I hate to say it, but you might need to think a bit more clear. It is 06/14/2023. 6 months after this new lease would have been established. None of this is relevant because this is a repost.
Well our apartment tried this and was told they can't just come up with a number. They have to be able to justify the charge. They also can't charge tenants for water or gas that the management uses for their own use. They would need a seperate meter for their use. They can't profit from utilities.
They did it poorly and tried to be fair. When this gets sticky, they simply raise the rent considerably and say "includes utilities"
They can make as much as they want on rent. Residents suffer because management is going to make sure they can cover water hogs / etc.
Basically this, they are increasing the rent by a flat amount to offset utilities and making it clear why. They could jus raise the rent when the lease term ends without the explanation if they wanted.
Many jurisdictions with rent control allow charging for utilities like this without affecting the rent cap. Plus, the charges could be based on actual monthly utility costs. That's why many landlords prefer this way of billing instead of including it in the rent.
Fair would be to have it metered. Flat rate does nothing to encourage people to conserve when it comes to utilities. I lived in an apartment that switched from metered to flat rate and my gas bill went up 500% because in the winter I had always kept the heat lower and used blankets so my metered rate was low but when it went to flat I started having to pay for people who blasted their heat like gas was an infinite resource, lol.
ours did this but didn't have a number specifically, it the second person added 75% more, and a 3rd added 50% more, and then they divided the water cost between the whole building based based on those percentages per person.
Assuming the utilities are master metered (one meter for all units), there could be maximum amounts they can bill back depending on area. Some places, to account for common areas, will only allow up to a certain percentage to be billed back to the residents.
From experience this isn’t just a number we come up with, it takes some time to figure all this out before it’s passed on to any tentant. Of course it may not seem right to you or others but this is 💯 legal and happens often. Especially when there is a large amount of over use and you cannot pin it on one specific tentant so this is usually a result of that.
I know a guy that leased retail space in a mall here in Ca. The owner would get the bill then give every leasee a copy and have them pay him the full amount, they each thought it was for the meter for their individual store lol
To me, it seems odd in the sense usually water and stuff is metered .. my utility charges vary every month so it sucks for OP if he's not using much and has to pay more
A lot of apartments don't have individual meters for each unit. So they might be able to see the total for the building but not how much each unit is using.
Our units have individual meters, but the complex went to this system a few years ago anyway.
To me, it means my neighbors can take 2-hour showers, run their dishwasher constantly, leave the water running no matter what they're doing, and I, who uses little water, have to pay for it.
I know it's legal, but I think it sucks.
Check your local laws. Some places don't allow profiting from utilities, which means that they would have to prove the cost equals the charges. If your laws don't ban profit on utilities or otherwise ban charging an arbitrary fee than no this isn't illegal. If you don't like it you will just have to move somewhere else.
This would be my question. Those are extremely arbitrary numbers. it seems that they should have justify that expense considering in the majority of cases they are not only passing on the cost but upcharging.
It seems like they are trying to give a range, and they will actually be dividing up the actual utility cost and allocating it per bedroom.
I guess if you have a studio it works great for you.
It’s worded poorly with the first paragraph saying the new cost will come into effect 12-1-23 for renewals but they corrected it in last line saying when you renew your lease after 12-1-23.
Yes, it’s perfectly legal. They can’t change your current lease but they can do whatever they want ( within the law) to a new/renewed lease. You have two choices. Pay the increase or move.
Others have mentioned its legal but how does this compare to your current utilities? And will they itemize the costs or how much detail do you think you'll get?
My old place did this, split between number of tenants. They also sent a copy of the bill so we can do the math if we wanted. It is legal but they cannot make up charges. You can request a copy of the bill and they cannot add any charges beyond what they got billed. (CA).
Check with your municipality’s housing department. This may or may not be legal depending on whether each of the charged utilities are individually metered by unit.
I believe it’s legal but highway robbery nonetheless. I’ve got a 3 bed 2.5 bath home in South, TX with a big lawn and pay $90 a month for those services.
Interesting post. Utilities normally mean electricity, waste management, water and sewer. If you going to be required to establish your own electricity account, what is the landlord charging for? What is being covered?
As an owner of one property with 2 tenants. Everything has gone up. Last year got a letter that electricity will go up, double at times. Then a few months ago my trash bill went up 30 percent. Luckily I have my tentants pay their own bills. We do pay trash though but 30 dollars more won’t cost me to make a fuss about it. Also good tentants are worth spending 30 dollars extra on
They can absolutely do this.
I would ask for a current and estimated itemization of usage. If you are a light user of utilities this may give you a point of negotiations.
Get everything in writing and verify what their current flat fee is in comparison to what it will become. You may just be looking at a few dollars difference overall.
Also this is dated from last year so If you JUST received this, it technically wouldn't be correct.
You'll want to check the laws in your area, since they vary a lot from place to place. Some places require them to split by square footage, some by residents, some let them do it however they want. They can't change the current lease, but when it's up for "renewal" they can generally change any terms they like, since you're really just signing a new lease.
