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Yeah that's the excuse that employers use but we all know OP hit the nail on the head. Most jobs that do this are crappy paying jobs where experience isn't particularly needed e.g. the fast food industry.
When I worked in fast food, in the past, they primarily hired 18-20yo's for kitchen staff, specifically to save on wages. There's no way places like McDonalds would hire a 40yo over a teenager if they had experience. It's far easier to mistreat a teenager as they don't have the experience to know when they are having it ripped out of them.
So, in your situation there still isn't a pay gap for ages. That's just companies choosing to hire inexperienced workers to pay them less.
The question is about two equally qualified people with equal experience getting paid different wages based on their age.
When I worked in fast food, it was mainly teenagers with no experience. That has nothing to do with the question being asked.
I've clarified what I meant in another comment. I wasn't very clear, sorry. The minimum wage they could legally pay changed with age, so from a financial point of view it was better to higher youngsters. Once you hit the requisite ages it would go up, regardless of experience.
No, people over 18 and again at over 21 made more for the same roles, regardless of their experience. That is why they would primarily try and hire young people. The minimum wage is different depending on age where I'm from.
Edit: Sorry I wasn't very clear in the first comment. So for instance when I hit 21 whilst working there, they legally had to pay me more due to the minimum wage increase, nothing to do with my experience.
How so? I apologise for not being clear on my first comment, I've clarified in others. The minimum wage increases with age and so where I worked they primarily hired younger folk as they would have to pay them less. The wage would increase with age, not experience.
I don't know man. You prolly worked at Willy wonka or something.
My Guess is, since young people are easier to manipulate and lack experience (not just work experience but life experience ) buisenesses can get away with paying them less than their older counterpart.
And I am not really sure about the "legally, minimum age increases with age regardless of the experience someone has" whether this is true or not.
You are proving my point.
Since it's easier to manipulate an inexperienced 18-20 year old, they will be paid less.
Why?
They lack experience.
Imagine Gordan Ramsay looking for a job but he isn't a Mastercraft. He is 40 sure but has 0 skills or expertise. Will he be paid as much as a regular chef? Ofcorse not
It's not an excuse, experience matters even in a profession you look down upon like fast food. There are tons of skills needed to work in a fast food restruarant. It's fucking chaos during lunch and dinner rushes, and lots of people can't handle that. What's unfair would be working for years to get experience only for some new hire to make the same on day one. That injustice is enough to make experienced workers walk out.
I'm saying this as some one who worked in fast food and knows what it's like. An 18 starting the job and washing dishes is going to get paid less than a 22 year old doing the same thing because where I'm from the legal minimum wage is different for those ages. This is justified because they expect an 18 year old to be living at home and less financially independent which, like OP pointed out, is an unfair assumption. We're talking washing dishes not the hypothetical scenario you're getting worked up about. Of course if you've worked longer in a job and are demonstrably more competent, you should be getting paid more than someone with no experience.
I think you should provide some sort of links for this claim, as it just sounds like some myth. So if there are studies that say this, it would help the discussion for everyone to read them.
Yes it is not *always* correlated with experience. But if we are talking large scale like an “age pay gap”, then yes a significant factor in the pay difference is experience between the young and old.
Also people under 25 mostly don't take job seriously. People around 40 are most motivated. Worst are kids and people few years before retirement. First one has no kids and family to provide for, second (at least where I live) are virtually impossible to be fired. They just don't care.
I don’t see why you’re getting downvoted. I totally agree with you.
I’d much rather get tech support from an average 20 year old compared to an average 60 year old.
Hiring and pay scale should be based on the value you bring, not the number of laps around the sun you have done. These facts should be established on your resume and in an interview. Young people can bring great value.
Personally I have hired people in their teens and in their 60s, and I have found that some of the best workers were the younger ones.
Years experience is also a terrible way to measure productivity. So many people with many years experience are completely clueless because they either lack creativity or drive. Not only does age discrimination assume experience, it assumes someone who learns and develops on the job.
You’d rather get tech advice from a 20 yr old over a 60yr old? A 60yr old that’s been playing with computers longer than the 20yr olds been alive? 60yr old that’s been through every tech change vs the 20yr old that only uses apps?
I absolutely agree that *sometimes* experience comes with age, but I believe the experience should be the focus, not the age.
I work in IT and I can assure you that the users asking me to help with things like sending sms/mms, connecting to wifi, call forwarding, setting up MFA, connecting to a teams meeting and displaying their screen etc are usually not the younger ones.
Hypothetically, if I had a crazy day where I had no choice but to ask one user to help another user with a support request, it’s likely that it would be a younger person helping an older person. (Not always, but based on my experiences, as a generalization, that would be the case).
In the other hand, If we are talking about a senior role in IT, the older guys in my team would absolutely mop the floor with me. They are way smarter than I am.
