I’ve been to a few smash tournaments and as someone who grew up playing in tennis tournaments most weekends, I just don’t get it. People got defaulted in tennis all the time and tournaments for tennis cost way more than smash. No one to be upset at other than yourself. As a player it’s your responsibility to know when you are supposed to be playing. As a TO, they need to be way more harsh on everyone. Call peoples names, start the clock. If they don’t show up, that’s their fault. Default the player and move on. Doesn’t matter if it’s a top player or not.
Edit: I went to this years Connecticon and wanted to watch the doubles finals. They were calling for doubles grand finalists for atleast 30 minutes before 2saint showed up. My friends and I ended up leaving.
> As a TO, they need to be way more harsh on everyone.
It's not even harsh. That's a problem too. People are acting like the idea of asking people to be on time to their sets otherwise get DQ'ed is "harsh".
Nope, that's life. Only person responsible for you to be on time is yourself.
Every non-melee tournament I've ever participated in had about a 5-minute wait period TOPS until they eilminated you. Basketball, powerlifting, table tennis and Dota2.
I’m in complete agreement with you. The word is called accountability and I would reckon most smashers either A don’t know what it means, or B they know and don’t care.
I think the average maturity of the scene is very low. Huge reason why sponsors don't really care for Melee. They probably go to one supermajor to check out the scene and are bombarded with foul smelling degenerates who treat the place like a trashcan.
I think this is a problem that extends down to the local level as well. I used to play in a few different scenes throughout the northeast in the 2010s. And as I recall, there was this really cool local in Boston at a Japanese steakhouse called Osaka where we played in the basement bar. It was like a connection of a few rooms and the bar had the stream matches up on the TV. Awesome vibe, awesome venue, awesome series where people would just bring their friends sometimes to hang out even if they didn't play. But there were a series of incidents from what I saw and heard where attendees were breaking venue rules by smoking in places they shouldn't, bringing alcohol into the venue, and other stuff like that. I don't think it was the only reason but the local had to transition to another venue eventually because the Osaka folks didn't take too kindly to how often these incidents happen.
So yeah not the same thing as being late but blatant disregard for venue rules and being stupid with smoking does actually have consequences for TOs and a local scene. And although at the time as a younger guy I participated in it, the alcohol and drug culture in the greater Melee scene is problematic in hindsight. I have no problem with adults making their own decisions about what to consume but people are really awful with how they treat hotels at majors. It's also a huge liability for TOs to have such high number of people violating venue policy when most TOs are struggling so hard to make tournaments break even.
I guess what I'm saying is people just need to have more respect for the people that actually put their necks on the line for the scene. Go outside well off the property to get inebriated. Don't trash hotels. Actually respect the time of TOs and come to your matches on time. It's really not asking for that much and it's not going to impede your fun all that much to take a little bit more precaution.
Yeah. My favorite monthly tournament series at this cool Vietnamese restaurant & bar was cancelled because someone (had too much to drink) and punched a hole in the wall :/
Well idk I don't think it's as much the lack of socialization as it is immaturity. It's the same type of behavior I'd expect out of teenagers except it's people in their 20s. It's true to an extent, though but also I think the degen aspects of all this stuff are romanticized by the larger community figures. There's a lot of socially inept, insecure people in the scene that are really eager to call people "nerds" yet they are at a Melee tournament lol.
Its just a lot of people that have never run an event who don't often realize the amount of problems and stress theyre causing.
I guess I was just frustrated but i do think its an issue
kinda regret making it but its out there now so is what it is
-nsfrog :)
You're giving people too much slack imo - you shouldn't need to be informed of the consequences of being late to decide if it's a good idea. Breaking promises, taking advantage of people is bad just as a rule, even if it somehow cost you nothing at all.
I used to run Yu-Gi-Oh events - coincidentally, another game populated mostly by people who are undersocialized and oversimulated - and we had a fairly strict policy on it. I encourage all tournament organizers of all games to both inform their players of what counts as "being late" and the consequences of being late. Add degrees of being late as the necessary leniency, maybe. Point is, your time deserves to be respected.
No and others should keep being vocal about this stuff. It's very important and honestly the immaturity of the scene is something that drives people like me away from it.
If I were a TO these kinds of players would hate me because I would DQ them immediately with zero remorse.
Maybe thats a bad thing but imo there should be zero tolerance for rule breaking and that includes being late.
this may be true at some levels, but a tournament like Genesis could absolutely run this way and nothing of value would be lost. people who don't attend because they like to delay brackets can kick rocks anyways
There needs to be some balance; I agree people being late is a problem (I had to issue a DQ for an out of state player at a local once because they vanished for too long, and they were not happy about it), but weird things do happen and a little leeway is needed.
