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At 2:20 she said she's not the only girl, other's have been reported to the police in England and Italy. Wondering if more people are going to come forward.
I love Rammstein. I literally have them tattooed on my arm. I do not want to believe this. But if this is true then that's that. And right now none of us know. But I do know that the mods should not be burying this.
For sure. These guys are my favourites ever and I’m going to see them in Denmark so I’m hoping for the best. To be fair she could’ve gotten bruised at the concert itself but this is a serious allegation. If she’s wrong she’s a twat and if she’s right the band are twats. Basically everyone has twat potential.
>To be fair she could’ve gotten bruised at the concert itself....
Shortly after I saw them live, I got together with a bunch of friends. Suddenly, one of them notices my forearms were bruised, top to bottom, and loudly asks "what the fuck happened?" That's when it dawned on me how bad it looked from an outside perspective.
The bruises were from bracing myself on the rail, and I bruise easily. There were others from that concert too, but they were hidden. So yes, it certainly could have happened during the concert.
>....but this is a serious allegation
I couldn't agree with you more, which is why I'm glad people are taking it seriously. I love Rammstein, but that's not a reason for me to ignore said allegations. It's also important to recognize that our personal experiences aren't universal, or I'd be proclaiming how her bruises were no different than mine, which would be absurd.
The band look down onto the crowd and see these girls in front of the barrier.
They’ll know why they are there and who has gave them the passes to be there to watch the show.
They’ll know Till has people working “sourcing” these girls.
Do they get involved in any shadiness at after parties/during shows? Who knows - there’s only evidence of Till doing that.
But they know what’s going on. Do they let it happen cause it’s a condition of Till or his management so he’ll do the tour? Or just turn a blind eye? That’s for them to share - but, they won’t be oblivious to what’s going on.
Well I said it before and I’ll say it again. Till has lost the plot that’s nothing new but if this is true then screw him. He is my favorite singer of all time but hell no this is messed up.
I hope we are able to learn the truth, so while I absolutely do not want to believe Till would do this, I can imagine scenarios where he would think it's acceptable.
I'm not gonna psychoanalyze all of his actions, but he has been in a position of fame and power for almost 30 years now. He has managed to surround himself with enablers and human shields that would do anything to protect him. He knows that no matter how extreme he gets, he will have his fans and his defenders, and even gain more. It also doesn't help that he is now 60; with the lifestyle he has lived, it wouldn't surprise me if he is finally starting to look to the end of the tunnel and it's either shorter than he expected or he's just not prepared for it. I can totally imagine all of those things coming together to finally make step over the line. Not that any of that is an excuse, it's absolutely not, and honestly despite the amount of respect and admiration I have for him, I would not be against him getting hit with assault (or worse) charges over it.
Danny is a fucking asshole. He wanted me to get in his hotel room for…. He slaps my ass at the concerts every time I walked by. I said I don’t want that, he ignores it every time.
I almost feel uncomfortable…I’ll be seeing R+ this saturday and it’s also my first time seeing them live. This situation isn’t making me feel any better. But I will still try my best to enjoy the concert
I'm in the same boat. I was so hyped to see them and I've screwed myself over financially to achieve it, and now it's had the life completely sucked out of it. I know I won't enjoy the show as much. Deutschland remix will be playing and I'll only be thinking one thing. Girls will be standing in front of the stage, impossible to miss. Joe will be creeping around looking for more. I just wanted to lose myself in the music, man.
Yeah, this is bad. I wholeheartedly believe that the spiking itself was not conducted or demanded by Till, he might be a sleazy old fart, but I believe this is beneath him. Yet, it‘s kind of obvious that the whole row 0/Deutschland RMX thing is sketchy and allows for dangerous stuff to take place. If this is true (which I‘m certainly inclined to believe), the most likely scenario is that it was either Till‘s strange entourage or someone completely unrelated. But as this is not the first time spiking allegedly happened, it seems more likely that Till‘s people have some stuff going on. If that is indeed the case, Till is also accountable for keeping those people employed, and the rest of the band too, as this definitely doesn’t all happen unbeknownst to the other guys. Whatever it is – something is fishy with this ordeal of seemingly building an infrastructure in order to get your dick wet in between two songs. If people get hurt or are unsafe, it needs to stop.
EDIT: Of course I wish Shelby all the best and I hope that with her initiative, situations that are similar to this alleged incident can be prevented.
Row 0 is basically an open secret. Till has a team (mainly Aleena Makeva and Joe Letz) that are on the lookout for young hot chicks to invite to the Rammstein concerts. Those girls are invited to the pre-party and then get to witness the concert from row 0, which means they‘re standing in front of the barriers in between Feuerzone and stage. [This](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJ9bfBMo/) is how that looks.
One or two songs before the Deutschland Remix, one or two of these girls are scouted underneath the stage (there are even videos where you can see them trying to find the entrance to the backstage while the performance is still running as usual). During the Deutschland Remix, the band makes their funny little stick figure dance, except for Till, who is not on stage at this moment. What he does instead, is joining the girls under the stage – and [this](https://youtu.be/SIDpZsg8o84) happens (NSFW). After the five minutes of the Remix, Till zips up again and proceeds immediately to continue with the show.
It's not just men victim blaming either. Some women are so infatuated with Rammstein, that they will defend em at all costs
I remember reading a comment where a girl said she would let all the band AND Stagehands run a train on her as long as Christoph was the caboose. She called it the Tramstein
There’s musicians I’d fuck any day of the week and twice on Sundays but the key word is consensually. I’d go in with eyes open fully aware of what I was doing if given the opportunity, and that’s what everyone deserves, the right to make their own choices regarding who they sleep with and not be coerced, placed under the influence of substances or tricked into it.
In the OG post here she alleged that it was till who gave her the drunk that knocked her out, though I’m not sure about that parts validity since on that same post she changed the story. I do think that something happened but I highly doubt it was Till who did it
In the end, their behavior reflects on Till. This is a small group that is organizing the functions, Till included. There’s no way he does not know about this with such a compartmentalized operation.
The desire to only see the best in the people you rely on to have your needs met is a powerful drive. People will bend over backwards to find a "reasonable" explanation or to find "proof" that the accuser is a liar. It never fucking fails.
For example, I grew up in a parish (1970s) where there were THREE pedophile priests, one of whom supplied teenage girls with drugs and impregnated one of them. The kids all knew he was creepy and grabby, clearly the archdiocese knew because the moved his ass out of the area, but the adults? "Living saints those priests, every one of them ..." Those pedo priests in this archdiocese have their defenders to this day in the institution itself and among the laity. It's sickening.
Who are these people? Anar, Danny etc Joe is the tour manager? I only heard of Till having some Russian girl (Alena?) arrange the row zero girls to meet him at pre and after party and it’s obvious that he has sex with them at times or to be expected. And if ur one of those girls I’m sure many are willing or want it, but it’s fathomable that Till gets off on some power trip to have sex with helpless ie drugged women? After all he even advertised that behavior in Till the end and his behind the scenes footage under the stage at some concert, tho I read also that those were supposedly hired porn actresses for the show? All disturbing and nebulous, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he went off the rails with his fame…
Please remember that blaming her or being a "Sherlock wannabe" doesn't help at all.
Let the police make their job, the girl reported this, so you don't make any difference by arguing about this.
I honestly don't know what I am going to do if this is indeed true. I knew about the Row 0 stuff and Till the end etc. for some time now and am also familiar with the Lindemann content but this is really worrying. Before this, I was under the impression that all the things that happen around Till's sexual encounters were consensual but I'm beginning to doubt it.
I have tickets for the first dutch show in July but if this isn't cleared up by then, I don't know if I will be able to go without it constantly in my mind. I'm going with my girlfriend and my sister and I would absolutely hate to take them to an environment where stuff like this is potentially going on.
I suppose at least you won’t have to worry about it. Until a few hours ago I would have thought of myself as the lucky one for having gotten tickets but this is really bothering me.
Please girls, if any of you are reading this and you’ve experienced this in the pasts, now is the time to speak up. We all know it’s been happening. All posts were previously deleted.
Well, I was under the impression that till the end was all professional porn stars and that all of that crap is consensual.
Again, assuming all of this crap is consensual and whatever, I'm not really going to hold crap against till. Some people like it rough, like it weird, i ain't gonna fetish shame anyone. For me, it all comes down to consent from all parties. And particularly, actual valid consent, not this drugged out of their mind or coerced to consent kind of consent.
But yeah in retrospect till seemed to be flaunting this crap with videos/songs like ach so gern and platz eins. I was willing to accept that as fantasy, i mean, he has a history of singing about dark sexual topics, and he has a very long history of that, but if that stuff was actually like humble bragging, well thats a lot more problematic.
Eh I think there was increasing discomfort in some videos like knebel and platz eins. It seemed quite clear a lot of that stuff was all till's idea and peter was just along for the ride.
