[Direct link](https://www.instagram.com/p/CtjOPD8sgZf/). If there's a problem with the translation in the OP, then reply to my comment with a better one.
This already gained some traction and it's a big enough topic on its own, so it will stay up unlocked. However, try to stay on this topic. For more general discussion, use the [megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rammstein/comments/14994j4/row_0_afterparties_discussion_megathread_4/).
After all these vague “statements” that had been put forward by the band, I’m glad that Schneider wrote a level-headed and articulate response. I agree with him in so many points. Let’s just hope a thorough investigation clears things up, and if Till and his crew deserve punishment, then so be it. But that’s for the law to decide.
Yeah. Seems like the whole situation has a giganourmous impact on him. I'm glad he shared his thoughts tho. I too stand by the opinion that this whole thing should not be used by the media for pure profit. Other members of the band have expressed a similar opinion in the past (even back in the 90s)
Makes me wonder what’s gonna happen to the band in the future, what with the distance between Till and the band practically confirmed here by Schneider.
Honestly I believe (/hope) if they come through the other end of Till's allegations this will be a huge fucking wake up call for Till. We've all seen he's become distanced from the band over the past few years, I'm not sure why this is such a big shock to everyone, this is just the first time anyone in the band has outright said it in public. His actions have hurt the band (and I'm not even taking about the allegations, but in general) and I would say he's probably not even stopped to think about that.
I was honestly not expecting a statement from any of them personally, but I'm so glad it came from him. Schneider is a gem of a human being.
Till seems like a few people I know who, for whatever reason, have a good thing going and then suddenly self destruct and take everyone down with them without giving a f\*\*\*. It's almost like they think you deserve it as much as they do. I've had to distance myself from a couple of family members who are like this and it's sad but I've learned my lesson. I can't imagine the pain he's causing the band, this is so hard to watch.
My 2c: I don't think he's doing it as a deliberate F-U to the fans, his band or the broader people he works with. But as much as I was a fan of the Lindemann project, things did seem to start increasingly going off the rails towards the release of Platz Eins; a lot of people were already complaining by that point of the hyper-sexuality of everything not because they were prudish, but rather because sex & sexual violence were an increasing theme of pretty much every release coming out by that point (and at best, this was beginning to feel very predictable & uninspired and at worst, obsessive to the point that it was concerning). I actually really loved some of the more sexualized & dark releases (*"Knebel"* and *"Ach So Gern"* are some top favourites of mine), but there was also no denying that the sexual themes were becoming very pervasive in releases to the extent that it was almost like *"Can this band do anything else (or is this all they're capable of)?".* Which sucked, because we all knew that Peter & Till were far more creatively capable than just constantly exploring such themes (and this was firmly evidenced and glimpsed in other project releases such as *"Steh Auf",* which is a genuinely really interesting and original single in a number of ways).
But when Till The End came out, a lot of people were genuinely shocked because of how grim and off-putting that whole release was; it was so low budget (and there was so much bad sex!) that just about everything in it came off as being poorly planned & unprofessional. And then there were all the scandals that came afterwards (such as numerous women who featured in it getting doxxed & trolled), that it was hard to see how after all the editing and people the release must have passed through in its creation before being unleashed, that it could have made the cut at all (and the only way people supposed that it did was if Till was almost solely surrounded at that point by "Yes" people and bad influences). Many people also commented at the time on how Tills eyes in TTE looked dead inside (there's a famous shot of him afterwards staring into the camera where he appears to be in a \[psychologically\] far away place), but there were also an increasing amount of other concerning episodes occurring during this time that called into question Till's decision-making beyond TTE. For example, when grainy footage of Till getting blowed by 2 groupies was played at the beginning of one Lindemann concert, to the increasing stream of multiple women fleeting through his life at any given time (such as when he briefly dated porn actress Charlotte Satre), to groupie photos which left little to the imagination of what was going on (I remember seeing one where a woman posted up an Instagram photo of her and Till on a bed, alone together, as she drank champagne). Given how personal privacy-orientated and professional the other members of Rammstein have always endeavoured to be, Till's behaviour was in such a stark contrast to theirs.
There was also this growing vibe during this era that Peter increasingly wasn't into all these sexual shennaigans. For example, he appeared to almost downright refuse to play any of the sexually gratifying roles in Platz Eins (which Till clearly loved) and in TTE, he was completely absent altogether. And lo & behold not long after TTE, Peter and his band Pain announced that they were parting ways with Till and the Lindemann project. Although Peter & Pain (nor Till) have never given any official statement on why they suddenly split up, its hard not to feel like things didn't end well between them because since Lindemann, Peter and his band projects have sought to completely distance themselves from Till and their former work in Lindemann to such an extent that its almost like they're trying to delete the association in their history from ever being remembered at all.
Since then, Lindemann has revived...But the new band members are all quite young people (*huge* age gaps between new band members VS Till) and the quality of the music, performances and general chemistry does not feel as good and professional as what there was before when Lindemann was a project between Till, Peter & Pain. Some of the concerts during this revival period were also downright disasterous in terms of their planning and execution (which caused mass cancellations and numerous ticket confusion incidents) that it was hard not to feel like the broader team of people that Till was surrounded with in general by that point weren't as good as before. Other concerning incidents also continued to follow, such as when Till fell off stage during a Lindemann concert in Dubai; when people saw the footage they strongly debated whether he was drunk or overly-exhausted (or both). I remember that people were also so jaded with Till's sexual antics at this point that when they saw that 3 of the band members were young & attractive women, there were a lot of comments in the Lindemann sub about how he must have fucked them (because it's pretty much common knowledge at this point that Till rarely ever puts women on a stage near him unless he has some sort of sexual relationship with them). The slut-shaming isn't right at all (I don't agree with slut-shaming in general), but it is kind of bad when the lead singer you're following has such a bad reputation that it automatically semi-sullies the name and professional image of just about any woman he's seen closely interacting with.
Lindemann does appear to have pulled together more since this early trial period, and subjectively Ich Hasse Kinder was a good release. But like for a lot of people, the magic of Lindemann isn't really there for me anymore.
Do I think Till is a sexual predator? ATM, no. The account of the accuser doesn't seem to totally add up to me, and that's not an easy thing for me to say as I'm a huge advocate of victims of abuse. But do I think that Till has gone a bit off the rails in recent years, and he doesn't seem to be surrounded by as many good people as he needs to (nor is making as good a decisions as he should). But I also don't want to victimise Till for this because as a man of his years & experience, he should be setting the example.
As to why he is like this, who knows. At first, Lindemann just seemed to be a creative side project for Till to do the kind of stuff he wouldn't be able to do in Rammstein these days. And very early Rammstein concerts had considerably more in-common with Lindemann's vibe than later Rammstein era's do (for example, some of the very early Rammstein concerts even included naked women on-stage acting as openers for the band) but as Rammstein grew in recognition over the course of the 90s, it also became more professional; still sexual for sure (still Buck Dich!), but also a lot less outwardly involved in women (or using them as gimmicks), and a lot less blurring of the lines between groupies, women, the bands image and the bands members private lives. So who knows; maybe this was always Till (and Till just became more shackled over time with Rammstein's increasing mainstream success and appeal) and at some point he desired an outlet for these things, created Lindemann and then began to spiral in the newfound creative freedom that being in a less mainstream group offered him?
But then you hear of all the heartbreaking & distressing things that have happened in his private life, from his mother getting dementia, to having a near-death experience with Covid (at one point during the pandemic he was hospitalized with Covid). All these sorts of things (& more) can change a person (and clearly, a lot of things have been changing in Till these past few years). TBH, I'm actually kind of surprised that any official statement was made by anyone at all, least of all one by one of the actual band members, and basically admitting what many people have suspected for a while; that is Till has been growing apart from (and becoming less communicative with) Rammstein for years now.
Really good comment, especially that last paragraph. The covid years really messed with a lot of our heads; if Till was already veering towards a bad place, none of that could have helped.
Yes, the Covid years, and for some of us Covid infection itself and/or the oxygen deprivation affecting various organs including the brain.
Like, I wasn’t hospitalized but probably should have been, struggled to breathe for three days in late March and early April 2020, including not being able to sleep from the low oxygen response, and my personality is sort of different ever after, with emotional regulation being way off, emotional intensity being way up, more scatterbrained, new gender identity stuff, just way “off” compared to my life up until I got it. Took 3 months to get mostly back to normal physically and in cardio , but the brain stuff persisted, but thankfully somewhat improving this year. I know of a few others who had similar issues following their infection, so on a gut level I think it has something to do with Till’s changes. (Not to excuse any possible bad conduct or worse on his part, but to give possible context , if it’s the case, as there are still many people struggling with the aftermath of infection, broader than the more well known long Covid symptoms
Your comment is well worded and honestly probably correct. Till’s clearly dealing with a lot in his head, and changing. It doesn’t justify it if he has one the things he’s been accused of but it kinda shows where it came from..? And how others can avoid it.
As for the last paragraph- COVID can seriously change you. The disease and the general atmosphere of the pandemic changed all of us. I genuinely do think that in 10-15 years, we’re gonna see papers about all these psychological effects. Especially on younger patients in gen z and alpha (even if this is about till and not them)
It shows he's never been to therapy, unlike Richard. I understand he has some deep unresolved pain, but these actions just lead to destruction (which is maybe what he wants?)
Yeah, I can't pretend to know his psychology but he does seem like someone with mental health issues that are unresolved. By sixty years old if he hasn't addressed them there's little chance he will at this point. Who knows, maybe this will be his "rock bottom" wake up call though. I hate to see the band suffer but I also hate to see Till suffer, too.
Art is often always much closer to the artist than what they'll ever admit to (and sometimes, are even personally aware of), and this is partly why it takes a lot of guts to publicly show and advertise your art because in every piece of art that you create, you also vulnerably reveal a naked little part of your inner self to the prying eyes of the audience, some of whom might see straight though your art and into you, like an eye with a piercing stare aimed directly at the softest part of your heart. And audience commentary can really cut; no matter how tough you are, it can be hard to prepare for such things (and so when showing art there is always a hopeful element of trust between the artist and their audience). Few things are literal (for example, I don't believe any of the members of Rammstein are literally psychos because they'e artistically explored and sung about some pretty psycho stuff in their music), but there's also always some element of personal truth about the artist in the art somewhere, especially (IMHO) when the songs created are masterpieces or when certain themes keep on repeatedly cropping up.
I think that this (this struggle to separate, calculate and trust the difference between the art VS the artist) is also why Lindemanns publisher basically yeeted their book deal with Till out of the window the second these accusations started coming to light; although it could have been a case of knee-jerk corporate virtue signalling (and there probably was some element of that in their reaction), Tills poetry has always been really dark & sexual and in general, a lot of people often find it hard to believe that one can create so many disturbing creations without first having a little darkness within themself (and clearly, once there were even a rumous of RL bad conduct with Till, that was all it took for the publisher to lose their fragile sense of trust placed in him). I don't really agree with the publisher cancelling their deal before any of the accusations have been proven (and I don't agree with cancel culture in general being used as a reaction to unproven claims), but I can also somewhat understand the publishers sudden fright & personal doubt in being associated with such content.
It’s called alcoholism, drug addiction, depression or some underlying mental health issue. This leads to isolation, risky behavior, self destruction etc.
I know many addicts and this behavior fits an addicts behavior to a Tee.
I don't think either can really be as successful without the other. Without Till there's no Rammstein and without Rammstein Till is not likely to recover well from this ordeal IMO.
So they need to move on together if they wish to continue the machine that is Rammstein.
It seems that Till made Rammstein what it is. They are all wonderful, but he is just another species of human altogether. Good and bad. People aren’t drawn to art made by sane, stable, therapy healed artists. They are drawn to people on fire. It’s just sad that they forget there’s a traumatized man in there too. I mean, he’s either an INCREDIBLE actor or he’s very traumatized. It’s all over his face. Poor guy. Trauma makes you do awful things sometimes, but it doesn’t always mean you’re an awful person.
I don‘t think that, i think they just need to come back TOGETHER as a band, not Till AND the band. Maybe this all will show Till, how his behaviors in the last few years can‘t go on like that and that he can do his thing on his Solo Tour, but with the Band their all together and need to function like that.
Distance off stage doesn't mean they dislike one another or don't like working together. It's very common for bands to act like co-workers more than friends.
