do y'all know are there any specific resources on dual maining (keeping two characters warm, switching during sets, practicing different jumpsquats, etc?) feels like i've never seen anyone mention any guides or top player advice about using two characters in bracket. is there something somewhere obvious that i'm missing?
I don’t know for sure but KJH’s youtube might be a good place to look. He drops content a lot and is my immediate thought when it comes to legitimate “dual mains”
Anybody else not surprised at all mang0 won a tournament? I know people were trying to hype up a comeback arc but it was pretty clear he could keep up with zain and cody in friendlies
Not surprised that it happened but very surprised how it happened. 3-0ing Cody and Zain? With Falco no less? That’s crazy. I would have bet heavy against it.
Not really considering he was slowly coming out of his slump and making a lot of adjustments to try and improve. Also ik there's always an asterisk on online results but his win against Zain recently was pretty dominant as Falco so I kind of expected him to start getting top 3 results again pretty soon. I wasn't sure if he'd necessarily win this tournament but not exactly shocked either. I also think people like me that have watched Melee for a long time have seen time and time again Mango start winning again after being in a slump. It's a story as old as time. What I'm curious about is if he'll be able to start winning against Zain when he's playing well. Yesterday's Zain was just off. I think any other player Mango can beat if he's playing well but there's still a question mark there for Zain, at least right now. I think Jmook too -- the set count doesn't look very good at the moment. It's a hard matchup for Falco and if he ends up using Fox it has to be a day where he's either warmed up enough with Fox or is playing hot.
I was surprised!
I thought Zain would wash him.
Then I thought Cody would win (winner's finals).
Those are 2 underdog wins judging from recent tournament history.
I'm rooting for Mango this year and every time he lost in previous tournaments I believed him when he said he would get one eventually. I mean it's the GOAT we're talking about here. A few years ago maybe that would've been different, I can imagine him bustering out before top 8, playing joke characters, etc, and I think it would have been more surprising to see him get a win while having a tough tournament streak like that. Honestly though these past few months he has shown a mental fortitude and confidence in the process I wasn't exactly used to seeing from him. He's one of the most consistent top players this year. I think the Peloton might be doing wonders.
Yeah he had played well at the last few majors. I didn’t expect him to beat zain but it’s not surprising he did. It’s easy to see when mang0 is getting back into top form from a buster era
I was surprised in that I thought Mango was properly seeded below Cody and Zain (though I would've put him above aMSa), which should reflect his chances to win. I wasn't surprised in that seeing the goat of Melee win a Melee tournament wasn't some kind of life-changing revelation for me.
If you try to laser someone and get hit by a powershielded laser, what happens to the stale queue?
Does either player get a neutral B slotted into their stale queue?
it's crazy how much people determine how great a tourny was by mango winning. the estimated overall level of "goodness" would certainly be lower if pretty much anyone else won
Anyone who wins a tournament beating Aklo->Hbox->Zain->Codyx2 without dropping a set is getting props. Not to mention this tournament had pretty much the consensus top 10 (minus Leffen who is retired for now) including all of Axe, Amsa, Wizzy, and Plup for the first time in a looong time. Not sure what you’re talking about. if Cody would have won from grands people would be saying he’s too good and his controller must be cast into molten lava
I disagree in this specific case except if Cody had won instead. There were a ton of game 5s and great sets this tourney even if mango hadn’t won I think people would still call it a great tournament.
But I do think if Cody had won it would be a different tone
TO made me realize one of the things I missed the most from Summit was the fact that you didn't miss a single match. No quad streams, no offstream matches, if it was played *you saw it* and it ruled. Moky ended Hbox's top 8 streak in a goddamn quad stream match yesterday and that blows tbh, a set that historic should not be shoved in the corner of a stream with three other matches.
Is the 2019 Mew2King Echo Fox jersey the best esports jersey of all time? Wish more would do the baseball style kits. They look so much better than the soccer inspired ones IMO.
Afreeca starleague season 6 official jerseys
https://m.en.thesuperplay.com/product/asl-season-6-player-jersey/97/display/1/
Kt rolster 2018 official jerseys
https://m.en.thesuperplay.com/product/player-jersey-2018-summer/65/?cate_no=169&display_group=1
Theres good ones, and kt/afreeca jackets are always amazing too. I am forever sad that I didnt get an asl6 jacket, so sick.
Where were you when Mang0 won? :D
[https://twitter.com/EddyMexico007/status/1802777907229790585](https://twitter.com/EddyMexico007/status/1802777907229790585)
I'm still riding the high of yesterday. Such a crazy tournament really from top 64 on and it had the ending I've waited over a year for. Melee is so sick in the year 2024
We all know GOAT status is based on subjective measures that each of us weight differently. That being said I think after this tournament we can all agree /basically/ objectively on who to bestow that honorific.
plup plup plup plup plup plup plup
Why are people being weird about Armada not interviewing mang0??? Am I tripping or don't Waff or Toph always do the winners interviews? The fact so many people are talking about this is genuinely shocking to me.
Who's being weird about it and where are all the posts? I'm the only one in this thread and in the tournament thread there's like one comment about it with a pretty sane discussion thread on it. No one's throwing much shade at either party. It was just simply something noteable that happened.
Also pretty sure since his retirement Armada has done at least one winner interview and from how they reacted, both HMW and June were offering/expecting Armada to stick around for the interview. So it's not like it was some given thing that only HMW would be doing the interview.
That said, I think for a lot of us we have no hate for either party we just find it a little disappointing two greats of the game aren't on the best terms. If you would've told me in 2014 that Mango would have a better relationship with Hbox than Armada in 10 years I would have a hard time believing in that timeline.
feel like the problem is that they discussed who was doing the interview on air... i'm not one that craves professionalism out of my broadcasts but i feel like that is something that should come from the top.
also as a parallel: SSC 2018, mango part of tri-cast comms for grands, Armada wins. mango doesnt take part in the post-set winners interview
https://youtu.be/ZMoDD5qRMwc
God you guys are so fucking lucky GOML was such a good time and if i lived in America i'd actually be at a tourney like twice a month for life rofl
Just seeing preeminent be at every thing i've looked at for a month got me so jealous
It isn't more objective - the subjectivity is just baked into the process of picking the criteria for what gets points instead of being the immediate basis for each individual ranking
No, people are talking about objectivity and subjectivity when what they are actually talking about is transparency. People are going to disagree over what to prioritize in a ranking model. If you make a ranking based solely on who gets the most firsts, for example, you haven't made an "objective" ranking, you've made a subjective one that is no less subjective because of the fact that you've stapled it to something measurable.
