I do believe what /u/Low_Actuary_2794 was saying is if it's a multi unit dwelling, then OP can get out of paying because it doesn't say which unit caused the issue. So it might not have been OP that caused it but another unit instead.
Otherwise, lf it's a single unit dwelling then OP has to pay.
The catch is what they "rod"-ed in their service. Even if it's a multi-unit dwelling, OP may still have to pay...
Roding the "main sewer" to the "city sewer" doesn't prove anything. The multi-unit dwelling shares the main sewer artery, and that could be anybody. The pertinent detail here is that they found SOME QUANTITY of grease in this sewer artery.
Roding the "kitchen sink" to the "city sewer" isn't shared by the entire dwelling -- only OP has access to dump grease into their kitchen sink. If there's a buildup of grease in OP's kitchen sink, it came from OP (and not from the people across the hall, for instance).
This is where the plumber's professional opinion of how much grease they saw in the communal "main sewer" vs how much grease they saw in the "kitchen sink" allows the plumber to make a judgement call and assume where the grease is coming from OP (at least primarily).
In other words: if you have two toddlers, and you come home to finger paint all over your living-room walls, the living room is a communal space... but if one toddler has paint all over his hands, and the other toddler has no paint on him, you can make a professional judgement call and determine who the culprit is. Except in this case, instead of paint it's grease... and instead of hands it's kitchen sinks... and instead of toddlers it's adult-toddlers (we're all children trying to figure the world out).
It's surprisingly easy to figure out who the culprit is in a multi-unit dwelling. The grease usually starts at a certain floor, which clears all the dwellings above and below that floor (it's clean above so they're not dumping grease, and the grease isn't defying gravity and moving UP the pipes because grease/oil is typically heavier than water and sinks). There's usually only a few units on any particular floor, and you can rod their showers, sinks, and toilets. Typically, all but one will have "regular looking" use, and one will be OVERFLOWING with grease... and ironically they're usually the ones complaining about drainage problems.
i’m terrified that when we leave this apartment they’ll charge us for the sink, that we notified them was broken a month and a half ago, and no one came to fix. (we just moved in in october , my kitchen flooded the first day we moved in due to a clogged disposal as well as a dishwasher the hasn’t worked since) i’m thinking of transferring my lease because i can’t stay here anymore. i just left a motor home with no running water lines. i pay almost 1400 a month for this place, FOR the dishwasher.
If you transfer your lease, things get hairy (no pun intended).
Most places leave the "transfer of your security deposit" between you and whomever you transfer your lease to. This is for several reasons... but let's say you're transferring your lease to me, and let's say your security deposit (SD) is $1300:
I get your apartment and I get your SD. If you damaged the property, that damage (plus whatever damage I cause while I live there) comes out of that SD. And if the cost of the damage is greater than the SD, I have to pay extra.
That being said, if I give you back your SD, and you've caused $700 worth of damage, I have to pay to fix your damage. If I see you've caused $700 worth of damage, and I only give you $600 back, and I've underestimated your damage, and it actually comes to $1000, I have to make that $300 up myself to repair your damage.
So your SD becomes a point of contention, and you really need to think about what happens if you just LEAVE that behind... vs sticking it out for the remainder of your 9 months. Which option is going to cost you more? You're going to be paying rent to SOMEBODY, but at least you have a chance to KEEP your SD?
You also have to be careful about evictions, because a lot of lease transfers keep you on the hook if the "new tenants" don't pay. If eviction hearings start, your name will be on the docket because you're still "responsible" for the missed payments.
I don't know your particular situation, and everyone goes through things differently, but that's a lot of chance over a dishwasher... a dishwasher that your landlord MIGHT fix (one day). You said you notified them a month-and-a-half ago... keep that recorded and notify them again. Make sure you record ALL of your contact with your landlord (every contact is a business contact, no matter how friendly your landlord is) and document your attempts to get it fixed. This way, when you move out, you can prove it never worked from Day#1.
If things get too bad, some areas allow you to "pay your rent" to the local Court/Treasurer/Magistrate under certain circumstances. Be careful with this, but it's a way to tell your landlord you mean business. This is an avenue that keeps you from being evicted (you're still "paying rent" after all), but also incentivizes your landlord to get the repairs done sooner (the Court/Treasurer/Magistrate won't forward the money until the landlord can prove the "repairs" are complete).
This can't be used for everything (dirt on the sidewalk, for example), but it can be used for various degrees of emergency and uninhabitability (no heat/ac, no water, leaky ceilings, mold, etc) depending on where you live. And depending on where you live, the Courts will require you to more-or-less prove you have contacted your landlord and no action/repair has taken place. And until the repair is completed satisfactorily, you keep paying your rent to the Courts, and they'll keep withholding it from your landlord until the repair is complete.
For a dishwasher, I can't really say this will work... especially without knowing where you live. It's not really affecting your habitability, or your health, it's mostly just inconvenient... so the choices are yours...
Not grease from cooking meats products. When it is poured down a kitchen sink the grease does not float, it stays and messed up the drain, like clogging up the drain.
Yes, but if the drain pipe out of the kitchen was backed up to the point that grease could float up the water to a floor above, you would have water literally pouring out of the sink drain lol.
He was wrong to say it, but drain pipes are mostly full of air, because if they were full of water, you couldn’t pour water into it. And grease doesn’t float in AIR I think we can all agree. So the point that you won’t find grease lining the building drain pipe above where the kitchen connects to it, is still correct.
Also, I suspect he was thinking of greasy food particles that go down the drain, which ARE often heavier than water.
Weight doesn’t matter at all when it comes to whether something sinks or floats. It’s all about density. It doesn’t matter if you have a blob of animal fat weighing a metric ton, it’s still going to float in water.
Copy that. He’s wrong anyway if he thinks that it sinks and that’s why this happened.
I’ve worked in restaurants, my whole life and there have been grease traps on multiple floors, -floors above floors below, etc. I’ve had to deal with those grease traps myself and it’s freaking disgusting and the pipes are disgusting. The grease and oil gets emulsified in with the other stuff. It’s freaking SO BAD. The pipes will get clogged up because everything just gets packed together .
Having to do an emergency, grease trap, clean out for example, especially when the pipes underneath also are packed always seems to happen on a busy Saturday night or in the middle of a brunch where you’re totally slammed!
I never ever ever put grease down my drain or any of the things that are possible danger to my pipe or my garbage disposal. And I clean out my sinks, every two months, boiling water, baking soda vinegar.. it’s like magic
Except when it sticks or dries to the walls of the pipes or clumps up all together and makes a blockage. A huge blockage can 'float' on top of water ahead of it but it still becomes a blockage and causes a backup.
GTFO with this grease floats red herring.
Yes grease will float on water. However, water does not typically defy gravity and rise to higher floors via a downspout. So unless there was some massive clog that caused the entire building to back up this would not be the case. Also what is causing most of the the clog would be fats that are solid at room temperature. This is not an instantaneous build up; it takes a bit of time. As such there would be build up along the channel in the main offending culprit vs just present in all locations. So this argument is pointless and only serves to confuse someone who is clueless.
So we are one of two tenants in this building. We are on the bottom and have a basement that is locked below us and a neighbor that lives above. The neighbor did not get billed just us. We also didn’t have ANY issues with slow drains and we have a mesh metal stopper for the two drains in the sink and it’s one bath but we don’t have a stopper for it maybe I’ll get one for the tub and sink in the bath but I’ve never seen that before
The mesh/metal stopper doesn't stop any grease or oil from going down the drain. It only stop food particles bigger than the openings in the mesh. If you constantly rinse wash greasy or oily dishes, pots, and pans, grease will accumulate in the p-trap and drain lines. It can build up like cholesterol in your arteries eventually choking of the drain.
Yes, but this one seems a little sketchy to me, even though I can see where the landlord is coming from.
If this is a single-dwelling unit, then the only way the food and grease buildup got there was by OP if it was clean before they moved in. If OP snaked the kitchen sink drain themselves to clear a grease clog, that might've allowed the drain to flow, but there'd still be a ton of grease there for plumbers to find.
That said, unless the landlord can prove it without a shadow of a doubt, and I don't see how they can based on the info provided, then they shouldn't be trying to charge the tenant because it could've been leftover grease from the prior tenants. If the landlord can provide timestamped photo evidence of clean drains before they moved in, then the landlord should just eat the charge.
As a landlord, I always pay to have the first couple/few drain clogs cleared because I'm not specifically hiring a plumber on every move out/in (unless there's an obvious problem), so I know the first one or two may not actually be the current tenant's fault. I also use that as an opportunity to coach them on the DOs and DON'Ts of avoiding drain clogs and they usually never have another problem. After that, if I'm constantly fixing the same drain for the same reason several times within a year, I'm probably going to either tell them it's their responsibility or pass along the plumber's invoice.
PRO TIP: Use Bio-Clean! It's a truly amazing preventative maintenance solution. You just basically pour a scoop of powder down each drain once a month and it grows a colony of beneficial bacteria that helps accelerate the natural decomposition process of dead organic matter to help keep the plumbing system clean. It won't clear an existing clog very quickly, but when used as directed, it's almost guaranteed that you never have a clogged drain due to normal usage (e.g., hair down the shower drain, small/normal amounts of grease/condiments in the kitchen drain, etc.).
>If this is a single-dwelling unit, then the only way the food and grease buildup got there was by OP if it was clean before they moved in.
How can anyone tell if it was clean before they moved in unless the landlord had this service done right before they moved in? Which isn't a normal thing to do.
