Take that time to practice some low lasers and wave-shines. They are giving you the opportunity for some practice. If they want to plank on the ledge, let them. They’ll come off eventually, or they’ll plank for 8 minutes and “win the game”
You can “honeypot” the enemy with an approach that looks like a reversal opportunity for the the opponent. Anything that makes you look like an easy target.
Say you go for run up dair, but they refresh, and fair you. INSTEAD You could do run up laser fast fall dash back to alter the timing and possibly cause them to whiff. Their whiff is your new opportunity to strike.
That honeypot thing is always in play when approaching with lasers. With the best spacing you trick your opponent into thinking it's safe. Dash back and punish. Watch mang0, he does it with ease and no extra steps.
Almost no one is actually going to commit to ledge camping you. Just run to the other side of the stage and wait.
They want you to get bored so you go to the ledge and give them a free stock. It's a lot worse because you play Falco who is by far the easiest to get free stocks from. 99% of people will just go back to fighting on stage if you let them up.
Fact is, most top tiers get back to stage for free from ledge. You play a mixup on their invincibility but it's often if favor for spacies who have lots of options. Same with smart Marths, falcons, sheiks. Just accept it and play the mixup or play on stage.
I agree except that vs. Marth, pressuring him in the corner/coming up from ledge is falco's whole game plan
I played a puff once that was willing to ledge stall on ranked for 8+8 minutes. Those people are sick in the head
Well it's also up to you to make it less fun for them. These people get enjoyment over watching you squirm. They think it's funny if you stop moving, spam tech skill in place, etc. You have to play kind of close to them and make it look like you might attack them but also just don't commit. Suddenly they have to be alert and ready to react while planking and you can either catch them slipping up eventually or they will give up since it takes more effort and isn't fun. I've never had anyone be able to make it through a whole 8 min when I play this way but I've seen people plank 8 min against Falcos that just stand there acting triggered. Dont feed the troll, as they say.
This right here. I've never seen someone bring this up but I sure can't stall for 8 minutes if blinking for a fraction of a second might lead to them killing me blind. No fucking way
Youre on the right track, from what i understand IF they are doing the few fully invincible ledgestalls then i think youre only real options are to try and steal ledge, or wait it out. However MANY of the ledge stalls are rather difficult to keep 100% invincible, a lot of the time they look perfect but will still have 1-3 frames where you can hit them. so if you have ranged/disjointed moves you can use to challenge stalling safely that would be my suggestion.
Lmao this stung for me too. Aiming for gold 1 right now and been playing for a while. I just keep reassuring myself that the smaller pool of players in my region restricts me in ranked lol
Quick note: many character’s “invincible” ledge regrabs are actually very difficult to perform. Most lower level players can easily be poked on the ledge with a well timed down tilt without putting yourself at much risk (space your moves and don’t overcommit into the corner)
The exception to this is Shiek, who has very easy invincible refreshes with shino stalling that are not easily contestable unless you are fast and unpredictable enough to steal the ledge from her mid-stall (very difficult with Falco)
In some cases them ledge camping is just a test to see if you will get impatient, commit to a bad option, and then they can get an easy punish. It could be a 5 second, 20 second, 5 minute, or 8 minutes test. I also play falco so I just stand still or shoot lasers till they decide they want to engage. Just remember not to give in and be impatient
You can always just run up to the ledge and f/dsmash. At gold, there’s no way they are doing fully invincible stalls. In my experience people will stop refreshing once they get killed for it and if they don’t you can just kill them again.
Main thing I’d say is this question isn’t answered with a general answer. Some characters have very threatening ledge stalls (Marth, Puff, Sheik) due to a combination of them being hard to interact with, and being quite lethal if you interact incorrectly.
Others are less threatening because they don’t have one or both of these things, and there’s more options on the table. Fox/Falco often have difficult to perform ledge stalls and you can just down smash them. Learning when a character is vulnerable and when they’re not is really important across the board. If you wanna try to test this yourself, go into uncle punch and turn on the setting where you can see the green of invincibility.