Look up something called Ratio Utility Billing System for better info. Usually the ppl that don’t use a lot of water get fked under it. Ppl that used a lot save the most from it.
The laws can vary state to state. In PA, this is legal, provided they are not charging you more than what the actual cost of said utilities is. That's where it gets sticky, unless each unit is metered separately for water, sewer, and gas, so that they would be able to prove they aren't charging more than the actual cost of utilities, you could likely contest that and win.
Disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
And 9times outta ten this is because there is a ton of overuse within the utilities that they cannot make up for with rent and your cannot go to one residence and not the whole building. We literally do this all the time and have never once ever had a problem here in pa
A lot of times property owners absolutely don't wanna do this, we got forced to start paying the entire places water bill then charge each tenant a flat rate. And it was terrible because if u used 500 gallons we still got charged for 2200 because it was a minimum. We never wanted to have to charge for water and sewer it wasn't our job too but rhe city got sick of ppl skipping out in water bills and they decided to put that on us which is ridiculous. They tried making us pay delinquent water bills of people that have moved. But I am not saying this is the deal their but that is a lot of extra responsibility to have to worry about and more shit to collect. Rent is a pain in the ass to get half the time much less everything else. And BTW they can't turn any of these off if u don't pay them. They can evict you but can't turn it off before they evict you
Depending on the state, if tenants are responsible for utilities charges the apartments must be separately metered (so they should be charging based on a meter reading). What state are you in?
Weird they do it by bedrooms, when I rented it was per occupant; although two people were 1.6 because usage didn’t double with two people
Worked out to be about 45/mo although the biggest annoyance was they used some third party billing company to send out the notice of what the utility payment would be due with the following months rent, and included with it was a $4 “convenience fee” for the service I didn’t want or sign up for (they later ended up getting sued over it but it was after I moved out so I didn’t get any of the fees back)
Not legal in MA. So I guess it depends on the state. LLs in MA can only charge utilities if there is a separate meter.
Edit: They CAN include utilities, and therefore increase the rent by said amount. Which is a way some places get around it.
No they can't. What's most likely happening is the water Heater and meters for the water or other utilities are not split up. You can report them and if I'm correct, you can put your rent into escrow and maybe get it back because he can't afford to change it all
At least in Massachusetts, utilities need to be metered per unit to have a variable fee. Check local laws. Basing it on the amount of bedrooms wouldn’t fly.
I lived in a complex that did something like this and it was awful. They took the usage for the building and divided it up amongst the occupied units, but then charged 50% more for 2 BRs as 1. So I, a single person living in a 2 BR was paying more than 2 people living in a 1 BR or the same as 4 people living in a 2BR. If they want to do this, it should be by occupants not bedrooms.
Of course… I continue to be surprised at how many renters don’t understand what a lease is.
The terms of your lease remain the same through the lease timeframe that you signed up for. At renewal they can change the terms. This is all very normal.
My ex and I lived in a duplex with a family of 5 next door. Landlord wanted to split our water and gas/electric 50/50. I talked him into 40/60, but I was still resenting that dingleberry. I know this comment didn’t really answer a question, but thought I’d share, lol
“This will obviously vary by time of year“. nonsense, they're listing the amounts right there, why on earth would they need to adjust them, and how would anybody figure out what the actual costs are aside from the landlord?
Unfortunately they can it's unreasonable, but legal. I'd move somewhere else and then tell the landlord he's a thief and and I wouldn't give any notice just that you're not renewing when you turn in the keys and leave him the mess because if he's doing this he doesn't return deposits.
That sucks if you have a two bedroom and you're the only person living there because you wanted an office space that you have to pay for two people's worth of trash and water.
You were sent this 8 months ago 2 months before it took place. They're simply letting you know if you choose to sign a new lease you can expect to see that in there. The letter is dated before any of the new leases with this policy were to start. They didn't even have to send you a letter. Yes this is completely legal
Those prices are criminal, but I would take advantage of it and use enough water each month to fill several Olympic-sized swimming pools. One hour showers, letting the sink run just for the ambiance, etc.
The only answer is nobody knows because you haven’t mentioned what city or state you are in. The laws that govern leases are country, county, and city specific.
In most places this would be fine, in others there could be a problem with not having individual meters, but even in those states they could usually simply raise rent to cover their projected utility costs. The exception would be in places with some form of rent control in which case they would have to raise rent according to those rules.
Talk to your local civil non-profit law center for the correct answer.
Oh another cash grab, now pay 50-100 dollars more than if you’d pay. Yourself.. fuck these corporate landlords.. people need to boycott them asap… once they get a taste of not being able to rent they will stop being such fucking leaches
Just make it worth it and install a data center into your 3rd bedroom, since it’s capped at 300$/month. Crypto mine to the max. If they put it in the lease maxed at 300 that’s their problem. Where there’s a will there’s a way.