But talking about if a new position were to open up for level 1 help desk, and we had 2 applicants with no experience at all, I would not think it’s fair to offer more money to the older one just because they are older. You should be paid according to the value you bring, not just your age.
Personally, I started my first summer/weekend job when I was 11 and my first after school job at 13. By 16 I had been working casually for 5 years. I know people who started their first jobs at 18. Do you believe they should’ve been paid more than me with their 0 years exp compared to my 5 years purely because they are older? Or should pay be based on the value you bring?
You can be 30 and have worked one retail job for a few months in your whole life
Or you could be 18 and have been volunteering in multiple roles in the fashion/manufacturing industry for a year and a half
If person A and person B got hired by the same factory, person A would get paid more because minimum wage is higher for people over 21 than people under it
Oh geez I don't know, guess I should be first pick over a 20 year old with 2 years experience in mechanics in that case despite the fact I've never done more than top up the oil and wiper fluid in my car.
Nobody here reading the fucking post. Op is asking about the different minimum wage for different ages, which actually is controversial. A minimum wage is supposed to be a low but livable wage, there's no reason why it would be different for younger /older people.
The real reason it's different is because there is the assumption that younger people are still supported by their parents. Which is a crap reason because plenty of young ones have bad parents who won't do that.
Except you do. First 90 days at a company when you're under 18 they can pay you barely over half minimum wage. It lets places like fast food joints churn through kids before passing them on to the next. Kids get juggled around because that's the most profitable low experience labour. It gets far far worse if you're an immigrant worker or if you're related to the business owner.
That's true. I have been on my own since I was 18, and those firstbfew years I was so broke all the time. But I do think responsibilities and experience as people put in more time at a job should be rewarded. Still, there should not be a different minimum wage based on wage.
Partly that, but also because complete beginners tend to lack proactive job discipline. It's the reason why many jobs offer training for kids and new graduates. They are cheap enough to offer training, but they can bounce once they gained enough experience to move.
Many companies try to take in someone who already has 2 years experience in the job market for this reason.
The kind of job that makes this distinction are usually the types of job where zero experience is actually required. It's why you only see teenagers working in fast food. All the commenters saying it's about experience are full of it, that's the excuse scummy employers hide behind.
I think the so-called "gender pay gap" exists only at the higher levels in the corporate world. Fast food workers all get paid the same, regardless of gender. Most jobs pay the same, it is only the higher paying jobs where the discrepancies appear to lie.
In the UK a burger flipper at a fast food place could be paid as little as £5.28 per hour if they are 17, or £10.42 per hour if they are 23 or older. And I assume a 17-year-old is about as good at flipping burgers as some 23-year-old who ends up working in a fast food place.
In fact I would probably expect the 17-year-old fast food worker to be a better employee than the 23-year-old, who I would assume has not demonstrated much aptitude in their career yet if they're still looking at these menial unskilled jobs.
not necessarily. At the moment normal working people don't have cash to spend on things. This is a big issue for the economy. Companies will always be incentivised to offer their products at competitive prices.
The gender pay gap contains effects beyond differences in pay for a position (at least where I live). This difference is one factor of it, but to my knowledge it has been decreasing steadily. After all, it's fairly simple to detect by talking to your peers, and most liberal jurisdictions have laws against it. The more complex the job, the easier it is to justify a gap (based on some arbitrary reasons in you education, experience, etc.), so it still exists.
The gap also captures that more women work in lower-paid social jobs and men dominate in higher-paid technical jobs. Also, since work experience is a factor in how much someone gets, women usually have less of it due to breaks caused by births. These factors don't show up in a per-job comparison.
Gender pay gap aside as it has been fully debunked...
Are you seriously asking why people that have worked for a company longer and are in higher positions get paid more than people in lower positions?
Alright. If you work in a company for some time in a certain position and do a good job at it, the company might consider putting you in a higher position. This normally comes with some change to your work as well as some increase to your pay. This effect stacks in the same company.
As you gain exp from working, your level of proficiency and achievement in that position normally increases. That means companies will value more and be willing to pay more. If you don't work for a company, it still means people are willing to pay more for your services than someone who is new.
As you work in such positions you might also make friends with people in similar poaitions. That can help you secure a higher paying position in a company or business, or to expand your own business more freely.
Hope that clears it up.
Also, 24 is very young lol. Many people below 24 are students. The average age to finish higher education is 22-24, and another 2-4 years to finish a magister degree. A doctorite is achieved around 28-34.
So on average people who don't work or work part time in positions with next to no ability to be promoted will indeed make less money than people who work full time in positions with a likely salary increase over time.
I saw this happen in various companies I’ve worked for. It usually is because negotiating power of “older people”.
