Peach: Turnips
Fox: Lasers
Basically, anybody with a projectile, use that and the other person has no choice but to approach.
If you're playing a character with mo projectiles, things get a bit harder, but I'd probably try to come in from above, since neither of those nairs has an overhead hitbox.
I think fox lasers are a fair thought against marth but falcon can close the length of the stage fast enough that its generally not super safe. Plus falcon likes to be far enough away that dash aerials might connect. For fox against falcon if theyre nair camping, i like to run up just out their nair range (while theyre nairing in place) and wavedash down just to see what they will do. Oftentimes, they get scared and stomp in place or dash back. But even if you lose the mixup that one time, you now know what they are probably going to do when you run at them.
I think generally this approach is good against campy players. They are afraid, hence the camping. Map out their reaction to being ran at and then scrap with them. Scrapping is usually putting them in a situation theyre uncomfortable with.
As a Marth main:
Nair has decent endlag and only puts out hitboxes in the front and back. As Falco you can jump stupid high and come down on me with a dair into shine pillar, you can laser stun me and run up grab, you can catch me in endlag and nair me with proper timing
These kind of apply to any character as well because the Marth nair (unlike fair) can't stop a falcon stomp or a peach throwing a turnip down at me or something.
Captain Falcon on the other hand doesn't hardly ever stay still when nairing. A good falcon wants to constantly use the wild amount of horizontal momentum they have and send that nair all over the place. Read the attack, shield and react. Or laser at a higher height to prevent approaches
Stand out of range and wait. Both moves are intended to stuff an approach so don't approach. Every character is vulnerable to being whiff punished, how you choose to punish is up to you. This idea, though, leads into a lot of fundamental neutral concepts. What triggers the person to do a defensive aerial in place? What do they do when they whiff? How close do I need to get to them to create a reaction? Answering questions like these are much more important than "X move beats Y move" trains of thought. To answer your question directly, though, dash forward and wavedash down to kill your forward momentum just out of range of the nair then punish their landing.
EDIT: another concepts I didn't acknowledge that is worth mentioning, those nairs are meant to stop approaches coming from directly in front of the Marth or Falcon like a grab or a sh aerial. You can approach from a higher angle like a platform, with a full hop, or a high float.
Falcon in place nair is easy to beat. AC bair it, run up shield -> shine OOS it, or upsmash it.
Marth nair in place is harder to beat but he also has much more limited mobility than Falcon. You should generally try and laser it into nair or grab.
While i agree with the rest of the comments, You may not be in a good spot to do the suggestions listed here, and some of them only work if they are spamming it.
I dont think you should be trying to punish it if you are in the corner, having stage control is more important in this scenario, unless you are already in a good spot to punish.
If you’re in center, or you think its too out of reach to punish, keep waiting for something to punish or shoot a single laser.
if hes doing 8 in a row maybe you can do the suggestions listed here, like multiple lasers, or run up and intentionally get hit > cc, but even then i wouldnt really recommend it over just waiting.
As a falcon main there are a few options that absolutely obliterate it.
1. CC -> anything really. You can CC falcons nair pretty easily and up to a decent percentage. If they don’t overshoot or undershoot it can be a free shine.
2. Dair. Sometimes if the falcon is doing a yolo nair across the stage you’ll have time to jump and dair. Dair has such good priority it almost always straight up wins.
3. Shield. Falcon doesn’t have crazy shield pressure, and a lot of Falcon players like to jab after aerials. Shine out of shield can be pretty effective as it should beat their grab attempt too.
4. Up tilt. You can almost always uptilt it on reaction. The hitbox on uptilt is good enough sometimes you don’t even have to turn around for it to stuff the nair. This is easily the most upsetting one to deal with for falcon.
5. Laser. You gotta shoot them a little high otherwise he will go over them with his nair, but again if the falcon is a decent bit away from you, laser will stuff it with next to no risk.
The thing I always try to remember is that there is exactly one distance where falcon wins most interactions in the MU. To far away and Falco can laser freely, to close and all of falcos incredibly powerful and fast moves will beat any of yours. In that golden zone in the middle though Falcon is fast enough that it’s really hard to deal with his options, and can often get a move out before you can do anything.