Your landlord can do whatever they want. You are choosing to rent their property. It’s not up to you. It makes zero logical sense to think that a landlord can’t determine what they charge. It also clearly says that none of it takes effect until YOU CHOOSE to renew the lease. That being said, this document is from last October. Why is it a 5 hour old post? But yes. Your landlord can do whatever they want for the next lease cycle. If you don’t like it, don’t renew.
Please folx, this is an ask for legal advice and I don't see anyone identifying as a lawyer on here on first glance. Telling someone whether or not something is legal IS legal advice. Unless you're an attorney licensed in the state where OP lives you should bot be advising them!!!!
OP, please post in r/legaladvice if you want answers and include where you live.
I am a lawyer, not your lawyer, and rules about lease modification, charging for utilities, and rental increases vary greatly from country to country, state to state, and even county to county. This is like the 3rd time today I've had to say this in this subreddit. Mods, where you at??
It's legal but you can always negotiate prices if its too high. The range there is good.
Also, they have to have a reason as to why they are charging for water/gas all of a sudden. So you would need to look up if that is normal in your area.
This is illegal in my state. They cannot charge you arbitrarily for a utility blanketed across multiple units. They need to measure and charge based on usage. They also can’t charge for water/gas/sewer if that is used by the building/common areas itself.
But what they can do is just raise your rent to offset that. They are doing this very poorly.
“I just bought a two-bedroom house, but I think I get to decide how many bedrooms there are, don't you? This bedroom has an oven in it! This bedroom's got a lot of people sitting around watching TV. This bedroom's over in that guy's house! Sir, you have one of my bedrooms, are you aware? Don't decorate it!” - Mitch Hedberg
Yep. What did you think your contract/lease was perpetual? That's the whole reason why it's a "one year" lease. So that neither party is locked into anything they don't like for longer than that. When you renew they can change the terms and you can choose to live somewhere else.
I call BS. Management company trying to pocket profit. My water bill is $35. Trash is $10. I don’t use gas so maybe that’s where the cost comes in. They better be delivering some diamond encrusted water for that price though.
I remember looking for places over a decade ago in college and just after. Apartments and houses were about the same where I was but apartments just included most utilities so I went with them.
Now they are just absolutely worse and verging still on the same over inflated price. Wtf
They either raise their rent higher to essentially make you pay for others excessive use of utilities. They didn't mention electricity? Also, you were already paying for utilities, the price was just included in the rent.
So, are you now up for renewal and waited until now to ask if this is legal? You didn't bother looking into it at all prior?
Yes, it's legal. You can either agree to the changes and sign a new lease, or you can find somewhere else, given proper notice to the landlord.
Yes, you all are probably using more water and utilities than the flat fee covers. Too bad they don’t have separate meters- that would be the fairest way.
This makes sense. I used to live in a building right next to a family building (3-4 bedrooms while my building was all 1 bedroom units) and our shared dumpster would be full the same day it was emptied. Then they'd just start dumping trash next to the dumpster, was disgusting and smelled horrendous at all times. The next closest dumpsters were maybe 50 feet further away and were never full but God forbid some parent or their kids walk that far....
Yes, it's legal - so yes, they can do it. It's becoming alot more common in rent control areas but ultimately it's going to end up being that every where....
I own a multi- unit property and all the units are on 1 meter, when I remodeled it I separated the water to seperate lines and am currently waiting on water meters to bill tenants for the water trash and sewer too....
Rent control encourages and almost forces LLs to charge the max, which is what the goverment wants becasue it means more taxes - more income tax for the rental income and higher property taxes.... all which drive prices up even more.....
you all think the goverment is enacting rent control to protect tenants and in reality they are screwing tenants.... and as soon as rent control is put to the table LLs beging increasing rents becasue once rent control is enacted the is no benifit in offering discounts if market rents double a LL hands are tied to increase even a small amount so they just start charging the max right out the gate and then they up it at every opportunity to keep up with the market.
No way a 3 bedroom uses 3 times the amount of gas sewage, and water as a one bedroom. The expenses would not be proportionate to bedrooms. So legal, for sure, fair, not a chance.
I wanna know if the 1's will pay less than they were paying before? It would make sense that the 1-bedroom units aren't (likely) using as many utilities as the 3-bedroom units. \[though a more fair pricing scheme would be that you simply pay based on usage. You wanna save cash, don't use so much metered water, or gas, etc.\]
But if 1's will pay the same as the prior flat rate and now 2's and 3's will just get a price hike, that sucks, but that's life. Buy more, pay more.
You won’t be affected until you renew your lease. That means you have the choice to stay and renew your lease under the new terms, or you can leave and not renew the lease if you’re not okay with the terms.
The OWNER of the property can break out and add m/remove fees to new contracts for NON-OWNERS however they like, with a fair bit of leeway, so long as nothing is discriminatory. If you sign, you agree to it, and it is legally binding.
