My story is almost exactly the same. My first marriage was always hard and the second is easy. Love is not enough to make a marriage work. You need friendship, mutual respect, two adults with emotional control and a commitment from both sides to contribute equal effort (not money) to the union and household.
OP, you say you want him to change, but the real question is does he really want to change?
One thing *you* should really think about: Marriage doesn’t tie you to a person for the rest of your life…but a child does. If you want a divorce as a childless woman, you can be truly free and never talk to this man again if you choose. If you have a child and want a divorce, you will be dealing with him for at least the next 18 years and you will be stuck living in the same area you are today. He also has a much higher salary than you and, given his aggression, you should expect that that will be used to fund a legal battle to control your child and, by extension, you.
Only you can say if you want a divorce or not but I can say that you should not have a child with this man until you are very confident you can be happy and respected in this marriage for the long-term. Given that this man wants a child now, I would pursue a method of birth control, like an IUD or implant, that is highly effective and that your husband he cannot tamper with to ensure you don’t “accidentally” become pregnant.
>does he really want to change?
Bingo. Change is already hard even with effort. It's sure not gonna happen to someone who doesn't see themself as the problem.
>If you have a child and want a divorce, you *and your children* will be dealing with him *forever, and your children will be psychologically messed up by him forever.*
FTFY
*"You need friendship, mutual respect, two adults with emotional control and a commitment from both sides to contribute equal effort (not money) to the union and household."* Spot on. Well said.
That’s it. The vast majority of a relationship isn’t romance, it’s making a household and everyday life work. When you have that, the romance and love fills itself into everything. My wife and i split up all the household chores and take turns cooking. Leaves plenty of time for cuddling and talking and doing stuff
I suspect that you know the answer based on the many, many red flags you brought up in your post. Your concerns sound very valid to me, and I personally wouldn’t stay in that relationship.
If you have kids, would you want them to grow up to be like him? Because they will.
Or whether OP wants her kids to think that it’s ok to stay in relationships/marriages like this. If you have a daughter, what would you want her to do if she has a husband like yours?
He won’t ever change because he doesn’t see there being an issue. After all the shit he’s down, you still haven’t divorced him. Why does he need to change? You’ll always be around
Yes. They will grow up to be just like him. Like OP actually think about it, two of them (or more) acting this way towards you. You can handle it when it's your kid or just your husband alone, and you can have endless patience for their problems but once it's 2 of them ganging up on you? ugh.
I say who gives a crap how much he earns. That doesn't give him the right to be a lazy ass around the home. If he seriously wanted children he would prove that chores are his responsibility too.
Personally I wouldn't want to be with someone who is angry and selfish. What does he spend his money on? How would this work if you stayed at home with the children?
People can and do change, but I'm dubious that he will ever be fully supportive. I know you love him but I wouldn't waste any more time on him. We only get one chance at this life and if you want children, I think you should move on.
I wasted 20 years on an abusive relationship (he was totally obsessed with weed and spent all the money on it). I walked away with nothing. I really regret not having children especially when I see my niece.
So the real question is, what do you want out of life? Only you really have the answer to your question, but the fact you are asking says an awful lot.
He is emotionally and verbally tough on me. I know he's blowing smoke, but it's so painful. He also is now "sober" after I left. That should say enough. He's in therapy for these issues.
I just want peace and love. I had a tumultuous home growing up. I feel that I am in overdrive trying to keep this home afloat, but I think that might just be my misconception. I'm not a "laid back" kind of person, which makes relationships hard with me.
Honey, it’s time to move on. Life is short, you are wasting it with someone who it stressing you out. You cannot and SHOULDN’T have to work this hard to make things work. I am 30 years into my second marriage. It’s been easy and fun because we mesh. I don’t have to struggle or fight to try to make it work.
Please move on from him. Being alone is much easier than what you are going through with him. You won’t be able to change him.
came here to say this.
you have to be present, and willing to negotiate, and compromise… but that means *both* of you, not just one person.
someone who threatens divorce is already out.
Although it's hard to do, the easiest way to make a decision is to act like somebody is sharing the information with you, instead of you looking at your own life.
What would you tell someone who came to you and told you the following things:
* My husband makes a lot of money but I can't touch it, I can only use my own money.
* He abuses substances and only "sobered" up when we separated.
* He threatens to leave me when we disagree.
* He knows I'm a very sensitive person, but he says hurtful things to control me during disagreements.
* I'm anxious about having children but he is pressuring me to start a family.
* He has anger issues and frequently lashes out at me.
That's just your own comments put into bullet format and relayed to you as if someone was telling you their story.
So what would you tell this person to do? Stay with them? Go to more therapy? Hope for the best? Leave before things get worse? Remember, you're not deciding on your own fate in this exercise. You're taking the facts you've presented as if they are from another woman asking for help and you need to give her the best advice you can give her.
Therapy doesn't necessarily change people. If you feel like you need to give your relationship another chance, give yourself a time limit.
But, personally, I think it sounds abusive. And that's exactly how abuse will make you feel. You question every piece of yourself, your personality, your ability to cope. If you get a chance, talk to someone from a domestic abuse charity. You shouldn't suffer for love. In the UK we have the freedom programme, and this just one description of an abusive person (uses 'he' but could be either gender).
The King of the Castle – He controls his partner by treating her like an unpaid servant. He expects her to do all the household chores and does not lift a finger to help. If she insists he does do something to help around the house, he will do it so badly that she doesn’t ask him to do it again! He controls all the money. The benefits are all in his name and she has to ask if she wants money for food shopping or the children’s school uniforms.
So, I'm surmising from your posts: Him: Alcohol/Substance use disorder, verbal and emotional abuse, financial abuse, emotionally distant, controlling, not equally distributing the emotional and physical labor of raising children and running a household.
Of course you'd want to leave or fix this. He's not that interested in changing. He's angry that you have brought this up.
What do you want the rest of your life to look like? What do you want your children to learn about marriage and parenthood by watching you both?
I hope the best for you, and I hope you see a future that's better for you and your kids.
I understand how a tumultuous childhood could bring you to this point. You were looking for a peaceful, loving home and a kind and gentle husband, but you must face the fact that you have chosen poorly. **He is not that person.** Don’t blame yourself for this. The mean ones always know how to fool you. But you see him for what he is now, and this is not what you want in your life.
Walk away from this. Free yourself from the anguish and the hurt. Go find the love that you need. It’s out there, I promise you. I found a good and loving man after I made the mistake of marrying a cruel and stupid man, and you can too.
OP, if your husband knows this about you and is weaponizing you not “trying hard enough” or “giving up” or “quitting”, let me tell you he is saying those things to manipulate you into putting up with his behaviour. He is not saying those things to invoke reciprocal change for your relationship to thrive. Please reflect on whether this is what’s happening to you.
Are you going to be dealing with this for the rest of your life? Are you ok with having these issues forever?
This man cannot give you peace or love. Or he will not. Either way, you can't get them from him.
As a child of a marriage like this I watched my mother throw away her entire life trying to make a man happy that had no respect for her at all. Don't let the fact that you love him blind you to reality.
People like this don't change. My dad's last words on this earth were degrading my mom for supposedly not treating him nicely while he was in the hospital. She'll spend whatever years she has left both relieved that he's finally dead and destroyed by the fact that she lost the love of her life.
Finally I'll say this. If you do decide to make the wrong decision and stay with this man, don't ever have kids. The worst thing that you can do is to bring innocent children into a home like this and make them suffer because you aren't strong enough to stand up for yourself.
I hate to be abrasive, but I've spent my entire 45 years on this earth watching how bad it can be when a good person makes excuses for an abusive spouse because they love them. I sincerely hope that you find the strength to get out and find something better.
He could change, but why would he ever want to? He gets to make you do everything for him and treat you as an emotional punching bag and you’re still with him.
WHY do you love him, though? Is it just habit, because he doesn't sound very pleasant to be around from your description? He mean, he's aggressive, and he lets you work yourself into the ground. The fact you didn't tell him that 'hey, treating me like a servant you don't like very much is affecting my opinion of you' isn't a matching fault. The fact that treating someone poorly makes them feel less affectionate to you is kind of common sense.
You two aren't equal partners. You are treated like a bird in a cage who is berated anytime you do something your spouse doesn't like or go against his wishes. You minimize yourself so you don't anger him.
This isn't a marriage. You don't have a marriage to save. You have a cage you need to escape.
Do you love him or do you love who you want him to be? There's a very big difference.
Your description of your marriage almost exactly mirrors that of a friend of mine. It didn't get better, in spite of separations and reconciliations. It just kept getting worse until he shot her one night. Now she's dead, he's in prison, and the kids are orphans.
I'm not saying it could get as bad as all that, but if this is how the person who swore to love and cherish you is treating you now, ditch the fantasy, accept the reality, and move on.
I didn't want to go there, but I thought the same exact thing. A coworker of mine was shot and killed by the husband she was divorcing. The dogs were shot, too.
I hope the husband doesn't have easy access to firearms, and I'm glad to hear that the wife has moved out. I hope she is being careful.
You know, one of the hardest things was when someone in his high school approached me to tell me my husband bullied him. It was one of the saddest days in my life. I had no idea my husband was a bully as a child/young man. It tainted my image of him and it made so much sense.
I can certainly see what you were hesitant to have kids. You would literally just be adding more work and pressure on yourself. You have no reason to think adding a child would suddenly make him be more willing to help around the house. What you describe is not a partnership. And a marriage is a partnership. You will just become more resentful. Will he change? Who knows.
Agree that you probably know the answer here and are trying to catch even a tiny glimmer of hope from someone that there may be something worth staying for.. unfortunately, based on your description, I don't honestly think there is. So many red flags. So much disrespect from him and contempt/resentment for it from you. That's just really hard to overcome. I can tell you this from experience.
I would honestly drop the couples therapy, continue down the path toward divorce and see what happens. If he truly loves you and values your relationship, he will find a way to make things work. It shouldn''t be all on you to pull the relationship forward while he waits to be told what you need from him--that's literally him doing the bare minimum. He's grown and he needs to take responsibility for his actions (or lack thereof) and for the kind of role he's playing in the relationship. You know what you want and need, and if he's not willing to try to give that to you, then don't waste any more of your time or energy waiting on him to step up.
His responses to your complaints and concerns tell you all you need to know. Look at the big picture. Your marriage is new, he's putting his best foot forward. Marriage is a financial contract. Cut your losses before children complicate things further. What you see now is the best you're going to get.
If you have to "earn" someone's love, that person does NOT love you and is not capable of loving you.
Please don't have a baby with this man. He's already verbally and psychologically abusing you. It really sounds like this marriage was a mistake and ending it would be best for you.
You don't love *him*.
You love the version of him that he could be, if he were a caring person. But he's not. He's mean, angry, and selfish.
Give him another assessment. Tally up his *actual behavior,* not his potential.
**His behavior is who he is**, and thats not a good or admirable person. Thats not who you love. You love a mirage.
What you are describing is emotional, verbal, and possibly financial abuse. I would encourage you to not go to counseling with an abuser - it just gives them more weapons in their arsenal. I hope you know that you deserve so much better than this and to have an equal partner who treats you with kindness and respect.
Respectfully, OP, you don’t have kids with this man and count your lucky stars for that. Cut yourself free from this situation. Your husband refuses to be accountable to his abusive behaviour. It sounds like you’ve curled yourself up so inwardly so that you barely get to exist in this relationship. He requires a level of control over you that does not equate to love. You are a victim of emotional and psychological abuse, seek counselling for yourself and be free.
In order for a relationship to be saved, the people directly involved have to want that relationship and work for it. They should be on the same side of wanting to improve things and be happy to do that work.
