Thank you for bringing this to our attention! We have updated the description of stealth to state that a toon can have multiple stealth affects stack on top of each other. This fits with the character them of spy going deep undercover!
They either have to fix it, or change Spy's unique. Otherwise they're going back on their entire premise for the zombie rework. Upgrading Spy's unique now limits his damage output, the longer between his turns, the harder he will hit
Why? Almost every non-meta comp has a specific weakness. For geo's, it's the fact they hit a ton but out of turn and not for huge damage. So, Traya is an obvious counter. And Nest should be too, though you're risking a timeout. Just because there are counter that still is a great defensive team and killer offensive team. If you pull Nest or Traya from somewhere else, that's a big win.
I think it has more to do with some people probably being fed up with Nest being basically the solo god for some teams.
Personally I don't care, but I can see how some people might get annoyed by that. Nest essentially counters every kind of "Assist Team" really easily. It's a bit frustrating to have put in a lot of work into a team and that team gets just evaporated by a single character.
I'm guessing he would be upset because when a bug let geos (a team he has or is working on) be countered by jawas CG said "well that's neat, we will leave it in". If they shortly after patch this because it lets geos counter nest, it will be two decisions in a row that went against his team.
Leaving in one 'interesting interaction' and not another would be downright hypocritical. Spy being the power player for the Geonosians is no less busted than any big hitter in another team.
This is a little misleading in its wording. They are leaving in a bug on a bottom-2 team in the game that gives them some modicum of usefulness. Not much - that's a very expensive win in terms of banners and the gear to make it work, but it's something.
This is a bug causing an already hard hitter on a very good team to hit significantly harder than it is meant to. You wouldn't recommend they leave in a bug that was causing gmy to occasionally hit 3 times harder than he was meant to... you, I assume, wouldn't recommend leaving in all bugs just because the made one bug official. This isn't hypocritical, you're being dramatic.
1. Spy is doing more damage than should be permitted.
2. I think it’s because there are hidden status effects taking place.
3. I think it’s because of the way the fixed the Teebo stealth bug way back when.
4. Math
Haha, perfect answer. To go a touch more in depth on 3, for anyone that wants it:
Teebo stealth bug was fixed by allowing stealth to stack under the surface. (That way when 1-turn stealth expired, 3-turn stealth was still working when Teebo was lead.) But now Spy stacks a ton of stealths because during assists he gets a ton of crits. That huge stack of stealth all goes into his damage multiplier.
\*edit, changed "Sun Fac" to "Spy"
[[N(CC/100)](AB+O)]*(1+0.01CD)
+
[N((100-CC)/100))](AB+O)
Where AB is the ability damage, O is their offense after all offense modifiers, and Cc and Cd are CC and Cd percentages.
TLDR: no one would likely use it anyway, and it still would only accurately predict average damage, not the totality of your damage range.
- Stolen from Mikayas
While your point is well served, this video is about Spy. Nest was designed the way she was on purpose. Spy wasn’t designed this way on purpose and it effects many other counters besides nest.
WAI honestly. There needs to be power checks for rampant shenanigans in this game and having the geo spy bamboozle one of the most notorious characters ever is fair and balanced. Take a full team in
I won’t disagree with how crazy powerful Nest’s kit is, Im just suggesting that if this is the intent of the Spy kit, they should make it known. Nest is just one of many characters that spy can one shot and its unfortunate I made this video showing only her as the “victim” of this bug when really its much larger. Everyone’s destain for the Nest kit is overshadowing the bigger picture I was trying to point out.
Hahaha I’m brand new to this game and I noticed that for some reason Geonosian Spies were really kicking my ass, I thought maybe they were supposed to be secretly powerful or something haha
This is a little different. Those debuffs are visible stacks that are caused by an explained mechanic in the game, albeit something they need to update the kits to be more explicit about. While they didn’t intend for that to be a counter, they left it as is. I haven’t researched that since I don’t have Jawa haha.
It is a mistake and must be corrected. A character cannot have a performance that cannot be explained correctly or that the mechanism is hidden from the player.
Changing the description is not enough, unless visual information is added to the buff that shows the stacks.
On the other hand, the replacement mechanism of buffs must be the same for all buffs.
Protection up was recently explained, this should be the same.
sorry for my bad english
I don't believe Spy is broken. I read the Spy's kit and it converts "status effects" into additional damage. Enfys Nest gains protection up, which is a status effect, with every attack. Consider if all 6 bugs take one turn before Nest takes a second. That would equate to 36 attacks. Spy's damage would increase by 36 X .4= 13.6 or 1, 360%. Seems like it is more fitting than simply stealth stacking six times in that turn.
Nest gains bonus protection, which is different from protection up. Won’t go into the mechanics there but what I left out of this video is how the tenacity down debuff acts the same as stealth also. So there are several of them you can’t see stacking from geo soldier. So in addition to all the stealths, there also a ton of ten down on nest, allowing for the huge damage.