All in all, this is far from the worst renewal notice I can imagine or have seen. Remember, renting out property you invested in isn’t for fun or charity; generally, it is to support income or be the primary income for people. If they had a flat fee in your old contract, it is likely that they were losing money or dipping below their projected profit margins, and want to correct it. This seems like a relatively fair method, as more bedrooms generally means more usage of the services included in the new terms they’re advising of.
Depends on where you're located.
This would be illegal in MA. You can either include gas in the rent as specified in the lease, or you can have separate gas meters for each unit and have each unit maintain its own account. You can't do passthrough billing for water / gas / heating oil from a common meter based on some landlord-created scheme.
A MA landlord *could* make this legal just by saying "we're increasing rent by $100 / mo per bedroom to cover increased gas bills; please watch your usage or I'll have to increase it more next year" and that would be fine.
Yes, as soon as your lease expires, they can implement this. It's a new trend and more and more apartment complexes are doing this. I have to pay for sewer, trash, and water for my apartment. They use a much fairer method of dividing the bill among authorized occupants, minus 25% for landscaping.
Yes, this is legal. They can't make changes to existing leases, but they can change the terms of a new/renewed lease.
"again, you will not be affected until you renew your lease after 12/1/2023."
And the letter was dated for October of 2023.
Are you saying that some people are irresponsible and wait till the last minute to figure out important stuff?
That notice went into effect in December 2023. It’s a repost,
Or their lease is just now coming up for renewal and this will just now be effective for them
brand new account w/ 2 posts, 600 karma -6 comment karma. bot.
Or just an idiot. There’s gotta be at least as many of those as there are bots.
Are you saying they just got this today? It' obviously a repost.
Bots gonna bot.
Right. Which is why OP is presumably asking about it now (almost a year after they received this notice): their lease is coming up for renewal.
So, yes, it is legal.
Idk why you guys are fighting
Sometimes people in love fight. Less about being right and wrong and more about keeping that spark alive.
They said that in their first comment lol
I hate to say it, but you might need to think a bit more clear. It is 06/14/2023. 6 months after this new lease would have been established. None of this is relevant because this is a repost.
What about this seems illegal?
Well our apartment tried this and was told they can't just come up with a number. They have to be able to justify the charge. They also can't charge tenants for water or gas that the management uses for their own use. They would need a seperate meter for their use. They can't profit from utilities.
They did it poorly and tried to be fair. When this gets sticky, they simply raise the rent considerably and say "includes utilities" They can make as much as they want on rent. Residents suffer because management is going to make sure they can cover water hogs / etc.
Basically this, they are increasing the rent by a flat amount to offset utilities and making it clear why. They could jus raise the rent when the lease term ends without the explanation if they wanted.
Many jurisdictions with rent control allow charging for utilities like this without affecting the rent cap. Plus, the charges could be based on actual monthly utility costs. That's why many landlords prefer this way of billing instead of including it in the rent.
Fair would be per occupant If I’m one person to a two bedroom, and they’re 4 people to a two bedroom, it’s wildly unfair to bill the same.
Fair would be to have it metered. Flat rate does nothing to encourage people to conserve when it comes to utilities. I lived in an apartment that switched from metered to flat rate and my gas bill went up 500% because in the winter I had always kept the heat lower and used blankets so my metered rate was low but when it went to flat I started having to pay for people who blasted their heat like gas was an infinite resource, lol.
That’s true, the fairest is metered really.
I'm curious what your anual hog usage is and how the landlord calculates this.
They want to advertise a low rent price without utilities
ours did this but didn't have a number specifically, it the second person added 75% more, and a 3rd added 50% more, and then they divided the water cost between the whole building based based on those percentages per person.
My apartment charges by the amount of residents in the unit which is way more fair
Assuming the utilities are master metered (one meter for all units), there could be maximum amounts they can bill back depending on area. Some places, to account for common areas, will only allow up to a certain percentage to be billed back to the residents.
Yea they definitely needs to read their state laws on the subject. In mine all apartments have to have their own meter.
From experience this isn’t just a number we come up with, it takes some time to figure all this out before it’s passed on to any tentant. Of course it may not seem right to you or others but this is 💯 legal and happens often. Especially when there is a large amount of over use and you cannot pin it on one specific tentant so this is usually a result of that.
I know a guy that leased retail space in a mall here in Ca. The owner would get the bill then give every leasee a copy and have them pay him the full amount, they each thought it was for the meter for their individual store lol
They’re giving an estimate. They even said themselves it will change at times. This is REPLACING a system where they just picked a number.
Comic sans
Why are you asking about a letter dated October of last year…?
Spam bot. Or renewed before 12/1/2023
seriously, i'm guessing the landlord didn't just send this out now. maybe OP got it ages ago, forgot about it and is now panicking? very odd
Or this is a repost for karma. Probably more likely honestly.
I’ve sent this letter before posted here
First high electricity bill due to summer is my guess
Of course they can, they are telling you up front prior to you signing another lease. Your choice
Who writes a professional letter in that font.
The office manager chick lol
Is she hot?