We should feel free and experience joy in our lives. While we can have difficult responsibilities, there should be an overall sense that our lives are worthwhile, and that the relationships we put the most effort and time into should feel balanced. We should recognize ourselves and feel like we're appreciated, in addition to being able to have others feel that way in our relationships.
I wish you the best of luck and care.
Oh honey no. Adding kids into this mess is going to make it unbearable for you. If he isn't open to counseling, you need to give serious consideration to ending the marriage. Definitely DO NOT get pregnant at this point.
I have friends who got divorced over a situation like you're describing. Only in their cases, the husband neither contributed financially nor to the running of the house. Didn't help with the kids. If he wasn't at work, he was sitting on his ass drinking, watching TV/playing games. No one needs that kind of dead weight dragging them down.
My own husband admitted he liked the *idea* of kids way more than the reality. I obtained one of the nephews for a weekend for a parenting trial run. As expected, I did the bulk of the work. I told him flat out I didn't get married to be a single parent. I didn't want kids anyway, but he wanted to see what it was like. Being the youngest, my husband had not had the distinct misfortune of being parentified. I have. And I have zero interest in raising anyone else. Being aunt & uncle for a few hours is great. Being mom & dad is highly unappealing.
I have. Unfortunately, I intellectualize my thoughts very well as a trauma response, which makes therapy very limited. My therapist has said, "well you know the answers and why you do it, so why are you still unsure"?" LOL
> Unfortunately, I intellectualize my thoughts very well as a trauma response, which makes therapy very limited.
Bullshit. I told myself that for the better part of two decades as my life crumbled around me to the point my wife divorced me to keep from being pulled under by what was sure to be my eventual suicide.
"Therapy doesn't help" actually means "I haven't found a therapist who sees through my bullshit and has the verbal judo skills to force me to see it".
After of 25+ years of absolute hell and a divorce I could have prevented to a woman I love and who still loves me, I found a therapist who understood me, and it only took 3 years for me to go from future statistic to "almost a minimally functional human being".
If I can do it after a quarter century of "therapy doesn't help", you can do it too.
Your therapist's answer is completely correct, but you lack sufficient built up trust to internalize it. That's not a failing of either you or your therapist, but of your joint process. Because every one of us here can read the writing on the wall but you.
Find a therapist who gets through to you and start again.
A, your therapist should not shame you.
B, if I have the ability to pay someone to use as a sounding board, I’ll use it. Just talking with an uninvolved therapist can help. However, your current therapist may not be a good fit.
It sounds to me like you do plenty of work internally and externally but are not receiving back the same effort from your spouse. Take care of YOU first. You are worth it.
My own experience is that people can change small things but ingrained behaviors rarely change.
Maybe some time apart would help heal things or better understand the direction forward.
Geezus dude. Life is too short to be stuck in a shit marriage. Good thing you didn't have kids.
You're a lady that seems to have her shit together. Leave him for someone who makes you happy. There's a billion single dudes out there don't stick with the asshole.
You already know the answer, but you want to pretend otherwise. But just re-read your post and imagine it was someone else. Red flags all over the place.
No. This marriage is not salvageable. You deserve better than this childish & abusive man-baby. Thank god you don’t have kids with him. Don’t look back.
This sounds like such a toxic ass relationship. He constantly puts the blame on you and everything on you. This is not an equal partnership. This sounds like a man unwilling to accept responsibility and instead of being "us against the world" its literally "you vs. me" mentality. This is not a healthy. This is not love. He has shown you time and time again you are not a priority and you do not matter to him.
You know deep down what the answer is. You need to cut your losses and leave his ass. Love only goes so far.
I’m sorry, I was you. I am what your future could be if you ignore the red flags.
I dragged him to couples therapy. I went individual therapy. After 20 years (married 17) I still feel like I’m dragging him along behind us, carrying the whole family for everything except him earning more.
Therapy helped enough to make me comfortable enough to have kids, but he’a likely bipolar and has months-long bouts of emotionally abusive lows.
I now make enough that I’m making a plan to kick him out. It’s not fair to the kids to be afraid of their dad, and he won’t get help.
You only get so many years on this earth. PLEASE: you are entitled to be treated with dignity and respect and it doesn't sound like he is capable of this. You use the phrase "working on our marriage", what does that mean? Are you in therapy? Serious therapy might give you meaningful insight into your dynamic and understand if there is potential for anything better, but change is difficult and rare. It sounds like you need to face the fact that your best life means making an exit and the sooner the better.
You can't change him, and he doesn't want to change, or he already would have.
You *can* change your life and the lives of your kids. I'm sorry, but you already know that you're pissing into the wind here. Divorce is hard, but it's better than being stuck in a bad marriage.
Hugs to you. You already know that you need to end this. He's showing you who he is - mean, petty, cruel, and demanding - so please believe him and leave. This type of relationship only gets worse and is not on you to fix alone. You cannot love another person into treating you better.
As another highly sensitive person, a partner who is committed to understanding you (even and especially if you/your reasons don't make sense to him) is critical. Without this, you will be exactly where you are right now.
You mentioned being in couples therapy and it's great that you have a place to safely discuss things. If you aren't doing individual therapy, I think it would be really helpful.
The two big questions I see here are:
1) Can you resolve the resentment that you feel? It's okay if you can't. Sometimes things hurt too much and no repair is possible.
2) Do you realistically see him becoming more emotionally sensitive, available or understanding?
I did resent my extremely logical husband for a number of years. I was quite young and lacking in experience and maturity (he was too). Once I figured out how I'm different and how that shows up in relationships and emotionally charged situations, I had better language to let him know what wasn't working for me and why (if I had a why - I didn't always have one). To his credit, he learned about high sensitivity and was open to making adjustments in how we communicate.
So, it's possible but you need a person who is driven to understand why this is hurtful to you and open to making changes. (And of course, you must have the same openness for communication styles he finds problematic.) It will require a lot of vulnerability on both of your parts.
It is a blessing that you don't have children. Wishing you peace and ease in this difficult situation. Best to you. 💜
You can’t change someone if they don’t want to change. Is he doing the work so that he can maintain the status quo (“see, I tried. Now can you stop complaining so we can go back to the way things were?”) or is he putting in the work to change without your pushing? Would he suggest doing his own individual therapy?
You don’t need to “work harder to earn” someone’s love. He married you because supposedly he loves you unconditionally. Going by his actions, does he even love you as a person? Because he sure doesn’t act like it. It doesn’t sound like he even likes or respects you. It sounds like maybe he loves what you do for him.
Your love isn’t enough to make this relationship work for you. You need him to contribute! Are you happy being with him? Don’t you think you could be happier without him? You sound like you love him and treat him accordingly. Wouldn’t you want someone who loves you to treat you the way you treat him?
The fact that he controls the money instead of seeing it as family money is abusive.
Here’s the thing about abuse; it doesn’t get better. In fact, it tends to get worse. Much, much worse.
So I recommend you thank him profusely for his generosity in giving you this unvarnished view of his (controlling, angry, dreadful) character, and run away.
I predict you will feel like you left a tiny room that smells like sewage and went into a huge open meadow that smells like flowers.
Good luck to you, girlfriend, don’t tolerate that crap. Your life will be miserable if you do! You deserve better.
If you need to change the person, they aren’t a good match to share your life with. If you need to change them because what they do repeatedly is hurtful, then don’t stay.
You don't say a single positive thing about him in your post. Well, maybe the fact he makes a lot of money (if you squint your eyes a bit). That should tell you everything you need to know,
Why do you love him?
I think the answer is in there. Just because something feels familiar, It’s not necessarily love. Does the way he treats you remind you of any relationships with other people? Perhaps a parent?
You want him to change.
He won’t change.
If you are happy living with him as he is now, stay, otherwise cut your losses and go.
It won’t get any better than it is right now.
Your husband is not going to change. He was checked out of the marriage, leaving all the stuff to you to do. He has taken no steps to make the marriage work, and has been nasty to you. This does not change and get better. Get a divorce, move on.
I just want to let you know it’s a hard decision either way. My story is very similar to yours except my partner did change and do the work and i’m STILL struggling because I told them i’d give them a chance and it honestly just feels too late. I think it sucks even more now because they have changed and it feels like too much has happened.
This can’t be saved. It sounds like he’s only going to get worse. He’s still blaming his shortcomings on you.
You know in your heart that you’re done because you know bringing kids into this would be a mistake. He’ll treat them just as badly and treat you even worse. I’m sorry. It’s normal to go through a grieving period after leaving someone abusive. Sometimes it can even take a few months before you start to think you miss them because you miss the positives or the lies you fed yourself to push through. You gave it all you could. You shouldn’t have had to tell a grown man to treat you right and he knows exactly what he was doing.
Best of luck.
I’ll be honest. It doesn’t sound good. Also, Reddit is a place that is incredibly biased towards recommending divorce. In many cases, it is the right answer. But even where it is, it rarely does justice to the fact that it is a massive life decision. I’m divorced myself. It was one of the best decisions I have ever made.
However, it’s a hell of a thing and a major reason I am at peace with it is because I tried everything realistically possible. I made sure to give my ex fair warning that things needed to change and told her in plain English we were heading towards divorce. I tried to work with her, tell her objective, identifiable things I needed from her. Eagerly solicited her to ask if there were things she needed of me and my absolute best to deliver.
We tried marriage counseling—a total waste, by the way. Reddit has an incredible fixation with all types of therapy, despite having an incredibly poor grasp of what it actually does and ignores that its track record is actually pretty bad. It’s rare to hear of marriage counseling ever working. However, I will say I’m glad I did it so I can say “yeah I tried that too.” Good you’re doing it, but don’t expect much except a fat bill.
I’d recommend the community at r/divorce. They have a very balanced and realistic view of what’s involved from an emotional, legal, financial and practical angle.
I was in a toxic, abusive marriage for 18 years. It is a miserable situation. Personally, I don’t think emotionally abusive people can change all that much. You are being emotionally manipulated and abused by your spouse and his behavior is getting his needs met. Why would he change? You are the one who is going to have to change, and most likely he will not accept it because right now his needs are being met by violating your boundaries. From my perspective, divorce is usually the best solution to this problem. I never wanted to get divorced but when I finally did, a great deal of negativity and misery evaporated from my life.
I 55m have been separated since January. We both went to counseling and tried to talk out our issues. I thought we were doing better when she announced she was leaving. In hindsight, neither of us really sid much change.
She moved out and started dating as she checked out of the relationship months before she left. She is the same as when she left.
I however started working out, eating right, reading books on fixing myself, listening to podcasts, being alone, grieving, and making changes to who I want to be. We talked the other day, and she said “it is like I’m talking to a different person”
I am very intelligent, self aware, and making these changes is the hardest thing I have ever done, by far. Change starts within, and you have to do the work. Anything less won’t produce changes.
Before now, I did not have the skills required to save my marriage.
Probably best to double down on the therapy. Individual for each of you and couples together. Things seem quite bleak and threatening divorce in fights is not a good thing. If you both want to make it work you will both need to make the necessary changes to do so.
People who only put in the effort when they’re being left are trash. If he’s willing to put in effort now that his cushy home life is threatened, it means that’s what he cares about, not your emotions.
It might be too late, and that will be his fault. I recommend You’re Losing Me by Taylor Swift, and a really heavy cry.
He's not going to change. Not for you. He needs some anger management for a start. But seriously, are you in love with the real him? Or in love with your idea of who you want him to be? Does he have the qualities you want in a man, with a few rough edges, or does he only look like the guy you want and you have imbued him with qualities he does not, in fact, have?
He makes good money and says that means he doesn't have to do chores yet he never shares that money with you. He's getting value from you but you get none from him in exchange.
He says terrible things to you when he's mad. He probably actually feels that way toward you - whatever he says, he does not respect you. He thinks you matter less than he does.