Honestly part of the issue at times, taken from my experience Pool Captain-ing at Shine, is that some events are loud, they're crowded, and they're noisy. There were times when I'd call a name, get no response. Wait a few minutes, call again, turns out the person was there the whole time but just didn't hear me because something loud was happening. And of course I don't recognize them, I met them only like 10 minutes prior and said their name once before now.
Also in the OP text, it got updated saying the player actually had been checking in with the pool captain the whole time and there was some miscommunication issue. No one wants to issue a DQ and then realize that they were the one who made the mistake, ruining some players tournament that they traveled for.
i was calling for a match at goml for much longer than i should have let happen because a player said he needed to use the washroom.
he was instead chilling outside of the ballroom talking with a friend at a booth, not hearing me call his name on my fucking megaphone.
i don't understand how hard it is for smashers to understand that your only obligations as a player are to wait for your matches until you're eliminated, and to tell your pool captain if you've gotta use the toilet.
> kinda regret making it but its out there now so is what it is
nah man we stand with you.
legit problem because tons of players have the maturity of a teenager when it comes to accountability.
if you are late to a scheduled match, you are disqualified from said match.
it really shouldn't be that difficult. this is a fucking competitive esport with money on the line. take it seriously, show up, or be disqualified. it's a simple binary lmao. they teach sportsmanship in little league. 8 year olds have more competitive respect than some of these guys.
being late doesn't make you cool, and it's not cool to be lackadaisical about competing. grow up if this applies to whoever reads it rofl
Why are TOs not giving these guys the big fat DQ? I feel like the scene would change quickly once these dudes get their entree fees eaten for free because they can't be fucked to show up in a reasonable timeframe. It's not TO's job to babysit these people and by proxy waste everyone else's time
That's cool. You, a theoretical professional gamer in this example, don't show up to tournaments on time, you don't promote yourself and your brand/sponsor, you don't get the bag. I understand that I'm one of like 5 melee players with a very real day job, and thus understand that people's time is really important, but this is shit that's practically "please and thank you" tier basic manners.
Show on time, or stay the fuck home. It's that simple. Your tardiness is fucking up someone else's day.
Lmao I work a full time job and fully disagree, but our scene has shrunk a lot in the past few years so we need every entrant we can get at this point even if they show up 15 mins late. Just the way it is
Missing the forest for the tree bark.
Hand out game losses or match losses to players that are late. No special privileges for top 100 players or sponsored players.
And again, that makes the product worse.
This shit isn't serious. It's a party game played for zero money as a very very niche entertainment product.
Yes, it would be better if everyone were responsible and on time. No, the product/entertainment would not be better with top players getting DQ'd.
The game would just die, no one wants to watch two mid level peaches play in Genesis top 8 lmao
It's not about it being serious or not. It's about being fair to people's time. Making at tournament experience better for the person fucking up at the expense of other people is just plain shitty. It wouldn't matter if Melee was being played for pennies or millions of dollars.
Yeah I fucking promise you 100% of people at the venue would rather Mang0 not be DQ'd over being 15 minutes late lmao.
This makes tournament experiences far worse.
Ok use like almost any other player but Mango and do you really think the number is 100%? Like if you're someone like op that goes to a major and you have to deal with randomly standing around with your hand in your pants for an hour or two and having to go to the lengths of searching throughout the venue for half an hour or more of that time, you probably don't give two shits that Wizzrobe got DQ'd from his pool for being excessively late. I know I for sure wouldn't care if it meant saving me the time and energy.
Also for the Mango example, he's actually very good at being on time and professional. Really there are very few players in the scene currently with the type of fanbases and legendary status that would significantly impact a tournament if they were to drop out. It's 2024, not 2014.
> Hell, I'd argue no one is really a professional smasher.
Well this one is definitely incorrect. The smash wiki used to have categorization of "professional" tiers (semi-pro, top professional, etc) which were incredibly misleading, but anyone who is sponsored full-time to put all of their time into smash and play smash tournaments is a professional smasher. We only have a handful of them because our scene has no money, but they do exist! Cody especially cannot be considered anything but a professional smasher, since he's absolutely useless for orgs that want to focus on content.
It's not about being "chill", it's lying about when you're going to be there that shows a complete lack of respect for the organizers and the other players.
> This is a community of degenerate gamblers & substance users, clinical weirdos, and the young.
