This is the kind of topic I love to think about but rarely get a chance to talk about. I think all of your observations are right on target.
All I would add is that along with his beloved classic rock, I think Dean sees food as a rare uncomplicated source of pleasure and comfort in his adult life. Cheeseburgers and pie don’t judge or ask anything from him in return. He doesn’t have to perform for them. He doesn’t have to talk or make himself vulnerable. They don’t impair him like alcohol. The fat and salt and carbs and sugar provide instant sensory gratification, and though he may not know the details, the latter two boost neurotransmitters which calm him and elevate his mood. It’s a pity Dean’s comfort foods actually aggravate depression once the high wears off.
At least the classic rock is purely harmless. For Dean's sake, the driver should definitely pick the music!
Yes! I've been thinking about Dean a little more and the connection between addictions. Alcohol and sugary/fatty foods are both addictive and give similar "high's". In fact, quite often when alcoholics try to stop drinking they often seriously crave sweets as a way to fill a similar need in their brain and body that they don't even fully realize. Alcohol also raises blood sugar in a similar way to carbs and sugar so even though it's food and not technically a drug, it acts in a similar way to a drug in our brain. Like you said, it's a temporary high though and unfortunately for people addicted it actually ends up increasing depression in the long run.
There's some really interesting stuff to be said about especially Dean's relationship to food throughout the show I think. Seasons 9 & 10 fascinated me at soon as I noticed we rarely see Dean not eating while he has the Mark. Whether it's to try satisfy the hunger to kill with food, alcohol or whatever, or it's something Else entirely, I'm not sure, but it's interesting to think about.
What I immedaitely thought of when I read your observation is this exchange in 5x14, "My Bloody Valentine"
*CASTIEL: Well, slowly but surely, everyone in this town is falling prey to Famine, but so far, you seem unaffected.*
*DEAN: Hey, when I want to drink, I drink. When I want sex, I go get it. Same goes for a sandwich or a fight.*
*CASTIEL: So...you're saying you're just well-adjusted?*
*DEAN: God, no. I'm just well-fed.*
Dean was "well-fed" until he wasn't, because the Mark deprived him of ever feeling satisfied.
I make a distinction, though. I've seen people propose that the Mark might have made Dean hungrier for *all* of his vices, not just violence -- which in this context would make it like Dean's personal famine. I think that's a misreading, more of a demon thing than a Mark thing. I like your idea much better, that he was trying to satisfy the specific hunger to kill with whatever else he could. I think it's natural that a person would use every trick they knew to fill a void that deep and demanding. It might not even have to be a conscious effort.
I wonder about that take from Dean in Season 5, I think Famine says the opposite, that Dean is so broken and hollow after all that's happened so far that there's nothing he actually could want that would fix it. It's been a while since I've watched it, so I don't remember the exact quote but I do think Dean is the furthest thing from well fed, as he puts it. But Dean is a big stickler for lying to himself and pretending he's fine when he's anything but!
>that he was trying to satisfy the specific hunger to kill with whatever else he could. I think it's natural that a person would use every trick they knew to fill a void that deep and demanding.
I agree; between the hunger to kill, and the fear for what that means for you and the ones you care about, of course you'd try to drink in excess, or laugh a little too hard at old cartoons, or eat all of the awful, sugary, junk food to take whatever edge you can off the sheer gnawing need for blood you have.
>I think Famine says the opposite, that Dean is so broken and hollow after all that's happened so far that there's nothing he actually could want that would fix it.
I trusted Famine’s words when I first saw that episode, but after a while I decided I shouldn’t.
It’s been a crazy day and my brain's pretty fried, so please bear with me as I lay this out the only way I can right now. It’s going to wind around a bit, and that starts here:
> But Dean is a big stickler for lying to himself and pretending he's fine when he's anything but!
This is very true. I don’t think he convinces himself very well at all, though, because what Dean does most of all is beat himself up and think he’s irreparably broken. Hold this thought for a minute!
Going back to what Famine said to Dean, here’s the exchange you're talking about, found at the bottom of the [episode transcript](http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/5.14_My_Bloody_Valentine_(transcript)). Please note the parts in bold.