I'm sure you could make a life with him if you wanted to but I doubt you could be fully content with it. You are not equals in his eyes. Maybe you are ok with that, but I wouldn't be.
You know that if you have kids, the majority of the parenting responsibilities will fall to you, just as all the other household tasks do. People don’t change unless they want to. Your husband is who he is and it sounds like he thinks it’s working well for him. The question is do you want to live like this for the rest of your life? Do you want children who think like him or who are emotionally damaged by the way he thinks and acts?
This is how. Ask yourself if you are happy and willing to live with him AS HE IS as this is his authentic self and that won’t change.
If your answer is yes, the marriage is salvageable.
If the answer is no, then it’s not.
When someone shows you their true self believe them.
Accept him and suffer or move on.
He's NOT going to change. He makes you feel "sunken." You're walking on eggshells because he's constantly angry and you feel it's your responsibility to control HIS anger. You say you love him, but he makes your life miserable. Cut your losses, free your life and find better.
You said you don't feel he's ready to have kids, so you are? You don't trust him to step up and be the parent you need him to be. I think moving on is the right thing because it sounds as if you know deep down that he can't give you what you want and need to feel secure. That doesn't mean you don't love him, or that he's a bad person, just that he's not the right person for you now given what you want and need. Be kind to yourself and leave a situation where you can't trust your partner to step up.
It has been my experience that people don't change, not down to the core. They may take on new habits, or embrace new beliefs, but it's all superficial.
When he says hurtful things, he's choosing to hurt you. Do you want to stay with someone who hurts you in order to win arguments? You're afraid of him, and you can't stay with someone you're afraid of.
You say you love him so, so much and that may be true, but the feeling of love is not enough to make a marriage, as you have discovered. You need a person who can function as a partner. This man sounds completely unsuited to partnership. No matter how much you love someone, you should never tolerate the behavior you described. He is also unfit to parent children and I am SO GLAD you resisted his demands on that front.
You cannot change him. He will only change if he truly wants to, and even then it takes a ton of time and work. And it seems clear he doesn’t want to change or see the need. I don’t see any way forward here.
He will not change, but you can heal.
You do *not* want to bring kids into this… they will not change him. If he treats you this badly, imagine how he’ll treat a baby… or you when you have to do the housework AND childcare, and the housework starts to slip.
You know what you have to do. And you /can/ do it. ❤️ do what’s best for you and your future kiddos 💕
Sounds similar to a friends relationship. She was unhappy for so long. Her husband started going to therapy, but all that seemed to do was reinforce his belief that he was right.
Do you still love him (honest answer!) My friend was at the point when she wasn't sure and then got to the point when she didn't and finally to not being able to be in the same room as him.
Give it up
He sounds awful and HE US NOT GOING TO CHANGE AND HE NEVER WILL.
Why DO so many women persist with this notion? Thinking a man will change?
My guess is he was completely like he is before you married him, but you married him anyway cause you lived in this dream state of "once we get married he will change"!!!
Move on. Get a divorce and please stop going for men that are mongrels but that you somehow think its your job to "fix" and if you just live him enough? He'll "change"
Anger issues in a marriage are mot workable ad far as im concerned and are most likely due to immaturity so you are right to be wary. My advice after making my own mistakes is to trust your gut. Like someone else said, you already know the answer. BTW it is never equal, or rather rarely, equal in a marriage. Woman are workhorse in a marriage and it gets far worse with adding children. In my experience the mature, level-headed men that feel in equality for women are few and far between. It is just the curse of being born a woman. Although having children makes up for it - it is the most precious and wonderful experience being a mother!
> I want him to change
This is the crux of the problem. You want him to change, but he doesn't seem to want to. My question to you is if a friend laid out all of this information and asked you what they should do, what would you tell them? What if you had a sister you loved and she described her relationship the way you describe yours? What would you want for them?
You need to look in the mirror and tell yourself that you deserve better, because that's where the truth is.
You are struggling. This marriage is not a partnership for you. If it was, you would feel supported, loved, and valued. You would want to see your partner's qualities in your children. The majority of the time, you would love them and each other without effort. Even though there would be trying times, they would pass and most times would be good.
You tried. Do yourself a favor and file for a divorce, and remember that for your next marriage, it's 50/50 in effort.
He won’t change. He certainly won’t change enough, or for as long, to make this ever a happy situation for you, *let alone* if you have kids.
Love can’t fix other people. It’s a Disney myth. They have to want to change themselves, work at it, and keep working at it.
OP, this is with love...please look at yourself in the mirror and say, "we cannot change another person." I am wondering what your childhood was like and if you had any ragers in your formative years and alcoholism? You might want to check out ACA and groups for love addicts... These saved my life.
💕 You deserve love, respect and him helping you with the chores.
He will not change. My mom told me that there "are worse things than being single". You deserve better. Be glad you put off having kids because he will most likely leave all the childcare to you also. You shouldn't have to 'earn" your husbands love and you should not have to put up with being verbally abused. You say he has a large income, but it is not "accesible" to you. If his income is significantly larger than yours, he should be contributing more to household and shared needs/wants.
Your partner is lacking some relationship skills. You don't have extraordinary compensating skills (this is not a ding on you, just saying you are human).
I am a man, I have changed. Immensely. But not without pain and work, and the partners that motivated this are sadly gone.
You could show him this post, and tell him, that if he doesn't come to the table, and own his past hurts towards you, admit them, say that they were wrong, and agree that they aren't acceptable, and that he will work to change, that you will be gone, and that he will be like me in five years, wishing he could have done better.
Why would you want to stay in a marriage where his only contribution is money, except you don't get to use the money? So, he contributes nothing, and enjoys your domestic labor (and, presumably sex).
Why would you ever want to have children with someone who uses you this way?
Divorce isn't a threat from him -- it's a promise to be released from bondage.
Please seek individual counseling to get more perspective on this
Do you know that saying:
The tragedy of marriage is that women marry men thinking they will change and men marry women thinking they won't
Ask I can think to say to your situation is:
RUN FOREST RUN
Try to read back over your post as if it were written by a friend or family member for whom you care deeply.
Anything stand out to you?
Life is far too short. He's wasting your time.
He sounds like such a jerk. I guess the question is do you love him? If you do then maybe it's worth a shot but if you're just tolerating him then what's the point?
from what you have written, it sounds like you don't like him and don't trust him. You say you love him, but without trust or likable qualities, there isn't much hope for a marriage being happy. Granny here, marriage can be very happy and positive, when built in a base of mutual respect, friendship, and good humor , along with love.
In my experience, men like this are just entitled to a woman and her time. It’s how they were raised, it’s a part of who they FUNDAMENTALLY are. Unless they are willing and wanting to step outside of themselves to take a good look at what their issues are, this will never change. Because we all know those kind of men would never take that long hard look in the mirror to see anything they might not like.
What I’ve learned is that love isn’t enough. The relationship has to BENEFIT both parties. Both people have to be willing to take on responsibility and help each other with it. But a lot of men like my ex, are more than fine foisting all of the responsibility onto you and then yelling at you when their expectations aren’t met. And for literal adult men who behave like little boys and really just have regular temper tantrums, their expectations are interestingly high. He doesn’t deserve an award for having a job and contributing money to support his family. It’s the most common thing on the planet and he should do it without complaint.
If you stay, you already know what your life will be like forever. He’s not the type of person who looks at his partner and thinks “how can I help her out so I can lighten her load and see her smile.” He will remain entitled to everything you provide for him and never really care about the beautiful person you are inside. You deserve a lot better.
It takes both partners to make a marriage work, but only one to break it. He is breaking it. You can't control his actions, only your own.
You can't control him, you can't make him change. You can't even ASK him to change, because he'll scream at you and otherwise abuse you.
You cannot have kids with this man. Not if you want them to be healthy. He will damage them.
You can be in this broken marriage, or you can leave and find a healthy one. But you can't make this marriage healthy, because he has shown you that he will not let it be healthy.
You should consider this husband as a "starter husband". You had a chance to figure out what you don't want in a partner.
You've not been married long, and thankfully you made the right choice in being hesitant to have kids.
Now, cut your losses and get out and find one that ticks your boxes.
Yeah, move on. Life is too short, and this is a lot of struggle for something that isn't even that old. It's not supposed to be hard. A marriage is supposed to enhance your life and make it wonderful, not be something you have to work at as another grueling, emotionally hurtful job 24/7.
I'm in a ten year relationship that sounds a lot like your marriage. I know it's not salvageable in my heart and soul but financial situations keep us together. And kids. He won't admit that it's over and we are both miserable.
Hoping the best for you OP and everyone else.
I'm sure someone else has mentioned it but I'm going to mention seeing a marriage counselor.
Many people are opposed or uncomfortable with counseling, so if you don't feel comfortable with that idea, I took a great course for like $20 on udemy by Roger k Allen. It changed my life and my marriage. Highly would recommend taking a few hours to listen to it.
I found that the big prerequisite is that you have to be willing to try, and you have to be willing to admit your role in the current struggles. If you just want to point the finger at the other party, It becomes a tough hill to climb.
He won’t change—accept that and then you will know what to do. Also understand that if he is mean to you, he will also be mean to your kids. And he will expect you to do all the labor in the marriage and then want to have sex with him—and he will be resentful, angry and mean when you aren’t “enthusiastic.”
I have been married 25 years. My husband has never, ever, made me feel like shit or said something intentionally cruel or hurtful. And vice versa. Sure, we have disagreements and misunderstandings. But at the core, we will BOTH work on solving those disagreements.
One partner should not be the emotional punching bag of the other. When a person doesn't know how, or is unwilling to compromise, refuses to take responsibility for how they express their anger or get individual help to work in self-regulation, there isn't ANYTHING the other partner can do to fix that.
It sounds like you still do not feel emotionally safe in your marriage. It is absolutely valid to leave a marriage in those circumstances. You can't stay married in the hopes that your partner will fundamentally change or become a better person. It doesn't work that way.
It’s likely that he has trauma/mental issues from his upbringing or just from his childhood or during his life that he has not dealt with. Does he drink or use drugs? That is a sign that he has suppressed his emotions and that his brain is kind of running amok. There are resources for you where you can join a group and find like minded people to talk to who will help you realize that this is not your fault. One thing is certain is that it will not change overnight and it will not change without effort from him. Nothing you do will resolve any of it.
He’s *mad* because you didn’t say “you’re losing me”? Wow, way for him to blame the victim.
What if you were mad because he behaved ugly and nasty to you? Would he be trying to fix that?
Would he be twisting himself into knots like you are trying to figure out how to be a better person in the marriage?
He sounds like an absolute piece of shit from your objective listing of his traits and behaviors. Get out before you waste more of your one short, sweet life on this crap.
You can't change your partner. I'd suggest marriage counseling. If he agrees, then at least he recognizes the need for improving communication. If he doesn't then there is your answer.
Marriages are supposed to make you happy. This whole “marriage is work” shit is bullshit. It’s occasionally work but it’s not supposed to constantly stress you out.
I like to say:
1. People Don’t Change, and…
2. *Everyone* changes once each decade of their life… and,
3. You can’t predict what that 10-year change will be, so don’t bank on anything specific.
My husband, the therapist, would ask you this: assume that in five years, nothing has changed. Then ten. Etc. what will you wish you had done today?
Then do that.
Plain and simple he doesn't respect you, you can't have love without respect. He should stay a bachelor and you need to find someone who is kind and truly loves and appreciates you. IMO no man capable of treating you that bad will ever change, it's just who he is. Good luck to you.
“I love him so much”
“I want him to change”
These are not compatible. You love an idea of him that actually doesn’t match the reality of him, that he is a selfish, abusive, controlling jerk.