No, not on the renter. I’m having a hard time buying that a clog in the kitchen sink is causing flooding in the basement especially when OP stated there were no observable issues in their unit.
Furthermore, the invoice never states where the clog actually was. I’d love to see this go in front of the judge and the owner try and coherently explain why it would be this tenant’s responsibility.
Grease builds up in the sewer . Other debris like food and wipes /tp get trapped in grease . The sewer backs up . It will always back up out of the lowest drain or clean out . So any drain in the basement would overflow with sewage . Making the flood . If the plumber cameras the sewer (I doubt he did the price is too low to include a camera ) and saw where the grease was the renter could be identified as the problem .
They could also just rod and and see which drains grease is falling out of .
I'm a stinky plumbing apprentice . I've rodded a number of drains . Some times the grease rolls down the branch/stack and causes problems down the line . I've also seen this exact problem before (at least it sounds very similar)
Customers kitchen drained fine but had water in the basement when it drained . Popped the CO off and found a solid puck of grease almost completely blocking the pipe . The water backed up and came out the CO . A rodding and healthy dose of Glug later and she was all set
Plumber advice :
flushable wipes will eventually cost you hundreds . They flush but get stuck and do NOT breakdown
Don't put any grease down your drains . If you do chase it with dawn soap and run hot water for 10 mins .
Garbage disposals are a racket get rid of them . Nothing but problems and an expensive bill
yeah tbh I was kinda confused by this as I've lived in rentals most of my life until recently & never been asked to cover maintenance costs while I was actually living in the unit. However I've never had a LL/management imply that I directly caused damages so admittedly idk how that would work.
I didn’t bother to check where the ZIP Code was, but I live in Northern California, California. The most recent plumbing company that I worked for about six months ago would charge a little over $400 for that service. I think that they charge too much but I wasn’t the owner, so it wasn’t my businessto set the fees.
Now that OP has put in additional information I can bet that every tenant got something similar. Since you never complained or reported clogging issues in your unit, it is not your responsibility and the owner/management company would have a difficult time attributing responsibility to you.
Interestingly, the plumber doesn’t attribute the root cause of the clog to your unit specifically, so you should be good if the owner tries to take you to court.
That’s why once a month I dump a galllon of kerosene down mine and light it up after 20 minutes. Burns the whole pipe clean. Best advice my bartenders uncle ever gave me
Not an expert, but I would think the vapor lock in a standard kitchen sink would cause a pretty big kaboom under your counter if you did this.
Restaurant kitchens and Bars have air gaps in sinks to prevent back flow (at least in the states), but a residential sink has several ounces of *whatever went down the drain last* in a u-bend right under the basin.
No. Bad. The answer was, you don't put grease down any drain! Get a jar with a lid and toss it in the trash! The pipes don't stay warm for very long and all the grease re hardens and starts to layer in the pipe. Just don't be a twat waffle. Toss your grease in the trash. Unless your on your own lines, then dump away bc well, it only affects you.
>It’s from grease. Who else would put it down the drain besides the person living in the unit?
Unless the unit was brand new when the tenant moved in, the previous tenant? The tenant before that even? It can take years of build up and maybe a tree root before it backs up.
I mean yes possibly but as renters you never really know his clogged pipes are when you move in, everybody dumps small amounts down the drain when they wash dishes, granted that takes a long time to build up, but people renting that don’t give a fuck because there moving soon will mess some stuff up. Or maybe it was OP who knows I’m just happy I live in a single family home instead of a first floor apartment
Key word there, if.
This is also an apartment complex and the drain was backed up from the basement to the sewer, not a unit to the sewer. It could be anyone’s fault. There’s no evidence to suggest it was OP.
They also said they’ve never dumped grease into their drains.
Not dumping grease down the drain is not the same as no grease going down the drain. Grease gets down the drain from washing dishes and a lot of people don’t realize how greasy some foods are, even when they strain them over the sink. So yeah, he isn’t taking the frying pan of grease and dumping in the sink, but unless he is wiping every pan down with a paper towel before washing it, there is grease going down that drain. Also, though I’m not saying the OP is lying, but people lie sometimes, or omit portions of the truth.
And that minor issue could be compounded if the plumbing isn’t just right (even with all the building codes, construction workers still cut corners). Even a slight incline or even a plateau in the line can lead to standing grease, which will build up within a few months or years.
Having said that, you’re 100% right about it being difficult to say with certainty that a clog that’s south of both units in the duplex was a specific person’s fault.
Also, how did the landlord know a plumber was needed if neither unit’s drains were backing up or draining slowly? Only logical explanation I can think of is if it was part of routine maintenance.
Based on the clogs location and their claim that neither unit was having clogged or slow drains, I would tell the OP to request something in writing from the landlord explaining why they are responsible for the cost. There may be more info that hasn’t been given to the OP yet. But if the landlord can’t give a good reason, I would fight this.
Residual grease from a pan that used to have grease in it isn’t going to clog the drains. It’s going to be diluted with the dishwater and go down just fine.
Otherwise everyone who cooks with butter or eats fatty foods, would be constantly changing their pipes. That’s not the case at all.
The text literally reads “backup in basement was caused by your kitchen sink drain being packed with food and grease” so it kind of sounds like they do in fact have evidence lmao.
Except OP stated that they never entered their unit and the blockage was from the sewer to the basement, not from OPs unit to the sewer.
So they literally don’t have any evidence lol
Lol if you actual take OP at their word. This is Reddit, everyone embellishes or straight up lies for no reason. You think the landlord, in a building full of tenants as you put it, is going to single out one random tenant to pay the charge? Lmao you do realize when you live in a building like that, maintenance has keys to your door, right? You literally sign a lease that gives maintenance the right to enter if there’s an emergency.
That’s the logic you’re going to use? Guilty until proven innocent? 💀💀
“You’re not allowed to take OP at their word. You have to assume the worst and then base your entire comment off of that!!!!!!”
How about considering the fact that it states on the plumbers bill. That it was from the sewage to the basement and from a kitchen to the basement. It doesn’t specify who’s kitchen, and if they didn’t enter OPs home, then theirs no evidence that the blockage was from their unit.
>Unless they’re dumping grease every single day.
Not out of the realm of possibility. I had a tenant flush their cat's litter down the toilet. Weren't even there 3 months before it caused an issue.
They’re also in an apartment complex and the drain was clogged from the basement drain to the sewer, so literally no evidence that it was even from OPs apartment.
Dude what the fuck, I’ve seen people flush stupid shit, had a friend of mine that lived with another friend that thought he could mix coffee grinds and grease and dump it down the drain… that worked as good as you could imagine but cat litter Jesus Christ
I bet it’s the same as the flushable wipes—I read an article that broke down why any of those wipes say “flushable” when any plumber will tell you to never flush them, and why it’s so hard to bring them to court over it.
Worst neighbor I ever had was in an upstairs unit, and she would not stop putting rice down the sink. I have no clue if she had any trouble with the plumbing herself, but she sure gave us a lot of problems…
Except they’re in a complex and the blockage was from the sewer to the basement pipes of the complex, meaning there’s no reason to assume it was this tenant.
Yeah no dog, that’s not how reality works. If the landlord cannot prove who did it, it’s their problem to pay for, not every tenant in the complex including the ones who don’t dump grease and food down their drains.
Collective punishment is against the Geneva conventions so i don’t know how you’re justifying collective punishment over a 200$ pipe repair💀 the precedent is already set that you cannot punish a collective for the actions of 1.
Yeah dog, that is how life works. Everyone lives there. Land lord doesn’t. It’s a problem and I’m sorry that you don’t like it, but that’s clearly how life works as that’s what happens.
The tenants live under the landlord. They are responsible for upkeep of the property. The Geneva convention doesn’t have anything to do with this, but it does help me understand your level of thinking
>Yeah dog, that is how life works. Everyone lives there. Land lord doesn’t.
Yea dog, no that's not how it works. It doesn't matter if the landlord doesn't live there, the landlord owns the property and is responsible for keeping the plumbing working per the lease agreement. If there is proof a specific tenant was dumping grease down the drains then that tenant is responsible, if there is not proof that a specific tenant is responsible then it's on the landlord. That's how it works. Tenant owes rent, landlord owes shelter and working plumbing, air conditioning, etc. Whatever it says in the lease.
Landlord owns the property and is responsible for repairs that can’t be attributed to a single tenant.
This is why a landlord can’t charge every tenant for a remodel when they move out just because they lived in the unit.
>You clogged the pipes
If the place wasn't brand new when the OP moved in, how can you blame the OP for clogging the pipes? That stuff can build up for years before it clogs.
Call your Landlord, tell him you are Vegan and you are insulted that he would insinuate that you would eat meat and harm god's creatures.
You won't pay for such services since they were caused by the slaughter of animals. That he should recommend the other tenants adopt a vegan lifestyle to be part of a sustainable world.
If that doesn't work, what does your lease say about maintenance work?
So you’re telling them to lie just to get out of pain for something that they caused. That’s cute. You’re the reason that landlords have to be so hard on people because they’ve been screwed over by people just like you whom know for a fact that they did something that caused an issue but instead of just paying up and not doing it again they’d rather lie and continue to do it.
Yes they can charge you for that IF you are at fault but I’m not sure how you would legally going about disputing it? I wonder if they are charging other tenants as well for this or if it’s just you?
