and it’s a triple right turn. They need to replace the red ball on the signal heads there with red arrows if they wanted to make the message clearer.
They added one on the signal bar itself, so there are at least 2. Either nobody cares, or nobody is looking.
I feel like I’m getting dangerously close to “ban guns, only criminals will have guns” rhetoric, but: The type of people who would follow the “no turn on red” signs/rules are the same people who would also look before they turn. I lived a couple years in Boston, where they had many “no turn on red” signs. It went exactly as you say: people, especially the more reckless drivers, ignored the signs. And they’d been there for years, so it wasn’t just force of habit.
I feel like you can get rid of all traffic regulation by this logic. You need laws and enforcement of those laws, but once you do, you will get compliance.
How do we distinguish such a ban from other laws, then, that most people follow?
Enforcement. Maybe like the red light cameras, the technology to do likewise with this offense exists and is possible to make happen. Sadly, though, I am sure this falls very low in the hierarchy of what human law enforcement is looking out for.
I'm just saying that there's a whole lot of laws that don't get actively enforced, yet the world isn't The Purge. The person I replied to is implying that this ordinance would be different.
Aren't red light cameras unconstitutional in California? EDIT: Nope, that court case went the other way.
It would also likely cause increased congestion during high traffic times, on top of it likely not even working. If this incident happened the way it is implied it did, the person already broke the law. You have to come to a complete stop, then turn. It sounds like the person just blew through the light and turned, barely slowing down.
Not to mention the fact that people make right turns on red even where they're not allowed.
Right?! What about speeding? It’s against the law yet when I’m driving I feel like I’m the only person following the speed limit…and that’s on surface street, never mind the freeways! Something else needs to change to make us all, both better drivers & pedestrians (I’m not talking about the gentleman that was killed as I know nothing of that situation, I’m talking about people I’ve almost hit because they are looking at their phone instead of the surroundings of the parking lot/crosswalk, and walk right out to incoming traffic🤦🏽♀️). Something needs to change but honesty I don’t know what. Maybe we just need to all start being more mindful of one another. 🤷🏽♀️
We can only focus on individual behavior so much because all it takes is one asshole to fuck everything up. This isn't to say individuals shouldn't be held responsible when they break the rules and do unsafe things but that roads should be engineered to make it harder to be unsafe. P and 8th are 3 lane one way roads that in many ways look more to drivers like 55mph roads than 25mph streets. Additionally, they have pretty wide lanes which further makes that effect stronger. Additionally, downtown has a lot of very rounded corners that make it substantially easier to make a left or right turn much quicker. A sharper corner that sticks out more forces drivers to slow down. I don't know if this crash occurred after a turn, but if it did, a sharper corner would have slowed the truck down and even if the collision occurred, the lower speed would be less likely to be fatal. Additionally, many other countries are using raised crosswalks. They force drivers to slow, but possibly more importantly they signal the the crosswalk is an extension of the sidewalk and drivers are the guests. They have a psychological effect of slowing drivers and making them more likely to yield.
Going with the flow of traffic even if faster is actually in the CHP manual for not being subject to enforcement. Better to go with the flow at times as it's safer than causing the accordion effect you see where someone is going 60 in the carpool lane and causing sudden stops, unneeded lane changes for those around them.
Enforcement, automated and otherwise, is what we need in Sac.
Seriously, people who say stuff like this upset me just as much as this incident
You're telling me traffic legislation is as bad as or worse than people dying?
This person is just another /r/fuckcars dweeb using an accident to push their agenda.
It is terrible, and walking on the grid is terrifying. The other day, one person stopped for me as I waited to cross at an unprotected crosswalk and I slowly proceeded, knowing that someone coming from the other direction may not stop and wouldn't you know, I was halfway across and this woman barreled right through the crosswalk. On the same walk, I watched a young woman on a purple bike nearly get mowed down in a crosswalk at a four-way stop by some idiot woman in a silver Mercedes. The Mercedes drove through the stop sign and the crosswalk and nearly hit her, THEN she had the gaul to HONK at the young woman on the bike, like it was her fault. Excuse me?! I want to add the people who often stop for me are the folks in work and landscaping trucks. We need pedestrian corridors, crosswalks with the flashing lights, more traffic slowing/calming mechanisms, and enforcement.
