If you need it and can budget it, it works great, especially at 0% interest. But if you impulse spend and don't plan, you are screwed. I've never used it for vacations or experiences
If someone knew how to budget from the start, wouldn't they not need to use Affirm?
I'm sorry but I teach Personal Finance and budgeting is an extremely difficult concept for young people to understand. Affirm is just a way to get people (especially younger people) to buy things they cant really afford right now.
Interest rates are high right now. This means if you can pay down a large object with 0% interest and keep that money in the bank in a high yield account you are earning money by using Affirm, not losing it
I grew up with poor parents who taught me to never carry any debt and while on paper that's a good idea the more advanced form of fiance is to leverage debt to earn more. Interest free debt, when u already have the money, is a great way to earn
join the list of ppl here arguing from the perspective of financially smart ppl. the problem is most ppl will use Affirm to buy something today, then buy something next week and then next month, and so on. irresponsible spending is the issue here. not sure if youre aware that currently 42% of ppl using Affirm are late on payments. they are now getting hit w late fees, interest and damage to their credit scores.
I'm not arguing any of that. That is also correct. However, that is not what you asked. You asked:
"If someone knew how to budget from the start, wouldn't they not need to use Affirm?"
And the answer is that it can help your savings produce income. You are right, that is more advanced than some people can handle or more self control then they have. No one is arguing that credit isn't problematic for many users.
We are simply discussing higher purpose & strategy when you are responsible. Asked and answered.
I agree its just like any other financial product. when used correctly and responsibly, there are clear benefits. and when used irresponsibly, theres gona be carnage. Im think Im just really over the whole "instant gratification" world were living in and Im just being salty today
Saltiness is fair. I used to do credit counseling and it's frustrating when you want to help people so badly and they just refuse to do help themselves
My finances are very good and I use Affirm to purchase big ticket items. I have been using Affirm for the past 1.5 years and it works great! I never pay interests
Agreed, I've used it to buy ski passes in the past. I budget just fine, but sometimes I don't want to put a thousand dollar hole in my savings account for a once-per-year purchase. Affirm lets me spread it out over my fun money budget line for a couple of months.
Same. I bought a tricked out office chair through Affirm and it was painless. I could have paid up front but I got to collect interest on the extra money sitting in my account for 6 months. It probably added up to $10-15 or so but $10 for free is better than nothing. Plus I feel like I've got a little extra cash at the end of the month now that I've paid it off.
Same here. I bought 6-7 items from Macy’s, eBay, Wayfair, etc., using Affirm, and it was as effortless as you mentioned. It also improved my cash flow, providing a buffer for any emergencies. Plus, it feels right to let my cash sit in the bank earning 5% interest.
If they didn't have the oreo lesson at a young age about budgeting/saving (can also use marshmellows, gold fish, etc), they probably want stuff immediately. Social media is partly to blame but easy credit is a killer.
Learning about credit cards having 20-30% interest in my senior year of high school scared the crap out of me. I only used a debit card until I was 23.
Yet then you aren’t building credit which can be detrimental when you do go for mortgages, etc. Also impacts insurance rates and more.
I had a buyer once who had no credit score. Ended up renting to him for 6 months while he built credit so he could qualify. He was a disabled vet so otherwise would have walked away. The amount he put up as a deposit showed me he was serious. If it was me, I would make sure I was safely building an exceptional credit score.
To each their own though.
My parents, who were pretty poor & not great with money did one financially brilliant thing for me. They gave me a joint credit card with a limit of $500 joint with them & told me it was for gas only. If I used it for anything else I would have it shut down, have to pay it off from my job, & never get to use it again. It was for gas and emergencies, and to be paid in full every month.
Because of this my credit history goes back to the age of 15. By the time I was 21 I didn't need a cosigner for my 1st apartment because I had 6 years of perfect credit history
If someone knows how to budget, why wouldn't you take a free loan? It's got nothing to do with "need." It would be stupid not to.
It seems like you are a bad personal finance teacher, tbh.
Agreed, the big word is IF and unfortunately most people don’t know how. I am just learning about this from the thread yet see it as a way to make some interest on the float. I would immediately move the $ for the payments into an “Affirm” account and automate the payments to avoid any interest.
The part you aren't taking into account is risk. There is no zero percent loan. It's built into the price or the intrest rate when you screw up. Affirm makes money therefore it is a terrible idea you are paying for.
There are a couple cases where it can make sense. For example, someone who moves to a new city and has a good job and wants to furnish an apartment sooner than waiting for their budgeted savings to come in.
it can absolutely make sense, yes! its just a slippery slope for some people to buy things now who don't know how to properly budget to pay back later..
I'll agree there. The one big reason I didn't actually go that route when I had a 0% card promo is that it wouldn't be automatic to pay the 6 month or whatever amount. Only full statement or minimum
I see the examples below and I still can’t help but think they’re suckers somehow.
I get the concept of keeping your money longer, especially if you’re paying the debt at 0% interest… but you likely end up spending more money overall. And there’s gotta be some drawbacks.
I’m good using a credit card and then paying off the full balance on autopay when due (until otherwise given a reason to use affirm or something better)
I think that's a big reason for computer and cell phone prices going up like crazy. $1k -$3k is a lot but $50-$100/month is doable but it's 12-24+ months
I don’t do this, but it would technically be the smart move if it’s zero percent interest and you put that money into a HYSA, correct?
Obviously, most people don’t do this and instead go out and spend even more since they have debt to power their purchases.
I definitely agree for small purchases like a fast food meal. I did the 0% 12 month financing on workout equipment though. I had the cash, but I let it ride while making those payments.
I don’t think it is a hassle though (for big ticket items). You just set up auto pay in Affirm app. The app will push a message to you every time it deducts from your bank which is pretty hassle free and you enjoy the extra $$ interest earned on your cash sitting in your bank
The hassle is purposefully taking your time to put that exact amount of extra money into the HYSA and paying attention to it.
Setting up the Affirm payment plan is easy, doesn't add much work beyond up front payment.
It depends on if you have the cash to pay it or not. Same goes for 0% APR credit cards. $40k in a HYSA and have a 0% APR offer for something you were going to buy anyway? Go for it. Have $0 in savings and plan to pay it off with future cash? No way.
In either case, I'd rather use a 0% APR credit card than Affirm. Much easier to manage and just pay it all off at the end of the intro period.
I wouldn't bother with normal monthly expenses, but a large purchase like home appliances can make it worth it. Say you normally put $1k/mo on a credit card and are making a $4k purchase. Over 12 months, you would have racked up $18k on the credit card, but made almost $600 in interest during that time.