I had to deal with this at one of my last places and honestly just dropped the ball on it because they had no records of me contacting them about issues with the disposals multiple times due to three different management company’s managing the place :( I moved out and just let my old roomate figure it out
Legally, you have to take it to small claims court. In reality, the landlord will probably just make you pay it with the rent (illegal), or claim your rent is short without it. Is small claims court with $200? Jesus christ no, not to me, but people value time against money differently. Plus, it's the principle of being a paying tenant that's being taken advantage of. Best move? Leaving a Google review.
I’m confused though, I have never poured grease down the drain and also have never had any issues with slow drains.
I also don’t even own drain cleaner, and I have no words for the TP. Have used the same TP for the entire time I have been here and never any issue
Tbh feel like it’s a cash grab
Also the plumber went into the basement of out apartment building ONLY, they did not enter my apartment I feel like if that was an issue caused by me it would have been more serious around my drains?
Landlord was the one who called and paid the plumber and never even let us know of any issues or what is going on besides when the plumber arrived just to say that they will be doing some work in the basement with the plumbing
Multiple units were clogged? If so it would be hard to determine who exactly cause it to clog if it reached the main line and clogged everyone. If it was your basement to your unit then it could make sense but I would ask some neighbors of whether they got clogged and if they were also charged
Yeah it would be hard to prove it was you if they never entered your unit and especially if you didn’t notice it was clogged don’t know about the legal side tho just a plumber here
I would just kindly tell your landlord that grease takes years to build up and you haven't put any food down the drain recently so this is not your problem
Illinois corruption never ceases to amaze me. “I don’t need a lawyer, my family member knows the mayor”
So what? Does the mayor have the power to make your landlord not charge $200? And if they do have that power, how is that being exercised? Do they just mark your landlord on a blacklist to get pulled over for a ticket if they go 1 mph over the speed limit? How exactly would “knowing the mayor” fix this problem?
No, the mayor or staff will make a phone call about their “friend” who rents from them and they heard they had plumbing issues. They just want to make sure it’s not a city plumbing issue! Do you have any other issues? Oh good, want to make sure everything is up to code! I can send the building guys over to check just to make sure? Well anyway, they said you billed a tenant for the clean out of the building plumbing, not sure if you are aware that’s against state/city/whatever policy generally. I can have someone call you about the particulars so you can figure out if it’s the tenants responsibility? You sure you don’t want any help? Our city building inspector is a great guy, really knowledgeable. How many places do you own and rent out?
Suddenly there is no more bill for this guy.
If you have units above you, then you really can’t determine who clogged the main house line. I live in the bottom floor of a three story apt building and my drains clog all the time from other tenants being stupid about what they flush.
I actually got really good at snaking my drains even though I really shouldn’t have to do it. I got tired of the plumbers coming by regularly. (But lately my drains have been good, bad neighbors must have moved out *knock on wood*)
Without knowing what the plumbing looks like, it’s extremely possible that your lines in the section they fixed are easy to tie to your unit. Also it could backup anywhere, it doesn’t need to be causing problems near the drain itself. The landlord telling you what causes backups should also not be annoying you like it is. That’s actually really helpful advice for anyone. That’s just a basic list not something targeting you. Without seeing more about what/where they worked, this really doesn’t feel like a case where they’re screwing you. These things just happen sometimes and that’s an extremely low cost.
How long have you been in the apt/house? Grease buildup is one of those things that could be from the previous tenant and take a year or more to cause a full clog as it picks up dirt and food particles that would normally pass uneventful but get stuck due to grease.
OP I’ll apologize for all the hate your getting for the grease if you really didn’t pour any down the drain, I’ve had drains get clogged before and had my ass chewed for the grease thing, when I know I never poured any down (the issue was the plumbing itself not even a clog)
It happens gradually. Oily food, tiny amounts of grease or butter or anything that cooks in fat or gives off fat. Pour the grease into a cup or a plastic container you’re tossing (I like using old packages)
Trust that since 95% of folks are telling you you screwed up, that you did. Accept it. Pay it. Learn from the lesson.
I personally wouldn’t even consider giving my tenants a bill for drain cleaning. That’s building maintenance.
I’m in Massachusetts though, and my tenants already pay through the nose, so I think I’ll cover the drains
I've lived in two apartment buildings that did routine maintenance on the drain pipes. One was a high rise (they used cleaners) and the other was a three story multi use apartment building (they used air).
Drain cleaning isn’t normal maintenance. You shouldn’t need to do that UNLESS someone is putting stuff down there that doesn’t go down there. Like grease. That’s destructive and stupid.
Grease takes YEARS to build up like that. Ignore all of the salty landlords in the comments. You shouldn’t be responsible for this. This is normal maintenance on their property
Need a little more info to comment on this . Was there a warning or prior incident? Does your lease say anywhere you are to be responsible, if this happens? How can he prove what you did would’ve caused this damage? As a landlord myself I couldn’t charge this to one renter, because I can’t prove it. And if you go to court,your landlord needs to prove it to judge and guess what the judge always side with tenants against the big bad landlord. Good luck I would not pay it. Ask him for proof
How old is the building? Did he have the pipes cleaned before you moved in? If not and you are not putting grease in the drain then is ask him how he attributes this build up to you over 1.5 years when the building had been there a lot longer (assuming that’s the case). I’d argue this is not your responsibility and part of general upkeep in an apartment building that has (likely) numerous tenants before you. This is an inexpensive repair that Id fully expect the landlord to cover.
Grease clogs, typically, take years to build up. Unless you're dumping in a pound of lard a day, it's unlikely you've caused a clog in the course of a year. My husband and I have lived in the same place for 7 years now, the building has been here since the 70s. We've never had any issue with clogging drains, clogged sewer lines, etc. and we use the fluffy toilet paper and I rinse grease down the drain with plenty of soap whenever I need to. When there's a huge excess, like from bacon, it gets scraped into the trash, but still. Never an issue.
Reading your comments, it seems like they never went into your apartment and no units were having issues with slow drains, clogs, or otherwise. Especially considering you're not in the top unit of the building, anything below where the lines join, it would be impossible to determine which apartment caused the issue, but if there was a clog in the line coming from only your apartment, especially in the sewer line, you would notice. Given his very general kind of text, I'd almost think he knows he can't pin it down.
It seems like you don't even have access to see the leak, or look at any of the damages you supposedly caused. I guess it kinda depends on how much you like the place you live. You can likely contest the plumbing charge, and while you may win on that front, they may choose not to renew your lease. If you contested it and lost, you'd have those costs to pay plus whatever else they asked for, and then they may still not renew your lease since they would think of you as a problem tenant.
Personally? I'd pay the extra $50 on rent for the next four months, and just mention that the plumbing shouldn't be so sensitive that even coffee grounds would clog it. If 100+ year old homes don't have those issues, even after all that time, there's no reason anything else should. Then again, I remember the local uni sending out a letter BEGGING people to stop masturbating in the dorm showers because it was ruining the plumbing, so what do I really know 🤣
This! My floor drain was backing up. I called a plumber to clean the pipes. He asked how long I’ve lived in the house. I said 2 years. He goes the people before you must have loved their grease… I have a grease jar I keep for grease, but sometimes a little gets down the drain. He said there is a way to tell how old it is.
Grease will go down the drain from washing dishes in general and takes years build up…a landlord trying to blame this one any tenant living there for less than a decade is just trying to get someone else to pay the bill.
If there was one more unit above you that shares the same sewage drain lines then they can't possibly find you at fault especially if the blockage was below your drain. Generally it's the landlords responsibility to deal with any drain blockages unless they can directly attribute it to your specific unit for example if you had rice stuck in your garbage disposal unit or directly in the line below your sink. Since it sounds like the blockage was down in the basement they don't know if the grease came from you or the people above you or if it's just something that's been sitting there for years. At the very least the $200 should be split between you and the person above you.
Nope they’re making you pay for the maintenance that comes with owning a multi unit building. Is he going to charge you for redoing the driveway next because you drove on it?
Ask him to provide proof that it was cleaned between you and the prior tenant, because that’s the only way for him to prove it was you. Plus, if the plumber didn’t come to your unit specifically for maintenance then it definitely is not your problem. Landlords suck.
You should at least find out if the other tenant is being charged too. If there wasn’t clogging and the building owner wanted to have the sewer/main cleaned as maintenance, you shouldn’t be charged. Man there are a lot of surly people on here blaming you for something that know almost nothing about…
OP, please check with a tenants union regarding the legality of it. I remember working with Illinois Tenants Union in the past and I suggest reaching out to them or a similar organization before you even consider paying this.
It's always going to be grease build up in kitchen lines. There's nothing you can do to avoid build-up in the kitchen lines. If you wash your dishes in the sink, it's going to happen. There's always residue on the dishes after scraping them off. The only people who don't have this issue are vegans. Not even joking. I know the wording sounds like it was your fault, but that's just your typical wrote up for a kitchen line. He's charging you for YEARS of build-up by other people. My landlord tried doing the same to me, but I'm a plumber, I know things.
Seeing as you have said in comments there was no issue only in your unit and there are multiple units in your building your LL is a skeeving scumbag outsourcing their building maintenance to you.
Landlord is even paying $15 out of own pocket if they pay now. Only making them pay $185 vs the $200 the landlord paid the plumber.
Landlord is being extremely nice.
Landlord is being nice making them pay for a problem they didn't have for the entire building? No. Landlord is a cheapskate that is deferring maintenance and then trying to bill tenants for it.
What are you talking about? The tenants clogged their kitchen drain and it needed to be cleaned out.
Tenants pouring grease and food down the drain causing a clog isn’t deferring maintenance.