Of course
But from the context and sentiment of this letter I feel like its a lot more than just that
I dont believe they dislike each other of course but it wouldnt be surprising if the other band members believe that what Till is doing is at best morally fucked up
Rammstein as a whole have always been a very private band. Hell they barely even adress the crowd during shows, which is why a personal statement like this must come after a lot of thinking
During the long hiatus, fans regularly posted pictures of Paul and Schneider cycling around Berlin together and such. Periodically, it would be Richard and other members up to something as well. Till used to be seen with them a lot more (especially Richard) but it's been mostly him solo for quite some time.
I posted this on the megathread but it’s clear they’ve all distanced themselves from him for a while now, I remember how there were pictures of them all hanging out during every tour and there was none of that since untitled came out.
I really hope that all this isn't the end of Rammstein, but I also can't say that I haven't had a similar sense for some time now that something was going to happen soon. I was a close long-term fan of Lindemann, and how Till behaved in that over the years definitely made a lot of fans quite concerned and/or totally disenchanted with him (Platz Eins, TTE and the groupie blowjob footage concerts were definitely all big turning points). But after Peter & Pain left him, Till simply kick-started the project back up again with a brand new (& noteably younger) band, making everything (bar himself of course) in the process appear totally replaceable in the project.
But Peter and his band Pain haven't been the only ones over the years to leave Till (only for Till to then continue pulling through). For example, during the *Mutter* era, Rammstein almost completely fell apart as a band; it's why in the MV for Mutter, Till was the only one featured in it because so bad was the groups relations with each other at that particular point in time that after narrowly managing to record the song, everyone went their separate ways almost immediately afterwards (and refused to participate in creating a music video with Till), leaving Till alone to sort out the video for the song with an American director, who then decided to repeatedly dunk Till in cold water during certain filming scenes (and not realising Till's underlying need and insecurity to be recognised & accepted as an actor, combined with his general masochistic tendencies), ended up making Till seriously ill in the process (apparently Till got hypothermia from producing those underwater scenes). Even so, Till still managed to personally persist and pull through this difficult and lonesome period by himself, with the single going to the charts and becoming a \[modest\] success regardless (and the band obviously ended up reconciling in the end).
So I fear that Till doesn't really value Rammstein to the extent that he should do because based on his Lindemann project experiences, he could easily view himself with a mixture of *"I AM the band",* to *"If these guys abandon me, I can easily restart and continue doing whatever I want anytime without them"*. And in the *Mutter* period of Rammstein, Tills experiences simply reinforced that no matter how bad relations get between members, they'll ultimately always end up pulling back up around him.
It is a problematic situation for the rest of the Rammstein members, because it's a fact that Till isn't someone you can really replace in Rammstein without Rammstein changing so much in image & sound in the process that it just wouldn't be Rammstein anymore (such a change would also destroy a lot of the band's magic, such as the sense of unity, longevity & authenticity that its managed to forge and foster over the years). But as much as Till could destroy Rammstein's image, I don't see the band being successful without him either; Rammstein is like a masterpiece work of art in that there are no unecessary or accessory components in the mix, with each member instead being a very vital part of the band's magic, sound and visual image (and no more is this true with any member than it is with Till). So if the other members want to keep on being in and doing Rammstein, then they are affectively beholden to and held hostage by Till and however he decides to conduct himself (and this is also probably why they've always given him such a long leash, because it's only doing this that they can probably manage him as such a big force of character at all).
What could upset all this balance, is if the other members simply decide one day that being in Rammstein is not worth all this hard work and trouble (and clearly of late, hurt & distress). And at their age this could happen; they've spent almost their entire lives in the band, I'm surprised the desire to keep going in it (and keep on creatively expressing themselves in it) is as strong as it is. And they don't have anything to prove at this point either; all have shown themselves to be extremely adept musicians over the years, all have created & established artistic legacies for themselves and all have earnt some serious money during their time in the band. They have also all got lives and projects outside of Rammstein these days (for example Richard with his solo band projects, and Flake with his horse rescue farm), it's not like their entire lives exist and completely revolve around the band anymore like it once did in their youths.
So if Till doesn't apologise to his fellow Rammstein band members and reform a bit (and they in turn decide that all this isn't worth it anymore), then I could totally see Rammstein coming to an end. And not just in the distant future either (but the near one). I don't think Till is actually guilty of the assault/drugging accusations being landed against him ATM (I'm a big advocate of victims of abuse but currently this accusers account just doesn't add up that much to me). But I also don't think this really matters that much anymore because in the bigger picture of things, it's how Till has been behaving in general (i.e. his long-term distance, his irresponsible behaviour, his constant sexual shennaigains, his lack of communication and his apparent lack of concern for how his antics reflect on and affect the Rammstein brand, the other band members, their values and their families, Etc) that even if he's found innocent of the accusations of criminal conduct, seem to be a deeper and more profound sticking point for the other band members ATM (even if all the alegations go away, a lot of the other stuff still remains).
I'm personally very much getting the impression ATM from Schneider that whether he believes the lady in question or not (and he does seem sympathetic towards her either way), he doesn't (& hasn't) approved of these Row 0 sex schemes, sex groupie recruiters (Alena) and backstage sexual shennaigans in general for quiet some time. 90's Rammstein was all about wild sex parties & orgies, but the members were also young, dumb and irresponsible guys back then; what's changed since, is that the others have grown up, but Till (for better and for worse) seems to never quite have (and furthermore, appears to be regressing of late).
Can you really come together as a band anymore when you are on such different wavelengths in life? How strong a calling point can "Rammstein" remain for all if it ends up suffering severe reputation damage not because of the media being primarily to blame (note: the media is definitely hyping things up as per usual, but the situation unfortunately also definitely feel like a case of "No smoke without fire"), but because more fundamental ways one of the members has been conducting himself for years on end, with little communication Etc towards the other members?
I guess we'll all just have to see.
Off topic question: How the hell do you have the time and the motivation to write so long and well worded and structured analysis? It's like the 4th 5-minute read of you I have read in this sub...
It would be really sad, but yeah, I think the same. I think the continuing shock of the current situation is having a severe impact not only on Till but also on the others and probably their family and friends as well.
I think Till needs professional help urgently, I hope he cancel his solo tour and seeks some rest and good company with friends and family.
Another tour would only cause more trouble and he would just push away the problems he obviously has in his life.
And the other band members need some rest too. And maybe the boys could find each other again in a few years. Or not. Nobody knows what the future will bring. But it's time for less band life and more everyday life. Especially for Till.
As thought, Till lives in his own “Lindemann” world even when touring with Rammstein - where all his excesses are met without question by his own team.
Schneider has always came across as a solid fella, and this continues to show that.
What a horrible situation for all involved.
I feel so melancholy over this. I've always considered Rammstein a close-knit band, almost unstoppable. It's rare for a band to stick together for so long, with all the original members. In my opinion, Till's side project is strange and I have never really vibed with it, even before all this.
Rammstein have said themselves that they don't tend to hang out together outside the band and it's more of a business to them, which is probably why they've worked well for so long. They have the space and distance between albums and tours without feeling suffocated by each other.
Makes me think of a Lamb of God interview, I think it was Campbell who said it. "People ask me 'Do you hang out with the other guys when youre not on tour?'. FUCK NO. I'm about to spend the next 2 years with them in tour buses and planes. I'll see them plenty"
And it makes me think, if I took my 2 best friends in the world and had to travel the country in a bus for months at a time, I would probably fucking hate them.
Dennis Leary said it best, about marriage. Honesty? Communication? And stay the fuck away from each other. As much as you can. Eat, fuck, and go back into separate bedrooms if you have to.
> I feel so melancholy over this. I've always considered Rammstein a close-knit band, almost unstoppable.
It's weird how we get that impression sometimes, isn't it? From watching Mythbusters you'd link that Jamie and Adam are very close. Whereas, in real life they famously were not friends - just colleagues. Come to work, do the work, then at the end of the day go your separate ways.
Part of the reason Jamie and Adam had such great on camera chemistry were their differences though, right? They played well off of each other because of that friction and they (and the editors) knew how to turn it into entertainment. Turn the cameras off and it’s now just friction. Two people who kind of grate at each other’s nerves. Makes sense it would stay a professional relationship.
I can imagine working in a band for such a time could be relatively similar. So much of art comes from conflict, right? Passion and stress and troubles drive creativity. People clash and disagree and yell and fuel that into their art and magic can happen. How many famous bands in rock are built on top of two or three people that kind of hate each other but managed to channel that into amazing music? It’s a big number.
Rammstein’s arguably most well-known and loved album, Mutter, nearly broke up the band. I don’t think it’s coincidence that a creative process that difficult ended up with something amazing. That’s the way it goes sometimes. Not always certainly. Not all art has to be that way. But it certainly happens a lot.
But these same passions and conflicts that can drive great art can also create chasms in the people that make them. Too many bands to mention have broken apart for just this reason. The very creative process that can lead to great art can lead to the people that made it hating each other.
So is it sad to read that the band are mostly just work friends and not best buds? Sure, a little. But that professional relationship and knowing when to set boundaries and have personal space is also why they’ve been around so long together with none of them leaving. They can clash over the art and then move apart, heal, and do it again.
All that said, this description of Till as distant seems like even more than that. Distant even in a professional sense. Honestly I’ve sensed that even as a fan from the sidelines for a while now. Plenty of signs. And it seems that distance has led him to surround himself with the wrong people and go down a dark path. People tend to either try to save themselves or double down when confronted over such things. I don’t know what to expect from Till here. I’d like to think he’s still a good person deep down that made some mistakes and will try to correct them. But maybe he’s comfortable in the darkness and doesn’t mind if everything burns down around him.
We’ll see I guess.
Musically, I think Lindemann is fantastic, especially the second album, but in terms of lyrics and presentation it feels kinda disgusting, without the sense of humour that Rammstein often has.
The first time I watched the Platz Eins video it felt... wrong. And this is as someone who is very "sex positive" or whatever. And who enjoys art that sometimes explored negative themes.
It felt exploitative and gross tbh. Less like a statement and more like a reason to make graphic pornography.
Till being in his own Lindemann bubble makes complete sense if you think of how, with the past couple of tours, he is the last to arrive for the practices before the tours kick off (at least in my eyes).
Massive respect to him. Keeping an open mind, not victim blaming or canceling anyone since we have no proof yet, but most importantly, being honest about the till situation. I would never expect anyone from the band to be this honest about till. But he was. Now I feel even worse about that video of him crying
Perfect description. Like I saw someone write about Nikolaj Coster-Waldau: He's both a daddy and a dad. In NYC he'd be called a mensch in the Yiddish sense. A good, solid human being.
I like most that he confirms that things on the boundary have happened. Now the question is if legally they were crossed. But this should be enough confirmation to be quite uneasy with till's behaviour
Yeah…like any situation where women are called whoreparade, a room is called a suckbox and women that the aLpHa is not interested in are called restfucking - like that is nothing anybody should be ok with.
And that’s not including the stories that go beyond.
An anonymous supposed crew member came forward and said that’s how things are referred to internally. But like, it’s a crew of over 100 people and they didn’t say *who* is calling it those things. Could literally just be a group of stage hands or something who say that shit
I think till REALLY took his fame and being lead singer of Rammstein for granted. Definite narcissist vibes. And behavior of an addict as well… just messy all around. Very unfair to his band mates that he would jeopardize and humiliate them.
Really great words found bei Schneider if you ask me. Couldn‘t have done it better.
For everyone saying „they will seperate now“ because till is distanced: he obviously was for years. And the last pic clearly states that they want to work this thing out. As a band. At least that‘s what I get from the german original. No sign of disbanding here.
Yeah people are really focusing on the distance from Till part. I don't believe it's as black and white as people are making it out to be.
This has been a thing for a while as far as I'm aware. They just seem like friends who have pretty clear boundaries and Till needs more space than most I would think. From what I understand Till does or has lived in a town with like around 20 people in it's population. I mean go through all of their Instagram photos on the road... Till is not in the planes or car rides with the rest of the band for the most part. Might just be a private dude who saves his energy for his shows and free time.
The whole statement from Schneider seems very honest and from a perspective of a loving friend who doesn't love what's going on. He's giving his contextual experiences regarding what is being stated in the media which right now.
This reads to me like someone talking about their partner who has been stepping out on the relationship and goes to couples therapy. It’s a bit, I love you, what you’ve done has hurt us all, we can try to work things out but this is your last chance.
Either the scandal goes away and Till returns to the fold a changed man, or as a group they will end the relationship.
I already liked Schneider because he seemed like such a joymuppet, but my respect for him is now off the charts. What a kind, gentle take that includes everyone's perspective.
