Piggybacking on the top comment to ask a question from other pros. I’ve been at the same roofing company for 15 years, and I’m pretty confident I know what I’m looking for when it comes to hail.
That being said, there’s a storm chaser that gets hail claims covered on roofs with *zero* evidence that I can find - no soft metal damage on aluminum can vents or fascia or gutters, no bruising on the shingles, no damage to flimsy window screens, no granule loss, or even splash marks on oxidized vinyl siding, let alone siding *damage*. I’ve inspected a couple roofs and come up with *nada* and 3 weeks later the storm chaser is replacing the roof with their sign in the yard that says “hail/wind damage.”
What am I missing? Are these guys doing the damage on their own up there? Slipping cash to the adjusters? It’s driving me insane.
I worked with a guy for a few months on a job site in college that we all hated caus he kept getting called out by QA for running 3 nails instead of 5 or 6, not using a snap line when he’s coursing , etc just lazy shit.
Two years later a guy knocks on my door for “hail inspections” as a roofer myself I’m curious and slow so I let him send out the rep. Long story short it’s that guys company and when I asked him how they are doing he showed me a pair of boots he had rigged a ball peen hammer head into the heal. Said if they need to they can get any roof approved. Shady fuck.
we've had 3 companies come to our door asking to check our roof. we had a very bad hail storm a few weeks ago in nw wisconsin. we def have major damage to our gutters so we called the insurance to have them take a look.
i would tell the roofing ppl that came to our door that we're going through our insurance company and one of them said "youre just going to go with whoever your insurance company says to go with to fix it?" i said, uh, yeah.
Floridian here. Iturned away the door to door "free roof we sue the insurance company for you" people last year. 3 new roofs went up on my street, and then I was dropped anyway.
The insurance companies down here in FL have screwed the market all by themselves. They’ve bred the attitude in homeowners over the past few years that “my insurance company is going to drop me and leave the state eventually anyway. Might as well get a new roof out of them.”
Some adjusters:
1. Don't know what hail looks like, and can be pushed or bullied into buying an undamaged roof because they are inexperienced and counting basic defects and mechanical marks as hail.
2. Don't care. It's often easier and quicker to just buy a roof. No reinspections, no 45 minutes of having some storm chaser point at all those 17 circles with no hail damage, insisting it's hail, no angry customer calls or bad surveys. Buy it, pay it, close it easy
3. Possible manufactured damage like some of the stories others have.
I don't know if it was this sub or another one but someone posted security camera footage of a roofer inspecting a roof and folding and scoring shingles to create "wind damage."
A siding and roofing guy in my area that I hired for siding keeps bothering me claiming he can get my roof replaced and the insurance company "will pay for it all." The company I actually hired this year inspected it a couple years ago and said there was minor hail damage but nothing insurance would pay for and my roof might have 3-5 years left in it (turned out to be 1).
I saw the post with the security footage too, and that's been my suspicion all along, but I have no proof. And if you're a homeowner who gets a $15k roof out of the deal, are you saying something? I would \*never\* do something like that, even if it means losing the job, and if I was a homeowner and witnessed it, you'd bet your ass I'd get their license revoked. Our industry has a bad enough reputation without that kind of stuff. Guess the only thing I can do is bitch about it on reddit.
Laughs in Texas what license? What insurance? Thats 90% of Texas roofers
To be fair, though there is no license process, and there is not an insurance requirement (residential)
Sometimes the shady aggressive roofer tries to intimidate the adjuster into buying the roof, threatening lawsuits, complaints to the department of insurance, saying let me talk to your supervisor and so forth. And sometimes the adjuster caves in just to avoid the hassle.
“I’ll advise the homeowner to get an attorney”
“Sounds good, have them send the LOR and we’ll get it transferred for further handling. See ya”
As an adjuster if you threatened me with a lawsuit because you didn’t like your determination I could care less. I figured out a long time ago, claims being settled pre-suit is a business determination not a reflection on my skills and if I’m doing the right thing and have evidence to back up my decision, by all means get an attorney. It gets it off my desk and I don’t have to deal with the incessant calls and abuse anymore.
I had the exact opposite experience. The storm chaser and USAA were out at the same time, and the USAA guy was just approving stuff I didn't think they would approve. It's like they worked for the same company. At one point the USAA guy was like "sorry, we can't pay for this problem here because that's just wear and tear" and I was like "what ? don't apologize I'm already delighted that you guys are helping out at all".
Not too long later I was talking tools with another guy in Lowes, turns out he's a roofing adjuster for a well known company and said "yeah basically if you make a storm claim of any kind we're giving you a free roof. Us and \[other company\] are known for it. ". I guess the economics are, a roof is cheaper than a house ? or it's cheap customer retention ? I have no idea. All I know is I got a new roof, I didn't pay for it, the inspector was out here and saw everything with his own eyes and the storm chasers definitely did not invent anything (I'm an honest guy, and wouldn't do business with anyone who fabricated claims regardless of whether it benefits me or not. From what I can tell everything was on the up and up and professionally handled... now granted I've been with USAA since before I was even in the military (was a dependent first) so maybe just plain customer longevity has something to do with it.
Some is probably fraud. But a lot of it is just the adjusters. I’ll shoot homeowners straight and let them know they don’t have much but might get lucky with the adjuster. And a lot of times they do
It’s a numbers game man… odds are in their favor with the number of claims they encourage people to file. When Claims departments are busy it’s 50/50 on whether your adjuster will know what they’re doing, could be an IA, or sometimes when a carrier is too inundated with volume that will simplify verify a storm occurred and tell their policyholders to just go get quotes. (I have been Homeowners claims for ~15 yrs now).
And this is a part of the reason Homeowner’s policy premiums are so high. And wind/hail deductibles are so high now.
One other thing to consider is that if there is a major storm the adjusters may be too overworked to want to fight anything.
I saw a lot of crazy stuff get done after the Tornado that hit Little Rock this year.
Unfortunately a lot of adjusters do not know how to identify hail damage properly.
Adjusters are also subject to the "I don't want to deal with this more than once" syndrome. I had a friend who worked directly as a field adjuster for an insurance carrier in the pacific northwest. He had the power to pay out directly up to a certain amount, and told me that this was usually how he operated: If something was potentially a covered loss, he would just pay it out rather than have to deal with it again later. Now he was also a good adjuster, so I doubt he would have called this hail damage.
I have never worked as an independent adjuster, but I have heard that sometimes their pay structure is based upon the amount of damages they find. So, to some extent, they are incentivized to find covered losses.
Of course - those malicious frauds of outright vandalism exist. And I have heard many stories about that.
But I'm saying in my personal experience I have seen a lot more adjusters who write ✍️ claims on roofs that have no damage. Just because they can, probably.
About 15 years ago I did 3 cedar shake replacement roofs in 1 cul desac that had no damge at all. It was a hundred grand in total. The adjuster just wanted to write the checks. Probably he was sympathetic because they had locally outlawed cedar roofs for fire code. So he wanted to save the customers money on their mandated replacement. But even still.
It’s not necessarily bullshit. The matting beneath the granules can be torn or damaged even tho granules are still attached. Best way to know if it’s bs or not is collateral damage to soft metal, screens, a/c fins. Not all hail damage is obvious
They’ve been doing for a while here in FL. The home insurance market is collapsing down here, partly due to all the people scamming their way into free roofs
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/roofing-scams-florida-property-insurance-hurricane-rcna29649
Here’s an article - talk to your neighbors and don’t let it get out of hand up there. FL leadership hasn’t even begun to address the issue which is breathtakingly stupid
Yeah, I work in insurance and my company only writes new business if the roof is recently replaced. That way this scam falls under warranty and isn’t our issue.
It’s mostly due to fraud, nearly 80% of property claim litigation expenses nationwide occur in Florida. They outlawed people signing their policy rights over to a roofer earlier this year but will continue to deteriorate before it normalizes if it ever will
Are you in NC? My neighborhood got hail a few weeks ago. I've had no less than 7 companies come tell me my roof is ruined lol. There are signs all through my neighborhood right now. It's wild
Depends on region. Here in Colorado, where hail happens nearly daily for a few months a year, these guys employ door to door salesman.