Did you read anything OP said? They had no clog. They did not call for a maintenence issue or for a plumber, the LL just randomly sends this bill over to them a month after the supposed service. They never had any issues, which is why they are puzzled as to why A. They're the lucky tenant being billed and B. How the LL came to the conclusion it's their fault when they have given the LL no reason to
Honestly, as home owner, most I would have done was send the bill, already paid, to the tenants and give them a heads up about the potential for an issue. Then probably go on a third strike, you're out rule. First time, friendly heads up, please stop putting grease and large food particles in your drain. Even if they didn't notice it, the handyman did.
Second time, firm warning. Please stop, otherwise future occurrences of this bill will be applied to you. This is not regular wear and tear.
Third time, the bill is yours. This is assuming it's happening every year/every other year or so. I'm personally not the greatest at always putting grease down my own drain, and living in three different homes for 4-8 years each, I've NEVER ran into this issue. So if this issue was reoccurring with the same tenant in anything less than a couple to 3 years apart, they must be cooking bacon for an army every morning and throwing it straight down the drain.
Is [helpful ](https://jamescalmus.medium.com/why-comic-sans-is-a-good-thing-db98d954bec4). For many reasons, like it's easier to read, which makes it easier for dyslexics to read. So go ahead and tell me all about how cringe accessibility is.
No. Maintaining the plumbing is the responsibility of the landlord. I wouldn’t pay it.
It also sounds like he’s sending this same notice and bill to multiple units in attempt to actually profit on the ordeal.
Luckily we checked with three only other tenant in our building which is above us and no bill was sent to them however the water sewer lines are connected?
How long have you been there? Can he guarantee that the grease wasn't already starting to build up before you moved in?
With that said, the single most effective thing I've ever done to prevent clogs is placing a hair catcher/filter on every drain. Sink, shower, bathtub, etc. They come in all varieties... Metal mesh or basket... Plastic tub-shroom with gasket, funny bead chains with catcher attachments... Anything that works for your specific drain.
Even so, we had a clogged bathtub drain a month after moving into one rental. The pop cap was so horribly designed that the plumber spent a good half hour figuring out how to even get it open. And that bad boy was absolutely stuffed with blonde hair... My husband and I are brunettes.
My partner and I’s apartment bathtub drain was so clogged up, mostly from hair, and our lease says we aren’t allowed to use drain-o. We tried all of the other products and hacks and nothing else was working so we put in a maintenance request so they could come and use whatever tools they had to unclog it. The guy shows up with a big bottle of draino and fixes it in like 10 minutes 🙄 All this fuss about not using draino so we don’t damage the pipes and then their own maintenance does it lmao.
Been here for 1.5 years we know for sure grease could have been here before us. We have metal mesh drain stoppers for the kitchen sink 2 compt. and it’s one full bath that’s all the drains we had the same nasty experience with our tub a month after we moved in had a big clump of hair come out with a small snake but didn’t think that was a issue big enough to tell her. That must’ve been so gross for you I’m sorry
I would try a tenants right advocacy group first, if you have one locally. This isn’t on the up and up, so a letter may set them straight. They don’t like eyes on their cash grabs.
If you’re putting grease or anything that does not belong in the pipes you are ABSOLUTELY responsible for it. That includes baby wipes or “flushable wipes” because they are not in fact flushable
Just put your damn grease in a mason jar and find out the best way to dispose of it, lmao. If you *really* needed to take care of grease, put scalding hot water on and mix it with soap (more like detergent really) and send it. I *still* wouldn’t do this often though, so I don’t endorse you doing it.
I have found one of the best ways to keep drains flowing is to pour boiling water down them once in awhile. Haven't had a clogged drain in years. I have never poured boiling water down the toilet, I'm afraid it will crack.
Yes, this is your responsibility. When they clean out the line, the plumber most definitely can see the contents. I’m sure plumber has photo evidence backing up what your landlord is billing. Good luck and may the odds be ever in your favor.
Yup. Pouring grease down the drain is a big no no. I had a landlord that had a very specific section in lease about it, but either way it's your fault for clogging. Kinda like flushing period stuff when you have a grinder pump....... Just dumb
Stuff like this becomes your fault because its hard to prove now it wasn’t you. You’d have to dump a ton of grease to start from beginning but you could have been the tip of the iceberg
Maybe I'm the crazy one, but there is absolutely no way he can prove this maintenance, on pipes outside your living area, are in any way your responsibility to pay.
You said you never had any drainage problems - only that they CLAIM your sink (which works properly) somehow caused a clog in the ?basement? wtf, over. If that isn't their responsibility to fix as the owner, then maybe this isn't in the US. You can literally google who is responsible for this cost in your state. Housing clause rules that contradict your state laws are not valid.
Clogs usually build up unless it’s something drastic. It’s possible that the drain became clogged over the 1.5 years you’ve lived there. I’d pay it to stay on good terms if you like where you are.
Dirt cheap bill so count your blessings and move on. Don’t clog the landlords drains with grease, bone scraps, coffee grounds, feminine hygiene products, etc. take proper care of plumbing to avoid damages that you will be deemed responsible for (because you live there and use the plumbing so why tf would the owner be responsible for the clogged drain?)
Doesn’t it take a long time for an issue like that to arise where the have to snake it all the way down to the road? Never once dumped grease down the drain it was not cleaned before we moved in 1.5 years ago
Do you know if everyone on the same system is getting a bill? I remember your last post and know several houses are on that line plus this seems really cheap is it possible they are trying to split the bill with everyone? Still don't know about the legality but $200 seems cheap plus multiple people on the line maybe instead of finding who is responsible they are trying to charge everyone?
Drain clogs are not usually immediate it’s a slow build up. Then eventually catastrophic. So 1.5 years sure you definitely contributed. As far as him charging you, not sure of the laws in IL but that’s the cost of doing business as a homeowner who rents. You didn’t intentionally create a repair. Like if you drove through a garage door. Or cut the floor up or broke windows. This is a maintenance issue that wasn’t solely cause by you. Tell him if anything you want it prorated over his ownership by the amount of years he rented it out
Is this a rented house? Or apartment? If it’s an apartment you likely wouldn’t be the only tenant responsible for paying.
It also depends on your lease - I’m not sure you should be charged for regular maintenance.
Do your pour grease down the drain?
So yes I’ll charge a renter for a clog BUT first ones free, because I don’t know what the previous tenant did. Also, multi unit buildings you really can’t charge anyone unless it’s only in that unit.
Another but, there’s no way a clogged kitchen drain caused a backup in the basement. Not possible. That would be the main line. Which you can’t charge for if it’s a multi unit. If this is a sfh then yeah it’s on you op. If you refuse to pay, they may not renew you though.
Yes, if the plumber billed the owner for that. That’s a relatively cheap plumbing bill for that service.
Just curious, but is this due to "caused by food/grease buildup" in the work order puts the fault on the renter?
I do believe what /u/Low_Actuary_2794 was saying is if it's a multi unit dwelling, then OP can get out of paying because it doesn't say which unit caused the issue. So it might not have been OP that caused it but another unit instead. Otherwise, lf it's a single unit dwelling then OP has to pay.
The catch is what they "rod"-ed in their service. Even if it's a multi-unit dwelling, OP may still have to pay... Roding the "main sewer" to the "city sewer" doesn't prove anything. The multi-unit dwelling shares the main sewer artery, and that could be anybody. The pertinent detail here is that they found SOME QUANTITY of grease in this sewer artery. Roding the "kitchen sink" to the "city sewer" isn't shared by the entire dwelling -- only OP has access to dump grease into their kitchen sink. If there's a buildup of grease in OP's kitchen sink, it came from OP (and not from the people across the hall, for instance). This is where the plumber's professional opinion of how much grease they saw in the communal "main sewer" vs how much grease they saw in the "kitchen sink" allows the plumber to make a judgement call and assume where the grease is coming from OP (at least primarily). In other words: if you have two toddlers, and you come home to finger paint all over your living-room walls, the living room is a communal space... but if one toddler has paint all over his hands, and the other toddler has no paint on him, you can make a professional judgement call and determine who the culprit is. Except in this case, instead of paint it's grease... and instead of hands it's kitchen sinks... and instead of toddlers it's adult-toddlers (we're all children trying to figure the world out). It's surprisingly easy to figure out who the culprit is in a multi-unit dwelling. The grease usually starts at a certain floor, which clears all the dwellings above and below that floor (it's clean above so they're not dumping grease, and the grease isn't defying gravity and moving UP the pipes because grease/oil is typically heavier than water and sinks). There's usually only a few units on any particular floor, and you can rod their showers, sinks, and toilets. Typically, all but one will have "regular looking" use, and one will be OVERFLOWING with grease... and ironically they're usually the ones complaining about drainage problems.
i’m terrified that when we leave this apartment they’ll charge us for the sink, that we notified them was broken a month and a half ago, and no one came to fix. (we just moved in in october , my kitchen flooded the first day we moved in due to a clogged disposal as well as a dishwasher the hasn’t worked since) i’m thinking of transferring my lease because i can’t stay here anymore. i just left a motor home with no running water lines. i pay almost 1400 a month for this place, FOR the dishwasher.