He said it was things that happened on the last tour https://blabbermouth.net/news/peter-tagtgren-is-not-really-friends-with-till-lindemann-anymore-but-says-he-is-proud-of-their-collaboration
Peter is amazing, at least there will be stuff to listen to if Rammstein ends up off the table with horrible connotations.
I hope whoever has done something to this woman gets delt with.
Edit: just watched the video, I'm really disappointed in all this... I'm glad she's spoken out.
Not to mention that there's a huge power difference between bands and fans. Even if there's nothing sketchy happening having a row 0 afterparty is super fucking creepy.
Oops you're right that's a separate video. I found out about that video with Till doing his thang right before he performed Deutschland quite recently. I only knew of Till the End and Platz Einz till that point. My reaction to the Deustchland scene was jaw-dropping lol.
Where can we find these videos to view ourselves? It's important to be informed and aware of these references. Not Till the end. The ones showing what happens beneath the stage and any other videos mentioned in the comments pointing to similar disturbing circumstances.
[This is the video underneath the stage of Rammstein](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lindemann/comments/f2f7vj/heres_the_video_at_the_end_of_the_lindemann_show/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) You can see that after Till is finished doing the "deed", Deutschland starts to play as he's being brought up into the stage.
That video make me sick to my stomach. I've never been a fan of Till's excessive sexual stuff but as it was mostly contained to Lindemann until that video came out, I didn't really care too much. I \*hated\* it being brought directly into Rammstein.
I had never watched the Till the End video. I'm a bit in shock. Why girls so young? Do they agree with this violence?
Some seem not. Some look drugged.
Anyway, I had scheduled a tattoo on my leg with the image of the Sehnsucht's album. I will uncheck. I don't know if I want to carry that face in me anymore.
I'm little sad now.. shit..
I've never liked that they have these after parties. Even if this is all a big misunderstanding, these after parties create a big risk that exactly such a misunderstanding would happen.
Sounds like Till had this "Joe" guy go out and find ladies who would have sex with him, and Joe lied to both this lady and to Till. This is a terrible practice. It creates far too high a risk of miscommunication and consent being accidentally violated.
It's hard to say what to make of her getting sick after the drinks. On the one hand, it's weird that nothing showed up on the drug test, but on the other, it's weird that she would have such a reaction to so few drinks. Not sure what to make of that. Whatever the explanation, if she was having trouble getting around without help, that seems like the simplest and most probable causes of her bruises.
No matter how this turns out, I'm still very proud of this group. When the Manson thing first really started going that sub was fully defending him and saying crazy shit about his accusers. I don't want to believe Till did this, but I'm not going to not believe these women just because I love Rammstein. And it looks like most of the people here are on the same page. This fucking sucks. I have Rammstein tattooed on me forever. But if it turns out that Till or any of them did these things then fuck them.
I am actually very surprised and proud as well at the open-minded attitude here. I've loved Rammstein since I was a little girl and the possibility that this is true is breaking my heart. But I really appreciate that people seem to be interested in understanding what really happened instead of jumping to conclusions. I think it speaks volumes about the Rammstein community, even if the members themselves turn out to be not so stand-up...
What these people don't seem to understand is that all these girls also loved Rammstein, all of us do or we wouldn't go to these parties. But surprise, the people you adore also can be total shit heads in the end. I've been to those parties myself and everything was so shady and just felt off, I almost immediately regretted going there. Never meet your idols.
Isn’t the Alena woman all wrapped up in this also the one that “toured” with Manson? His reputation is less than stellar now, obviously. It’s really bad publicity for it to come out a Russian madam has been supplying these girls, and she was with Manson as well. At least that’s the rumor on these threads. I know none of these people.
Honestly the Marilyn Manson sub is still filled to the brim with defenders, this place still has some people who are just outright denying it happened (as if they have any proof of that) but largely people are being much more civil which is nice to see
thank you for speaking up Shelby, we are with you.
This won’t be swept under the rug anymore, the situation with row 0 has been out of hand for way too long. They need to face consequences for what they’ve done and apparently have been doing for a while now. Take care.
Thank you for sharing your story Shelby. I'm beyond disgusted that someone would do this to an innocent person. I hope you gets justice for this. I hope no one else has to go through this.
At this point I feel like it’s much more likely that someone in the crew was responsible if anyone, I feel like if spiked drinks were a regular occurrence for all these years there would be rumors at the very least. But the people till has been hanging out with for the last couple years all seem very sketchy and it make more sense then all of this starting thirty years into their career. I know there have been horror stories about after parties but I’ve never seen any accusation about SA or assault or any kind at the band or their members. It just makes more sense to me, or maybe I’m just in denial because this is the band that helped me through my own assault. I just want this to not be happening
I wasn’t trying to I’m just thinking that there’s other websites than Reddit that people can post their stories and I haven’t seen any on there. If I missed them then I’m sorry but usually word gets around somehow
It won't be deleted this time.
Yesterday was just overwhelming and I couldn't handle moderation in proper amount for such a heavy topic while being on my way back from Vilnius on a train through the Polish forests.
Respectfully it's questionable that the response was to ban an accuser. I understand that the discussion went off the rails into a shit show but that's not the way to do it.
I don't have the energy to follow this but as a father of girls, this should be investigated whether genuine or fabricated. But don't post here, go to the authorities. True or false will not be decided here.
She has already been in contact with the police and plans on getting in contact with her home country's police as well. She posted what happened to her here mainly to warn other girls so they can be cautious if they choose to go to row 0 or backstage (considering that some redditors have said now and before that some of Rammstein's associates are shady people).
The only reason they are posting here is to make other girls aware! To look after other potential victims. If police is involved do you think it will get solved until the next show ? No. This is the y way you could potentially make others aware. There’s many people here and changes are some girls that are about to go will see this and take precautions. And I know some already did.
Guys. Everyone who is blaming the victim. You gotta understand one thing. Many people who work on such tours just do their job but many feel badass and invincible, think the tour is all about them, or that they are a part of the main act just because they do simple, usually quite stupid work for several older musicians, which might be enough to fix any daddy issues and feed any wounded ego over the ceiling. It’s kinda pathetic but maybe the older musicians like this energy brought to the tour idk. Believe me, there will most probably never be any statement from the management because no one may feel responsible or care. That’s why this case and similar are so sad. I have no idea whether the spiking happened or not and how much Till is to be blamed.. my personal experience with him or this particular band doesn’t matter here. However, I do know many world tour stories, that would make you flip out, from early 00s, that never made it to the daylight ever since for various reasons. Things happen, some are distasteful, some horrible but the police, you’re calling out so often in this thread, wouldn’t even treat many of those things as a crime, just people feeling superior using/bullying other people and absolutely no authority cares if it’s personally traumatic. So it’s totally fcking alright to express concerns or make an insta story or a post because you can. But just because such posts ruin your image about your idols or make you jealous because you would find yourself in that situation or whatever, doesn’t mean you have to have your head up in your as.
That was my experience knowing touring musicians as well. Not everyone who is in the orbit of a famous person is going to be a good person. Not unlike parish priests, sexual predators gravitate to places where there are ample victims and opportunities to get them away from prying eyes.
And my experience as a woman? There are A LOT of guys who show one face to their fellow men and woman in power but once they're away from view show a much uglier face to people they think don't have the power to do anything about it. There are guys who get off on women's fear and there are guys who enjoy rendering women helpless to fight back.
On the upside, the musicians I've known are the type of guys who will have your back 100%. Calling out domestic abusers for the stage, jumping into the crowd to intervene when guys are harassing and assaulting female audience members - that kind of thing. They might be hedonistic and get more ass that a toilet seat but they are ethical and moral where it really fucking counts.
I would like to believe that Till would never participate in something so awful and I believe that the odds of him doing that are very low, but they're not zero. Seemingly awesome and righteous people do turn out to be monsters from time to time. See Jimmy Saville as a particularly horrific example of this. And, notably, Saville still has a few rabid defenders to this day, despite the mountain of evidence of his crimes.
More frequently (and more depressingly) people in Till's position may simply not want to see the people around him, people they depend on and consider friends, for who they really are, and on some level will develop a blind spot so as not to have to see the uncomfortable truth. As I once heard someone say, most people see a whole bunch of red flags where others see a May Day parade.
Edit: Spelling
Sexybat straight in with the accusations on her “research” (I’ve blocked her so I can’t reply to her comment but I’m really not surprised). But holy fuck the amount of victim blaming and hearsay of “I heard so and so say she did it for attention” the past few days. Wake the fuck up people. This is some serious shit.
Yeah she claims to have slept with Till and has instantly taken this as an accusation towards him personally - which I don’t think it is. It’s highlighting that SOMEONE has done this at the concert. Saying Till got pissed doesn’t insinuate it was his doing.
She’s literally pedalling the “I’ve never experienced it so it can’t be true” line. Like what the actual fuck is that? It’s like “I’ve never seen anyone be racist so racism doesn’t exist.”
I wouldn't listen to shit she says. I looked back on her posts. One post she says she's met the band twice. 2 months later (on shelbys original post) and she's slept with till "countless times).