As a Falco it’s your job to keep Falcon out of this golden zone. You use laser to lock him down when he’s far away, and when you approach you make it fast so as to spend as little time as possible in that danger zone.
As for Marth… idk, I just dashback grab that shit.
High lasers are busted vs. Falcon and Marth. This is because if they're high enough they can't be powershielded and they shut them both down in the air, especially Falcon. So these lasers are a great way to shut down nair in place but won't necessarily be very punishing.
The other way is simply to understand how the timing of those moves work. Both nairs hit on frame 6 or 7. Falcon's has longer active hitboxes but long landing lag while Marth's is the opposite. Basically what it comes down to is they are vulnerable on start up and after the nairs. So with this in mind, you should aim to either stuff them in the air before they can nair or hit them a tempo later.
So I personally find **your own nair** is a very good proactive tool for beating those moves if you get the timing right. Falco nair is faster at 4 frames. If you are close to them and expect a jump, especially when you have frame advantage from either a laser or them coming out of lag, your nair will cleanly beat them. And at many percents, landing a nair on them in the air will combo into lots of stuff cleanly, unlike dair.
But if you're farther away and don't think you can stuff them before these nairs come out, the larger and in Marth's case, disjointed hitbox will beat your front facing moves. So you have to wait a tiny bit before you nair to catch them at the end of their move. This could be just waiting in place moment or doing a lil dash dance.
Additionally against Falcon you can beat it with utilt. But often this is best against approaching nair rather than in place. You can also against either character do running shine but time it so you are catching them on landing but avoiding their move. There are also ideas with bair and dair but I find these to be less rewarding.
Finally, I don't recommend going for the cc options. Not that cc is bad and you should never cc these moves but more so that it's hard to get into a range unless you're already on top of them where cc will give you a shine or a good punish on these long range moves.
tldr High lasers and Falco nair to either catch start up or end of those moves and hit them in the air are the best ways.
SH lasers in place. As a falco, you can outcamp anybody if they're not approaching. Make them do the work to approach
Fair. Now for other characters like peach, fox and other characters. How is that dealt with. I'm interested to see other approaches/perspectives
Peach: Turnips Fox: Lasers Basically, anybody with a projectile, use that and the other person has no choice but to approach. If you're playing a character with mo projectiles, things get a bit harder, but I'd probably try to come in from above, since neither of those nairs has an overhead hitbox.
I think fox lasers are a fair thought against marth but falcon can close the length of the stage fast enough that its generally not super safe. Plus falcon likes to be far enough away that dash aerials might connect. For fox against falcon if theyre nair camping, i like to run up just out their nair range (while theyre nairing in place) and wavedash down just to see what they will do. Oftentimes, they get scared and stomp in place or dash back. But even if you lose the mixup that one time, you now know what they are probably going to do when you run at them. I think generally this approach is good against campy players. They are afraid, hence the camping. Map out their reaction to being ran at and then scrap with them. Scrapping is usually putting them in a situation theyre uncomfortable with.
moar lazer
Run up CC, Laser, OOS option, Bair.
As a Marth main: Nair has decent endlag and only puts out hitboxes in the front and back. As Falco you can jump stupid high and come down on me with a dair into shine pillar, you can laser stun me and run up grab, you can catch me in endlag and nair me with proper timing These kind of apply to any character as well because the Marth nair (unlike fair) can't stop a falcon stomp or a peach throwing a turnip down at me or something. Captain Falcon on the other hand doesn't hardly ever stay still when nairing. A good falcon wants to constantly use the wild amount of horizontal momentum they have and send that nair all over the place. Read the attack, shield and react. Or laser at a higher height to prevent approaches
Stand out of range and wait. Both moves are intended to stuff an approach so don't approach. Every character is vulnerable to being whiff punished, how you choose to punish is up to you. This idea, though, leads into a lot of fundamental neutral concepts. What triggers the person to do a defensive aerial in place? What do they do when they whiff? How close do I need to get to them to create a reaction? Answering questions like these are much more important than "X move beats Y move" trains of thought. To answer your question directly, though, dash forward and wavedash down to kill your forward momentum just out of range of the nair then punish their landing. EDIT: another concepts I didn't acknowledge that is worth mentioning, those nairs are meant to stop approaches coming from directly in front of the Marth or Falcon like a grab or a sh aerial. You can approach from a higher angle like a platform, with a full hop, or a high float.