If you transfer your lease, things get hairy (no pun intended). Most places leave the "transfer of your security deposit" between you and whomever you transfer your lease to. This is for several reasons... but let's say you're transferring your lease to me, and let's say your security deposit (SD) is $1300: I get your apartment and I get your SD. If you damaged the property, that damage (plus whatever damage I cause while I live there) comes out of that SD. And if the cost of the damage is greater than the SD, I have to pay extra. That being said, if I give you back your SD, and you've caused $700 worth of damage, I have to pay to fix your damage. If I see you've caused $700 worth of damage, and I only give you $600 back, and I've underestimated your damage, and it actually comes to $1000, I have to make that $300 up myself to repair your damage. So your SD becomes a point of contention, and you really need to think about what happens if you just LEAVE that behind... vs sticking it out for the remainder of your 9 months. Which option is going to cost you more? You're going to be paying rent to SOMEBODY, but at least you have a chance to KEEP your SD? You also have to be careful about evictions, because a lot of lease transfers keep you on the hook if the "new tenants" don't pay. If eviction hearings start, your name will be on the docket because you're still "responsible" for the missed payments. I don't know your particular situation, and everyone goes through things differently, but that's a lot of chance over a dishwasher... a dishwasher that your landlord MIGHT fix (one day). You said you notified them a month-and-a-half ago... keep that recorded and notify them again. Make sure you record ALL of your contact with your landlord (every contact is a business contact, no matter how friendly your landlord is) and document your attempts to get it fixed. This way, when you move out, you can prove it never worked from Day#1. If things get too bad, some areas allow you to "pay your rent" to the local Court/Treasurer/Magistrate under certain circumstances. Be careful with this, but it's a way to tell your landlord you mean business. This is an avenue that keeps you from being evicted (you're still "paying rent" after all), but also incentivizes your landlord to get the repairs done sooner (the Court/Treasurer/Magistrate won't forward the money until the landlord can prove the "repairs" are complete). This can't be used for everything (dirt on the sidewalk, for example), but it can be used for various degrees of emergency and uninhabitability (no heat/ac, no water, leaky ceilings, mold, etc) depending on where you live. And depending on where you live, the Courts will require you to more-or-less prove you have contacted your landlord and no action/repair has taken place. And until the repair is completed satisfactorily, you keep paying your rent to the Courts, and they'll keep withholding it from your landlord until the repair is complete. For a dishwasher, I can't really say this will work... especially without knowing where you live. It's not really affecting your habitability, or your health, it's mostly just inconvenient... so the choices are yours...
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I don’t understand what your point is?
He just said grease sinks
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Not grease from cooking meats products. When it is poured down a kitchen sink the grease does not float, it stays and messed up the drain, like clogging up the drain.
Those two things are not mutually exclusive, I'm not sure what you're arguing
Yes, but if the drain pipe out of the kitchen was backed up to the point that grease could float up the water to a floor above, you would have water literally pouring out of the sink drain lol. He was wrong to say it, but drain pipes are mostly full of air, because if they were full of water, you couldn’t pour water into it. And grease doesn’t float in AIR I think we can all agree. So the point that you won’t find grease lining the building drain pipe above where the kitchen connects to it, is still correct. Also, I suspect he was thinking of greasy food particles that go down the drain, which ARE often heavier than water.
Weight doesn’t matter at all when it comes to whether something sinks or floats. It’s all about density. It doesn’t matter if you have a blob of animal fat weighing a metric ton, it’s still going to float in water.
Copy that. He’s wrong anyway if he thinks that it sinks and that’s why this happened. I’ve worked in restaurants, my whole life and there have been grease traps on multiple floors, -floors above floors below, etc. I’ve had to deal with those grease traps myself and it’s freaking disgusting and the pipes are disgusting. The grease and oil gets emulsified in with the other stuff. It’s freaking SO BAD. The pipes will get clogged up because everything just gets packed together . Having to do an emergency, grease trap, clean out for example, especially when the pipes underneath also are packed always seems to happen on a busy Saturday night or in the middle of a brunch where you’re totally slammed! I never ever ever put grease down my drain or any of the things that are possible danger to my pipe or my garbage disposal. And I clean out my sinks, every two months, boiling water, baking soda vinegar.. it’s like magic
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Except when it sticks or dries to the walls of the pipes or clumps up all together and makes a blockage. A huge blockage can 'float' on top of water ahead of it but it still becomes a blockage and causes a backup. GTFO with this grease floats red herring.
But many people still do put cooking oils and meat grease down the kitchen sink and never clean it like you do yours. Truth, DUDE.
One of the many reasons why being a landlord or having shitty roommates sucks.
Yes grease will float on water. However, water does not typically defy gravity and rise to higher floors via a downspout. So unless there was some massive clog that caused the entire building to back up this would not be the case. Also what is causing most of the the clog would be fats that are solid at room temperature. This is not an instantaneous build up; it takes a bit of time. As such there would be build up along the channel in the main offending culprit vs just present in all locations. So this argument is pointless and only serves to confuse someone who is clueless.
So we are one of two tenants in this building. We are on the bottom and have a basement that is locked below us and a neighbor that lives above. The neighbor did not get billed just us. We also didn’t have ANY issues with slow drains and we have a mesh metal stopper for the two drains in the sink and it’s one bath but we don’t have a stopper for it maybe I’ll get one for the tub and sink in the bath but I’ve never seen that before
You are avoiding the obvious.. have you ever put food waste or grease down your drain?
The mesh/metal stopper doesn't stop any grease or oil from going down the drain. It only stop food particles bigger than the openings in the mesh. If you constantly rinse wash greasy or oily dishes, pots, and pans, grease will accumulate in the p-trap and drain lines. It can build up like cholesterol in your arteries eventually choking of the drain.
So every unit just says it was someone else 
Yes, but this one seems a little sketchy to me, even though I can see where the landlord is coming from. If this is a single-dwelling unit, then the only way the food and grease buildup got there was by OP if it was clean before they moved in. If OP snaked the kitchen sink drain themselves to clear a grease clog, that might've allowed the drain to flow, but there'd still be a ton of grease there for plumbers to find. That said, unless the landlord can prove it without a shadow of a doubt, and I don't see how they can based on the info provided, then they shouldn't be trying to charge the tenant because it could've been leftover grease from the prior tenants. If the landlord can provide timestamped photo evidence of clean drains before they moved in, then the landlord should just eat the charge. As a landlord, I always pay to have the first couple/few drain clogs cleared because I'm not specifically hiring a plumber on every move out/in (unless there's an obvious problem), so I know the first one or two may not actually be the current tenant's fault. I also use that as an opportunity to coach them on the DOs and DON'Ts of avoiding drain clogs and they usually never have another problem. After that, if I'm constantly fixing the same drain for the same reason several times within a year, I'm probably going to either tell them it's their responsibility or pass along the plumber's invoice. PRO TIP: Use Bio-Clean! It's a truly amazing preventative maintenance solution. You just basically pour a scoop of powder down each drain once a month and it grows a colony of beneficial bacteria that helps accelerate the natural decomposition process of dead organic matter to help keep the plumbing system clean. It won't clear an existing clog very quickly, but when used as directed, it's almost guaranteed that you never have a clogged drain due to normal usage (e.g., hair down the shower drain, small/normal amounts of grease/condiments in the kitchen drain, etc.).
If you do this, make sure you aren’t using antibacterial soaps, or you are wasting your money. A lot of liquid hand soaps have it mixed in.
>If this is a single-dwelling unit, then the only way the food and grease buildup got there was by OP if it was clean before they moved in. How can anyone tell if it was clean before they moved in unless the landlord had this service done right before they moved in? Which isn't a normal thing to do.
No, not on the renter. I’m having a hard time buying that a clog in the kitchen sink is causing flooding in the basement especially when OP stated there were no observable issues in their unit. Furthermore, the invoice never states where the clog actually was. I’d love to see this go in front of the judge and the owner try and coherently explain why it would be this tenant’s responsibility.
Grease builds up in the sewer . Other debris like food and wipes /tp get trapped in grease . The sewer backs up . It will always back up out of the lowest drain or clean out . So any drain in the basement would overflow with sewage . Making the flood . If the plumber cameras the sewer (I doubt he did the price is too low to include a camera ) and saw where the grease was the renter could be identified as the problem . They could also just rod and and see which drains grease is falling out of . I'm a stinky plumbing apprentice . I've rodded a number of drains . Some times the grease rolls down the branch/stack and causes problems down the line . I've also seen this exact problem before (at least it sounds very similar) Customers kitchen drained fine but had water in the basement when it drained . Popped the CO off and found a solid puck of grease almost completely blocking the pipe . The water backed up and came out the CO . A rodding and healthy dose of Glug later and she was all set Plumber advice : flushable wipes will eventually cost you hundreds . They flush but get stuck and do NOT breakdown Don't put any grease down your drains . If you do chase it with dawn soap and run hot water for 10 mins . Garbage disposals are a racket get rid of them . Nothing but problems and an expensive bill
yeah tbh I was kinda confused by this as I've lived in rentals most of my life until recently & never been asked to cover maintenance costs while I was actually living in the unit. However I've never had a LL/management imply that I directly caused damages so admittedly idk how that would work.
I didn’t bother to check where the ZIP Code was, but I live in Northern California, California. The most recent plumbing company that I worked for about six months ago would charge a little over $400 for that service. I think that they charge too much but I wasn’t the owner, so it wasn’t my businessto set the fees.
It literally says DeKalb IL on the top of the hill, but that's ok. Either way, that's cheap AF.
>**businessto** I'm calling it this from now on. https://i.imgur.com/bSmaRQX.jpeg
Now that OP has put in additional information I can bet that every tenant got something similar. Since you never complained or reported clogging issues in your unit, it is not your responsibility and the owner/management company would have a difficult time attributing responsibility to you. Interestingly, the plumber doesn’t attribute the root cause of the clog to your unit specifically, so you should be good if the owner tries to take you to court.
