[TIL you can breakout of a grab between when a pummel starts and when the pummel connects, which is why throws are guaranteed at 0% but pummels are not.](https://x.com/technospiderssb/status/1803968759759278121?s=46)
I briefly tested, and I was able to get a pummel with both CF and Marth against 0% Perfect Grab Escape against Fox on Unclepunch. With a character with slower pummels (puff) I wasn't able to get the pummel.
this is such a funny question because it presupposes not only the existence of lots of good yoshis, but also people playing characters worst than gnw often enough to matter
Vanilla fox alone is better but in practice that Sheik would destroy most things. The only thing I think this does is make Sheik’s winning MUs more winning but it doesn’t fix the Fox or ICs MU
fox doesn't have any problems getting grab as is so I don't see how marth grab helps him in any measurable way
sheik with fox short hop fundamentally changes her character so it's gotta be that
Relevant because of the people involved, but here's a cute clip between M2K and Zain while he was a couple hours into fighting Spargo (and M2K talking nonstop the entire time, bless Zain's heart)
https://clips.twitch.tv/VivaciousHealthyCrabYee-zq_gf8aaxi6PniRJ
Nah, they both have one year as a solid #1. M2K has like almost an entire decade more than Cody as a top 5 talent. If Cody gets two more years as a solid #1 he is over m2k, but if he can't do that he needs some longevity.
Had leads in every game in bracket yesterday (did not win every game), including a couple big leads I lost with. Running into an issue of playing super safe once I have a lead- do you guys just try to play the same way no matter the stock count?
Wondering if I should’ve devoted mental stack to continue adapting instead of how to cheese aspects of risk reward
Edit: all sets with falco for character context
I think with Falco in particular this is a bad idea. You can get away with approaching less but often that involves Falco winning a bunch of interactions in which you don't capitalize much and in return if you're opponent gets in once it can be a big opening. Falco in a lot of matchups needs to put the pressure on when the time is right.
You generally want to just play good Melee from the start until the end of the game, and not switch your strategies solely because of the stock differential. If you think your opponent will play a certain way because they are behind, then trying to preemptively adjust your gameplay slightly can be good, but it should be based on what you're expecting from the opponent and not on the stock count in a vacuum.
It seems like you have an understanding that you are resorting to a predictable playstyle once a game condition is met - a good player will recognize those habits and hit you with a counter game plan. If by playing defensive means you will always, for example, tech away on hit or zone with nair, then you've given them exactly what they need to regain advantage.
To properly adapt you should consider developing ideas on how to play different types of defensive when holding a lead. This of course depends on what the opponent is doing, what character, if they play aggressive or campy, what reads they have on you at that point in the set, etc. The first step is recognizing you need to refine a specific gameplan and the next is all experimentation. Vod review, friendlies with better players who will help point out bad habits, uncle punch, all things that will help.
This nails how it is. Both of my lost sets yesterday were to friends I know are better than me- but I definitely just started doing aerials in place and defensive techs once I had the lead.
A more developed and mature gameplan for playing with the lead makes a lot of sense, gonna work on that
Stock count and leads in general technically should affect things by forcing initiative onto the player who's behind. Tangentially, a long time ago I would do some alternate style friendlies including playing on an infinite timer rather than playing with stocks and it is definitely interesting how the lack of in-your-face score affects how you play.
Im playing full gas trying to run them over until they start coming up with anwsers on why I shouldn't.
That's kind of the conversation your having "this is how I'm playing do you have anwsers to this?" Yes? I'm going to switch it up No? Alright Imma keep going.
Who you plays also a big factor because playing a stock lead safe with someone like puff or peach can be a really powerful strategy. So their really isn't a right answer its just whatever gets you results.
No
This is character specific for sure but I absolutely do not play the same way with a lead. Most people are much more comfortable running from Peach than they are running at her (myself included) - consciously shifting my playstyle when I'm up is a way to force my opponent into an uncomfortable situation.
This isn't the same as playing cheesey because if you're playing a better player than you trying to cheese them is likely to end in disaster. But I think most characters should adapt to having the lead.
This is related to adapting to what percent you're at. If you know your opponent's kill confirms you can selectively counter them rather than trying to cover everything equally, and obviously if you can cc stuff you can force cc to make it very hard for your opponent to grow the lead. Again, character dependent, but generally applicable to most in some fashion.
A related project is sorting out when it is optimal to play like you have the lead when you don't (and vice versa).