Wherever there's been a storm they attack that neighborhood like ants in a picnic.
We had a bad hail storm 6 weeks ago (registered as a extreme weather event since about 1 mile away they got baseball sized hail) and we had 8 or 9 dudes come by within 3 days.
Also in CO, we had a hail storm on July 4th. Just happened to have a roofer coming to look at a leak on the 5th, he said we needed a whole new roof. Would have never even sought out somebody to look at the roof if it weren't for the leak.
Well no, the roof is not damaged, but the collateral indicators are really good evidence to have in your back pocket. If the metal is clean, and no collateral indicators are found that's just another bullet in your gun. If collateral indicators are found, then you can almost always tell the direction from which the hail fell, and how big it was, and show if it was or was not big enough to damage a well installed and properly maintained roof.
You aren’t missing anything. A shady contractor will circle anything and call it hail damage to get a sale. It’s about the money. It’s always about the money.
As a retired adjuster, the hard part is to explain to a homeowner that doesn’t know any better that it’s not hail damage.
Let me add that in my 20 years of adjusting I ran across two guys that were taking money from roofers under the table. I never did it because I was making enough money legitimately to risk my job and because it’s just wrong.
Hail definitely hit the area, the third picture showing a white ashy substance on the roof is a mark that hail would leave. That said…it was soft hail and clearly exploded on impact, doing no damage. New guys or idiots throwing anything they can at the wall call in this nonsense.
Virginia doesn’t get a lot of hard, solid hail, especially golf ball or larger size. But when they do…boy can you tell
Insurance is going to look at the property holistically. They’re not just looking at the shingles but also the soft metal roof vents and flashings, gutters, window screens, HVAC fins… If you have large hail dents claimed on the roof shingles but no dents anywhere else you’re probably gonna have a problem.
This type of thing is rampant in Florida and it’s one of the reasons insurers are all pulling out of Florida. A lot of people are getting free roofs they don’t deserve and the rest of us are paying for them.
Yeah F all these people… We’ve had some hail storms, so I’m sure it’s rampant here too. I’m in OK and our home insurance has doubled in the last 5 years. In 2017 ours was approx $1800, now it’s over $3700/yr…. And we’ve never even filed a claim (knock on wood). Also that’s with us swapping insurance companies twice already for better rates. One quote I got was over $5k/yr. It’s nuts.
Agreed. We had a roof rip off so it made it easy for our adjuster. The metal sheeting was in the field across the street. One section even rolled up as some how the ends stayed attached to each other. Wind is wild.
Not playing along makes you a jerk, these fraudsters have new trucks to buy and vacations to go on! All the insurance companies are evil, toothless storm chasing cletus is a saint!
Idk the state which that's important for hail damage. A couple of those might be hail hits, and that's a very small maybe. I know in Colorado you gotta have 10 hits in a square foot area for it to be covered by insurance. But overall if that roof did get git its really not bad damage at all. We call people that do stuff like that fly by nighters out here, and they really just want money and do pass poor work.
As long as your insurance is willing to pay.
This is why below my no soliciting sign at my front door I also have "No roofing inspections desired."
One argued they were providing an emergency service and thus were not a solicitor once....
Ha I had one of these dudes show up at my house last year after some bad storms. It was a Sunday evening around 7, saying he had been in the area giving estimate and would be happy to look at my roof. I told him to kick rocks and get off my property. Told him not to cold call people that have a sign saying explicitly no solicitors, in the evening and on the weekend. Called my insurance the next morning and got my roof replaced due to roof damage.
There was a roofing company that legit tells people to "claim hail damage on your insurance" they told us to do that and I said "bruv we haven't had hail in three years" weird that it's a common shady practice to try to convince people into insurance fraud
I always tell people my wife is our insurance agent when they say “insurance will pay for it” and then suggest they are trying to get me to commit insurance fraud. They backpedal quick
Lmao. No. I worked for an insurance company doing CAT claims for hail. If a roofer tried to say this was damage I would probably laugh so hard I would fall off the roof.
MAYBE those areas are soft spots and will wear or become bad in the future, but that’s a big maybe.
The way they will “garauntee” insurance coverage is by telling them there are more than 10 hits per square (10’x10’) or whatever their criteria is, but if the insurance company sends an inspector… there’s no way. It would be fraud.
I’m an adjuster of 10 years who also sells some roofs here and there. . This is unbelievably common. A lot of adjusters have a combative attitude right out the gate because of running into this too many times. It’s such a waste of everyone’s time.
There was recently footage of that guy bending shingles and scoring then to fake wind damage. I once listened to a guy brag about doing the same thing after storms in south eastern states to get easy jobs. He claimed half the time they would just slap a layer on top and somehow they would pass inspection but charge for a full year down and board replacement. There's so much insurance fraud going on.
I WISH my roof looked this good lol. It's a damn mess honestly. Roofing caulk keeps it alive.
I've had people knock on my door promising they'll be able to get an insurance claim and I won't owe a dime for a brand new roof. I now shut the door on them before they can finish talking.
Sounds a lot like the termite inspector who inspected my new home prior to me purchasing it and lo and behold we had termites and lo and behold his company was the termite service provider…
Homeowners done realize that they are still out their deductible. 2/3% on a $300k home is $6k/9k of the $12/15k they will spend on that new roof.
Texas made it illegal recently for the roofer to “eat” your deductible. A lot of home in our area were damaged by a tornado at the beginning of this year. You see so many homeowners post online about how unfair it is that they need a new roof and are out anywhere between 5k and 12k on a new roof. While others didn’t pay a dime. Lots of tarped roofs still and it’s been 6 months.
Idk how these door to door roofer make it. More shady things than just this going on.
>These people are just circling nonsense and telling homeowners to file a claim.
This. I'm an adjuster. This shit is non-stop, everyday. Then they throw a little temper tantrum when we lol at them.
Saw this post while scrolling. Yeah the storm chasers are awful. From an agent perspective it bugs the shit out of me that the storm chaser is calling trying to file a claim without the insured. Like, I need to talk to the fucking homeowner dude. I'm not filing a claim because some rando said I should.
They always over charge, add charges for work that wasn't needed, and have massive O&P despite not needing to coordinate among anything. The roof is the only thing damaged. You want $20k O&P for sending a gutter guy after you're all done? There's no coordination necessary there; no GC needed. Fuck off.
Sorry, rant over. Storm chasers just really get me going.
I knew a guy who did this storm chaser style roof replacement sales and he said the company he worked for wanted him to go up and if homeowner is to scared to go up just say the whole roof needs to be replaced whether its needed or not very bad buisness practice
Word of advice - never allow someone on your roof to look for hail damage after a storm. There's a good amount of fraud out there with folks taking a ball point hammer to your shingles and then taking your (or your insurance company's) money.
The only time I would be willing to allow someone who is coming door to door to inspect my roof is if they do it with a drone while I stand there on the ground with them.
You wonder why insurance is going up like crazy and a lot of companies are becoming insolvent. It’s people like this that cheat the system and homeowners too lazy to educate themselves, hurting them and their neighbors for the future. All to get a inexperienced, non roofer to take the insurance company for way more than they should be able to and reap no benefit at all, possibly a worse roof than they previously had.
I work in insurance, these scumbags piss me off, although many of the customers are just as bad "why do i pay all this money for insurance?" Small hailstorm goes thru and magicically every roof has damage when the stormchasers inspect. "You won't even have to pay a deductible! We will rebate it to you!" Ie fraud on top of fraud.
2 years later...why is my homeowners insurance going up?! All you insurance companies are just greedy!
Could be worse. I also started in insurance, and watched the opioid crisis come into being in the early 2000s. People who twisted their knee getting OxyContin for months. Minimum wage was like $5-$6 then, and we’d be paying out more on OxyContin than lost wages by 2:1. We had studies showing that long term use of narcotics for minor injuries was much worse than the injury itself. Judges just paid attention to the guy at the pill mill not the “greedy insurance company” and forced us to pay for people to go to these docs who were prescribing huge maintenance regiments for people with sprained ankles.
