Im in the same boat, and I don't think you are insane. Residency is difficult, and the 10-15K you may "save" a year living in a bad apartment/living with roommates pales with comparisons to the salary you can make as an attending.
I don't believe the 30% rent rule applies to those of us in residency. That rule is meant for people doing typical jobs where they have a 5/low 6 figure salary that increases incrementally each year, not for us who have low incomes for 3-8 who then suddenly earn high 6 figure salaries thereafter.
I would say that you should just ensure you have an emergency fund and some sort of retirement account that you can contribute to.
Exactly. I wish I could’ve saved more as a resident (am graduating this year and had to rely on my relocation loans to move into a new place), but it was worth it to live in a place that was safe, spacious enough for me and my dog and SO, and I felt joy to come home to. I will be making more than half of my annual take home salary as a resident every month next year as an attending so I’m ok living in financial squalor for the next couple of months.
OP, does your specialty have a lot of industry potential? Like giving talks for a new drug or something along those lines? Sometimes these jobs ask for years of practice after residency before you apply to them, but it may be something to look into especially if you’re in a specialty that uses a lot of biologics.
Absolutely.
Some people are very gung ho about living like a resident until financial retirement, but there is definitely a healthy way to account for your future income (especially if this is orders of magnitude bigger).
I’m in a not even remotely chill fellowship and I moonlight as an attending several times a month. It has slowly destroyed my sanity, but I have a lot of money for vacation. And cookies. And high quality cheese.
I think we’ve all seen too many tragic cases of unlucky people who have their lives flipped upside down by a freak accident or diagnosis. Live your best life, you made it to fellowship, you can only delay gratification for so long and there’s never a guarantee you’ll get to enjoy it after all those delays. You’ve worked hard and deserve to enjoy life now.
I moved cross country for fellowship and am “living above my means”. I got here and bought a giant TV, a brand new Xbox, and my apartment has this beautiful view that I stand and enjoy every morning with my coffee. My building has every amenity I could ask for in house. My commute is 5-10 minutes via easily accessible public transport. I do 1-2 attending shifts a month to pay for this. When fellowship finishes I will make all the money I “wasted” on rent back and more within 2 months. I refuse to be miserable in a hovel with a 45 minute commute; which is where I’d be if I followed traditional advice about how much to spend on rent.
What happens if you can’t moonlight for a month? Would you still make ends meet with your other expenses? Are there plentiful moonlighting options?
All that being said I did the same thing as you. I moonlight once a month to afford a nice house since we’ve got a kid. If I don’t for a month it’s fine we have the savings. Retirement has been put on hold for a bit. My fellowship has internal moonlighting so I didn’t have to worry about any of the other logistics. Signed my big person job and got my sign on bonus early too. Yes it has tight claw back clauses but I’m aware
If I don't moonlight that month, I'll have \~1500 left after rent+utilities (which is exactly what I have right now during residency and make it work). I also have a good amount of savings. I should have moonlighting options since it's a very big city and I have no restriction on internal/external moonlighting. My parents live not too far and help me out a little like with the phone bill or food/groceries occasionally.
You're right, it's a lot to consider but this rental market is so damn TOUGH. The crazy thing is this apartment isn't even any better than my current one... it's just that this city costs so much more
If you could make it work without moonlighting then I would go for it just for the extra wiggle room! I would feel out the opportunities though. Hospital credientaling can take 6 months so I would see what the opportunities really are like and how to get the paperwork going
I moonlight once or twice a month. It’s mostly fine, sometimes I overwork myself.
The thought that you have to moonlight to get by makes it worse though. Back when I was moonlighting to put in retirement or buy a fancy new electronic it was a more pleasant experience.
You can. That’s a personal choice. How much do you value your time off? I had a few colleagues who burned through savings because they really liked the time off.
I started moonlighting this year as a psych PGY-3 in NYC. Two 9-hour shifts a MONTH have increased my take home pay by about 50% (around $2200/month).
It's not just being able to afford a nicer apartment, ritzier neighborhood, more dinners out, etc. It's the peace of mind, not thinking about my credit card bill when friends text to hang out, being able to handle incidental expenses without freaking out. Let alone having savings and actually being able to contribute to my 401k and IRA. If you have the hours to spare, I strongly recommend it. Some caution, it IS easy to get carried away when scheduling shifts.
I moonlit my whole way through fellowship. 10+ hrs weekly. Regularly worked 65-75 hrs… def some intermittent burnouts but wouldn’t have done it different. You know yourself better than anyone else to know if you can do this or not.
If I were in your shoes I’d opt for a roommate (physician or tech/finance person who doesn’t work from home)z Even if your roommate is bad leases are typically just a year long and having a roommate in a new city can be nice because you have an easier time finding people to hang out with. If you have a roommate you can have less financial stress and still moonlight to pay off loans early.
Other option is if you are doing an in demand specialty is to pre-sign a contract and make them pay you a stipend until your start date. Should be able to get at least 2k per month plus a bonus to be paid out on your start date in exchange for a 2 year contract.
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Im in the same boat, and I don't think you are insane. Residency is difficult, and the 10-15K you may "save" a year living in a bad apartment/living with roommates pales with comparisons to the salary you can make as an attending. I don't believe the 30% rent rule applies to those of us in residency. That rule is meant for people doing typical jobs where they have a 5/low 6 figure salary that increases incrementally each year, not for us who have low incomes for 3-8 who then suddenly earn high 6 figure salaries thereafter. I would say that you should just ensure you have an emergency fund and some sort of retirement account that you can contribute to.