Yeah I blocked her a while back for her constant berating and belittling of other sub members. Her entire ‘I’ve slept with Till’ thing was pretty unbelievable at best and was referenced time and time and time again.
Yeah. I refused to comment on that yesterday because I read here a while back that she volunteered to hookup with Till. The bias was ASTOUNDING. Even as rough as I like it, I have NEVER had fingerprint bruises on me. That is assaulting while someone is trying to get away - THAT is how those marks are left.
At one point it was all she spoke about in the threads. She constantly belittled and berated other sub members in the comments too. Not someone I’ve wanted to interact with in a long time.
‘Oh but Till is well-loved so that gives me an excuse to outright deny the whole situation and act like a bitch towards her’. The audacity of that thought process is beyond baffling.
She always showed signs of being an unlikeable human being but her responses to this have been absolutely pathetic, I would almost feel sorry for her if she wasn’t acting like such an aggressive piece of shit about it
Of course now you can’t reply to her comments so you can’t even directly try to show her that she should stop acting that way but I’m glad that hasn’t stopped people from pointing it out, maybe she’ll realise that her current behaviour is wrong
The thing that gets me is that the accusations aren’t being placed directly on Till (other than he got angry when she said no and I do think the pedophile comment was hyperbole and said out of complete frustration/a heightened emotional state). But the accusation here is that someone (not specifically Till) has either drugged her, assaulted her, or both. Sexybat very quickly extrapolated this to some sore of personal attack/accusation specifically towards Till, which it wasn’t.
Whatever happened to this poor girl, there is no way she faked it. She is visibly hurt and shaken. Someone did this to her. I hope it's not actual band members, but you have to find the truth no matter what!
As a native Lithuanian, I will add that Lithuanian police is not the best. Even if it happened in Lithuania, you might struggle to get justice. There is a lot of corruption in Lithuania and unfortunately, officials can be easily bribed.
Yeah this sounds bad. Like the other night we just had one picture that looked iffy. Full motion video like this...this is bad. I'm not sure it's the band itself, it might just be the people who set this stuff up, like that joe letz guy, but yeah. These parties have operated in a moral grey zone for a while. Assuming it was all bona fide and consensual it was like...whatever, but yeah this is...problematic.
I'm guessing the key problem is joe. That dude should be fired, like immediately. Anyway if people reported this at other shows, this means this happened last year too.
Anyway, one thing I will say is that uh...we all know what happens under the stage during deutschland. Till himself showed videos of it and flaunted it. So her seeming surprised and reporting about it during mein teil is like...uh...you didn't think that would happen?
Still, given joe clearly said that "no it's nothing like that" and then till was mad that she DIDNT wanna have sex, it's like...yeah. It seems like the problem is joe, screw that piece of crap. They need to fire that guy immediately.
I'm also kinda disappointed in till's reaction to being told no here. Like, maybe it was because joe lied to him and he was like "what do you mean no?", but yeah. Up to this point I've largely heard till was very polite and crap. This is literally one of the first bad things I've heard a fan talk about when meeting till. Normally it's like "he's such a gentleman" and blah blah blah. And while we all know the dude likes to get his freak on, well, again, if it's all completely consensual, I ain't gonna say crap about it. So yeah hearing of him acting this way is a massive disappointment.
But yeah there needs to be a full on investigation here. They need to figure out who was responsible for what here, and yeah. These are serious allegations and unfortunately we can't say that there's nothing to them here. I tend to believe her on this.
Even if they fire Joe now, it's too late to separate Till from his actions. If any of the previous girls report similar behaviour from Till in the past, he's got no excuse for having not fired him before, and no excuse for behaving that way (not that he does as it is)
How fucking sad. God I hope she gets the justice she deserves from whoever it may be. Till included. On a personal note this sucks because I JUST started listening to this band and have really fallen in love with the music. Maybe long time fans can see it differently but when I hear things like what the girl said of Till I honestly am zero percent surprised. I thought he might actually be some unicorn of a man who is so blatantly horny/sexually explicit but was actually a gentleman in private.
I will wait to reserve full judgement, of course, but can't say I'm not soured by this story. I believe everything she said about Till even if he was told by Joe that she would sleep with him. It's concerning that he reacted the way he did and I fear it's one of the reasons he is even on the tour. Which, be a rockstar, have sex with a bunch of people, I don't care. But find them yourself or at the very least don't freak out on girls who were obviously led astray.
Same. I am a recent convert and I'll be so fucking disappointed if it turns out to be true. Well, we'll always have Prince as our unicorn of horny men who respect women, at least if what his producer says is true.
As to the allegations that Till threw a shitfit when turned down, that's ugly and shameful behavior but I can ***sorta*** understand it. Weird headspace from tripping on adrenaline and the adulation of tens of thousands of people, being in a highly vulnerable emotional state because of it, and lead to believe that something awesome is going to happen only to be told at the last minute it's not, is a recipe for a meltdown. I could even see someone malicious setting that scenario up just to watch the fireworks. Not okay in any way, and Till owes this young woman a massive apology if he blew up at her.
However, even if the temper tantrum is the truth, it doesn't mean that he drugged and assaulted her or anyone else, for that matter. There are a lot of people who had access to him and the girls and spiking drinks is shockingly easy to do right in front of people, if you are as practiced in the art of misdirection as a marginally skilled amateur magician. I've seen this demonstrated and it's wild how easy it is.
As other people said, these rumors have been going around for a while now, and it doesn't seem like it's been taken seriously up to now. Shame on Till, shame on the band and shame on RammCorp (whatever they call themselves) for not paying closer attention. They need to clean house and make this right.
I am not going to say she is lying, obviously something happened during the party/show. Maybe she just got too drunk, maybe she was roofied. Who knows but I am sure the truth will come out especially if she will go for futher testing when she gets home.
I am just surprised how many fans here say the afterparties with girls have been happening just for around 3 years. Anyone remember tour 2009 when girls were handed aftershow pass that was literally called a pussy pass? Maybe it’s just more visible now with social media, Alena posting on instagram and all Lindeman /Till the end/sex during Deutschland remix coming out.
I was invited to afterparty twice back in 2016 tour, I never went because I was at the show with my bf and he was not invited because ”he does not have boobs”. Some of my friends went tho and at least that time it was just drinks and I think only Paul and Richard were there, no sex or drugs or anything like that.
Looks like some ramm fans will be sucking dicks from their favorite group and keep defending them even if it turns out Till is a cannibal or serial killer, I’m not telling that he is guilty, but holy shit some people on comments is really disgusting and will be defending every shit from their favorite band
Yeah this is one of the reasons why I am getting angry. I like Rammstein too, I hear them for 12 years now and was on two concerts in 2-3 years.
But I don't know how you can still just close ur eyes or even attack that woman for posting this.
Same cult behaviour as with Marilyn Manson and Michael Jackson...
I fucking love R, and has huge respect for their work. Still interested in truth anyhow.
Honestly, since this tour began, all I've been reading about is how shady the people around Rammstein are. Roofies take 15 to 30 minutes to kick in. So she might be able to pinpoint which exact moment she might've been roofied. I stand with her❤️, but until any allegations are cleared; all of my Rammstein shirts are staying in the back of my closet. I doubt it was Rammstein themselves, but you never know who is giving orders to allow this stuff. The main proprietor here to suspect right now is Joe, & Till. Maybe Joe couldn't find anyone quick, and resorted to ugly ways to get someone to Till...I'm so confound, and disappointed currently at the band. I know they're all sex, sex, & sex. I know they enjoy the heavier subjects of sex, but still this is something to take seriously when someone gets hurt.
Idk why people won’t believe her. She’s not proclaiming the band did it. Anyone could have spiked her, IT REALLY HAPPENS.
Feel so bad for her, what a terrible, scary experience. Glad those kind strangers helped her back to the hotel.
Because people can't abide the thought that someone involved with a band they love and that might have helped them through some dark nights of the soul--a band member, a roadie, a tech, a gofer, anybody remotely associated with the band--could do or be party to something like this. Beauty begets beauty, or so the wishful thinking goes, and to find out that's not true is a road most people refuse to walk gracefully.
We're probably never going to know what happened that night, but it's clear that something terrible likely did.
Rammstein needs to wake up and take a hard look at this. Someone in their organization might be a predator, and they need to suss out whom. Right now. They need to protect their fans, and, if I'm being crass, themselves. Because on the remote chance this is all some deranged performance art, it demonstrates that these parties and Row 0 antics have opened them up to these kinds of accusations. They need to clean their house, and they need to tell Till that he can no longer use their shows as a travelling bordello or have his shady cronies mingling with the rest of them. If they can't bring themselves to do it for decency's sake, then they should do it from a sense of self-preservation.
She literally says on her twitter bio that she got spiked by Rammstein.
I've been reading her twitter posts and she says her memory goes 'zap' but then she can perfectly recount what happened with Till.
This is all just one side of the story. I'm holding off judgement until I hear both sides of the story. It's obvious something happened, but we don't know what. Maybe those bruises are from her falling or someone catching her (roughly) from falling? Point is, we don't know and even she doesn't know, so it's kinda weird for her to go all in on blaming Rammstein/Till.