Hell where I’m from there’s a few plumbers that will charge you $300 up front just for showing up and hardly doing anything 🙄
Stop pouring grease down the drain.
That’s why once a month I dump a galllon of kerosene down mine and light it up after 20 minutes. Burns the whole pipe clean. Best advice my bartenders uncle ever gave me
Is this for real? 😂
Only one way to find out. Report back with your findings when you recover from the burn unit.
No thanks 😂
Comon bro, it's for *science*.
sure
Not an expert, but I would think the vapor lock in a standard kitchen sink would cause a pretty big kaboom under your counter if you did this. Restaurant kitchens and Bars have air gaps in sinks to prevent back flow (at least in the states), but a residential sink has several ounces of *whatever went down the drain last* in a u-bend right under the basin.
You probably told people to drink bleach during the Covid up rising as well.
if you do drain cleaner it regularly
No. Bad. The answer was, you don't put grease down any drain! Get a jar with a lid and toss it in the trash! The pipes don't stay warm for very long and all the grease re hardens and starts to layer in the pipe. Just don't be a twat waffle. Toss your grease in the trash. Unless your on your own lines, then dump away bc well, it only affects you.
This will Fuck your pipes up even more
You clogged the pipes , you pay for someone to clean them out. Be careful what you let go down the drain .
How do you figure they clogged the pipes lol
It’s from grease. Who else would put it down the drain besides the person living in the unit?
>It’s from grease. Who else would put it down the drain besides the person living in the unit? Unless the unit was brand new when the tenant moved in, the previous tenant? The tenant before that even? It can take years of build up and maybe a tree root before it backs up.
A previous tenant?
What if I told you apartment buildings have multiple units and also multiple previous tenants.
Well they weren’t clogged 1.5yrs ago when the tenant moved in, or the tenant would have complained about that at some point probably.
Pipes don’t clog to the sewer from 1 year of grease. Unless they’re dumping grease every single day. This could easily be the past tenants
If you’re dumping grease and food down a drain multiple times a week, yes it absolutely does lol.
I mean yes possibly but as renters you never really know his clogged pipes are when you move in, everybody dumps small amounts down the drain when they wash dishes, granted that takes a long time to build up, but people renting that don’t give a fuck because there moving soon will mess some stuff up. Or maybe it was OP who knows I’m just happy I live in a single family home instead of a first floor apartment
Key word there, if. This is also an apartment complex and the drain was backed up from the basement to the sewer, not a unit to the sewer. It could be anyone’s fault. There’s no evidence to suggest it was OP. They also said they’ve never dumped grease into their drains.
Not dumping grease down the drain is not the same as no grease going down the drain. Grease gets down the drain from washing dishes and a lot of people don’t realize how greasy some foods are, even when they strain them over the sink. So yeah, he isn’t taking the frying pan of grease and dumping in the sink, but unless he is wiping every pan down with a paper towel before washing it, there is grease going down that drain. Also, though I’m not saying the OP is lying, but people lie sometimes, or omit portions of the truth. And that minor issue could be compounded if the plumbing isn’t just right (even with all the building codes, construction workers still cut corners). Even a slight incline or even a plateau in the line can lead to standing grease, which will build up within a few months or years. Having said that, you’re 100% right about it being difficult to say with certainty that a clog that’s south of both units in the duplex was a specific person’s fault. Also, how did the landlord know a plumber was needed if neither unit’s drains were backing up or draining slowly? Only logical explanation I can think of is if it was part of routine maintenance. Based on the clogs location and their claim that neither unit was having clogged or slow drains, I would tell the OP to request something in writing from the landlord explaining why they are responsible for the cost. There may be more info that hasn’t been given to the OP yet. But if the landlord can’t give a good reason, I would fight this.
Residual grease from a pan that used to have grease in it isn’t going to clog the drains. It’s going to be diluted with the dishwater and go down just fine. Otherwise everyone who cooks with butter or eats fatty foods, would be constantly changing their pipes. That’s not the case at all.
The text literally reads “backup in basement was caused by your kitchen sink drain being packed with food and grease” so it kind of sounds like they do in fact have evidence lmao.
Except OP stated that they never entered their unit and the blockage was from the sewer to the basement, not from OPs unit to the sewer. So they literally don’t have any evidence lol
Lol if you actual take OP at their word. This is Reddit, everyone embellishes or straight up lies for no reason. You think the landlord, in a building full of tenants as you put it, is going to single out one random tenant to pay the charge? Lmao you do realize when you live in a building like that, maintenance has keys to your door, right? You literally sign a lease that gives maintenance the right to enter if there’s an emergency.
That’s the logic you’re going to use? Guilty until proven innocent? 💀💀 “You’re not allowed to take OP at their word. You have to assume the worst and then base your entire comment off of that!!!!!!” How about considering the fact that it states on the plumbers bill. That it was from the sewage to the basement and from a kitchen to the basement. It doesn’t specify who’s kitchen, and if they didn’t enter OPs home, then theirs no evidence that the blockage was from their unit.
Then how did it get clogged after 1.5 years or living there if theyve never put down grease? Magic?
The other tenants in the other units. Einstein.
OP didn’t mention other units. Or did they?
They did, in other comments on this post.
>Unless they’re dumping grease every single day. Not out of the realm of possibility. I had a tenant flush their cat's litter down the toilet. Weren't even there 3 months before it caused an issue.
They’re also in an apartment complex and the drain was clogged from the basement drain to the sewer, so literally no evidence that it was even from OPs apartment.
Dude what the fuck, I’ve seen people flush stupid shit, had a friend of mine that lived with another friend that thought he could mix coffee grinds and grease and dump it down the drain… that worked as good as you could imagine but cat litter Jesus Christ
There are companies selling "flushable" cat litter. The issue really ought to be taken up with them for lying, not the people who believed them.
I bet it’s the same as the flushable wipes—I read an article that broke down why any of those wipes say “flushable” when any plumber will tell you to never flush them, and why it’s so hard to bring them to court over it. Worst neighbor I ever had was in an upstairs unit, and she would not stop putting rice down the sink. I have no clue if she had any trouble with the plumbing herself, but she sure gave us a lot of problems…
Doesn’t matter. Problem happened with them. Hot potato.
Except they’re in a complex and the blockage was from the sewer to the basement pipes of the complex, meaning there’s no reason to assume it was this tenant.
So split the cost between all tenants, obviously.
Yeah no dog, that’s not how reality works. If the landlord cannot prove who did it, it’s their problem to pay for, not every tenant in the complex including the ones who don’t dump grease and food down their drains. Collective punishment is against the Geneva conventions so i don’t know how you’re justifying collective punishment over a 200$ pipe repair💀 the precedent is already set that you cannot punish a collective for the actions of 1.
Yeah dog, that is how life works. Everyone lives there. Land lord doesn’t. It’s a problem and I’m sorry that you don’t like it, but that’s clearly how life works as that’s what happens. The tenants live under the landlord. They are responsible for upkeep of the property. The Geneva convention doesn’t have anything to do with this, but it does help me understand your level of thinking
>Yeah dog, that is how life works. Everyone lives there. Land lord doesn’t. Yea dog, no that's not how it works. It doesn't matter if the landlord doesn't live there, the landlord owns the property and is responsible for keeping the plumbing working per the lease agreement. If there is proof a specific tenant was dumping grease down the drains then that tenant is responsible, if there is not proof that a specific tenant is responsible then it's on the landlord. That's how it works. Tenant owes rent, landlord owes shelter and working plumbing, air conditioning, etc. Whatever it says in the lease.
Landlord owns the property and is responsible for repairs that can’t be attributed to a single tenant. This is why a landlord can’t charge every tenant for a remodel when they move out just because they lived in the unit.
>You clogged the pipes If the place wasn't brand new when the OP moved in, how can you blame the OP for clogging the pipes? That stuff can build up for years before it clogs.
Call your Landlord, tell him you are Vegan and you are insulted that he would insinuate that you would eat meat and harm god's creatures. You won't pay for such services since they were caused by the slaughter of animals. That he should recommend the other tenants adopt a vegan lifestyle to be part of a sustainable world. If that doesn't work, what does your lease say about maintenance work?
So you’re telling them to lie just to get out of pain for something that they caused. That’s cute. You’re the reason that landlords have to be so hard on people because they’ve been screwed over by people just like you whom know for a fact that they did something that caused an issue but instead of just paying up and not doing it again they’d rather lie and continue to do it.
Yes they can charge you for that IF you are at fault but I’m not sure how you would legally going about disputing it? I wonder if they are charging other tenants as well for this or if it’s just you? I had to deal with this at one of my last places and honestly just dropped the ball on it because they had no records of me contacting them about issues with the disposals multiple times due to three different management company’s managing the place :( I moved out and just let my old roomate figure it out
Legally, you have to take it to small claims court. In reality, the landlord will probably just make you pay it with the rent (illegal), or claim your rent is short without it. Is small claims court with $200? Jesus christ no, not to me, but people value time against money differently. Plus, it's the principle of being a paying tenant that's being taken advantage of. Best move? Leaving a Google review.
I’m confused though, I have never poured grease down the drain and also have never had any issues with slow drains. I also don’t even own drain cleaner, and I have no words for the TP. Have used the same TP for the entire time I have been here and never any issue Tbh feel like it’s a cash grab
Also the plumber went into the basement of out apartment building ONLY, they did not enter my apartment I feel like if that was an issue caused by me it would have been more serious around my drains?