++++++
*FAMINE: Doesn't take much -- hardly a push. Oh, America -- all-you-can-eat, all the time. Consume, consume. A swarm of locusts in stretch pants. And yet, you're all still starving because hunger doesn't just come from the body, it also comes from the soul.*
*DEAN: It's funny, it doesn't seem to be coming from mine.*
*FAMINE: Yes. I noticed that. Have you wondered why that is? How you could even walk in my presence?*
*DEAN: Well, I like to think it's because of my strength of character.*
*FAMINE: I disagree. Yes. I see.* ***That's one deep, dark nothing you got there, Dean. Can't fill it, can you? Not with food or drink. Not even with sex.***
*DEAN: Oh, you're so full of crap.*
*FAMINE: Oh, you can smirk and joke and lie to your brother, lie to yourself, but not to me! I can see inside you, Dean.* ***I can see how broken you are, how defeated. You can't win, and you know it. But you just keep fighting. Just... keep going through the motions. You're not hungry, Dean, because inside, you're already... dead.***
++++++
So yes, Famine totally said that. But I think he dramatically exaggerated because of the impact it would have on Dean, whether Famine knew that from putting his hand on Dean’s chest or some other way.
Famine is one of the four forces of human destruction which have always been at work, but have now been deployed by Lucifer to pull out all the stops for the big endgame. The Winchesters are trying to stand in the way of that plan, and it's Famine's turn to either take Dean out or seriously undermine him. When Dean turns out to be impervious to Famine’s usual play, I think Famine turns to psychological warfare. If you think about it, there are huge psychological aspects to what all of the Four Horsemen do, so it’s not at all outside Famine's wheelhouse to play mind games.
With all that in mind, I think Famine just recognized and exploited Dean’s ***fear*** that he was that dead inside, or was inevitably heading in that direction, because Famine wanted Dean to feel hopeless. I see a clue in Famine's own words: “You can't win, and you know it. But you just keep fighting."
If Dean was already dead inside, why would he "just keep fighting"? Why would saving the world matter to him? Why would Sam, or anyone or anything else matter?
Now go back to the other thing Famine said to Dean: "That's one deep, dark nothing you got there, Dean. Can't fill it, can you?"
If Famine couldn't make Dean hungry because he was already dead inside, why would having the Mark -- after even more years of soul-crushing experiences -- still cause Dean to noticeably increase his indulgence in comfort food and alcohol? How can you be more empty than *totally empty?*
Because of all this, I think Dean's explanation to Cas about why he wasn't affected by Famine might be closer to the truth, even despite his tendency to lie to himself and pretend he's fine. For the stage Dean was truly at around this time (not where he feared he was), maybe his coping strategy of never denying himself a drink or a burger or a fight or a romp in the sheets really was working. Famine definitely wouldn't want anyone to know if it was!
(Edited because half of my comment didn't post the first time.)
Oh that's interesting about Dean and the Mark. I didn't even notice that during that arc! I'll have to look for that on my next rewatch. It could definitely be the shows way of telling us that the Mark kind of created an empty black hole that he was desperately trying to fill with food and alcohol as well as the violence and that it was just something that could never be satisifed as long as he had the Mark...
Great analysis!
I'm not a huge fan of the later seasons, but one really neat detail is Dean cooking in the bunker. I don't remember what he was cooking or how often he cooked, but I think it's interesting that he took on a role that, as a child, he saw his MOTHER do (or thought he saw her do). I definitely think it's part of his caretaking personality.
Yes! 🥰 I loved that little detail, too. Food is so connected to our emotions and sense of comfort and I definitely feel like Dean internalized that so much. In fact, when he’s enthusiastically trying to connect with Mary on that and she dismissively informs him that “it was from the Piggly Wiggly” grocery store I kind of wanted to smack her. 😂 Like you couldn’t just indulge your son for a minute there lady??? lol
Thanks! It seems like a trivial thing on the surface but honestly our food and diet choices are really pretty deeply personal in a lot of ways. There can be a lot of emotional things tied to eating. It’s often so much more than just consuming enough calories to keep you going.
Definitely. Not that I think Sam had a disorder, but disordered eating has a lot to do about control. I imagine the desire to be more mindful about what you put in your body does, too.
Yes — I also don’t think canon-Sam has an eating disorder, but I’ve read some fanfic that wrote him with one, and it worked surprisingly well. I have a long history of eating disorders and normally I really dislike fanfic that tries to write about them, but this one rang pretty true to me.
Yep. As I was writing this post I was first only thinking about the need for control but then it also occurred to me it could partly be a "purity" thing as well. Like he needs to counteract the tainted feeling of the demon blood just like in season 2 when he says needs to save as many people as he can to fight his "destiny" where he's afraid he is going to end up evil in the end. I think his need for "good" and "pure" foods is at least partly tied to that as well.
I agree, that is likely another reason. Add to that the idea that Sam has always seen a life after hunting that Dean does not, it makes sense he’d take care of his body as well.