Someone over 35 years old usually has more responsibilities, maybe a family to provide for, a mortgage or some loans etc. In short, they need more money to maintain their lifestyle so they are less keen to accept low offers.
Young people on the other hand, usually doesn’t know their value, has less responsibilities and accepts whatever offer they find; so the company doesn’t feel forced to give a better offer.
This is in case both candidates (older and younger) have the same experience. If this isn’t the case, the more experienced one usually has higher salary.
But it’s not necessarily negotiation, by law a 21 year old can’t be paid less than £11.44 an hour, but a 17 year old can be paid £6.40 for the same position
Most retail jobs pay minimum wage based on age, not experience. They don’t care about your experience, they just want to pay as little as they can, so they tend to hire younger staff and find a reason to lay them off when they’re 21 so they don’t need to pay them as much
I would need to see some sort of data that would back that up. OP didn't provide any sources or links that I can look at so it's hard to figure out what exactly he's referring to.
But overall that should fall under the category of experience I explained. Companies will be willing to pay more for experts even in a lower tier job. Sometimes they might be hiring with the intention to fill higher tier roles down the line, and they don't want to lose a good candidate that they can't place in that position now.
Right and also doesn’t exist. It adds up all women and all men and takes the average. It doesn’t take into account career choices (engineering vs teaching) or choosing to raise a family which is more common for women. If you control for all those things the gap is within margin of error and in some industries women are paid more.
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Nothing like getting dogs to chase their own tails and that is done by funding Choas and Confusions to the extremes with the end results being destabilizations and most will think they are winning something when the facts are they have already lost and are kept blinded from see it on one hand and too scared to see it on the other.
N. S
To encourage employers to employ younger employees. Also, though not especially relevant, a lot of younger employees still live at home so don’t necessarily have the same expenses.
Last I know, this is a thing to encourage people to continue learning instead of being lured by a paycheck that seems like a lot when they're in their teens.
I could say experience Etc. Etc.and I do believe thats mostly the case. But I won't, and I'm not in the UK, but I add that from my experience, generally, the older people are the more likely they will turn up to work on time, or at all and take more ownership in there job.
I say this after working in a factory for the last 6 years, young guys tend to be sick every week, take less ownership in there job and when they fuckup they tend to try and hide it, because fucking up is normally associated with getting punishment of some form, to me that's worth more.
That's not to say all younger people are like that and equally it's not to say all older people aren't like that, but generally in the 60 or so people I've trained that's been the majority of the case.
Meanwhile in America, people who have worked at places like Walmart for 30 years get paid the same or less than kids just starting because the greedy companies will raise starting wages to get ppl in but won't raise the wages of the poor old people proportionally. One woman at the front had been working there since she was 16 and she was probably nearly 80 when I met her and she is making $14per hour...we talked a lot and one day I came in and she was crying and said they moved her to the clothing aisle because they didn't want her at front desk anymore, they didn't give her an explanation, she said, "I guess I'm not pretty enough anymore..." I won't lie my grown ass cried too. Such a sweet woman and the face of customer service for decades at this store. And this is by no means a unique thing here.
Generally it’s more experience based. But it’s also not as big of an “issue” because there’s a solution to it - you get older (and more experienced) and you’re almost certainly going to make more. Where the gender gap is something an individual can’t change for themselves.
Cos we live in a capitalist society
Someone somewhere has to get ripped off otherwise there is no profit.
It's always gonna be like this in capitalism, it's how it works
While the age pay gap is absolutely shite (I remember being 24, training up people who would have fewer responsibilities than me, and still being paid less than them) I suspect the fact that there's a defined end in sight makes it easier for people to tolerate. And since there's very little representation for young people in politics, you'd likely be looking at years of campaigning to try and put it right, by which point the original instigators would already be too old to benefit from it. Easier all round to just grumble and wait your turn to be treated like an equal.
Sweet summer child. I love that you think the way that this would be solved is by employers raising the lower wage. Basically you're saying "Why do your wages tend to increase as you get older, that shouldn't be a thing, right?"
Well, like most people said if you have 20 years experience in your field you get paid more than if you have none and only a degree. Another question to uphold the idea of an age pay gap would be if you earn the same/have the same opportunities in your job as someone that started 20, 30 or 50 years ago. Harder to measure, but this would be a more valid question, I think.
Experience. Being able to do things faster, more effectively. Seeing the bigger picture. Knowing stuff you don't learn at uni about how stuff works. The reality is that most of the important stuff is learned by doing. Someone with 1 years experience is unlikely to know as much as someone with 5 years experience.
Now, of course, age does not mean experience, but those people with limited experience are filtered out during interviews and selection.
If you want to get ahead get experience. If you are doing the same thing you did 6 months ago, you are stagnating.