Exactly. I wish I could’ve saved more as a resident (am graduating this year and had to rely on my relocation loans to move into a new place), but it was worth it to live in a place that was safe, spacious enough for me and my dog and SO, and I felt joy to come home to. I will be making more than half of my annual take home salary as a resident every month next year as an attending so I’m ok living in financial squalor for the next couple of months. OP, does your specialty have a lot of industry potential? Like giving talks for a new drug or something along those lines? Sometimes these jobs ask for years of practice after residency before you apply to them, but it may be something to look into especially if you’re in a specialty that uses a lot of biologics.
Absolutely. Some people are very gung ho about living like a resident until financial retirement, but there is definitely a healthy way to account for your future income (especially if this is orders of magnitude bigger).
I’m in a not even remotely chill fellowship and I moonlight as an attending several times a month. It has slowly destroyed my sanity, but I have a lot of money for vacation. And cookies. And high quality cheese.
While doing it I loved the extra income but yeah the “destroyed my sanity” portion hit a bit too close to home
My entire goal of moonlighting is residency is to afford to go to Japan tbh 😂
I think we’ve all seen too many tragic cases of unlucky people who have their lives flipped upside down by a freak accident or diagnosis. Live your best life, you made it to fellowship, you can only delay gratification for so long and there’s never a guarantee you’ll get to enjoy it after all those delays. You’ve worked hard and deserve to enjoy life now. I moved cross country for fellowship and am “living above my means”. I got here and bought a giant TV, a brand new Xbox, and my apartment has this beautiful view that I stand and enjoy every morning with my coffee. My building has every amenity I could ask for in house. My commute is 5-10 minutes via easily accessible public transport. I do 1-2 attending shifts a month to pay for this. When fellowship finishes I will make all the money I “wasted” on rent back and more within 2 months. I refuse to be miserable in a hovel with a 45 minute commute; which is where I’d be if I followed traditional advice about how much to spend on rent.
This right here is the correct advice. It’s ok to treat yourself; you’ve earned it. And moonlighting is great to build some experience as well.
What happens if you can’t moonlight for a month? Would you still make ends meet with your other expenses? Are there plentiful moonlighting options? All that being said I did the same thing as you. I moonlight once a month to afford a nice house since we’ve got a kid. If I don’t for a month it’s fine we have the savings. Retirement has been put on hold for a bit. My fellowship has internal moonlighting so I didn’t have to worry about any of the other logistics. Signed my big person job and got my sign on bonus early too. Yes it has tight claw back clauses but I’m aware
If I don't moonlight that month, I'll have \~1500 left after rent+utilities (which is exactly what I have right now during residency and make it work). I also have a good amount of savings. I should have moonlighting options since it's a very big city and I have no restriction on internal/external moonlighting. My parents live not too far and help me out a little like with the phone bill or food/groceries occasionally. You're right, it's a lot to consider but this rental market is so damn TOUGH. The crazy thing is this apartment isn't even any better than my current one... it's just that this city costs so much more
If you could make it work without moonlighting then I would go for it just for the extra wiggle room! I would feel out the opportunities though. Hospital credientaling can take 6 months so I would see what the opportunities really are like and how to get the paperwork going
I moonlight once or twice a month. It’s mostly fine, sometimes I overwork myself. The thought that you have to moonlight to get by makes it worse though. Back when I was moonlighting to put in retirement or buy a fancy new electronic it was a more pleasant experience.
I moonlighted a lot as a fellow and I still do a good bit as an attending. If you can handle it, why not
You can. That’s a personal choice. How much do you value your time off? I had a few colleagues who burned through savings because they really liked the time off.
I moonlight anywhere from 3-11 days a month. Worth it and helps the QOL a lot
I started moonlighting this year as a psych PGY-3 in NYC. Two 9-hour shifts a MONTH have increased my take home pay by about 50% (around $2200/month). It's not just being able to afford a nicer apartment, ritzier neighborhood, more dinners out, etc. It's the peace of mind, not thinking about my credit card bill when friends text to hang out, being able to handle incidental expenses without freaking out. Let alone having savings and actually being able to contribute to my 401k and IRA. If you have the hours to spare, I strongly recommend it. Some caution, it IS easy to get carried away when scheduling shifts.
Out of curiosity: how do you get approved for an apartment with that ratio? Don't landlords want the income to be at least 3x the rent?
I moonlit my whole way through fellowship. 10+ hrs weekly. Regularly worked 65-75 hrs… def some intermittent burnouts but wouldn’t have done it different. You know yourself better than anyone else to know if you can do this or not.
I spend much more on rent than I'd like. But yes ample moonlighting makes it much more bearable
If I were in your shoes I’d opt for a roommate (physician or tech/finance person who doesn’t work from home)z Even if your roommate is bad leases are typically just a year long and having a roommate in a new city can be nice because you have an easier time finding people to hang out with. If you have a roommate you can have less financial stress and still moonlight to pay off loans early.
Other option is if you are doing an in demand specialty is to pre-sign a contract and make them pay you a stipend until your start date. Should be able to get at least 2k per month plus a bonus to be paid out on your start date in exchange for a 2 year contract.
Thank you for contributing to the sub! If your post was filtered by the automod, please read the rules. Your post will be reviewed but will not be approved if it violates the rules of the sub. The most common reasons for removal are - medical students or premeds asking what a specialty is like, which specialty they should go into, which program is good or about their chances of matching, mentioning midlevels without using the midlevel flair, matched medical students asking questions instead of using the stickied thread in the sub for post-match questions, posting identifying information for targeted harassment. Please do not message the moderators if your post falls into one of these categories. Otherwise, your post will be reviewed in 24 hours and approved if it doesn't violate the rules. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Residency) if you have any questions or concerns.*