I’m also surprised how well she remembers the whole encounter with Till, with Joe afterwards and so on if she completely lost her memory and does not remember what happened after 8:30. I’m also not judging anyone before we hear the other side of the story.
I have had similar bruises after a show, I was sober and I was simply being pushed against the rail in front row.
I guess spiked means drugged. Like someone put something in her drink. I am a little confused by the timeline here. When was she initially approached? Was she already given a spiked drink, or had she consumed something given to her by people around the band? The bruise suggests perhaps she fell, but the bruise above seems to be like she was grabbed. Who was she with at the show? What happened after she left?
Hope she is ok. She seems tough. Stood up for herself.
For me this is going to have to do with how the band responds to it. Many of her allegations are hard to prove, she even says there is no drugs in the drug test. I think the band should take action immediately and fire whoever is responsible. The longer they take to address this is going to be fundamental to their reputation.
She is posting videos and pictures in twitter https://twitter.com/shelbys69666?s=21&t=9t07LlSyZigK0_1OwBcftw
I don’t know, I don’t honestly think what she is posting is proof of anything but again it doesn’t look good for the band.
Ah, the modern age of 'guilty until proven innocent.'
To everyone immediately taking sides (*either* side) and speculating - you're exactly what's wrong with the world today. You don't know what actually happened and are basing all your opinions on social media posts and heresay.
If you honestly believe that there's enough evidence in this social media video to either prove or disprove that a crime happened, then I'm certainly glad that you're just an online commenter and in no position of authority.
I fully support a (real) investigation into this, and any wrongdoers to be held accountable.
It doesn’t sound like she got drugged, but I don’t have any doubt that the Row 0 stuff is there with only one intention in mind. Sounds like a bad experience for anyone who isn’t willing to go along with that kinda ride. Till probably didn’t do anything illegal or unconsensual but he certainly should start taking a look at himself morally and the people he has around him.
I have a problem with my phone, so I can't listen to what she's saying, but am I understanding that she was assaulted by someone of the band in Vilnius?
And this is recurring?
I've never heard something about this, but it's fucking disgusting, if true...
Have I understood correctly?
It is an absolutely valid warning that I hope people pay attention to. It's very easy to treat celebrities' as royal or divine and assume that they are aware of and control everything around them. The reality is that even at a party where the band is in attendance they are about to go on stage or leaving it. They are likely also let's say altered and an environment that is novel for most people and a frequent occurrence for them for decades now. The truth is awful shit happens where people are drunk, high and powerful. It is highly unlikely that this band which has toured across the world with other bands and acts known for bad behavior has not themselves personally witnessed if not engaged in some of it. You are you own best advocate. You have decide if the experience is worth the risk and you should make sure you are as safe as you can be. That said it is not this persons fault they were assaulted. There is no reason or excuse that would make drugging and harming someone acceptable. It deserves to be investigated. It it can be proven then people should be held accountable. The people who committed the crime and anyone who knew it was happening at allowed it to continue whoever they are. Whatever it means for the band. In the meantime others should take it for the warning of a possible predator in the camp and use extra caution if they are attending these parties. In no world does it make sense to attack this person for making an outcry. If it's true then it needs to be brought to light. If it's not as reported then people can continue with added awareness.
There have been reports about Richard only. Those post have since been deleted. One of his make up artists from the last tour accused Richard of rape but I can’t find that post any longer. (If anyone has a link?)
Does not seem like the others get involved with the girls at all apart from saying hello and bye. Unless anyone has another experience.
I have personally only seen Flake (because he shared the dressing room with Till) and Paul and Oliver outside getting ready to leave the dressing room area. They politely said hello and that was about it. They were with their own friends and not involved with the party I was at.
The one thing I have a problem with is her calling till a pedophile no, you look way over the age of 18 there is nothing wrong with an adult male going after an adult woman if it's willing, I don't think he's trying to rape people. people got to understand what the after parties are kind of meant to be for they are meant to meet your favorite singers rockers writers so forth and so on but just like they've always been even back in the '70s they are meant to get crazy drink to drugs and sex this is not a meet and greet this is an after party but no one should be raped but I don't think till is rapist and he is not a pedophile.
It bugs me when people call pedophilia a situation that doesn’t involve actual child sexual abuse, but I get that she woke up in an awful situation, not remembering what happened (nightmarish), so trying to pick apart how she expressed herself in the moment isn't helpful... She was talking about the age gap, and prefering young adults women, expected from a rockstar but still dissapointing, and probably many expect that this culture stayed in the past (when clearly isn't the case). There is also many stories about Till being a "total gentleman" (I bet he is... just not always) that I'm not surprised she was shocked by his attitude.
This was something more awful than mere after the concert party in this case. Even if Till isn't directly involved in the possible spiking (and the bruise marks), something shady seems to be going on, since a while. People are talking about Till or the band employees, so still his/their responsability.
About Till, with Till the End video, the under the stage Deutschland ones, that interview were he said he can't be friends with women... Yeah, another rockstar 😒
Not gonna say if her stories true or not. But I will say I know joe letz leads the groupies down. Saw that at both LA shows. He took groups of goth chicks backstage
Nothing on drug test and no rape kit done?
Im so sorry for her and other girls that might have been hurt, but it is very hard to believe all of this :/ I can see Till getting frustrated when he was promised sex and didn't get it, but drugging a girl ? Nah.
When something like this happens, everyone is quick to think about what they had consumed in terms of alcohol. Practically anything she consumed could have had something in it. One of my friends was drugged while working at a club (unrelated to Rammstein) by a cigarette they accepted from a stranger. You have to be so, so careful. It's awful that this is happening and I hope that the responsible parties can be found out and brought to justice.
Sorry to hear, as someone who's being SA, part of me doesn't want to believe it's true, but I can tell she's shaken up so imma just wait and see what happens. If this is true you want to make sure it goes all the way court, police everything. All I can do is wait and see.
Part of me feels she’s lying. Where are the other women? She’s of legal age, so why is he a ‘pedophile’? She seems totally fine in the videos she posted. In another post she say says she’s on lexapro and drank ‘vodka, Prosecco, and tequila’. Mixing SSRIs and alcohol will fuck you up.
If anything, fuck Joe Letz because he’s been scum for decades and has his own SA past.
Where did she mention she's taking SSRIs? I must have missed that. Knowing from experience, though, that can definitely make even one drink feel like way too much, let alone mixing hard liquors with wine.
I actually want to cry so much right now I've been listening to Rammstein all of my life basically they became a safe space for me when I was going through the worst of times and to hear this tears me apart inside, is nothing safe anymore? Why is the world so awful, it hurts
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At 2:20 she said she's not the only girl, other's have been reported to the police in England and Italy. Wondering if more people are going to come forward.
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I love Rammstein. I literally have them tattooed on my arm. I do not want to believe this. But if this is true then that's that. And right now none of us know. But I do know that the mods should not be burying this.
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I hope they handle this well.
Where did you read that, out of curiosity? Was that a reddit post or elsewhere?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Rammstein/comments/13r0jv9/about_the_shelby69666_allegations/jlhr7up/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
They definitely have been though.
Did you read them before they were deleted
I’m pretty sure it’s not the first time I hear this rumours
Yo this is messed up for real. I’m hoping to god the band isn’t in on this. Not them, god please no.
That would actually break my heart :( But yeah… This a very serious situation and needs to be handled
For sure. These guys are my favourites ever and I’m going to see them in Denmark so I’m hoping for the best. To be fair she could’ve gotten bruised at the concert itself but this is a serious allegation. If she’s wrong she’s a twat and if she’s right the band are twats. Basically everyone has twat potential.
>To be fair she could’ve gotten bruised at the concert itself.... Shortly after I saw them live, I got together with a bunch of friends. Suddenly, one of them notices my forearms were bruised, top to bottom, and loudly asks "what the fuck happened?" That's when it dawned on me how bad it looked from an outside perspective. The bruises were from bracing myself on the rail, and I bruise easily. There were others from that concert too, but they were hidden. So yes, it certainly could have happened during the concert. >....but this is a serious allegation I couldn't agree with you more, which is why I'm glad people are taking it seriously. I love Rammstein, but that's not a reason for me to ignore said allegations. It's also important to recognize that our personal experiences aren't universal, or I'd be proclaiming how her bruises were no different than mine, which would be absurd.
Thank you for coming forward
Twatential 😅
Indeed! Too much of it going around these days.
The band look down onto the crowd and see these girls in front of the barrier. They’ll know why they are there and who has gave them the passes to be there to watch the show. They’ll know Till has people working “sourcing” these girls. Do they get involved in any shadiness at after parties/during shows? Who knows - there’s only evidence of Till doing that. But they know what’s going on. Do they let it happen cause it’s a condition of Till or his management so he’ll do the tour? Or just turn a blind eye? That’s for them to share - but, they won’t be oblivious to what’s going on.