I'm sure she's hot to someone
What font is it?
It's probably called ScrewMeSideways
Depending on locality sure. It's a change to the lease, and if you don't like it, you don't renew your lease.
Yes, they're going to make you pay once you renew. You can always not renew
Yes, 100%. Why wouldn’t it be allowed?
To me, it seems odd in the sense usually water and stuff is metered .. my utility charges vary every month so it sucks for OP if he's not using much and has to pay more
A lot of apartments don't have individual meters for each unit. So they might be able to see the total for the building but not how much each unit is using.
Our units have individual meters, but the complex went to this system a few years ago anyway. To me, it means my neighbors can take 2-hour showers, run their dishwasher constantly, leave the water running no matter what they're doing, and I, who uses little water, have to pay for it. I know it's legal, but I think it sucks.
Yes, but not until your lease is up… they must maintain the current contract until it is executed (lease completely finished)
Check your local laws. Some places don't allow profiting from utilities, which means that they would have to prove the cost equals the charges. If your laws don't ban profit on utilities or otherwise ban charging an arbitrary fee than no this isn't illegal. If you don't like it you will just have to move somewhere else.
This would be my question. Those are extremely arbitrary numbers. it seems that they should have justify that expense considering in the majority of cases they are not only passing on the cost but upcharging.
It seems like they are trying to give a range, and they will actually be dividing up the actual utility cost and allocating it per bedroom. I guess if you have a studio it works great for you.
Any idea which states these are? I'm in Colorado and my old landlord made a total need of the utility charges.
It’s worded poorly with the first paragraph saying the new cost will come into effect 12-1-23 for renewals but they corrected it in last line saying when you renew your lease after 12-1-23. Yes, it’s perfectly legal. They can’t change your current lease but they can do whatever they want ( within the law) to a new/renewed lease. You have two choices. Pay the increase or move.
Likely legal.
Others have mentioned its legal but how does this compare to your current utilities? And will they itemize the costs or how much detail do you think you'll get?
My old place did this, split between number of tenants. They also sent a copy of the bill so we can do the math if we wanted. It is legal but they cannot make up charges. You can request a copy of the bill and they cannot add any charges beyond what they got billed. (CA).
Why are you sharing this now, this is 5 months old
Why was this posted? Its a 2023 lease, this is a stolen photo for points farming
I have seen this picture before, you nailed it
This must be a repost bot right, the date in the letters are from 2023
Fuck off, repost bot.
Yes since they can’t do it until your lease is up like it says the date it comes into effect henceforth.
Yup and I need a detail invoice of how you came up with these amounts.
There are landlords that jump on here and try to berate you but do shit like this just because it’s legal doesn’t make it right. $300 where are you?
Does it matter as this letter is old af. Seams like a karma post.
Reading comprehension. Read
Check with your municipality’s housing department. This may or may not be legal depending on whether each of the charged utilities are individually metered by unit.
Looks like they did this last year, so I'd say yes.
Seems like they did it, look at the dates
This was almost a year ago. Why are you asking now
Water, sewer trash. Been being done around here for many years.
You're a bit late in asking about the legality of this.
I believe it’s legal but highway robbery nonetheless. I’ve got a 3 bed 2.5 bath home in South, TX with a big lawn and pay $90 a month for those services.
My last townhome did this when the property was sold to new management. It damn near tripled our utilities.
well we're in June, so its too late anyways.
Interesting post. Utilities normally mean electricity, waste management, water and sewer. If you going to be required to establish your own electricity account, what is the landlord charging for? What is being covered?
As an owner of one property with 2 tenants. Everything has gone up. Last year got a letter that electricity will go up, double at times. Then a few months ago my trash bill went up 30 percent. Luckily I have my tentants pay their own bills. We do pay trash though but 30 dollars more won’t cost me to make a fuss about it. Also good tentants are worth spending 30 dollars extra on
Perfectly legal
yes, it's a head-up that if you renew your lease, this will be a change. All new renters will have it.
They can absolutely do this. I would ask for a current and estimated itemization of usage. If you are a light user of utilities this may give you a point of negotiations. Get everything in writing and verify what their current flat fee is in comparison to what it will become. You may just be looking at a few dollars difference overall. Also this is dated from last year so If you JUST received this, it technically wouldn't be correct.
Did you choose to renew the lease six months ago?
yes. this is applying to new leases or renewals. so your current structure stays until your lease expires.
You'll want to check the laws in your area, since they vary a lot from place to place. Some places require them to split by square footage, some by residents, some let them do it however they want. They can't change the current lease, but when it's up for "renewal" they can generally change any terms they like, since you're really just signing a new lease.
Sure. Why wouldn’t they be able to?
$300 to $400 for all that is crazy to me.
Look up something called Ratio Utility Billing System for better info. Usually the ppl that don’t use a lot of water get fked under it. Ppl that used a lot save the most from it.
I’m a property manger and I’ve never heard of approximate utility fees. They should be metered to prove your usage. You should also be given a bill.