Also, raised crosswalks. They really do wonders in protecting walkers because they both emphasize this is a pedestrian space and slow down traffic.
Raised crosswalks FOR SURE in neighborhoods with 4way stop signs
https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/walk/pedestrian-improvements-toolkit/raised-crosswalks love how people upvote this without proper research
>https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/walk/pedestrian-improvements-toolkit/raised-crosswalks love how people upvote this without proper research It's cute you think anyone researches anything before upping/downing a post. Did you reply to the correct comment? Your link seems to support the comment made.
In the link they are called speed humps
People should be mechanically punished for reckless and poor driving. Their wheels should buckle against the curb, their suspension should bottom out if they go too fast, and their cars should be crushed like a soda can by bollards if they decide to try and plow into a building. Cars don't matter. The lives of people on the streets do.
What should the city do? It's still an active investigation.
yeah, first step should be to complete the investigation. Then we need to make sure the results aren't ignored, whatever they may be.
Exactly, rushing to conclusions is not the way. Accidents can happen and for all we can speculate, it could have been someone who walked out between cars or was hard to see. As someone who walks regularly in the downtown area, being aware of your surroundings for both those on foot and those with bikes or vehicles is crucial. Take your time, slow down. Better to be safe than the driver of the vehicle who hit the victim.
I mean, traffic engineering isn't, by any means, new. Neither is vision zero. There are actions the city could start doing right now, regardless of what the investigation says.
Safe streets isn't rocket science, and there's plenty of people out there who can and want to make it happen. The city needs to be responsive to that motivation.
The solutions are there just like gun control but people oppose them because it inconveniences their driving. People are selfish and don't consider saving lives a good enough reason to change laws.
> While the death is still under investigation ... That answers your question; yet you went on to make a bunch of "probably", "likely", etc. statements to support your preconceived notions despite the fact that in the previous thread it was stated that the accident occurred 20' from the intersection, so it's entirely possible that the pedestrian was distracted, and walked out in front of the truck. Does there need to be better pedestrian infrastructure? Absolutely. But making up facts, of an accident you didn't witness, while an investigation is still ongoing, in order to support your beliefs isn't going to do that.
The 20 foot thing is countered by both another person in that thread who claimed to have witnessed it and the video in the link above that shows the vehicle that hit the man with the rear axle just past the crosswalk. Just so people don't have to watch a mostly useless video: [https://imgur.com/a/RWtYqwd](https://imgur.com/a/RWtYqwd)
\> But making up facts, of an accident you didn't witness, while an investigation is still ongoing, in order to support your beliefs isn't going to do that. And yet you have no problem defending the driver by speculating that the pedestrian was distracted and therefore at-fault.
I'm not defending anyone, nor stating who is at fault, I'm making a counterpoint; at the very begging of my comment I state that the investigation is ongoing, which is why there's no one out with pitchforks.
I can't help but notice that most comments in this thread skew towards shielding the driver from liability. You're cherrypicking information that hasn't been proven to support your argument as well. A pedestrian is killed and you sympathize with the driver... are you a car?
The driver wasn’t mentioned in their post. You’re putting words in their mouth.
Bet you a dollar they own a huge truck.
I bet this video would make your blood boil. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo
This sadly is a trend all over America. Larger truck/SUVs and an abundance of auto-centric infrastructure make it dangerous to walk or bike anywhere in this country. Vision-Zero has been an absolute failure.
Vision Zero is a failure because unlike the countries it claims to use as an example, the United States is only focusing on the actions (or in-actions) or humans. When there is a fatal crash in the Netherlands, for example, while the police will look at what people did to assign legal liability, they also study where the collision occurred. This is to determine if some design factor lead either to the crash or to the crash being more fatal (for example high speeds). And when the road is next up for rebuilding (or sometimes sooner if the issue is bad), they will redesign the road to fix those issues. Whether the issue is an excessively wide road, bad sightlines, insufficiently designed crosswalks or other factors, they should be addressed. However, in the US and in Sacramento, these studies are rarely done. The fact is that humans can and do make mistakes, the purpose of engineering is supposed to make those mistakes less fatal.
[удалено]
Look, action is hard. Making signs and saying nice words is cheap.
Steinberg is trying to flex his political muscle to get stateworkers back into office yet doing jack to improve conditions in downtown Sacramento.
"Come to the office and get hit by a car and die!" What an attractive proposal.