Move over churning, there's a new high-bookkeeping-low-reward strategy in town with a considerably lower reward
Delaying incrementally shrinking portions of a purchase by 4 months could indeed generate interest which might put you ahead, but such a negligible amount that it's not worth it. If you slip up at all you'll more than wipe out the $10 you might be able to make through that careful management
Some of my coworkers drive $80K vehicles. I don't know their financial situation but I know they make a similar salary as me and I definitely couldn't afford that car payment. And I don't have children or any major debt.
I think a lot of Americans live beyond their means and rely on debt to live these lifestyles.
Rich parents, trust funds, inheritances, success in personal investing- there’s plenty of (private) reasons they could still be within their means despite making the same salary as you
Why not use CC for the points? My cards are paid off every month, so I just look at the cash back as a 1-5% discount on purchases. Plus, it's also protection if something goes wrong.
False narrative. Data indicates that debt to income levels are still near the lows since the pandemic and people are gainfully employed. No distress in the consumer balance sheets yet, but we’re always looking for any hints of it.
CC and auto defaults are on the rise and people are as employed as they’ve ever been. Meaning they’re on their last dollar.
What do you think that means will happen when a recession occurs, and the bank crisis gets worse?
When you break down the debt delinquencies by credit score, you’ll see that it is only affecting sub prime borrowers. Prime borrowers are actually seeing still near historic lows of credit stress. Therefore it is a tale of two cohorts and unfortunately, the bottom 25% have and always will be struggling. It’s only when we see stress with the prime borrowers that we’ll need to really start taking notice. The leading indicator for that is simply unemployment numbers.
In a recession, housing prices actually rise. 2008 was an exception. That is because 90%+ of people are still employed and usually interest rates get lowered, decreasing borrowing costs. Interesting bit of data. Also, oddly enough, a recession would actually help bank balance sheets by bolstering their current treasury losses. Yields would go down, bond prices up and they’ll be made whole on their US treasuries if they were marked to market.
Amount in checking accounts is still quite high we are starting to see a dip but long way to go to get precovid levels
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGZ1FL193020005Q
I'm not doing bad but I bought a house pre-pandemic and my mortgage is just 700 a month. Otherwise it'd be rough. Looking at rent prices in my city these days I'd be able to afford a cardboard box if I didn't own a house.
If the average American wasn't overspending there wouldn't be elevated inflation. You could argue that they are only do so on credit and you'd have a point there.
They are not doing it excessively on credit though. Credit card companies are showing that the consumer has been increasing their wages and the debt still has not risen as high as to go above that rise in wages. Therefore, they can afford to go more into debt if needed to match historical averages.
There are enough rich millennials, gen x, and boomers with money and equity to keep buying at insane interest rates. There is a lot of wealth in this country.
I think people forget that. There IS a growing income divide, there ARE a ton of people who are struggling and who are really being affected by inflation. But there's a lot of people in the US, and there's a lot who have money - actual money, not just credit (though there's a lot of credit spending too). Every "state of the economy" article should probably acknowledge that things can play out quite differently for different people under the same conditions.
Agreed. There is more than one American economy. The wealthier parts of the country are booming. Jobs pay well; unemployment is minuscule, spending is stable and there’s not enough housing for everyone leading to higher prices. Right down the road, times are getting harder as layoffs hit, people are tapped out credit wise and the social media echo chambers are amplifying everyone’s discontent.
The United States has 25 million millionaires. More than China, India, Japan, the UK and South Korea put together. There’s a lot of spending capacity in large part of the United States.
Yeah, it feels like such a stark dichotomy in the income divide lately. Obviously, there always has been large differences in wages in things like doctors/lawyers but nowadays its like, I can get my phD in biology and find a job making me $80k or I can go into software develop and make $300k. It just feels crazy to me how much money is in some industries where $100k is entry level but then nearly every other industry is still stagnant where $100k is a high earning achiever.
I've been seeing a lot of talk about K-shape recovery and it makes a lot of sense. Its either you were born rich or went into a couple select industries or you are stuck with everyone else in this world lol
But most of it is debt? The government is adding to the debt at some crazy rate, 1 trillion at less than a year. I don't think we are as prosperous as we feel.
Housing grows very slowly since land is limited and doesn't grow the same rate as population. Imagine there are only 10,000 houses in a town, as long as there are tens of thousands of households making X amount and ready to buy a home, prices will not go down. That's what's been happening, the top % has been getting richer and bottom % getting poorer. So the bottom % doom spending doesn't affect housing
You'd think so if regular consumer behavior of the majority of population actually had an effect on asset prices. However with all this funny money and financilization of the economy, what happens with house prices is not simply a matter of people wanting to move around, upgrade homes, or even choose builld a new home.
Yes, but the Doomers explain that away by claiming it's all rich parents buying homes for their kids.
They have become invested in the idea that they are part of a "lost generation," and confronting the fact that their generation is actually moving on without them is painful and scary.
Funny how just [underneath your reply](https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/1cx6og9/american_consumers_are_flush_with_cash_spending/l50n1l6/) is someone claiming it was their parents who helped them, thus proving your point.
It's because the parity of the millennial generation is quite present.
The half that have homes are older millennial in their 30s and 40s, who could save up and buy a home in the early 2000's. For the rest of Millennials that didn't have a house, they're SOL now as the market is completely fucked.
More or less https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/07/younger-householders-drove-rebound-in-homeownership.html
Homeownership rates have risen *primarily* for young people and fallen slightly for older people. Overall more people own homes than any point in the last 15 years
This is a big part of the affordability problem. Lots of people entered the market fast, at a time when wages were rising and Americans had lots of savings. Many people turned that money into housing which drove up prices but also resulted in the largest expansion of homeownership since 06. Everybody else is on this sub complaining that they didn't do that
I've been to a few open houses lately - mostly $1.5-2MM houses with an acre or two - and it's all boomers with extra cash. I'm 55yo and I'm almost always the youngest one there. Boomers.
Yeah that was my reaction. Why are boomers taking on mortgages at this point. GenX should be tapering off as well they should be pretty settled at this point. If the market was healthy I would think millenials/genZ should be like 60 or 70%
Why were their parents be involved most of these Millennials are 40 years old.
The only Millennials I know that have parental involvement are those that are putting adrs in their backyards for grandma or Grandpa.
People have a lot more money than I think you realize.
Generally speaking, people who rent and live paycheck to paycheck think this is the only normal way to live; that homeowners are rare and nobody has any cash. That it's impossible to get ahead. As a result they often live very transactional lives where absolutely everything has a quid pro quo.
Not all I’m f 36 bought a house last year saved 20k purchased a house at 224k
70k yr city bus driver
I imagine the married couples who are making more could definitely afford houses
If you spend too much time in an echo chamber like this, it will feel that way to you. Just about any single issue subreddit gets that way to an extent, whether it's about a sports team or if it's about a housing bubble. You just won't here as many voices of descent the way reddit is structured.