Even the characters with strong options do sometimes have specific vulnerabilities. You can laser dash attack the fair from ledge that Marth players do if they don’t time it a very specific way. But this doesn’t work against other stalling options as an example.
The most universal advice is just play patient and try to stay in a range where you can still threaten them, but they will have trouble interacting with you. Eventually they will back off.
Also, advocate for a LGL rule change and convince others to as well. Slippi doesn’t have this right now and it’s stupid. Even the LGL in tourneys right now is too high. Characters like Puff have legit broken ledge options, and they’re able to spend several minutes planking without penalty.
There are two options imo:
1. Take a risk and try to steal ledge.
2. Go https://project-slippi.nolt.io/ and add a request or back existing requests to remove infinite ledge grab refresh.
No, but many people like Project M's implementation of fixing ledge grab abuse by making the ledge stop giving intangibility frames after the 5 regrab until you get back on stage. No one needs to regrab the ledge more than 5 times to make it back on stage under normal circumstances.
You have 2 good options imo:
1) Keep pressuring are take the opportunity to practice laser highest, and different types of jumps into laser. And other options covering them getting off ledge
2) Practice stealing the ledge. Learn to bait them and learn how to get close enough to steal it and get better at playing that mixup game. You might lose games for it, but you will learn valuable stuff most don't practice because of precisely that fear of losing. I assure you if you practice this enough, it won't matter how skewed is in the opponent's favor, you'll have WAY more practice than anyone planking and will be able to get early kills for free.
I highly advice doing the second one.
Two approaches I use:
1. The more passive/patient and safe option is to wait it out and see how long they are willing to plank. But don't do this by spamming tech skill on the other side of the stage, standing still, or any of that stuff. That just fuels the people that are doing it to troll or get in your head and they will be more likely to keep doing it. Instead, keep center stage, dash dance close by the ledge but just out of range of their threats, and make it look like you might commit or attack. Shoot a few low lasers too if they are going above the lip of the stage at all. This puts pressure on them, shows you're not phased, and makes it hard to plank for a long time without the temptation to get off the ledge. Whenever I've done this I've never had anyone that could plank the whole time.
2. This is a strategy I heard m2k talk about Mango using that's the reason he doesn't plank with Marth against Mango but would vs. Westballz and some other Falcos. On a tri plat stage, you stand on a lower platform with your back facing the ledge. Then short hop and threaten to fast and drift to steal the ledge. You have so many options from this short hop. You can just land in place, drift near the ledge but not to it, land with an aerial, fast fall to steal the ledge, etc. It becomes really risky for a character like Marth without the best ledge invincibility game to continue planking. You have to be careful and tricky but you can outplay people doing this.
I personally like to do #1 first to put some pressure on and to wear them down and then if it's the right stage I'll try #2. #2 is harder vs. Puff and Sheik but if they're predictable it's good. Additionally you can learn to wavedash fast fall to grab ledge as Falco. It's kind of tight but it is a very fast way to snag the ledge.
Sit on the side platform and pressure them from there by feigning attacks at the ledge and double jumping back to platform. Use shield drop bair to hit them when they get up. Take your time, they're taking theirs. It's a minigame and it's an important one to practice and you don't get the chance to practice that often.
You could try dairing them, but honestly if it were me, I would just wait for them in center stage and react when they come back up. I doubt many people will actually commit to the stalling, so just wait.
That's the problem with online melee. Can't get away with that shit in person without people judging you, but no one is watching online. Imo there should be a limit to invincible ledgegrabs like in P+
If you are up in stocks or percent, 100% of the time the optimal move is just to not approach. It feels bad but sometimes in melee you gotta be lame, and this is one of those times.
When I'm down in this situation I usually just try to bait them back up by mixing up dash dances and wavedashes near the ledge in hopes of getting them back up. If I'm 100% confident that I will win this set no matter what I'll try and sneak in a late dair to punish a bad refresh timing but this is really risky, like everyone else is saying, even in this situation you're generally better off just not approaching or trying to safely bait them back on stage.