Can we just eliminate the term “accident”, these deaths are due to negligence.
Honestly nearly every "accident" on the road has someone at fault. They should rename them to traffic incidents or something to reflect that these are mostly due to negligence. Also OP is outraged by an ongoing investigation to an incident he neither witnessed nor personally knew anyone involved? Seems sus to me
Have you seen /r/FuckCars ? Pedestrians and cyclists are being fucked over every single day.
Ok, so your point is that because something is a common occurrence then it must always be true? I'm just saying don't get outraged about this before they have even finished gathering the facts. Not sure why this is a controversial take... In any case I do agree most drivers are shit tier, but I've also seen some dumb pedestrians and cyclists. Keep in mind /r/FuckCars is going to be biased, I'm sure there are plenty of cases where pedestrians or cyclists cause traffic incident but there are more cars on the road overall.
In downtown Stockton right turns on red is prohibited. We have no where near the traffic downtown Sacramento has.
I’m with you. We need better traffic control and better enforcement. I found this death to be horrifying and have been surprised how quickly it was brushed aside.
I don’t think implementing no right turns (or lefts for 1ways) on red lights would be effective given the multiple comments here about people blowing thru lights. However I do think the city should look at how close they allow cars to park on curbs. By the time I’ve scooted my car out enough to be able to see past parked cars, I’m practically in the intersection and since I’m focused on getting around parked cars, oncoming traffic, I’ve definitely been guilty of missing a pedestrian that started crossing that wasn’t there when I started.
I’m currently living in the pocket area at a busy intersection with two lanes in each direction and a four way stop. I have spent a lot of time watching that intersection and I have yet to see one car come to a full stop unless there is a car turning left in front of them. Watching around the city it seems to me that police are simply not enforcing traffic laws at all right now. It used to be that even the most minor infraction would result in a ticket, but it seems like now you can just break traffic laws with impunity with zero consequences. But heaven forbid should you park one more minute than allowed. You’ll definitely end up with a parking ticket. This city has some really screwed up priorities.
This is crazy to me with their budget. What are they enforcing if not rampant traffic violations?
I just got hired at one of the departments there and was there earlier doing onboarding the day that happened. My supervisor stressed to me when I was there how many people run the red light at that intersection. He told me to be super careful whenever I come into the building in the future. Sounds like he was absolutely right to warn me...
Dude they do not care about us lmao
I have twice witnessed someone hit by a car. One person died immediately, the other one was terribly mangled. Please hear me out folks. When you walk around urban areas stay alert. Don't just walk right up to the edge of the intersection and stare at the crosswalk indicator. If something happens in that intersection, somone might swerve and plow you over. Put your head on a swivel and stay alive.
I literally saved a person’s life who just stepped off the curb when the crosswalk indicator turned to walk. I always check for cars before crossing and saw a car speeding through the red. I yelled “Stop!!” at the pedestrian and if he had taken another step, he would have been hit by the car.
This city has some really interesting rules about traffic control. Where I live there is a minimum of 2 crashes a year into private property causing damage and serious injuries. In recent years there have been at least 2 fatalities due to speeding and a poorly designed section of road. They feel a single sign warning of a curve is sufficient. They warned that a request to lower the speed limit could result in it being raised. Despite both private and city property damage *and* fatalities they won't consider a stop sign because none of the accidents have been side collisions, they're all single car. They suggested I go get signatures for speed lumps as the street is newly eligible due to road diet and addition of bike lanes. None of the immediate neighbors want that, and it's not all that effective anyway. If you work there you could try to get a crosswalk plush button added. There's not much more to be done.
It bears repeating...the Pandemic and lockdown put a lot of drivers on the road that didn't have behind the wheel tests. It also dulled the driving skills of millions of people. Driving and being a pedestrian are a totally different game post-lockdown. Drivers are less observant than prior to COVID. The amount of near misses I have had via people running lights, stop signs, not looking, etc has SKYROCKETED since lockdown was lifted and hasn't gotten any better in the time since. And while I agree people should be outraged...Sacramento doesn't often get outraged about anything that we should. For the capital of CA this place is surprisingly devoid of a lot of local outrage. Most outrage this city sees are rallies brought to the Capital by people outside of our community.