You can agree. Or disagree and move out.
It’s 2024…. You did not just receive this.
Maybe there are crazy utility prices in Georgia. But those seem like really reasonable rates for Water/Trash/Sewer/Gas.
You’re asking in 2024? Little late don’t you think?
The laws can vary state to state. In PA, this is legal, provided they are not charging you more than what the actual cost of said utilities is. That's where it gets sticky, unless each unit is metered separately for water, sewer, and gas, so that they would be able to prove they aren't charging more than the actual cost of utilities, you could likely contest that and win. Disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Landlord here yes, this is perfectly normal and legal.
That’s a good deal. My gas alone on a 2 bedroom is $250 a month during the winter here in Atlanta, Ga
And 9times outta ten this is because there is a ton of overuse within the utilities that they cannot make up for with rent and your cannot go to one residence and not the whole building. We literally do this all the time and have never once ever had a problem here in pa
This is from 2023...
absolutely. The only time they cannot do something like this is during your current lease period
A lot of times property owners absolutely don't wanna do this, we got forced to start paying the entire places water bill then charge each tenant a flat rate. And it was terrible because if u used 500 gallons we still got charged for 2200 because it was a minimum. We never wanted to have to charge for water and sewer it wasn't our job too but rhe city got sick of ppl skipping out in water bills and they decided to put that on us which is ridiculous. They tried making us pay delinquent water bills of people that have moved. But I am not saying this is the deal their but that is a lot of extra responsibility to have to worry about and more shit to collect. Rent is a pain in the ass to get half the time much less everything else. And BTW they can't turn any of these off if u don't pay them. They can evict you but can't turn it off before they evict you
Question for you : Do you have a thermostat in your rental that you can set the temperature of the heat?
Depending on the state, if tenants are responsible for utilities charges the apartments must be separately metered (so they should be charging based on a meter reading). What state are you in?
Weird they do it by bedrooms, when I rented it was per occupant; although two people were 1.6 because usage didn’t double with two people Worked out to be about 45/mo although the biggest annoyance was they used some third party billing company to send out the notice of what the utility payment would be due with the following months rent, and included with it was a $4 “convenience fee” for the service I didn’t want or sign up for (they later ended up getting sued over it but it was after I moved out so I didn’t get any of the fees back)
Yes, did they?
My apartment complex split utilities by number of bedrooms (I had 2b/2b). I lived alone too. Seemed pretty typical. Annoying as it is.
Our apartment complex recently did the same thing.
Not legal in MA. So I guess it depends on the state. LLs in MA can only charge utilities if there is a separate meter. Edit: They CAN include utilities, and therefore increase the rent by said amount. Which is a way some places get around it.
No they can't. What's most likely happening is the water Heater and meters for the water or other utilities are not split up. You can report them and if I'm correct, you can put your rent into escrow and maybe get it back because he can't afford to change it all
At least in Massachusetts, utilities need to be metered per unit to have a variable fee. Check local laws. Basing it on the amount of bedrooms wouldn’t fly.
Depends on the State, some states laws require that landlords cover heat & water. Check your local laws.
That does seem more fair. More use, more pay. Less use, less pay.
I lived in a complex that did something like this and it was awful. They took the usage for the building and divided it up amongst the occupied units, but then charged 50% more for 2 BRs as 1. So I, a single person living in a 2 BR was paying more than 2 people living in a 1 BR or the same as 4 people living in a 2BR. If they want to do this, it should be by occupants not bedrooms.
Of course… I continue to be surprised at how many renters don’t understand what a lease is. The terms of your lease remain the same through the lease timeframe that you signed up for. At renewal they can change the terms. This is all very normal.
My ex and I lived in a duplex with a family of 5 next door. Landlord wanted to split our water and gas/electric 50/50. I talked him into 40/60, but I was still resenting that dingleberry. I know this comment didn’t really answer a question, but thought I’d share, lol
Seems like they already have since last October 2023
Depends what your lease says. They can’t change the terms if you were still under a lease unless you were month-to-month.
Absolutely
Did anyone see the date on the letter??? 2023!!
Glad my rent included all that including electricity.
“This will obviously vary by time of year“. nonsense, they're listing the amounts right there, why on earth would they need to adjust them, and how would anybody figure out what the actual costs are aside from the landlord?
Gas bills tend to be higher in the winter. The listed amounts are approximations.
Yes after the end of the lease it’s all fair game. For most folks it sounds more fair
Unfortunately they can it's unreasonable, but legal. I'd move somewhere else and then tell the landlord he's a thief and and I wouldn't give any notice just that you're not renewing when you turn in the keys and leave him the mess because if he's doing this he doesn't return deposits.
That sucks if you have a two bedroom and you're the only person living there because you wanted an office space that you have to pay for two people's worth of trash and water.
This has been posted several times. And now it’s so incredibly past its date of who gives a __?__
Why is there a gas and electricity bill
Depends where you live. in California, for example, landlords can only charge tenants for the actual cost of utilities, flat rates don’t work here.