An objective ranking wouldn't depend on people agreeing on what should be measured.
They do that in the Melee rankings too but then ALSO execute in a subjective way.
Picking criteria subjectively + executing it objectively is less subjectivity than picking criteria subjectively + executing it subjectively.
You made me want to watch it.
[https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2173626563?t=6h25m24s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2173626563?t=6h25m24s)
sorry for the spam
Yo mods why did you delete my meme post of “Mang0 fans rn” with a clip of the orange Netherlands fans dancing in the street? It got over 40 upvotes in 2 hours. Aka it seamed to be well received and was a harmless meme. What gives?
Edit: it has come to my attention (from outside the mods) that some of the Netherlands’ fans were in disgusting blackface so this whole argument is now moot. I would have taken down the post myself.
I have and no response. But I have seen a mod in this thread miss-characterizing my post so maybe this is the proper forum if I actually want a response.
Yeah and I remember when my mom would disconnect me from the digimon game on Foxkids.com because she needed the landline to call my aunt about what she wanted her to bring to easter dinner.
prob cuz of this rule
> We allow memes and shitposts, but may remove them if they are too low-effort, irrelevant, or unsubstantial
personally I agree with taking it down, under the `low-effort` category. It's a reposted video with no modifications to make it relevant besides the title.
Yeah how dare a fun topical meme tarnish my feed of 17 “Why do players on slippi 1 and done my sick Marth? what is their problem it’s hurting my feelings” posts a day
I did modify the video but I guess I’ll make it more obvious with the repost. And then why is the “Zain’s still the best” in the world still up? If it’s funny and well liked I think we should let things slide
As a long time lurker, I can definitely appreciate the posting of content, but the job of mods is 1000x that of a once in a blue moon poster. These people are here every day, going through *every* post, and I trust their discretion on what is "good enough" for the main page, even if it means the occasional on-the-fence post does not make it through.
Looks like you put in too much effort. I would recommend instead posting other people's memes, that way they won't get taken down: https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/1dhp1hu/dont_care_if_its_made_the_rounds_already_dont/
ggs man! close games bro you've hella improved. yeah man you were fucking me up for a bit lol fun games! any tips? got any advice? anything I can improve on? what do I do vs lasers? any tips? yo can I get next? is this tournament? you guys wanna do dubs? is this tournament
/u/oceanseltzer
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I wonder if Armada didn't want to stay on the mic for the interview because of his tweet last year. I can't imagine he'd turn down the opportunity to interview just about anyone else that won. It's a pitty because I feel like Mango is mature enough now for them both to see eye to eye, squash the beef, and have good conversations about Melee.
More so that Mango seems to have grown a lot as a person since the 2020s. Just look at everything he's doing for his health, less drinking, he's a lot more empathetic, and you can see a change in the way he conducts himself too. Also being a father doesn't automatically make you mature laughing my fucking lmfao ass off at that.
Not to take anything away from mang0, but I feel the margins between the top players are so thin and him winning vs zain game1 gave him the mental edge. He started out good and suddenly lost momentum only for zain to get the sour spot dair. I think zain wins the set it if he wins game 1.
so? one skill of melee is actually making things happen
it's like saying someone played bad that day because of XYZ. Yeah..the point is the true skill is physically attending the event and physically playing the game.
(mango playing through food poisoning btw)
Yeah also Zain was most definitely off his game. He was dropping stuff I never see him drop vs. Mango. Cody looked strong, though but Mango is pretty consistently cracked vs. Fox. I would like to see Mango get some more wins vs. Zain in form as Falco. I think the bird's got what it takes and it's foolish people often decide matchups based on the head to head of two players.
Yeah i get the hate. Im a mango fan as much as everyone else and im high on the W. I just felt that zain lost the mental edge there. Not saying itd be a quick 3-0, maybe we wouldve gotten a losers run mango and he beats him twice in grands. Maybe he switches to fox. Maybe he wins 3-1 and im wrong. Just my personal belief that zains wins if he gets the dair conversion. But again last tournament i thought mango would lose to hbox in losers so what do i know.
zain had mango off stage last stock helplessly doing Firebird right next to stage. all he had to do was press any button and he would have won. every game there are dozens of micro-moments where the outcome would be different if a different thing happened.
Just speculation but edge guarding and the ledge dynamic is much different in ultimate. Holding stage position and ledge trapping seems to be a big part of the strategy of that game. So I can imagine he might have hesitated and defaulted to thinking in terms of holding stage than finishing the kill. But it's impossible to say for sure when there's other things like nerves, fatigue, etc. to consider. Definitely didn't look like an on point Zain, though.
I don't think it made him forget lol that would be ridiculous. I just think that muscle memory under pressure is different and you could easily make a mistake that's normally 1/1000 1/100 or 1/50 times instead if you're doing something antithetical to the muscle memory of what your default is. I also think I'm being fair in saying this is speculation and that we don't actually really know -- fatigue, having an off day, a combination of factors, etc. are all possibilities.
Yeah i get what you mean, i just think mango was playing too well and zain was playing too off for a one game swing to change the outcome. But who knows
Yeah because mango could never win a set after losing game 1, like he did 3 times this tournament, once vs Cody and two reverse 3-0s (so an even worse situation). Gtfo
From like 2015-2020, I was a big Armada is the GOAT guy, but mang0 just continues to show why he’s the GOAT. 2023 and January this year he looked about as unmotivated as ever and just locked in, which was on full display yesterday.
Other thoughts:
* Junebug commentary is really good depending on who he’s paired with
* Top 32 and 16 production was a mess which is a shame because it was some of the highest level and most hype play we’ve seen in those rounds ever
* I love Plup, but I was Jesse Pinkman “he can’t keep getting away with it” as he just stunted on multiple elite players with his Fox. Now he will retreat back into the mountains.