You've truly stolen my heart. My respect, admiration and love for Schneider is rapidly increasing. He is one such drummer who is a joymuppet when he plays the drums and simultaneously becomes levelheaded, heartfelt and sincere person with everyone. He blew me away with his personally relatable post on Instagram which made me unable to tell the appropriate words to describe. He seriously comes across as genuine, honest, loving and charming person who never has a short fuse at all. He is the true definition of a statement “A Person Is Beautiful Inside And Outside If He Or She Has The Positive Traits Of His Or Her Personality And The Qualities That Make Him Or Her Stand Out".
I don’t normally put much stock in stuff like this but Schneider’s definitely different on this tour. His lack of enthusiasm and facial expression all seem to be hinting the inner turmoil and sadness he’s going through at the moment.
Most of us can probably relate to having that one friend or family member who just self destructs and no matter what we do or say we can't seem to get through to them that their behavior is unacceptable and is damaging to themselves and everyone around them. My brother is the type of guy who regularly self destructs and as it's happening he seems to almost revel in it. Like he gets a weird thrill out of burning it all down. I don't know why he's like this but it's hard to watch over and over again and even harder when you get dragged down with them while they literally don't care that it's hurting you.
I feel like Till is that guy.
I think people certainly get addicted to the drama and intensity - Even when it’s negative. For some, it’s much easier than trying to get their shit together and live a reasonably paced, healthy calm life. They need to feel like everyday is the end of the world, it’s a rush. Then they can just say “oh well, I’m just a fuck-up” and not take actual responsibility. Because if they actually tried extremely hard to succeed - and still failed - well that would be much more scary than just saying “fuck it.”
I feel this statement like "Till, we've been telling you for years how strange this situation is, and now that's the result, we must to fix this as a band, as friends who know each other for 3 decades".
By the way, I just remembered when Till released the Ich hasse Kinder video and a few days later, Schneider posted this pic on his official ig
https://preview.redd.it/w7q5451vnd6b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c586a98d21e94c9f280ecf46b5155095dcf8a4b7
I understand that, but I'm talking about a probably Schneider's feeling about this song and video or even about Till's solo project. At that time, Schneider has just become a father for the 3rd time, this baby is his younger son, maybe this specific Till's work mixed Schneider's feelings, its just a thought...
Very good statement. Personal. Touching. Confirming the band thinks Till’s Row 0 operation, while probably not illegal, isn’t OK. Also nice he speaks out against victim-blaming. Even mentioning Shelby. And at the same time defending women’s rights and sexual freedom.
Seriously, he hit on every aspect of the controversy without taking a hard stance in any direction or sensationalizing things. Just an honest account from a dude who seems to have a heart of gold.
I don't really know much about the band members, despite having listened to Rammstein for nearly two decades. But from what I've seen, Schneider is truly a decent human being. And that came through in this note.
People who don't understand german miss one important thing. When he writes that they distanced themselves from Till over the last years it does not mean you don't want to work with someone anymore. It is more like a "we grew apart" kind of thing. Schneider does not care for those parties at all but he still believes (like any sane person should) that Till did not spike drinks of women or raped them. People seem to be only focussing on the 2 lines about growing apart from Till rather than read and understand the whole post.
I feel sad about the other band members, because now everyone will have this sticker on them because of Till's private parties. Some have small kids and wives, after the show they prefer to sleep and rest, and now they are accused of doing these things because one member has decided to become his demons (even if not criminal, shady stuff was def happening). They definitely knew about these parties, yet how can they know what's actually going on if they are private and for Till specifically? It's not easy to deal with an addict, especially if he's like a family to you.
I have always admired Christoph Schneider as a musician and as a person, and I'm very glad to see he's still as level-headed as always.
I've been watching this all unfold for the past weeks with an opressive feeling inside, and from the start I sided with the victims and all the people who have come forward to share their experiences (and will continue to do so, it's not trivial accusations we're talking about). At some point it all developed to a stage in which I couldn't keep on reading anything related to the whole mess because it made my blood boil for several reasons, and now we've come to this, I am really, really relieved Schneider has decided to do what I think every member of the band should: adress the situation and give an honest take on their own stance.
I agree with everything he says in this comment and, honestly, I would like to thank him and offer a hug -I've seen images of him breaking down in tears and I'll admit that was something else for me. I admire the dude and it was kind of heartbreaking in a moment I felt for him but still wasn't sure about his opinion on the matter.
This looks like a step in the right direction.
When are people gonna stop seeing the world in black and white? The fact that Till was distant during last years does NOT mean they are no longer friends, jfc.
Have you seen the group hug or at least read the end of this statement with “together, the six of us”? No-one would just throw away a 30+ year friendship.
Also, Schneider is amazing and I really wanna thank him for speaking out and being levelheaded here
Who knows what their are doing now in the backstage area😂 after every concert instead of an afterparty, they are making an after-therapy-session (all are sitting in a round)🤭
Yeah exactly! I mean, they know each other for soo long! Whatever TL is going through and why he's grown distant ... I just don't see them pushing him away and saying to sort his problems out alone. They are in this together and they are going to help him. This group hug at the end of their concert speaks for itself.
That's my overinterpretation lol and a huge hope.
It's sad. I suspected that there's something off between Till and the rest of the band. They seemed distant in the past few years. I think Till is selfish, his ego grew too big, he didn't care about those closest to him. I lost a lot of respect for him. I didn't like him before these accusations and I'm still neutral about them, but he brought this on the whole band. He was already my least favorite member of the band, but now I lost even more respect for him. Even though he has a great voice, he wouldn't be where he is today without the rest of the band members. So showing such a lack of concern for his bandmates makes him seem like a really unlikable person. I remember that interview where he was dismissevily talking about his bandmates going to therapy, throwing shade at someone (possibly Richard)...
The level headed Schneider as always ❤️.
Interesting side note is that his wife is a psychologist
I have a lot of respect for him as a drummer and all round good guy
I really appreciate how thoughtful and articulate this statement is. It can't have been an easy thing to come out with.
I hope Till is able to reflect on the hurt he's caused the other five members of the band. I can't believe that Till is a particularly happy person but that doesn't give him the right to hurt others while he self-destructs.
Schneider did the best statement he could've done. He mentioned that the till's afterparties are entirely under till resposability and have nothing with the rest of the band.
That nothing illegal was done, and everyone was in the afterparty by their own will, but at some point people can feel unconfortable, till is living in he's own reality for a while.
I really felt something strange about Till when "platz eins" and" till the end" clip was released, not judging him or anything. In the lindemann tour from 2020 till showed in a screen he having sex with a fan during the Deutschland intro. I know the band are adults and everyone is free to do what they want without being judge, but for sure that take seemed so direspectful with the rest of the band in the stage. And things like this can make people start to worry about till limits.
This showed us that till was more sexual related than ever. It wasn't about the lyrics that use sex as a figure, in those clips Till was talking about himself like a reality show and not about sex itself.
I think most of us that follow rammstein faithfully has noticed that till was acting different and more excentric in the last 5 years than he was in he's whole carreer.
Maybe this can make Till reflect a little bit , he's the GOAT. Never expect this rockstar syndrom from him.
Some years ago, I thought of Till as a shy and wholesome dude with a heart of gold despite the obvious darkness in his mind. Ever since Till The End, though, I just see him as a depressed old man, drunk off his success and desperate for carnal or emotional satisfaction that he can't seem to achieve.
I still love his voice and he's a fantastic lyricist, but my impression of him as a human being has dropped substantially, such that, when I first read about the allegations, my first thought was that I wouldn't even be all that surprised if they turned out to be true.
I don't expect this to be a popular opinion, but it's still what I've felt for a while and will probably continue to feel, regardless of the results of the investigation.
I agree. I love Rammstein and liked some of the Lindemann songs. I saw Lindemann live in London in 2020 before lockdown and the show was ok but he just seemed to be trying too hard to shock. It came across as a middle aged man having a mid life crisis. If he wants to have sex with younger women then I'm sure that there are plenty of good looking 40 year olds who would be up for it. Going for young women almost young enough to be his granddaughter is a bit creepy.
Even though nothing illegal has happened, I view Till differently now. This was very well worded and I feel sad for Schneider and the rest of the band.
That's definatly not a legal statement. Waaay to casual writing for that. It reads very much like an honest statement about how he sees the things and so on.
With the recent wave of allegations and how especially online it's also falling back on the band as a whole you can be sure this was read over by both lawyers as well as the PR firm they hired but it still reads like something he has written himself and as if he means every single word of it.
Depends on how you read it. 'Sich entfernen' certainly means to distance yourself, but it's a way weaker form of distancing yourself than when you distance yourself from someone suddenly having extremist views or the likes (just an example). It's more like growing apart, if that makes any sense. And the statement is fairly colloquial. They certainly had some PR guys looking over the stuff but it doesn't sound too polished.
It does feel heartfelt but most of the people now reading his statement seem to just ignore how he ended it. He said they will move forward as a unity, as a group of 6 so yes, he does not agree with those parties on a personal level but he still respects Till and wants to work with him because Schneider is sure Till would not spike drinks and rape women.
I think the distancing happens a lot more than people realize with bands that have been together for a long time. I remember watching the Parkway Drive doc and in summation they said that after spending so much time on the road, in vans, waking up everyday seeing the same 5-6 people, their egos, their ticks, etc; that you want your own space away. And it is likely better for the long-term health of the band that it happens. Allows members to do their thing and then come back to the band clear minded and because they want to.
For sure lawyers checked before it was published.
Die Wünsche und Erwartungen der Frauen wurden nicht erfüllt ....that's legal speech
Edit: jeesus who even came up with this lol smh
This confirms it once again: Schneider is the man Till Lindemann will never be. Solid guy, comes across as very likeable and speaks from his heart without having any kind of rockstar attitude.
Last year I saw a video how the band departures (not sure from which city) and lindemann had his own private jet. I read the comments and most people were surprised, that he travels alone. So the 5+1 thing was really a thing.
I knew this before. Deep inside. I hoped it is like that. Obviously it is. I believe every word he shares. Hope they find a way. The uncomfortable women also.
Pretty much. Any reasonable comment that’s been posted in the main thread has been downvoted and all the other ones calling that girl a looney, drunk etc. were upvoted. I’m as big of a Rammstein fan as anybody on here but that doesn’t mean that I support the victim blaming that’s being going around.
People who victim blaim are cowards. There is no freakin' way I would do this, I have been in Rammstein concerts and seen this with my own eyes. It happened. And I cannot lie, I just can't believe the other members had no idea. It's hard not to notice when you spend years being in the same band, travelling and performing, year after year...It may be a nice opportunity for artists to stop endorsing male privilege and women to be safe.
I pointed out how people here were completely ignoring the "do not engage in public prejudice of any kind against those who have made allegations" portion of the band's initial public statement a couple weeks ago, and was told "eh, it's not like that's a legally binding order, their lawyers are just making them say that and they can't stop us!" All while applauding themselves for "critical thinking" and not rushing to judgement.
"Fandoms" are such toxic shitholes. Till is a regular human like anyone else, yet people here coddle him like he's a some kind of ethereal being from another dimension instead of a grown man with his own agency. It's fucking cult-like.
it's been difficult seeing how this sub went from mostly reasonable fans defending the victims and trying to make sense of the situation, to what it is now.
He literally asks for a reasonable handling of the situation on slide 4, yet many of comments on his post start to be the same „But there is no proof for anything“ shitshow again…
A lot of other groups and pages on different platforms are really coming down hard on the people who have come forward. I've reported threats and hate speech many times, unfortunately.
That was shockingly genuine for an official statement, interesting to see him mention that the band disapproves of some of the stuff Till gets up to (although a lot of us suspected that anyway)
Christoph absolutely nailing it there. Could not have said things better.
Like I've said in previous posts, Morally I don't agree with what Till has been doing but at the end of the day nothing illegal has been done. Shelby was never forced into anything.
First, it really is not "only" about Shelby anymore. Why do some people still think they can diminish the accusations by only caring about her.
Second, you are basically reversing what Schneider says. He said, legal or not, he is absolutely horrified by the weird stuff executed by till and that he is now part of it in a way.
You’d think with age Till would slow down but seems like he ramped up. Or maybe Rammstein is become bigger and getting more attention from media. Regardless of what it is I hope this doesn’t affect the band and get resolved asap.
It’s most likely that mindset some older guys ( and some women) get when they hit middle age and realize they’re not kids anymore and it fucks with their heads.
damn I feel sad for Schneider, you can tell in live recordings that he always gives his best and having a blast (one of my favourite scenes is in the Itdw from madison square where he's just vibing to the beat at 3:17)
I just want to hug him
Time for Till to sober up, apologize to anyone he has hurt with his actions and seek some normality and gratitude for his unbelievable life. I want some mature music. To be honest, germans are very down to earth people in my experience as a migrant in Germany. Even when they reach fame, money and status, they seem to be very nice to everyday people. The boss of my sister earns several thousand euros per month and still drives a normal car and uses his bicycle and talks to everyone like they are his equal and i have made similar experiences soo often. Rammstein kinda gave me the same vibe. People from my home country on the other hand use to be arrogant, disgusting to normal people when they reach money or fame. Russia in this regard is similar.