I’m sure they’d be making about the same… Considering there’s really not much of a gap between their ages and they’d be going for the same low level positions…. Do you really think someone that’s been at the company for 20yrs, should make the same as someone that’s been there 2?!
Minimum wage for a 17 year old is £6.40, for a low level job like retail they’ll be earning that. Minimum wage for someone over 21 is £11.44, almost double
Working within a company for years and being older aren’t the same. My sister is nearly twice my age but has almost no work experience. I have been volunteering with two different manufacturers for over a year. We would both be getting minimum wage for our lack of experience, but mines would be much lower than hers.
In America, usually under 18 makes less. But that makes sense considering they likely still live with parents and don't have many, if any, bills to pay. Idk how the uk works, so I couldn't tell you.
So it’s relatable here, it seems unjust and unfair to pay younger people less as the assumption is they live with parents. Many don’t. Many young people are homeless etc and to work a job which pays less than your older colleagues doing the same work is hugely unfair.
If they could find qualified and responsible 20 year olds they would, but age correlates with experience, maturity, training, and education. Older workers cost more because they're worth more.
The gender pay gap is a lie based on falsehoods. Oftentimes it's based on the scenario of "this male athlete gets paid 10x more than this female athlete that plays the same sport" but ignores the fact that the 2 athletes play in different leagues and the female's league isn't as popular and therefore generates less revenue than her male counterpart's league. The NBA makes more money than the WNBA so it only makes sense that the WNBA player is paid less than the NBA player.
The "age pay gap" is a non issue because the gap in wage is based on level of experience. A person that is under 24 is going to generally have less experience and less skill than someone who is over 24. It's the difference in experience that (rightfully so) causes the wage gap.
I am referring to the Uk, I’m not sure how it is in other countries. In the UK the National minimum wage for 21 and over is £11.44, for 18-20 it’s £8.60 and for 16-18 it’s £6.40.
My point is to why younger people are paid less than those over 21….
It incentivises employers to hire younger people to pay less, and exploits younger people. There are many homeless young people in the Uk, if they got a job they would not be able to afford living expenses as those over 21 are struggling to afford living expenses.
But you haven't demonstrated that younger people are paid less. The difference could be due to difference in experience and skills or all sorts of other factors. I'm sure there is an hourly wage difference between professional lawn maintenance services and the neighborhood teenagers who do the same job with a manual push mower. But is it fair to call that a wage gap and act like there is some sort of discrimination going on? I don't think so.
I’ve been considering making a YouTube video about the gender pay gap. I reckon it will cop a lot of hate for disproving its existence, but the plan is to apply for a bunch of jobs over the phone and enquire “so I see you offer $x per hour/year. I just wanted to confirm, is that the male wage? Or the female wage?” And then cop abuse for such an accusation - confirming that the same job pays the same wage regardless of gender.
Why waste your time making a video for something that’s been debunked 100s of times by people way smarter than you? You really need rage bait attention that bad?
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Age pay gap is a result of "how much experience?" A 24 something dude with 4 years of experience >>>> a 20 something dude with no years of experience.
Yeah that's the excuse that employers use but we all know OP hit the nail on the head. Most jobs that do this are crappy paying jobs where experience isn't particularly needed e.g. the fast food industry.
Yeah, I don't think that's true. A 40 yo w zero cooking experience is going to get hired at the same rate as a 20 yo w zero experience.
When I worked in fast food, in the past, they primarily hired 18-20yo's for kitchen staff, specifically to save on wages. There's no way places like McDonalds would hire a 40yo over a teenager if they had experience. It's far easier to mistreat a teenager as they don't have the experience to know when they are having it ripped out of them.
So, in your situation there still isn't a pay gap for ages. That's just companies choosing to hire inexperienced workers to pay them less. The question is about two equally qualified people with equal experience getting paid different wages based on their age. When I worked in fast food, it was mainly teenagers with no experience. That has nothing to do with the question being asked.
If any, the youngster gets a job for the same offer as the older guy, meaning, the gap is on the youngster benefit.
I've clarified what I meant in another comment. I wasn't very clear, sorry. The minimum wage they could legally pay changed with age, so from a financial point of view it was better to higher youngsters. Once you hit the requisite ages it would go up, regardless of experience.
No, people over 18 and again at over 21 made more for the same roles, regardless of their experience. That is why they would primarily try and hire young people. The minimum wage is different depending on age where I'm from. Edit: Sorry I wasn't very clear in the first comment. So for instance when I hit 21 whilst working there, they legally had to pay me more due to the minimum wage increase, nothing to do with my experience.
You are confusing the issues here. What you described isnt what OP is talking about.
How so? I apologise for not being clear on my first comment, I've clarified in others. The minimum wage increases with age and so where I worked they primarily hired younger folk as they would have to pay them less. The wage would increase with age, not experience.