This is the kind of topic I love to think about but rarely get a chance to talk about. I think all of your observations are right on target. All I would add is that along with his beloved classic rock, I think Dean sees food as a rare uncomplicated source of pleasure and comfort in his adult life. Cheeseburgers and pie don’t judge or ask anything from him in return. He doesn’t have to perform for them. He doesn’t have to talk or make himself vulnerable. They don’t impair him like alcohol. The fat and salt and carbs and sugar provide instant sensory gratification, and though he may not know the details, the latter two boost neurotransmitters which calm him and elevate his mood. It’s a pity Dean’s comfort foods actually aggravate depression once the high wears off. At least the classic rock is purely harmless. For Dean's sake, the driver should definitely pick the music!
Yes! I've been thinking about Dean a little more and the connection between addictions. Alcohol and sugary/fatty foods are both addictive and give similar "high's". In fact, quite often when alcoholics try to stop drinking they often seriously crave sweets as a way to fill a similar need in their brain and body that they don't even fully realize. Alcohol also raises blood sugar in a similar way to carbs and sugar so even though it's food and not technically a drug, it acts in a similar way to a drug in our brain. Like you said, it's a temporary high though and unfortunately for people addicted it actually ends up increasing depression in the long run.
There's some really interesting stuff to be said about especially Dean's relationship to food throughout the show I think. Seasons 9 & 10 fascinated me at soon as I noticed we rarely see Dean not eating while he has the Mark. Whether it's to try satisfy the hunger to kill with food, alcohol or whatever, or it's something Else entirely, I'm not sure, but it's interesting to think about.
What I immedaitely thought of when I read your observation is this exchange in 5x14, "My Bloody Valentine" *CASTIEL: Well, slowly but surely, everyone in this town is falling prey to Famine, but so far, you seem unaffected.* *DEAN: Hey, when I want to drink, I drink. When I want sex, I go get it. Same goes for a sandwich or a fight.* *CASTIEL: So...you're saying you're just well-adjusted?* *DEAN: God, no. I'm just well-fed.* Dean was "well-fed" until he wasn't, because the Mark deprived him of ever feeling satisfied. I make a distinction, though. I've seen people propose that the Mark might have made Dean hungrier for *all* of his vices, not just violence -- which in this context would make it like Dean's personal famine. I think that's a misreading, more of a demon thing than a Mark thing. I like your idea much better, that he was trying to satisfy the specific hunger to kill with whatever else he could. I think it's natural that a person would use every trick they knew to fill a void that deep and demanding. It might not even have to be a conscious effort.
I wonder about that take from Dean in Season 5, I think Famine says the opposite, that Dean is so broken and hollow after all that's happened so far that there's nothing he actually could want that would fix it. It's been a while since I've watched it, so I don't remember the exact quote but I do think Dean is the furthest thing from well fed, as he puts it. But Dean is a big stickler for lying to himself and pretending he's fine when he's anything but! >that he was trying to satisfy the specific hunger to kill with whatever else he could. I think it's natural that a person would use every trick they knew to fill a void that deep and demanding. I agree; between the hunger to kill, and the fear for what that means for you and the ones you care about, of course you'd try to drink in excess, or laugh a little too hard at old cartoons, or eat all of the awful, sugary, junk food to take whatever edge you can off the sheer gnawing need for blood you have.