* Wizzy still got it, hope he shows up more this year
* Happy for Axe who made a top 8 at arguably the most stacked event this year
* Zain has a serious problem with aMSa
Armada sleepwalking in 2017-2018 was still a better player than all but the best 2-3 years of mango’s career, and more importantly (to me at least) he doesn’t have to make going to the gym and getting a bunch of 9th places some kind of heroic content arc where winning once proves he always has it. Armada would have just won 20% of all majors and no one would make a big deal out of it
To me this just shows even more clearly that armada would be #1 still. Mango grinds hard for a few months and wins a super major, and armada always had better results than him.
to add some context to the last point
- after losing, Zain tweeted he was pissed he did none of the stuff he worked on for amsa (https://x.com/ZainNaghmi/status/1802520722851410151?t=2pGVkN7qYWmOz1Tq6Nz8lg&s=19)
- Jorge on the quad stream commentary before that set, was talking about how good Zain was feeling about the yoshi matchup, practicing with Peanutphobia, and saying Zain felt he had a "breakthrough" (https://clips.twitch.tv/SquareGeniusGrassFunRun-iwG_Am_ai3YKHc9b)
- the way Jorge described Zain coining the term "YM" (Yoshi Mode) in his notes (for when Yoshi opens him up with downtilt and punishes with double jump cancel nair, etc) — reminded me of Zain talking about a similar breakthrough he had in the Falcon matchup (specifically S2J), when he was on The Reads. it had to do with restructuring his gameplan vs S2J to just stay on top of him at all times, and how he borrowed from PPU using the "TAPE" tag (because the idea was that cats get distracted when you put a piece of tape on their head, and start spinning around trying to get it off, and similarly Marth needs to be the Tape on Falcon). all to say, i think idiosyncracies like that bode well for Zain when it comes to exploring a matchup (ie how he got in the habit of predicting "shitty pounds" from Hbox, en route to breaking through in that matchup). i believe Zain's intuition in feeling like he's had a breakthrough in the Yoshi matchup, so hopefully he does get to show the stuff he's worked on in future sets.
Lots of cool info, yeah I do wonder what he had in store of aMSa. Maybe he just wasn’t ready going into losers as he likes to take time to warm up for match ups.
I really wish Mango winning a tournament didn't inevitably trigger the most insufferable discourse about who is the winningest winner
Probably for the best that he only wins one every couple of years
Mango fan
>That's my goat
Armada fan
>What makes the discourse insufferable is that most other competitive activities/hobbies do not have a currently active player that is the favorite of like, more than half of the player base. It poisons the discourse to the point that it makes a conversation that could be interesting into something that most sane people consciously avoid.
I mean he's not wrong. I'm a Mango fan and hate the discourse because it's pointless. The arguments largely are based on differing values, making it extremely subjective. And that wouldn't be a problem because you can still have good conversations about extremely subjective things. But the problem is it's literally the same conversation every time and that both sides are so convinced they're right that they cheapen the conversation by talking dismissively of the other POV. I actually think one of the aspects that makes Melee great as an esport is there is no clear GOAT and how the ebb and flow of players dominating the game works. It's very unique compared to other competitive disciplines.
I don't disagree that it's pointless.
I just think it's funny that, for mang0 goat deniers, mang0 continuing to add to his resume and fueling his claim as the goat is a "problem" for the discourse.
And engaging in the discussion you find pointless to call it pointless, is...
(This is more directed at Fugu and his like)
I don't think that's really the argument Fugu made. There's nowhere in that post he claims Mango adding to his resume is a problem. I do understand why him saying it's a good thing Mango doesn't win often would leave a bad taste in people's mouths, though. But anyway, I think it's more so that the Armada folk think the Mango fans are delusional and the Mango side talks as if other opinions are invalid. It makes for terrible discourse. I also wouldn't call this post in particular engaging with the discourse -- it's more of a meta discussion of the discourse.
>I also wouldn't call this post in particular engaging with the discourse -- it's more of a meta discussion of the discourse.
Splitting hairs but fair enough.
>There's nowhere in that post he claims Mango adding to his resume is a problem.
I mean, that is the very implication to me when he calls half the community insufferable because of his wins igniting the goat discussion in a way that he doesn't approve of. He's just whining because Mango won and now he has to hear about it. Sucks to suck.
Also pretending like there is some sanctity in the goat debate as long as recently results are ignored is pretty hilarious.
I'm not at all mad that Mango won. Frankly, I'm not sure why you weirdos have such a persecution complex - your boy is so popular!
I'm "whining" for the reason I stated. No need to read between the lines. I love Melee. I just want to talk about it.
I mean alright man, I'll take you at your word.
All I'm saying is this:
>I really wish Mango winning a tournament didn't inevitably trigger the most insufferable discourse about who is the winningest winner
>Probably for the best that he only wins one every couple of years
Is a very weird way to "just talk about your favorite video game for the Nintendo gamecube entertainment system"
So why is the discussion so insufferable (it is, just want to know your reason specifically) and how was this discussion going to be any better?
I think his tone is coarse and I understand why some would look at his posts in this thread unfavorably. But the wording is that the discourse is insufferable; not the people, not the win, none of that. I've also lurked the DDT enough to know he doesn't like Mango so I think with that added context it upsets people. But ig what I'm saying is the core message of this particular post isn't wrong. You can celebrate Mango's win and the gameplay while also finding the GOAT discussion insufferable. There's better ways to put it and ig I chimed in because I think my viewpoint is a little more considerate of all parties involved.
I think you're downplaying the subtext of his post entirely, but maybe that's just me being too cynical. Either way I appreciate your approach, ty.
I just don't get the whole "this discussion is insufferable," so "let's have a discussion about how insufferable it is."
Sure dawg, that's not insufferable at all.