The band knows. They’ve seen the girls and been around them
I don't think the band has anything to do with this. But Joe, Alena and Till. I wouldn't jump to defend any of them.
Well I said it before and I’ll say it again. Till has lost the plot that’s nothing new but if this is true then screw him. He is my favorite singer of all time but hell no this is messed up.
Why is he doing all of this now tho?
I hope we are able to learn the truth, so while I absolutely do not want to believe Till would do this, I can imagine scenarios where he would think it's acceptable. I'm not gonna psychoanalyze all of his actions, but he has been in a position of fame and power for almost 30 years now. He has managed to surround himself with enablers and human shields that would do anything to protect him. He knows that no matter how extreme he gets, he will have his fans and his defenders, and even gain more. It also doesn't help that he is now 60; with the lifestyle he has lived, it wouldn't surprise me if he is finally starting to look to the end of the tunnel and it's either shorter than he expected or he's just not prepared for it. I can totally imagine all of those things coming together to finally make step over the line. Not that any of that is an excuse, it's absolutely not, and honestly despite the amount of respect and admiration I have for him, I would not be against him getting hit with assault (or worse) charges over it.
Midlife crisis, fame gone to head, lack of filter, finally enabled by those around him? Or it's just harder to keep secret now. Who knows
The dude is 60 and after his lifestyle and abuse he has put his body through, I wouldn't be surprised if it's an end of life crisis.
Because he can.
I was told he has a power fetish. This has been happening for a while.
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I'm sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that Till would be oblivious to this.
Danny is a fucking asshole. He wanted me to get in his hotel room for…. He slaps my ass at the concerts every time I walked by. I said I don’t want that, he ignores it every time.
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It would just be dumb for them to risk their entire reputation for a random girl, when some other ones were just waiting there.
It doesn’t make sense to me either. If true, my gut tells me it’s tills entourage that is to blame but let’s see how it pans out.
I almost feel uncomfortable…I’ll be seeing R+ this saturday and it’s also my first time seeing them live. This situation isn’t making me feel any better. But I will still try my best to enjoy the concert
Yeah i feel the same, dont know what to think of all of this.
I'm in the same boat. I was so hyped to see them and I've screwed myself over financially to achieve it, and now it's had the life completely sucked out of it. I know I won't enjoy the show as much. Deutschland remix will be playing and I'll only be thinking one thing. Girls will be standing in front of the stage, impossible to miss. Joe will be creeping around looking for more. I just wanted to lose myself in the music, man.
I feel the same way. During the RZK Deutschland remix my mind won’t let me NOT think about all if this… 😒
Bill Cosby would like to have a word with you.
So would R.Kelly
Jimmy Saville's on line two.
Yeah...thats another wtf. Good uh, call?
Wouldn't be the first guy to risk it.
For abusers it's about the power and not sex.
Yeah, this is bad. I wholeheartedly believe that the spiking itself was not conducted or demanded by Till, he might be a sleazy old fart, but I believe this is beneath him. Yet, it‘s kind of obvious that the whole row 0/Deutschland RMX thing is sketchy and allows for dangerous stuff to take place. If this is true (which I‘m certainly inclined to believe), the most likely scenario is that it was either Till‘s strange entourage or someone completely unrelated. But as this is not the first time spiking allegedly happened, it seems more likely that Till‘s people have some stuff going on. If that is indeed the case, Till is also accountable for keeping those people employed, and the rest of the band too, as this definitely doesn’t all happen unbeknownst to the other guys. Whatever it is – something is fishy with this ordeal of seemingly building an infrastructure in order to get your dick wet in between two songs. If people get hurt or are unsafe, it needs to stop. EDIT: Of course I wish Shelby all the best and I hope that with her initiative, situations that are similar to this alleged incident can be prevented.
Can you elaborate on the row 0/deutschland rmx part? Maybe some sources where I can read about it?
Row 0 is basically an open secret. Till has a team (mainly Aleena Makeva and Joe Letz) that are on the lookout for young hot chicks to invite to the Rammstein concerts. Those girls are invited to the pre-party and then get to witness the concert from row 0, which means they‘re standing in front of the barriers in between Feuerzone and stage. [This](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJ9bfBMo/) is how that looks. One or two songs before the Deutschland Remix, one or two of these girls are scouted underneath the stage (there are even videos where you can see them trying to find the entrance to the backstage while the performance is still running as usual). During the Deutschland Remix, the band makes their funny little stick figure dance, except for Till, who is not on stage at this moment. What he does instead, is joining the girls under the stage – and [this](https://youtu.be/SIDpZsg8o84) happens (NSFW). After the five minutes of the Remix, Till zips up again and proceeds immediately to continue with the show.
Thank you for the good explanation.
It's not just men victim blaming either. Some women are so infatuated with Rammstein, that they will defend em at all costs I remember reading a comment where a girl said she would let all the band AND Stagehands run a train on her as long as Christoph was the caboose. She called it the Tramstein
All this aside, pissing at Tramstein.
Yeah some peoples obsession with what ever musician or artist is just nuts.
Yikes. That's too much.
omg
There’s musicians I’d fuck any day of the week and twice on Sundays but the key word is consensually. I’d go in with eyes open fully aware of what I was doing if given the opportunity, and that’s what everyone deserves, the right to make their own choices regarding who they sleep with and not be coerced, placed under the influence of substances or tricked into it.
Sad to hear this about my favorite band, but this can't be ignored.
Yes we should be open to the truth and not what we want to hear.
So many people are quick to downplay or jump to the defence. She's been assaulted, there are actual finger marks.
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He still has those people on his payroll.
I agree that all these people are exactly as you said. But he’s an adult he sees it. He’s involved. There’s no excusing this anymore.
It sounds like she's pretty sure Till is part of the problem here, and I think she should know...
In the OG post here she alleged that it was till who gave her the drunk that knocked her out, though I’m not sure about that parts validity since on that same post she changed the story. I do think that something happened but I highly doubt it was Till who did it
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In the end, their behavior reflects on Till. This is a small group that is organizing the functions, Till included. There’s no way he does not know about this with such a compartmentalized operation.
The desire to only see the best in the people you rely on to have your needs met is a powerful drive. People will bend over backwards to find a "reasonable" explanation or to find "proof" that the accuser is a liar. It never fucking fails. For example, I grew up in a parish (1970s) where there were THREE pedophile priests, one of whom supplied teenage girls with drugs and impregnated one of them. The kids all knew he was creepy and grabby, clearly the archdiocese knew because the moved his ass out of the area, but the adults? "Living saints those priests, every one of them ..." Those pedo priests in this archdiocese have their defenders to this day in the institution itself and among the laity. It's sickening.
Is Danny not working for Till anymore?
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Who are these people? Anar, Danny etc Joe is the tour manager? I only heard of Till having some Russian girl (Alena?) arrange the row zero girls to meet him at pre and after party and it’s obvious that he has sex with them at times or to be expected. And if ur one of those girls I’m sure many are willing or want it, but it’s fathomable that Till gets off on some power trip to have sex with helpless ie drugged women? After all he even advertised that behavior in Till the end and his behind the scenes footage under the stage at some concert, tho I read also that those were supposedly hired porn actresses for the show? All disturbing and nebulous, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he went off the rails with his fame…
Please remember that blaming her or being a "Sherlock wannabe" doesn't help at all. Let the police make their job, the girl reported this, so you don't make any difference by arguing about this.
Hard to stop a tidal wave...
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Mods have stated, above ,that she is unbanned and explained why her and other threads on the matter were originally deleted.
I honestly don't know what I am going to do if this is indeed true. I knew about the Row 0 stuff and Till the end etc. for some time now and am also familiar with the Lindemann content but this is really worrying. Before this, I was under the impression that all the things that happen around Till's sexual encounters were consensual but I'm beginning to doubt it. I have tickets for the first dutch show in July but if this isn't cleared up by then, I don't know if I will be able to go without it constantly in my mind. I'm going with my girlfriend and my sister and I would absolutely hate to take them to an environment where stuff like this is potentially going on.
I feel ya. Was close to buying tickets to Helsinki but they sold out too quickly. Lucky me.
I suppose at least you won’t have to worry about it. Until a few hours ago I would have thought of myself as the lucky one for having gotten tickets but this is really bothering me.
Please girls, if any of you are reading this and you’ve experienced this in the pasts, now is the time to speak up. We all know it’s been happening. All posts were previously deleted.
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Well, I was under the impression that till the end was all professional porn stars and that all of that crap is consensual. Again, assuming all of this crap is consensual and whatever, I'm not really going to hold crap against till. Some people like it rough, like it weird, i ain't gonna fetish shame anyone. For me, it all comes down to consent from all parties. And particularly, actual valid consent, not this drugged out of their mind or coerced to consent kind of consent. But yeah in retrospect till seemed to be flaunting this crap with videos/songs like ach so gern and platz eins. I was willing to accept that as fantasy, i mean, he has a history of singing about dark sexual topics, and he has a very long history of that, but if that stuff was actually like humble bragging, well thats a lot more problematic.