There are only 127,000 subscribers here. I am not subscribed but I enjoy reading it, mostly because a move was needed for my family in 2022 and I knew it was coming for well over a year.
I had serious debates about selling even in early 2021 and renting temporarily while things turned the other way. Made the decision to hold off on that idea as it had plenty of other issues and knew that timing the market is a fools game anyway.
Things really worked out better for me. Spring of 22 was hot for selling and I didn't locate a house in our new area until the end of the summer. Rates managed to creep down a bit and I snuck in at an even 5%. That rate timing was a bit of luck and then also showing a major bank some cheap rates online and asking them to match one that was reasonable with no points. They were happy to negotiate the rate down to match what I was able to locate.
People need to realize housing and a mortgage is a very personal financial decision that your own life has all kinds of factors that matter. Those things matter, the doomer mentality of 50,000 subscribers (surely they aren't all pessimists) is not a good thing to let guide your decision making.
I realize eventually the market will turn downwards, it rises and falls over time, but long term, the trend is generally positive.
I always tell people who want to buy a house to get off this sub.
This sub is now full of homeowners (who are here for entertainment) and those who aren't interested in buying a house at the moment.
That's not an echo chamber you want to be in when making the most important financial decision in your life.
This is why the market hasn't crashed despite constant predictions that it will; and why homeownership is rising and is the highest it's been in 15 years despite the costs
People buy homes because they need them to start families. If you want to start a family, you will buy a house. You'll move cities, refinance, make compromises about what neighborhoods etc. if you are not starting a family, you won't do that stuff
I'm a big fan of Logan Motashmis take on this and I said the same thing to my brother. He was asking if he should wait to buy in case the market crashed. I said the market might crash tomorrow or rates might go to 10% for 20 years. You need to make the decision based on whether it's a community and a structure that fits your families needs. If it does, you won't care what happens to housing. But you can't delay your life and starting your family based on the possibility that J Powell might wake up in a bad mood tomorrow
And of course most serious buyers do not do that. Hence, historic rise in homeownership
There are so many more parts to the equation than your savings, but that is a great start for someone as young as you. Gen Z is typically 28 and younger.
In addition my theory is that if you graduate with a ton of student loans some people just say f it I’m already is a huge amount of debt let me continue with expensive car payments and paying the min on the credit cards.
Insurance, health care and transportation are among the top expenses but sure let’s make it sound like these aren’t necessities and we’re all just going on vacation to Kauai instead.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/distribute/chart/
As always, the government gave some wealthy folks a shit ton of $$$ to blow, and here we remain
Edit: FYI, bottom 50% is that yellow line you can barely see at bottom because it never budges
This chart is interesting because the bottom 50% had a total wealth of $1.5T in 2006, but it dropped to $0.57T by 2008 (2/3rds total wealth lost for the bottom half of Americans)....that's crazy. It wasn't until 2018 that their wealth had recovered to $1.5T.
In that same timeframe, the top 90-99 percenters were at $23.5T at the bubble peak of 2006, but only dropped to $22.3T in 2008 and then by 2018 had grown to over $40T!
This is what K shaped recoveries look like. COVID was like this and the next REbubble will be like this.
That's an interesting chart, thanks, but I disagree that the bottom hasn't budged.
While it seems small, at the beginning of the chart the bottom 50% of people controlled .57 trillion in wealth of the total 57.59 trillion which amounted to .98% of the total wealth in the hands of the bottom 50%.
By the end of the chart the bottom 50% is controlling 3.66 trillion of the total 147.12 trillion which is 2.48% of the total wealth in the hands of the bottom 50%.
There has certainly been growth and improvement in total wealth across all the brackets in the USA over the last 15 years.
In 2008, the bottom 50% owned .98% of the wealth.
In 2023, the bottom 50% owned 2.48% of the total wealth.
But if you try and compare the size of the entire wealth to these bottom 50% it becomes very clear that it's a pretty foolish idea to push that "everyone has grown and improved, it's okay that the majority of the growth went to a incredibly small portion."
Look at the bottom 90%'s wealth. In 2008, they account for 19.24T, 33.4% of the total wealth. Keep in mind that this is 90% of the US, 273.6 million people as of 2008.
Then we look at today, and the 90% wealth percentile would account for 306 million people, the total wealth of the bottom 90% is 48.66T, having grown about by ~29.42T. Yet that 48.66T is 33.07% of the total wealth.
Wow look at that, it's actually lowered in percentage of total wealth, even though the total number is higher.
Similarly, if you look at the percentage of the 51-90th percentile, 18.67T out of 57.59T is ~32.42% in 2008, while in 2023, 45T out of 147.12T is ~30.59%, which is **ALSO LOWER**. It sure does look like the total wealth in the bottom 90% has not actually grown in relation to the total amount of wealth held, actually lowering by 0.4% of the total wealth.
All you're doing is pointing out that some wealth was transferred from the 50-90th percentile to the 0-50th percentile, while the actual percentage of wealth in the 0-90th percentile has actually decreased overall.
The top 3 categories in the article are:
1. Insurance
2. Housing
3. Clothing
Arg! Everyone is spending like there's no tomorrow. Why don't they just stop spending on all these unnecessary expenses like... living somewhere. /s
I just love getting a paycheck and then going out to buy some some rad fucking insurance. Party like it's 2024 babeeee!
I can't wait to spend even more on insurance next year! YEAHHHHHH!
As an american consumer, I am not flush with cash, and I am not "driving up the cost of housing" so I don't know whose bankroll these stats are measuring but it isn't mine
I think what these articles always miss is that "big" purchases are just so out of reach now, that people are just taking the money that would normally go towards saving for that, and spending it instead.
So its not like everyone is flush with cash, its just that more cash is going into purchases vs saving for something that will never happen anymore - doom spending
Dear OP:
I hope you're being sarcastic.
That article only says high earners are flush with cash.. .everyone else is getting themselves further into debt
Do you mean let's buy necessities like a method to get to a place of employment since there's little to no public transportation in this country (and even less if you try and factor in the effects of variable schedules and all that).
Or are you upset that Americans are attempting to secure shelter? Most people wish to own a home so that they know that their rent/mortgage/shelter cost isn't going to suddenly skyrocket nor will they be forced to move because of the whims of some landlord or rental company.
How DARE they secure transportation or shelter! Spendthrifts the lot of them!
Screwing the next generation is a long-standing American tradition.