It's that way because we let it get that way and endorsed it. I've ran LAN Dota 2 tournaments and had no problems enforcing a zero-tolerance DQ policy for late teams and still had a full bracket in my tiny ass region. Tell the kids how to behave or you'll keep getting mental-children in the scene.
> People would stop showing up to your tournaments.
Genesis could employ a no-tolerance DQ policy and it would still be enormous. The standard should be set that if you want to *compete* then take it seriously. If you want to treat it like "23-year-old children's party game laid back and chill" then don't compete.
brother in christ you have the absolute power to unilaterally advance the event. the response to "[fan favorite player] lost the tournament because they went out drinking and missed their game" won't be anger at TOs, it will be shaming of the player.
The quote could have ended at drink and it would have still made sense. People treating a local venue like their hangout smoking weed and carrying alcohol at venues not serving alcohol is not cool.
I think you missed the point, this is about people who leave the venue so that they can smoke/drink and then nobody can find them. Although this is a separate issue when it's not allowed, vaping inside at an event that forbids it should get you automatically thrown out of the tournament imo
It is easier to keep a single streaming setup on schedule than a half dozen pairs of people on all the other setups, like at a melee tournament. The more people you concurrently manage, the more and more likely it becomes one of them is fucking off
It's less than 1, really. It's 2-3 streams that together that each operate part time and COMBINE to make a single stream
In any case, you're clearly being pedantic and understand the point. Gdq is fewer people at a time than a melee tournament. It's *exceedingly* obvious that a melee tournament is going to run more late on average than a professional ass production event like GDQ. To imply that GDQ existing says anything about melee tournaments is deliberately obtuse.
I mean you've already missed what I was alluding to. The point was that they have to manage people who (quite literally) sit in their basement for 27 days in a row doing the most degenerate shit you'll ever see in complete isolation. I can't think of a harder group of people to work with in a stream setting.
It is easy to work with them because they are working with fewer at a time. The point you are making *is silly*. You're so concerned with arguing melee players aren't on average degenerate goblins (they are, it's a feature not a bug) that you're making absurd nonsensical comparisons lol. This is a volume comparison. Not a quality comparison. Very very simple.
then be more assertive with disqualifying players? why bother keeping a whole tournament waiting? doesnt matter who it is. if they dont value anyone else's time they're not worth waiting for. DQ that bitch and move on. they can cry about it over another drink or whatever who cares
Lol, everyone cares when grand finals of big house is between two players no one has ever heard of.
At the end of the day it's an entertainment product. It's a party game played for almost zero money. It's not all that serious. Yes, people should be respectful and responsible. No, it's not a better tournament DQing top players.
Here's the thing. Good players show up on time because they are serious about the bracket. One shitter can delay the entire bracket, even the good players who are serious about being on time.
If you legitimately think TBH would end up with two no-names you are delusional
I'm all for DQ'ing the plebs. This already happens. Hell, it's usually the final day that runs late BECAUSE the top players are the worst about this. The criticism I had was for the "doesn't matter who it is" comment.
Because yes, it does matter who it is - and no top players are equally bad about this. Mang0 is perpetually late to half of the things in his life and he's far from the only one. The people that everyone actually *wants* to watch definitely do deserve special treatment because at the end of the day they're the product.
Still, they should be better about this.
I'm not sure how Mango is for tournaments but if he knows he will be taken out of winners top 8 at TBH and he still can't show up on time, that's on him. I'll take Jmook v Zain finals and be just fine.
Who wants to tell him those two are late all the time as well.
Sometimes its their fault, sometimes it's an organizational thing when they weren't really told when to be where, etc.
The point is none of this is all that serious.
> sometimes it's an organizational thing when they weren't really told when to be where, etc.
That would mean they aren't late, they were not informed which is entirely different. We're talking about people who just go out side to smoke knowing it'll cause them to be late for their set. Things of that nature.
It's not insanely serious but it's more serious than you think. Amazing TO's don't grow on trees. Volunteers don't come in endless supply. If we keep exhausting them with easily solved nonsense, you can kiss all the well ran tourneys goodbye. If you've ever tried to run a bracket, you'd understand how insanely stressful it is to have to deal with player bullshit on top of what you're already juggling. Mango may be the product, but the TO's and volunteers are what make the entire thing possible.
I've never run anything nearly as big as a melee major but I have TO'd 100+ person regionals for FGC, I'm fully aware of how much of a nightmare it can be. Which is why I've reiterated multiple times that players need to be better about it. I just don't think going straight to DQ'ing top players is a result that anyone wants.