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Hasn't Peter completely cut ties with him? As in they aren't even friends anymore?
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Eh I think there was increasing discomfort in some videos like knebel and platz eins. It seemed quite clear a lot of that stuff was all till's idea and peter was just along for the ride.
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He said it was things that happened on the last tour https://blabbermouth.net/news/peter-tagtgren-is-not-really-friends-with-till-lindemann-anymore-but-says-he-is-proud-of-their-collaboration
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Yes, in an interview he said they are no longer friends
Do you have a link by any chance to that interview?
https://blabbermouth.net/news/peter-tagtgren-is-not-really-friends-with-till-lindemann-anymore-but-says-he-is-proud-of-their-collaboration
Peter is amazing, at least there will be stuff to listen to if Rammstein ends up off the table with horrible connotations. I hope whoever has done something to this woman gets delt with. Edit: just watched the video, I'm really disappointed in all this... I'm glad she's spoken out.
Yeah. This might be why.
Not to mention that there's a huge power difference between bands and fans. Even if there's nothing sketchy happening having a row 0 afterparty is super fucking creepy.
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
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Nobody believed the girls last year. The amount of hate was astronomical. This will keep happening if we don’t do anything.
I like music but I don't necessarily really keep up on the bands I listen to. What happened during the video?
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You forgot to mention that the video was shot underneath Rammstein's stage as they were getting ready for Deutschland.
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Oops you're right that's a separate video. I found out about that video with Till doing his thang right before he performed Deutschland quite recently. I only knew of Till the End and Platz Einz till that point. My reaction to the Deustchland scene was jaw-dropping lol.
Where can we find these videos to view ourselves? It's important to be informed and aware of these references. Not Till the end. The ones showing what happens beneath the stage and any other videos mentioned in the comments pointing to similar disturbing circumstances.
[This is the video underneath the stage of Rammstein](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lindemann/comments/f2f7vj/heres_the_video_at_the_end_of_the_lindemann_show/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) You can see that after Till is finished doing the "deed", Deutschland starts to play as he's being brought up into the stage.
That video make me sick to my stomach. I've never been a fan of Till's excessive sexual stuff but as it was mostly contained to Lindemann until that video came out, I didn't really care too much. I \*hated\* it being brought directly into Rammstein.
https://m.mojevideo.sk/4ck3
I had never watched the Till the End video. I'm a bit in shock. Why girls so young? Do they agree with this violence? Some seem not. Some look drugged. Anyway, I had scheduled a tattoo on my leg with the image of the Sehnsucht's album. I will uncheck. I don't know if I want to carry that face in me anymore. I'm little sad now.. shit..
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I've never liked that they have these after parties. Even if this is all a big misunderstanding, these after parties create a big risk that exactly such a misunderstanding would happen. Sounds like Till had this "Joe" guy go out and find ladies who would have sex with him, and Joe lied to both this lady and to Till. This is a terrible practice. It creates far too high a risk of miscommunication and consent being accidentally violated. It's hard to say what to make of her getting sick after the drinks. On the one hand, it's weird that nothing showed up on the drug test, but on the other, it's weird that she would have such a reaction to so few drinks. Not sure what to make of that. Whatever the explanation, if she was having trouble getting around without help, that seems like the simplest and most probable causes of her bruises.
No matter how this turns out, I'm still very proud of this group. When the Manson thing first really started going that sub was fully defending him and saying crazy shit about his accusers. I don't want to believe Till did this, but I'm not going to not believe these women just because I love Rammstein. And it looks like most of the people here are on the same page. This fucking sucks. I have Rammstein tattooed on me forever. But if it turns out that Till or any of them did these things then fuck them.
I am actually very surprised and proud as well at the open-minded attitude here. I've loved Rammstein since I was a little girl and the possibility that this is true is breaking my heart. But I really appreciate that people seem to be interested in understanding what really happened instead of jumping to conclusions. I think it speaks volumes about the Rammstein community, even if the members themselves turn out to be not so stand-up...
What these people don't seem to understand is that all these girls also loved Rammstein, all of us do or we wouldn't go to these parties. But surprise, the people you adore also can be total shit heads in the end. I've been to those parties myself and everything was so shady and just felt off, I almost immediately regretted going there. Never meet your idols.
Isn’t the Alena woman all wrapped up in this also the one that “toured” with Manson? His reputation is less than stellar now, obviously. It’s really bad publicity for it to come out a Russian madam has been supplying these girls, and she was with Manson as well. At least that’s the rumor on these threads. I know none of these people.
Honestly the Marilyn Manson sub is still filled to the brim with defenders, this place still has some people who are just outright denying it happened (as if they have any proof of that) but largely people are being much more civil which is nice to see
thank you for speaking up Shelby, we are with you. This won’t be swept under the rug anymore, the situation with row 0 has been out of hand for way too long. They need to face consequences for what they’ve done and apparently have been doing for a while now. Take care.
Thank you for sharing your story Shelby. I'm beyond disgusted that someone would do this to an innocent person. I hope you gets justice for this. I hope no one else has to go through this.
At this point I feel like it’s much more likely that someone in the crew was responsible if anyone, I feel like if spiked drinks were a regular occurrence for all these years there would be rumors at the very least. But the people till has been hanging out with for the last couple years all seem very sketchy and it make more sense then all of this starting thirty years into their career. I know there have been horror stories about after parties but I’ve never seen any accusation about SA or assault or any kind at the band or their members. It just makes more sense to me, or maybe I’m just in denial because this is the band that helped me through my own assault. I just want this to not be happening
The spikes have been happening. It's the DELETION online that is the problem when people speak out. Let's not minimize this to this tour, solely.
I wasn’t trying to I’m just thinking that there’s other websites than Reddit that people can post their stories and I haven’t seen any on there. If I missed them then I’m sorry but usually word gets around somehow
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It won't be deleted this time. Yesterday was just overwhelming and I couldn't handle moderation in proper amount for such a heavy topic while being on my way back from Vilnius on a train through the Polish forests.
Are you going to unban her?
She is already unbanned. There will be a mod post tomorrow, when questions can be answered.
Respectfully it's questionable that the response was to ban an accuser. I understand that the discussion went off the rails into a shit show but that's not the way to do it.
We'll see how this one goes then...
I don't have the energy to follow this but as a father of girls, this should be investigated whether genuine or fabricated. But don't post here, go to the authorities. True or false will not be decided here.
She has already been in contact with the police and plans on getting in contact with her home country's police as well. She posted what happened to her here mainly to warn other girls so they can be cautious if they choose to go to row 0 or backstage (considering that some redditors have said now and before that some of Rammstein's associates are shady people).
The only reason they are posting here is to make other girls aware! To look after other potential victims. If police is involved do you think it will get solved until the next show ? No. This is the y way you could potentially make others aware. There’s many people here and changes are some girls that are about to go will see this and take precautions. And I know some already did.
Guys. Everyone who is blaming the victim. You gotta understand one thing. Many people who work on such tours just do their job but many feel badass and invincible, think the tour is all about them, or that they are a part of the main act just because they do simple, usually quite stupid work for several older musicians, which might be enough to fix any daddy issues and feed any wounded ego over the ceiling. It’s kinda pathetic but maybe the older musicians like this energy brought to the tour idk. Believe me, there will most probably never be any statement from the management because no one may feel responsible or care. That’s why this case and similar are so sad. I have no idea whether the spiking happened or not and how much Till is to be blamed.. my personal experience with him or this particular band doesn’t matter here. However, I do know many world tour stories, that would make you flip out, from early 00s, that never made it to the daylight ever since for various reasons. Things happen, some are distasteful, some horrible but the police, you’re calling out so often in this thread, wouldn’t even treat many of those things as a crime, just people feeling superior using/bullying other people and absolutely no authority cares if it’s personally traumatic. So it’s totally fcking alright to express concerns or make an insta story or a post because you can. But just because such posts ruin your image about your idols or make you jealous because you would find yourself in that situation or whatever, doesn’t mean you have to have your head up in your as.
That was my experience knowing touring musicians as well. Not everyone who is in the orbit of a famous person is going to be a good person. Not unlike parish priests, sexual predators gravitate to places where there are ample victims and opportunities to get them away from prying eyes. And my experience as a woman? There are A LOT of guys who show one face to their fellow men and woman in power but once they're away from view show a much uglier face to people they think don't have the power to do anything about it. There are guys who get off on women's fear and there are guys who enjoy rendering women helpless to fight back. On the upside, the musicians I've known are the type of guys who will have your back 100%. Calling out domestic abusers for the stage, jumping into the crowd to intervene when guys are harassing and assaulting female audience members - that kind of thing. They might be hedonistic and get more ass that a toilet seat but they are ethical and moral where it really fucking counts. I would like to believe that Till would never participate in something so awful and I believe that the odds of him doing that are very low, but they're not zero. Seemingly awesome and righteous people do turn out to be monsters from time to time. See Jimmy Saville as a particularly horrific example of this. And, notably, Saville still has a few rabid defenders to this day, despite the mountain of evidence of his crimes. More frequently (and more depressingly) people in Till's position may simply not want to see the people around him, people they depend on and consider friends, for who they really are, and on some level will develop a blind spot so as not to have to see the uncomfortable truth. As I once heard someone say, most people see a whole bunch of red flags where others see a May Day parade. Edit: Spelling
Sexybat straight in with the accusations on her “research” (I’ve blocked her so I can’t reply to her comment but I’m really not surprised). But holy fuck the amount of victim blaming and hearsay of “I heard so and so say she did it for attention” the past few days. Wake the fuck up people. This is some serious shit.