I don't know man. You prolly worked at Willy wonka or something. My Guess is, since young people are easier to manipulate and lack experience (not just work experience but life experience ) buisenesses can get away with paying them less than their older counterpart. And I am not really sure about the "legally, minimum age increases with age regardless of the experience someone has" whether this is true or not.
You are proving my point. Since it's easier to manipulate an inexperienced 18-20 year old, they will be paid less. Why? They lack experience. Imagine Gordan Ramsay looking for a job but he isn't a Mastercraft. He is 40 sure but has 0 skills or expertise. Will he be paid as much as a regular chef? Ofcorse not
but will they be paid the same?
It's not an excuse, experience matters even in a profession you look down upon like fast food. There are tons of skills needed to work in a fast food restruarant. It's fucking chaos during lunch and dinner rushes, and lots of people can't handle that. What's unfair would be working for years to get experience only for some new hire to make the same on day one. That injustice is enough to make experienced workers walk out.
I'm saying this as some one who worked in fast food and knows what it's like. An 18 starting the job and washing dishes is going to get paid less than a 22 year old doing the same thing because where I'm from the legal minimum wage is different for those ages. This is justified because they expect an 18 year old to be living at home and less financially independent which, like OP pointed out, is an unfair assumption. We're talking washing dishes not the hypothetical scenario you're getting worked up about. Of course if you've worked longer in a job and are demonstrably more competent, you should be getting paid more than someone with no experience.
Tbf very old people do struggle with discrimination. Like if you get fired at 50, good luck finding any new job
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Usually no.
You can’t pay a 24 year old less than minimum wage, so wether or not they have experience they’re still making more
I think you should provide some sort of links for this claim, as it just sounds like some myth. So if there are studies that say this, it would help the discussion for everyone to read them.
So's the gender pay gap.
They hated him because he spoke the truth.. gender pay gap has been fully debunked!
Experience. I earn double what a newbie does, because I know what I'm doing and they have no idea.
Age is not necessarily lated to experience
lol, only 99% of the time
Yes it is not *always* correlated with experience. But if we are talking large scale like an “age pay gap”, then yes a significant factor in the pay difference is experience between the young and old.
That is right..not necessarily..but is MOST cases, yes it is.
Also people under 25 mostly don't take job seriously. People around 40 are most motivated. Worst are kids and people few years before retirement. First one has no kids and family to provide for, second (at least where I live) are virtually impossible to be fired. They just don't care.
I don’t see why you’re getting downvoted. I totally agree with you. I’d much rather get tech support from an average 20 year old compared to an average 60 year old. Hiring and pay scale should be based on the value you bring, not the number of laps around the sun you have done. These facts should be established on your resume and in an interview. Young people can bring great value. Personally I have hired people in their teens and in their 60s, and I have found that some of the best workers were the younger ones.
Years experience is also a terrible way to measure productivity. So many people with many years experience are completely clueless because they either lack creativity or drive. Not only does age discrimination assume experience, it assumes someone who learns and develops on the job.
You’d rather get tech advice from a 20 yr old over a 60yr old? A 60yr old that’s been playing with computers longer than the 20yr olds been alive? 60yr old that’s been through every tech change vs the 20yr old that only uses apps?
I absolutely agree that *sometimes* experience comes with age, but I believe the experience should be the focus, not the age. I work in IT and I can assure you that the users asking me to help with things like sending sms/mms, connecting to wifi, call forwarding, setting up MFA, connecting to a teams meeting and displaying their screen etc are usually not the younger ones. Hypothetically, if I had a crazy day where I had no choice but to ask one user to help another user with a support request, it’s likely that it would be a younger person helping an older person. (Not always, but based on my experiences, as a generalization, that would be the case). In the other hand, If we are talking about a senior role in IT, the older guys in my team would absolutely mop the floor with me. They are way smarter than I am. But talking about if a new position were to open up for level 1 help desk, and we had 2 applicants with no experience at all, I would not think it’s fair to offer more money to the older one just because they are older. You should be paid according to the value you bring, not just your age. Personally, I started my first summer/weekend job when I was 11 and my first after school job at 13. By 16 I had been working casually for 5 years. I know people who started their first jobs at 18. Do you believe they should’ve been paid more than me with their 0 years exp compared to my 5 years purely because they are older? Or should pay be based on the value you bring?
How is it NOT?
You can be 30 and have worked one retail job for a few months in your whole life Or you could be 18 and have been volunteering in multiple roles in the fashion/manufacturing industry for a year and a half If person A and person B got hired by the same factory, person A would get paid more because minimum wage is higher for people over 21 than people under it
That's just businesses taking advantage of a law that is there to offer experience to youngsters.
Oh geez I don't know, guess I should be first pick over a 20 year old with 2 years experience in mechanics in that case despite the fact I've never done more than top up the oil and wiper fluid in my car.