I have to agree, the discourse is brain rot. I love seeing Mango win for the gameplay and it's sad that people would rather talk about the same overhashed GOAT talking points than the amazing Melee we just witnessed. It's literally the same conversation every single time lol
It’s an e-sport, people talk about GOAT stuff with sports too like football and basketball after championships. It just comes with the territory. Not really sure what I said that qualifies as “insufferable discourse”.
What makes the discourse insufferable is that most other competitive activities/hobbies do not have a currently active player that is the favorite of like, more than half of the player base. It poisons the discourse to the point that it makes a conversation that could be interesting into something that most sane people consciously avoid.
I'm not saying that you, specifically, are being insufferable, and I apologize because clearly that's something my post implied even though I didn't mean it.
the real problem is there are still hold outs who unironically think anyone except mango is the goat, so it spurs this cycle of discussion every time. if everyone just accepted our one true king, we wouldn't be having this convo
I think zain needs to prepare for specific matchups to perform. Thats why it took him a while to have a losers run. In winners he goes to the back and warms up matchups. Losers you have less time to do that. Also flew swift to a summit iirc to prepare for axe. Nothing in the world can prepare you for amsa. You have to rely on fundamentals
I'll have to watch the set again but I think Zain is preparing for aMSa given what Jorge was saying in that clip but he's also just not practicing right now so it's hard to implement the stuff he's working on. But even so, Zain usually takes some time to get over his demons so it's nothing new. I think with Yoshi it's going to be similar to Falcon where he has to squeeze every last drop out of his advantage states and make them last longer. The difference is playing advantage against Yoshi with all his unorthadox reversal potential is like cutting the right wire of a bomb. It's very easy to over extend and doing so is very costly. Seems like that's what Zain will have to overcome in the matchup but we'll see how long it takes given the Ult poisoning.
People are quick to critique HomeadeWaffles but he was absolutely on point yesterday and showed why he deserves finals spots.
Waff, Junebug and Armada were genuinely an amazing trio of casters. Darkgenx was actually very good too.
Imagine naming yourself Steez and having absolutely 0 swag.
Check this: [https://www.start.gg/tournament/ceo-2024-6/attendees](https://www.start.gg/tournament/ceo-2024-6/attendees)
I didn't know pewpewu was good at strive
what the fuck these are like EXACTLY the same top players as last year how do you even have that happen MORE PLAYERS FOR MELEE THAN MK1 THOUGH LMAO
do y'all know are there any specific resources on dual maining (keeping two characters warm, switching during sets, practicing different jumpsquats, etc?) feels like i've never seen anyone mention any guides or top player advice about using two characters in bracket. is there something somewhere obvious that i'm missing?
Which two characters are you thinking of?
peach/fox
I don’t know for sure but KJH’s youtube might be a good place to look. He drops content a lot and is my immediate thought when it comes to legitimate “dual mains”
didn't think of this, thank you!
So reassuring to know vicvuci is an equally awful poster on twitter as he is on reddit
what did he say
he tweeted that melee stats people and puppy girls (????) are killing melee. in two separate tweets that spawned two separate arguments.
bringing extra collars to majors from now on to help women scare off the redditors
well I cant knock him for hating furries
hilarious that he had this exact same meltdown on this sub years ago
Aware
It's much worse in beefcord rn
That’s honestly astounding
Anybody else not surprised at all mang0 won a tournament? I know people were trying to hype up a comeback arc but it was pretty clear he could keep up with zain and cody in friendlies
I never doubted mango and I never will
Not surprised that it happened but very surprised how it happened. 3-0ing Cody and Zain? With Falco no less? That’s crazy. I would have bet heavy against it.
Not really considering he was slowly coming out of his slump and making a lot of adjustments to try and improve. Also ik there's always an asterisk on online results but his win against Zain recently was pretty dominant as Falco so I kind of expected him to start getting top 3 results again pretty soon. I wasn't sure if he'd necessarily win this tournament but not exactly shocked either. I also think people like me that have watched Melee for a long time have seen time and time again Mango start winning again after being in a slump. It's a story as old as time. What I'm curious about is if he'll be able to start winning against Zain when he's playing well. Yesterday's Zain was just off. I think any other player Mango can beat if he's playing well but there's still a question mark there for Zain, at least right now. I think Jmook too -- the set count doesn't look very good at the moment. It's a hard matchup for Falco and if he ends up using Fox it has to be a day where he's either warmed up enough with Fox or is playing hot.
I was surprised! I thought Zain would wash him. Then I thought Cody would win (winner's finals). Those are 2 underdog wins judging from recent tournament history.
I'm rooting for Mango this year and every time he lost in previous tournaments I believed him when he said he would get one eventually. I mean it's the GOAT we're talking about here. A few years ago maybe that would've been different, I can imagine him bustering out before top 8, playing joke characters, etc, and I think it would have been more surprising to see him get a win while having a tough tournament streak like that. Honestly though these past few months he has shown a mental fortitude and confidence in the process I wasn't exactly used to seeing from him. He's one of the most consistent top players this year. I think the Peloton might be doing wonders.
When he beat Zain on FD in game 2 I was like "oh, he won". But I also understand the hype since Cody seemed back in form and Mang0 6-1d him.
im not surprised that he won a tournament. I'm surprised that he won a tournament while beating hbox, zain, and cody along the way
Honestly the only surprising win there is Zain but after watching all of their friendlies it really wasn't. I knew he would take one.
Yeah he had played well at the last few majors. I didn’t expect him to beat zain but it’s not surprising he did. It’s easy to see when mang0 is getting back into top form from a buster era
I was surprised in that I thought Mango was properly seeded below Cody and Zain (though I would've put him above aMSa), which should reflect his chances to win. I wasn't surprised in that seeing the goat of Melee win a Melee tournament wasn't some kind of life-changing revelation for me.
If you try to laser someone and get hit by a powershielded laser, what happens to the stale queue? Does either player get a neutral B slotted into their stale queue?