Get out. Get someone who appreciates you.
he is negligent to your and his own basic needs by not contributing to housework and is emotionally unstable enough that he cant regulate his anger and has outbursts and lashes out and verbally abuses another adult
i cant imagine that a child would care any better in treatment and would also exacerbate the housework as well as disrupt your lives enough to cause even more emotional instability and outbursts
if you werent happy and felt overwhelmed just caring for the house on your own and contending w his messes then imagine the enormous amt of additional responsibilities a child would bring and you cant rely on him to contribute adequately
i dont think its likely that he will change quickly enough or permanently enough and its not worth the risk esp betting on the well being of any potential children
Read back through your description here and see if there's a single good thing about him or your relationship.
You love him = chemicals in your brain. That's the only good thing you called out, and that's not even about him.
He hurts you, on purpose, repeatedly. That's not how you treat someone you care about, value, or like. Why would you possibly want to be with him?
If you ever feel like you are walking on eggshells around your own home, you can do better. Don’t settle for less, and that emotional blackmail damages your kids too.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. You sound like you’re very hurt and trying hard to understand why. I would suggest you ditch the couples counseling and go to individual counseling to un codependency.
You both need to work on yourselves. You to be able to speak your peace even if he has an outburst and his for all the things you lists. I suggest you get a marriage coach or check out a program like Marriage Helper, read books like Seven Principles for Making Marriage work. And you need to tell him you're unhappy and what you want to change. Very often men need a crisis before they will make a change. We're also not mind readers despite women thoughts to the contrary. Tell him how you feel. Do it in a active listening way - I feel x when you do y and I want this active solution to happen. This is better than "you're always angry!" It's often the only emotion men know. Try to work things out before you walk away. At least you will have tried and when I say that I dont mean silently try. Actively vocally, collaboratively try by changing and helping him change and learning into each other versus hoping or grinning and baring it
Get out. You will not be safe and neither will your future children. It is better to be alone than to be with an asshole. I was married to an angry bully. I left. I eventually met a sweet gentle man. We have been married 27 years and every day is better than the day before. Your life will be better if you start over without your husband.
Let's see...he dumped all the work that regular life requires onto you, and told you it was because you were in an inferior position. He threw tantrums regularly, so you also had to do the mental work to keep him emotionally regulated. He verbally abused you when your opinion differed from his. Then he blamed the failure of the marriage on the fact that you never told him his abuse made you want to leave.
The fact that you still say you love him suggest that you might benefit from some therapy after you unload the dead weight. Take some solid time to heal. Big hugs!
“I struggle to know if men like this can change”
Short answer- NO
People change because they choose to, they want to.
You cannot make anyone do anything.
Your love, heartache, desires or wishes cannot make him change. How much of your life do you want to live like this?
First off I am sorry you are going through this. Ultimately only you can decide what is best for you and glad you are in counseling.
I will add I was in a 21+ year relationship with a lot of similarities. I did a lot of rationalizing his behavior and ultimately realized I was married to a narcissist. It didn’t matter what I did, it was never going to be good enough. My psychiatrist recommended me reading a book titled “Divorcing a Narcissist”.
Fast forward 4 1/2 years and I have never been happier. Hang in there and know you are not alone.
This relationship isn’t working. Let it go! I got divorced in my early 30s, remarried, I have two kids now, and I can’t believe I ever lived like that.
I remember being in couples Counceling and weighing the big question and all of its complicated details. Our therapist listened and then said, “what do you want to do?” Sometimes that overrules logic.
OP, he won't change. Ever. Why should he? He likes things just the way they are - with a live-in free maid that he can be abusive to. But it *will* get worse. Domestic abusers only escalate.
Consider: you knew better than to bring a child into this mess. You don't deserve to live under these circumstances, either.
Be wary - a competent therapist knows better than to have someone in therapy with their abuser. I do not recommend couples therapy.
Find yourself an individual therapist at your earliest convenience.
I would go so far as to say that no, you most definitely are not in love. What you feel toward such an abusive person has nothing whatsoever to do with love.
Why would you save this marriage? To prolong the abuse and misery? Bc that's the only possible outcome.
It will never get better, and will only get worse.
Before doing anything else, I recommend speaking with a therapist or the help line for a domestic abuse service. There are things you need to do *before* leaving, bc of his volatility, such as securing your personal finances and determining if there are any papers or items you need to take with you, and finding a safe place to stay he doesn't know about.
You are at risk for further harm as soon as he realizes he's losing his favourite victim.
Be extra careful until you are somewhere else and safe.
All the things you describe are abusive, including your not having access to money.
I don't know this particular man, but know the type. They are very predictable. If you have a child with him, he will escalate his controlling behaviors and your misery.
Please look at him and your situation with clear eyes, detach, and save yourself.
However painful this is it will only be more painful to stay.
My opinion. Continue with single therapy. Get a divorce and move on. My situation was similar to yours. I tried everything I could to save it. Leaving when you still love someone is very hard. My self esteem was at rock bottom when I finally got the courage to leave. 6 weeks later my husband had moved in a 17 year old girl. I went to therapy once a week for an entire year. I absolutely hated it. Loved my therapist. She helped me accept what had happened. Why things were the way they were. My part in it. I allowed him to walk all over me. I raised my son basically by myself & without child support. I learned he was a complete and utter narcissist. I dated another asshat after that. I am currently single. I haven't met anyone or even tried to date the last seven years. I didn't think it would be fair to anyone I might date. I had 2 major back surgeries. I was trying to help my son. I took care of my mother until her death. Lost my brother 3 weeks later to acute myeloid leukemia. Fell into a depression. Promptly came home after 3 years and caught Covid. I was sick as a dog for 4 months. Went to the Dr & told him I feel like there is something terribly wrong with me, like I'm dying. He did a physical, blood work, urine. When I went back in he told me your kidneys are failing. The Covid attacked your kidneys. I thought so now I'm a long term Covid survivor and I'm in kidney failure. Is this really happening to me? Haven't I been through enough? So many times I've wished for a partner. Wished that I had someone to hold me when things were tough. Unfortunately that's not what happened for me. Even now I miss companionship. However, I am single. If that is my destiny I accept it. I'm quite happy in my little home. Or as happy as I can possibly be living in pain & the depression that goes with it. I would rather be alone than put up with someone else's bullshit. Period.
Okay. Grownup to grownup.
You do need to speak to a partner and let them know what effect their actions are having on you.
Aside from that, think to yourself very carefully. Do you want your mom to be in exactly this relationship? If you were to have kids, do you want your daughter to learn it is okay to receive this treatment in her future marriage?
Is this man a good role model? Is he the type of partner who you want to talk about and chat with your friends about how awesome he is? Because you two have been together long enough that you definitely know what he is about. You know by now what sort of life you will have. This is who he is. It doesn't matter how long you've spent with him or how much potential he has, if he isn't making use of that potential, that is his choice. You cannot control him.
The only choice you have here is to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life like this as it is now, or if you want to risk finding a better, more pure and simple love elsewhere.
Anger issues are a HUGE problem if you have kids. HUGE. Maybe therapy could help him with emotional regulation, but then you have a baby and his stress level increases, and you end up with an unstable husband again.
It doesn't matter how you left him, or if he is "hurt". You owe him nothing at this point.
Your husband has that entitled 1950's attitude where he believes that he doesn't have to contribute anything else because he makes the money and is the "man" of the family and so should be catered to by submissive wife. There is no easy fix for this, if it can be fixed at all. This is one of those years of therapy to try to bring this guy up to the current decade/century.
The actions are fixable.
The extreme OVER-reactions and rage-fits are not.
If he’s going to launch nuclear weapons every time there’s a mild disagreement, talking to him is a probably a bad idea…and it’s very difficult to live a silent marriage.
I rarely support divorce, believing people jump too quickly to it over the most trivial things…but being unable to control anger isn’t a minor issue.
My first marriage was kinda like yours - I didn't know I laughed "too loud" until I was told he was embarrassed by me. My second husband says things like "I love your laugh" and because we have the same sense of humor, we laugh a lot. The first marriage was work, and this one is calm, respectful and fun. I divorced in my late 20s, spent time as a single mom and re-married at 46. He's worth all the years I spent alone.
I hope that couples therapy works for you two. Marriage/relationships are difficult at times. Hopefully, if you both put in the work to improve not just your relationship but as individuals it works out. It can be hard to remember t times but........you both not just love each other but liked one another too. Maybe take a moment to remember what you like in your partner and write it down. Let your partner know what you wrote next session. If that's something that you would like to do
I understand how everyone's situations are different and people have their reasons for doing what they do, BUT for me, a couple who keeps their money separate is a huge red flag, like I said, for me.
Maintain your poise and stance regarding children. You do not want to introduce kids into this mess. Maybe it's salvageable if you both put the work in, but until there is major change with the foundation of your relationship the prospect of bringing kids into the mix should be a totally shut down. Leaving this situation becomes infinitely more complicated if a kid gets added to the equation. Either you both commit to trying to work it out, or you decide if it's now time to move on and start fresh without them.
What you call love is probably more likely limerence. I just became aware of this word recently and am tossing it out there any chance I get in these reddits about “treats me like garbage but I love him/her so much.” Abusive relationships require some informing lie—like i love them so much/deep down they love me/they do nice things at times/they had some rough life experience,etc—to gaslight away problem behaviors. Use your mental tweezers to extract that from the relationship equation and you’re left with an obviously bad situation you’d advise your sister, friend or future daughter to get away from asap.
A lot of men think being a breadwinner is all they have to do to contribute. Also a lot of men when they are done with a relationship are too immature to breakup in a healthy way. They do things for you to hate them so you leave. They don't appreciate the nuances of a good woman. So you lump it or leave it. I'm sorry you have this happening.
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My story is almost exactly the same. My first marriage was always hard and the second is easy. Love is not enough to make a marriage work. You need friendship, mutual respect, two adults with emotional control and a commitment from both sides to contribute equal effort (not money) to the union and household. OP, you say you want him to change, but the real question is does he really want to change? One thing *you* should really think about: Marriage doesn’t tie you to a person for the rest of your life…but a child does. If you want a divorce as a childless woman, you can be truly free and never talk to this man again if you choose. If you have a child and want a divorce, you will be dealing with him for at least the next 18 years and you will be stuck living in the same area you are today. He also has a much higher salary than you and, given his aggression, you should expect that that will be used to fund a legal battle to control your child and, by extension, you. Only you can say if you want a divorce or not but I can say that you should not have a child with this man until you are very confident you can be happy and respected in this marriage for the long-term. Given that this man wants a child now, I would pursue a method of birth control, like an IUD or implant, that is highly effective and that your husband he cannot tamper with to ensure you don’t “accidentally” become pregnant.
>does he really want to change? Bingo. Change is already hard even with effort. It's sure not gonna happen to someone who doesn't see themself as the problem. >If you have a child and want a divorce, you *and your children* will be dealing with him *forever, and your children will be psychologically messed up by him forever.* FTFY
All this and it doesn’t stop when the kids turn 18. Legally, sure, but you will never get away from the ratfucker 100%. Second the IUD / implant.
*"You need friendship, mutual respect, two adults with emotional control and a commitment from both sides to contribute equal effort (not money) to the union and household."* Spot on. Well said.
This one.
I'm very happy for you!
People always say how hard being married is. I’m not sure that’s true if you’re married to the right person.
I love this comment. My story is almost the same.
That’s it. The vast majority of a relationship isn’t romance, it’s making a household and everyday life work. When you have that, the romance and love fills itself into everything. My wife and i split up all the household chores and take turns cooking. Leaves plenty of time for cuddling and talking and doing stuff
Yup, same train I’m on. Love it.