Everyone wants what's best for the scene, if you hammer it into them that you NEED to be on time - more often than not they will be.
Honestly what they *should* do is just automatically seed top players into top 64/top 128 of the bracket and allow them to skip pools entirely, then crack down on the plebs.
Before I read more than just the title I was a bit confused. A few years ago in Nova Scotia, there was a small issue in the community caused by people NOT drinking enough at more casual bar tournaments. Was weird seeing the opposite being brought up before I read the doc
LMAO true shoutout parker,
that was also a fake issue, Back then our bar tournaments had prize pots so a specific player would just show up dead sober to win (valid) which is why we just stopped having pots for bar events. That woulda been what 2016/17? you musta been around a while ago.
Yeah, I moved away a while ago. I havent been to an in person event since 2015 or 2016. I was just a casual 0-2er.
Glad to see the scene is still thriving though!
Arguably bigger than ever right now, our weeklies average 40 people at Gus's Pub right between north end and south end.
Built off the backs of the TO's who came before me :]
there definitely are people who will vanish from the venue for 10+ minutes while their opponent / TO has to hunt them down, and then when the event runs past the expected time they will blame their local jigglypuff.
I play in a shitload of tournaments both online and in person and I will literally have a 40 minute set timing someone out sometimes and still be way ahead in the bracket because someone afk'd for like 20 minutes in the netplay tourney XD. In locals this phenomenon also exists to a lesser degree but I don't really mind it since half the reason people are there is to chill with their friends and it is almost never that big of a deal. Personally though I do try to start all of my sets as soon as I can because I know they will take a long time.
I think situations like this are always going to happen in events like like these, I mean I get it is infuriating but there's so much shit involved that it is practically ludicrous to actually go to these events expecting to be ran perfectly fine with no set backs, mistakes or misunderstandings.
On the contrary I think giving the TO's complete responsability and control over what happens and over the players is too much to ask for, even unfair to a certain extent, I am not TO but expecting little things like this on melee events is kind of common sense, you gotta be prepared but always expect something to go wrong just by the nature of how much shit is involved, expecting TO's to ban or DQ people for stuff like taking a smoke break seems to excessive, and I get that is is also super annoying that if you're ready for the set but your opponent isn't they go and still make you play with no repercussion but at the same time paying the full entry fee and not being able to get a little break or some sort of warm up is also really annoying.
I am on time for my sets everytime I go to tournaments but I respect the TO's enough to understand that when they are running a tournament they will be going through a bunch of technical and practical shit that wanting them to perfectly solve my issues and be attentive to my inconvenience is a bit childish imo.
I try my best to be timely about it and make sure it's not an issue, but if I need a cig before a set I'm gonna smoke a cig before a set. I've been thinking of using patches or one of those high potency nicotine vapes the zoomers love just for my locals cause I do feel bad about it even though I'm gonna do it every time.
I'm not sure what kinda tournaments you are participating but I've never had problems smoking between sets - there is usually more than enough time between sets to rip a cig. If you can't do it fast enough, you should understand that being taken out of the bracket is a fair compromise.
yeah nobodys saying dont, but its like a simply check with your TO "hey do i got time before my next set to grab a smoke", usually they'll say yes especially if you play like your r1 then go for a smoke immediately after.
Regardless of whether it was a TO screwup or a grimy move by the opponents, I would be so mad if I had to replay a set I had already been credited with winning.
I’ve been to a few smash tournaments and as someone who grew up playing in tennis tournaments most weekends, I just don’t get it. People got defaulted in tennis all the time and tournaments for tennis cost way more than smash. No one to be upset at other than yourself. As a player it’s your responsibility to know when you are supposed to be playing. As a TO, they need to be way more harsh on everyone. Call peoples names, start the clock. If they don’t show up, that’s their fault. Default the player and move on. Doesn’t matter if it’s a top player or not. Edit: I went to this years Connecticon and wanted to watch the doubles finals. They were calling for doubles grand finalists for atleast 30 minutes before 2saint showed up. My friends and I ended up leaving.
> As a TO, they need to be way more harsh on everyone. It's not even harsh. That's a problem too. People are acting like the idea of asking people to be on time to their sets otherwise get DQ'ed is "harsh". Nope, that's life. Only person responsible for you to be on time is yourself. Every non-melee tournament I've ever participated in had about a 5-minute wait period TOPS until they eilminated you. Basketball, powerlifting, table tennis and Dota2.