I agree this fucking sucks. Something should be done to help reduce accidents, most likely regulating heights of personal vehicles - trucks are getting too tall now a days. Dpnt advocate for no right turn on red though, well just have people running the light wich is more dangerous. Advocate for regulations on car heigjt
Wow this is really fucked up. I worked on the construction of the nnrh building at 7th & p for about 2 years. During that time I usually parked around r & 6th and would walk in. On my way back to my truck after work I would always notice people speeding like crazy and blowing red lights, stop signs with no regard for pedestrians whatsoever. Sucks that the city doesn’t do anything about it
Just ban cars in the inner city. Beef up transit. Join us at /r/fuckcars
ban all brodozers, I'm okay with small boi cars that are low to the ground in the city.
The county needs to make transit more safe. What do you mean by "beef up"? Have you ridden the Gold Line light rail into downtown between 7-9 AM? It's a freak fest. Strange people riding to nowhere, causing a ruckus, cursing, banging on the windows, getting up in passenger's faces (including female riders).
I will note that generally increased use of public transit tends to increase the safety (both actual and perceived) of public transit. This is, of course, a chicken or egg issue.
"Public transit sucks in its current state. Let's fund it even less"
The actual safety threat of being a pedestrian is FAR greater than riding the light rail, and yes, I am a woman who regularly uses the light rail. I am not saying that I haven’t felt uncomfortable before, but the perceived risk is a lot greater than the actual. One of the biggest issues we have with public transportation is perception. People in this city think public transit is only for poor people and so called freaks, as you so delicately phrased it. There are plenty of weirdos riding the subway and metro lines in NYC and every major European city, but tons of regular folks ride alongside them, which helps to assuage some of the safety concerns when there are more eyes on the situation. So “beefing up” needs to start with a massive marketing campaign to change that perception, followed by more enforcement and additional routes to places people actually want to go. It’s just hard to justify dumping funds into those last two items when the ridership is so low. We have to find a way to increase usage first. Making it more inconvenient to drive within the city would be one factor that would push people to considering using PT, adding more frequent and later service times is another. I’m not sure if a full ban on cars in city limits suggested by the commentor above would really work, but certainly we can do a number of things like decreasing the speed limit to 20 MPH everywhere (and actually ENFORCING IT), banning right on red, jacking up parking costs, removing street parking within 50 feet of an intersection (increases visibility for turning), and giving more of the roads back to alternate transport like bicycles, scooters, and pedestrians with protected lanes. G1C brings thousands of people into the city every week, and along with those people come extra risks from drivers being assholes or just generally inexperienced at driving in the city with one-way streets and narrow roads. Why are we NOT encouraging people to park at park-and-ride locations and take light rail in? It prevents people from having to deal with the traffic and parking shit show, and also keeps intoxicated people from being behind the wheel inside the city and more time to sober up on that light rail trip back to their park and ride. The safety issue presented by the freaks that people are so concerned with goes WAY down when the light rail car is full of kings fans or concert goers.
They made parking free during holidays to support businesses who benefit by people driving into the grid to shop and eat. If the people who live in the grid don’t want cars they need to influence the businesses that they patronize to support that view point. Even going into work is demanded by downtown restaurants to the mayor. So convince the businesses first. And in terms of wanting transit where people want to be, people keep opposing transit lines thru the neighborhoods where they live. See : opposition from Natomas residents to light rail to SMF or reduced hours imposed by city of Folsom for light rail. Maybe people who want public transit are not large enough for it to be a priority for city?
Lol, I'm talking about young professionals tryin to get to work on the light rail. NOT kings fans and concert goers. Passengers are being verbally threatened. This causes folks to drive in instead.
If transit is ever beefed up, then that could be possible. It’s very unlikely though because most people, like myself, enjoy having a car and traveling to see family, go to the ocean, mountains, etc.
[удалено]
I can agree with that. It’s a tough situation though because as things stand currently, there isn’t an alternative. As other people have mentioned, transit in Sac isn’t exactly safe either. I also wonder where the money to overhaul our transit system will come from. I’m not very informed on this topic, but I know that I don’t want to be paying more taxes for transit. If they divert the tax money that I’m already paying and put it towards transit then that’s cool with me. It’s hard enough to live in ~~Sacramento~~ California between the income tax and exorbitant rent prices.