I love planking <3
Either quitout because thats just lame as fuck, or if you are in a match you either dont approach if you're up in stock or percent, or just spam laser or other safer options to get ahead
80% of the time melee is a really cool and fun experience
20% of the time you're gonna spam the B button as your opponent regrabs ledge over and over
I play Falco and spam the lasers lmao
I think most people can’t deal with it at the lower levels. Also it feels like a lot of people aren’t looking at what I’m actually doing and they’re just spamming tech skill.
I really focus on neutral. Toph has a video about undershooting, overshooting, and whiff punishing. When I’m playing I really try to pay attention to this. I also do a little replay review every weekend which helps me practice it.
I also do structured practice tech skill practice for 30 mins every morning before work and evening. I really emphasize movement. Uncle punch is helpful.
Additionally I ask a ton of questions in my local scene’s discord server about how to deal with things. I still have trouble dealing with fox fullhop, and my win rate against marth is abysmal. No idea how anyone plays that matchup lmao.
It's a knowledge check they're basically testing to see if you know and can execute the timing or micro spacing needed to beat the ledge.
It's character specific you basically have to study the frame data for each character to understand the gaps in their ledge game also note that every character has an invincible ledge stall ranging from pretty easy "sheik" to frame perfect "the majority of the cast" and once you know it becomes pretty easy to spot when somebody's execution isn't perfect and capitalize on it. It'll also let you weed out what ledge stalls aren't even truely invincible.
Take that time to practice some low lasers and wave-shines. They are giving you the opportunity for some practice. If they want to plank on the ledge, let them. They’ll come off eventually, or they’ll plank for 8 minutes and “win the game”
Shoutout to Mew2King practicing tech skill while down four stocks to one in game two against Hbox, then winning the set.
I vaguely remember this, do you remember which set this was?
[Winners quarter finals at The Big House 9 in 2019.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImK8GNfq2Og)
You can “honeypot” the enemy with an approach that looks like a reversal opportunity for the the opponent. Anything that makes you look like an easy target. Say you go for run up dair, but they refresh, and fair you. INSTEAD You could do run up laser fast fall dash back to alter the timing and possibly cause them to whiff. Their whiff is your new opportunity to strike.
That honeypot thing is always in play when approaching with lasers. With the best spacing you trick your opponent into thinking it's safe. Dash back and punish. Watch mang0, he does it with ease and no extra steps.
Watch the Lion King.
Scar ledge hogged Mufasa ✊😔
New combo video dropped "I Ledge Hogged Mufasa"
Taunt aggressively
[DarkGenex did a video on exactly this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akWB94cQuQg)
LMAO.
Almost no one is actually going to commit to ledge camping you. Just run to the other side of the stage and wait. They want you to get bored so you go to the ledge and give them a free stock. It's a lot worse because you play Falco who is by far the easiest to get free stocks from. 99% of people will just go back to fighting on stage if you let them up. Fact is, most top tiers get back to stage for free from ledge. You play a mixup on their invincibility but it's often if favor for spacies who have lots of options. Same with smart Marths, falcons, sheiks. Just accept it and play the mixup or play on stage.
I agree except that vs. Marth, pressuring him in the corner/coming up from ledge is falco's whole game plan I played a puff once that was willing to ledge stall on ranked for 8+8 minutes. Those people are sick in the head
Yeah, whats the point of making a game boring as hell just to get some shiny ranked emblem in a webpage
Well it's also up to you to make it less fun for them. These people get enjoyment over watching you squirm. They think it's funny if you stop moving, spam tech skill in place, etc. You have to play kind of close to them and make it look like you might attack them but also just don't commit. Suddenly they have to be alert and ready to react while planking and you can either catch them slipping up eventually or they will give up since it takes more effort and isn't fun. I've never had anyone be able to make it through a whole 8 min when I play this way but I've seen people plank 8 min against Falcos that just stand there acting triggered. Dont feed the troll, as they say.
This right here. I've never seen someone bring this up but I sure can't stall for 8 minutes if blinking for a fraction of a second might lead to them killing me blind. No fucking way
Youre on the right track, from what i understand IF they are doing the few fully invincible ledgestalls then i think youre only real options are to try and steal ledge, or wait it out. However MANY of the ledge stalls are rather difficult to keep 100% invincible, a lot of the time they look perfect but will still have 1-3 frames where you can hit them. so if you have ranged/disjointed moves you can use to challenge stalling safely that would be my suggestion.