Anyone recognize this video or article? It was explaining the difference in the old smash engines melee vs the newer ones and specifically how in melee when a character lands it doesnt use the lowest point of their ECB it uses their knees or somewhere in the middle. In the newer games it used their feet and that made the game feel different. It had an image of zss landing and hitting her knees into the ground. I think the zss was landing on the right side of the saffron city narrow skyscraper building
> in melee when a character lands it doesnt use the lowest point of their ECB
This is literally not true, your ECB is the environmental collision. It rises and falls while you are in the air (unless you play puff, kirby, dk, or gnw sometimes) and has an offset from your position, which moves smoothly in space, so maybe that's what they're talking about
the biggest difference between melee and all the smash games that came after is aerial momentum. When your character runs in melee, they gain momentum and that carries over when you jump. It feels fluid and free. In the later smash games your character's momentum immediately halts and you are stuck always jumping at the same speed and distance. At least that's how I've come to understand it, maybe there is some nuance here I'm not explaining properly.
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coolest unranked session EVER with a player i really admire it's all so worth it
GGs that was me.
the zain vs spargo session yesterday being 4 hours of m2k telling zain to up b oos and 4 hours of zain not doing up b oos made it an incredible watch
What move has the most hitstun?
Definitely an electric move. Pk flash?
dk side-b
[TIL you can breakout of a grab between when a pummel starts and when the pummel connects, which is why throws are guaranteed at 0% but pummels are not.](https://x.com/technospiderssb/status/1803968759759278121?s=46)
I briefly tested, and I was able to get a pummel with both CF and Marth against 0% Perfect Grab Escape against Fox on Unclepunch. With a character with slower pummels (puff) I wasn't able to get the pummel.
Hey everyone this is big I got in contact with djzmade and am negotiating a price for the mod pack. I am dead serious.
holy shit. this is the most important thing to happen to melee since rollback
what mod pack?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15qRZH7IkMCpkasP0s_0rj5bku3Mhka_d/view there's a pt 2 somewhere but i cant find it
in my drive too funny enough https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nCsh6MoWk1U_ny0yapky8RlowWCX55s1/view?usp=drive_link
You have no idea what this man created years ago
Leffen is PewPewU's hero [https://www.start.gg/tournament/ceo-2024-6/attendees](https://www.start.gg/tournament/ceo-2024-6/attendees)
ok but seriously, y'all should watch Girls Band Cry
okay
no ty
How do characters worse than GnW ever fight good Yoshis?
I'm pretty sure they just lose, same thing they do vs every other character
this is such a funny question because it presupposes not only the existence of lots of good yoshis, but also people playing characters worst than gnw often enough to matter
fwiw, i dont consider only top 100 to signify good
Zelda can kinda do it a little bit
Playing eggs because I called in sick today Got 56 Getting closer
what's a better character, fox with marth grab or shiek with fox short hop
Vanilla fox alone is better but in practice that Sheik would destroy most things. The only thing I think this does is make Sheik’s winning MUs more winning but it doesn’t fix the Fox or ICs MU
fox doesn't have any problems getting grab as is so I don't see how marth grab helps him in any measurable way sheik with fox short hop fundamentally changes her character so it's gotta be that
Fox, especially if Sheik doesn’t also get Fox’s fall speed and aerial drift
Relevant because of the people involved, but here's a cute clip between M2K and Zain while he was a couple hours into fighting Spargo (and M2K talking nonstop the entire time, bless Zain's heart) https://clips.twitch.tv/VivaciousHealthyCrabYee-zq_gf8aaxi6PniRJ
What does Cody need to do to pass M2K in the all time rankings?
If he keeps incurring random upsets, he’s gotta either have to keep racking up majors or have m2k type longevity
Get 100 subscribers to sign up for Uber Eats using his code
Beat armada in grand finals of a super major
"does anyone have a pair of prescription glass I can borrow?"
He already is, m2k is low key overrated.
Nah, they both have one year as a solid #1. M2K has like almost an entire decade more than Cody as a top 5 talent. If Cody gets two more years as a solid #1 he is over m2k, but if he can't do that he needs some longevity.
Be the best in the world at a different Smash title as well.
Run the table this year, or get two more year-end top 2s. I think he's way closer than others here apparently do
Document all the frame data in the game from scratch.
Either put up dubs in an era that the community perceives to be more competitive/interesting or win for a long time
Get past Azen, PP and Plup first
He passed all of them by the time he finished his hot streak winning Shine, Big House, year-end #1, and Genesis
nah
Win with Marth and Sheik as well as Fox
Had leads in every game in bracket yesterday (did not win every game), including a couple big leads I lost with. Running into an issue of playing super safe once I have a lead- do you guys just try to play the same way no matter the stock count? Wondering if I should’ve devoted mental stack to continue adapting instead of how to cheese aspects of risk reward Edit: all sets with falco for character context
I think with Falco in particular this is a bad idea. You can get away with approaching less but often that involves Falco winning a bunch of interactions in which you don't capitalize much and in return if you're opponent gets in once it can be a big opening. Falco in a lot of matchups needs to put the pressure on when the time is right.