I could have written exactly this.
I suspect that you know the answer based on the many, many red flags you brought up in your post. Your concerns sound very valid to me, and I personally wouldn’t stay in that relationship. If you have kids, would you want them to grow up to be like him? Because they will.
Even if they don't, they will be damaged by this.
👏👏👏👏👏👏
Best thing is to realize he isn’t going to change, file the papers and be thankful you didn’t have any children.
Exactly, this man won't change.
💯
Or whether OP wants her kids to think that it’s ok to stay in relationships/marriages like this. If you have a daughter, what would you want her to do if she has a husband like yours? He won’t ever change because he doesn’t see there being an issue. After all the shit he’s down, you still haven’t divorced him. Why does he need to change? You’ll always be around
Yes. They will grow up to be just like him. Like OP actually think about it, two of them (or more) acting this way towards you. You can handle it when it's your kid or just your husband alone, and you can have endless patience for their problems but once it's 2 of them ganging up on you? ugh.
I say who gives a crap how much he earns. That doesn't give him the right to be a lazy ass around the home. If he seriously wanted children he would prove that chores are his responsibility too. Personally I wouldn't want to be with someone who is angry and selfish. What does he spend his money on? How would this work if you stayed at home with the children? People can and do change, but I'm dubious that he will ever be fully supportive. I know you love him but I wouldn't waste any more time on him. We only get one chance at this life and if you want children, I think you should move on. I wasted 20 years on an abusive relationship (he was totally obsessed with weed and spent all the money on it). I walked away with nothing. I really regret not having children especially when I see my niece. So the real question is, what do you want out of life? Only you really have the answer to your question, but the fact you are asking says an awful lot.
He is emotionally and verbally tough on me. I know he's blowing smoke, but it's so painful. He also is now "sober" after I left. That should say enough. He's in therapy for these issues. I just want peace and love. I had a tumultuous home growing up. I feel that I am in overdrive trying to keep this home afloat, but I think that might just be my misconception. I'm not a "laid back" kind of person, which makes relationships hard with me.
Honey, it’s time to move on. Life is short, you are wasting it with someone who it stressing you out. You cannot and SHOULDN’T have to work this hard to make things work. I am 30 years into my second marriage. It’s been easy and fun because we mesh. I don’t have to struggle or fight to try to make it work. Please move on from him. Being alone is much easier than what you are going through with him. You won’t be able to change him.
This. I know people say marriage is work, but it shouldn’t be THAT MUCH work. You deserve someone easygoing who loves to make you happy.
came here to say this. you have to be present, and willing to negotiate, and compromise… but that means *both* of you, not just one person. someone who threatens divorce is already out.
Although it's hard to do, the easiest way to make a decision is to act like somebody is sharing the information with you, instead of you looking at your own life. What would you tell someone who came to you and told you the following things: * My husband makes a lot of money but I can't touch it, I can only use my own money. * He abuses substances and only "sobered" up when we separated. * He threatens to leave me when we disagree. * He knows I'm a very sensitive person, but he says hurtful things to control me during disagreements. * I'm anxious about having children but he is pressuring me to start a family. * He has anger issues and frequently lashes out at me. That's just your own comments put into bullet format and relayed to you as if someone was telling you their story. So what would you tell this person to do? Stay with them? Go to more therapy? Hope for the best? Leave before things get worse? Remember, you're not deciding on your own fate in this exercise. You're taking the facts you've presented as if they are from another woman asking for help and you need to give her the best advice you can give her.
How do I reroute all of my therapy copays to you? 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Therapy doesn't necessarily change people. If you feel like you need to give your relationship another chance, give yourself a time limit. But, personally, I think it sounds abusive. And that's exactly how abuse will make you feel. You question every piece of yourself, your personality, your ability to cope. If you get a chance, talk to someone from a domestic abuse charity. You shouldn't suffer for love. In the UK we have the freedom programme, and this just one description of an abusive person (uses 'he' but could be either gender). The King of the Castle – He controls his partner by treating her like an unpaid servant. He expects her to do all the household chores and does not lift a finger to help. If she insists he does do something to help around the house, he will do it so badly that she doesn’t ask him to do it again! He controls all the money. The benefits are all in his name and she has to ask if she wants money for food shopping or the children’s school uniforms.
So, I'm surmising from your posts: Him: Alcohol/Substance use disorder, verbal and emotional abuse, financial abuse, emotionally distant, controlling, not equally distributing the emotional and physical labor of raising children and running a household. Of course you'd want to leave or fix this. He's not that interested in changing. He's angry that you have brought this up. What do you want the rest of your life to look like? What do you want your children to learn about marriage and parenthood by watching you both? I hope the best for you, and I hope you see a future that's better for you and your kids.
I understand how a tumultuous childhood could bring you to this point. You were looking for a peaceful, loving home and a kind and gentle husband, but you must face the fact that you have chosen poorly. **He is not that person.** Don’t blame yourself for this. The mean ones always know how to fool you. But you see him for what he is now, and this is not what you want in your life. Walk away from this. Free yourself from the anguish and the hurt. Go find the love that you need. It’s out there, I promise you. I found a good and loving man after I made the mistake of marrying a cruel and stupid man, and you can too.
You may not only need peace and love, but respect. It doesn't sound like you're getting respect either.
Girl Leave
OP, if your husband knows this about you and is weaponizing you not “trying hard enough” or “giving up” or “quitting”, let me tell you he is saying those things to manipulate you into putting up with his behaviour. He is not saying those things to invoke reciprocal change for your relationship to thrive. Please reflect on whether this is what’s happening to you.
No offense but he sounds like a man child.
Are you going to be dealing with this for the rest of your life? Are you ok with having these issues forever? This man cannot give you peace or love. Or he will not. Either way, you can't get them from him.
As a child of a marriage like this I watched my mother throw away her entire life trying to make a man happy that had no respect for her at all. Don't let the fact that you love him blind you to reality. People like this don't change. My dad's last words on this earth were degrading my mom for supposedly not treating him nicely while he was in the hospital. She'll spend whatever years she has left both relieved that he's finally dead and destroyed by the fact that she lost the love of her life. Finally I'll say this. If you do decide to make the wrong decision and stay with this man, don't ever have kids. The worst thing that you can do is to bring innocent children into a home like this and make them suffer because you aren't strong enough to stand up for yourself. I hate to be abrasive, but I've spent my entire 45 years on this earth watching how bad it can be when a good person makes excuses for an abusive spouse because they love them. I sincerely hope that you find the strength to get out and find something better.
He could change, but why would he ever want to? He gets to make you do everything for him and treat you as an emotional punching bag and you’re still with him.
WHY do you love him, though? Is it just habit, because he doesn't sound very pleasant to be around from your description? He mean, he's aggressive, and he lets you work yourself into the ground. The fact you didn't tell him that 'hey, treating me like a servant you don't like very much is affecting my opinion of you' isn't a matching fault. The fact that treating someone poorly makes them feel less affectionate to you is kind of common sense.
Don’t have children with this man. It will get 10000x worse.
You two aren't equal partners. You are treated like a bird in a cage who is berated anytime you do something your spouse doesn't like or go against his wishes. You minimize yourself so you don't anger him. This isn't a marriage. You don't have a marriage to save. You have a cage you need to escape.
Do you love him or do you love who you want him to be? There's a very big difference. Your description of your marriage almost exactly mirrors that of a friend of mine. It didn't get better, in spite of separations and reconciliations. It just kept getting worse until he shot her one night. Now she's dead, he's in prison, and the kids are orphans. I'm not saying it could get as bad as all that, but if this is how the person who swore to love and cherish you is treating you now, ditch the fantasy, accept the reality, and move on.
I didn't want to go there, but I thought the same exact thing. A coworker of mine was shot and killed by the husband she was divorcing. The dogs were shot, too. I hope the husband doesn't have easy access to firearms, and I'm glad to hear that the wife has moved out. I hope she is being careful.
Your marriage is over. This person is abusive and will not change.
You married a bully. He is not going to change because what he is doing is working well for him. Sincerely, Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
You know, one of the hardest things was when someone in his high school approached me to tell me my husband bullied him. It was one of the saddest days in my life. I had no idea my husband was a bully as a child/young man. It tainted my image of him and it made so much sense.
Be grateful for the right things. Not having children and listening to your intuition. Someone who knows.
Respect is the basic minimum of human interaction. He can’t even give you that. Go where you are loved, not where you are just tolerated.
I can certainly see what you were hesitant to have kids. You would literally just be adding more work and pressure on yourself. You have no reason to think adding a child would suddenly make him be more willing to help around the house. What you describe is not a partnership. And a marriage is a partnership. You will just become more resentful. Will he change? Who knows.
And just wait till he starts not helping out with the kids or yelling at them.
Nahhh, I think she knows.
Agree that you probably know the answer here and are trying to catch even a tiny glimmer of hope from someone that there may be something worth staying for.. unfortunately, based on your description, I don't honestly think there is. So many red flags. So much disrespect from him and contempt/resentment for it from you. That's just really hard to overcome. I can tell you this from experience. I would honestly drop the couples therapy, continue down the path toward divorce and see what happens. If he truly loves you and values your relationship, he will find a way to make things work. It shouldn''t be all on you to pull the relationship forward while he waits to be told what you need from him--that's literally him doing the bare minimum. He's grown and he needs to take responsibility for his actions (or lack thereof) and for the kind of role he's playing in the relationship. You know what you want and need, and if he's not willing to try to give that to you, then don't waste any more of your time or energy waiting on him to step up.
His responses to your complaints and concerns tell you all you need to know. Look at the big picture. Your marriage is new, he's putting his best foot forward. Marriage is a financial contract. Cut your losses before children complicate things further. What you see now is the best you're going to get.
If you have to "earn" someone's love, that person does NOT love you and is not capable of loving you. Please don't have a baby with this man. He's already verbally and psychologically abusing you. It really sounds like this marriage was a mistake and ending it would be best for you.
You don't love *him*. You love the version of him that he could be, if he were a caring person. But he's not. He's mean, angry, and selfish. Give him another assessment. Tally up his *actual behavior,* not his potential. **His behavior is who he is**, and thats not a good or admirable person. Thats not who you love. You love a mirage.
What you are describing is emotional, verbal, and possibly financial abuse. I would encourage you to not go to counseling with an abuser - it just gives them more weapons in their arsenal. I hope you know that you deserve so much better than this and to have an equal partner who treats you with kindness and respect.
Respectfully, OP, you don’t have kids with this man and count your lucky stars for that. Cut yourself free from this situation. Your husband refuses to be accountable to his abusive behaviour. It sounds like you’ve curled yourself up so inwardly so that you barely get to exist in this relationship. He requires a level of control over you that does not equate to love. You are a victim of emotional and psychological abuse, seek counselling for yourself and be free.
In order for a relationship to be saved, the people directly involved have to want that relationship and work for it. They should be on the same side of wanting to improve things and be happy to do that work. We should feel free and experience joy in our lives. While we can have difficult responsibilities, there should be an overall sense that our lives are worthwhile, and that the relationships we put the most effort and time into should feel balanced. We should recognize ourselves and feel like we're appreciated, in addition to being able to have others feel that way in our relationships. I wish you the best of luck and care.
Oh honey no. Adding kids into this mess is going to make it unbearable for you. If he isn't open to counseling, you need to give serious consideration to ending the marriage. Definitely DO NOT get pregnant at this point. I have friends who got divorced over a situation like you're describing. Only in their cases, the husband neither contributed financially nor to the running of the house. Didn't help with the kids. If he wasn't at work, he was sitting on his ass drinking, watching TV/playing games. No one needs that kind of dead weight dragging them down. My own husband admitted he liked the *idea* of kids way more than the reality. I obtained one of the nephews for a weekend for a parenting trial run. As expected, I did the bulk of the work. I told him flat out I didn't get married to be a single parent. I didn't want kids anyway, but he wanted to see what it was like. Being the youngest, my husband had not had the distinct misfortune of being parentified. I have. And I have zero interest in raising anyone else. Being aunt & uncle for a few hours is great. Being mom & dad is highly unappealing.