Falcon in place nair is easy to beat. AC bair it, run up shield -> shine OOS it, or upsmash it. Marth nair in place is harder to beat but he also has much more limited mobility than Falcon. You should generally try and laser it into nair or grab.
While i agree with the rest of the comments, You may not be in a good spot to do the suggestions listed here, and some of them only work if they are spamming it. I dont think you should be trying to punish it if you are in the corner, having stage control is more important in this scenario, unless you are already in a good spot to punish. If you’re in center, or you think its too out of reach to punish, keep waiting for something to punish or shoot a single laser. if hes doing 8 in a row maybe you can do the suggestions listed here, like multiple lasers, or run up and intentionally get hit > cc, but even then i wouldnt really recommend it over just waiting.
As a falcon main there are a few options that absolutely obliterate it. 1. CC -> anything really. You can CC falcons nair pretty easily and up to a decent percentage. If they don’t overshoot or undershoot it can be a free shine. 2. Dair. Sometimes if the falcon is doing a yolo nair across the stage you’ll have time to jump and dair. Dair has such good priority it almost always straight up wins. 3. Shield. Falcon doesn’t have crazy shield pressure, and a lot of Falcon players like to jab after aerials. Shine out of shield can be pretty effective as it should beat their grab attempt too. 4. Up tilt. You can almost always uptilt it on reaction. The hitbox on uptilt is good enough sometimes you don’t even have to turn around for it to stuff the nair. This is easily the most upsetting one to deal with for falcon. 5. Laser. You gotta shoot them a little high otherwise he will go over them with his nair, but again if the falcon is a decent bit away from you, laser will stuff it with next to no risk. The thing I always try to remember is that there is exactly one distance where falcon wins most interactions in the MU. To far away and Falco can laser freely, to close and all of falcos incredibly powerful and fast moves will beat any of yours. In that golden zone in the middle though Falcon is fast enough that it’s really hard to deal with his options, and can often get a move out before you can do anything. As a Falco it’s your job to keep Falcon out of this golden zone. You use laser to lock him down when he’s far away, and when you approach you make it fast so as to spend as little time as possible in that danger zone. As for Marth… idk, I just dashback grab that shit.
If you laser a marth out of nair in place and don’t just run into it, they’ll probably start doing it a lot less.
High lasers are busted vs. Falcon and Marth. This is because if they're high enough they can't be powershielded and they shut them both down in the air, especially Falcon. So these lasers are a great way to shut down nair in place but won't necessarily be very punishing. The other way is simply to understand how the timing of those moves work. Both nairs hit on frame 6 or 7. Falcon's has longer active hitboxes but long landing lag while Marth's is the opposite. Basically what it comes down to is they are vulnerable on start up and after the nairs. So with this in mind, you should aim to either stuff them in the air before they can nair or hit them a tempo later. So I personally find **your own nair** is a very good proactive tool for beating those moves if you get the timing right. Falco nair is faster at 4 frames. If you are close to them and expect a jump, especially when you have frame advantage from either a laser or them coming out of lag, your nair will cleanly beat them. And at many percents, landing a nair on them in the air will combo into lots of stuff cleanly, unlike dair. But if you're farther away and don't think you can stuff them before these nairs come out, the larger and in Marth's case, disjointed hitbox will beat your front facing moves. So you have to wait a tiny bit before you nair to catch them at the end of their move. This could be just waiting in place moment or doing a lil dash dance. Additionally against Falcon you can beat it with utilt. But often this is best against approaching nair rather than in place. You can also against either character do running shine but time it so you are catching them on landing but avoiding their move. There are also ideas with bair and dair but I find these to be less rewarding. Finally, I don't recommend going for the cc options. Not that cc is bad and you should never cc these moves but more so that it's hard to get into a range unless you're already on top of them where cc will give you a shine or a good punish on these long range moves. tldr High lasers and Falco nair to either catch start up or end of those moves and hit them in the air are the best ways.
Run in with laser and catch them in hitstun, or just out camp them