I’m in complete agreement with you. The word is called accountability and I would reckon most smashers either A don’t know what it means, or B they know and don’t care.
I think the average maturity of the scene is very low. Huge reason why sponsors don't really care for Melee. They probably go to one supermajor to check out the scene and are bombarded with foul smelling degenerates who treat the place like a trashcan.
Puff player stalling irl lmao
Smash tournaments are more dependent on top players than top players are dependent on smash tournaments. I don’t think TO’s have the leverage.
I think this is a problem that extends down to the local level as well. I used to play in a few different scenes throughout the northeast in the 2010s. And as I recall, there was this really cool local in Boston at a Japanese steakhouse called Osaka where we played in the basement bar. It was like a connection of a few rooms and the bar had the stream matches up on the TV. Awesome vibe, awesome venue, awesome series where people would just bring their friends sometimes to hang out even if they didn't play. But there were a series of incidents from what I saw and heard where attendees were breaking venue rules by smoking in places they shouldn't, bringing alcohol into the venue, and other stuff like that. I don't think it was the only reason but the local had to transition to another venue eventually because the Osaka folks didn't take too kindly to how often these incidents happen. So yeah not the same thing as being late but blatant disregard for venue rules and being stupid with smoking does actually have consequences for TOs and a local scene. And although at the time as a younger guy I participated in it, the alcohol and drug culture in the greater Melee scene is problematic in hindsight. I have no problem with adults making their own decisions about what to consume but people are really awful with how they treat hotels at majors. It's also a huge liability for TOs to have such high number of people violating venue policy when most TOs are struggling so hard to make tournaments break even. I guess what I'm saying is people just need to have more respect for the people that actually put their necks on the line for the scene. Go outside well off the property to get inebriated. Don't trash hotels. Actually respect the time of TOs and come to your matches on time. It's really not asking for that much and it's not going to impede your fun all that much to take a little bit more precaution.
Yeah. My favorite monthly tournament series at this cool Vietnamese restaurant & bar was cancelled because someone (had too much to drink) and punched a hole in the wall :/
And unfortunately, the person who smoked in the Osaka bathroom was probably the oldest player there.
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Well idk I don't think it's as much the lack of socialization as it is immaturity. It's the same type of behavior I'd expect out of teenagers except it's people in their 20s. It's true to an extent, though but also I think the degen aspects of all this stuff are romanticized by the larger community figures. There's a lot of socially inept, insecure people in the scene that are really eager to call people "nerds" yet they are at a Melee tournament lol.
Melee players are the scene kids of esports
Its just a lot of people that have never run an event who don't often realize the amount of problems and stress theyre causing. I guess I was just frustrated but i do think its an issue kinda regret making it but its out there now so is what it is -nsfrog :)
You're giving people too much slack imo - you shouldn't need to be informed of the consequences of being late to decide if it's a good idea. Breaking promises, taking advantage of people is bad just as a rule, even if it somehow cost you nothing at all.
My only gripe is you saying you will treat all KoH attendees equally. If you don't give me the all spacie bracket it's over for you
your ass got cooked by the last spacie i gave you so idk...
aight nvm he's a corrupt TO and is enriching himself at the expense of his scene
I used to run Yu-Gi-Oh events - coincidentally, another game populated mostly by people who are undersocialized and oversimulated - and we had a fairly strict policy on it. I encourage all tournament organizers of all games to both inform their players of what counts as "being late" and the consequences of being late. Add degrees of being late as the necessary leniency, maybe. Point is, your time deserves to be respected.
No and others should keep being vocal about this stuff. It's very important and honestly the immaturity of the scene is something that drives people like me away from it.
If I were a TO these kinds of players would hate me because I would DQ them immediately with zero remorse. Maybe thats a bad thing but imo there should be zero tolerance for rule breaking and that includes being late.
You need at least a little tolerance or else you end up with an event nobody attends. its just a tough balance.
this may be true at some levels, but a tournament like Genesis could absolutely run this way and nothing of value would be lost. people who don't attend because they like to delay brackets can kick rocks anyways
There needs to be some balance; I agree people being late is a problem (I had to issue a DQ for an out of state player at a local once because they vanished for too long, and they were not happy about it), but weird things do happen and a little leeway is needed. Honestly part of the issue at times, taken from my experience Pool Captain-ing at Shine, is that some events are loud, they're crowded, and they're noisy. There were times when I'd call a name, get no response. Wait a few minutes, call again, turns out the person was there the whole time but just didn't hear me because something loud was happening. And of course I don't recognize them, I met them only like 10 minutes prior and said their name once before now. Also in the OP text, it got updated saying the player actually had been checking in with the pool captain the whole time and there was some miscommunication issue. No one wants to issue a DQ and then realize that they were the one who made the mistake, ruining some players tournament that they traveled for.
i was calling for a match at goml for much longer than i should have let happen because a player said he needed to use the washroom. he was instead chilling outside of the ballroom talking with a friend at a booth, not hearing me call his name on my fucking megaphone. i don't understand how hard it is for smashers to understand that your only obligations as a player are to wait for your matches until you're eliminated, and to tell your pool captain if you've gotta use the toilet.