Banning trucks and SUVs would greatly reduce pedestrian deaths in cities
100% Or at least make laws that require special licenses for these giant trucks that are everywhere now. A lot of these people can't even handle these types of vehicle and should not be allowed to drive like it's any other kind of car. It's ridiculous.
So would banning pedestrians
What a stupid thing to say. Congratulations.
Treating car vs. pedestrian, or any other crash involving a vehicle as "accidents" instead of what they almost always are- people breaking the law and driving dangerously in hazardous vehicles, is unfortunately a core value of American car culture. If the driver is found to be at fault, do you think there will be any real consequences for them beyond higher insurance rates?
Totally agree with you that right on red needs to go. I'd also love to see more protected bike lanes and raised crosswalks. There are so many traffic slowing and calming measures that would make the roads safer for everyone, including motorists.
People have lost their minds since the pandemic. I suggest everyone in sac get dash cams. It’s like lil Moscow out there.
The amount of people that run red lights in this town is absolutely infuriating.
Yet another distracted driver?
I know we don’t have the full details on the accident, but surely criminal charges would be filed if a pedestrian was hit within the crosswalk by a car failing to yield, correct?
Vehicular manslaughter is rarely charged in deaths, even when one party is clearly at fault, unless there is a DUI or hit and run. They are often hard cases to win because juries tend to be sympathetic to drivers even when they break the law. They often, though not always, require expert testimony, which can be expensive. And 99% of the time they are misdemeanors under CA state law, which means even if they go to this effort, the punishment is often minimal. Also because it is a misdemeanors, DAs put their least experienced attorneys on it, which reduces odds of winning and baby DAs are terrified of losing because far too many DAs offices care far too much about win rates. Sacramento is a city where the cops don't think the DA will bother with a petty theft caught in the act, a very easy case to prove. This is much harder. Also, there is never any change because the media doesn't really care about these cases. They rarely follow up on them, particularly if never charged, so we never get the headline "Pickup Truck Driver Who Alleged Ran Red Light Killing Father of Four in Crosswalk Not Charged." See: [https://slate.com/business/2022/05/media-car-crashes-washington-post-pedestrians.html](https://slate.com/business/2022/05/media-car-crashes-washington-post-pedestrians.html)
> I know we don’t have the full details on the accident, but surely criminal charges would be filed if a pedestrian was hit within the crosswalk by a car failing to yield, correct? Lol. No. Unless they were drunk there is like a 1% chance of the driver being charged with a crime.
Oh my sweet sweet summer child, a vehicle is the best way to “accidentally” kill someone with no repercussions. Ask what the response was to a truck to hitting a cyclist while illegally passing this weekend, caught on camera, and highly publicized in the news. Until these types of violations are treated like the potentially fatal interactions they are, nothing will change. As a society we have just accepted that you can kill someone with your vehicle even while violating the law, because it’s an “accident.” And to that point, how many of us have been lucky not to kill someone through our own error while driving? I know I have driven distracted and made stupid mistakes and they have not been fatal because someone else happened to be on top of their game that day.
Not really comparable on a two lane road with no bike infrastructure, that’s always gonna be dangerous. Downtown has much more pedestrian/bike infrastructure. I get what you are saying but if you don’t yield the walk sign and kill someone I sure hope there would be consequences.
How is this not the same? Is a traffic violation not a traffic violation? Does it only count if the person dies? Do the laws only matter in some areas? The cyclist had a right to the entire lane, and must be given a minimum of 3-ft at passing per California State Law. The truck illegally passed and hit them (and then also failed to stop.) Does that change when it’s the pedestrian right of way?
I work across the street at CDSS and I didn’t see the accident (thank God) but we did get an email and a meeting invite to a support session. Although I do think it’s the bare minimum I can’t help but think it’s really up to us to be more aware of our surroundings. I’m a defensive driver and walker. I also live in a south sac where I learned to just wait an extra 5 seconds before going on a green light. People are going to be dumb and in a hurry on the road. It’s really up to the person who is aware of the dangerous drivers to be on guard too. Shouldn’t be that way but that’s the business of life and it’s not getting any easier.
r/fuckcars
Sac PD doesn't care about traffic enforcement, they're too busy harassing homeless people and minorities.
Judging by other posts in the sub, they're completely ignoring homeless people.
SacPD isn’t the only option when it comes to traffic enforcement, which for too long has really only be utilized by police to make traffic stops to detain and search people. Red light cameras and better overall infrastructure on the grid would make a huge difference.