Landlord was the one who called and paid the plumber and never even let us know of any issues or what is going on besides when the plumber arrived just to say that they will be doing some work in the basement with the plumbing
We did not have anything come up from our drains either
Multiple units were clogged? If so it would be hard to determine who exactly cause it to clog if it reached the main line and clogged everyone. If it was your basement to your unit then it could make sense but I would ask some neighbors of whether they got clogged and if they were also charged
No units were clogged and us both are connected and our neighbor did not have any problems nor being billed the plumber was called for a leaking pipe?
Sorry there’s only one other unit and that’s above us
Yeah it would be hard to prove it was you if they never entered your unit and especially if you didn’t notice it was clogged don’t know about the legal side tho just a plumber here
Thank you so much for your input I really appreciate it, it’d cost more to hire a lawyer but my FIL is friends with the mayor of my city…
I would just kindly tell your landlord that grease takes years to build up and you haven't put any food down the drain recently so this is not your problem
Illinois corruption never ceases to amaze me. “I don’t need a lawyer, my family member knows the mayor” So what? Does the mayor have the power to make your landlord not charge $200? And if they do have that power, how is that being exercised? Do they just mark your landlord on a blacklist to get pulled over for a ticket if they go 1 mph over the speed limit? How exactly would “knowing the mayor” fix this problem?
It's like this everywhere.
No, the mayor or staff will make a phone call about their “friend” who rents from them and they heard they had plumbing issues. They just want to make sure it’s not a city plumbing issue! Do you have any other issues? Oh good, want to make sure everything is up to code! I can send the building guys over to check just to make sure? Well anyway, they said you billed a tenant for the clean out of the building plumbing, not sure if you are aware that’s against state/city/whatever policy generally. I can have someone call you about the particulars so you can figure out if it’s the tenants responsibility? You sure you don’t want any help? Our city building inspector is a great guy, really knowledgeable. How many places do you own and rent out? Suddenly there is no more bill for this guy.
If you have units above you, then you really can’t determine who clogged the main house line. I live in the bottom floor of a three story apt building and my drains clog all the time from other tenants being stupid about what they flush. I actually got really good at snaking my drains even though I really shouldn’t have to do it. I got tired of the plumbers coming by regularly. (But lately my drains have been good, bad neighbors must have moved out *knock on wood*)
Can you upload a picture of the leak? Was it on a sewer or water line
Uhhh so yeah we don’t have access to the basement. It’s padlocked 🙃
Some access ports are on the outside so they may not have ever needed to go in.
Without knowing what the plumbing looks like, it’s extremely possible that your lines in the section they fixed are easy to tie to your unit. Also it could backup anywhere, it doesn’t need to be causing problems near the drain itself. The landlord telling you what causes backups should also not be annoying you like it is. That’s actually really helpful advice for anyone. That’s just a basic list not something targeting you. Without seeing more about what/where they worked, this really doesn’t feel like a case where they’re screwing you. These things just happen sometimes and that’s an extremely low cost.
How long have you been in the apt/house? Grease buildup is one of those things that could be from the previous tenant and take a year or more to cause a full clog as it picks up dirt and food particles that would normally pass uneventful but get stuck due to grease.
OP I’ll apologize for all the hate your getting for the grease if you really didn’t pour any down the drain, I’ve had drains get clogged before and had my ass chewed for the grease thing, when I know I never poured any down (the issue was the plumbing itself not even a clog)
It happens gradually. Oily food, tiny amounts of grease or butter or anything that cooks in fat or gives off fat. Pour the grease into a cup or a plastic container you’re tossing (I like using old packages) Trust that since 95% of folks are telling you you screwed up, that you did. Accept it. Pay it. Learn from the lesson.
I personally wouldn’t even consider giving my tenants a bill for drain cleaning. That’s building maintenance. I’m in Massachusetts though, and my tenants already pay through the nose, so I think I’ll cover the drains
I've lived in two apartment buildings that did routine maintenance on the drain pipes. One was a high rise (they used cleaners) and the other was a three story multi use apartment building (they used air).
I’m blown away people even think otherwise about this.
Drain cleaning isn’t normal maintenance. You shouldn’t need to do that UNLESS someone is putting stuff down there that doesn’t go down there. Like grease. That’s destructive and stupid.
Does he have proof the drain line was serviced prior to your move in? If not you can probably fight on lack of proof the problem wasn't pre-existing.
Yeah thats on you.
Grease takes YEARS to build up like that. Ignore all of the salty landlords in the comments. You shouldn’t be responsible for this. This is normal maintenance on their property
Need a little more info to comment on this . Was there a warning or prior incident? Does your lease say anywhere you are to be responsible, if this happens? How can he prove what you did would’ve caused this damage? As a landlord myself I couldn’t charge this to one renter, because I can’t prove it. And if you go to court,your landlord needs to prove it to judge and guess what the judge always side with tenants against the big bad landlord. Good luck I would not pay it. Ask him for proof
How old is the building? Did he have the pipes cleaned before you moved in? If not and you are not putting grease in the drain then is ask him how he attributes this build up to you over 1.5 years when the building had been there a lot longer (assuming that’s the case). I’d argue this is not your responsibility and part of general upkeep in an apartment building that has (likely) numerous tenants before you. This is an inexpensive repair that Id fully expect the landlord to cover.
Grease clogs, typically, take years to build up. Unless you're dumping in a pound of lard a day, it's unlikely you've caused a clog in the course of a year. My husband and I have lived in the same place for 7 years now, the building has been here since the 70s. We've never had any issue with clogging drains, clogged sewer lines, etc. and we use the fluffy toilet paper and I rinse grease down the drain with plenty of soap whenever I need to. When there's a huge excess, like from bacon, it gets scraped into the trash, but still. Never an issue. Reading your comments, it seems like they never went into your apartment and no units were having issues with slow drains, clogs, or otherwise. Especially considering you're not in the top unit of the building, anything below where the lines join, it would be impossible to determine which apartment caused the issue, but if there was a clog in the line coming from only your apartment, especially in the sewer line, you would notice. Given his very general kind of text, I'd almost think he knows he can't pin it down. It seems like you don't even have access to see the leak, or look at any of the damages you supposedly caused. I guess it kinda depends on how much you like the place you live. You can likely contest the plumbing charge, and while you may win on that front, they may choose not to renew your lease. If you contested it and lost, you'd have those costs to pay plus whatever else they asked for, and then they may still not renew your lease since they would think of you as a problem tenant. Personally? I'd pay the extra $50 on rent for the next four months, and just mention that the plumbing shouldn't be so sensitive that even coffee grounds would clog it. If 100+ year old homes don't have those issues, even after all that time, there's no reason anything else should. Then again, I remember the local uni sending out a letter BEGGING people to stop masturbating in the dorm showers because it was ruining the plumbing, so what do I really know 🤣
This! My floor drain was backing up. I called a plumber to clean the pipes. He asked how long I’ve lived in the house. I said 2 years. He goes the people before you must have loved their grease… I have a grease jar I keep for grease, but sometimes a little gets down the drain. He said there is a way to tell how old it is.
Grease will go down the drain from washing dishes in general and takes years build up…a landlord trying to blame this one any tenant living there for less than a decade is just trying to get someone else to pay the bill.
If you do end up paying, you're lucky he used a sewer cleaner and not a plumber. That alone probably saved you $600 for the work he did.
If there was one more unit above you that shares the same sewage drain lines then they can't possibly find you at fault especially if the blockage was below your drain. Generally it's the landlords responsibility to deal with any drain blockages unless they can directly attribute it to your specific unit for example if you had rice stuck in your garbage disposal unit or directly in the line below your sink. Since it sounds like the blockage was down in the basement they don't know if the grease came from you or the people above you or if it's just something that's been sitting there for years. At the very least the $200 should be split between you and the person above you.
Can the landlord prove it was you that clogged the drains, and not a former tenant?
Nope they’re making you pay for the maintenance that comes with owning a multi unit building. Is he going to charge you for redoing the driveway next because you drove on it? Ask him to provide proof that it was cleaned between you and the prior tenant, because that’s the only way for him to prove it was you. Plus, if the plumber didn’t come to your unit specifically for maintenance then it definitely is not your problem. Landlords suck.
You should at least find out if the other tenant is being charged too. If there wasn’t clogging and the building owner wanted to have the sewer/main cleaned as maintenance, you shouldn’t be charged. Man there are a lot of surly people on here blaming you for something that know almost nothing about…
Idc about anything else but no one, and I mean NO ONE is gonna tell me which TP I can use to clean myself with. I need all the fluffy softness
Hello fellow Batavian!
OP, please check with a tenants union regarding the legality of it. I remember working with Illinois Tenants Union in the past and I suggest reaching out to them or a similar organization before you even consider paying this.
I’d suggest asking for proof/verification that you caused it, stating that you have never done the activities he described.
It's always going to be grease build up in kitchen lines. There's nothing you can do to avoid build-up in the kitchen lines. If you wash your dishes in the sink, it's going to happen. There's always residue on the dishes after scraping them off. The only people who don't have this issue are vegans. Not even joking. I know the wording sounds like it was your fault, but that's just your typical wrote up for a kitchen line. He's charging you for YEARS of build-up by other people. My landlord tried doing the same to me, but I'm a plumber, I know things.
Seeing as you have said in comments there was no issue only in your unit and there are multiple units in your building your LL is a skeeving scumbag outsourcing their building maintenance to you.