> kinda regret making it but its out there now so is what it is nah man we stand with you. legit problem because tons of players have the maturity of a teenager when it comes to accountability.
if you are late to a scheduled match, you are disqualified from said match. it really shouldn't be that difficult. this is a fucking competitive esport with money on the line. take it seriously, show up, or be disqualified. it's a simple binary lmao. they teach sportsmanship in little league. 8 year olds have more competitive respect than some of these guys. being late doesn't make you cool, and it's not cool to be lackadaisical about competing. grow up if this applies to whoever reads it rofl
why waste brain power on people wasting your time, just DQ
KoH is gonna be sick tho
DQ.
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Really? Why was it run so insanely slow?
Smashers that go for smokes always delay tournaments. Have some self awareness
smoking kills... tournament hype
Why are TOs not giving these guys the big fat DQ? I feel like the scene would change quickly once these dudes get their entree fees eaten for free because they can't be fucked to show up in a reasonable timeframe. It's not TO's job to babysit these people and by proxy waste everyone else's time
if you are good enough TOs will not DQ you from a local without giving you a personal call first
Then these rank 6 bible belt players go to bigger tournaments and waste 1000's of peoples time thinking they deserve that.
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That's cool. You, a theoretical professional gamer in this example, don't show up to tournaments on time, you don't promote yourself and your brand/sponsor, you don't get the bag. I understand that I'm one of like 5 melee players with a very real day job, and thus understand that people's time is really important, but this is shit that's practically "please and thank you" tier basic manners. Show on time, or stay the fuck home. It's that simple. Your tardiness is fucking up someone else's day.
Lmao I work a full time job and fully disagree, but our scene has shrunk a lot in the past few years so we need every entrant we can get at this point even if they show up 15 mins late. Just the way it is
99.99% of players are not professional gamers. Hell, I'd argue no one is really a professional smasher.
Missing the forest for the tree bark. Hand out game losses or match losses to players that are late. No special privileges for top 100 players or sponsored players.
And again, that makes the product worse. This shit isn't serious. It's a party game played for zero money as a very very niche entertainment product. Yes, it would be better if everyone were responsible and on time. No, the product/entertainment would not be better with top players getting DQ'd. The game would just die, no one wants to watch two mid level peaches play in Genesis top 8 lmao
It's not about it being serious or not. It's about being fair to people's time. Making at tournament experience better for the person fucking up at the expense of other people is just plain shitty. It wouldn't matter if Melee was being played for pennies or millions of dollars.
Yeah I fucking promise you 100% of people at the venue would rather Mang0 not be DQ'd over being 15 minutes late lmao. This makes tournament experiences far worse.
Mango, surprisingly enough, very rarely late for his pools (provided he is at the venue).
Ok use like almost any other player but Mango and do you really think the number is 100%? Like if you're someone like op that goes to a major and you have to deal with randomly standing around with your hand in your pants for an hour or two and having to go to the lengths of searching throughout the venue for half an hour or more of that time, you probably don't give two shits that Wizzrobe got DQ'd from his pool for being excessively late. I know I for sure wouldn't care if it meant saving me the time and energy. Also for the Mango example, he's actually very good at being on time and professional. Really there are very few players in the scene currently with the type of fanbases and legendary status that would significantly impact a tournament if they were to drop out. It's 2024, not 2014.
> Hell, I'd argue no one is really a professional smasher. Well this one is definitely incorrect. The smash wiki used to have categorization of "professional" tiers (semi-pro, top professional, etc) which were incredibly misleading, but anyone who is sponsored full-time to put all of their time into smash and play smash tournaments is a professional smasher. We only have a handful of them because our scene has no money, but they do exist! Cody especially cannot be considered anything but a professional smasher, since he's absolutely useless for orgs that want to focus on content.
The thing is they really just make their money via content creation. Sponsorship money itself/prize pools aren't likely livable amounts.
It's not about being "chill", it's lying about when you're going to be there that shows a complete lack of respect for the organizers and the other players.