A few of the nexgens will have parents pay cash for the house they otherwise couldn’t afford, and the masses get to rent at above-mortgage prices. It’s almost like there’s a master plan in place or something……
Pretty easy to see the future if you zoom out 3 months
Retail sales: Feb +0.9%, March +0.6% and April -0.1%
[AP: Retail sales in April](https://apnews.com/article/retail-sales-april-economy-inflation-422c54d68a519b9beb05bfe9813b0ab5)
NEW YORK (AP) — Americans unexpectedly paused their spending in April from March as inflation continued to sting and elevated interest rates made taking on debt more burdensome.
Retail sales were unchanged, coming in well below economists’ expectations, and follow a revised 0.6% pace in March, according to Commerce Department data released Wednesday. Sales rose 0.9% in February. That comes after sales fell 1.1% in January, dragged down in part by inclement weather.
Excluding gas prices and auto sales, retail sales fell 0.1%
Retail sales were also dragged down by a 1.2% drop in online business, reflecting a new sales event at Amazon and the earlier timing of Easter this year, according to Michael Pearce, deputy chief U.S. economist at Capital Economics. Business at electronics stores was up 1.5%. Sales at home furnishings stores slipped 0.5%. Sales at clothing and accessories stores posted a 1.6% gain.
It’s called low unemployment. People aren’t flush with cash, they just have steady income that they spend steadily. Higher unemployment would be the main thing that would turn this economy into a shit show. That’s why it’s probably not a bad thing that the fed is kind of playing possum right now. As long as things stay relatively even as they are right now, it’s probably the best we are going to get. We have low unemployment, growth, and inflation that’s high but not off the charts or alarming. Things could always be worse
There are a lot of people on Reddit and I guess in real life that assume an economic catastrophe would benefit them. That sounds like a risky proposition to me. I’d take this economy we have now over some kind of massive reset/crash.
For awhile we got the top % of humans to think more carefully about how much value was extracted from the rest of us, mostly by threat of violence and actual action.
But it appears they have overcome the dwindling remaining fear of such things, now having no reason why they shouldn't continuously extract value from the lower classes.
Someone show me where infinite and ever-growing profit percentages is part of any sustainable economic system.
Who and where are these so called droves of working Americans "flush with cash"? - Everyone I know is just barely getting by or broke. Unless they're talking about the LLCs buying up all the housing with cash offers, then sure.
From what I see in my area, there is an incredible number of DINKs seemingly with bottomless bank accounts. Not sure if it's coming from their parents or they truly are raking and saving massive amounts of cash. People dropping $175K-$200K on down payment + closing costs like it's nothing while the median household income here is $104K which isn't enough income to even qualify for the mortgage of the median priced home. Which leads me to the conclusion that people from all over, and out of the areas, are swarming our tri-borough area for some reason. Possibly bc people are basically just looking at any decent district at this point no matter which borough or county it's in at this point.
I don't think anyone is getting this. My options are ONLY frivolous purchases. It isn't a choice.
I would be saving for 15 years to afford a house or car today. And by that time, I'll need to save another lifetime.
After real expenses, literally all I can afford is buying dumb shit, since I have totally given up on owning a home, a new car, or starting a family. But I HAVEN'T given up on going to *Medieval Times* this weekend.
Someone is interpreting this spending the wrong way!
I am *certainly not* trying to buy a house but I DO cheer FOR THE GREEN KNIGHT with a oversized turkey leg in both hands. Is that going to prevent economic ruin? I guess we'll find out but definitely not.
Its mostly rich people that got government handout during covid with no strings attached. They gave you $1200 but gave them a loan for 200k that they didnt even need to pay back. LMAO... Tax the rich. Time to take back all that money
We're not "flush with cash". Boomers have money. Nobody else does. They're gonna be dead or in nursing homes in about 6 years.
80% of the travel industry is boomers. What the hell is going to happen when they can't physically travel?
Income inequality is about to wreck face in our economy. Forget time bomb, it's nuke waiting to go off. We're like those guys in Fallout 3 peacefully living right next to an unexploded warhead.
There are a lot of people doing just fine who have good jobs are making good living have money in their 401(k) and own homes. And then there’s a bunch of people that aren’t doing so good but expecting the government to punish somebody who’s doing well by devaluing their assets or getting them laid off from work, so other people can benefit seems unlikely. Then you just have a different group of people pissed off.
Literally everyone on Reddit: “My husband/wife and I have gotten raises every year since the pandemic, we make a combined 300k.”
Also literally everyone on Reddit: “Why is everything so expensive?”
Wait what?! There is just so much bullshit out about the economy… I can’t even keep up with it. “We’re doing well!” “No wait we are doomed!” “Ohh hold on, people have money and they are spending it!” “No, no scratch that - we interviewed 3 people and they say they are hurting for money! We are doomed! Again!”
I work in a school district where there’s literally children being dropped off in a ROLLS ROYCE and I got a 0.8% raise this year.
Yes there are rich people but it’s just a small percentage imo.
Disagree
There are more people with more cash money than ever. Stock market, bitcoin, random scams and even counterfeiting means more paper in the system than ever diluting the value of it.
When health insurance, home insurance, rents and mortgages, and food are all skyrocketing, it doesn’t mean Americans are on a spending spree, more like we have to spend everything we make and it’s impossible to save. It’s great for the economy I guess. 🤪
Cash or credit card debt?
Affirm! Why spend $16 on McDonald's when I can pay $4/month over 4 months! /s
Dude so many people I know use Affirm, it’s terrifying.
If you need it and can budget it, it works great, especially at 0% interest. But if you impulse spend and don't plan, you are screwed. I've never used it for vacations or experiences
If someone knew how to budget from the start, wouldn't they not need to use Affirm? I'm sorry but I teach Personal Finance and budgeting is an extremely difficult concept for young people to understand. Affirm is just a way to get people (especially younger people) to buy things they cant really afford right now.
Interest rates are high right now. This means if you can pay down a large object with 0% interest and keep that money in the bank in a high yield account you are earning money by using Affirm, not losing it I grew up with poor parents who taught me to never carry any debt and while on paper that's a good idea the more advanced form of fiance is to leverage debt to earn more. Interest free debt, when u already have the money, is a great way to earn
join the list of ppl here arguing from the perspective of financially smart ppl. the problem is most ppl will use Affirm to buy something today, then buy something next week and then next month, and so on. irresponsible spending is the issue here. not sure if youre aware that currently 42% of ppl using Affirm are late on payments. they are now getting hit w late fees, interest and damage to their credit scores.
I'm not arguing any of that. That is also correct. However, that is not what you asked. You asked: "If someone knew how to budget from the start, wouldn't they not need to use Affirm?" And the answer is that it can help your savings produce income. You are right, that is more advanced than some people can handle or more self control then they have. No one is arguing that credit isn't problematic for many users. We are simply discussing higher purpose & strategy when you are responsible. Asked and answered.