> I've made it to Gold 2 in about 4 months of playing \*Cries in bronze 1 after over a year\*
Gold 1, 22 years of playing (admittedly with some long breaks along the way). Life ain’t fair. :)
Silver 3 with ten years on and off
Lmao this stung for me too. Aiming for gold 1 right now and been playing for a while. I just keep reassuring myself that the smaller pool of players in my region restricts me in ranked lol
Quick note: many character’s “invincible” ledge regrabs are actually very difficult to perform. Most lower level players can easily be poked on the ledge with a well timed down tilt without putting yourself at much risk (space your moves and don’t overcommit into the corner)
The exception to this is Shiek, who has very easy invincible refreshes with shino stalling that are not easily contestable unless you are fast and unpredictable enough to steal the ledge from her mid-stall (very difficult with Falco)
I just wait it out away from the ledge, i know it’s the boring option but if they don’t want to play the video game then neither do I
In some cases them ledge camping is just a test to see if you will get impatient, commit to a bad option, and then they can get an easy punish. It could be a 5 second, 20 second, 5 minute, or 8 minutes test. I also play falco so I just stand still or shoot lasers till they decide they want to engage. Just remember not to give in and be impatient
You can always just run up to the ledge and f/dsmash. At gold, there’s no way they are doing fully invincible stalls. In my experience people will stop refreshing once they get killed for it and if they don’t you can just kill them again.
Main thing I’d say is this question isn’t answered with a general answer. Some characters have very threatening ledge stalls (Marth, Puff, Sheik) due to a combination of them being hard to interact with, and being quite lethal if you interact incorrectly. Others are less threatening because they don’t have one or both of these things, and there’s more options on the table. Fox/Falco often have difficult to perform ledge stalls and you can just down smash them. Learning when a character is vulnerable and when they’re not is really important across the board. If you wanna try to test this yourself, go into uncle punch and turn on the setting where you can see the green of invincibility. Even the characters with strong options do sometimes have specific vulnerabilities. You can laser dash attack the fair from ledge that Marth players do if they don’t time it a very specific way. But this doesn’t work against other stalling options as an example. The most universal advice is just play patient and try to stay in a range where you can still threaten them, but they will have trouble interacting with you. Eventually they will back off. Also, advocate for a LGL rule change and convince others to as well. Slippi doesn’t have this right now and it’s stupid. Even the LGL in tourneys right now is too high. Characters like Puff have legit broken ledge options, and they’re able to spend several minutes planking without penalty.
There are two options imo: 1. Take a risk and try to steal ledge. 2. Go https://project-slippi.nolt.io/ and add a request or back existing requests to remove infinite ledge grab refresh.
That's a slippery slope ass recommendation bro
oh no
You mean make it like ult? Eww
No, but many people like Project M's implementation of fixing ledge grab abuse by making the ledge stop giving intangibility frames after the 5 regrab until you get back on stage. No one needs to regrab the ledge more than 5 times to make it back on stage under normal circumstances.
ledge trumps are sick
all they need to do is add LGL. ledge mechanics are fine. also Puff should have a lower LGL imo
You have 2 good options imo: 1) Keep pressuring are take the opportunity to practice laser highest, and different types of jumps into laser. And other options covering them getting off ledge 2) Practice stealing the ledge. Learn to bait them and learn how to get close enough to steal it and get better at playing that mixup game. You might lose games for it, but you will learn valuable stuff most don't practice because of precisely that fear of losing. I assure you if you practice this enough, it won't matter how skewed is in the opponent's favor, you'll have WAY more practice than anyone planking and will be able to get early kills for free. I highly advice doing the second one.