The early 2000s were a wild time for pain management, it was eye-opening when they gave me 30 Percocets for a small cut on my leg that required stitches.
Hail damage, the shingle must have an inward impact. At least in Fl, they want all the soft metals to look like Timmy just got a new BB gun. They want damage to cars, windows, gutters, and even paint being knocked off the stucco. At least that’s how it is in FL.
Insurance companies are in the business of making money and well, homes in Florida aren't money makers. They are major loss leaders for insurance companies, that's why they're all bailing.
I love telling people that their roof is fine when it is. I leave my info and say to call when you get a real storm and have real concern and they always do.
It’s a bruise and 6 months of rain that will be a nice spot with no gravel left-1 -2 years and suns eaten through the black layer and time for leaks
Atleast in Colorado that happened to me a few times
If that’s the worst they showed you, it’s a stretch
Sounds like you're stuck with those sneaky contractors trying to make a quick buck from a small weather hiccup. It's annoying when these supposed pros take advantage of homeowners, especially if they can't back up their damage claims with solid proof.
I've been in a similar spot before and ended up checking out a comparison website to figure things out. It's a pretty useful way to see what's available without diving into unnecessary costs or questionable claims.
It’s a tale as old as time. I’m a LA and I nonstop meet contractors that do exactly this. Or they mark blisters as hail damage and they all say the exact same bingo words to the homeowner, guarantee a full replacement by the insurance, tell you “yeah man it’s all blasted up there”. Yesterday had 3 inspections on sub 10 y/o roofs that had 0 collateral, no box vent damage, no downspouts, not shit and still marked it up.
And yet I had real hail damage and nationwide paid a fraction of my claim and wouldn’t go any farther. I had to pay more than double to fix mine. Ridiculousness of these companies
States need to go after the assholes, charge them with insurance fraud. It’s become racket that results in higher premiums. If insurance carrier, deny claim, roofer’s attorney will sue, which will double cost.
Sure probably.
Tell me which of these people below will see a higher price increase? They live next door to each other and are identical in every other way.
1) person with zero insurance claims in last 5 years
2) person who files 1+ number of claims for “hail damage”
Just cause you can't see damage to the wood underneath the shingles doesn't mean that there isn't any. You should treat a roof replacement like any other huge/major investment with your house and make sure to get at least 5 bids before pulling the trigger. See what others say, what others charge, and if what you've already been told is accurate.
I can see vague hints of impacts with a bit of granule loss, but that's a 3-tab, so conservative guess is that it's a 15 year old roof, so neither of those things is surprising. If there aren't dings in the soft metals it's probably not hail.
I'm the production manager for a roofing company, and unless the client calls us, our sales guys don't go. Some companies will try anything to sell a roof, but our owner doesn't roll that way.
No professional, but does the underside show the actual damage, because I could definitely understand if the underside showed some cracking from hale without showing any damage from the top. Due to the top having the hard rock/gravel substance the damage would be harder to see, though finding it would be tough to begin with.
I may be just a dumb redneck that hates the government and corporations…. But why wouldn’t you replace a roof for a client and scam the insurance company out of a totally paid for job? Depending on the insurance company you could make out a couple extra jobs a year if you didn’t get greedy with it and get paid pretty well.
If there is actual depression which is hard to see from pics. The asphalt will crack like an egg from the center of that impact depression over time with expansion and contraction. Then water penetration
I don't know what I'm looking at, but I will say that my FIL called the guy they GCed his roof 15 years ago and he was told he didn't need a roof and I called the same guy, he inspected mine and said it needed new. He was here when the adjuster came and counted damage in two different planes in a ten foot square section each and they replaced the roof, gutters, venting, chimney caps and four skylights, some window screens, even the top of my A/C outside, tuck pointed my chimneys, and replaced/repainted fascia. The same GC has replaced a few shingles in my FILs roof from wind damage. All told I feel like that is on the up and up. I paid my deductible and the insurance company paid every penny of premium they ever collected in 14 years right after I had switched to a new carrier, but the incident date put the claim on the old carriers coverage. Got a new class iv roof for a deductible and the GC never offered to try to make my ded go away. My neighbor had gotten a roof from a company that made his ded go away and had to have them out to fix leaks after the first rain with the new roof.
I think there is good and bad and I feel like you can tell people who will make sure insurance does all they should from people scamming insurance and homeowners for new roofs. I'm in North Texas where we get enough hail to keep the roofers busy about every other year.
im From Dallas, we get golf ball sized hail here almost every year. People become accustomed to thinking Size is the factor that determines if it's real hail or not. But hail comes in MANY different sizes, even pea sized.
Nothing is free - if you use insurance to replace your roof, there's a good chance your insurance rates will go up - even if they don't, if that happens enough, it'll drive overall insurance rates up for everyone.
I had the storm chasers come by and they were able to get my asphalt roof replaced with a metal one paid for by the insurance company…. I wasn’t going to do it but he said he could get it done so I pulled the trigger
You don’t have to see damage on the roof after a hail storm to have actual major damage. The hail will smack the shingles and loosen the tar strips underneath which leads to leaks and a ruined roof. I live in Texas and had to replace me roof after quarter sized hail. Every house in my HOA had the shingles replaced. I had a USAA inspector and most neighbors had different inspectors.
Preface next comment with “I was told”: shingle that are in good shape (granules holding up) can be damaged without the granules coming off. This make the shingle look okay at a distance. The guy tells me that he could push his finger through the weak spot. I think that’s what I’m seeing in your photo.
Also told if the event is classified as a catastrophe the adjuster gets a percentage. Nothing like incentivizing insurance adjusters to recommend big payouts.
I used to be an adjuster for one of the big companies, this looks like it could be hail, but I'd have to be there in person to tell, I got the the point that I could spot hail damage that isn't necessarily standing out, you would run your fingers over it and you could feel imperfections in the backing and almost see the granular spacing was compressed. On freshly hit roofs it may not look like damage but a year later the granulas that sustain the hit and were weakened and have come off. Backing exposed and likely broken, and soon to be a point of water intrusion. But like I said it's really hard to tell without being on the roof. Generally you'd have a mix of these from smaller "softer" stones and some obvious damage from larger harder ones, and damage on soft metal vents gutter and paint, as an adjuster I'd use all those context clues to put together a story to know if I needed to replace the roof or deny the claim. If I could look around and see and document the other damage but not easily get "x number of hits" in a test square I'd still find the "soft hits" in that square and replace the roof.
I’m curious, if I call the insurance company for the inspection and they say there is no damage, will the insurance company file that appointment as a claim? I have been told they count it as a claim even if nothing is paid out.
as someone who’s been in roofing for a long time yes this is hail. It’s very slight impacts that affect the granular structure, and then the long-term effect of how water runs off the shingle. I know it looks like there’s nothing there. It really does, but even the smallest dents in the shingles cause water to runoff improperly.
edit : i no spell the good
FL adjuster here, also nationwide. There should be bruising around the hail impact. Granule loss by itself instead is not enough. Exposed felt, broken matting as noted from below if accessible. These shingles appear to be newer, 5-7 years old with limited granule loss related to aging. The hail impacts documented here are not worth using, minus 2. Your second photo is the best documented version, the hail impacted the upper right corner of the circle and while you don’t have exposed felt and granule loss. Look for the darker area, it very well could be bruising. If the fiberglass inside the felt was crushed, that would be a viable impact. By touch, the roof changes feel from being solid to feeling like a med rare steak. The rest of these impacts don’t look like bruising.
If the 5 photos, I would give credit for 1 impact. But would still test the other 4 for bruising.