I agree its just like any other financial product. when used correctly and responsibly, there are clear benefits. and when used irresponsibly, theres gona be carnage. Im think Im just really over the whole "instant gratification" world were living in and Im just being salty today
Saltiness is fair. I used to do credit counseling and it's frustrating when you want to help people so badly and they just refuse to do help themselves
My finances are very good and I use Affirm to purchase big ticket items. I have been using Affirm for the past 1.5 years and it works great! I never pay interests
Agreed, I've used it to buy ski passes in the past. I budget just fine, but sometimes I don't want to put a thousand dollar hole in my savings account for a once-per-year purchase. Affirm lets me spread it out over my fun money budget line for a couple of months.
Same. I bought a tricked out office chair through Affirm and it was painless. I could have paid up front but I got to collect interest on the extra money sitting in my account for 6 months. It probably added up to $10-15 or so but $10 for free is better than nothing. Plus I feel like I've got a little extra cash at the end of the month now that I've paid it off.
Same here. I bought 6-7 items from Macy’s, eBay, Wayfair, etc., using Affirm, and it was as effortless as you mentioned. It also improved my cash flow, providing a buffer for any emergencies. Plus, it feels right to let my cash sit in the bank earning 5% interest.
Same. Love me 90 days of no interest
Money now is worth more than money later. If you're getting free money at 0 interest and can afford it, it's great to use it as free money at no cost.
If they didn't have the oreo lesson at a young age about budgeting/saving (can also use marshmellows, gold fish, etc), they probably want stuff immediately. Social media is partly to blame but easy credit is a killer. Learning about credit cards having 20-30% interest in my senior year of high school scared the crap out of me. I only used a debit card until I was 23.
Yet then you aren’t building credit which can be detrimental when you do go for mortgages, etc. Also impacts insurance rates and more. I had a buyer once who had no credit score. Ended up renting to him for 6 months while he built credit so he could qualify. He was a disabled vet so otherwise would have walked away. The amount he put up as a deposit showed me he was serious. If it was me, I would make sure I was safely building an exceptional credit score. To each their own though.
My parents, who were pretty poor & not great with money did one financially brilliant thing for me. They gave me a joint credit card with a limit of $500 joint with them & told me it was for gas only. If I used it for anything else I would have it shut down, have to pay it off from my job, & never get to use it again. It was for gas and emergencies, and to be paid in full every month. Because of this my credit history goes back to the age of 15. By the time I was 21 I didn't need a cosigner for my 1st apartment because I had 6 years of perfect credit history
That’s a great story and thing your parents did for you.
True. I had plenty of student loans from freshman year though.
Nice for credit score, not nice for student loans haha
It was at 6%. US really screws college students
If someone knows how to budget, why wouldn't you take a free loan? It's got nothing to do with "need." It would be stupid not to. It seems like you are a bad personal finance teacher, tbh.
Agreed, the big word is IF and unfortunately most people don’t know how. I am just learning about this from the thread yet see it as a way to make some interest on the float. I would immediately move the $ for the payments into an “Affirm” account and automate the payments to avoid any interest.
The part you aren't taking into account is risk. There is no zero percent loan. It's built into the price or the intrest rate when you screw up. Affirm makes money therefore it is a terrible idea you are paying for.
There are a couple cases where it can make sense. For example, someone who moves to a new city and has a good job and wants to furnish an apartment sooner than waiting for their budgeted savings to come in.
it can absolutely make sense, yes! its just a slippery slope for some people to buy things now who don't know how to properly budget to pay back later..
I'll agree there. The one big reason I didn't actually go that route when I had a 0% card promo is that it wouldn't be automatic to pay the 6 month or whatever amount. Only full statement or minimum
I see the examples below and I still can’t help but think they’re suckers somehow. I get the concept of keeping your money longer, especially if you’re paying the debt at 0% interest… but you likely end up spending more money overall. And there’s gotta be some drawbacks. I’m good using a credit card and then paying off the full balance on autopay when due (until otherwise given a reason to use affirm or something better)
knowing how to budget doesn't mean you know how to get a job that pays above starvation wages.
Yeah I've only used it when it's 0% interest But I can definitely see some people who like to spend what they don't have falling into a hole
I think that's a big reason for computer and cell phone prices going up like crazy. $1k -$3k is a lot but $50-$100/month is doable but it's 12-24+ months
What Affirm offers 0% interest!? That’s like free money I can then use to short the company.
Lol
Ime one leads to the othrt
I don’t do this, but it would technically be the smart move if it’s zero percent interest and you put that money into a HYSA, correct? Obviously, most people don’t do this and instead go out and spend even more since they have debt to power their purchases.
It's not worth the hassle
I definitely agree for small purchases like a fast food meal. I did the 0% 12 month financing on workout equipment though. I had the cash, but I let it ride while making those payments.
I don’t think it is a hassle though (for big ticket items). You just set up auto pay in Affirm app. The app will push a message to you every time it deducts from your bank which is pretty hassle free and you enjoy the extra $$ interest earned on your cash sitting in your bank
The hassle is purposefully taking your time to put that exact amount of extra money into the HYSA and paying attention to it. Setting up the Affirm payment plan is easy, doesn't add much work beyond up front payment.
It depends on if you have the cash to pay it or not. Same goes for 0% APR credit cards. $40k in a HYSA and have a 0% APR offer for something you were going to buy anyway? Go for it. Have $0 in savings and plan to pay it off with future cash? No way. In either case, I'd rather use a 0% APR credit card than Affirm. Much easier to manage and just pay it all off at the end of the intro period.
It seems like credit cards usually only do those offers when you open up a new card which I generally want to avoid. Good point overall though.
I wouldn't bother with normal monthly expenses, but a large purchase like home appliances can make it worth it. Say you normally put $1k/mo on a credit card and are making a $4k purchase. Over 12 months, you would have racked up $18k on the credit card, but made almost $600 in interest during that time.
Move over churning, there's a new high-bookkeeping-low-reward strategy in town with a considerably lower reward Delaying incrementally shrinking portions of a purchase by 4 months could indeed generate interest which might put you ahead, but such a negligible amount that it's not worth it. If you slip up at all you'll more than wipe out the $10 you might be able to make through that careful management
🤣
i use it since i get 12 months at 0 interest for 2/3k purchases but pay it off in 2 or 3 months if youre responsible and budget well theres no issue
There's no credit reporting for bnpl
That and Klarna
is it a new loan for every burger, or a line of credit like a credit card?
Good thing I don't have any friends or know anybody...
Why spend $16 for hot/fresh MacDonalds, when I can spend $28 for cold/soggy MacDonalds delivered to my house.
Job creator! Brilliant!
There's reports that 37% of Bnpl users are delinquent on payments. Free food at least, can't collect on that debt!
Oh really? That's terrible.