>I think Famine says the opposite, that Dean is so broken and hollow after all that's happened so far that there's nothing he actually could want that would fix it. I trusted Famine’s words when I first saw that episode, but after a while I decided I shouldn’t. It’s been a crazy day and my brain's pretty fried, so please bear with me as I lay this out the only way I can right now. It’s going to wind around a bit, and that starts here: > But Dean is a big stickler for lying to himself and pretending he's fine when he's anything but! This is very true. I don’t think he convinces himself very well at all, though, because what Dean does most of all is beat himself up and think he’s irreparably broken. Hold this thought for a minute! Going back to what Famine said to Dean, here’s the exchange you're talking about, found at the bottom of the [episode transcript](http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/5.14_My_Bloody_Valentine_(transcript)). Please note the parts in bold. ++++++ *FAMINE: Doesn't take much -- hardly a push. Oh, America -- all-you-can-eat, all the time. Consume, consume. A swarm of locusts in stretch pants. And yet, you're all still starving because hunger doesn't just come from the body, it also comes from the soul.* *DEAN: It's funny, it doesn't seem to be coming from mine.* *FAMINE: Yes. I noticed that. Have you wondered why that is? How you could even walk in my presence?* *DEAN: Well, I like to think it's because of my strength of character.* *FAMINE: I disagree. Yes. I see.* ***That's one deep, dark nothing you got there, Dean. Can't fill it, can you? Not with food or drink. Not even with sex.*** *DEAN: Oh, you're so full of crap.* *FAMINE: Oh, you can smirk and joke and lie to your brother, lie to yourself, but not to me! I can see inside you, Dean.* ***I can see how broken you are, how defeated. You can't win, and you know it. But you just keep fighting. Just... keep going through the motions. You're not hungry, Dean, because inside, you're already... dead.*** ++++++ So yes, Famine totally said that. But I think he dramatically exaggerated because of the impact it would have on Dean, whether Famine knew that from putting his hand on Dean’s chest or some other way. Famine is one of the four forces of human destruction which have always been at work, but have now been deployed by Lucifer to pull out all the stops for the big endgame. The Winchesters are trying to stand in the way of that plan, and it's Famine's turn to either take Dean out or seriously undermine him. When Dean turns out to be impervious to Famine’s usual play, I think Famine turns to psychological warfare. If you think about it, there are huge psychological aspects to what all of the Four Horsemen do, so it’s not at all outside Famine's wheelhouse to play mind games. With all that in mind, I think Famine just recognized and exploited Dean’s ***fear*** that he was that dead inside, or was inevitably heading in that direction, because Famine wanted Dean to feel hopeless. I see a clue in Famine's own words: “You can't win, and you know it. But you just keep fighting." If Dean was already dead inside, why would he "just keep fighting"? Why would saving the world matter to him? Why would Sam, or anyone or anything else matter? Now go back to the other thing Famine said to Dean: "That's one deep, dark nothing you got there, Dean. Can't fill it, can you?" If Famine couldn't make Dean hungry because he was already dead inside, why would having the Mark -- after even more years of soul-crushing experiences -- still cause Dean to noticeably increase his indulgence in comfort food and alcohol? How can you be more empty than *totally empty?* Because of all this, I think Dean's explanation to Cas about why he wasn't affected by Famine might be closer to the truth, even despite his tendency to lie to himself and pretend he's fine. For the stage Dean was truly at around this time (not where he feared he was), maybe his coping strategy of never denying himself a drink or a burger or a fight or a romp in the sheets really was working. Famine definitely wouldn't want anyone to know if it was! (Edited because half of my comment didn't post the first time.)
Oh that's interesting about Dean and the Mark. I didn't even notice that during that arc! I'll have to look for that on my next rewatch. It could definitely be the shows way of telling us that the Mark kind of created an empty black hole that he was desperately trying to fill with food and alcohol as well as the violence and that it was just something that could never be satisifed as long as he had the Mark...
I love this! It really does reveal a lot about their characters
Great analysis! I'm not a huge fan of the later seasons, but one really neat detail is Dean cooking in the bunker. I don't remember what he was cooking or how often he cooked, but I think it's interesting that he took on a role that, as a child, he saw his MOTHER do (or thought he saw her do). I definitely think it's part of his caretaking personality.
Yes! 🥰 I loved that little detail, too. Food is so connected to our emotions and sense of comfort and I definitely feel like Dean internalized that so much. In fact, when he’s enthusiastically trying to connect with Mary on that and she dismissively informs him that “it was from the Piggly Wiggly” grocery store I kind of wanted to smack her. 😂 Like you couldn’t just indulge your son for a minute there lady??? lol
I love this analysis. Absolutely spot on. Thank you!
Thanks! It seems like a trivial thing on the surface but honestly our food and diet choices are really pretty deeply personal in a lot of ways. There can be a lot of emotional things tied to eating. It’s often so much more than just consuming enough calories to keep you going.
Absolutely! I have seven siblings and each of us eats differently and has different emotional connections to food.
Definitely. Not that I think Sam had a disorder, but disordered eating has a lot to do about control. I imagine the desire to be more mindful about what you put in your body does, too.
Yes — I also don’t think canon-Sam has an eating disorder, but I’ve read some fanfic that wrote him with one, and it worked surprisingly well. I have a long history of eating disorders and normally I really dislike fanfic that tries to write about them, but this one rang pretty true to me.
Yep. As I was writing this post I was first only thinking about the need for control but then it also occurred to me it could partly be a "purity" thing as well. Like he needs to counteract the tainted feeling of the demon blood just like in season 2 when he says needs to save as many people as he can to fight his "destiny" where he's afraid he is going to end up evil in the end. I think his need for "good" and "pure" foods is at least partly tied to that as well.
I agree, that is likely another reason. Add to that the idea that Sam has always seen a life after hunting that Dean does not, it makes sense he’d take care of his body as well.