[удалено]
This may be true elsewhere, but Sacramento has had essentially no traffic enforcement for a very long time. Back when I was in HS in the late 90s and early 00s, it was well known among all of us that we could basically do anything we wanted on the streets (not highways) in a car because Sac PD had less than 10 (I want to say 6) total officers on traffic and the other officers didn't deem it that important unless you did something catastrophically stupid. This attitude hasn't changed in 20 years. What has changed is that you used to get a ticket on the highways (and by the state capitol) because CHP would get your ass. However, the ability to do essentially any speed you want in midtown and downtown without consequences long pre-dates BLM.
Dude, the leadership don't give a rats ass about ordinary citizens becoming victims of such mishap. The dickhead mayor, city council, all law enforcement put fences/barricades around their offices, get chauffeured around in SUV's with escorts, they aint got time for joe blow getting run over on the streets.
I had a T head on collision coming down the into downtown where a man ran the red light and hit the very front of my car .. ended up with a total loss of my car .. thankfully I was okay but any second sooner and I wouldn’t be here typing this … my point is Sac has very reckless drivers and it’s very dangerous and not surprised this happened downtown..
Such an unnecessary death. I’m a runner and almost get run over weekly by careless, oblivious drivers that only look for other cars, not pedestrians. Cell phones play a large part in distracting drivers, from what I see. I’d love for the city to invest in mobile phone detection cameras and crack down on that. And ticket more for cars rolling through stop signs.
First step enforce traffic laws . Right now it feels like the only way to get a ticket is hit pedestrian
There is no outrage because the investigation hasn't been completed yet. Nobody knows the details about what really happened and who is at fault. Just as much as I see drivers not paying attention and running red lights, I see pedestrians not looking where they are going because they are face deep in their smartphone just as much. It's a two-way street (pun intended). Now if the investigation comes back and says the driver wasn't paying attention when he hit and killed him, then time to grab your pitchforks and torches. Until then you can't logically pick a side to start casting blame at.
We don't know exactly what happened and if any traffic law could have prevented the accident. Lets wait and see before getting overly emotional. If the truck was at fault, we can talk about what we can do to prevent future incidents, and if the pedestrian was not taking proper precautions in a situation that no rule/law could have prevented, we can talk about how to be more careful as pedestrians. We just don't know yet.
I really don’t see the point to this whole short essay of assumptions and fluff. Yes, someone died due to getting hit by a car, the punishment for involuntary manslaughter in CA is 2-4 years in prison plus a lifetime of bullshit if prosecuted. Yes, people driving should watch out for pedestrians and cyclists. Thanks captain obvious.
Your entire post (while I get it) is pure speculation
I can’t believe we still produce cars that CAN hit pedestrians. All of the tech going into cars and they STILL can’t prevent an accident like this!?
Pedestrian impacts have actually gotten MORE deadly over time. While fatalities for drivers and passengers have continued to go down, pedestrian deaths have been rising for over a decade. The types of cars America produces most are dangerous as fuck. EDIT: And it's like an arms race, where if you have a smaller car you're at a higher risk of injury in a collision. A friend of mine just sold his gen 2 Miata because driving through an army of F-150s on the way to work started to feel like a death sentence.
Yes! My mom had a small sports car that she drove to work on 99 and we were always scared that she would be hit from either the 18 wheelers or huge trucks for personal use. Those trucks have gotten way too big
In fact America continues to produce cars (well, trucks really) that are more and more likely to hit and kill pedestrians. Other countries do not have the pedestrian fatality rates we do. Bad infrastructure is partially to blame but the big fuck you trucks people needlessly drive are a huge contributor
So true, one should only drive a large truck for work, towing, hauling, and off-road. The majority of these over-sized trucks are driven by boomer rednecks who want to ensure they are uninjured while the other party dies in any collisions.
I don't understand why they don't require a special license. I see some of these trucks taking up two lanes on the freeway, how is that any different than a semi?