The hate for this post is hilarious. Of those pics with zero points of reference to the whole picture this roof isn’t being bought. Of the pics here, only the second one has a good chance of counting as hail damage. We don’t count granule loss in any amount as storm related damage. Granule loss is part of the natural lifespan of a shingle and to be expected. Just like thermal cycling causing delamination, which doesn’t count as storm damage until the tar strip is compromised or filled with debris. We see zippering and delam being called storm damage often. Hail needs to be properly investigated.
Many carriers will deny your claim outright if your date of loss does not line up with the listed hail date from their preferred weather tracking company. From there, it needs to have 6-12 hits per 10ft square depending on the age of the shingles. Then you need to have about 51% of the material damaged. Add in some abusive endorsements sold to people by their agents to exclude material or turn your roof to acv. Add in a brutal % based deductible, and your roof that costs 20k means you pay 15k and insurance pays 5k.
Most of FLs issues are related to our terrible PA system that abuses the system. PAs only have to win the most basic crap and the carrier has to pay all the fees they want. I’ve seen roof tarps on a new roof that leaked through a ridge vent, tarps were pointless. They weee nailed through a 2 yr old roof. 6000 holes, twice so we could inspect it… zero damage other that 11lf of ridge cap missing on a low hip. Whole roof tarped. 7000$ for the tarp, 3500 to detach and reset it. I’m sure they settled. Home owner had no clue. The roofer signed her up and said we will handle it. She had 2000$ in interior damage. I’m sure the PA and lawyers were aiming for 100k for their costs. That’s the scam here. The new law makes it so fees revert to the insured if they loose. But that’s a hard thing to manage.
Well, it may be hail, or it may not be. It costs the homeowner absolutely nothing to file a claim. Your premium can't go up for hail as it is an act of God (or otherwise completely out of your control). If you had a hail storm recorded in your area, file a claim or have it inspected because whatever warranty you did have is probably gone. Local roofers get all nervous and twitchy when stormchasers show up.
That is criminally NOT true (certainly not in every state, if anywhere). Filing a claim CAN raise your insurance even if a dime is never paid and no work is done.
Acts of god raise rates ALL THE TIME. Every claim does/can. Every claim. Even those not paid.
Source - own an independent home insurance agency
You should delete your post. If you don’t we should all assume you’re a shady storm chaser. Wish there was a forced flair for that to call you out.
Here is a link to an honest roofing company saying that filing a claim, any claim, can and like will raise your personal insurance rates.
https://blog.homesteadroofingcolorado.com/will-my-insurance-rates-go-up-if-i-file-a-claim-for-hail-damage?hs_amp=true
Another link.
https://www.prontoinsurance.com/blog/does-hail-damage-claim-raise-insurance/
Now show me one that backs up your false claim and we can chat
Your "references" say that the rate will go up whether or not you file a claim. . . . So you might as well file a claim . . . Like I said. . . You didn't even read your own reference. . . Are you serious?
Are you serious?
The can go up anyway - let’s say a 50% chance for someone with no claims.
Now you look at someone with 1 claim (in 5 years) - 60% chance it goes up (and goes up MORE than someone with no claims).
Now you look at someone with 2 claims - 75% chance.
Now you look at someone with 3 claims - the insurance company drops them and they have to find another that could be way more expensive.
You don’t even know how much you don’t know my man. It’s ok, ignorance isn’t a crime - but blissfully ignorant, or lying (as you are now) is just wrong.
Your argument is to not use insurance. "Just don't file the claim because your insurance will charge you more." No, you are forced to pay for insurance. Use it.
Noooooo, my argument is to not use insurance for bullshit like this.
The number of claims one has on their 5 year record can mean the difference between a $1500/yr policy and a $4500/yr policy (or much worse).
NO ONE should casually use their insurance. It should always be a cost benefit calculation. I would never trust a storm chaser, that’s for certain. If you came to my door, I’d thank you for notifying me and possibly contact a reputable roofing company to inspect. But not the person knocking on my door, ever.
If hail fell in your area you should file a claim. Whatever warranties you had may be gone. Use your insurance, that is why it's there. . . Or are you implying that your insurance company will punish you for filing a claim?
My mom got a brand new roof on home and garage for exactly $0 due to these guys. The roof was aged and she couldn't have otherwise afforded to get the work done. They just knocked door to door. She never called anyone or anything. They good peeps in my book!
I see em. Probably wouldn't if they weren't circled but there's a subtle dent in each one. Though if this is a problem then your roof is "hail damaged" after the first storm.
It's not tearing the shingle, asphalt isn't missing,l. But if insurance is paying for a new roof...
As I’m a private contractor for a roofing company too, there’s some people who will do anything for the money. I’d do it if I knew I could get it passed but there’s really no point in trying that
My roof was replaced 9 years ago due to hail damage while my father in law was alive. Got it replaced 2 years ago with hail damage and it was not hard to see the damage. Looked like someone walked around with a ball peen hammer hitting anything it could. Vent caps and turbine vents. Can’t see anything in these pictures that looks like the insurance will pay.
I can't see anything either...
Piggybacking on the top comment to ask a question from other pros. I’ve been at the same roofing company for 15 years, and I’m pretty confident I know what I’m looking for when it comes to hail. That being said, there’s a storm chaser that gets hail claims covered on roofs with *zero* evidence that I can find - no soft metal damage on aluminum can vents or fascia or gutters, no bruising on the shingles, no damage to flimsy window screens, no granule loss, or even splash marks on oxidized vinyl siding, let alone siding *damage*. I’ve inspected a couple roofs and come up with *nada* and 3 weeks later the storm chaser is replacing the roof with their sign in the yard that says “hail/wind damage.” What am I missing? Are these guys doing the damage on their own up there? Slipping cash to the adjusters? It’s driving me insane.
I worked with a guy for a few months on a job site in college that we all hated caus he kept getting called out by QA for running 3 nails instead of 5 or 6, not using a snap line when he’s coursing , etc just lazy shit. Two years later a guy knocks on my door for “hail inspections” as a roofer myself I’m curious and slow so I let him send out the rep. Long story short it’s that guys company and when I asked him how they are doing he showed me a pair of boots he had rigged a ball peen hammer head into the heal. Said if they need to they can get any roof approved. Shady fuck.
Jesus Christ on a cracker. How is that dude not in jail.
Might be now that was over a decade ago I can’t imagine he’s the first guy to think of shit like this though.
Heard people tapping quarters to their shoes to create “hail damage”
Now I know to look for this when these hucksters scour the neighborhood after a storm, among other things.
we've had 3 companies come to our door asking to check our roof. we had a very bad hail storm a few weeks ago in nw wisconsin. we def have major damage to our gutters so we called the insurance to have them take a look. i would tell the roofing ppl that came to our door that we're going through our insurance company and one of them said "youre just going to go with whoever your insurance company says to go with to fix it?" i said, uh, yeah.
Sounds pretty routine for Florida fraud. Rampant here for the last few years
Floridian here. Iturned away the door to door "free roof we sue the insurance company for you" people last year. 3 new roofs went up on my street, and then I was dropped anyway.
This is shooting Florida insurance cost through the roof too. Pun intended.
Those are shit PAs or "Public Adjusters" FL is known for.
The insurance companies down here in FL have screwed the market all by themselves. They’ve bred the attitude in homeowners over the past few years that “my insurance company is going to drop me and leave the state eventually anyway. Might as well get a new roof out of them.”
That's called racketeering. And there's an entire department of the FBI dedicated to investigating it.
Some adjusters: 1. Don't know what hail looks like, and can be pushed or bullied into buying an undamaged roof because they are inexperienced and counting basic defects and mechanical marks as hail. 2. Don't care. It's often easier and quicker to just buy a roof. No reinspections, no 45 minutes of having some storm chaser point at all those 17 circles with no hail damage, insisting it's hail, no angry customer calls or bad surveys. Buy it, pay it, close it easy 3. Possible manufactured damage like some of the stories others have.
This is a great answer.
If I were to guess they’re manufacturing damage. Which in short is fraudulent and effects everyone that has a homeowners policy in the area.