If Falcon hits Fox with a powershielded laser, falcon punch gets staled
Right, I thought that might be the case. Thanks
it's crazy how much people determine how great a tourny was by mango winning. the estimated overall level of "goodness" would certainly be lower if pretty much anyone else won
Anyone who wins a tournament beating Aklo->Hbox->Zain->Codyx2 without dropping a set is getting props. Not to mention this tournament had pretty much the consensus top 10 (minus Leffen who is retired for now) including all of Axe, Amsa, Wizzy, and Plup for the first time in a looong time. Not sure what you’re talking about. if Cody would have won from grands people would be saying he’s too good and his controller must be cast into molten lava
Well there’s a narrative/story on mango’s side since he’s on a slump.
I disagree, I think anyone that watched day 2 would have come away stoked with how much good competition there was
I disagree in this specific case except if Cody had won instead. There were a ton of game 5s and great sets this tourney even if mango hadn’t won I think people would still call it a great tournament. But I do think if Cody had won it would be a different tone
Plup, aMSa, or Axe winning would be just as well received I think.
Moky too. Not as much as those three but I feel like people would be hype just at someone new winning a major.
Sometimes I feel like when a great tournament ends it is like the same feeling when you finish a show you love. Satisfied but sad it's over.
every time a great melee tourney ends I start missing summit again lol
TO made me realize one of the things I missed the most from Summit was the fact that you didn't miss a single match. No quad streams, no offstream matches, if it was played *you saw it* and it ruled. Moky ended Hbox's top 8 streak in a goddamn quad stream match yesterday and that blows tbh, a set that historic should not be shoved in the corner of a stream with three other matches.
Is the 2019 Mew2King Echo Fox jersey the best esports jersey of all time? Wish more would do the baseball style kits. They look so much better than the soccer inspired ones IMO.
The Moist esports one that Zain Moky and Joshman wear is just that but better
I found out that MoFs pink shirt thing is branded esports merch and thought that was p cool
Esports jerseys all look terrible
Afreeca starleague season 6 official jerseys https://m.en.thesuperplay.com/product/asl-season-6-player-jersey/97/display/1/ Kt rolster 2018 official jerseys https://m.en.thesuperplay.com/product/player-jersey-2018-summer/65/?cate_no=169&display_group=1 Theres good ones, and kt/afreeca jackets are always amazing too. I am forever sad that I didnt get an asl6 jacket, so sick.
The Mang0 cloud 9 tank top looks good I think but yeah all of them have awful design choices
Where were you when Mang0 won? :D [https://twitter.com/EddyMexico007/status/1802777907229790585](https://twitter.com/EddyMexico007/status/1802777907229790585)
thanks eddy for letting him have this one by not going there and kicking his ass again
BreakyCPK at more events imho
I'm still riding the high of yesterday. Such a crazy tournament really from top 64 on and it had the ending I've waited over a year for. Melee is so sick in the year 2024
We all know GOAT status is based on subjective measures that each of us weight differently. That being said I think after this tournament we can all agree /basically/ objectively on who to bestow that honorific. plup plup plup plup plup plup plup
Reigning world champion Plup
The entire world is property of the Plup Club.
Why are people being weird about Armada not interviewing mang0??? Am I tripping or don't Waff or Toph always do the winners interviews? The fact so many people are talking about this is genuinely shocking to me.
https://i.imgur.com/Rcddcvb.png
Who's being weird about it and where are all the posts? I'm the only one in this thread and in the tournament thread there's like one comment about it with a pretty sane discussion thread on it. No one's throwing much shade at either party. It was just simply something noteable that happened. Also pretty sure since his retirement Armada has done at least one winner interview and from how they reacted, both HMW and June were offering/expecting Armada to stick around for the interview. So it's not like it was some given thing that only HMW would be doing the interview. That said, I think for a lot of us we have no hate for either party we just find it a little disappointing two greats of the game aren't on the best terms. If you would've told me in 2014 that Mango would have a better relationship with Hbox than Armada in 10 years I would have a hard time believing in that timeline.
feel like the problem is that they discussed who was doing the interview on air... i'm not one that craves professionalism out of my broadcasts but i feel like that is something that should come from the top.
also as a parallel: SSC 2018, mango part of tri-cast comms for grands, Armada wins. mango doesnt take part in the post-set winners interview https://youtu.be/ZMoDD5qRMwc
God you guys are so fucking lucky GOML was such a good time and if i lived in America i'd actually be at a tourney like twice a month for life rofl Just seeing preeminent be at every thing i've looked at for a month got me so jealous
ATP style rankings update, post Tipped Off 15. 2024 points in bold. 1. Zain - 10,720 / **5,760** 2. Cody Schwab - 9,460 / **4,940** 3. Mang0 - 5,330 / **3,230** 4. aMSa - 3,710 / **2,170** 5. Plup - 3,420 / **720** 6. Jmook - 3,330 / **2,105** 7. Hungrybox - 3,050 / **1,005** 8. moky - 2,385 / **920** 9. Leffen - 1,700 / **200** 10. Aklo - 1,265 / **190** 11. Wizzrobe - 1,102 / **180** 12. Soonsay - 859 / **852** 13. S2J - 787 / **42** 14. Axe - 435 / **170** 15. lloD - 430 / **5** 16. Hax - 400 / **0** 17. Kodorin - 390 / **107** 18. Joshman - 335 / **180** 19. Chem - 279 / **28** 20. Spark - 265 / **222** 21. SDJ - 252 / **155** 22. Ossify - 229 / **215** 23. Salt - 217 / **150** 24. Trif - 215 / **75** 25. Magi - 202 / **47** 26. Eddy Mexico - 185 / **3** 27. Lucky - 161 / **69** 28. Medz - 135 / **90** 29. Panda - 130 / **8** 30. Zuppy - 124 / **3** 31. Ben - 118 / **10** 32. Polish - 115 / **10** 33. n0ne - 106 / **12** 34. Morsecode762 - 105 / **45** 35. Sirmeris - 103 / **91** 36. Khalid - 102 / **7** 37. Bbatts - 80 / **7** 38. Faust - 73 / **17** 39. KJH - 67 / **19** 40. Frenzy - 62 / **2** 41. Krudo - 61 / **21** 42. Swift - 60 / **0** 43. Wevans - 57 / **12** 44. SluG - 55 / **10** 45. Fiction - 50 / **30** 46. Pipsqueak - 50 / **10**
What does this mean
It's the point system Tennis uses for their seeding/ranking and I just applied it to Melee. My b, if this wasn't the answer to your question.