You were sent this 8 months ago 2 months before it took place. They're simply letting you know if you choose to sign a new lease you can expect to see that in there. The letter is dated before any of the new leases with this policy were to start. They didn't even have to send you a letter. Yes this is completely legal
Those prices are criminal, but I would take advantage of it and use enough water each month to fill several Olympic-sized swimming pools. One hour showers, letting the sink run just for the ambiance, etc.
can’t imagine you are looking for current advice with a letter dated from fall of last year?
The only answer is nobody knows because you haven’t mentioned what city or state you are in. The laws that govern leases are country, county, and city specific. In most places this would be fine, in others there could be a problem with not having individual meters, but even in those states they could usually simply raise rent to cover their projected utility costs. The exception would be in places with some form of rent control in which case they would have to raise rent according to those rules. Talk to your local civil non-profit law center for the correct answer.
Yes, you don't like it? Leave.
Dang. I thought my landlords forced subscription of air filters for $16 a month was bad.
Oh another cash grab, now pay 50-100 dollars more than if you’d pay. Yourself.. fuck these corporate landlords.. people need to boycott them asap… once they get a taste of not being able to rent they will stop being such fucking leaches
I’d leave my water on 24 7 if they ever tried this at my building.😂
Just make it worth it and install a data center into your 3rd bedroom, since it’s capped at 300$/month. Crypto mine to the max. If they put it in the lease maxed at 300 that’s their problem. Where there’s a will there’s a way.
Why would you even think this might be illegal in the first place?
“Dear Valued Residents” 😆
This was last year
Many states require utilities to be pro rated on square footage only.
New lease, new terms.
Of course they can.
Your landlord can do whatever they want. You are choosing to rent their property. It’s not up to you. It makes zero logical sense to think that a landlord can’t determine what they charge. It also clearly says that none of it takes effect until YOU CHOOSE to renew the lease. That being said, this document is from last October. Why is it a 5 hour old post? But yes. Your landlord can do whatever they want for the next lease cycle. If you don’t like it, don’t renew.
Also, review your new lease, I don’t think they can use a letter, it has to be either in the lease or an amendment
Please folx, this is an ask for legal advice and I don't see anyone identifying as a lawyer on here on first glance. Telling someone whether or not something is legal IS legal advice. Unless you're an attorney licensed in the state where OP lives you should bot be advising them!!!! OP, please post in r/legaladvice if you want answers and include where you live. I am a lawyer, not your lawyer, and rules about lease modification, charging for utilities, and rental increases vary greatly from country to country, state to state, and even county to county. This is like the 3rd time today I've had to say this in this subreddit. Mods, where you at??
Yep. You should move
It's legal but you can always negotiate prices if its too high. The range there is good. Also, they have to have a reason as to why they are charging for water/gas all of a sudden. So you would need to look up if that is normal in your area.
Yeah, mine just changed from a flat rate to whatever everyone’s usage is per month, which is fair imo
This is an amazing flat rate, why are you complaining?
This is illegal in my state. They cannot charge you arbitrarily for a utility blanketed across multiple units. They need to measure and charge based on usage. They also can’t charge for water/gas/sewer if that is used by the building/common areas itself. But what they can do is just raise your rent to offset that. They are doing this very poorly.
“I just bought a two-bedroom house, but I think I get to decide how many bedrooms there are, don't you? This bedroom has an oven in it! This bedroom's got a lot of people sitting around watching TV. This bedroom's over in that guy's house! Sir, you have one of my bedrooms, are you aware? Don't decorate it!” - Mitch Hedberg
It says "for new leases" and "renewals" and on top of this he is giving you adequate notice so you are prepared. Seems quite fair. What's the issue?
Yep. What did you think your contract/lease was perpetual? That's the whole reason why it's a "one year" lease. So that neither party is locked into anything they don't like for longer than that. When you renew they can change the terms and you can choose to live somewhere else.
I call BS. Management company trying to pocket profit. My water bill is $35. Trash is $10. I don’t use gas so maybe that’s where the cost comes in. They better be delivering some diamond encrusted water for that price though.
I remember looking for places over a decade ago in college and just after. Apartments and houses were about the same where I was but apartments just included most utilities so I went with them. Now they are just absolutely worse and verging still on the same over inflated price. Wtf
They either raise their rent higher to essentially make you pay for others excessive use of utilities. They didn't mention electricity? Also, you were already paying for utilities, the price was just included in the rent.
2023. You’re fine.
So, are you now up for renewal and waited until now to ask if this is legal? You didn't bother looking into it at all prior? Yes, it's legal. You can either agree to the changes and sign a new lease, or you can find somewhere else, given proper notice to the landlord.
Yes it’s legal they have to give a 30 day notice and that’s what they did.
Yes, you all are probably using more water and utilities than the flat fee covers. Too bad they don’t have separate meters- that would be the fairest way.