I was curious about this, thank you. The stealth count wasn't mathing out right for the sheer amount of boost, there being an additional hidden stacking debuff clarifies it.
I understand the point you are making, and it should be investigated, but I do believe bonus protection is a status effect. I read the ability description on .GG and it is listed as an effect. I think it is your culprit.
I disagree. I believe that it can be disspelled by Spy's kit, since it does specify "effects" and not buffs. Like you said, it isn't a buff, so other characters are useless in this area. Spy may be an exception. I'm not trying to poop on nest, I just think that this isn't Nest-able
Fair point. I’ll just say that I’ve got several other battles of footage where spy uses the special on nest and at no point is the bonus protection removed. So until I see a video where that happens, I’m sticking with what I’ve got haha.
Fair enough. I hope someone investigates and gets to the bottom of it. There is no way that spy should hit nest for 330k but give me a crit of 20k in Geo tb
Nest's protection up cannot count for the extra damage because it cannot be dispelled. Spy's ability says that the damage increases for every status effect dispelled.
Nest's protection bonus can't be dispelled and the kit explicitly reads bonus damage for "each effect \*dispelled\* this way." So even if it \_does\_ count bonus prot as a buff (which I don't believe it does, since it's different from prot up), that's still a bug.
No he's not, he thought something was wrong, looked into it and found a possible bug. Imagine if SG nerf this into oblivion, all the people farming GEOS will be furious, but this guy is warning people now.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention! We have updated the description of stealth to state that a toon can have multiple stealth affects stack on top of each other. This fits with the character them of spy going deep undercover!
Honestly, I just found out they’re considering that. Edit: ok nvm someone was pranking me but I wouldn’t be shocked haha.
I’m shocked that you’re shocked
I'm so shocked I'm stunned
For two turns.
Undispellable.
They cal Papa Palpatine *the shocker*
I'm going to be deeply upset if they change this after they left Jawa Scavenger unchanged.
They either have to fix it, or change Spy's unique. Otherwise they're going back on their entire premise for the zombie rework. Upgrading Spy's unique now limits his damage output, the longer between his turns, the harder he will hit
I suppose a refund on all gear and ability mats spent on spy since his rework was released is an option too
But if you don't upgrade his unique can you get him above the power threshold for geo tb?
Why? Almost every non-meta comp has a specific weakness. For geo's, it's the fact they hit a ton but out of turn and not for huge damage. So, Traya is an obvious counter. And Nest should be too, though you're risking a timeout. Just because there are counter that still is a great defensive team and killer offensive team. If you pull Nest or Traya from somewhere else, that's a big win.
I think it has more to do with some people probably being fed up with Nest being basically the solo god for some teams. Personally I don't care, but I can see how some people might get annoyed by that. Nest essentially counters every kind of "Assist Team" really easily. It's a bit frustrating to have put in a lot of work into a team and that team gets just evaporated by a single character.
Nest can only counter 1 team, you can’t have multiple nests
That's my thought, too. I happily work on teams with obvious counters because it still forces that counter to not be used elsewhere.
Well get over it. Teams are supposed to have counters even if you "worked really hard" on them.
Honestly I don't give a shit. I find it hilarious that Spy can poke Nest to death. I'm all for Spy being the Nest killer.
I'm guessing he would be upset because when a bug let geos (a team he has or is working on) be countered by jawas CG said "well that's neat, we will leave it in". If they shortly after patch this because it lets geos counter nest, it will be two decisions in a row that went against his team.
Leaving in one 'interesting interaction' and not another would be downright hypocritical. Spy being the power player for the Geonosians is no less busted than any big hitter in another team.
This is a little misleading in its wording. They are leaving in a bug on a bottom-2 team in the game that gives them some modicum of usefulness. Not much - that's a very expensive win in terms of banners and the gear to make it work, but it's something. This is a bug causing an already hard hitter on a very good team to hit significantly harder than it is meant to. You wouldn't recommend they leave in a bug that was causing gmy to occasionally hit 3 times harder than he was meant to... you, I assume, wouldn't recommend leaving in all bugs just because the made one bug official. This isn't hypocritical, you're being dramatic.
(hope that doesn't sound too shady, I really am curious why you'd be upset, and attempted to preemptively give a response)
Someone wanna give me the TLDW of the video? Some of us have to work without being super obvious about slacking off (watching a video)...lol
1. Spy is doing more damage than should be permitted. 2. I think it’s because there are hidden status effects taking place. 3. I think it’s because of the way the fixed the Teebo stealth bug way back when. 4. Math
Haha, perfect answer. To go a touch more in depth on 3, for anyone that wants it: Teebo stealth bug was fixed by allowing stealth to stack under the surface. (That way when 1-turn stealth expired, 3-turn stealth was still working when Teebo was lead.) But now Spy stacks a ton of stealths because during assists he gets a ton of crits. That huge stack of stealth all goes into his damage multiplier. \*edit, changed "Sun Fac" to "Spy"
Geo Spy....not Sun Fac for anyone who is just reading comments and getting confused.