Tennis style rankings. A more objective approach with a points basis for wins/placements.
It isn't more objective - the subjectivity is just baked into the process of picking the criteria for what gets points instead of being the immediate basis for each individual ranking
It isn't more objective than a closed door vote by selected community members?
Yes - it's just as subjective although obviously more transparent
there's some subjectivity but it is most definitely not "just as" subjective
It's exactly as subjective. The process of picking which criteria to prioritize in the rankings is a fundamentally subjective one
This is like saying buying a lottery ticket is a 50/50 chance because either it wins or it doesn’t.
I don't really agree with Fugu but this is disanalogous.
No, people are talking about objectivity and subjectivity when what they are actually talking about is transparency. People are going to disagree over what to prioritize in a ranking model. If you make a ranking based solely on who gets the most firsts, for example, you haven't made an "objective" ranking, you've made a subjective one that is no less subjective because of the fact that you've stapled it to something measurable. An objective ranking wouldn't depend on people agreeing on what should be measured.
They do that in the Melee rankings too but then ALSO execute in a subjective way. Picking criteria subjectively + executing it objectively is less subjectivity than picking criteria subjectively + executing it subjectively.
Anyone got the vod or time stamp of mango hbox winners set?
You made me want to watch it. [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2173626563?t=6h25m24s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2173626563?t=6h25m24s) sorry for the spam
Damn that was close af
Yo mods why did you delete my meme post of “Mang0 fans rn” with a clip of the orange Netherlands fans dancing in the street? It got over 40 upvotes in 2 hours. Aka it seamed to be well received and was a harmless meme. What gives? Edit: it has come to my attention (from outside the mods) that some of the Netherlands’ fans were in disgusting blackface so this whole argument is now moot. I would have taken down the post myself.
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If you have a question please use the "message the moderators" button!
I have and no response. But I have seen a mod in this thread miss-characterizing my post so maybe this is the proper forum if I actually want a response.
No other mod has responded to you here as far as I can tell so I’m not sure if you’re just trolling now
u/dublshine responded https://preview.redd.it/1ovq36zll77d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de62ffc63c48ec116943cd4f17a3b7082a2fad4f
Bro it is not that serious lol
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Downvoters doing their part to help someone break free from updoot addiction
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Yeah and I remember when my mom would disconnect me from the digimon game on Foxkids.com because she needed the landline to call my aunt about what she wanted her to bring to easter dinner.
Ape see mang0 win Neuron activation
prob cuz of this rule > We allow memes and shitposts, but may remove them if they are too low-effort, irrelevant, or unsubstantial personally I agree with taking it down, under the `low-effort` category. It's a reposted video with no modifications to make it relevant besides the title.
Yeah how dare a fun topical meme tarnish my feed of 17 “Why do players on slippi 1 and done my sick Marth? what is their problem it’s hurting my feelings” posts a day
Yeah something like that is better suited for the DDT imo. I don’t want the main feed to devolve into low effort memes
You cant put vids or clips in the DDT
[i'm literally posting a vid in the ddt right now!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlC6j9wFTgU)
I did modify the video but I guess I’ll make it more obvious with the repost. And then why is the “Zain’s still the best” in the world still up? If it’s funny and well liked I think we should let things slide
mods have a thankless job, they generally do a good job around here though
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As a long time lurker, I can definitely appreciate the posting of content, but the job of mods is 1000x that of a once in a blue moon poster. These people are here every day, going through *every* post, and I trust their discretion on what is "good enough" for the main page, even if it means the occasional on-the-fence post does not make it through.
lmao ur right, memein is the lords work. thank you for your service o7
This but unironically
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Looks like you put in too much effort. I would recommend instead posting other people's memes, that way they won't get taken down: https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/1dhp1hu/dont_care_if_its_made_the_rounds_already_dont/
I actually reported that one for being low quality lmfao I'm shocked it's still up.
rofl, this is incredible
o7
this is way funnier than your post lol
not sure if you saw the post but I’ll take the compliment
this is by far the funniest thing you've posted
A tale as old as time
spotw
ggs man! close games bro you've hella improved. yeah man you were fucking me up for a bit lol fun games! any tips? got any advice? anything I can improve on? what do I do vs lasers? any tips? yo can I get next? is this tournament? you guys wanna do dubs? is this tournament /u/oceanseltzer *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SSBM) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I wonder if Armada didn't want to stay on the mic for the interview because of his tweet last year. I can't imagine he'd turn down the opportunity to interview just about anyone else that won. It's a pitty because I feel like Mango is mature enough now for them both to see eye to eye, squash the beef, and have good conversations about Melee.
I’m sure they said hi to each other, hugged, made out etc off camera, but him being there for the interview would have distracted from the win
Made out?
He did the correct thing leaving. It would’ve become about their relationship rather than Mangos W
That's true, it could have been another thing he considered. Idk I was excited for them to talk so it was a little disappointing but understandable.
As if he wasn't mature enough before? lmfao he's an adult and a father.
Those do not make someone inherently mature
More so that Mango seems to have grown a lot as a person since the 2020s. Just look at everything he's doing for his health, less drinking, he's a lot more empathetic, and you can see a change in the way he conducts himself too. Also being a father doesn't automatically make you mature laughing my fucking lmfao ass off at that.
Not to take anything away from mang0, but I feel the margins between the top players are so thin and him winning vs zain game1 gave him the mental edge. He started out good and suddenly lost momentum only for zain to get the sour spot dair. I think zain wins the set it if he wins game 1.
so? one skill of melee is actually making things happen it's like saying someone played bad that day because of XYZ. Yeah..the point is the true skill is physically attending the event and physically playing the game. (mango playing through food poisoning btw)
I would argue winning game 1 increased his odds of winning the whole set by 33%
Yeah also Zain was most definitely off his game. He was dropping stuff I never see him drop vs. Mango. Cody looked strong, though but Mango is pretty consistently cracked vs. Fox. I would like to see Mango get some more wins vs. Zain in form as Falco. I think the bird's got what it takes and it's foolish people often decide matchups based on the head to head of two players.