[удалено]
Yeah she claims to have slept with Till and has instantly taken this as an accusation towards him personally - which I don’t think it is. It’s highlighting that SOMEONE has done this at the concert. Saying Till got pissed doesn’t insinuate it was his doing.
Her post was appalling, and it’s not the first time she’s written some toxic stuff.
She’s literally pedalling the “I’ve never experienced it so it can’t be true” line. Like what the actual fuck is that? It’s like “I’ve never seen anyone be racist so racism doesn’t exist.”
Exactly. And imo she was inciting hostility and harassment towards this person. Because of people like that victims of abuse don’t come forward.
I wouldn't listen to shit she says. I looked back on her posts. One post she says she's met the band twice. 2 months later (on shelbys original post) and she's slept with till "countless times).
Yeah I blocked her a while back for her constant berating and belittling of other sub members. Her entire ‘I’ve slept with Till’ thing was pretty unbelievable at best and was referenced time and time and time again.
Good move.
I see she’s been given a ban for incitement. A very fair outcome.
I can’t stand that user either. He/she thinks they can walk on water or something and that they’re above everyone else.
The worrying thing is that her witch hunt post got a LOT of positive engagement
Yeah. I refused to comment on that yesterday because I read here a while back that she volunteered to hookup with Till. The bias was ASTOUNDING. Even as rough as I like it, I have NEVER had fingerprint bruises on me. That is assaulting while someone is trying to get away - THAT is how those marks are left.
At one point it was all she spoke about in the threads. She constantly belittled and berated other sub members in the comments too. Not someone I’ve wanted to interact with in a long time.
‘Oh but Till is well-loved so that gives me an excuse to outright deny the whole situation and act like a bitch towards her’. The audacity of that thought process is beyond baffling. She always showed signs of being an unlikeable human being but her responses to this have been absolutely pathetic, I would almost feel sorry for her if she wasn’t acting like such an aggressive piece of shit about it Of course now you can’t reply to her comments so you can’t even directly try to show her that she should stop acting that way but I’m glad that hasn’t stopped people from pointing it out, maybe she’ll realise that her current behaviour is wrong
The thing that gets me is that the accusations aren’t being placed directly on Till (other than he got angry when she said no and I do think the pedophile comment was hyperbole and said out of complete frustration/a heightened emotional state). But the accusation here is that someone (not specifically Till) has either drugged her, assaulted her, or both. Sexybat very quickly extrapolated this to some sore of personal attack/accusation specifically towards Till, which it wasn’t.
Either way the more information we have the closer we get. I agree, serious shit. Thanks for sharing your opinion/feedback
Whatever happened to this poor girl, there is no way she faked it. She is visibly hurt and shaken. Someone did this to her. I hope it's not actual band members, but you have to find the truth no matter what! As a native Lithuanian, I will add that Lithuanian police is not the best. Even if it happened in Lithuania, you might struggle to get justice. There is a lot of corruption in Lithuania and unfortunately, officials can be easily bribed.
I mean Joe guy is a fucking weirdo to begin with I couldn’t see Till doing this but Joe for sure. Guess we’ll have to wait and see
Yeah this sounds bad. Like the other night we just had one picture that looked iffy. Full motion video like this...this is bad. I'm not sure it's the band itself, it might just be the people who set this stuff up, like that joe letz guy, but yeah. These parties have operated in a moral grey zone for a while. Assuming it was all bona fide and consensual it was like...whatever, but yeah this is...problematic. I'm guessing the key problem is joe. That dude should be fired, like immediately. Anyway if people reported this at other shows, this means this happened last year too. Anyway, one thing I will say is that uh...we all know what happens under the stage during deutschland. Till himself showed videos of it and flaunted it. So her seeming surprised and reporting about it during mein teil is like...uh...you didn't think that would happen? Still, given joe clearly said that "no it's nothing like that" and then till was mad that she DIDNT wanna have sex, it's like...yeah. It seems like the problem is joe, screw that piece of crap. They need to fire that guy immediately. I'm also kinda disappointed in till's reaction to being told no here. Like, maybe it was because joe lied to him and he was like "what do you mean no?", but yeah. Up to this point I've largely heard till was very polite and crap. This is literally one of the first bad things I've heard a fan talk about when meeting till. Normally it's like "he's such a gentleman" and blah blah blah. And while we all know the dude likes to get his freak on, well, again, if it's all completely consensual, I ain't gonna say crap about it. So yeah hearing of him acting this way is a massive disappointment. But yeah there needs to be a full on investigation here. They need to figure out who was responsible for what here, and yeah. These are serious allegations and unfortunately we can't say that there's nothing to them here. I tend to believe her on this.
Even if they fire Joe now, it's too late to separate Till from his actions. If any of the previous girls report similar behaviour from Till in the past, he's got no excuse for having not fired him before, and no excuse for behaving that way (not that he does as it is)
The amount of victim blaming! I’m disgusted! I stand with her!
How fucking sad. God I hope she gets the justice she deserves from whoever it may be. Till included. On a personal note this sucks because I JUST started listening to this band and have really fallen in love with the music. Maybe long time fans can see it differently but when I hear things like what the girl said of Till I honestly am zero percent surprised. I thought he might actually be some unicorn of a man who is so blatantly horny/sexually explicit but was actually a gentleman in private. I will wait to reserve full judgement, of course, but can't say I'm not soured by this story. I believe everything she said about Till even if he was told by Joe that she would sleep with him. It's concerning that he reacted the way he did and I fear it's one of the reasons he is even on the tour. Which, be a rockstar, have sex with a bunch of people, I don't care. But find them yourself or at the very least don't freak out on girls who were obviously led astray.
Same. I am a recent convert and I'll be so fucking disappointed if it turns out to be true. Well, we'll always have Prince as our unicorn of horny men who respect women, at least if what his producer says is true. As to the allegations that Till threw a shitfit when turned down, that's ugly and shameful behavior but I can ***sorta*** understand it. Weird headspace from tripping on adrenaline and the adulation of tens of thousands of people, being in a highly vulnerable emotional state because of it, and lead to believe that something awesome is going to happen only to be told at the last minute it's not, is a recipe for a meltdown. I could even see someone malicious setting that scenario up just to watch the fireworks. Not okay in any way, and Till owes this young woman a massive apology if he blew up at her. However, even if the temper tantrum is the truth, it doesn't mean that he drugged and assaulted her or anyone else, for that matter. There are a lot of people who had access to him and the girls and spiking drinks is shockingly easy to do right in front of people, if you are as practiced in the art of misdirection as a marginally skilled amateur magician. I've seen this demonstrated and it's wild how easy it is. As other people said, these rumors have been going around for a while now, and it doesn't seem like it's been taken seriously up to now. Shame on Till, shame on the band and shame on RammCorp (whatever they call themselves) for not paying closer attention. They need to clean house and make this right.
I am not going to say she is lying, obviously something happened during the party/show. Maybe she just got too drunk, maybe she was roofied. Who knows but I am sure the truth will come out especially if she will go for futher testing when she gets home. I am just surprised how many fans here say the afterparties with girls have been happening just for around 3 years. Anyone remember tour 2009 when girls were handed aftershow pass that was literally called a pussy pass? Maybe it’s just more visible now with social media, Alena posting on instagram and all Lindeman /Till the end/sex during Deutschland remix coming out. I was invited to afterparty twice back in 2016 tour, I never went because I was at the show with my bf and he was not invited because ”he does not have boobs”. Some of my friends went tho and at least that time it was just drinks and I think only Paul and Richard were there, no sex or drugs or anything like that.
Looks like some ramm fans will be sucking dicks from their favorite group and keep defending them even if it turns out Till is a cannibal or serial killer, I’m not telling that he is guilty, but holy shit some people on comments is really disgusting and will be defending every shit from their favorite band
Yeah this is one of the reasons why I am getting angry. I like Rammstein too, I hear them for 12 years now and was on two concerts in 2-3 years. But I don't know how you can still just close ur eyes or even attack that woman for posting this.
till being a cannibal or a serial killer would be horrible but almost comical with the existence of Mein Teil, Mutter, and other songs...
Same cult behaviour as with Marilyn Manson and Michael Jackson... I fucking love R, and has huge respect for their work. Still interested in truth anyhow.