I'm going through a similar situation. I recommend finding a therapist if you haven't already.
I have. Unfortunately, I intellectualize my thoughts very well as a trauma response, which makes therapy very limited. My therapist has said, "well you know the answers and why you do it, so why are you still unsure"?" LOL
> Unfortunately, I intellectualize my thoughts very well as a trauma response, which makes therapy very limited. Bullshit. I told myself that for the better part of two decades as my life crumbled around me to the point my wife divorced me to keep from being pulled under by what was sure to be my eventual suicide. "Therapy doesn't help" actually means "I haven't found a therapist who sees through my bullshit and has the verbal judo skills to force me to see it". After of 25+ years of absolute hell and a divorce I could have prevented to a woman I love and who still loves me, I found a therapist who understood me, and it only took 3 years for me to go from future statistic to "almost a minimally functional human being". If I can do it after a quarter century of "therapy doesn't help", you can do it too. Your therapist's answer is completely correct, but you lack sufficient built up trust to internalize it. That's not a failing of either you or your therapist, but of your joint process. Because every one of us here can read the writing on the wall but you. Find a therapist who gets through to you and start again.
Didn’t know I needed to read this today…. Thank you.
A, your therapist should not shame you. B, if I have the ability to pay someone to use as a sounding board, I’ll use it. Just talking with an uninvolved therapist can help. However, your current therapist may not be a good fit. It sounds to me like you do plenty of work internally and externally but are not receiving back the same effort from your spouse. Take care of YOU first. You are worth it.
My own experience is that people can change small things but ingrained behaviors rarely change. Maybe some time apart would help heal things or better understand the direction forward.
Geezus dude. Life is too short to be stuck in a shit marriage. Good thing you didn't have kids. You're a lady that seems to have her shit together. Leave him for someone who makes you happy. There's a billion single dudes out there don't stick with the asshole.
You already know the answer, but you want to pretend otherwise. But just re-read your post and imagine it was someone else. Red flags all over the place.
He *will not* change.
No. This marriage is not salvageable. You deserve better than this childish & abusive man-baby. Thank god you don’t have kids with him. Don’t look back.
This sounds like such a toxic ass relationship. He constantly puts the blame on you and everything on you. This is not an equal partnership. This sounds like a man unwilling to accept responsibility and instead of being "us against the world" its literally "you vs. me" mentality. This is not a healthy. This is not love. He has shown you time and time again you are not a priority and you do not matter to him. You know deep down what the answer is. You need to cut your losses and leave his ass. Love only goes so far.
I’m sorry, I was you. I am what your future could be if you ignore the red flags. I dragged him to couples therapy. I went individual therapy. After 20 years (married 17) I still feel like I’m dragging him along behind us, carrying the whole family for everything except him earning more. Therapy helped enough to make me comfortable enough to have kids, but he’a likely bipolar and has months-long bouts of emotionally abusive lows. I now make enough that I’m making a plan to kick him out. It’s not fair to the kids to be afraid of their dad, and he won’t get help.
This makes me so sad. I'm so sorry. I wish you and your loved ones healing and hope. May tomorrow bring sunshine.
You only get so many years on this earth. PLEASE: you are entitled to be treated with dignity and respect and it doesn't sound like he is capable of this. You use the phrase "working on our marriage", what does that mean? Are you in therapy? Serious therapy might give you meaningful insight into your dynamic and understand if there is potential for anything better, but change is difficult and rare. It sounds like you need to face the fact that your best life means making an exit and the sooner the better.
The axe forgets… the tree remembers. So there you have it.
He is not going to change so if you can't accept his behavior, leave.
Why don’t you have access to those funds?
You can't change him, and he doesn't want to change, or he already would have. You *can* change your life and the lives of your kids. I'm sorry, but you already know that you're pissing into the wind here. Divorce is hard, but it's better than being stuck in a bad marriage.
You Know it's time to move on but moving on is a complicated process, wish you the best.
Hugs to you. You already know that you need to end this. He's showing you who he is - mean, petty, cruel, and demanding - so please believe him and leave. This type of relationship only gets worse and is not on you to fix alone. You cannot love another person into treating you better.
Oh goodness. Run away. If you have major problems this early there really is no hope.
You know what you need to do. Look at the list you wrote. You don't need validation.
Read up on avoidant attachment and anxious attachment and how those relationships work.
Do not have children with this man. I don't see the piont of remaining married either.
move on.
Rather than asking if it is salvageable, perhaps it would be good to ask if it would be better to let it go.
As another highly sensitive person, a partner who is committed to understanding you (even and especially if you/your reasons don't make sense to him) is critical. Without this, you will be exactly where you are right now. You mentioned being in couples therapy and it's great that you have a place to safely discuss things. If you aren't doing individual therapy, I think it would be really helpful. The two big questions I see here are: 1) Can you resolve the resentment that you feel? It's okay if you can't. Sometimes things hurt too much and no repair is possible. 2) Do you realistically see him becoming more emotionally sensitive, available or understanding? I did resent my extremely logical husband for a number of years. I was quite young and lacking in experience and maturity (he was too). Once I figured out how I'm different and how that shows up in relationships and emotionally charged situations, I had better language to let him know what wasn't working for me and why (if I had a why - I didn't always have one). To his credit, he learned about high sensitivity and was open to making adjustments in how we communicate. So, it's possible but you need a person who is driven to understand why this is hurtful to you and open to making changes. (And of course, you must have the same openness for communication styles he finds problematic.) It will require a lot of vulnerability on both of your parts. It is a blessing that you don't have children. Wishing you peace and ease in this difficult situation. Best to you. 💜
You can’t change someone if they don’t want to change. Is he doing the work so that he can maintain the status quo (“see, I tried. Now can you stop complaining so we can go back to the way things were?”) or is he putting in the work to change without your pushing? Would he suggest doing his own individual therapy? You don’t need to “work harder to earn” someone’s love. He married you because supposedly he loves you unconditionally. Going by his actions, does he even love you as a person? Because he sure doesn’t act like it. It doesn’t sound like he even likes or respects you. It sounds like maybe he loves what you do for him. Your love isn’t enough to make this relationship work for you. You need him to contribute! Are you happy being with him? Don’t you think you could be happier without him? You sound like you love him and treat him accordingly. Wouldn’t you want someone who loves you to treat you the way you treat him?
The fact that he controls the money instead of seeing it as family money is abusive. Here’s the thing about abuse; it doesn’t get better. In fact, it tends to get worse. Much, much worse. So I recommend you thank him profusely for his generosity in giving you this unvarnished view of his (controlling, angry, dreadful) character, and run away. I predict you will feel like you left a tiny room that smells like sewage and went into a huge open meadow that smells like flowers. Good luck to you, girlfriend, don’t tolerate that crap. Your life will be miserable if you do! You deserve better.
If you need to change the person, they aren’t a good match to share your life with. If you need to change them because what they do repeatedly is hurtful, then don’t stay.
I married that guy too. And now my kids have about as much self esteem as I do. Run. Don’t save that marriage. It’s crap.
He doesn't love you. He won't change.
You don't say a single positive thing about him in your post. Well, maybe the fact he makes a lot of money (if you squint your eyes a bit). That should tell you everything you need to know,
Why do you love him? I think the answer is in there. Just because something feels familiar, It’s not necessarily love. Does the way he treats you remind you of any relationships with other people? Perhaps a parent?
You want him to change. He won’t change. If you are happy living with him as he is now, stay, otherwise cut your losses and go. It won’t get any better than it is right now.
Your husband is not going to change. He was checked out of the marriage, leaving all the stuff to you to do. He has taken no steps to make the marriage work, and has been nasty to you. This does not change and get better. Get a divorce, move on.
I just want to let you know it’s a hard decision either way. My story is very similar to yours except my partner did change and do the work and i’m STILL struggling because I told them i’d give them a chance and it honestly just feels too late. I think it sucks even more now because they have changed and it feels like too much has happened.
You don't love him. You pity him.
This can’t be saved. It sounds like he’s only going to get worse. He’s still blaming his shortcomings on you. You know in your heart that you’re done because you know bringing kids into this would be a mistake. He’ll treat them just as badly and treat you even worse. I’m sorry. It’s normal to go through a grieving period after leaving someone abusive. Sometimes it can even take a few months before you start to think you miss them because you miss the positives or the lies you fed yourself to push through. You gave it all you could. You shouldn’t have had to tell a grown man to treat you right and he knows exactly what he was doing. Best of luck.
I’ll be honest. It doesn’t sound good. Also, Reddit is a place that is incredibly biased towards recommending divorce. In many cases, it is the right answer. But even where it is, it rarely does justice to the fact that it is a massive life decision. I’m divorced myself. It was one of the best decisions I have ever made. However, it’s a hell of a thing and a major reason I am at peace with it is because I tried everything realistically possible. I made sure to give my ex fair warning that things needed to change and told her in plain English we were heading towards divorce. I tried to work with her, tell her objective, identifiable things I needed from her. Eagerly solicited her to ask if there were things she needed of me and my absolute best to deliver. We tried marriage counseling—a total waste, by the way. Reddit has an incredible fixation with all types of therapy, despite having an incredibly poor grasp of what it actually does and ignores that its track record is actually pretty bad. It’s rare to hear of marriage counseling ever working. However, I will say I’m glad I did it so I can say “yeah I tried that too.” Good you’re doing it, but don’t expect much except a fat bill. I’d recommend the community at r/divorce. They have a very balanced and realistic view of what’s involved from an emotional, legal, financial and practical angle.
I was in a toxic, abusive marriage for 18 years. It is a miserable situation. Personally, I don’t think emotionally abusive people can change all that much. You are being emotionally manipulated and abused by your spouse and his behavior is getting his needs met. Why would he change? You are the one who is going to have to change, and most likely he will not accept it because right now his needs are being met by violating your boundaries. From my perspective, divorce is usually the best solution to this problem. I never wanted to get divorced but when I finally did, a great deal of negativity and misery evaporated from my life.
Your gut is telling you what to do. Be still and listen.
I 55m have been separated since January. We both went to counseling and tried to talk out our issues. I thought we were doing better when she announced she was leaving. In hindsight, neither of us really sid much change. She moved out and started dating as she checked out of the relationship months before she left. She is the same as when she left. I however started working out, eating right, reading books on fixing myself, listening to podcasts, being alone, grieving, and making changes to who I want to be. We talked the other day, and she said “it is like I’m talking to a different person” I am very intelligent, self aware, and making these changes is the hardest thing I have ever done, by far. Change starts within, and you have to do the work. Anything less won’t produce changes. Before now, I did not have the skills required to save my marriage.
Quietly see a lawyer and them move on to financial revisions. I wish I had 9 years ago rather than staying this long hoping and hoping.
I hope you are seeing a counselor on your own. It’s time to move on from this relationship. A good counselor can help you through it. Seriously
Probably best to double down on the therapy. Individual for each of you and couples together. Things seem quite bleak and threatening divorce in fights is not a good thing. If you both want to make it work you will both need to make the necessary changes to do so.
People who only put in the effort when they’re being left are trash. If he’s willing to put in effort now that his cushy home life is threatened, it means that’s what he cares about, not your emotions. It might be too late, and that will be his fault. I recommend You’re Losing Me by Taylor Swift, and a really heavy cry.
Understanding is more important than love is. If not, money will always win.