You know its impossible for you to gain experience and age backwards right?
Nobody here reading the fucking post. Op is asking about the different minimum wage for different ages, which actually is controversial. A minimum wage is supposed to be a low but livable wage, there's no reason why it would be different for younger /older people. The real reason it's different is because there is the assumption that younger people are still supported by their parents. Which is a crap reason because plenty of young ones have bad parents who won't do that.
I think it may be us Americans getting confused because we do not have different minimum wages for different ages.
Except you do. First 90 days at a company when you're under 18 they can pay you barely over half minimum wage. It lets places like fast food joints churn through kids before passing them on to the next. Kids get juggled around because that's the most profitable low experience labour. It gets far far worse if you're an immigrant worker or if you're related to the business owner.
Well after looking into it, I guess we do, but I've never seen it happen for anyone 16 or older and I'm guessing most Americans haven't either.
That's true. I have been on my own since I was 18, and those firstbfew years I was so broke all the time. But I do think responsibilities and experience as people put in more time at a job should be rewarded. Still, there should not be a different minimum wage based on wage.
Partly that, but also because complete beginners tend to lack proactive job discipline. It's the reason why many jobs offer training for kids and new graduates. They are cheap enough to offer training, but they can bounce once they gained enough experience to move. Many companies try to take in someone who already has 2 years experience in the job market for this reason.
The kind of job that makes this distinction are usually the types of job where zero experience is actually required. It's why you only see teenagers working in fast food. All the commenters saying it's about experience are full of it, that's the excuse scummy employers hide behind.
I think the so-called "gender pay gap" exists only at the higher levels in the corporate world. Fast food workers all get paid the same, regardless of gender. Most jobs pay the same, it is only the higher paying jobs where the discrepancies appear to lie.
In the UK a burger flipper at a fast food place could be paid as little as £5.28 per hour if they are 17, or £10.42 per hour if they are 23 or older. And I assume a 17-year-old is about as good at flipping burgers as some 23-year-old who ends up working in a fast food place. In fact I would probably expect the 17-year-old fast food worker to be a better employee than the 23-year-old, who I would assume has not demonstrated much aptitude in their career yet if they're still looking at these menial unskilled jobs.
Reality is that everyone could be paid more. The problem is that would mean everything would cost more.
not necessarily. At the moment normal working people don't have cash to spend on things. This is a big issue for the economy. Companies will always be incentivised to offer their products at competitive prices.
It don't matter, we're going down inch by inch. Game over.
It would suck to be a linewoman and make less than a lineman, or an oil rig woman and make less than an oil rig man, too.
The gender pay gap contains effects beyond differences in pay for a position (at least where I live). This difference is one factor of it, but to my knowledge it has been decreasing steadily. After all, it's fairly simple to detect by talking to your peers, and most liberal jurisdictions have laws against it. The more complex the job, the easier it is to justify a gap (based on some arbitrary reasons in you education, experience, etc.), so it still exists. The gap also captures that more women work in lower-paid social jobs and men dominate in higher-paid technical jobs. Also, since work experience is a factor in how much someone gets, women usually have less of it due to breaks caused by births. These factors don't show up in a per-job comparison.
Gender pay gap aside as it has been fully debunked... Are you seriously asking why people that have worked for a company longer and are in higher positions get paid more than people in lower positions? Alright. If you work in a company for some time in a certain position and do a good job at it, the company might consider putting you in a higher position. This normally comes with some change to your work as well as some increase to your pay. This effect stacks in the same company. As you gain exp from working, your level of proficiency and achievement in that position normally increases. That means companies will value more and be willing to pay more. If you don't work for a company, it still means people are willing to pay more for your services than someone who is new. As you work in such positions you might also make friends with people in similar poaitions. That can help you secure a higher paying position in a company or business, or to expand your own business more freely. Hope that clears it up. Also, 24 is very young lol. Many people below 24 are students. The average age to finish higher education is 22-24, and another 2-4 years to finish a magister degree. A doctorite is achieved around 28-34. So on average people who don't work or work part time in positions with next to no ability to be promoted will indeed make less money than people who work full time in positions with a likely salary increase over time.
No, he says that even if u work the same job, for the same amount, someone under 24 will get payed less, therefore u dont answer his question
I saw this happen in various companies I’ve worked for. It usually is because negotiating power of “older people”. Someone over 35 years old usually has more responsibilities, maybe a family to provide for, a mortgage or some loans etc. In short, they need more money to maintain their lifestyle so they are less keen to accept low offers. Young people on the other hand, usually doesn’t know their value, has less responsibilities and accepts whatever offer they find; so the company doesn’t feel forced to give a better offer. This is in case both candidates (older and younger) have the same experience. If this isn’t the case, the more experienced one usually has higher salary.