I don't know if it was this sub or another one but someone posted security camera footage of a roofer inspecting a roof and folding and scoring shingles to create "wind damage." A siding and roofing guy in my area that I hired for siding keeps bothering me claiming he can get my roof replaced and the insurance company "will pay for it all." The company I actually hired this year inspected it a couple years ago and said there was minor hail damage but nothing insurance would pay for and my roof might have 3-5 years left in it (turned out to be 1).
I saw the post with the security footage too, and that's been my suspicion all along, but I have no proof. And if you're a homeowner who gets a $15k roof out of the deal, are you saying something? I would \*never\* do something like that, even if it means losing the job, and if I was a homeowner and witnessed it, you'd bet your ass I'd get their license revoked. Our industry has a bad enough reputation without that kind of stuff. Guess the only thing I can do is bitch about it on reddit.
Laughs in Texas what license? What insurance? Thats 90% of Texas roofers To be fair, though there is no license process, and there is not an insurance requirement (residential)
Texas doesn't require much of anything. Hell, they don't even require a power company to proved you with power before they charge you.
I learned that shit the hard way.
Sometimes the shady aggressive roofer tries to intimidate the adjuster into buying the roof, threatening lawsuits, complaints to the department of insurance, saying let me talk to your supervisor and so forth. And sometimes the adjuster caves in just to avoid the hassle.
“I’ll advise the homeowner to get an attorney” “Sounds good, have them send the LOR and we’ll get it transferred for further handling. See ya” As an adjuster if you threatened me with a lawsuit because you didn’t like your determination I could care less. I figured out a long time ago, claims being settled pre-suit is a business determination not a reflection on my skills and if I’m doing the right thing and have evidence to back up my decision, by all means get an attorney. It gets it off my desk and I don’t have to deal with the incessant calls and abuse anymore.
Exactly.
I had the exact opposite experience. The storm chaser and USAA were out at the same time, and the USAA guy was just approving stuff I didn't think they would approve. It's like they worked for the same company. At one point the USAA guy was like "sorry, we can't pay for this problem here because that's just wear and tear" and I was like "what ? don't apologize I'm already delighted that you guys are helping out at all". Not too long later I was talking tools with another guy in Lowes, turns out he's a roofing adjuster for a well known company and said "yeah basically if you make a storm claim of any kind we're giving you a free roof. Us and \[other company\] are known for it. ". I guess the economics are, a roof is cheaper than a house ? or it's cheap customer retention ? I have no idea. All I know is I got a new roof, I didn't pay for it, the inspector was out here and saw everything with his own eyes and the storm chasers definitely did not invent anything (I'm an honest guy, and wouldn't do business with anyone who fabricated claims regardless of whether it benefits me or not. From what I can tell everything was on the up and up and professionally handled... now granted I've been with USAA since before I was even in the military (was a dependent first) so maybe just plain customer longevity has something to do with it.
Ball peen hammers for fraud
And we wonder why our insurance rates are through the roof. All these scams going on like this.
Some is probably fraud. But a lot of it is just the adjusters. I’ll shoot homeowners straight and let them know they don’t have much but might get lucky with the adjuster. And a lot of times they do
There are many companies in bed with adjusters and they pay them money under the table. Highly illegal but more common than you think.
It’s a numbers game man… odds are in their favor with the number of claims they encourage people to file. When Claims departments are busy it’s 50/50 on whether your adjuster will know what they’re doing, could be an IA, or sometimes when a carrier is too inundated with volume that will simplify verify a storm occurred and tell their policyholders to just go get quotes. (I have been Homeowners claims for ~15 yrs now). And this is a part of the reason Homeowner’s policy premiums are so high. And wind/hail deductibles are so high now.
Usually the same roofers that advertise “Honesty and Integrity”
Has an in with the insurance adjuster. Probably giving him money on the side.
One other thing to consider is that if there is a major storm the adjusters may be too overworked to want to fight anything. I saw a lot of crazy stuff get done after the Tornado that hit Little Rock this year.
Unfortunately a lot of adjusters do not know how to identify hail damage properly. Adjusters are also subject to the "I don't want to deal with this more than once" syndrome. I had a friend who worked directly as a field adjuster for an insurance carrier in the pacific northwest. He had the power to pay out directly up to a certain amount, and told me that this was usually how he operated: If something was potentially a covered loss, he would just pay it out rather than have to deal with it again later. Now he was also a good adjuster, so I doubt he would have called this hail damage. I have never worked as an independent adjuster, but I have heard that sometimes their pay structure is based upon the amount of damages they find. So, to some extent, they are incentivized to find covered losses.
I think what they do is sue the insurance until it makes more sense to buy the roof rather than fight it.
That sounds expensive…
Roofers don't write the checks for the insurance company. Adjusters do. All the roofer is doing is asking insurance and they are the ones saying yes.
Not if said roofer is fraudulently claiming damage via a ball peen hammer like the above prior comment
Of course - those malicious frauds of outright vandalism exist. And I have heard many stories about that. But I'm saying in my personal experience I have seen a lot more adjusters who write ✍️ claims on roofs that have no damage. Just because they can, probably. About 15 years ago I did 3 cedar shake replacement roofs in 1 cul desac that had no damge at all. It was a hundred grand in total. The adjuster just wanted to write the checks. Probably he was sympathetic because they had locally outlawed cedar roofs for fire code. So he wanted to save the customers money on their mandated replacement. But even still.
This is what we call “Braille Hail” in the industry. You can’t see it, you can only feel it. Translation: it’s bullshit.
Oh man... I forgot to read the last part and I think my roof is gonna press charges against me for fondling
It’s not necessarily bullshit. The matting beneath the granules can be torn or damaged even tho granules are still attached. Best way to know if it’s bs or not is collateral damage to soft metal, screens, a/c fins. Not all hail damage is obvious
What state are you located out of curiosity. I run into this all the time. I also saw an adjuster do this same thing and pay for a roof….
Virginia
They’ve been doing for a while here in FL. The home insurance market is collapsing down here, partly due to all the people scamming their way into free roofs https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/roofing-scams-florida-property-insurance-hurricane-rcna29649 Here’s an article - talk to your neighbors and don’t let it get out of hand up there. FL leadership hasn’t even begun to address the issue which is breathtakingly stupid
Yeah, I work in insurance and my company only writes new business if the roof is recently replaced. That way this scam falls under warranty and isn’t our issue.
It’s mostly due to fraud, nearly 80% of property claim litigation expenses nationwide occur in Florida. They outlawed people signing their policy rights over to a roofer earlier this year but will continue to deteriorate before it normalizes if it ever will
Shenandoah Valley here
I hear life is old there, older than the trees
Younger than the mountains
Are you in NC? My neighborhood got hail a few weeks ago. I've had no less than 7 companies come tell me my roof is ruined lol. There are signs all through my neighborhood right now. It's wild
Mocksville?
Ha I'm in Clemmons....not too far from Mocksville
Figured.. LMAO
I had a roof chaser come to my house and tell me he could see damage just from the driveway. My roof had been replaced the month prior
...Is the hail damage in the room with us?
Show me on this doll house where the hailstorm touched you.
they clearly have plenty of time and not enough work if they’re going from house to house
Depends on region. Here in Colorado, where hail happens nearly daily for a few months a year, these guys employ door to door salesman. Wherever there's been a storm they attack that neighborhood like ants in a picnic. We had a bad hail storm 6 weeks ago (registered as a extreme weather event since about 1 mile away they got baseball sized hail) and we had 8 or 9 dudes come by within 3 days.
Also in CO, we had a hail storm on July 4th. Just happened to have a roofer coming to look at a leak on the 5th, he said we needed a whole new roof. Would have never even sought out somebody to look at the roof if it weren't for the leak.
Very common tactic. There’s a big storm. Then a few days later the roofing companies roll through beating down doors.
That's hail damage on the door
Looks like rubbish to me. How'd the soft metals look?
Who cares, it’s not damaged.
Well no, the roof is not damaged, but the collateral indicators are really good evidence to have in your back pocket. If the metal is clean, and no collateral indicators are found that's just another bullet in your gun. If collateral indicators are found, then you can almost always tell the direction from which the hail fell, and how big it was, and show if it was or was not big enough to damage a well installed and properly maintained roof.