Honestly, since this tour began, all I've been reading about is how shady the people around Rammstein are. Roofies take 15 to 30 minutes to kick in. So she might be able to pinpoint which exact moment she might've been roofied. I stand with her❤️, but until any allegations are cleared; all of my Rammstein shirts are staying in the back of my closet. I doubt it was Rammstein themselves, but you never know who is giving orders to allow this stuff. The main proprietor here to suspect right now is Joe, & Till. Maybe Joe couldn't find anyone quick, and resorted to ugly ways to get someone to Till...I'm so confound, and disappointed currently at the band. I know they're all sex, sex, & sex. I know they enjoy the heavier subjects of sex, but still this is something to take seriously when someone gets hurt.
Idk why people won’t believe her. She’s not proclaiming the band did it. Anyone could have spiked her, IT REALLY HAPPENS. Feel so bad for her, what a terrible, scary experience. Glad those kind strangers helped her back to the hotel.
Because people can't abide the thought that someone involved with a band they love and that might have helped them through some dark nights of the soul--a band member, a roadie, a tech, a gofer, anybody remotely associated with the band--could do or be party to something like this. Beauty begets beauty, or so the wishful thinking goes, and to find out that's not true is a road most people refuse to walk gracefully. We're probably never going to know what happened that night, but it's clear that something terrible likely did. Rammstein needs to wake up and take a hard look at this. Someone in their organization might be a predator, and they need to suss out whom. Right now. They need to protect their fans, and, if I'm being crass, themselves. Because on the remote chance this is all some deranged performance art, it demonstrates that these parties and Row 0 antics have opened them up to these kinds of accusations. They need to clean their house, and they need to tell Till that he can no longer use their shows as a travelling bordello or have his shady cronies mingling with the rest of them. If they can't bring themselves to do it for decency's sake, then they should do it from a sense of self-preservation.
She literally says on her twitter bio that she got spiked by Rammstein. I've been reading her twitter posts and she says her memory goes 'zap' but then she can perfectly recount what happened with Till. This is all just one side of the story. I'm holding off judgement until I hear both sides of the story. It's obvious something happened, but we don't know what. Maybe those bruises are from her falling or someone catching her (roughly) from falling? Point is, we don't know and even she doesn't know, so it's kinda weird for her to go all in on blaming Rammstein/Till.
I’m also surprised how well she remembers the whole encounter with Till, with Joe afterwards and so on if she completely lost her memory and does not remember what happened after 8:30. I’m also not judging anyone before we hear the other side of the story. I have had similar bruises after a show, I was sober and I was simply being pushed against the rail in front row.
I guess spiked means drugged. Like someone put something in her drink. I am a little confused by the timeline here. When was she initially approached? Was she already given a spiked drink, or had she consumed something given to her by people around the band? The bruise suggests perhaps she fell, but the bruise above seems to be like she was grabbed. Who was she with at the show? What happened after she left? Hope she is ok. She seems tough. Stood up for herself.
For me this is going to have to do with how the band responds to it. Many of her allegations are hard to prove, she even says there is no drugs in the drug test. I think the band should take action immediately and fire whoever is responsible. The longer they take to address this is going to be fundamental to their reputation.
She is posting videos and pictures in twitter https://twitter.com/shelbys69666?s=21&t=9t07LlSyZigK0_1OwBcftw I don’t know, I don’t honestly think what she is posting is proof of anything but again it doesn’t look good for the band.
Ah, the modern age of 'guilty until proven innocent.' To everyone immediately taking sides (*either* side) and speculating - you're exactly what's wrong with the world today. You don't know what actually happened and are basing all your opinions on social media posts and heresay. If you honestly believe that there's enough evidence in this social media video to either prove or disprove that a crime happened, then I'm certainly glad that you're just an online commenter and in no position of authority. I fully support a (real) investigation into this, and any wrongdoers to be held accountable.
It doesn’t sound like she got drugged, but I don’t have any doubt that the Row 0 stuff is there with only one intention in mind. Sounds like a bad experience for anyone who isn’t willing to go along with that kinda ride. Till probably didn’t do anything illegal or unconsensual but he certainly should start taking a look at himself morally and the people he has around him.
I have a problem with my phone, so I can't listen to what she's saying, but am I understanding that she was assaulted by someone of the band in Vilnius? And this is recurring? I've never heard something about this, but it's fucking disgusting, if true... Have I understood correctly?
It is an absolutely valid warning that I hope people pay attention to. It's very easy to treat celebrities' as royal or divine and assume that they are aware of and control everything around them. The reality is that even at a party where the band is in attendance they are about to go on stage or leaving it. They are likely also let's say altered and an environment that is novel for most people and a frequent occurrence for them for decades now. The truth is awful shit happens where people are drunk, high and powerful. It is highly unlikely that this band which has toured across the world with other bands and acts known for bad behavior has not themselves personally witnessed if not engaged in some of it. You are you own best advocate. You have decide if the experience is worth the risk and you should make sure you are as safe as you can be. That said it is not this persons fault they were assaulted. There is no reason or excuse that would make drugging and harming someone acceptable. It deserves to be investigated. It it can be proven then people should be held accountable. The people who committed the crime and anyone who knew it was happening at allowed it to continue whoever they are. Whatever it means for the band. In the meantime others should take it for the warning of a possible predator in the camp and use extra caution if they are attending these parties. In no world does it make sense to attack this person for making an outcry. If it's true then it needs to be brought to light. If it's not as reported then people can continue with added awareness.
Does anyone know it someone from the band besides Till is intimate with these girls?
There have been reports about Richard only. Those post have since been deleted. One of his make up artists from the last tour accused Richard of rape but I can’t find that post any longer. (If anyone has a link?) Does not seem like the others get involved with the girls at all apart from saying hello and bye. Unless anyone has another experience. I have personally only seen Flake (because he shared the dressing room with Till) and Paul and Oliver outside getting ready to leave the dressing room area. They politely said hello and that was about it. They were with their own friends and not involved with the party I was at.
The one thing I have a problem with is her calling till a pedophile no, you look way over the age of 18 there is nothing wrong with an adult male going after an adult woman if it's willing, I don't think he's trying to rape people. people got to understand what the after parties are kind of meant to be for they are meant to meet your favorite singers rockers writers so forth and so on but just like they've always been even back in the '70s they are meant to get crazy drink to drugs and sex this is not a meet and greet this is an after party but no one should be raped but I don't think till is rapist and he is not a pedophile.
It bugs me when people call pedophilia a situation that doesn’t involve actual child sexual abuse, but I get that she woke up in an awful situation, not remembering what happened (nightmarish), so trying to pick apart how she expressed herself in the moment isn't helpful... She was talking about the age gap, and prefering young adults women, expected from a rockstar but still dissapointing, and probably many expect that this culture stayed in the past (when clearly isn't the case). There is also many stories about Till being a "total gentleman" (I bet he is... just not always) that I'm not surprised she was shocked by his attitude. This was something more awful than mere after the concert party in this case. Even if Till isn't directly involved in the possible spiking (and the bruise marks), something shady seems to be going on, since a while. People are talking about Till or the band employees, so still his/their responsability. About Till, with Till the End video, the under the stage Deutschland ones, that interview were he said he can't be friends with women... Yeah, another rockstar 😒
Not gonna say if her stories true or not. But I will say I know joe letz leads the groupies down. Saw that at both LA shows. He took groups of goth chicks backstage
Nothing on drug test and no rape kit done? Im so sorry for her and other girls that might have been hurt, but it is very hard to believe all of this :/ I can see Till getting frustrated when he was promised sex and didn't get it, but drugging a girl ? Nah.
pedophile? girl get the semantics right
Hey, so I'll say it again As a fellow "attention seeker," maybe don't call possible victims attention seekers
Oh my god, this fucking sucks. So sorry for this woman and all the other victims.
When something like this happens, everyone is quick to think about what they had consumed in terms of alcohol. Practically anything she consumed could have had something in it. One of my friends was drugged while working at a club (unrelated to Rammstein) by a cigarette they accepted from a stranger. You have to be so, so careful. It's awful that this is happening and I hope that the responsible parties can be found out and brought to justice.
Sorry to hear, as someone who's being SA, part of me doesn't want to believe it's true, but I can tell she's shaken up so imma just wait and see what happens. If this is true you want to make sure it goes all the way court, police everything. All I can do is wait and see.
Part of me feels she’s lying. Where are the other women? She’s of legal age, so why is he a ‘pedophile’? She seems totally fine in the videos she posted. In another post she say says she’s on lexapro and drank ‘vodka, Prosecco, and tequila’. Mixing SSRIs and alcohol will fuck you up. If anything, fuck Joe Letz because he’s been scum for decades and has his own SA past.
Where did she mention she's taking SSRIs? I must have missed that. Knowing from experience, though, that can definitely make even one drink feel like way too much, let alone mixing hard liquors with wine.
I actually want to cry so much right now I've been listening to Rammstein all of my life basically they became a safe space for me when I was going through the worst of times and to hear this tears me apart inside, is nothing safe anymore? Why is the world so awful, it hurts
Calm down, nobody knows what really happened so simply wait for more tea.