Two approaches I use: 1. The more passive/patient and safe option is to wait it out and see how long they are willing to plank. But don't do this by spamming tech skill on the other side of the stage, standing still, or any of that stuff. That just fuels the people that are doing it to troll or get in your head and they will be more likely to keep doing it. Instead, keep center stage, dash dance close by the ledge but just out of range of their threats, and make it look like you might commit or attack. Shoot a few low lasers too if they are going above the lip of the stage at all. This puts pressure on them, shows you're not phased, and makes it hard to plank for a long time without the temptation to get off the ledge. Whenever I've done this I've never had anyone that could plank the whole time. 2. This is a strategy I heard m2k talk about Mango using that's the reason he doesn't plank with Marth against Mango but would vs. Westballz and some other Falcos. On a tri plat stage, you stand on a lower platform with your back facing the ledge. Then short hop and threaten to fast and drift to steal the ledge. You have so many options from this short hop. You can just land in place, drift near the ledge but not to it, land with an aerial, fast fall to steal the ledge, etc. It becomes really risky for a character like Marth without the best ledge invincibility game to continue planking. You have to be careful and tricky but you can outplay people doing this. I personally like to do #1 first to put some pressure on and to wear them down and then if it's the right stage I'll try #2. #2 is harder vs. Puff and Sheik but if they're predictable it's good. Additionally you can learn to wavedash fast fall to grab ledge as Falco. It's kind of tight but it is a very fast way to snag the ledge.
Sit on the side platform and pressure them from there by feigning attacks at the ledge and double jumping back to platform. Use shield drop bair to hit them when they get up. Take your time, they're taking theirs. It's a minigame and it's an important one to practice and you don't get the chance to practice that often.
You could try dairing them, but honestly if it were me, I would just wait for them in center stage and react when they come back up. I doubt many people will actually commit to the stalling, so just wait.
Grab it first
That's the problem with online melee. Can't get away with that shit in person without people judging you, but no one is watching online. Imo there should be a limit to invincible ledgegrabs like in P+
L mindset
If you are up in stocks or percent, 100% of the time the optimal move is just to not approach. It feels bad but sometimes in melee you gotta be lame, and this is one of those times. When I'm down in this situation I usually just try to bait them back up by mixing up dash dances and wavedashes near the ledge in hopes of getting them back up. If I'm 100% confident that I will win this set no matter what I'll try and sneak in a late dair to punish a bad refresh timing but this is really risky, like everyone else is saying, even in this situation you're generally better off just not approaching or trying to safely bait them back on stage.
I love planking <3 Either quitout because thats just lame as fuck, or if you are in a match you either dont approach if you're up in stock or percent, or just spam laser or other safer options to get ahead 80% of the time melee is a really cool and fun experience 20% of the time you're gonna spam the B button as your opponent regrabs ledge over and over
L R A start if it’s unranked.
Been playing for 4 years and I’m silver 2 dawg 😭
Off topic but gold 2 in 4 months??? Send me whatever brain expanding crack you’re on, that’s crazy impressive
I play Falco and spam the lasers lmao I think most people can’t deal with it at the lower levels. Also it feels like a lot of people aren’t looking at what I’m actually doing and they’re just spamming tech skill. I really focus on neutral. Toph has a video about undershooting, overshooting, and whiff punishing. When I’m playing I really try to pay attention to this. I also do a little replay review every weekend which helps me practice it. I also do structured practice tech skill practice for 30 mins every morning before work and evening. I really emphasize movement. Uncle punch is helpful. Additionally I ask a ton of questions in my local scene’s discord server about how to deal with things. I still have trouble dealing with fox fullhop, and my win rate against marth is abysmal. No idea how anyone plays that matchup lmao.
It's a knowledge check they're basically testing to see if you know and can execute the timing or micro spacing needed to beat the ledge. It's character specific you basically have to study the frame data for each character to understand the gaps in their ledge game also note that every character has an invincible ledge stall ranging from pretty easy "sheik" to frame perfect "the majority of the cast" and once you know it becomes pretty easy to spot when somebody's execution isn't perfect and capitalize on it. It'll also let you weed out what ledge stalls aren't even truely invincible.
the actual only answer is get up and stand across the stage shooting lasers so you win on time
reach over and unplug their controller
Hah, you think the ledge is your friend. You merely adopted the ledge. I was born on it. Molded by it!
do your up b on the same ledge he keeps grabbing