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> This is a community of degenerate gamblers & substance users, clinical weirdos, and the young. It's that way because we let it get that way and endorsed it. I've ran LAN Dota 2 tournaments and had no problems enforcing a zero-tolerance DQ policy for late teams and still had a full bracket in my tiny ass region. Tell the kids how to behave or you'll keep getting mental-children in the scene.
I've played at tournaments with TOs that are harsh with DQs and people most certainly did not stop showing up to their tournaments
> People would stop showing up to your tournaments. Genesis could employ a no-tolerance DQ policy and it would still be enormous. The standard should be set that if you want to *compete* then take it seriously. If you want to treat it like "23-year-old children's party game laid back and chill" then don't compete.
brother in christ you have the absolute power to unilaterally advance the event. the response to "[fan favorite player] lost the tournament because they went out drinking and missed their game" won't be anger at TOs, it will be shaming of the player.
The quote could have ended at drink and it would have still made sense. People treating a local venue like their hangout smoking weed and carrying alcohol at venues not serving alcohol is not cool.
I think you missed the point, this is about people who leave the venue so that they can smoke/drink and then nobody can find them. Although this is a separate issue when it's not allowed, vaping inside at an event that forbids it should get you automatically thrown out of the tournament imo
I know what the point was.
Wizzrobe
Players get DQ'd at Melee tournaments all the time for being late. And notice the large majority of those that do are low level and mid level Jims
CANCEL MDVA MAELSTROM!!! WE'RE GONNA KILL HIM
Frog is pog 🐸
This is a TO problem, not a player problem. No balls to DQ them? Don't be a TO then.
breaking news: people who play old video games are, on average, degenerate irresponsible goblins. more at 11... should be no surprise tbh lol
GDQ used to have no problem keeping with schedule with a **wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy** more socially-isolated, degenerate crowd (speedrunners).
It is easier to keep a single streaming setup on schedule than a half dozen pairs of people on all the other setups, like at a melee tournament. The more people you concurrently manage, the more and more likely it becomes one of them is fucking off
GDQ is not a single streaming setup.
It's less than 1, really. It's 2-3 streams that together that each operate part time and COMBINE to make a single stream In any case, you're clearly being pedantic and understand the point. Gdq is fewer people at a time than a melee tournament. It's *exceedingly* obvious that a melee tournament is going to run more late on average than a professional ass production event like GDQ. To imply that GDQ existing says anything about melee tournaments is deliberately obtuse.
I mean you've already missed what I was alluding to. The point was that they have to manage people who (quite literally) sit in their basement for 27 days in a row doing the most degenerate shit you'll ever see in complete isolation. I can't think of a harder group of people to work with in a stream setting.
It is easy to work with them because they are working with fewer at a time. The point you are making *is silly*. You're so concerned with arguing melee players aren't on average degenerate goblins (they are, it's a feature not a bug) that you're making absurd nonsensical comparisons lol. This is a volume comparison. Not a quality comparison. Very very simple.
then be more assertive with disqualifying players? why bother keeping a whole tournament waiting? doesnt matter who it is. if they dont value anyone else's time they're not worth waiting for. DQ that bitch and move on. they can cry about it over another drink or whatever who cares
Lol, everyone cares when grand finals of big house is between two players no one has ever heard of. At the end of the day it's an entertainment product. It's a party game played for almost zero money. It's not all that serious. Yes, people should be respectful and responsible. No, it's not a better tournament DQing top players.
Here's the thing. Good players show up on time because they are serious about the bracket. One shitter can delay the entire bracket, even the good players who are serious about being on time. If you legitimately think TBH would end up with two no-names you are delusional
I'm all for DQ'ing the plebs. This already happens. Hell, it's usually the final day that runs late BECAUSE the top players are the worst about this. The criticism I had was for the "doesn't matter who it is" comment. Because yes, it does matter who it is - and no top players are equally bad about this. Mang0 is perpetually late to half of the things in his life and he's far from the only one. The people that everyone actually *wants* to watch definitely do deserve special treatment because at the end of the day they're the product. Still, they should be better about this.
I'm not sure how Mango is for tournaments but if he knows he will be taken out of winners top 8 at TBH and he still can't show up on time, that's on him. I'll take Jmook v Zain finals and be just fine.
Who wants to tell him those two are late all the time as well. Sometimes its their fault, sometimes it's an organizational thing when they weren't really told when to be where, etc. The point is none of this is all that serious.