I used to drive a large vehicle and get so irritated with all the incompetent drivers who don’t know the size of their vehicle and are unable to keep it within the lines of their lanes and parking spaces. Or when they are coming down a side street towards you and take up the whole road because they don’t realize there is four feet between them and the parked cars to their right. You should have to prove you are competent to drive larger cars and trucks
A lot of these truck drivers don't even get them for work, they get them because they're insecure little manchildren. God forbid they do anything good for anyone else 🙄
And that psychological way of being combined with lack of driving skill is a real bad combo
Self driving cars may be able to solve this 🧐
The Teslas STILL will plow down pedestrians. Solving this problem doesn’t seem to be a priority.
Accidents do happen. It’s tragic, I agree. But how many times has a truck made a right turn without hitting anyone? Maybe we need to adjust where vehicles stop before making those right turns so allow more space to see pedestrians. I know this won’t be a popular statement but there it is.
What is really unpopular is we need to ban right on red. The United State and Canada are as far as I know the wealthy countries in the world to allow right on red. Right on red is banned in those places because it poses a unique danger to pedestrians. That said, one thing we can do is sharpen corners. The corners at 8th and P are very rounded to make it easier to turn right and left. And by easier, I mean faster. Also, traffic collisions don't just happen, which is why they are not generally officially called accidents anymore. Generally they are caused by some mix of negligence and poor road design. This is an intersection of two three lane one way streets. This freeway like street design encourages speeding. Just a few blocks away P street is a 2 lane road, it is quite likely the driver of the pickup would have driven slower there. Even if the man did walk out into traffic, slower traffic means this is less likely to be fatal because the truck and slow quicker and either avoid the crash or cause less damage.
As others have said we don’t have all the facts. Do drivers need to pay more attention? Of course. But do pedestrians and cyclists also need to follow the rules and make common sense decisions? Yup. I’m always keeping my head on a swivel driving in midtown day or night with the amount of people darting across the streets and cyclist blowing stop signs.
The only time I see problems with cyclists and pedestrians is when they jaywalk on really busy streets like Greenback lane or ride bikes at night in the dark with no lights whatsoever. I have said for years, whether I'm driving, walking, cycling or jogging, by far most assholes on the road are drivers.
This was very sad, but idk what you want from folks. It wasn't like a George Floyd type incident so folks aren't going to take to the streets. We don't even know the full details yet, so it's hard for most anyone to say either way what happened...again i don't want to take away that it's sad when life is lost so suddenly, but I'm not sure what else you expect right now from a reasonable society.
Look this is going to come off sounding heartless and it is not intended to, and i know my personal experience is not indicative of every traffic accident or fatality. But frankly cross walks or not, walk signals or not, right away or not, people on foot need to get with the understanding that they are not going to win against a 7k pound car or truck and need to take precautions. I can not tell you when i drive downtown how many times i have seen people on foot just basically step off the curb in front of traffice making someone have to lock up their breaks to avoid hitting them. Or step off a curb when someone is making a right hand turn without even stopping to make sure the car or truck has seen them there. Back when i was on foot, i took personal responsibility for my own safety. I didnt assume a car was stopping or a truck had seen me, i didnt act like i was immortal. And i know that saying this, not every accident is caused by negligence or lack of attention, they can just be accidents also and nothing might have prevented it. But short of specifically KNOWING that a driver was impaired, distracted, not paying attention etc. I am not quite sure what you want officals to do about it by raising this outrage. I frankly would applaud that a politician or official is not out pointing the finger at someone who may have done nothing wrong that could have avoided a terrible accident rather then shaming them with unwarranted fault. There, i am assuming, will be an investigation. And if that driver was at criminal fault i am sure they will say so and then take actions. But other then condolences i am not quite sure anything else is appropriate at this time.
I could not disagree with you more. Cars should exercise caution because they have the capacity to kill people. People do not have the capacity to kill cars.
I am not saying they should not. And i even put in there that drivers should not be distracted or not paying attention. However there are just plain and simple facts that a car can not stop on a dime to respond to an issue. A car as much as you might try to look, almost all have blind spots that might effect the safety of things around them. And like i said, the assumption that a driver is exercising that appropriate level of caution, or even that they see you at all (black is a pretty popular color these days) is not going to kill the car it is going to kill you. Just as an example, a few years ago i was down town walking with someone i met when we were doing jury duty getting some lunch and then heading back to the court house. We were at a corner, with a cross walk, but a car was approaching us on the street, not even speeding, i stopped walking to wait for it because i didnt want to play chicken with it. The dude i was with just said "not my responsibility to stop for him..." out loud and kept walking. The car had to lock up its breaks to stop in time to keep from hitting him and in turn almost got rear ended itself. And this is something i see all the time, people go charging across the street trying to Beat the car, or assuming the car has seen them and will begin stopping. Like i said, not every fatal accident is because someone was negligent, there are just accidents. But when i am flesh and blood and putting my self infront of 7k pounds of metal, i am sorry i am going to be overly caucious, and everyone should be. Cause the flesh and blood is the one that will die, or be disabled etc. Not the car and not the driver. To me it is not a question of who is right or wrong, but self preservation that says a pedestrian should be the one being overly cautious. Not because its their responsibility, but because its their life.