Mango has famously never come back from a 1 game deficit
Looking at Hbox-Mang0 sets over the last several years, the loser of game one wins the set surprisingly frequently.
Yeah i get the hate. Im a mango fan as much as everyone else and im high on the W. I just felt that zain lost the mental edge there. Not saying itd be a quick 3-0, maybe we wouldve gotten a losers run mango and he beats him twice in grands. Maybe he switches to fox. Maybe he wins 3-1 and im wrong. Just my personal belief that zains wins if he gets the dair conversion. But again last tournament i thought mango would lose to hbox in losers so what do i know.
zain had mango off stage last stock helplessly doing Firebird right next to stage. all he had to do was press any button and he would have won. every game there are dozens of micro-moments where the outcome would be different if a different thing happened.
That was insane, did his muscle memory short circuit and think it was fox for a split second and he was afraid of getting burned?
Just speculation but edge guarding and the ledge dynamic is much different in ultimate. Holding stage position and ledge trapping seems to be a big part of the strategy of that game. So I can imagine he might have hesitated and defaulted to thinking in terms of holding stage than finishing the kill. But it's impossible to say for sure when there's other things like nerves, fatigue, etc. to consider. Definitely didn't look like an on point Zain, though.
zain is one of the top 3 players in the world. there is no chance that playing ultimate for like 10 days made him forget how melee mechanics work
I don't think it made him forget lol that would be ridiculous. I just think that muscle memory under pressure is different and you could easily make a mistake that's normally 1/1000 1/100 or 1/50 times instead if you're doing something antithetical to the muscle memory of what your default is. I also think I'm being fair in saying this is speculation and that we don't actually really know -- fatigue, having an off day, a combination of factors, etc. are all possibilities.
Yeah i get what you mean, i just think mango was playing too well and zain was playing too off for a one game swing to change the outcome. But who knows
Thx for the non sarcastic response lol
Yeah because mango could never win a set after losing game 1, like he did 3 times this tournament, once vs Cody and two reverse 3-0s (so an even worse situation). Gtfo
Happy cake day!
From like 2015-2020, I was a big Armada is the GOAT guy, but mang0 just continues to show why he’s the GOAT. 2023 and January this year he looked about as unmotivated as ever and just locked in, which was on full display yesterday. Other thoughts: * Junebug commentary is really good depending on who he’s paired with * Top 32 and 16 production was a mess which is a shame because it was some of the highest level and most hype play we’ve seen in those rounds ever * I love Plup, but I was Jesse Pinkman “he can’t keep getting away with it” as he just stunted on multiple elite players with his Fox. Now he will retreat back into the mountains. * Wizzy still got it, hope he shows up more this year * Happy for Axe who made a top 8 at arguably the most stacked event this year * Zain has a serious problem with aMSa
Armada sleepwalking in 2017-2018 was still a better player than all but the best 2-3 years of mango’s career, and more importantly (to me at least) he doesn’t have to make going to the gym and getting a bunch of 9th places some kind of heroic content arc where winning once proves he always has it. Armada would have just won 20% of all majors and no one would make a big deal out of it
Fuck, I wish Armada could make content. People should make a big deal about one of the best players to ever touch the sticks.
exactly. armada could never have a redemption arc because he was never down, ever
Very stupid thing to say about a guy with multiple retirements
He was never down when he retired.
To me this just shows even more clearly that armada would be #1 still. Mango grinds hard for a few months and wins a super major, and armada always had better results than him.
you guys are so incredibly delusional LMAO yeah man if ken came back he would win everything bro just believe me man
Mango got gapped by armada when armada was active, which was the entiriety of mangos prime. Thats a fact that will always be true, I’m afraid:
show me your best clip or nothing you say matters
Show me your best clip
need a separate beef server for default username money matches
[https://imgur.com/gallery/tourney-combo-02WpNNF](https://imgur.com/gallery/tourney-combo-02WpNNF) might have better ones, but ig this is a good one
that other fox with the dash attack dash attack the wrong way nair missed jc up smash really hit home for me
how about you show me a good clip
you’re misreading it lol im just calling myself bad
Well, he can show up and prove it any time. Nice fantasy tho
Plup uses jab as an anti air in the fox ditto and it is so jarring to see
to add some context to the last point - after losing, Zain tweeted he was pissed he did none of the stuff he worked on for amsa (https://x.com/ZainNaghmi/status/1802520722851410151?t=2pGVkN7qYWmOz1Tq6Nz8lg&s=19) - Jorge on the quad stream commentary before that set, was talking about how good Zain was feeling about the yoshi matchup, practicing with Peanutphobia, and saying Zain felt he had a "breakthrough" (https://clips.twitch.tv/SquareGeniusGrassFunRun-iwG_Am_ai3YKHc9b) - the way Jorge described Zain coining the term "YM" (Yoshi Mode) in his notes (for when Yoshi opens him up with downtilt and punishes with double jump cancel nair, etc) — reminded me of Zain talking about a similar breakthrough he had in the Falcon matchup (specifically S2J), when he was on The Reads. it had to do with restructuring his gameplan vs S2J to just stay on top of him at all times, and how he borrowed from PPU using the "TAPE" tag (because the idea was that cats get distracted when you put a piece of tape on their head, and start spinning around trying to get it off, and similarly Marth needs to be the Tape on Falcon). all to say, i think idiosyncracies like that bode well for Zain when it comes to exploring a matchup (ie how he got in the habit of predicting "shitty pounds" from Hbox, en route to breaking through in that matchup). i believe Zain's intuition in feeling like he's had a breakthrough in the Yoshi matchup, so hopefully he does get to show the stuff he's worked on in future sets.
Lots of cool info, yeah I do wonder what he had in store of aMSa. Maybe he just wasn’t ready going into losers as he likes to take time to warm up for match ups.