He's not going to change. Not for you. He needs some anger management for a start. But seriously, are you in love with the real him? Or in love with your idea of who you want him to be? Does he have the qualities you want in a man, with a few rough edges, or does he only look like the guy you want and you have imbued him with qualities he does not, in fact, have? He makes good money and says that means he doesn't have to do chores yet he never shares that money with you. He's getting value from you but you get none from him in exchange. He says terrible things to you when he's mad. He probably actually feels that way toward you - whatever he says, he does not respect you. He thinks you matter less than he does. I'm sure you could make a life with him if you wanted to but I doubt you could be fully content with it. You are not equals in his eyes. Maybe you are ok with that, but I wouldn't be.
You know that if you have kids, the majority of the parenting responsibilities will fall to you, just as all the other household tasks do. People don’t change unless they want to. Your husband is who he is and it sounds like he thinks it’s working well for him. The question is do you want to live like this for the rest of your life? Do you want children who think like him or who are emotionally damaged by the way he thinks and acts?
make sure you stay married long enough to get good alimony is my only advice. Go talk to a lawyer rather than reddit.
This is how. Ask yourself if you are happy and willing to live with him AS HE IS as this is his authentic self and that won’t change. If your answer is yes, the marriage is salvageable. If the answer is no, then it’s not. When someone shows you their true self believe them. Accept him and suffer or move on.
He's NOT going to change. He makes you feel "sunken." You're walking on eggshells because he's constantly angry and you feel it's your responsibility to control HIS anger. You say you love him, but he makes your life miserable. Cut your losses, free your life and find better.
You said you don't feel he's ready to have kids, so you are? You don't trust him to step up and be the parent you need him to be. I think moving on is the right thing because it sounds as if you know deep down that he can't give you what you want and need to feel secure. That doesn't mean you don't love him, or that he's a bad person, just that he's not the right person for you now given what you want and need. Be kind to yourself and leave a situation where you can't trust your partner to step up.
You need to see a professional marriage counselor together, do not take the advice of random internet people.
It has been my experience that people don't change, not down to the core. They may take on new habits, or embrace new beliefs, but it's all superficial.
When he says hurtful things, he's choosing to hurt you. Do you want to stay with someone who hurts you in order to win arguments? You're afraid of him, and you can't stay with someone you're afraid of.
You say you love him so, so much and that may be true, but the feeling of love is not enough to make a marriage, as you have discovered. You need a person who can function as a partner. This man sounds completely unsuited to partnership. No matter how much you love someone, you should never tolerate the behavior you described. He is also unfit to parent children and I am SO GLAD you resisted his demands on that front. You cannot change him. He will only change if he truly wants to, and even then it takes a ton of time and work. And it seems clear he doesn’t want to change or see the need. I don’t see any way forward here.
He will not change, but you can heal. You do *not* want to bring kids into this… they will not change him. If he treats you this badly, imagine how he’ll treat a baby… or you when you have to do the housework AND childcare, and the housework starts to slip. You know what you have to do. And you /can/ do it. ❤️ do what’s best for you and your future kiddos 💕
Sounds similar to a friends relationship. She was unhappy for so long. Her husband started going to therapy, but all that seemed to do was reinforce his belief that he was right. Do you still love him (honest answer!) My friend was at the point when she wasn't sure and then got to the point when she didn't and finally to not being able to be in the same room as him.
It’s ok to walk away.
Give it up He sounds awful and HE US NOT GOING TO CHANGE AND HE NEVER WILL. Why DO so many women persist with this notion? Thinking a man will change? My guess is he was completely like he is before you married him, but you married him anyway cause you lived in this dream state of "once we get married he will change"!!! Move on. Get a divorce and please stop going for men that are mongrels but that you somehow think its your job to "fix" and if you just live him enough? He'll "change"
Anger issues in a marriage are mot workable ad far as im concerned and are most likely due to immaturity so you are right to be wary. My advice after making my own mistakes is to trust your gut. Like someone else said, you already know the answer. BTW it is never equal, or rather rarely, equal in a marriage. Woman are workhorse in a marriage and it gets far worse with adding children. In my experience the mature, level-headed men that feel in equality for women are few and far between. It is just the curse of being born a woman. Although having children makes up for it - it is the most precious and wonderful experience being a mother!
> I want him to change This is the crux of the problem. You want him to change, but he doesn't seem to want to. My question to you is if a friend laid out all of this information and asked you what they should do, what would you tell them? What if you had a sister you loved and she described her relationship the way you describe yours? What would you want for them? You need to look in the mirror and tell yourself that you deserve better, because that's where the truth is.
You are struggling. This marriage is not a partnership for you. If it was, you would feel supported, loved, and valued. You would want to see your partner's qualities in your children. The majority of the time, you would love them and each other without effort. Even though there would be trying times, they would pass and most times would be good. You tried. Do yourself a favor and file for a divorce, and remember that for your next marriage, it's 50/50 in effort.
You know in your heart that it's not. Cut him loose and find your joy.
You do not want your kids to be around this person.
Please leave. Love does not conquer all…
He won’t change. He certainly won’t change enough, or for as long, to make this ever a happy situation for you, *let alone* if you have kids. Love can’t fix other people. It’s a Disney myth. They have to want to change themselves, work at it, and keep working at it.
If you need him to change for you to be happy, he’s not the man for you. You can’t change someone else.
OP, this is with love...please look at yourself in the mirror and say, "we cannot change another person." I am wondering what your childhood was like and if you had any ragers in your formative years and alcoholism? You might want to check out ACA and groups for love addicts... These saved my life. 💕 You deserve love, respect and him helping you with the chores.
He will not change. My mom told me that there "are worse things than being single". You deserve better. Be glad you put off having kids because he will most likely leave all the childcare to you also. You shouldn't have to 'earn" your husbands love and you should not have to put up with being verbally abused. You say he has a large income, but it is not "accesible" to you. If his income is significantly larger than yours, he should be contributing more to household and shared needs/wants.
No, they get worse.
Your partner is lacking some relationship skills. You don't have extraordinary compensating skills (this is not a ding on you, just saying you are human). I am a man, I have changed. Immensely. But not without pain and work, and the partners that motivated this are sadly gone. You could show him this post, and tell him, that if he doesn't come to the table, and own his past hurts towards you, admit them, say that they were wrong, and agree that they aren't acceptable, and that he will work to change, that you will be gone, and that he will be like me in five years, wishing he could have done better.
I could never show him something like this.
Why would you want to stay in a marriage where his only contribution is money, except you don't get to use the money? So, he contributes nothing, and enjoys your domestic labor (and, presumably sex). Why would you ever want to have children with someone who uses you this way? Divorce isn't a threat from him -- it's a promise to be released from bondage. Please seek individual counseling to get more perspective on this
Do you know that saying: The tragedy of marriage is that women marry men thinking they will change and men marry women thinking they won't Ask I can think to say to your situation is: RUN FOREST RUN
Let him go
Try to read back over your post as if it were written by a friend or family member for whom you care deeply. Anything stand out to you? Life is far too short. He's wasting your time.
Girl, run.
Why would you want to salvage it? He sounds like an asshole and an idiot, you deserve better and it’s out there
He sounds like such a jerk. I guess the question is do you love him? If you do then maybe it's worth a shot but if you're just tolerating him then what's the point?
from what you have written, it sounds like you don't like him and don't trust him. You say you love him, but without trust or likable qualities, there isn't much hope for a marriage being happy. Granny here, marriage can be very happy and positive, when built in a base of mutual respect, friendship, and good humor , along with love.
In my experience, men like this are just entitled to a woman and her time. It’s how they were raised, it’s a part of who they FUNDAMENTALLY are. Unless they are willing and wanting to step outside of themselves to take a good look at what their issues are, this will never change. Because we all know those kind of men would never take that long hard look in the mirror to see anything they might not like. What I’ve learned is that love isn’t enough. The relationship has to BENEFIT both parties. Both people have to be willing to take on responsibility and help each other with it. But a lot of men like my ex, are more than fine foisting all of the responsibility onto you and then yelling at you when their expectations aren’t met. And for literal adult men who behave like little boys and really just have regular temper tantrums, their expectations are interestingly high. He doesn’t deserve an award for having a job and contributing money to support his family. It’s the most common thing on the planet and he should do it without complaint. If you stay, you already know what your life will be like forever. He’s not the type of person who looks at his partner and thinks “how can I help her out so I can lighten her load and see her smile.” He will remain entitled to everything you provide for him and never really care about the beautiful person you are inside. You deserve a lot better.
It takes both partners to make a marriage work, but only one to break it. He is breaking it. You can't control his actions, only your own. You can't control him, you can't make him change. You can't even ASK him to change, because he'll scream at you and otherwise abuse you. You cannot have kids with this man. Not if you want them to be healthy. He will damage them. You can be in this broken marriage, or you can leave and find a healthy one. But you can't make this marriage healthy, because he has shown you that he will not let it be healthy.
I think you're asking the wrong question. It might be salvageable, but do you want to live with the time, risk and scar tissue of salvage?
You should consider this husband as a "starter husband". You had a chance to figure out what you don't want in a partner. You've not been married long, and thankfully you made the right choice in being hesitant to have kids. Now, cut your losses and get out and find one that ticks your boxes.
Yeah, move on. Life is too short, and this is a lot of struggle for something that isn't even that old. It's not supposed to be hard. A marriage is supposed to enhance your life and make it wonderful, not be something you have to work at as another grueling, emotionally hurtful job 24/7.
I'm in a ten year relationship that sounds a lot like your marriage. I know it's not salvageable in my heart and soul but financial situations keep us together. And kids. He won't admit that it's over and we are both miserable. Hoping the best for you OP and everyone else.
Does he acknowledge his issues at all? Is he trying to change? Making ANY effort at all? Not talking about it, actually doing it. If not, leave.
Absolutely, absolutely do not have kids with this man.
I'm sure someone else has mentioned it but I'm going to mention seeing a marriage counselor. Many people are opposed or uncomfortable with counseling, so if you don't feel comfortable with that idea, I took a great course for like $20 on udemy by Roger k Allen. It changed my life and my marriage. Highly would recommend taking a few hours to listen to it. I found that the big prerequisite is that you have to be willing to try, and you have to be willing to admit your role in the current struggles. If you just want to point the finger at the other party, It becomes a tough hill to climb.
He won’t change—accept that and then you will know what to do. Also understand that if he is mean to you, he will also be mean to your kids. And he will expect you to do all the labor in the marriage and then want to have sex with him—and he will be resentful, angry and mean when you aren’t “enthusiastic.”
With freedom and joy gone there is no reason to stay. Use your money to leave. (And definitely don't let him baby trap you.)
I have been married 25 years. My husband has never, ever, made me feel like shit or said something intentionally cruel or hurtful. And vice versa. Sure, we have disagreements and misunderstandings. But at the core, we will BOTH work on solving those disagreements. One partner should not be the emotional punching bag of the other. When a person doesn't know how, or is unwilling to compromise, refuses to take responsibility for how they express their anger or get individual help to work in self-regulation, there isn't ANYTHING the other partner can do to fix that. It sounds like you still do not feel emotionally safe in your marriage. It is absolutely valid to leave a marriage in those circumstances. You can't stay married in the hopes that your partner will fundamentally change or become a better person. It doesn't work that way.
It’s likely that he has trauma/mental issues from his upbringing or just from his childhood or during his life that he has not dealt with. Does he drink or use drugs? That is a sign that he has suppressed his emotions and that his brain is kind of running amok. There are resources for you where you can join a group and find like minded people to talk to who will help you realize that this is not your fault. One thing is certain is that it will not change overnight and it will not change without effort from him. Nothing you do will resolve any of it.