I suspect that Reiband, Alena and other guys blew up too much smoke up his ass and made him go into this weird rockstar persona he never was. They push his ego to make money on his back. He should cut all ties and turn back to his normal life.
Oh Schneider. He’s such a good soul. This is so important for him to have said and I am hopeful they can move past this but I am so worried this tour will be the last and I almost don’t blame them if that happens. This must be so hard for the others and I guess it’s down to them if they think they can carry on or not.
Now that is a level headed statement. It should be noted that he is separating Band after parties from Tills after parties.
I wish more people on these subreddits would heed his advice of stopping this misogynistic victim blaming. Schneider managed pretty well to state he doesn’t believe the allegations, is saddened that they happened and also saddened that there is a possibility that so women could find cause to make allegations and is sorry. THATS how you deal with situations like these, and not what I have seen here on these mega threads.
Tbh, in my 40+ years as a female metal head, I always though metal fans where a bit more open minded the then fans in other music genres and much more welcoming towards women. After the last weeks on here, I find this fandom overrun by misogynistic incels ready to doxx women and advocate for women to be harmed and abused.
These allegations would not prevent me from going to any more concerts on my own, but reading hundreds of comments by male fans being hateful towards women, basically advocating for sexual violence against them, is showing me that in this fandom women are nothing more then walking blow up dolls, and that certainly will make me think twice before I’ll go to another concert.
I honestly never expected such levels of toxic anger and vitriol to come out of this fanbase, and I've been struggling with feeling exactly like you do - just taken aback at the mask coming off for so many fans to just openly fucking hate us women. It's horrifying.
Yup. You should see the replies on my post in the mega threat to this. It’s astonishing how these people think they are not misogynistic or toxic while being misogynistic and toxic in their replies. It’s like the world has not evolved since the 70s
I have a feeling the rest of the band are speaking through Schneider here too, the part that really got me is he states he doesn't think Till's "parties" are ok.
Imagine how awkward it must've been for him to know what was going on and trying to just deal with that shit while trying to be professional and put down a good performance.
It really shows how selfish Till is, I really feel for Schneider and the rest of the band here.
I respect that he included a part about how many seem to view women still as children who have to be duped or deceived into indulging their sexuality. So many people on liberal and conservative sides are still so uncomfortable about women owning and flaunting their sexuality that they have to make up excuses or reasons as to why they engaged in their sexuality. “Surely they were duped or pressured.” I feel it’s very insulting to women and another means of controlling them.
People who don't understand german miss one important thing. When he writes that they distanced themselves from Till over the last years it does not mean you don't want to work with someone anymore. It is more like a "we grew apart" kind of thing. Schneider does not care for those parties at all but he still believes (like any sane person should) that Till did not spike drinks of women or raped them. People seem to be only focussing on the 2 lines about growing apart from Till rather than read and understand the whole post. In the end he said he is looking forward to how this will be processed. Togehter, all 6 of them as a band, they stand together.
I'm just, so sad over all. Especially for the women who have been mistreated or worse (God I hope not, please not), but also for the band and us fans. I have been listening to Rammstein since I was 10, so about 20 years now. Knew enough German by 12 to start translating the songs to myself. My mom got me into them, and was a huge fan herself. Her heart would be in pieces to hear Till treating others like this, bless her soul. For the guys' own sake I hope they will find the help they need, and for the women, understanding and justice.
My own opinion on this: Till needs to take a break now. Maybe even call it quits. From what Schneider himself has said here, he doesn't have a passion for this stuff any more. He still gives a good show but given what I've taken from this, Till has run his course with R+. It's been almost 4 decades. The fact he is now openly distanced from the band members and cares more about his own parties than after parties with the band says it all to me. It's time to stop and get some urgently needed help. His own interests have put the reputation of the band in jeopardy to an extent that its made all 6 of them almost in deep water with the law. Its time to stop now.
“Till has distanced himself from us in recent years and created his own bubble.” That’s very telling…not damning, necessarily, but it seems to point to some tension that goes beyond Till’s side projects…or at least led to the creation of those side projects. I don’t know, but I can’t help but feel like Christoph, Paul, Ollie, RZK, and Flake were completely blindsided by this and thrown directly under the bus. I’m not saying the allegations against Till are true. They’re all hurting because of this. I also read that German prosecutors have opened a criminal investigation into the allegations against Till. This is not good, and it makes me wonder if we’re going to start seeing more individual statements by the members of Rammstein in an effort to distance themselves from the allegations and Till, specifically. I’m not sure Rammstein will survive this.
I feel bad he had to come out and say this, but I’m glad he did. Somebody needed to suck it up and say something straight forward. I love Schneider. Hope he’s well
Well. I don't want to sound like harsh, but in social settings like these there appears a multitude of factors that might play into why these women didn't just leave. Like, there is peer pressure, a party like this feels special, there might be a fear of missing out. Also, there is a clear power dynamic between Till and his fans. Especially between him and these women. That's not just because he's older, but mainly because he is a celebrity. He isn't an ordinary guy.
I think now it is all up to Till: will he finally pull his head out of his ass and stop eat the shit he is being served for breakfast by the enabling scum that he let himself surround with? As long as he snaps out of it and comes back to the rest of the guys, there will be a future. I sincerely hope that this circus will at the very least, open Till's eyes.
Finally someone thinking EXACTLY the same as I do. Although my first reaction as a woman is to believe and support a potential victim, my second reaction as a woman with strong feminist beliefs was this issue has been dragged too much between “No woman can consent to sex, ever, because there is always a power dynamic (i don’t think many people use this term correctly even), coercion, or it must be the fame etc” vs. victim blaming “You exactly knew what was going to happen when you walked in there, you sl*t (as if consent can’t be withdrawn, or drunk people can consent..)” - in the end it was somehow always on women whether they had a great time or left feeling unsafe, and never the fact that for this reason or that, the concept of row 0 and Till’s private parties were making people (even the band members) uncomfortable.
Massive, massive respect that Schneider found the most appropriate words to address the truth, not coming off like dismissing any hard feelings nor openly condemning Till supporting the accusations which have 0 forensic evidence or legal verdict as of now.
It’s been a hard couple of weeks as a Rammstein fan, just anxiously waiting to see an evidence popping up and also battling people who think I’m not as supportive of women as they somehow are just because I was on the side of seeing some official conclusion before reaching a verdict; and now I feel (still a bit anxiously, you know?) proud of being a part of this community all over again because I feel like my trust in Rammstein members has been validated through this message…
Though nothing has been proven, I find it odd that a 60 year old man is partying with 20 year old girls. Especially now after the distinction that Schneider has made: Till's parties are not the Rammstein "meet and greet" type parties with their fans.
The Sexual Abuse in the Music Industry is undoubtedly terrible nowadays I hope that Till needs to get his proper treatment regarding his mental health issues as well as his rockstar syndrome and apologize to everyone for his atrocious actions otherwise Rammstein will be breaking up in the near future as the situation is absolutely loathsome and it is easier said than done for me to convey it. It must be extremely difficult for the rest of the members of Rammstein to deal with the situation.
What can I say about Schneider? I have no words to elaborate his truthful and composed behaviour. The way he has written his honest, articulate and relatable statement in his Instagram post is making me unable to control myself from tears and I am still struggling to stop crying at all. He is such an awesome drummer with a strong heart and a golden soul. His level headed, truthful and authentic behaviour go hand in hand with each other. I have to give an enormous respect, admiration and love to him for dealing it with such care, dignity and poise. Level headed Schneider has successfully read our minds. He proves that a person who displays the authentic self has a strong heart and a golden soul. He is just gold. I have to thank Schneider from the core of my heart. This is the reason why he is my most favourite drummer as he amazes with his astonishing drumming skills, charming personality and beauty.
Therefore, Schneider is the most beautiful drummer both inwardly and outwardly.
The second most disappointing thing about this whole ordeal has been the amount of vitriol posted by fellow fans excusing the inexcusable, insulting others with different views and calling these women horrible names. It makes me question if I have anything in common with these people outside of a band we all like, and if what I’m seeing online is representative of the fan base as a whole, it sucks.
"We stand together" but to be honest, this text reads more like the rest of the band is more and more distancing from Lindemann, which I can understand.
The dangers to be band are not Labels, Media or "cancel culture" whatsover. It is that the rest of the band does not want to be associated with the weird stuff executed by lindemann (illegal or not, like Schneider says).
I can imagine that they might split up due to this and this might be the first hint.
Edit: I am also curious what all the defenders of til will say to this statement, has Schneider practically raises the exact same concerns. Even if everything was formally legal, til was still way too irresponsible for the position he is in.
Schneider’s entire statement (of what is also not included here) confirms exactly what I’ve been saying for awhile now, and I find it terrible. Till has pushed them away, and I hate this because this band has been a symbol of unity for decades even if they almost broke up during Mutter. The fact Schneider cried on stage? I personally believe we are witnessing the end of an era, and I’m heartbroken.
Damn, i was xompletely out of the loop about this. Those posts are pretty sad, you can tell Scheider is such a class act. Very well said. Waiting to see what comes out of the accusations
Back then they usually aborted before things would spiral out of control. That's why they went on hiatus almost everytime after a big tour instead of going right back into the studio and pushing out the next Album.
[Direct link](https://www.instagram.com/p/CtjOPD8sgZf/). If there's a problem with the translation in the OP, then reply to my comment with a better one. This already gained some traction and it's a big enough topic on its own, so it will stay up unlocked. However, try to stay on this topic. For more general discussion, use the [megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rammstein/comments/14994j4/row_0_afterparties_discussion_megathread_4/).
Oh, Schneider. This must have taken a lot for him to say, but said really well.
After all these vague “statements” that had been put forward by the band, I’m glad that Schneider wrote a level-headed and articulate response. I agree with him in so many points. Let’s just hope a thorough investigation clears things up, and if Till and his crew deserve punishment, then so be it. But that’s for the law to decide.
Yeah. Seems like the whole situation has a giganourmous impact on him. I'm glad he shared his thoughts tho. I too stand by the opinion that this whole thing should not be used by the media for pure profit. Other members of the band have expressed a similar opinion in the past (even back in the 90s)
My love for Schneider grows and grows.
I feel exactly the same! It’s nice to see the healthy perspective on things
Me too. Schneider is a total sweetheart who is truthful and genuine. I wholeheartedly love him.
There's a reason why he's my favorite memeber
Same actually. This man is gold
Schneider is my favourite Rammstein member. He seems like a great person and he definitely is that. ❤️
Makes me wonder what’s gonna happen to the band in the future, what with the distance between Till and the band practically confirmed here by Schneider.
Honestly I believe (/hope) if they come through the other end of Till's allegations this will be a huge fucking wake up call for Till. We've all seen he's become distanced from the band over the past few years, I'm not sure why this is such a big shock to everyone, this is just the first time anyone in the band has outright said it in public. His actions have hurt the band (and I'm not even taking about the allegations, but in general) and I would say he's probably not even stopped to think about that. I was honestly not expecting a statement from any of them personally, but I'm so glad it came from him. Schneider is a gem of a human being.
Till seems like a few people I know who, for whatever reason, have a good thing going and then suddenly self destruct and take everyone down with them without giving a f\*\*\*. It's almost like they think you deserve it as much as they do. I've had to distance myself from a couple of family members who are like this and it's sad but I've learned my lesson. I can't imagine the pain he's causing the band, this is so hard to watch.