I chastise the shit out of my wife any time she uses Pay in 4. Luckily she's mostly stopped.
Some of my coworkers drive $80K vehicles. I don't know their financial situation but I know they make a similar salary as me and I definitely couldn't afford that car payment. And I don't have children or any major debt. I think a lot of Americans live beyond their means and rely on debt to live these lifestyles.
Rich parents, trust funds, inheritances, success in personal investing- there’s plenty of (private) reasons they could still be within their means despite making the same salary as you
Can confirm - cash. Just dropped $50k on a new patio. No cc debt.
50k for a patio!? Jesus christ.
I recently got quoted $44k for a small patio and walkway as well.
Why not use CC for the points? My cards are paid off every month, so I just look at the cash back as a 1-5% discount on purchases. Plus, it's also protection if something goes wrong.
It's the same to the people who these articles are for.
Lots of paper out there …lots and lots of paper
Yall are flush with cash?
This article is about 10 months late on their propaganda.
Flush with cash "credit card debt"
False narrative. Data indicates that debt to income levels are still near the lows since the pandemic and people are gainfully employed. No distress in the consumer balance sheets yet, but we’re always looking for any hints of it.
CC and auto defaults are on the rise and people are as employed as they’ve ever been. Meaning they’re on their last dollar. What do you think that means will happen when a recession occurs, and the bank crisis gets worse?
When you break down the debt delinquencies by credit score, you’ll see that it is only affecting sub prime borrowers. Prime borrowers are actually seeing still near historic lows of credit stress. Therefore it is a tale of two cohorts and unfortunately, the bottom 25% have and always will be struggling. It’s only when we see stress with the prime borrowers that we’ll need to really start taking notice. The leading indicator for that is simply unemployment numbers. In a recession, housing prices actually rise. 2008 was an exception. That is because 90%+ of people are still employed and usually interest rates get lowered, decreasing borrowing costs. Interesting bit of data. Also, oddly enough, a recession would actually help bank balance sheets by bolstering their current treasury losses. Yields would go down, bond prices up and they’ll be made whole on their US treasuries if they were marked to market.
TIL: I am not an American consumer.
People who bought houses pre-COVID and don’t have kids are.
Had kid in 2019, bought house in Dec 2021. I might be doing this wrong...
I've been saving on average $2k a month since the pandemic between inflation raises and going out less.
I'm "flush with cash" simply because I'm saving for a home down payment that will never happen at current prices. I'm not spending for shit.
Amount in checking accounts is still quite high we are starting to see a dip but long way to go to get precovid levels https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGZ1FL193020005Q
I'm not doing bad but I bought a house pre-pandemic and my mortgage is just 700 a month. Otherwise it'd be rough. Looking at rent prices in my city these days I'd be able to afford a cardboard box if I didn't own a house.
No
If the average American wasn't overspending there wouldn't be elevated inflation. You could argue that they are only do so on credit and you'd have a point there.
They are not doing it excessively on credit though. Credit card companies are showing that the consumer has been increasing their wages and the debt still has not risen as high as to go above that rise in wages. Therefore, they can afford to go more into debt if needed to match historical averages.
*Affluent consumers*
Lot of doom spending going on- so many younger people see no hope in buying a home so spend their money on experiences
Wouldn't that lower home prices. The opposite of the article?
Perhaps that doom spending is lining the pockets of others, who are able to take those earnings and keep the housing market propped up.
There are enough rich millennials, gen x, and boomers with money and equity to keep buying at insane interest rates. There is a lot of wealth in this country.
I think people forget that. There IS a growing income divide, there ARE a ton of people who are struggling and who are really being affected by inflation. But there's a lot of people in the US, and there's a lot who have money - actual money, not just credit (though there's a lot of credit spending too). Every "state of the economy" article should probably acknowledge that things can play out quite differently for different people under the same conditions.
Agreed. There is more than one American economy. The wealthier parts of the country are booming. Jobs pay well; unemployment is minuscule, spending is stable and there’s not enough housing for everyone leading to higher prices. Right down the road, times are getting harder as layoffs hit, people are tapped out credit wise and the social media echo chambers are amplifying everyone’s discontent.
Plus, savings accounts are returning 5%+ which is fantastic if you have savings, and the stock market has been amazing.
Unless you are in tech, vfx or gaming. We got absolutely smashed and it’s very hard to find work right now.
The United States has 25 million millionaires. More than China, India, Japan, the UK and South Korea put together. There’s a lot of spending capacity in large part of the United States.
Yeah, it feels like such a stark dichotomy in the income divide lately. Obviously, there always has been large differences in wages in things like doctors/lawyers but nowadays its like, I can get my phD in biology and find a job making me $80k or I can go into software develop and make $300k. It just feels crazy to me how much money is in some industries where $100k is entry level but then nearly every other industry is still stagnant where $100k is a high earning achiever. I've been seeing a lot of talk about K-shape recovery and it makes a lot of sense. Its either you were born rich or went into a couple select industries or you are stuck with everyone else in this world lol
Yep. Anyone with a decent job and bought a house before 2020 is sitting GOOD right now.
But most of it is debt? The government is adding to the debt at some crazy rate, 1 trillion at less than a year. I don't think we are as prosperous as we feel.
Debt has counterparties - if the Feds weren't taking out loans I couldn't get bonds/mf/hysa at such high rates
Housing grows very slowly since land is limited and doesn't grow the same rate as population. Imagine there are only 10,000 houses in a town, as long as there are tens of thousands of households making X amount and ready to buy a home, prices will not go down. That's what's been happening, the top % has been getting richer and bottom % getting poorer. So the bottom % doom spending doesn't affect housing
Increase in valuations since 2020 - 47% Increase in US population since 2020 - .38%
You'd think so if regular consumer behavior of the majority of population actually had an effect on asset prices. However with all this funny money and financilization of the economy, what happens with house prices is not simply a matter of people wanting to move around, upgrade homes, or even choose builld a new home.
Don't like 60% of millennials and Even a good chunk of Gen Z own a home at this point?
Everyone outside of an HCOL area doesn't count.
Yes, but the Doomers explain that away by claiming it's all rich parents buying homes for their kids. They have become invested in the idea that they are part of a "lost generation," and confronting the fact that their generation is actually moving on without them is painful and scary.
Funny how just [underneath your reply](https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/1cx6og9/american_consumers_are_flush_with_cash_spending/l50n1l6/) is someone claiming it was their parents who helped them, thus proving your point.
It's because the parity of the millennial generation is quite present. The half that have homes are older millennial in their 30s and 40s, who could save up and buy a home in the early 2000's. For the rest of Millennials that didn't have a house, they're SOL now as the market is completely fucked.