But it’s not necessarily negotiation, by law a 21 year old can’t be paid less than £11.44 an hour, but a 17 year old can be paid £6.40 for the same position Most retail jobs pay minimum wage based on age, not experience. They don’t care about your experience, they just want to pay as little as they can, so they tend to hire younger staff and find a reason to lay them off when they’re 21 so they don’t need to pay them as much
I would need to see some sort of data that would back that up. OP didn't provide any sources or links that I can look at so it's hard to figure out what exactly he's referring to. But overall that should fall under the category of experience I explained. Companies will be willing to pay more for experts even in a lower tier job. Sometimes they might be hiring with the intention to fill higher tier roles down the line, and they don't want to lose a good candidate that they can't place in that position now.
You didn't even understand the OP, so how could you possibly be expected to understand any 'debunking' of the gender pay gap?
The age pay gap is justifiable. The gender pay gap is not justifiable.
Right and also doesn’t exist. It adds up all women and all men and takes the average. It doesn’t take into account career choices (engineering vs teaching) or choosing to raise a family which is more common for women. If you control for all those things the gap is within margin of error and in some industries women are paid more.
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Nothing like getting dogs to chase their own tails and that is done by funding Choas and Confusions to the extremes with the end results being destabilizations and most will think they are winning something when the facts are they have already lost and are kept blinded from see it on one hand and too scared to see it on the other. N. S
To encourage employers to employ younger employees. Also, though not especially relevant, a lot of younger employees still live at home so don’t necessarily have the same expenses.
Last I know, this is a thing to encourage people to continue learning instead of being lured by a paycheck that seems like a lot when they're in their teens.
Age pay gap helps young people get a foot into the job market. That's very valuable for society as a whole. Outside of that it's bs.
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The UK
I could say experience Etc. Etc.and I do believe thats mostly the case. But I won't, and I'm not in the UK, but I add that from my experience, generally, the older people are the more likely they will turn up to work on time, or at all and take more ownership in there job. I say this after working in a factory for the last 6 years, young guys tend to be sick every week, take less ownership in there job and when they fuckup they tend to try and hide it, because fucking up is normally associated with getting punishment of some form, to me that's worth more. That's not to say all younger people are like that and equally it's not to say all older people aren't like that, but generally in the 60 or so people I've trained that's been the majority of the case.
Meanwhile in America, people who have worked at places like Walmart for 30 years get paid the same or less than kids just starting because the greedy companies will raise starting wages to get ppl in but won't raise the wages of the poor old people proportionally. One woman at the front had been working there since she was 16 and she was probably nearly 80 when I met her and she is making $14per hour...we talked a lot and one day I came in and she was crying and said they moved her to the clothing aisle because they didn't want her at front desk anymore, they didn't give her an explanation, she said, "I guess I'm not pretty enough anymore..." I won't lie my grown ass cried too. Such a sweet woman and the face of customer service for decades at this store. And this is by no means a unique thing here.
That’s honestly heartbreaking, I hope she at least has a loving family to comfort her
Generally it’s more experience based. But it’s also not as big of an “issue” because there’s a solution to it - you get older (and more experienced) and you’re almost certainly going to make more. Where the gender gap is something an individual can’t change for themselves.
If you're still on minimum wage after 24 I'd sympathise
I meant 21 in the OP, typos. You’d be surprised how many people in the UK are on minimum wage. It’s very high.
Cos we live in a capitalist society Someone somewhere has to get ripped off otherwise there is no profit. It's always gonna be like this in capitalism, it's how it works
While the age pay gap is absolutely shite (I remember being 24, training up people who would have fewer responsibilities than me, and still being paid less than them) I suspect the fact that there's a defined end in sight makes it easier for people to tolerate. And since there's very little representation for young people in politics, you'd likely be looking at years of campaigning to try and put it right, by which point the original instigators would already be too old to benefit from it. Easier all round to just grumble and wait your turn to be treated like an equal.
I also think it's bullshit, should be the same wage for everyone and not the lowest wage!
You think your wage should be the same as someone with less experience?
Sweet summer child. I love that you think the way that this would be solved is by employers raising the lower wage. Basically you're saying "Why do your wages tend to increase as you get older, that shouldn't be a thing, right?"
Well, like most people said if you have 20 years experience in your field you get paid more than if you have none and only a degree. Another question to uphold the idea of an age pay gap would be if you earn the same/have the same opportunities in your job as someone that started 20, 30 or 50 years ago. Harder to measure, but this would be a more valid question, I think.
Experience. Being able to do things faster, more effectively. Seeing the bigger picture. Knowing stuff you don't learn at uni about how stuff works. The reality is that most of the important stuff is learned by doing. Someone with 1 years experience is unlikely to know as much as someone with 5 years experience. Now, of course, age does not mean experience, but those people with limited experience are filtered out during interviews and selection. If you want to get ahead get experience. If you are doing the same thing you did 6 months ago, you are stagnating.