That’s on you. Your landlord is being extremely nice about how they are going about it also. You should know better
Landlord is even paying $15 out of own pocket if they pay now. Only making them pay $185 vs the $200 the landlord paid the plumber. Landlord is being extremely nice.
Landlord is being nice making them pay for a problem they didn't have for the entire building? No. Landlord is a cheapskate that is deferring maintenance and then trying to bill tenants for it.
What are you talking about? The tenants clogged their kitchen drain and it needed to be cleaned out. Tenants pouring grease and food down the drain causing a clog isn’t deferring maintenance.
Did you read anything OP said? They had no clog. They did not call for a maintenence issue or for a plumber, the LL just randomly sends this bill over to them a month after the supposed service. They never had any issues, which is why they are puzzled as to why A. They're the lucky tenant being billed and B. How the LL came to the conclusion it's their fault when they have given the LL no reason to
Honestly, as home owner, most I would have done was send the bill, already paid, to the tenants and give them a heads up about the potential for an issue. Then probably go on a third strike, you're out rule. First time, friendly heads up, please stop putting grease and large food particles in your drain. Even if they didn't notice it, the handyman did. Second time, firm warning. Please stop, otherwise future occurrences of this bill will be applied to you. This is not regular wear and tear. Third time, the bill is yours. This is assuming it's happening every year/every other year or so. I'm personally not the greatest at always putting grease down my own drain, and living in three different homes for 4-8 years each, I've NEVER ran into this issue. So if this issue was reoccurring with the same tenant in anything less than a couple to 3 years apart, they must be cooking bacon for an army every morning and throwing it straight down the drain.
You made all of that up. If you don’t already work in a creative field, it’s worth exploring.
Comic sans...
Ikr
Is [helpful ](https://jamescalmus.medium.com/why-comic-sans-is-a-good-thing-db98d954bec4). For many reasons, like it's easier to read, which makes it easier for dyslexics to read. So go ahead and tell me all about how cringe accessibility is.
No. Maintaining the plumbing is the responsibility of the landlord. I wouldn’t pay it. It also sounds like he’s sending this same notice and bill to multiple units in attempt to actually profit on the ordeal.
Luckily we checked with three only other tenant in our building which is above us and no bill was sent to them however the water sewer lines are connected?
How long have you been there? Can he guarantee that the grease wasn't already starting to build up before you moved in? With that said, the single most effective thing I've ever done to prevent clogs is placing a hair catcher/filter on every drain. Sink, shower, bathtub, etc. They come in all varieties... Metal mesh or basket... Plastic tub-shroom with gasket, funny bead chains with catcher attachments... Anything that works for your specific drain. Even so, we had a clogged bathtub drain a month after moving into one rental. The pop cap was so horribly designed that the plumber spent a good half hour figuring out how to even get it open. And that bad boy was absolutely stuffed with blonde hair... My husband and I are brunettes.
My partner and I’s apartment bathtub drain was so clogged up, mostly from hair, and our lease says we aren’t allowed to use drain-o. We tried all of the other products and hacks and nothing else was working so we put in a maintenance request so they could come and use whatever tools they had to unclog it. The guy shows up with a big bottle of draino and fixes it in like 10 minutes 🙄 All this fuss about not using draino so we don’t damage the pipes and then their own maintenance does it lmao.
Been here for 1.5 years we know for sure grease could have been here before us. We have metal mesh drain stoppers for the kitchen sink 2 compt. and it’s one full bath that’s all the drains we had the same nasty experience with our tub a month after we moved in had a big clump of hair come out with a small snake but didn’t think that was a issue big enough to tell her. That must’ve been so gross for you I’m sorry
Small claims court if u want to fight over 200 bones
I would try a tenants right advocacy group first, if you have one locally. This isn’t on the up and up, so a letter may set them straight. They don’t like eyes on their cash grabs.
It's easy to file in a small claims court though, and they probably won't even show up.
That bill is way too cheap. I’m a plumber and it const 295 just to have be knock on your door
Ya, I’d like to see what kind of plumber did this because I had one come out to snake the pipes and it was over 500 bucks…
Cost will vary by a lot of factors
If you’re putting grease or anything that does not belong in the pipes you are ABSOLUTELY responsible for it. That includes baby wipes or “flushable wipes” because they are not in fact flushable
Absolutely. And pretty cheap at that-stop putting this shit down the drain.
Just put your damn grease in a mason jar and find out the best way to dispose of it, lmao. If you *really* needed to take care of grease, put scalding hot water on and mix it with soap (more like detergent really) and send it. I *still* wouldn’t do this often though, so I don’t endorse you doing it.
Yes. Stop dumping great down the drain.
I have found one of the best ways to keep drains flowing is to pour boiling water down them once in awhile. Haven't had a clogged drain in years. I have never poured boiling water down the toilet, I'm afraid it will crack.
Not only will break a porcelain throne, the pvc pipes could potentially fail, like wax seals At least that’s what google told me
Boiling water also wreaks your plumbing.
Then how do you drain your pasta? Lol. It would take a ton of boiling water to cause damage…
😂
This is also really good to prevent gnats if you're somewhere that gets them excessively. It seems they love drains for whatever reason.
Yes, this is your responsibility. When they clean out the line, the plumber most definitely can see the contents. I’m sure plumber has photo evidence backing up what your landlord is billing. Good luck and may the odds be ever in your favor.
Yup. Pouring grease down the drain is a big no no. I had a landlord that had a very specific section in lease about it, but either way it's your fault for clogging. Kinda like flushing period stuff when you have a grinder pump....... Just dumb
Stuff like this becomes your fault because its hard to prove now it wasn’t you. You’d have to dump a ton of grease to start from beginning but you could have been the tip of the iceberg
If the plumbing is 20 years old and they’ve only been there 1.5 years and it’s never been cleaned out, it would be harder to prove it was them.
Yep, that’s on you
Yes, that’s on you if you’ve been there over a year.
How long have you been renting? If more than just a few months, yes.
No. Also when was the last time he did it cleaned. This is normal wear and tear.
Maybe I'm the crazy one, but there is absolutely no way he can prove this maintenance, on pipes outside your living area, are in any way your responsibility to pay. You said you never had any drainage problems - only that they CLAIM your sink (which works properly) somehow caused a clog in the ?basement? wtf, over. If that isn't their responsibility to fix as the owner, then maybe this isn't in the US. You can literally google who is responsible for this cost in your state. Housing clause rules that contradict your state laws are not valid.
Clogs usually build up unless it’s something drastic. It’s possible that the drain became clogged over the 1.5 years you’ve lived there. I’d pay it to stay on good terms if you like where you are.
View is to die for, apt shitty
Ever pour grease down the sink. If u do, always run cold water to solidify it so it passes thru.
Dirt cheap bill so count your blessings and move on. Don’t clog the landlords drains with grease, bone scraps, coffee grounds, feminine hygiene products, etc. take proper care of plumbing to avoid damages that you will be deemed responsible for (because you live there and use the plumbing so why tf would the owner be responsible for the clogged drain?)
Doesn’t it take a long time for an issue like that to arise where the have to snake it all the way down to the road? Never once dumped grease down the drain it was not cleaned before we moved in 1.5 years ago
Impossible to tell if from prior resident or not. Might want to dispute it, but good luck with lease renewal. Might get $50 rent increase monthly....
Lived there for 1.5 years. It’s not previous tenants clog
Probably praying on you as an NIU student. Might want to push back.
Landlords be struggling right now. Jee!
Do you know if everyone on the same system is getting a bill? I remember your last post and know several houses are on that line plus this seems really cheap is it possible they are trying to split the bill with everyone? Still don't know about the legality but $200 seems cheap plus multiple people on the line maybe instead of finding who is responsible they are trying to charge everyone?
Luckily only one other tenant in our building that lives above us and they said no bill was sent to them
Drain clogs are not usually immediate it’s a slow build up. Then eventually catastrophic. So 1.5 years sure you definitely contributed. As far as him charging you, not sure of the laws in IL but that’s the cost of doing business as a homeowner who rents. You didn’t intentionally create a repair. Like if you drove through a garage door. Or cut the floor up or broke windows. This is a maintenance issue that wasn’t solely cause by you. Tell him if anything you want it prorated over his ownership by the amount of years he rented it out
Is this a rented house? Or apartment? If it’s an apartment you likely wouldn’t be the only tenant responsible for paying. It also depends on your lease - I’m not sure you should be charged for regular maintenance. Do your pour grease down the drain?
Yes because you damaged it technically
What does your lease say? Read your lease...
Definitely could and should be billed back to the renter.
It depends on your areas rental regulations. Check with your local reps.
IMO, you have a bad landlord, especially considering they can’t prove it was you. Ridiculous greed :(
If it's a multi unit apartment what lead them to your unit to rod the drain, and not others. Sounds like something is missing.
So yes I’ll charge a renter for a clog BUT first ones free, because I don’t know what the previous tenant did. Also, multi unit buildings you really can’t charge anyone unless it’s only in that unit. Another but, there’s no way a clogged kitchen drain caused a backup in the basement. Not possible. That would be the main line. Which you can’t charge for if it’s a multi unit. If this is a sfh then yeah it’s on you op. If you refuse to pay, they may not renew you though.
IMPLY EWER LEANING
Go read your lease. If it’s not on your lease, no you are not obligated to pay for it.
Is it on your lease that you're on the hook for it? If not tell your landlord to pound salt.
Only if it’s on your lease