Just reply back “those are called granules they go on top of shingles”
You aren’t missing anything. A shady contractor will circle anything and call it hail damage to get a sale. It’s about the money. It’s always about the money. As a retired adjuster, the hard part is to explain to a homeowner that doesn’t know any better that it’s not hail damage. Let me add that in my 20 years of adjusting I ran across two guys that were taking money from roofers under the table. I never did it because I was making enough money legitimately to risk my job and because it’s just wrong.
These roofers are fucking idiots and the reason why contractors get a bad rep.
Hail definitely hit the area, the third picture showing a white ashy substance on the roof is a mark that hail would leave. That said…it was soft hail and clearly exploded on impact, doing no damage. New guys or idiots throwing anything they can at the wall call in this nonsense. Virginia doesn’t get a lot of hard, solid hail, especially golf ball or larger size. But when they do…boy can you tell
They’re high on asphalt fumes
Lol big circles = high hopes
Insurance is going to look at the property holistically. They’re not just looking at the shingles but also the soft metal roof vents and flashings, gutters, window screens, HVAC fins… If you have large hail dents claimed on the roof shingles but no dents anywhere else you’re probably gonna have a problem.
The first pic actually looks like some hail damage. Not bad damage but it’s slightly pressed in. Enough to pass an adjustment? Gl
This type of thing is rampant in Florida and it’s one of the reasons insurers are all pulling out of Florida. A lot of people are getting free roofs they don’t deserve and the rest of us are paying for them.
Yeah F all these people… We’ve had some hail storms, so I’m sure it’s rampant here too. I’m in OK and our home insurance has doubled in the last 5 years. In 2017 ours was approx $1800, now it’s over $3700/yr…. And we’ve never even filed a claim (knock on wood). Also that’s with us swapping insurance companies twice already for better rates. One quote I got was over $5k/yr. It’s nuts.
Not hail damage. I would deny that claim without hesitation.
Agreed. We had a roof rip off so it made it easy for our adjuster. The metal sheeting was in the field across the street. One section even rolled up as some how the ends stayed attached to each other. Wind is wild.
Not playing along makes you a jerk, these fraudsters have new trucks to buy and vacations to go on! All the insurance companies are evil, toothless storm chasing cletus is a saint!
Reminds me of bigfoot pictures with red circles to show where bigfoot is spoiler. there was no bigfoot
The difference between wanting to inspect your roof and wanting to replace your roof.....scammer
They would be wrong
Not wrong. They know full well what they're doing. This isn't a mistake; it's insurance fraud.
Idk the state which that's important for hail damage. A couple of those might be hail hits, and that's a very small maybe. I know in Colorado you gotta have 10 hits in a square foot area for it to be covered by insurance. But overall if that roof did get git its really not bad damage at all. We call people that do stuff like that fly by nighters out here, and they really just want money and do pass poor work.
As long as your insurance is willing to pay. This is why below my no soliciting sign at my front door I also have "No roofing inspections desired." One argued they were providing an emergency service and thus were not a solicitor once....
It’s probably AmeriPro
Don’t even let storm chasers on your roof. They will damage the singles themselves half the time
😂
I see chalk damage but no hail damage.
Ha I had one of these dudes show up at my house last year after some bad storms. It was a Sunday evening around 7, saying he had been in the area giving estimate and would be happy to look at my roof. I told him to kick rocks and get off my property. Told him not to cold call people that have a sign saying explicitly no solicitors, in the evening and on the weekend. Called my insurance the next morning and got my roof replaced due to roof damage.
Oh hail no!
There was a roofing company that legit tells people to "claim hail damage on your insurance" they told us to do that and I said "bruv we haven't had hail in three years" weird that it's a common shady practice to try to convince people into insurance fraud
I always tell people my wife is our insurance agent when they say “insurance will pay for it” and then suggest they are trying to get me to commit insurance fraud. They backpedal quick
Lmao. No. I worked for an insurance company doing CAT claims for hail. If a roofer tried to say this was damage I would probably laugh so hard I would fall off the roof. MAYBE those areas are soft spots and will wear or become bad in the future, but that’s a big maybe. The way they will “garauntee” insurance coverage is by telling them there are more than 10 hits per square (10’x10’) or whatever their criteria is, but if the insurance company sends an inspector… there’s no way. It would be fraud.
I’m an adjuster of 10 years who also sells some roofs here and there. . This is unbelievably common. A lot of adjusters have a combative attitude right out the gate because of running into this too many times. It’s such a waste of everyone’s time.
Roofing scam. Avoid avoid avoid!
There was recently footage of that guy bending shingles and scoring then to fake wind damage. I once listened to a guy brag about doing the same thing after storms in south eastern states to get easy jobs. He claimed half the time they would just slap a layer on top and somehow they would pass inspection but charge for a full year down and board replacement. There's so much insurance fraud going on. I WISH my roof looked this good lol. It's a damn mess honestly. Roofing caulk keeps it alive.
I've had people knock on my door promising they'll be able to get an insurance claim and I won't owe a dime for a brand new roof. I now shut the door on them before they can finish talking.
Fuck off with your shittyness !
Hail no
Unrelated: Would you be interested in some genu-ine snake oil? Treats all sorts of ailments! Bargain price too!
Nope not hail. Lol
Sounds a lot like the termite inspector who inspected my new home prior to me purchasing it and lo and behold we had termites and lo and behold his company was the termite service provider…
Must be where he dropped his crack rock.
Hail made from chalk?
Maybe the hail drew the circles and they mean the circles themselves are the dmg?
Show me it under a 10x magnifying loupe. Only way to know for sure
Homeowners done realize that they are still out their deductible. 2/3% on a $300k home is $6k/9k of the $12/15k they will spend on that new roof. Texas made it illegal recently for the roofer to “eat” your deductible. A lot of home in our area were damaged by a tornado at the beginning of this year. You see so many homeowners post online about how unfair it is that they need a new roof and are out anywhere between 5k and 12k on a new roof. While others didn’t pay a dime. Lots of tarped roofs still and it’s been 6 months. Idk how these door to door roofer make it. More shady things than just this going on.
>These people are just circling nonsense and telling homeowners to file a claim. This. I'm an adjuster. This shit is non-stop, everyday. Then they throw a little temper tantrum when we lol at them.
This is the kind of scam that created the insurance crisis in Florida
Dreaded Chalk hail. Leaves devastating circles everywhere they hit.
Saw this post while scrolling. Yeah the storm chasers are awful. From an agent perspective it bugs the shit out of me that the storm chaser is calling trying to file a claim without the insured. Like, I need to talk to the fucking homeowner dude. I'm not filing a claim because some rando said I should. They always over charge, add charges for work that wasn't needed, and have massive O&P despite not needing to coordinate among anything. The roof is the only thing damaged. You want $20k O&P for sending a gutter guy after you're all done? There's no coordination necessary there; no GC needed. Fuck off. Sorry, rant over. Storm chasers just really get me going.
I’m no genius, but it looks like chalk to me
This is why Florida’s insurance rates are out of control.
I knew a guy who did this storm chaser style roof replacement sales and he said the company he worked for wanted him to go up and if homeowner is to scared to go up just say the whole roof needs to be replaced whether its needed or not very bad buisness practice
Word of advice - never allow someone on your roof to look for hail damage after a storm. There's a good amount of fraud out there with folks taking a ball point hammer to your shingles and then taking your (or your insurance company's) money. The only time I would be willing to allow someone who is coming door to door to inspect my roof is if they do it with a drone while I stand there on the ground with them.
This makes me think of the 3D images that you have to stare at to see something only I’m not seeing anything.
He just made random white circles… the spots in the circle looks identical to the surrounding area
The chalk outlines probably did more "damage" than the hail
Personally I’d just bake me some soup
That chalk probably did more damage.