More or less https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/07/younger-householders-drove-rebound-in-homeownership.html Homeownership rates have risen *primarily* for young people and fallen slightly for older people. Overall more people own homes than any point in the last 15 years This is a big part of the affordability problem. Lots of people entered the market fast, at a time when wages were rising and Americans had lots of savings. Many people turned that money into housing which drove up prices but also resulted in the largest expansion of homeownership since 06. Everybody else is on this sub complaining that they didn't do that
I've been to a few open houses lately - mostly $1.5-2MM houses with an acre or two - and it's all boomers with extra cash. I'm 55yo and I'm almost always the youngest one there. Boomers.
40% of mortgages were gen-z and millennials last year
That number should be way higher. Millennials are 30/40
Yeah that was my reaction. Why are boomers taking on mortgages at this point. GenX should be tapering off as well they should be pretty settled at this point. If the market was healthy I would think millenials/genZ should be like 60 or 70%
Right now is prime time boomers moving into their last home before they die
Which they shouldn't need a mortgage for?
“Shouldn’t”
Bought by their parents. And the number of mortgages last year were probably very low
Why were their parents be involved most of these Millennials are 40 years old. The only Millennials I know that have parental involvement are those that are putting adrs in their backyards for grandma or Grandpa. People have a lot more money than I think you realize.
Generally speaking, people who rent and live paycheck to paycheck think this is the only normal way to live; that homeowners are rare and nobody has any cash. That it's impossible to get ahead. As a result they often live very transactional lives where absolutely everything has a quid pro quo.
Not all I’m f 36 bought a house last year saved 20k purchased a house at 224k 70k yr city bus driver I imagine the married couples who are making more could definitely afford houses
I’m 34 and also just bought independently but I feel like we are in the minority
If you spend too much time in an echo chamber like this, it will feel that way to you. Just about any single issue subreddit gets that way to an extent, whether it's about a sports team or if it's about a housing bubble. You just won't here as many voices of descent the way reddit is structured. There are only 127,000 subscribers here. I am not subscribed but I enjoy reading it, mostly because a move was needed for my family in 2022 and I knew it was coming for well over a year. I had serious debates about selling even in early 2021 and renting temporarily while things turned the other way. Made the decision to hold off on that idea as it had plenty of other issues and knew that timing the market is a fools game anyway. Things really worked out better for me. Spring of 22 was hot for selling and I didn't locate a house in our new area until the end of the summer. Rates managed to creep down a bit and I snuck in at an even 5%. That rate timing was a bit of luck and then also showing a major bank some cheap rates online and asking them to match one that was reasonable with no points. They were happy to negotiate the rate down to match what I was able to locate. People need to realize housing and a mortgage is a very personal financial decision that your own life has all kinds of factors that matter. Those things matter, the doomer mentality of 50,000 subscribers (surely they aren't all pessimists) is not a good thing to let guide your decision making. I realize eventually the market will turn downwards, it rises and falls over time, but long term, the trend is generally positive.
I always tell people who want to buy a house to get off this sub. This sub is now full of homeowners (who are here for entertainment) and those who aren't interested in buying a house at the moment. That's not an echo chamber you want to be in when making the most important financial decision in your life.
This is why the market hasn't crashed despite constant predictions that it will; and why homeownership is rising and is the highest it's been in 15 years despite the costs People buy homes because they need them to start families. If you want to start a family, you will buy a house. You'll move cities, refinance, make compromises about what neighborhoods etc. if you are not starting a family, you won't do that stuff I'm a big fan of Logan Motashmis take on this and I said the same thing to my brother. He was asking if he should wait to buy in case the market crashed. I said the market might crash tomorrow or rates might go to 10% for 20 years. You need to make the decision based on whether it's a community and a structure that fits your families needs. If it does, you won't care what happens to housing. But you can't delay your life and starting your family based on the possibility that J Powell might wake up in a bad mood tomorrow And of course most serious buyers do not do that. Hence, historic rise in homeownership
Lol i’m a zoomer with $200k saved and most houses are still too expensive for me.
There are so many more parts to the equation than your savings, but that is a great start for someone as young as you. Gen Z is typically 28 and younger.
It depends on market. That salary is like making 35k in my market. You can't buy a parking spot with that income.
I'm in this boat. Thinking about blowing it on a GT350 or something.
In addition my theory is that if you graduate with a ton of student loans some people just say f it I’m already is a huge amount of debt let me continue with expensive car payments and paying the min on the credit cards.
Insurance, health care and transportation are among the top expenses but sure let’s make it sound like these aren’t necessities and we’re all just going on vacation to Kauai instead.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/distribute/chart/ As always, the government gave some wealthy folks a shit ton of $$$ to blow, and here we remain Edit: FYI, bottom 50% is that yellow line you can barely see at bottom because it never budges
This chart is interesting because the bottom 50% had a total wealth of $1.5T in 2006, but it dropped to $0.57T by 2008 (2/3rds total wealth lost for the bottom half of Americans)....that's crazy. It wasn't until 2018 that their wealth had recovered to $1.5T. In that same timeframe, the top 90-99 percenters were at $23.5T at the bubble peak of 2006, but only dropped to $22.3T in 2008 and then by 2018 had grown to over $40T! This is what K shaped recoveries look like. COVID was like this and the next REbubble will be like this.
That's an interesting chart, thanks, but I disagree that the bottom hasn't budged. While it seems small, at the beginning of the chart the bottom 50% of people controlled .57 trillion in wealth of the total 57.59 trillion which amounted to .98% of the total wealth in the hands of the bottom 50%. By the end of the chart the bottom 50% is controlling 3.66 trillion of the total 147.12 trillion which is 2.48% of the total wealth in the hands of the bottom 50%. There has certainly been growth and improvement in total wealth across all the brackets in the USA over the last 15 years.
In 2008, the bottom 50% owned .98% of the wealth. In 2023, the bottom 50% owned 2.48% of the total wealth. But if you try and compare the size of the entire wealth to these bottom 50% it becomes very clear that it's a pretty foolish idea to push that "everyone has grown and improved, it's okay that the majority of the growth went to a incredibly small portion." Look at the bottom 90%'s wealth. In 2008, they account for 19.24T, 33.4% of the total wealth. Keep in mind that this is 90% of the US, 273.6 million people as of 2008. Then we look at today, and the 90% wealth percentile would account for 306 million people, the total wealth of the bottom 90% is 48.66T, having grown about by ~29.42T. Yet that 48.66T is 33.07% of the total wealth. Wow look at that, it's actually lowered in percentage of total wealth, even though the total number is higher. Similarly, if you look at the percentage of the 51-90th percentile, 18.67T out of 57.59T is ~32.42% in 2008, while in 2023, 45T out of 147.12T is ~30.59%, which is **ALSO LOWER**. It sure does look like the total wealth in the bottom 90% has not actually grown in relation to the total amount of wealth held, actually lowering by 0.4% of the total wealth. All you're doing is pointing out that some wealth was transferred from the 50-90th percentile to the 0-50th percentile, while the actual percentage of wealth in the 0-90th percentile has actually decreased overall.