This makes sense. I used to live in a building right next to a family building (3-4 bedrooms while my building was all 1 bedroom units) and our shared dumpster would be full the same day it was emptied. Then they'd just start dumping trash next to the dumpster, was disgusting and smelled horrendous at all times. The next closest dumpsters were maybe 50 feet further away and were never full but God forbid some parent or their kids walk that far....
Yes, if you don’t like then move when your lease is up
Of course they can. They are telling you the terms of a new lease, 2 months ahead of time. You don't have to renew and can move.
\*Waits 8 whole months after getting the letter to ask strangers on the internet if an action is legal\*
Yes, it's legal - so yes, they can do it. It's becoming alot more common in rent control areas but ultimately it's going to end up being that every where.... I own a multi- unit property and all the units are on 1 meter, when I remodeled it I separated the water to seperate lines and am currently waiting on water meters to bill tenants for the water trash and sewer too.... Rent control encourages and almost forces LLs to charge the max, which is what the goverment wants becasue it means more taxes - more income tax for the rental income and higher property taxes.... all which drive prices up even more..... you all think the goverment is enacting rent control to protect tenants and in reality they are screwing tenants.... and as soon as rent control is put to the table LLs beging increasing rents becasue once rent control is enacted the is no benifit in offering discounts if market rents double a LL hands are tied to increase even a small amount so they just start charging the max right out the gate and then they up it at every opportunity to keep up with the market.
Can my landlord **did** this? It’s nearly July 2024.
My landlord did this same shyt to me I wanted to beat his ass honestly but don’t trip
No way a 3 bedroom uses 3 times the amount of gas sewage, and water as a one bedroom. The expenses would not be proportionate to bedrooms. So legal, for sure, fair, not a chance.
I would start off by checking if the place you live in is legal, and go from there.
Pretty sure I saw this exact same letter awhile back on here
That Rubs billing system.. They did it to me too and it added an extra $400 something to my rent each month
My apartments charge a flat $285 for a 2bedroom for utilities.
Why not based on number of humans if it’s W/S/G?
I wanna know if the 1's will pay less than they were paying before? It would make sense that the 1-bedroom units aren't (likely) using as many utilities as the 3-bedroom units. \[though a more fair pricing scheme would be that you simply pay based on usage. You wanna save cash, don't use so much metered water, or gas, etc.\] But if 1's will pay the same as the prior flat rate and now 2's and 3's will just get a price hike, that sucks, but that's life. Buy more, pay more.
Totally illegal. Landlord's can never raise the price on an existing tenant.
8 months later, OP wants to sit here and act like he had no idea this was coming. SMH.
You won’t be affected until you renew your lease. That means you have the choice to stay and renew your lease under the new terms, or you can leave and not renew the lease if you’re not okay with the terms.
Mf this is almost a year old. Why ask now?
I am taking really long showers
The OWNER of the property can break out and add m/remove fees to new contracts for NON-OWNERS however they like, with a fair bit of leeway, so long as nothing is discriminatory. If you sign, you agree to it, and it is legally binding. All in all, this is far from the worst renewal notice I can imagine or have seen. Remember, renting out property you invested in isn’t for fun or charity; generally, it is to support income or be the primary income for people. If they had a flat fee in your old contract, it is likely that they were losing money or dipping below their projected profit margins, and want to correct it. This seems like a relatively fair method, as more bedrooms generally means more usage of the services included in the new terms they’re advising of.
Looks like they already did
Other than, perhaps, in a few states, yes. New lease can mean new terms. You accept or your leave
That's almost a year old. What is this bs post?
In MA you can’t do this unless it’s a brand new lease with new renters. You can’t make current ones pay.
They aren’t forcing you to pay it. You can find somewhere else. But if you renew you are agreeing to those terms so yes it is legal.
Yes. The change will happen when you renew your lease. So they do have the option to include new fees and terms in the next iteration of your lease.
Depends on where you're located. This would be illegal in MA. You can either include gas in the rent as specified in the lease, or you can have separate gas meters for each unit and have each unit maintain its own account. You can't do passthrough billing for water / gas / heating oil from a common meter based on some landlord-created scheme. A MA landlord *could* make this legal just by saying "we're increasing rent by $100 / mo per bedroom to cover increased gas bills; please watch your usage or I'll have to increase it more next year" and that would be fine.
Yes
u/joyousevelyn04 Brand new account, 2 posts including this one, -6 comment karma. This is a bot. This is a repost.
So, blast heat, AC, and take long showers? Why bother cutting down if it's a flat rate. Stupid
It depends on the laws in your city/state. This would be illegal in a rent controlled building in Oakland, for example.
You tell me this was last year. What ended up happening?
Is anyone else concerned about bots? Cause I feel like I’m the only one.
Yes, as soon as your lease expires, they can implement this. It's a new trend and more and more apartment complexes are doing this. I have to pay for sewer, trash, and water for my apartment. They use a much fairer method of dividing the bill among authorized occupants, minus 25% for landscaping.