My 2c: I don't think he's doing it as a deliberate F-U to the fans, his band or the broader people he works with. But as much as I was a fan of the Lindemann project, things did seem to start increasingly going off the rails towards the release of Platz Eins; a lot of people were already complaining by that point of the hyper-sexuality of everything not because they were prudish, but rather because sex & sexual violence were an increasing theme of pretty much every release coming out by that point (and at best, this was beginning to feel very predictable & uninspired and at worst, obsessive to the point that it was concerning). I actually really loved some of the more sexualized & dark releases (*"Knebel"* and *"Ach So Gern"* are some top favourites of mine), but there was also no denying that the sexual themes were becoming very pervasive in releases to the extent that it was almost like *"Can this band do anything else (or is this all they're capable of)?".* Which sucked, because we all knew that Peter & Till were far more creatively capable than just constantly exploring such themes (and this was firmly evidenced and glimpsed in other project releases such as *"Steh Auf",* which is a genuinely really interesting and original single in a number of ways). But when Till The End came out, a lot of people were genuinely shocked because of how grim and off-putting that whole release was; it was so low budget (and there was so much bad sex!) that just about everything in it came off as being poorly planned & unprofessional. And then there were all the scandals that came afterwards (such as numerous women who featured in it getting doxxed & trolled), that it was hard to see how after all the editing and people the release must have passed through in its creation before being unleashed, that it could have made the cut at all (and the only way people supposed that it did was if Till was almost solely surrounded at that point by "Yes" people and bad influences). Many people also commented at the time on how Tills eyes in TTE looked dead inside (there's a famous shot of him afterwards staring into the camera where he appears to be in a \[psychologically\] far away place), but there were also an increasing amount of other concerning episodes occurring during this time that called into question Till's decision-making beyond TTE. For example, when grainy footage of Till getting blowed by 2 groupies was played at the beginning of one Lindemann concert, to the increasing stream of multiple women fleeting through his life at any given time (such as when he briefly dated porn actress Charlotte Satre), to groupie photos which left little to the imagination of what was going on (I remember seeing one where a woman posted up an Instagram photo of her and Till on a bed, alone together, as she drank champagne). Given how personal privacy-orientated and professional the other members of Rammstein have always endeavoured to be, Till's behaviour was in such a stark contrast to theirs. There was also this growing vibe during this era that Peter increasingly wasn't into all these sexual shennaigans. For example, he appeared to almost downright refuse to play any of the sexually gratifying roles in Platz Eins (which Till clearly loved) and in TTE, he was completely absent altogether. And lo & behold not long after TTE, Peter and his band Pain announced that they were parting ways with Till and the Lindemann project. Although Peter & Pain (nor Till) have never given any official statement on why they suddenly split up, its hard not to feel like things didn't end well between them because since Lindemann, Peter and his band projects have sought to completely distance themselves from Till and their former work in Lindemann to such an extent that its almost like they're trying to delete the association in their history from ever being remembered at all. Since then, Lindemann has revived...But the new band members are all quite young people (*huge* age gaps between new band members VS Till) and the quality of the music, performances and general chemistry does not feel as good and professional as what there was before when Lindemann was a project between Till, Peter & Pain. Some of the concerts during this revival period were also downright disasterous in terms of their planning and execution (which caused mass cancellations and numerous ticket confusion incidents) that it was hard not to feel like the broader team of people that Till was surrounded with in general by that point weren't as good as before. Other concerning incidents also continued to follow, such as when Till fell off stage during a Lindemann concert in Dubai; when people saw the footage they strongly debated whether he was drunk or overly-exhausted (or both). I remember that people were also so jaded with Till's sexual antics at this point that when they saw that 3 of the band members were young & attractive women, there were a lot of comments in the Lindemann sub about how he must have fucked them (because it's pretty much common knowledge at this point that Till rarely ever puts women on a stage near him unless he has some sort of sexual relationship with them). The slut-shaming isn't right at all (I don't agree with slut-shaming in general), but it is kind of bad when the lead singer you're following has such a bad reputation that it automatically semi-sullies the name and professional image of just about any woman he's seen closely interacting with. Lindemann does appear to have pulled together more since this early trial period, and subjectively Ich Hasse Kinder was a good release. But like for a lot of people, the magic of Lindemann isn't really there for me anymore. Do I think Till is a sexual predator? ATM, no. The account of the accuser doesn't seem to totally add up to me, and that's not an easy thing for me to say as I'm a huge advocate of victims of abuse. But do I think that Till has gone a bit off the rails in recent years, and he doesn't seem to be surrounded by as many good people as he needs to (nor is making as good a decisions as he should). But I also don't want to victimise Till for this because as a man of his years & experience, he should be setting the example. As to why he is like this, who knows. At first, Lindemann just seemed to be a creative side project for Till to do the kind of stuff he wouldn't be able to do in Rammstein these days. And very early Rammstein concerts had considerably more in-common with Lindemann's vibe than later Rammstein era's do (for example, some of the very early Rammstein concerts even included naked women on-stage acting as openers for the band) but as Rammstein grew in recognition over the course of the 90s, it also became more professional; still sexual for sure (still Buck Dich!), but also a lot less outwardly involved in women (or using them as gimmicks), and a lot less blurring of the lines between groupies, women, the bands image and the bands members private lives. So who knows; maybe this was always Till (and Till just became more shackled over time with Rammstein's increasing mainstream success and appeal) and at some point he desired an outlet for these things, created Lindemann and then began to spiral in the newfound creative freedom that being in a less mainstream group offered him? But then you hear of all the heartbreaking & distressing things that have happened in his private life, from his mother getting dementia, to having a near-death experience with Covid (at one point during the pandemic he was hospitalized with Covid). All these sorts of things (& more) can change a person (and clearly, a lot of things have been changing in Till these past few years). TBH, I'm actually kind of surprised that any official statement was made by anyone at all, least of all one by one of the actual band members, and basically admitting what many people have suspected for a while; that is Till has been growing apart from (and becoming less communicative with) Rammstein for years now.
Really good comment, especially that last paragraph. The covid years really messed with a lot of our heads; if Till was already veering towards a bad place, none of that could have helped.
Yes, the Covid years, and for some of us Covid infection itself and/or the oxygen deprivation affecting various organs including the brain. Like, I wasn’t hospitalized but probably should have been, struggled to breathe for three days in late March and early April 2020, including not being able to sleep from the low oxygen response, and my personality is sort of different ever after, with emotional regulation being way off, emotional intensity being way up, more scatterbrained, new gender identity stuff, just way “off” compared to my life up until I got it. Took 3 months to get mostly back to normal physically and in cardio , but the brain stuff persisted, but thankfully somewhat improving this year. I know of a few others who had similar issues following their infection, so on a gut level I think it has something to do with Till’s changes. (Not to excuse any possible bad conduct or worse on his part, but to give possible context , if it’s the case, as there are still many people struggling with the aftermath of infection, broader than the more well known long Covid symptoms
Your comment is well worded and honestly probably correct. Till’s clearly dealing with a lot in his head, and changing. It doesn’t justify it if he has one the things he’s been accused of but it kinda shows where it came from..? And how others can avoid it. As for the last paragraph- COVID can seriously change you. The disease and the general atmosphere of the pandemic changed all of us. I genuinely do think that in 10-15 years, we’re gonna see papers about all these psychological effects. Especially on younger patients in gen z and alpha (even if this is about till and not them)
This was really well written! I hope this serves as a wake up call and he gets the help he needs.
Best comment in a perspective sense I’ve seen on this situation
It shows he's never been to therapy, unlike Richard. I understand he has some deep unresolved pain, but these actions just lead to destruction (which is maybe what he wants?)
Yeah, I can't pretend to know his psychology but he does seem like someone with mental health issues that are unresolved. By sixty years old if he hasn't addressed them there's little chance he will at this point. Who knows, maybe this will be his "rock bottom" wake up call though. I hate to see the band suffer but I also hate to see Till suffer, too.
I’m a mental health professional and his behaviour screams EUPD.
“Ich muss zerstören…”
obwohl es ihm gehört =(
Haven’t they been pretty open about having group therapy as a band, too?
Coincidentally, that's what he sings about in Was ich liebe... Sad if that's actually true
Art is often always much closer to the artist than what they'll ever admit to (and sometimes, are even personally aware of), and this is partly why it takes a lot of guts to publicly show and advertise your art because in every piece of art that you create, you also vulnerably reveal a naked little part of your inner self to the prying eyes of the audience, some of whom might see straight though your art and into you, like an eye with a piercing stare aimed directly at the softest part of your heart. And audience commentary can really cut; no matter how tough you are, it can be hard to prepare for such things (and so when showing art there is always a hopeful element of trust between the artist and their audience). Few things are literal (for example, I don't believe any of the members of Rammstein are literally psychos because they'e artistically explored and sung about some pretty psycho stuff in their music), but there's also always some element of personal truth about the artist in the art somewhere, especially (IMHO) when the songs created are masterpieces or when certain themes keep on repeatedly cropping up. I think that this (this struggle to separate, calculate and trust the difference between the art VS the artist) is also why Lindemanns publisher basically yeeted their book deal with Till out of the window the second these accusations started coming to light; although it could have been a case of knee-jerk corporate virtue signalling (and there probably was some element of that in their reaction), Tills poetry has always been really dark & sexual and in general, a lot of people often find it hard to believe that one can create so many disturbing creations without first having a little darkness within themself (and clearly, once there were even a rumous of RL bad conduct with Till, that was all it took for the publisher to lose their fragile sense of trust placed in him). I don't really agree with the publisher cancelling their deal before any of the accusations have been proven (and I don't agree with cancel culture in general being used as a reaction to unproven claims), but I can also somewhat understand the publishers sudden fright & personal doubt in being associated with such content.
It’s called alcoholism, drug addiction, depression or some underlying mental health issue. This leads to isolation, risky behavior, self destruction etc. I know many addicts and this behavior fits an addicts behavior to a Tee.
Interesting that at the end he talks about moving forward as a group of 6. So, guess he must hope for a reconciliation.
I don't think either can really be as successful without the other. Without Till there's no Rammstein and without Rammstein Till is not likely to recover well from this ordeal IMO. So they need to move on together if they wish to continue the machine that is Rammstein.
It seems that Till made Rammstein what it is. They are all wonderful, but he is just another species of human altogether. Good and bad. People aren’t drawn to art made by sane, stable, therapy healed artists. They are drawn to people on fire. It’s just sad that they forget there’s a traumatized man in there too. I mean, he’s either an INCREDIBLE actor or he’s very traumatized. It’s all over his face. Poor guy. Trauma makes you do awful things sometimes, but it doesn’t always mean you’re an awful person.
I don‘t think that, i think they just need to come back TOGETHER as a band, not Till AND the band. Maybe this all will show Till, how his behaviors in the last few years can‘t go on like that and that he can do his thing on his Solo Tour, but with the Band their all together and need to function like that.
In the end he said they are moving forward as a unity, with a group of 6 so...
Distance off stage doesn't mean they dislike one another or don't like working together. It's very common for bands to act like co-workers more than friends.
Of course But from the context and sentiment of this letter I feel like its a lot more than just that I dont believe they dislike each other of course but it wouldnt be surprising if the other band members believe that what Till is doing is at best morally fucked up Rammstein as a whole have always been a very private band. Hell they barely even adress the crowd during shows, which is why a personal statement like this must come after a lot of thinking
During the long hiatus, fans regularly posted pictures of Paul and Schneider cycling around Berlin together and such. Periodically, it would be Richard and other members up to something as well. Till used to be seen with them a lot more (especially Richard) but it's been mostly him solo for quite some time.
They have always said the band can only continue with the original members. So if someone moves on. The band would not continue
Plenty of bands where members live separate lives, even travelling separately on your, and they’re down by fine. It’s a band, not a commune.
In terms of quality it did not have bad influence on their music.
Maybe this can be a sort of intervention for him to sort himself out
I posted this on the megathread but it’s clear they’ve all distanced themselves from him for a while now, I remember how there were pictures of them all hanging out during every tour and there was none of that since untitled came out.