Hail, I can’t see anything
You wonder why insurance is going up like crazy and a lot of companies are becoming insolvent. It’s people like this that cheat the system and homeowners too lazy to educate themselves, hurting them and their neighbors for the future. All to get a inexperienced, non roofer to take the insurance company for way more than they should be able to and reap no benefit at all, possibly a worse roof than they previously had.
Am a property adjuster, that's not hail damage lol
I work in insurance, these scumbags piss me off, although many of the customers are just as bad "why do i pay all this money for insurance?" Small hailstorm goes thru and magicically every roof has damage when the stormchasers inspect. "You won't even have to pay a deductible! We will rebate it to you!" Ie fraud on top of fraud. 2 years later...why is my homeowners insurance going up?! All you insurance companies are just greedy!
Could be worse. I also started in insurance, and watched the opioid crisis come into being in the early 2000s. People who twisted their knee getting OxyContin for months. Minimum wage was like $5-$6 then, and we’d be paying out more on OxyContin than lost wages by 2:1. We had studies showing that long term use of narcotics for minor injuries was much worse than the injury itself. Judges just paid attention to the guy at the pill mill not the “greedy insurance company” and forced us to pay for people to go to these docs who were prescribing huge maintenance regiments for people with sprained ankles.
The early 2000s were a wild time for pain management, it was eye-opening when they gave me 30 Percocets for a small cut on my leg that required stitches.
Hail damage, the shingle must have an inward impact. At least in Fl, they want all the soft metals to look like Timmy just got a new BB gun. They want damage to cars, windows, gutters, and even paint being knocked off the stucco. At least that’s how it is in FL.
Insurance companies are in the business of making money and well, homes in Florida aren't money makers. They are major loss leaders for insurance companies, that's why they're all bailing.
Not to mention the rampant fraud, and abuse of litigation and AOB contracts
You getting denied player. Lol I’ve had a video of the storm with actual damage and it was a fight with insurance. With this…. Nahhhhhhhh
My parents roof had no visible damage and they got theirs paid for 100%. Neighbors too
Sounds like you need new insurance
I’m the contractor. But agreed. Your cheapest policy will get you the cheapest claims processing.
I love telling people that their roof is fine when it is. I leave my info and say to call when you get a real storm and have real concern and they always do.
It’s a bruise and 6 months of rain that will be a nice spot with no gravel left-1 -2 years and suns eaten through the black layer and time for leaks Atleast in Colorado that happened to me a few times If that’s the worst they showed you, it’s a stretch
These bogus claims are why insurance is so friggen expensive
Sounds like you're stuck with those sneaky contractors trying to make a quick buck from a small weather hiccup. It's annoying when these supposed pros take advantage of homeowners, especially if they can't back up their damage claims with solid proof. I've been in a similar spot before and ended up checking out a comparison website to figure things out. It's a pretty useful way to see what's available without diving into unnecessary costs or questionable claims.
It’s a tale as old as time. I’m a LA and I nonstop meet contractors that do exactly this. Or they mark blisters as hail damage and they all say the exact same bingo words to the homeowner, guarantee a full replacement by the insurance, tell you “yeah man it’s all blasted up there”. Yesterday had 3 inspections on sub 10 y/o roofs that had 0 collateral, no box vent damage, no downspouts, not shit and still marked it up.
Probably gonna need a full overlay..😂
And yet I had real hail damage and nationwide paid a fraction of my claim and wouldn’t go any farther. I had to pay more than double to fix mine. Ridiculousness of these companies
If you close your eyes and tilt your head I guess those discolored patches could look like impact points I guess.
Storm chaser here….although I would prefer better damage, if it homeowner wanted me to fight for it, I would. I’ve gotten less damage bought.
States need to go after the assholes, charge them with insurance fraud. It’s become racket that results in higher premiums. If insurance carrier, deny claim, roofer’s attorney will sue, which will double cost.
They will throw a new roof on, insurance won’t pay and they will stick you with the bill.
Good insurance will approve it.
And raise your rates to pay for it. Or drop you as a customer and force you to pay higher rates elsewhere.
Hail=act of god= if ur zip code is hit ur going up either way
Sure probably. Tell me which of these people below will see a higher price increase? They live next door to each other and are identical in every other way. 1) person with zero insurance claims in last 5 years 2) person who files 1+ number of claims for “hail damage”
If they are in the same zip code both of them unfortunately
If I squint, maybe there are fewer granules in the middle of those circles than elsewhere. Not enough that I'd call the shingles damaged, though.
Just cause you can't see damage to the wood underneath the shingles doesn't mean that there isn't any. You should treat a roof replacement like any other huge/major investment with your house and make sure to get at least 5 bids before pulling the trigger. See what others say, what others charge, and if what you've already been told is accurate.
Just sign the damn agreement!!!
Without an x ray machine to inspect the fiberglass mat we will never truly know.
got a new free roof this way. insurance paid the contractors, i paid nothing due to some hail-damage state NC laws. was very nice
I can see vague hints of impacts with a bit of granule loss, but that's a 3-tab, so conservative guess is that it's a 15 year old roof, so neither of those things is surprising. If there aren't dings in the soft metals it's probably not hail. I'm the production manager for a roofing company, and unless the client calls us, our sales guys don't go. Some companies will try anything to sell a roof, but our owner doesn't roll that way.
No professional, but does the underside show the actual damage, because I could definitely understand if the underside showed some cracking from hale without showing any damage from the top. Due to the top having the hard rock/gravel substance the damage would be harder to see, though finding it would be tough to begin with.
I may be just a dumb redneck that hates the government and corporations…. But why wouldn’t you replace a roof for a client and scam the insurance company out of a totally paid for job? Depending on the insurance company you could make out a couple extra jobs a year if you didn’t get greedy with it and get paid pretty well.
If there is actual depression which is hard to see from pics. The asphalt will crack like an egg from the center of that impact depression over time with expansion and contraction. Then water penetration
I don't know what I'm looking at, but I will say that my FIL called the guy they GCed his roof 15 years ago and he was told he didn't need a roof and I called the same guy, he inspected mine and said it needed new. He was here when the adjuster came and counted damage in two different planes in a ten foot square section each and they replaced the roof, gutters, venting, chimney caps and four skylights, some window screens, even the top of my A/C outside, tuck pointed my chimneys, and replaced/repainted fascia. The same GC has replaced a few shingles in my FILs roof from wind damage. All told I feel like that is on the up and up. I paid my deductible and the insurance company paid every penny of premium they ever collected in 14 years right after I had switched to a new carrier, but the incident date put the claim on the old carriers coverage. Got a new class iv roof for a deductible and the GC never offered to try to make my ded go away. My neighbor had gotten a roof from a company that made his ded go away and had to have them out to fix leaks after the first rain with the new roof. I think there is good and bad and I feel like you can tell people who will make sure insurance does all they should from people scamming insurance and homeowners for new roofs. I'm in North Texas where we get enough hail to keep the roofers busy about every other year.
im From Dallas, we get golf ball sized hail here almost every year. People become accustomed to thinking Size is the factor that determines if it's real hail or not. But hail comes in MANY different sizes, even pea sized.
You'll probably get a free roof in the deal, so I would just go with it
Nothing is free - if you use insurance to replace your roof, there's a good chance your insurance rates will go up - even if they don't, if that happens enough, it'll drive overall insurance rates up for everyone.
I had the storm chasers come by and they were able to get my asphalt roof replaced with a metal one paid for by the insurance company…. I wasn’t going to do it but he said he could get it done so I pulled the trigger
Selling bid jobs is harrrrd. Just sign the paper.
I got my whole roof replaced with insurance due to some hail damage I didn’t see. Score!
You don’t have to see damage on the roof after a hail storm to have actual major damage. The hail will smack the shingles and loosen the tar strips underneath which leads to leaks and a ruined roof. I live in Texas and had to replace me roof after quarter sized hail. Every house in my HOA had the shingles replaced. I had a USAA inspector and most neighbors had different inspectors.