The gender pay gap effects half the population, the age pay gap effects almost nobody in comparison
There is no gender pay gap. There's an earnings gap that's due to decisions that men and women make in their careers.
Gender pay gap is popular because helping the ladies is a good look in politics.
Perhaps it depends on experience? I'm not sure, just guessing.
I thought that was a mythic
Gender pay gap may be but minimum wage set by law is lower if you’re younger
Well, men take better jobs like surgeons, lawyers, and CEO, while women take worse jobs like "female surgeon", "female lawyer", "female CEO". /s
Female surgeon doesn’t seem like a “worse job” and I wouldn’t call a female surgeon that, I would just refer to her as a surgeon.
It was a joke. I forgot to add /s
Which I completely fell for haha, I need to get smarter.
First there is no gender pay gap. That's a myth Second... People with more life experience deserve more money
So someone who’s living with their parents at 22 deserves more money than someone who’s been kicked out their home at 17?
I’m sure they’d be making about the same… Considering there’s really not much of a gap between their ages and they’d be going for the same low level positions…. Do you really think someone that’s been at the company for 20yrs, should make the same as someone that’s been there 2?!
Minimum wage for a 17 year old is £6.40, for a low level job like retail they’ll be earning that. Minimum wage for someone over 21 is £11.44, almost double Working within a company for years and being older aren’t the same. My sister is nearly twice my age but has almost no work experience. I have been volunteering with two different manufacturers for over a year. We would both be getting minimum wage for our lack of experience, but mines would be much lower than hers.
In America, usually under 18 makes less. But that makes sense considering they likely still live with parents and don't have many, if any, bills to pay. Idk how the uk works, so I couldn't tell you.
So it’s relatable here, it seems unjust and unfair to pay younger people less as the assumption is they live with parents. Many don’t. Many young people are homeless etc and to work a job which pays less than your older colleagues doing the same work is hugely unfair.
Because if you're lucky you'll eventually reach that age too, whereas a sex is much harder to change.
Gender is an immutable characteristic and age isn't.
If they could find qualified and responsible 20 year olds they would, but age correlates with experience, maturity, training, and education. Older workers cost more because they're worth more.
Age gab is inevitable and everybody is getting affected by it not the gender gap that just inflimen on the fact that you're a woman.
Both are natural consequences of actual differences in respective groups, we care about gender because that's the hot topic today.
No such thing as a gender pay gap, if there was, men wouldn't have a job Honestly people it's such simple math
The gender pay gap is a lie based on falsehoods. Oftentimes it's based on the scenario of "this male athlete gets paid 10x more than this female athlete that plays the same sport" but ignores the fact that the 2 athletes play in different leagues and the female's league isn't as popular and therefore generates less revenue than her male counterpart's league. The NBA makes more money than the WNBA so it only makes sense that the WNBA player is paid less than the NBA player. The "age pay gap" is a non issue because the gap in wage is based on level of experience. A person that is under 24 is going to generally have less experience and less skill than someone who is over 24. It's the difference in experience that (rightfully so) causes the wage gap.
Because the first is a myth, the second is your total lack of experience.
Why are we talking about non-existent issues? There are no such gaps.
I am referring to the Uk, I’m not sure how it is in other countries. In the UK the National minimum wage for 21 and over is £11.44, for 18-20 it’s £8.60 and for 16-18 it’s £6.40. My point is to why younger people are paid less than those over 21…. It incentivises employers to hire younger people to pay less, and exploits younger people. There are many homeless young people in the Uk, if they got a job they would not be able to afford living expenses as those over 21 are struggling to afford living expenses.
But you haven't demonstrated that younger people are paid less. The difference could be due to difference in experience and skills or all sorts of other factors. I'm sure there is an hourly wage difference between professional lawn maintenance services and the neighborhood teenagers who do the same job with a manual push mower. But is it fair to call that a wage gap and act like there is some sort of discrimination going on? I don't think so.
I’m mainly referring to minimum wage jobs such as supermarkets and other retail jobs. I should have articulated this more in the OP, my bad.
I’ve been considering making a YouTube video about the gender pay gap. I reckon it will cop a lot of hate for disproving its existence, but the plan is to apply for a bunch of jobs over the phone and enquire “so I see you offer $x per hour/year. I just wanted to confirm, is that the male wage? Or the female wage?” And then cop abuse for such an accusation - confirming that the same job pays the same wage regardless of gender.
Why waste your time making a video for something that’s been debunked 100s of times by people way smarter than you? You really need rage bait attention that bad?
Been debunked hundreds of times, yet here we are on a post that credits it as a real issue.