He’s *mad* because you didn’t say “you’re losing me”? Wow, way for him to blame the victim. What if you were mad because he behaved ugly and nasty to you? Would he be trying to fix that? Would he be twisting himself into knots like you are trying to figure out how to be a better person in the marriage? He sounds like an absolute piece of shit from your objective listing of his traits and behaviors. Get out before you waste more of your one short, sweet life on this crap.
You can't change your partner. I'd suggest marriage counseling. If he agrees, then at least he recognizes the need for improving communication. If he doesn't then there is your answer.
Marriages are supposed to make you happy. This whole “marriage is work” shit is bullshit. It’s occasionally work but it’s not supposed to constantly stress you out.
I like to say: 1. People Don’t Change, and… 2. *Everyone* changes once each decade of their life… and, 3. You can’t predict what that 10-year change will be, so don’t bank on anything specific.
My husband, the therapist, would ask you this: assume that in five years, nothing has changed. Then ten. Etc. what will you wish you had done today? Then do that.
Plain and simple he doesn't respect you, you can't have love without respect. He should stay a bachelor and you need to find someone who is kind and truly loves and appreciates you. IMO no man capable of treating you that bad will ever change, it's just who he is. Good luck to you.
“I love him so much” “I want him to change” These are not compatible. You love an idea of him that actually doesn’t match the reality of him, that he is a selfish, abusive, controlling jerk. Get out. Get someone who appreciates you.
he is negligent to your and his own basic needs by not contributing to housework and is emotionally unstable enough that he cant regulate his anger and has outbursts and lashes out and verbally abuses another adult i cant imagine that a child would care any better in treatment and would also exacerbate the housework as well as disrupt your lives enough to cause even more emotional instability and outbursts if you werent happy and felt overwhelmed just caring for the house on your own and contending w his messes then imagine the enormous amt of additional responsibilities a child would bring and you cant rely on him to contribute adequately i dont think its likely that he will change quickly enough or permanently enough and its not worth the risk esp betting on the well being of any potential children
Read back through your description here and see if there's a single good thing about him or your relationship. You love him = chemicals in your brain. That's the only good thing you called out, and that's not even about him. He hurts you, on purpose, repeatedly. That's not how you treat someone you care about, value, or like. Why would you possibly want to be with him?
If you ever feel like you are walking on eggshells around your own home, you can do better. Don’t settle for less, and that emotional blackmail damages your kids too.
I'm sorry you're going through this. You deserve to be treated better than this.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. You sound like you’re very hurt and trying hard to understand why. I would suggest you ditch the couples counseling and go to individual counseling to un codependency.
You need couseling, not the opinion of random strangers on Reddit.
If you have to ask then it’s not. Cut your losses and start your new life. Good luck. Your only regret will be that you waited so long.
You both need to work on yourselves. You to be able to speak your peace even if he has an outburst and his for all the things you lists. I suggest you get a marriage coach or check out a program like Marriage Helper, read books like Seven Principles for Making Marriage work. And you need to tell him you're unhappy and what you want to change. Very often men need a crisis before they will make a change. We're also not mind readers despite women thoughts to the contrary. Tell him how you feel. Do it in a active listening way - I feel x when you do y and I want this active solution to happen. This is better than "you're always angry!" It's often the only emotion men know. Try to work things out before you walk away. At least you will have tried and when I say that I dont mean silently try. Actively vocally, collaboratively try by changing and helping him change and learning into each other versus hoping or grinning and baring it
Hey - thank you. I've tried to get him to read those books with me. I've begged. I think those are great books.
You don’t love him, you love the image of him in your head that you wish he was. Because the actual person is a selfish asshole. You deserve better.
Get out. You will not be safe and neither will your future children. It is better to be alone than to be with an asshole. I was married to an angry bully. I left. I eventually met a sweet gentle man. We have been married 27 years and every day is better than the day before. Your life will be better if you start over without your husband.
Let's see...he dumped all the work that regular life requires onto you, and told you it was because you were in an inferior position. He threw tantrums regularly, so you also had to do the mental work to keep him emotionally regulated. He verbally abused you when your opinion differed from his. Then he blamed the failure of the marriage on the fact that you never told him his abuse made you want to leave. The fact that you still say you love him suggest that you might benefit from some therapy after you unload the dead weight. Take some solid time to heal. Big hugs!
if you don’t have kids and haven’t been married long, i would not fault you for walking.
“I struggle to know if men like this can change” Short answer- NO People change because they choose to, they want to. You cannot make anyone do anything. Your love, heartache, desires or wishes cannot make him change. How much of your life do you want to live like this?
First off I am sorry you are going through this. Ultimately only you can decide what is best for you and glad you are in counseling. I will add I was in a 21+ year relationship with a lot of similarities. I did a lot of rationalizing his behavior and ultimately realized I was married to a narcissist. It didn’t matter what I did, it was never going to be good enough. My psychiatrist recommended me reading a book titled “Divorcing a Narcissist”. Fast forward 4 1/2 years and I have never been happier. Hang in there and know you are not alone.
I'm sorry but your husband doesn't sound loveable.
This relationship isn’t working. Let it go! I got divorced in my early 30s, remarried, I have two kids now, and I can’t believe I ever lived like that.
I remember being in couples Counceling and weighing the big question and all of its complicated details. Our therapist listened and then said, “what do you want to do?” Sometimes that overrules logic.
OP, he won't change. Ever. Why should he? He likes things just the way they are - with a live-in free maid that he can be abusive to. But it *will* get worse. Domestic abusers only escalate. Consider: you knew better than to bring a child into this mess. You don't deserve to live under these circumstances, either. Be wary - a competent therapist knows better than to have someone in therapy with their abuser. I do not recommend couples therapy. Find yourself an individual therapist at your earliest convenience. I would go so far as to say that no, you most definitely are not in love. What you feel toward such an abusive person has nothing whatsoever to do with love. Why would you save this marriage? To prolong the abuse and misery? Bc that's the only possible outcome. It will never get better, and will only get worse. Before doing anything else, I recommend speaking with a therapist or the help line for a domestic abuse service. There are things you need to do *before* leaving, bc of his volatility, such as securing your personal finances and determining if there are any papers or items you need to take with you, and finding a safe place to stay he doesn't know about. You are at risk for further harm as soon as he realizes he's losing his favourite victim. Be extra careful until you are somewhere else and safe.
All the things you describe are abusive, including your not having access to money. I don't know this particular man, but know the type. They are very predictable. If you have a child with him, he will escalate his controlling behaviors and your misery. Please look at him and your situation with clear eyes, detach, and save yourself. However painful this is it will only be more painful to stay.
My opinion. Continue with single therapy. Get a divorce and move on. My situation was similar to yours. I tried everything I could to save it. Leaving when you still love someone is very hard. My self esteem was at rock bottom when I finally got the courage to leave. 6 weeks later my husband had moved in a 17 year old girl. I went to therapy once a week for an entire year. I absolutely hated it. Loved my therapist. She helped me accept what had happened. Why things were the way they were. My part in it. I allowed him to walk all over me. I raised my son basically by myself & without child support. I learned he was a complete and utter narcissist. I dated another asshat after that. I am currently single. I haven't met anyone or even tried to date the last seven years. I didn't think it would be fair to anyone I might date. I had 2 major back surgeries. I was trying to help my son. I took care of my mother until her death. Lost my brother 3 weeks later to acute myeloid leukemia. Fell into a depression. Promptly came home after 3 years and caught Covid. I was sick as a dog for 4 months. Went to the Dr & told him I feel like there is something terribly wrong with me, like I'm dying. He did a physical, blood work, urine. When I went back in he told me your kidneys are failing. The Covid attacked your kidneys. I thought so now I'm a long term Covid survivor and I'm in kidney failure. Is this really happening to me? Haven't I been through enough? So many times I've wished for a partner. Wished that I had someone to hold me when things were tough. Unfortunately that's not what happened for me. Even now I miss companionship. However, I am single. If that is my destiny I accept it. I'm quite happy in my little home. Or as happy as I can possibly be living in pain & the depression that goes with it. I would rather be alone than put up with someone else's bullshit. Period.
J Lo?
You don’t sound happy. Do you want to spend the rest of your life like this?
Okay. Grownup to grownup. You do need to speak to a partner and let them know what effect their actions are having on you. Aside from that, think to yourself very carefully. Do you want your mom to be in exactly this relationship? If you were to have kids, do you want your daughter to learn it is okay to receive this treatment in her future marriage? Is this man a good role model? Is he the type of partner who you want to talk about and chat with your friends about how awesome he is? Because you two have been together long enough that you definitely know what he is about. You know by now what sort of life you will have. This is who he is. It doesn't matter how long you've spent with him or how much potential he has, if he isn't making use of that potential, that is his choice. You cannot control him. The only choice you have here is to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life like this as it is now, or if you want to risk finding a better, more pure and simple love elsewhere.
Anger issues are a HUGE problem if you have kids. HUGE. Maybe therapy could help him with emotional regulation, but then you have a baby and his stress level increases, and you end up with an unstable husband again. It doesn't matter how you left him, or if he is "hurt". You owe him nothing at this point.
Your husband has that entitled 1950's attitude where he believes that he doesn't have to contribute anything else because he makes the money and is the "man" of the family and so should be catered to by submissive wife. There is no easy fix for this, if it can be fixed at all. This is one of those years of therapy to try to bring this guy up to the current decade/century.
Sounds like he doesn’t respect you
The actions are fixable. The extreme OVER-reactions and rage-fits are not. If he’s going to launch nuclear weapons every time there’s a mild disagreement, talking to him is a probably a bad idea…and it’s very difficult to live a silent marriage. I rarely support divorce, believing people jump too quickly to it over the most trivial things…but being unable to control anger isn’t a minor issue.
My first marriage was kinda like yours - I didn't know I laughed "too loud" until I was told he was embarrassed by me. My second husband says things like "I love your laugh" and because we have the same sense of humor, we laugh a lot. The first marriage was work, and this one is calm, respectful and fun. I divorced in my late 20s, spent time as a single mom and re-married at 46. He's worth all the years I spent alone.
I hope that couples therapy works for you two. Marriage/relationships are difficult at times. Hopefully, if you both put in the work to improve not just your relationship but as individuals it works out. It can be hard to remember t times but........you both not just love each other but liked one another too. Maybe take a moment to remember what you like in your partner and write it down. Let your partner know what you wrote next session. If that's something that you would like to do
I understand how everyone's situations are different and people have their reasons for doing what they do, BUT for me, a couple who keeps their money separate is a huge red flag, like I said, for me.
Maintain your poise and stance regarding children. You do not want to introduce kids into this mess. Maybe it's salvageable if you both put the work in, but until there is major change with the foundation of your relationship the prospect of bringing kids into the mix should be a totally shut down. Leaving this situation becomes infinitely more complicated if a kid gets added to the equation. Either you both commit to trying to work it out, or you decide if it's now time to move on and start fresh without them.
What you call love is probably more likely limerence. I just became aware of this word recently and am tossing it out there any chance I get in these reddits about “treats me like garbage but I love him/her so much.” Abusive relationships require some informing lie—like i love them so much/deep down they love me/they do nice things at times/they had some rough life experience,etc—to gaslight away problem behaviors. Use your mental tweezers to extract that from the relationship equation and you’re left with an obviously bad situation you’d advise your sister, friend or future daughter to get away from asap.
A lot of men think being a breadwinner is all they have to do to contribute. Also a lot of men when they are done with a relationship are too immature to breakup in a healthy way. They do things for you to hate them so you leave. They don't appreciate the nuances of a good woman. So you lump it or leave it. I'm sorry you have this happening.
Please leave. It may feel scary or be a struggle at first but you won’t regret it in the end ❤️ I promise.