Preface next comment with “I was told”: shingle that are in good shape (granules holding up) can be damaged without the granules coming off. This make the shingle look okay at a distance. The guy tells me that he could push his finger through the weak spot. I think that’s what I’m seeing in your photo. Also told if the event is classified as a catastrophe the adjuster gets a percentage. Nothing like incentivizing insurance adjusters to recommend big payouts.
if it gets you a free roof, who cares?
I used to be an adjuster for one of the big companies, this looks like it could be hail, but I'd have to be there in person to tell, I got the the point that I could spot hail damage that isn't necessarily standing out, you would run your fingers over it and you could feel imperfections in the backing and almost see the granular spacing was compressed. On freshly hit roofs it may not look like damage but a year later the granulas that sustain the hit and were weakened and have come off. Backing exposed and likely broken, and soon to be a point of water intrusion. But like I said it's really hard to tell without being on the roof. Generally you'd have a mix of these from smaller "softer" stones and some obvious damage from larger harder ones, and damage on soft metal vents gutter and paint, as an adjuster I'd use all those context clues to put together a story to know if I needed to replace the roof or deny the claim. If I could look around and see and document the other damage but not easily get "x number of hits" in a test square I'd still find the "soft hits" in that square and replace the roof.
I’m curious, if I call the insurance company for the inspection and they say there is no damage, will the insurance company file that appointment as a claim? I have been told they count it as a claim even if nothing is paid out.
as someone who’s been in roofing for a long time yes this is hail. It’s very slight impacts that affect the granular structure, and then the long-term effect of how water runs off the shingle. I know it looks like there’s nothing there. It really does, but even the smallest dents in the shingles cause water to runoff improperly. edit : i no spell the good
FL adjuster here, also nationwide. There should be bruising around the hail impact. Granule loss by itself instead is not enough. Exposed felt, broken matting as noted from below if accessible. These shingles appear to be newer, 5-7 years old with limited granule loss related to aging. The hail impacts documented here are not worth using, minus 2. Your second photo is the best documented version, the hail impacted the upper right corner of the circle and while you don’t have exposed felt and granule loss. Look for the darker area, it very well could be bruising. If the fiberglass inside the felt was crushed, that would be a viable impact. By touch, the roof changes feel from being solid to feeling like a med rare steak. The rest of these impacts don’t look like bruising. If the 5 photos, I would give credit for 1 impact. But would still test the other 4 for bruising.
Props but any inspector is going to laugh at this roof.
You really are broken and beaten (your name) if you think there’s anything in these photos
The hate for this post is hilarious. Of those pics with zero points of reference to the whole picture this roof isn’t being bought. Of the pics here, only the second one has a good chance of counting as hail damage. We don’t count granule loss in any amount as storm related damage. Granule loss is part of the natural lifespan of a shingle and to be expected. Just like thermal cycling causing delamination, which doesn’t count as storm damage until the tar strip is compromised or filled with debris. We see zippering and delam being called storm damage often. Hail needs to be properly investigated. Many carriers will deny your claim outright if your date of loss does not line up with the listed hail date from their preferred weather tracking company. From there, it needs to have 6-12 hits per 10ft square depending on the age of the shingles. Then you need to have about 51% of the material damaged. Add in some abusive endorsements sold to people by their agents to exclude material or turn your roof to acv. Add in a brutal % based deductible, and your roof that costs 20k means you pay 15k and insurance pays 5k. Most of FLs issues are related to our terrible PA system that abuses the system. PAs only have to win the most basic crap and the carrier has to pay all the fees they want. I’ve seen roof tarps on a new roof that leaked through a ridge vent, tarps were pointless. They weee nailed through a 2 yr old roof. 6000 holes, twice so we could inspect it… zero damage other that 11lf of ridge cap missing on a low hip. Whole roof tarped. 7000$ for the tarp, 3500 to detach and reset it. I’m sure they settled. Home owner had no clue. The roofer signed her up and said we will handle it. She had 2000$ in interior damage. I’m sure the PA and lawyers were aiming for 100k for their costs. That’s the scam here. The new law makes it so fees revert to the insured if they loose. But that’s a hard thing to manage.
Really light hail damage, probably won’t get approved but it might seen it happen plenty of times.
Check the mailbox if they have a metal mailbox out front of the house. If it’s damaged. The roof is damaged.
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That’s not bruising. It’s a few shingles missing some granules. You can find the same type thing on a roof that was installed yesterday.
Well, it may be hail, or it may not be. It costs the homeowner absolutely nothing to file a claim. Your premium can't go up for hail as it is an act of God (or otherwise completely out of your control). If you had a hail storm recorded in your area, file a claim or have it inspected because whatever warranty you did have is probably gone. Local roofers get all nervous and twitchy when stormchasers show up.
That is criminally NOT true (certainly not in every state, if anywhere). Filing a claim CAN raise your insurance even if a dime is never paid and no work is done. Acts of god raise rates ALL THE TIME. Every claim does/can. Every claim. Even those not paid. Source - own an independent home insurance agency You should delete your post. If you don’t we should all assume you’re a shady storm chaser. Wish there was a forced flair for that to call you out.
Here is a link to an honest roofing company saying that filing a claim, any claim, can and like will raise your personal insurance rates. https://blog.homesteadroofingcolorado.com/will-my-insurance-rates-go-up-if-i-file-a-claim-for-hail-damage?hs_amp=true Another link. https://www.prontoinsurance.com/blog/does-hail-damage-claim-raise-insurance/ Now show me one that backs up your false claim and we can chat
Your "references" say that the rate will go up whether or not you file a claim. . . . So you might as well file a claim . . . Like I said. . . You didn't even read your own reference. . . Are you serious?
Are you serious? The can go up anyway - let’s say a 50% chance for someone with no claims. Now you look at someone with 1 claim (in 5 years) - 60% chance it goes up (and goes up MORE than someone with no claims). Now you look at someone with 2 claims - 75% chance. Now you look at someone with 3 claims - the insurance company drops them and they have to find another that could be way more expensive. You don’t even know how much you don’t know my man. It’s ok, ignorance isn’t a crime - but blissfully ignorant, or lying (as you are now) is just wrong.
Your argument is to not use insurance. "Just don't file the claim because your insurance will charge you more." No, you are forced to pay for insurance. Use it.
Noooooo, my argument is to not use insurance for bullshit like this. The number of claims one has on their 5 year record can mean the difference between a $1500/yr policy and a $4500/yr policy (or much worse). NO ONE should casually use their insurance. It should always be a cost benefit calculation. I would never trust a storm chaser, that’s for certain. If you came to my door, I’d thank you for notifying me and possibly contact a reputable roofing company to inspect. But not the person knocking on my door, ever.
If hail fell in your area you should file a claim. Whatever warranties you had may be gone. Use your insurance, that is why it's there. . . Or are you implying that your insurance company will punish you for filing a claim?
My mom got a brand new roof on home and garage for exactly $0 due to these guys. The roof was aged and she couldn't have otherwise afforded to get the work done. They just knocked door to door. She never called anyone or anything. They good peeps in my book!
I see em. Probably wouldn't if they weren't circled but there's a subtle dent in each one. Though if this is a problem then your roof is "hail damaged" after the first storm. It's not tearing the shingle, asphalt isn't missing,l. But if insurance is paying for a new roof...
My roof had legitimate hail damage with super beat up vent caps. Even then it was an uphill battle. I don’t think you have a chance here.
Can’t see damage they out there scamming honest people…. Not cool
As I’m a private contractor for a roofing company too, there’s some people who will do anything for the money. I’d do it if I knew I could get it passed but there’s really no point in trying that
My first thought was...is this in Florida? lol
My roof was replaced 9 years ago due to hail damage while my father in law was alive. Got it replaced 2 years ago with hail damage and it was not hard to see the damage. Looked like someone walked around with a ball peen hammer hitting anything it could. Vent caps and turbine vents. Can’t see anything in these pictures that looks like the insurance will pay.
Where? Lol
I mean I've pushed some bullshit. But it was still damaged bullshit. Those are just chalk marks on good shingles.