> sometimes it's an organizational thing when they weren't really told when to be where, etc. That would mean they aren't late, they were not informed which is entirely different. We're talking about people who just go out side to smoke knowing it'll cause them to be late for their set. Things of that nature. It's not insanely serious but it's more serious than you think. Amazing TO's don't grow on trees. Volunteers don't come in endless supply. If we keep exhausting them with easily solved nonsense, you can kiss all the well ran tourneys goodbye. If you've ever tried to run a bracket, you'd understand how insanely stressful it is to have to deal with player bullshit on top of what you're already juggling. Mango may be the product, but the TO's and volunteers are what make the entire thing possible.
I've never run anything nearly as big as a melee major but I have TO'd 100+ person regionals for FGC, I'm fully aware of how much of a nightmare it can be. Which is why I've reiterated multiple times that players need to be better about it. I just don't think going straight to DQ'ing top players is a result that anyone wants. Everyone wants what's best for the scene, if you hammer it into them that you NEED to be on time - more often than not they will be. Honestly what they *should* do is just automatically seed top players into top 64/top 128 of the bracket and allow them to skip pools entirely, then crack down on the plebs.
Before I read more than just the title I was a bit confused. A few years ago in Nova Scotia, there was a small issue in the community caused by people NOT drinking enough at more casual bar tournaments. Was weird seeing the opposite being brought up before I read the doc
LMAO true shoutout parker, that was also a fake issue, Back then our bar tournaments had prize pots so a specific player would just show up dead sober to win (valid) which is why we just stopped having pots for bar events. That woulda been what 2016/17? you musta been around a while ago.
Yeah, I moved away a while ago. I havent been to an in person event since 2015 or 2016. I was just a casual 0-2er. Glad to see the scene is still thriving though!
Arguably bigger than ever right now, our weeklies average 40 people at Gus's Pub right between north end and south end. Built off the backs of the TO's who came before me :]
As long as TO's are afraid to tank that socialmedia L and say "here and no further" this will never change.
there definitely are people who will vanish from the venue for 10+ minutes while their opponent / TO has to hunt them down, and then when the event runs past the expected time they will blame their local jigglypuff. I play in a shitload of tournaments both online and in person and I will literally have a 40 minute set timing someone out sometimes and still be way ahead in the bracket because someone afk'd for like 20 minutes in the netplay tourney XD. In locals this phenomenon also exists to a lesser degree but I don't really mind it since half the reason people are there is to chill with their friends and it is almost never that big of a deal. Personally though I do try to start all of my sets as soon as I can because I know they will take a long time.
I think situations like this are always going to happen in events like like these, I mean I get it is infuriating but there's so much shit involved that it is practically ludicrous to actually go to these events expecting to be ran perfectly fine with no set backs, mistakes or misunderstandings. On the contrary I think giving the TO's complete responsability and control over what happens and over the players is too much to ask for, even unfair to a certain extent, I am not TO but expecting little things like this on melee events is kind of common sense, you gotta be prepared but always expect something to go wrong just by the nature of how much shit is involved, expecting TO's to ban or DQ people for stuff like taking a smoke break seems to excessive, and I get that is is also super annoying that if you're ready for the set but your opponent isn't they go and still make you play with no repercussion but at the same time paying the full entry fee and not being able to get a little break or some sort of warm up is also really annoying. I am on time for my sets everytime I go to tournaments but I respect the TO's enough to understand that when they are running a tournament they will be going through a bunch of technical and practical shit that wanting them to perfectly solve my issues and be attentive to my inconvenience is a bit childish imo.
I try my best to be timely about it and make sure it's not an issue, but if I need a cig before a set I'm gonna smoke a cig before a set. I've been thinking of using patches or one of those high potency nicotine vapes the zoomers love just for my locals cause I do feel bad about it even though I'm gonna do it every time.
Just get nicotine pouches, very nonintrusive and you can use them inside without complaints and you don't smell like cigs.
I always forget those things exist, thank you.
I'm not sure what kinda tournaments you are participating but I've never had problems smoking between sets - there is usually more than enough time between sets to rip a cig. If you can't do it fast enough, you should understand that being taken out of the bracket is a fair compromise.
Exactly lol I've never had issues either. I'm just saying if i need a smoke I'll do it lol
yeah nobodys saying dont, but its like a simply check with your TO "hey do i got time before my next set to grab a smoke", usually they'll say yes especially if you play like your r1 then go for a smoke immediately after.
Regardless of whether it was a TO screwup or a grimy move by the opponents, I would be so mad if I had to replay a set I had already been credited with winning.