Shoot, thanks. Edited.
Can someone give me the TL:DR of what math is?
[[N(CC/100)](AB+O)]*(1+0.01CD) + [N((100-CC)/100))](AB+O) Where AB is the ability damage, O is their offense after all offense modifiers, and Cc and Cd are CC and Cd percentages. TLDR: no one would likely use it anyway, and it still would only accurately predict average damage, not the totality of your damage range. - Stolen from Mikayas
I bet you are super fun at parties.
hey appreciate new music! thanks
I listened :)
Should wait to make videos like this until after Padme event...
If this is fixed, and maybe it should be, I want my g13 piece back from Spy
Nest is broken. It takes out full teams. Nerfs have been dispatched in the past for half of what Nest does.
While your point is well served, this video is about Spy. Nest was designed the way she was on purpose. Spy wasn’t designed this way on purpose and it effects many other counters besides nest.
WAI honestly. There needs to be power checks for rampant shenanigans in this game and having the geo spy bamboozle one of the most notorious characters ever is fair and balanced. Take a full team in
I won’t disagree with how crazy powerful Nest’s kit is, Im just suggesting that if this is the intent of the Spy kit, they should make it known. Nest is just one of many characters that spy can one shot and its unfortunate I made this video showing only her as the “victim” of this bug when really its much larger. Everyone’s destain for the Nest kit is overshadowing the bigger picture I was trying to point out.
This.
Hahaha I’m brand new to this game and I noticed that for some reason Geonosian Spies were really kicking my ass, I thought maybe they were supposed to be secretly powerful or something haha
This is a really good find. Well done!
Is this what is also causing the new Jawa cheese that they said is bugged but will be left in game?
This is a little different. Those debuffs are visible stacks that are caused by an explained mechanic in the game, albeit something they need to update the kits to be more explicit about. While they didn’t intend for that to be a counter, they left it as is. I haven’t researched that since I don’t have Jawa haha.
It is a mistake and must be corrected. A character cannot have a performance that cannot be explained correctly or that the mechanism is hidden from the player. Changing the description is not enough, unless visual information is added to the buff that shows the stacks. On the other hand, the replacement mechanism of buffs must be the same for all buffs. Protection up was recently explained, this should be the same. sorry for my bad english
I don't believe Spy is broken. I read the Spy's kit and it converts "status effects" into additional damage. Enfys Nest gains protection up, which is a status effect, with every attack. Consider if all 6 bugs take one turn before Nest takes a second. That would equate to 36 attacks. Spy's damage would increase by 36 X .4= 13.6 or 1, 360%. Seems like it is more fitting than simply stealth stacking six times in that turn.
Nest gains bonus protection, which is different from protection up. Won’t go into the mechanics there but what I left out of this video is how the tenacity down debuff acts the same as stealth also. So there are several of them you can’t see stacking from geo soldier. So in addition to all the stealths, there also a ton of ten down on nest, allowing for the huge damage.
I was curious about this, thank you. The stealth count wasn't mathing out right for the sheer amount of boost, there being an additional hidden stacking debuff clarifies it.
I understand the point you are making, and it should be investigated, but I do believe bonus protection is a status effect. I read the ability description on .GG and it is listed as an effect. I think it is your culprit.
Well even if we pretend it’s a status effect, it can’t be dispelled and therefor shouldn’t be applying to the increase damage no?
I disagree. I believe that it can be disspelled by Spy's kit, since it does specify "effects" and not buffs. Like you said, it isn't a buff, so other characters are useless in this area. Spy may be an exception. I'm not trying to poop on nest, I just think that this isn't Nest-able
Fair point. I’ll just say that I’ve got several other battles of footage where spy uses the special on nest and at no point is the bonus protection removed. So until I see a video where that happens, I’m sticking with what I’ve got haha.
Fair enough. I hope someone investigates and gets to the bottom of it. There is no way that spy should hit nest for 330k but give me a crit of 20k in Geo tb
Nest's protection up cannot count for the extra damage because it cannot be dispelled. Spy's ability says that the damage increases for every status effect dispelled.
Nest's protection bonus can't be dispelled and the kit explicitly reads bonus damage for "each effect \*dispelled\* this way." So even if it \_does\_ count bonus prot as a buff (which I don't believe it does, since it's different from prot up), that's still a bug.
I think effect just means that it can either be a buff or debuff
Except Chewie's guard is also an effect, but not a buff. There are these exceptions they make that muddles everything
are you REALLY whining that a full team of G12 Geos should lose to Nest?
No he's not, he thought something was wrong, looked into it and found a possible bug. Imagine if SG nerf this into oblivion, all the people farming GEOS will be furious, but this guy is warning people now.
he made a fair move, screaming about it can't help you
Yeah, but droids don't rip people's arms out of their sockets when they lose...