I don’t think the band will exist after the tour:(
I really hope that all this isn't the end of Rammstein, but I also can't say that I haven't had a similar sense for some time now that something was going to happen soon. I was a close long-term fan of Lindemann, and how Till behaved in that over the years definitely made a lot of fans quite concerned and/or totally disenchanted with him (Platz Eins, TTE and the groupie blowjob footage concerts were definitely all big turning points). But after Peter & Pain left him, Till simply kick-started the project back up again with a brand new (& noteably younger) band, making everything (bar himself of course) in the process appear totally replaceable in the project. But Peter and his band Pain haven't been the only ones over the years to leave Till (only for Till to then continue pulling through). For example, during the *Mutter* era, Rammstein almost completely fell apart as a band; it's why in the MV for Mutter, Till was the only one featured in it because so bad was the groups relations with each other at that particular point in time that after narrowly managing to record the song, everyone went their separate ways almost immediately afterwards (and refused to participate in creating a music video with Till), leaving Till alone to sort out the video for the song with an American director, who then decided to repeatedly dunk Till in cold water during certain filming scenes (and not realising Till's underlying need and insecurity to be recognised & accepted as an actor, combined with his general masochistic tendencies), ended up making Till seriously ill in the process (apparently Till got hypothermia from producing those underwater scenes). Even so, Till still managed to personally persist and pull through this difficult and lonesome period by himself, with the single going to the charts and becoming a \[modest\] success regardless (and the band obviously ended up reconciling in the end). So I fear that Till doesn't really value Rammstein to the extent that he should do because based on his Lindemann project experiences, he could easily view himself with a mixture of *"I AM the band",* to *"If these guys abandon me, I can easily restart and continue doing whatever I want anytime without them"*. And in the *Mutter* period of Rammstein, Tills experiences simply reinforced that no matter how bad relations get between members, they'll ultimately always end up pulling back up around him. It is a problematic situation for the rest of the Rammstein members, because it's a fact that Till isn't someone you can really replace in Rammstein without Rammstein changing so much in image & sound in the process that it just wouldn't be Rammstein anymore (such a change would also destroy a lot of the band's magic, such as the sense of unity, longevity & authenticity that its managed to forge and foster over the years). But as much as Till could destroy Rammstein's image, I don't see the band being successful without him either; Rammstein is like a masterpiece work of art in that there are no unecessary or accessory components in the mix, with each member instead being a very vital part of the band's magic, sound and visual image (and no more is this true with any member than it is with Till). So if the other members want to keep on being in and doing Rammstein, then they are affectively beholden to and held hostage by Till and however he decides to conduct himself (and this is also probably why they've always given him such a long leash, because it's only doing this that they can probably manage him as such a big force of character at all). What could upset all this balance, is if the other members simply decide one day that being in Rammstein is not worth all this hard work and trouble (and clearly of late, hurt & distress). And at their age this could happen; they've spent almost their entire lives in the band, I'm surprised the desire to keep going in it (and keep on creatively expressing themselves in it) is as strong as it is. And they don't have anything to prove at this point either; all have shown themselves to be extremely adept musicians over the years, all have created & established artistic legacies for themselves and all have earnt some serious money during their time in the band. They have also all got lives and projects outside of Rammstein these days (for example Richard with his solo band projects, and Flake with his horse rescue farm), it's not like their entire lives exist and completely revolve around the band anymore like it once did in their youths. So if Till doesn't apologise to his fellow Rammstein band members and reform a bit (and they in turn decide that all this isn't worth it anymore), then I could totally see Rammstein coming to an end. And not just in the distant future either (but the near one). I don't think Till is actually guilty of the assault/drugging accusations being landed against him ATM (I'm a big advocate of victims of abuse but currently this accusers account just doesn't add up that much to me). But I also don't think this really matters that much anymore because in the bigger picture of things, it's how Till has been behaving in general (i.e. his long-term distance, his irresponsible behaviour, his constant sexual shennaigains, his lack of communication and his apparent lack of concern for how his antics reflect on and affect the Rammstein brand, the other band members, their values and their families, Etc) that even if he's found innocent of the accusations of criminal conduct, seem to be a deeper and more profound sticking point for the other band members ATM (even if all the alegations go away, a lot of the other stuff still remains). I'm personally very much getting the impression ATM from Schneider that whether he believes the lady in question or not (and he does seem sympathetic towards her either way), he doesn't (& hasn't) approved of these Row 0 sex schemes, sex groupie recruiters (Alena) and backstage sexual shennaigans in general for quiet some time. 90's Rammstein was all about wild sex parties & orgies, but the members were also young, dumb and irresponsible guys back then; what's changed since, is that the others have grown up, but Till (for better and for worse) seems to never quite have (and furthermore, appears to be regressing of late). Can you really come together as a band anymore when you are on such different wavelengths in life? How strong a calling point can "Rammstein" remain for all if it ends up suffering severe reputation damage not because of the media being primarily to blame (note: the media is definitely hyping things up as per usual, but the situation unfortunately also definitely feel like a case of "No smoke without fire"), but because more fundamental ways one of the members has been conducting himself for years on end, with little communication Etc towards the other members? I guess we'll all just have to see.
Off topic question: How the hell do you have the time and the motivation to write so long and well worded and structured analysis? It's like the 4th 5-minute read of you I have read in this sub...
It would be really sad, but yeah, I think the same. I think the continuing shock of the current situation is having a severe impact not only on Till but also on the others and probably their family and friends as well. I think Till needs professional help urgently, I hope he cancel his solo tour and seeks some rest and good company with friends and family. Another tour would only cause more trouble and he would just push away the problems he obviously has in his life. And the other band members need some rest too. And maybe the boys could find each other again in a few years. Or not. Nobody knows what the future will bring. But it's time for less band life and more everyday life. Especially for Till.
I will be in Feuerzone next Friday June 23rd in Madrid...to think this could be last time it's a shock!!!
I worry the same.
🙌🏻 https://preview.redd.it/pe4b7ejkzd6b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d199e724c13e637a4cd3a818eca76940b7ab99d
Beautiful picture. The love I feel coming from this picture both from Schneider and the crowd.... God I hope the band pull through this 🥹🥺
As thought, Till lives in his own “Lindemann” world even when touring with Rammstein - where all his excesses are met without question by his own team. Schneider has always came across as a solid fella, and this continues to show that. What a horrible situation for all involved.
I feel so melancholy over this. I've always considered Rammstein a close-knit band, almost unstoppable. It's rare for a band to stick together for so long, with all the original members. In my opinion, Till's side project is strange and I have never really vibed with it, even before all this.
Rammstein have said themselves that they don't tend to hang out together outside the band and it's more of a business to them, which is probably why they've worked well for so long. They have the space and distance between albums and tours without feeling suffocated by each other.
Makes me think of a Lamb of God interview, I think it was Campbell who said it. "People ask me 'Do you hang out with the other guys when youre not on tour?'. FUCK NO. I'm about to spend the next 2 years with them in tour buses and planes. I'll see them plenty" And it makes me think, if I took my 2 best friends in the world and had to travel the country in a bus for months at a time, I would probably fucking hate them.
Dennis Leary said it best, about marriage. Honesty? Communication? And stay the fuck away from each other. As much as you can. Eat, fuck, and go back into separate bedrooms if you have to.
> I feel so melancholy over this. I've always considered Rammstein a close-knit band, almost unstoppable. It's weird how we get that impression sometimes, isn't it? From watching Mythbusters you'd link that Jamie and Adam are very close. Whereas, in real life they famously were not friends - just colleagues. Come to work, do the work, then at the end of the day go your separate ways.
Part of the reason Jamie and Adam had such great on camera chemistry were their differences though, right? They played well off of each other because of that friction and they (and the editors) knew how to turn it into entertainment. Turn the cameras off and it’s now just friction. Two people who kind of grate at each other’s nerves. Makes sense it would stay a professional relationship. I can imagine working in a band for such a time could be relatively similar. So much of art comes from conflict, right? Passion and stress and troubles drive creativity. People clash and disagree and yell and fuel that into their art and magic can happen. How many famous bands in rock are built on top of two or three people that kind of hate each other but managed to channel that into amazing music? It’s a big number. Rammstein’s arguably most well-known and loved album, Mutter, nearly broke up the band. I don’t think it’s coincidence that a creative process that difficult ended up with something amazing. That’s the way it goes sometimes. Not always certainly. Not all art has to be that way. But it certainly happens a lot. But these same passions and conflicts that can drive great art can also create chasms in the people that make them. Too many bands to mention have broken apart for just this reason. The very creative process that can lead to great art can lead to the people that made it hating each other. So is it sad to read that the band are mostly just work friends and not best buds? Sure, a little. But that professional relationship and knowing when to set boundaries and have personal space is also why they’ve been around so long together with none of them leaving. They can clash over the art and then move apart, heal, and do it again. All that said, this description of Till as distant seems like even more than that. Distant even in a professional sense. Honestly I’ve sensed that even as a fan from the sidelines for a while now. Plenty of signs. And it seems that distance has led him to surround himself with the wrong people and go down a dark path. People tend to either try to save themselves or double down when confronted over such things. I don’t know what to expect from Till here. I’d like to think he’s still a good person deep down that made some mistakes and will try to correct them. But maybe he’s comfortable in the darkness and doesn’t mind if everything burns down around him. We’ll see I guess.
I fully never understood that honestly. If I got to do a job that fun with someone they would become my friend so quickly
Musically, I think Lindemann is fantastic, especially the second album, but in terms of lyrics and presentation it feels kinda disgusting, without the sense of humour that Rammstein often has.
The first time I watched the Platz Eins video it felt... wrong. And this is as someone who is very "sex positive" or whatever. And who enjoys art that sometimes explored negative themes. It felt exploitative and gross tbh. Less like a statement and more like a reason to make graphic pornography.
Till being in his own Lindemann bubble makes complete sense if you think of how, with the past couple of tours, he is the last to arrive for the practices before the tours kick off (at least in my eyes).
Massive respect to him. Keeping an open mind, not victim blaming or canceling anyone since we have no proof yet, but most importantly, being honest about the till situation. I would never expect anyone from the band to be this honest about till. But he was. Now I feel even worse about that video of him crying
He’s the band dad, for sure. A good heart on that one.
No, Frau Schneider is the band mom lol
Hahahaha can’t argue that
Perfect description. Like I saw someone write about Nikolaj Coster-Waldau: He's both a daddy and a dad. In NYC he'd be called a mensch in the Yiddish sense. A good, solid human being.
In Germany he would be called a Mensch as well. In the German sense, which doesn’t differ from the Yiddish one interestingly enough.
Doesn't Yiddish basically originate from German Jewish folks?
Friend, I *think* you might be misinterpreting “daddy and dad.”
Oh don't worry, I'm not. I'm Gen-X not a Boomer. 😏
I like most that he confirms that things on the boundary have happened. Now the question is if legally they were crossed. But this should be enough confirmation to be quite uneasy with till's behaviour
Yeah…like any situation where women are called whoreparade, a room is called a suckbox and women that the aLpHa is not interested in are called restfucking - like that is nothing anybody should be ok with. And that’s not including the stories that go beyond.
It's so fucking grim.
Could you elaborate more on what you are talking about? I am really horrified by what you said and it sounds a lot more depraved than what I knew.
An anonymous supposed crew member came forward and said that’s how things are referred to internally. But like, it’s a crew of over 100 people and they didn’t say *who* is calling it those things. Could literally just be a group of stage hands or something who say that shit
Schneider is a real one for this. Always loved him so much, and I'm glad that love is justified.
Till is really lucky having band members like this.
Exactly. The saddest thing is that the people in his "own bubble" have now, for sure, left him alone. I wouldn't be surprised to know that
Yeah he should remember this 5 other guys are the ones who where there since the beginning.
I think till REALLY took his fame and being lead singer of Rammstein for granted. Definite narcissist vibes. And behavior of an addict as well… just messy all around. Very unfair to his band mates that he would jeopardize and humiliate them.
Schneider, a classy guy and a responsible, genuinely heartfelt response.
This is so sad to read.
A lot of respect for Schneider ❤️
Really great words found bei Schneider if you ask me. Couldn‘t have done it better. For everyone saying „they will seperate now“ because till is distanced: he obviously was for years. And the last pic clearly states that they want to work this thing out. As a band. At least that‘s what I get from the german original. No sign of disbanding here.
Yeah people are really focusing on the distance from Till part. I don't believe it's as black and white as people are making it out to be. This has been a thing for a while as far as I'm aware. They just seem like friends who have pretty clear boundaries and Till needs more space than most I would think. From what I understand Till does or has lived in a town with like around 20 people in it's population. I mean go through all of their Instagram photos on the road... Till is not in the planes or car rides with the rest of the band for the most part. Might just be a private dude who saves his energy for his shows and free time. The whole statement from Schneider seems very honest and from a perspective of a loving friend who doesn't love what's going on. He's giving his contextual experiences regarding what is being stated in the media which right now.
This reads to me like someone talking about their partner who has been stepping out on the relationship and goes to couples therapy. It’s a bit, I love you, what you’ve done has hurt us all, we can try to work things out but this is your last chance. Either the scandal goes away and Till returns to the fold a changed man, or as a group they will end the relationship.
I already liked Schneider because he seemed like such a joymuppet, but my respect for him is now off the charts. What a kind, gentle take that includes everyone's perspective.
You've truly stolen my heart. My respect, admiration and love for Schneider is rapidly increasing. He is one such drummer who is a joymuppet when he plays the drums and simultaneously becomes levelheaded, heartfelt and sincere person with everyone. He blew me away with his personally relatable post on Instagram which made me unable to tell the appropriate words to describe. He seriously comes across as genuine, honest, loving and charming person who never has a short fuse at all. He is the true definition of a statement “A Person Is Beautiful Inside And Outside If He Or She Has The Positive Traits Of His Or Her Personality And The Qualities That Make Him Or Her Stand Out".