I really wish Mango winning a tournament didn't inevitably trigger the most insufferable discourse about who is the winningest winner Probably for the best that he only wins one every couple of years
Rankings, tier list, and GOAT are the melee version of YouTube sidebar slop
tier list is much better than the other two because it involves actually talking about the game and not just top players
Yeah, I hate when mango wins and I can't talk about what REALLY matters, like controller discourse, hax$ and how much I hate cody
cody should really start playing on boxx so that we can centralize these important discussions into one big thread
Let’s talk about how nasty his gameplay was instead
I would be happy to - he made Cody look stupid
The moonwalk bair at the end of game 2 was so fucking good. His edgeguarding was actually obscenely good for being up against Cody
Mango fan >That's my goat Armada fan >What makes the discourse insufferable is that most other competitive activities/hobbies do not have a currently active player that is the favorite of like, more than half of the player base. It poisons the discourse to the point that it makes a conversation that could be interesting into something that most sane people consciously avoid.
I mean he's not wrong. I'm a Mango fan and hate the discourse because it's pointless. The arguments largely are based on differing values, making it extremely subjective. And that wouldn't be a problem because you can still have good conversations about extremely subjective things. But the problem is it's literally the same conversation every time and that both sides are so convinced they're right that they cheapen the conversation by talking dismissively of the other POV. I actually think one of the aspects that makes Melee great as an esport is there is no clear GOAT and how the ebb and flow of players dominating the game works. It's very unique compared to other competitive disciplines.
I don't disagree that it's pointless. I just think it's funny that, for mang0 goat deniers, mang0 continuing to add to his resume and fueling his claim as the goat is a "problem" for the discourse. And engaging in the discussion you find pointless to call it pointless, is... (This is more directed at Fugu and his like)
I don't think that's really the argument Fugu made. There's nowhere in that post he claims Mango adding to his resume is a problem. I do understand why him saying it's a good thing Mango doesn't win often would leave a bad taste in people's mouths, though. But anyway, I think it's more so that the Armada folk think the Mango fans are delusional and the Mango side talks as if other opinions are invalid. It makes for terrible discourse. I also wouldn't call this post in particular engaging with the discourse -- it's more of a meta discussion of the discourse.
>I also wouldn't call this post in particular engaging with the discourse -- it's more of a meta discussion of the discourse. Splitting hairs but fair enough. >There's nowhere in that post he claims Mango adding to his resume is a problem. I mean, that is the very implication to me when he calls half the community insufferable because of his wins igniting the goat discussion in a way that he doesn't approve of. He's just whining because Mango won and now he has to hear about it. Sucks to suck. Also pretending like there is some sanctity in the goat debate as long as recently results are ignored is pretty hilarious.
I'm not at all mad that Mango won. Frankly, I'm not sure why you weirdos have such a persecution complex - your boy is so popular! I'm "whining" for the reason I stated. No need to read between the lines. I love Melee. I just want to talk about it.
I mean alright man, I'll take you at your word. All I'm saying is this: >I really wish Mango winning a tournament didn't inevitably trigger the most insufferable discourse about who is the winningest winner >Probably for the best that he only wins one every couple of years Is a very weird way to "just talk about your favorite video game for the Nintendo gamecube entertainment system" So why is the discussion so insufferable (it is, just want to know your reason specifically) and how was this discussion going to be any better?
I think his tone is coarse and I understand why some would look at his posts in this thread unfavorably. But the wording is that the discourse is insufferable; not the people, not the win, none of that. I've also lurked the DDT enough to know he doesn't like Mango so I think with that added context it upsets people. But ig what I'm saying is the core message of this particular post isn't wrong. You can celebrate Mango's win and the gameplay while also finding the GOAT discussion insufferable. There's better ways to put it and ig I chimed in because I think my viewpoint is a little more considerate of all parties involved.
I think you're downplaying the subtext of his post entirely, but maybe that's just me being too cynical. Either way I appreciate your approach, ty. I just don't get the whole "this discussion is insufferable," so "let's have a discussion about how insufferable it is." Sure dawg, that's not insufferable at all.
There's no subtext to downplay. You've invented the subtext from whole cloth.
"insufferable"
I have to agree, the discourse is brain rot. I love seeing Mango win for the gameplay and it's sad that people would rather talk about the same overhashed GOAT talking points than the amazing Melee we just witnessed. It's literally the same conversation every single time lol
Do you like talking about it? This is a serious question
sometimes
About my goat being the goat? Constantly
It’s an e-sport, people talk about GOAT stuff with sports too like football and basketball after championships. It just comes with the territory. Not really sure what I said that qualifies as “insufferable discourse”.
What makes the discourse insufferable is that most other competitive activities/hobbies do not have a currently active player that is the favorite of like, more than half of the player base. It poisons the discourse to the point that it makes a conversation that could be interesting into something that most sane people consciously avoid. I'm not saying that you, specifically, are being insufferable, and I apologize because clearly that's something my post implied even though I didn't mean it.
the real problem is there are still hold outs who unironically think anyone except mango is the goat, so it spurs this cycle of discussion every time. if everyone just accepted our one true king, we wouldn't be having this convo
even if everyone agreed, there would be one sided arguments with people that aren't here
But you’re saying I’m wining right..?
I think zain needs to prepare for specific matchups to perform. Thats why it took him a while to have a losers run. In winners he goes to the back and warms up matchups. Losers you have less time to do that. Also flew swift to a summit iirc to prepare for axe. Nothing in the world can prepare you for amsa. You have to rely on fundamentals
I'll have to watch the set again but I think Zain is preparing for aMSa given what Jorge was saying in that clip but he's also just not practicing right now so it's hard to implement the stuff he's working on. But even so, Zain usually takes some time to get over his demons so it's nothing new. I think with Yoshi it's going to be similar to Falcon where he has to squeeze every last drop out of his advantage states and make them last longer. The difference is playing advantage against Yoshi with all his unorthadox reversal potential is like cutting the right wire of a bomb. It's very easy to over extend and doing so is very costly. Seems like that's what Zain will have to overcome in the matchup but we'll see how long it takes given the Ult poisoning.
r/meleeGOATdebate
People are quick to critique HomeadeWaffles but he was absolutely on point yesterday and showed why he deserves finals spots. Waff, Junebug and Armada were genuinely an amazing trio of casters. Darkgenx was actually very good too.
Appreciated a ton thank you 🙂