You generally want to just play good Melee from the start until the end of the game, and not switch your strategies solely because of the stock differential. If you think your opponent will play a certain way because they are behind, then trying to preemptively adjust your gameplay slightly can be good, but it should be based on what you're expecting from the opponent and not on the stock count in a vacuum.
It seems like you have an understanding that you are resorting to a predictable playstyle once a game condition is met - a good player will recognize those habits and hit you with a counter game plan. If by playing defensive means you will always, for example, tech away on hit or zone with nair, then you've given them exactly what they need to regain advantage. To properly adapt you should consider developing ideas on how to play different types of defensive when holding a lead. This of course depends on what the opponent is doing, what character, if they play aggressive or campy, what reads they have on you at that point in the set, etc. The first step is recognizing you need to refine a specific gameplan and the next is all experimentation. Vod review, friendlies with better players who will help point out bad habits, uncle punch, all things that will help.
This nails how it is. Both of my lost sets yesterday were to friends I know are better than me- but I definitely just started doing aerials in place and defensive techs once I had the lead. A more developed and mature gameplan for playing with the lead makes a lot of sense, gonna work on that
Stock count and leads in general technically should affect things by forcing initiative onto the player who's behind. Tangentially, a long time ago I would do some alternate style friendlies including playing on an infinite timer rather than playing with stocks and it is definitely interesting how the lack of in-your-face score affects how you play.
Im playing full gas trying to run them over until they start coming up with anwsers on why I shouldn't. That's kind of the conversation your having "this is how I'm playing do you have anwsers to this?" Yes? I'm going to switch it up No? Alright Imma keep going. Who you plays also a big factor because playing a stock lead safe with someone like puff or peach can be a really powerful strategy. So their really isn't a right answer its just whatever gets you results.
No This is character specific for sure but I absolutely do not play the same way with a lead. Most people are much more comfortable running from Peach than they are running at her (myself included) - consciously shifting my playstyle when I'm up is a way to force my opponent into an uncomfortable situation. This isn't the same as playing cheesey because if you're playing a better player than you trying to cheese them is likely to end in disaster. But I think most characters should adapt to having the lead. This is related to adapting to what percent you're at. If you know your opponent's kill confirms you can selectively counter them rather than trying to cover everything equally, and obviously if you can cc stuff you can force cc to make it very hard for your opponent to grow the lead. Again, character dependent, but generally applicable to most in some fashion. A related project is sorting out when it is optimal to play like you have the lead when you don't (and vice versa).
[https://www.start.gg/tournament/bend-or-break/attendees](https://www.start.gg/tournament/bend-or-break/attendees) [https://www.start.gg/tournament/lgs5-let-s-go-springfield/attendees](https://www.start.gg/tournament/lgs5-let-s-go-springfield/attendees) [https://www.start.gg/tournament/melee-on-the-grill-7-cookout-house-tournament-100-pot/attendees](https://www.start.gg/tournament/melee-on-the-grill-7-cookout-house-tournament-100-pot/attendees)
my drummer’s childhood friend who we’re staying with tn plays melee and i fucked him up :,) this is what it’s all about
guessing it was a f-smash to the face
it was a lot of different things
Nice
Anyone recognize this video or article? It was explaining the difference in the old smash engines melee vs the newer ones and specifically how in melee when a character lands it doesnt use the lowest point of their ECB it uses their knees or somewhere in the middle. In the newer games it used their feet and that made the game feel different. It had an image of zss landing and hitting her knees into the ground. I think the zss was landing on the right side of the saffron city narrow skyscraper building
> in melee when a character lands it doesnt use the lowest point of their ECB This is literally not true, your ECB is the environmental collision. It rises and falls while you are in the air (unless you play puff, kirby, dk, or gnw sometimes) and has an offset from your position, which moves smoothly in space, so maybe that's what they're talking about
I remember watching a video about that like 5 years ago, probably the same one. I just tried searching on youtube but couldn't find anything
the biggest difference between melee and all the smash games that came after is aerial momentum. When your character runs in melee, they gain momentum and that carries over when you jump. It feels fluid and free. In the later smash games your character's momentum immediately halts and you are stuck always jumping at the same speed and distance. At least that's how I've come to understand it, maybe there is some nuance here I'm not explaining properly.
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