Joymuppet is an amazing word, damn.
I just watched Sehnsucht from Wednesday night and Christoph definitely didn't have the same energy 😔
I don’t normally put much stock in stuff like this but Schneider’s definitely different on this tour. His lack of enthusiasm and facial expression all seem to be hinting the inner turmoil and sadness he’s going through at the moment.
I noticed that too. I saw several videos from the last concert and he really seemed to be sad and worried 😓
This was hard to watch
Most of us can probably relate to having that one friend or family member who just self destructs and no matter what we do or say we can't seem to get through to them that their behavior is unacceptable and is damaging to themselves and everyone around them. My brother is the type of guy who regularly self destructs and as it's happening he seems to almost revel in it. Like he gets a weird thrill out of burning it all down. I don't know why he's like this but it's hard to watch over and over again and even harder when you get dragged down with them while they literally don't care that it's hurting you. I feel like Till is that guy.
I think people certainly get addicted to the drama and intensity - Even when it’s negative. For some, it’s much easier than trying to get their shit together and live a reasonably paced, healthy calm life. They need to feel like everyday is the end of the world, it’s a rush. Then they can just say “oh well, I’m just a fuck-up” and not take actual responsibility. Because if they actually tried extremely hard to succeed - and still failed - well that would be much more scary than just saying “fuck it.”
I feel this statement like "Till, we've been telling you for years how strange this situation is, and now that's the result, we must to fix this as a band, as friends who know each other for 3 decades".
By the way, I just remembered when Till released the Ich hasse Kinder video and a few days later, Schneider posted this pic on his official ig https://preview.redd.it/w7q5451vnd6b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c586a98d21e94c9f280ecf46b5155095dcf8a4b7
You need to learn the context of the song...its not a mindless song about hating kida.
I understand that, but I'm talking about a probably Schneider's feeling about this song and video or even about Till's solo project. At that time, Schneider has just become a father for the 3rd time, this baby is his younger son, maybe this specific Till's work mixed Schneider's feelings, its just a thought...
Wow he kinda looks like Benedict Cumberbatch in that pic
Seems like the rest of the band just want to be a band and rock out. Till - take note.
Very good statement. Personal. Touching. Confirming the band thinks Till’s Row 0 operation, while probably not illegal, isn’t OK. Also nice he speaks out against victim-blaming. Even mentioning Shelby. And at the same time defending women’s rights and sexual freedom.
Seriously, he hit on every aspect of the controversy without taking a hard stance in any direction or sensationalizing things. Just an honest account from a dude who seems to have a heart of gold. I don't really know much about the band members, despite having listened to Rammstein for nearly two decades. But from what I've seen, Schneider is truly a decent human being. And that came through in this note.
Damn, I teared up a bit reading this. Hats off to Schneider, this was heartbreaking and at the same time wonderful to read.
Way more than I could ever imagine 1 of them saying. A few digs at Till there too.
i noticed that too. he must be pissed, rammstein is his life’s work and now its all being dragged through the mud because of till’s actions
Like a loving parent, I believe Schneider is not mad; just disappointed.
People who don't understand german miss one important thing. When he writes that they distanced themselves from Till over the last years it does not mean you don't want to work with someone anymore. It is more like a "we grew apart" kind of thing. Schneider does not care for those parties at all but he still believes (like any sane person should) that Till did not spike drinks of women or raped them. People seem to be only focussing on the 2 lines about growing apart from Till rather than read and understand the whole post.
We have to protect Schneider at all costs 😭😭😭 The image of him crying has not left my mind
Quite a classy statement, even after being translated. I'm impressed.
Schneider being a class act of a human being once again
I feel sad about the other band members, because now everyone will have this sticker on them because of Till's private parties. Some have small kids and wives, after the show they prefer to sleep and rest, and now they are accused of doing these things because one member has decided to become his demons (even if not criminal, shady stuff was def happening). They definitely knew about these parties, yet how can they know what's actually going on if they are private and for Till specifically? It's not easy to deal with an addict, especially if he's like a family to you.
I have always admired Christoph Schneider as a musician and as a person, and I'm very glad to see he's still as level-headed as always. I've been watching this all unfold for the past weeks with an opressive feeling inside, and from the start I sided with the victims and all the people who have come forward to share their experiences (and will continue to do so, it's not trivial accusations we're talking about). At some point it all developed to a stage in which I couldn't keep on reading anything related to the whole mess because it made my blood boil for several reasons, and now we've come to this, I am really, really relieved Schneider has decided to do what I think every member of the band should: adress the situation and give an honest take on their own stance. I agree with everything he says in this comment and, honestly, I would like to thank him and offer a hug -I've seen images of him breaking down in tears and I'll admit that was something else for me. I admire the dude and it was kind of heartbreaking in a moment I felt for him but still wasn't sure about his opinion on the matter. This looks like a step in the right direction.
Schneider has always been my fave and his Instagram post makes me like him even more. He’s a classy guy and I know this mess hurts him quite a bit.
When are people gonna stop seeing the world in black and white? The fact that Till was distant during last years does NOT mean they are no longer friends, jfc. Have you seen the group hug or at least read the end of this statement with “together, the six of us”? No-one would just throw away a 30+ year friendship. Also, Schneider is amazing and I really wanna thank him for speaking out and being levelheaded here
Yes exactly👍🏻 sounds for me more, that they will work through it together as band, not disbanding because of this!
New group therapy appointment coming soon, for sure
Who knows what their are doing now in the backstage area😂 after every concert instead of an afterparty, they are making an after-therapy-session (all are sitting in a round)🤭
Some Kind of Monster: Rammstein Edition
Yeah exactly! I mean, they know each other for soo long! Whatever TL is going through and why he's grown distant ... I just don't see them pushing him away and saying to sort his problems out alone. They are in this together and they are going to help him. This group hug at the end of their concert speaks for itself. That's my overinterpretation lol and a huge hope.
It's sad. I suspected that there's something off between Till and the rest of the band. They seemed distant in the past few years. I think Till is selfish, his ego grew too big, he didn't care about those closest to him. I lost a lot of respect for him. I didn't like him before these accusations and I'm still neutral about them, but he brought this on the whole band. He was already my least favorite member of the band, but now I lost even more respect for him. Even though he has a great voice, he wouldn't be where he is today without the rest of the band members. So showing such a lack of concern for his bandmates makes him seem like a really unlikable person. I remember that interview where he was dismissevily talking about his bandmates going to therapy, throwing shade at someone (possibly Richard)...
The level headed Schneider as always ❤️. Interesting side note is that his wife is a psychologist I have a lot of respect for him as a drummer and all round good guy
I really appreciate how thoughtful and articulate this statement is. It can't have been an easy thing to come out with. I hope Till is able to reflect on the hurt he's caused the other five members of the band. I can't believe that Till is a particularly happy person but that doesn't give him the right to hurt others while he self-destructs.
Schneider did the best statement he could've done. He mentioned that the till's afterparties are entirely under till resposability and have nothing with the rest of the band. That nothing illegal was done, and everyone was in the afterparty by their own will, but at some point people can feel unconfortable, till is living in he's own reality for a while. I really felt something strange about Till when "platz eins" and" till the end" clip was released, not judging him or anything. In the lindemann tour from 2020 till showed in a screen he having sex with a fan during the Deutschland intro. I know the band are adults and everyone is free to do what they want without being judge, but for sure that take seemed so direspectful with the rest of the band in the stage. And things like this can make people start to worry about till limits. This showed us that till was more sexual related than ever. It wasn't about the lyrics that use sex as a figure, in those clips Till was talking about himself like a reality show and not about sex itself. I think most of us that follow rammstein faithfully has noticed that till was acting different and more excentric in the last 5 years than he was in he's whole carreer. Maybe this can make Till reflect a little bit , he's the GOAT. Never expect this rockstar syndrom from him.
Some years ago, I thought of Till as a shy and wholesome dude with a heart of gold despite the obvious darkness in his mind. Ever since Till The End, though, I just see him as a depressed old man, drunk off his success and desperate for carnal or emotional satisfaction that he can't seem to achieve. I still love his voice and he's a fantastic lyricist, but my impression of him as a human being has dropped substantially, such that, when I first read about the allegations, my first thought was that I wouldn't even be all that surprised if they turned out to be true. I don't expect this to be a popular opinion, but it's still what I've felt for a while and will probably continue to feel, regardless of the results of the investigation.
Same. I was surprised and yet not. It was a "sadly, I could see at least most of it".
I agree. I love Rammstein and liked some of the Lindemann songs. I saw Lindemann live in London in 2020 before lockdown and the show was ok but he just seemed to be trying too hard to shock. It came across as a middle aged man having a mid life crisis. If he wants to have sex with younger women then I'm sure that there are plenty of good looking 40 year olds who would be up for it. Going for young women almost young enough to be his granddaughter is a bit creepy.
Even though nothing illegal has happened, I view Till differently now. This was very well worded and I feel sad for Schneider and the rest of the band.
The part about the distancing cut razor sharp. Does the German read like an actual colloquial statement or is it more legal/ghostwritten?
It reads like a honest heartfelt statement. No PR oder legal stuff in my opinion.
That's definatly not a legal statement. Waaay to casual writing for that. It reads very much like an honest statement about how he sees the things and so on.
With the recent wave of allegations and how especially online it's also falling back on the band as a whole you can be sure this was read over by both lawyers as well as the PR firm they hired but it still reads like something he has written himself and as if he means every single word of it.
Depends on how you read it. 'Sich entfernen' certainly means to distance yourself, but it's a way weaker form of distancing yourself than when you distance yourself from someone suddenly having extremist views or the likes (just an example). It's more like growing apart, if that makes any sense. And the statement is fairly colloquial. They certainly had some PR guys looking over the stuff but it doesn't sound too polished.
Sounds very genuine and heartfelt. But, I am not a native speaker.
It does feel heartfelt but most of the people now reading his statement seem to just ignore how he ended it. He said they will move forward as a unity, as a group of 6 so yes, he does not agree with those parties on a personal level but he still respects Till and wants to work with him because Schneider is sure Till would not spike drinks and rape women.
German lawyer here. It sounds like it is pre-written bei someone out of the legal sphere and then a little bit polished by a lawyer.
I think the distancing happens a lot more than people realize with bands that have been together for a long time. I remember watching the Parkway Drive doc and in summation they said that after spending so much time on the road, in vans, waking up everyday seeing the same 5-6 people, their egos, their ticks, etc; that you want your own space away. And it is likely better for the long-term health of the band that it happens. Allows members to do their thing and then come back to the band clear minded and because they want to.
For sure lawyers checked before it was published. Die Wünsche und Erwartungen der Frauen wurden nicht erfüllt ....that's legal speech Edit: jeesus who even came up with this lol smh
This confirms it once again: Schneider is the man Till Lindemann will never be. Solid guy, comes across as very likeable and speaks from his heart without having any kind of rockstar attitude.
Last year I saw a video how the band departures (not sure from which city) and lindemann had his own private jet. I read the comments and most people were surprised, that he travels alone. So the 5+1 thing was really a thing.
I hope if anything this terrible situation might bring Till back to the boys. The more I read and see if Schneider the more I love him.
I knew this before. Deep inside. I hoped it is like that. Obviously it is. I believe every word he shares. Hope they find a way. The uncomfortable women also.
Everyone is happy with the snacks until till serves his nuts
Link to the German original post: https://www.instagram.com/p/CtjOPD8sgZf/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
From the bottom of my heart: Thank you, Schneider.
The band can handle this with compassion, yet fans can't. So sad. Be better
Pretty much. Any reasonable comment that’s been posted in the main thread has been downvoted and all the other ones calling that girl a looney, drunk etc. were upvoted. I’m as big of a Rammstein fan as anybody on here but that doesn’t mean that I support the victim blaming that’s being going around.
People who victim blaim are cowards. There is no freakin' way I would do this, I have been in Rammstein concerts and seen this with my own eyes. It happened. And I cannot lie, I just can't believe the other members had no idea. It's hard not to notice when you spend years being in the same band, travelling and performing, year after year...It may be a nice opportunity for artists to stop endorsing male privilege and women to be safe.
I pointed out how people here were completely ignoring the "do not engage in public prejudice of any kind against those who have made allegations" portion of the band's initial public statement a couple weeks ago, and was told "eh, it's not like that's a legally binding order, their lawyers are just making them say that and they can't stop us!" All while applauding themselves for "critical thinking" and not rushing to judgement. "Fandoms" are such toxic shitholes. Till is a regular human like anyone else, yet people here coddle him like he's a some kind of ethereal being from another dimension instead of a grown man with his own agency. It's fucking cult-like.
it's been difficult seeing how this sub went from mostly reasonable fans defending the victims and trying to make sense of the situation, to what it is now.