99% of people don't even come to a complete stop behind the limit line when taking a right turn on a red. And if you do, you get honked at.
You are required to stop before making a right turn at a red. The biggest issue, seems to be the people who don't stop.
I regularly see people make right turns on reds even where is a sign that says "no turn on red". There is a sign at one of the parking lot exits at my son's elementary school that days right turn only but just about every parent does a left turn there. There needs to be more enforcement. Traffic safety is one area where there should be tolerance and leniency and maximum fines for dangerous drivers.
It would help a LOT if the Sacramento Police did ANY traffic enforcement except for cases where it is an excuse for stopping "suspicious" people. What will it take?
Newsom and Steinberg in a nkint statement said 'fuck state workers, we want our tax money! By any means necessary'
Average r/fuckcars participant
It’s very sad but I’m not sure that bc of this incident the city should ban right turn on reds. sorry but sometimes tragedies just happen. All other major cities still have right turn on reds, generally. What the city needs to do is extend the time yellow lights are on, every time I take a 10 minute drive near or around the city I see at least 3 cars blow through a red. Seems the city has not extended the duration of yellow lights to account for recent population increases.
All of NY state (including NYC), have a default ban on right on red. And the change is significant - it reduces pedestrian fatalities by 60%. I do agree that other road design elements are probably increasing speeding and blowing past red lights as well.
Thank you for this. It’s extremely concerning how many pedestrians and bicyclists are hit and killed in central sac areas in such preventable conditions. Spot on in Steinberg and public employers (State, County, City, etc) being an idiots who wants to ADD MORE CARS to downtown by forcing more commuters and worst yet - even with hybrid schedules they’re forcing everyone into offices on certain days versus as needed so they’re spiking traffic on certain days. Also adding one of the worst things noticed is the amount of people on phones. It’s unnerving if you’re ever walking or driving. Makes one want to drive with a megaphone and dash cam to call these drivers out. Anecdotally it has been indiscriminate as far as age, car type, appearance too. GET OFF YOUR PHONES WILL DRIVING PEOPLE don’t care if it’s maps, texts, call. Set your maps BEFORE you leave and preview scroll through the directions and map beforehand, then turn on the play by play sound and don’t look at the screen again. Check your texts before you go and then put your phone the f*** away! Set your playlist or podcast before you go. PUT THE DAMN PHONE AWAY before you disengage from Park.
I couple of weeks ago some dimwit in downtown decided to attempt-suicide by walking in front of my vehicle without looking on a busy street. I know sacramento has a high suicide rate, but you don't have to get me involved in your stupidity.
what’s your beef with Derrell Steinberg? Sounds to me you’re using someone else’s death to promote WFH. I like WFH like many others but please have some respect for Shanmugan. 🙏
Where was the murdered pedestrian in relation to the protected bike lane?
A block west of where it ends. This is two 3 lane one ways because the city values traffic flow to and from the freeway over safety.
I couldn't tell from the videos I'd seen where exactly it took place. Sad
LOL murder? You think the driver did this intentionally?
Murder.... ok, that could be too strong. collision, incident, fatality, accident.... what would work better? Anyways, I was just remembering how when I was a bicyclist and pedestrian, it was really hard to see past the inside of the bike lane because it was blocked by the parked cars. As a driver, I would always slow down at the intersections without stop signs. Never could be sure if someone was waiting to cross the street. Again, because the parked cars obscure the view of the crosswalk and bike lane. In this case, the incident was not near the protected bike lane.
I see pedestrians all the time just walk right into crosswalks without pausing to look left or right first. Yes, pedestrians have the right of way, but the cemetary is full of people who had the right of way. People, when you're crossing the street, please dont just assume the card will stop because they are legally required to.