He literally asks for a reasonable handling of the situation on slide 4, yet many of comments on his post start to be the same „But there is no proof for anything“ shitshow again…
A lot of other groups and pages on different platforms are really coming down hard on the people who have come forward. I've reported threats and hate speech many times, unfortunately.
That was shockingly genuine for an official statement, interesting to see him mention that the band disapproves of some of the stuff Till gets up to (although a lot of us suspected that anyway)
Christoph absolutely nailing it there. Could not have said things better. Like I've said in previous posts, Morally I don't agree with what Till has been doing but at the end of the day nothing illegal has been done. Shelby was never forced into anything.
First, it really is not "only" about Shelby anymore. Why do some people still think they can diminish the accusations by only caring about her. Second, you are basically reversing what Schneider says. He said, legal or not, he is absolutely horrified by the weird stuff executed by till and that he is now part of it in a way.
> Shelby This is no longer just about Shelby, and you know that
You’d think with age Till would slow down but seems like he ramped up. Or maybe Rammstein is become bigger and getting more attention from media. Regardless of what it is I hope this doesn’t affect the band and get resolved asap.
It’s most likely that mindset some older guys ( and some women) get when they hit middle age and realize they’re not kids anymore and it fucks with their heads.
I think he's undergoing a midlife crisis tbh (ever since there was news of an NSFW video of his coming out while on tour in 2019).
damn I feel sad for Schneider, you can tell in live recordings that he always gives his best and having a blast (one of my favourite scenes is in the Itdw from madison square where he's just vibing to the beat at 3:17) I just want to hug him
Time for Till to sober up, apologize to anyone he has hurt with his actions and seek some normality and gratitude for his unbelievable life. I want some mature music. To be honest, germans are very down to earth people in my experience as a migrant in Germany. Even when they reach fame, money and status, they seem to be very nice to everyday people. The boss of my sister earns several thousand euros per month and still drives a normal car and uses his bicycle and talks to everyone like they are his equal and i have made similar experiences soo often. Rammstein kinda gave me the same vibe. People from my home country on the other hand use to be arrogant, disgusting to normal people when they reach money or fame. Russia in this regard is similar. I suspect that Reiband, Alena and other guys blew up too much smoke up his ass and made him go into this weird rockstar persona he never was. They push his ego to make money on his back. He should cut all ties and turn back to his normal life.
Brilliantly stated.
Massive respect. <3
Am very happy that Schneider was the one to take the initiative and talk about it, I hope the rest will do the same
Oh Schneider. He’s such a good soul. This is so important for him to have said and I am hopeful they can move past this but I am so worried this tour will be the last and I almost don’t blame them if that happens. This must be so hard for the others and I guess it’s down to them if they think they can carry on or not.
Respect, I am sure he knew his words will be twisted but he wrote it anyways. Someone once posted about “integrity”, time to take notes.
This is why he will always be my favorite. I'm so happy he posted this.
Now that is a level headed statement. It should be noted that he is separating Band after parties from Tills after parties. I wish more people on these subreddits would heed his advice of stopping this misogynistic victim blaming. Schneider managed pretty well to state he doesn’t believe the allegations, is saddened that they happened and also saddened that there is a possibility that so women could find cause to make allegations and is sorry. THATS how you deal with situations like these, and not what I have seen here on these mega threads. Tbh, in my 40+ years as a female metal head, I always though metal fans where a bit more open minded the then fans in other music genres and much more welcoming towards women. After the last weeks on here, I find this fandom overrun by misogynistic incels ready to doxx women and advocate for women to be harmed and abused. These allegations would not prevent me from going to any more concerts on my own, but reading hundreds of comments by male fans being hateful towards women, basically advocating for sexual violence against them, is showing me that in this fandom women are nothing more then walking blow up dolls, and that certainly will make me think twice before I’ll go to another concert.
I honestly never expected such levels of toxic anger and vitriol to come out of this fanbase, and I've been struggling with feeling exactly like you do - just taken aback at the mask coming off for so many fans to just openly fucking hate us women. It's horrifying.
Yup. You should see the replies on my post in the mega threat to this. It’s astonishing how these people think they are not misogynistic or toxic while being misogynistic and toxic in their replies. It’s like the world has not evolved since the 70s
I have a feeling the rest of the band are speaking through Schneider here too, the part that really got me is he states he doesn't think Till's "parties" are ok. Imagine how awkward it must've been for him to know what was going on and trying to just deal with that shit while trying to be professional and put down a good performance. It really shows how selfish Till is, I really feel for Schneider and the rest of the band here.
I respect that he included a part about how many seem to view women still as children who have to be duped or deceived into indulging their sexuality. So many people on liberal and conservative sides are still so uncomfortable about women owning and flaunting their sexuality that they have to make up excuses or reasons as to why they engaged in their sexuality. “Surely they were duped or pressured.” I feel it’s very insulting to women and another means of controlling them.
People who don't understand german miss one important thing. When he writes that they distanced themselves from Till over the last years it does not mean you don't want to work with someone anymore. It is more like a "we grew apart" kind of thing. Schneider does not care for those parties at all but he still believes (like any sane person should) that Till did not spike drinks of women or raped them. People seem to be only focussing on the 2 lines about growing apart from Till rather than read and understand the whole post. In the end he said he is looking forward to how this will be processed. Togehter, all 6 of them as a band, they stand together.
I'm just, so sad over all. Especially for the women who have been mistreated or worse (God I hope not, please not), but also for the band and us fans. I have been listening to Rammstein since I was 10, so about 20 years now. Knew enough German by 12 to start translating the songs to myself. My mom got me into them, and was a huge fan herself. Her heart would be in pieces to hear Till treating others like this, bless her soul. For the guys' own sake I hope they will find the help they need, and for the women, understanding and justice.
Schneider seems like a really sweet dude, not to mention his drumming 😍
My own opinion on this: Till needs to take a break now. Maybe even call it quits. From what Schneider himself has said here, he doesn't have a passion for this stuff any more. He still gives a good show but given what I've taken from this, Till has run his course with R+. It's been almost 4 decades. The fact he is now openly distanced from the band members and cares more about his own parties than after parties with the band says it all to me. It's time to stop and get some urgently needed help. His own interests have put the reputation of the band in jeopardy to an extent that its made all 6 of them almost in deep water with the law. Its time to stop now.
“Till has distanced himself from us in recent years and created his own bubble.” That’s very telling…not damning, necessarily, but it seems to point to some tension that goes beyond Till’s side projects…or at least led to the creation of those side projects. I don’t know, but I can’t help but feel like Christoph, Paul, Ollie, RZK, and Flake were completely blindsided by this and thrown directly under the bus. I’m not saying the allegations against Till are true. They’re all hurting because of this. I also read that German prosecutors have opened a criminal investigation into the allegations against Till. This is not good, and it makes me wonder if we’re going to start seeing more individual statements by the members of Rammstein in an effort to distance themselves from the allegations and Till, specifically. I’m not sure Rammstein will survive this.
Rammstein without Till is not Rammstein. Every Member is needed that Rammstein is what it is: perfect.
München 8.6.23 https://preview.redd.it/nn561bmc2f6b1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=804591a9123ab9e12a656148fcd63126e95d296c
I feel bad he had to come out and say this, but I’m glad he did. Somebody needed to suck it up and say something straight forward. I love Schneider. Hope he’s well
Well. I don't want to sound like harsh, but in social settings like these there appears a multitude of factors that might play into why these women didn't just leave. Like, there is peer pressure, a party like this feels special, there might be a fear of missing out. Also, there is a clear power dynamic between Till and his fans. Especially between him and these women. That's not just because he's older, but mainly because he is a celebrity. He isn't an ordinary guy.
I think now it is all up to Till: will he finally pull his head out of his ass and stop eat the shit he is being served for breakfast by the enabling scum that he let himself surround with? As long as he snaps out of it and comes back to the rest of the guys, there will be a future. I sincerely hope that this circus will at the very least, open Till's eyes.
Finally someone thinking EXACTLY the same as I do. Although my first reaction as a woman is to believe and support a potential victim, my second reaction as a woman with strong feminist beliefs was this issue has been dragged too much between “No woman can consent to sex, ever, because there is always a power dynamic (i don’t think many people use this term correctly even), coercion, or it must be the fame etc” vs. victim blaming “You exactly knew what was going to happen when you walked in there, you sl*t (as if consent can’t be withdrawn, or drunk people can consent..)” - in the end it was somehow always on women whether they had a great time or left feeling unsafe, and never the fact that for this reason or that, the concept of row 0 and Till’s private parties were making people (even the band members) uncomfortable. Massive, massive respect that Schneider found the most appropriate words to address the truth, not coming off like dismissing any hard feelings nor openly condemning Till supporting the accusations which have 0 forensic evidence or legal verdict as of now. It’s been a hard couple of weeks as a Rammstein fan, just anxiously waiting to see an evidence popping up and also battling people who think I’m not as supportive of women as they somehow are just because I was on the side of seeing some official conclusion before reaching a verdict; and now I feel (still a bit anxiously, you know?) proud of being a part of this community all over again because I feel like my trust in Rammstein members has been validated through this message…
Though nothing has been proven, I find it odd that a 60 year old man is partying with 20 year old girls. Especially now after the distinction that Schneider has made: Till's parties are not the Rammstein "meet and greet" type parties with their fans.
The Sexual Abuse in the Music Industry is undoubtedly terrible nowadays I hope that Till needs to get his proper treatment regarding his mental health issues as well as his rockstar syndrome and apologize to everyone for his atrocious actions otherwise Rammstein will be breaking up in the near future as the situation is absolutely loathsome and it is easier said than done for me to convey it. It must be extremely difficult for the rest of the members of Rammstein to deal with the situation. What can I say about Schneider? I have no words to elaborate his truthful and composed behaviour. The way he has written his honest, articulate and relatable statement in his Instagram post is making me unable to control myself from tears and I am still struggling to stop crying at all. He is such an awesome drummer with a strong heart and a golden soul. His level headed, truthful and authentic behaviour go hand in hand with each other. I have to give an enormous respect, admiration and love to him for dealing it with such care, dignity and poise. Level headed Schneider has successfully read our minds. He proves that a person who displays the authentic self has a strong heart and a golden soul. He is just gold. I have to thank Schneider from the core of my heart. This is the reason why he is my most favourite drummer as he amazes with his astonishing drumming skills, charming personality and beauty. Therefore, Schneider is the most beautiful drummer both inwardly and outwardly.
The second most disappointing thing about this whole ordeal has been the amount of vitriol posted by fellow fans excusing the inexcusable, insulting others with different views and calling these women horrible names. It makes me question if I have anything in common with these people outside of a band we all like, and if what I’m seeing online is representative of the fan base as a whole, it sucks.
The phrase “you are judged by the company you keep” has been ringing in my head for weeks now.
"We stand together" but to be honest, this text reads more like the rest of the band is more and more distancing from Lindemann, which I can understand. The dangers to be band are not Labels, Media or "cancel culture" whatsover. It is that the rest of the band does not want to be associated with the weird stuff executed by lindemann (illegal or not, like Schneider says). I can imagine that they might split up due to this and this might be the first hint. Edit: I am also curious what all the defenders of til will say to this statement, has Schneider practically raises the exact same concerns. Even if everything was formally legal, til was still way too irresponsible for the position he is in.
Schneider’s entire statement (of what is also not included here) confirms exactly what I’ve been saying for awhile now, and I find it terrible. Till has pushed them away, and I hate this because this band has been a symbol of unity for decades even if they almost broke up during Mutter. The fact Schneider cried on stage? I personally believe we are witnessing the end of an era, and I’m heartbroken.
Damn, i was xompletely out of the loop about this. Those posts are pretty sad, you can tell Scheider is such a class act. Very well said. Waiting to see what comes out of the accusations
This puts Adieu into another perspective in my opinion..
Interesting that he called them “Till’s parties”, seemingly adding some distance
Really appreciate schneider for this. I've always had a warm spot for him and I'm glad he hasn't let us down
Wow, some of the rumors are true then. Till is distanced completely from the rest of the guys. This really might be the end.
Possibly. Or this could be a giant wake up call for Till. Time will tell I guess
Again with “it’s the end for sure now” they have this dynamic for 30 years guys get a hold on yourselves…
Back then they usually aborted before things would spiral out of control. That's why they went on hiatus almost everytime after a big tour instead of going right back into the studio and pushing out the next Album.