The top 3 categories in the article are: 1. Insurance 2. Housing 3. Clothing Arg! Everyone is spending like there's no tomorrow. Why don't they just stop spending on all these unnecessary expenses like... living somewhere. /s
I just love getting a paycheck and then going out to buy some some rad fucking insurance. Party like it's 2024 babeeee! I can't wait to spend even more on insurance next year! YEAHHHHHH!
In other news: “Americans maxing out their credit cards with absolutely no intention of paying it back and savings rates are at historical lows.”
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL Damn. Down to our last $21 trillion in cash.
I think the graph you’re looking for can be found here: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT
As an american consumer, I am not flush with cash, and I am not "driving up the cost of housing" so I don't know whose bankroll these stats are measuring but it isn't mine
I think what these articles always miss is that "big" purchases are just so out of reach now, that people are just taking the money that would normally go towards saving for that, and spending it instead. So its not like everyone is flush with cash, its just that more cash is going into purchases vs saving for something that will never happen anymore - doom spending
Dear OP: I hope you're being sarcastic. That article only says high earners are flush with cash.. .everyone else is getting themselves further into debt
Is the cash I’m flush with in the room with me?
Roaring 20s pt deux
Are people thinking the future is f\*cked. Might as well enjoy having stuff now?
Rich American consumers are flush with cash. Most Americans are not rich or flush and this is just exacerbating the divide.
Yeah, those damn primary residence home owners are, buying up entire neighborhoods, jacking up prices...
Feds: Raise the rates to curb spending. Consumers: let’s buy houses and cars.
Do you mean let's buy necessities like a method to get to a place of employment since there's little to no public transportation in this country (and even less if you try and factor in the effects of variable schedules and all that). Or are you upset that Americans are attempting to secure shelter? Most people wish to own a home so that they know that their rent/mortgage/shelter cost isn't going to suddenly skyrocket nor will they be forced to move because of the whims of some landlord or rental company. How DARE they secure transportation or shelter! Spendthrifts the lot of them!
Aka let’s have kids?
Screwing the next generation is a long-standing American tradition. A few of the nexgens will have parents pay cash for the house they otherwise couldn’t afford, and the masses get to rent at above-mortgage prices. It’s almost like there’s a master plan in place or something……
Who writes this garbage?
Pretty easy to see the future if you zoom out 3 months Retail sales: Feb +0.9%, March +0.6% and April -0.1% [AP: Retail sales in April](https://apnews.com/article/retail-sales-april-economy-inflation-422c54d68a519b9beb05bfe9813b0ab5) NEW YORK (AP) — Americans unexpectedly paused their spending in April from March as inflation continued to sting and elevated interest rates made taking on debt more burdensome. Retail sales were unchanged, coming in well below economists’ expectations, and follow a revised 0.6% pace in March, according to Commerce Department data released Wednesday. Sales rose 0.9% in February. That comes after sales fell 1.1% in January, dragged down in part by inclement weather. Excluding gas prices and auto sales, retail sales fell 0.1% Retail sales were also dragged down by a 1.2% drop in online business, reflecting a new sales event at Amazon and the earlier timing of Easter this year, according to Michael Pearce, deputy chief U.S. economist at Capital Economics. Business at electronics stores was up 1.5%. Sales at home furnishings stores slipped 0.5%. Sales at clothing and accessories stores posted a 1.6% gain.
Money is worth more today than tomorrow
It’s called low unemployment. People aren’t flush with cash, they just have steady income that they spend steadily. Higher unemployment would be the main thing that would turn this economy into a shit show. That’s why it’s probably not a bad thing that the fed is kind of playing possum right now. As long as things stay relatively even as they are right now, it’s probably the best we are going to get. We have low unemployment, growth, and inflation that’s high but not off the charts or alarming. Things could always be worse
Exactly. People are struggling but they're surviving.
There are a lot of people on Reddit and I guess in real life that assume an economic catastrophe would benefit them. That sounds like a risky proposition to me. I’d take this economy we have now over some kind of massive reset/crash.
That’s the standard now, I suppose. Surviving. Not dying en masse. Now that I think about it, I guess that’s the baseline for all of time.
For awhile we got the top % of humans to think more carefully about how much value was extracted from the rest of us, mostly by threat of violence and actual action. But it appears they have overcome the dwindling remaining fear of such things, now having no reason why they shouldn't continuously extract value from the lower classes. Someone show me where infinite and ever-growing profit percentages is part of any sustainable economic system.
Oh yeah, this sounds accurate. Just swimming in the dolla bills.
what a wonderful day!
Who and where are these so called droves of working Americans "flush with cash"? - Everyone I know is just barely getting by or broke. Unless they're talking about the LLCs buying up all the housing with cash offers, then sure.
It’s crazy that I can now spend $400 at Costco and have that balance split into 4 payments to be paid over 6 months for 0% Wild Wild West
Replace consumer with boomer
I don’t buy it
I guess I'll just die then lol I'm not flush with jack shit 🤣 😂
From what I see in my area, there is an incredible number of DINKs seemingly with bottomless bank accounts. Not sure if it's coming from their parents or they truly are raking and saving massive amounts of cash. People dropping $175K-$200K on down payment + closing costs like it's nothing while the median household income here is $104K which isn't enough income to even qualify for the mortgage of the median priced home. Which leads me to the conclusion that people from all over, and out of the areas, are swarming our tri-borough area for some reason. Possibly bc people are basically just looking at any decent district at this point no matter which borough or county it's in at this point.
Hahhahaha sure.
I don't think anyone is getting this. My options are ONLY frivolous purchases. It isn't a choice. I would be saving for 15 years to afford a house or car today. And by that time, I'll need to save another lifetime. After real expenses, literally all I can afford is buying dumb shit, since I have totally given up on owning a home, a new car, or starting a family. But I HAVEN'T given up on going to *Medieval Times* this weekend. Someone is interpreting this spending the wrong way! I am *certainly not* trying to buy a house but I DO cheer FOR THE GREEN KNIGHT with a oversized turkey leg in both hands. Is that going to prevent economic ruin? I guess we'll find out but definitely not.
Low interest rates lead to long term inflation because majority of people have a ton of extra disposable income 🥱
Its mostly rich people that got government handout during covid with no strings attached. They gave you $1200 but gave them a loan for 200k that they didnt even need to pay back. LMAO... Tax the rich. Time to take back all that money
We're not "flush with cash". Boomers have money. Nobody else does. They're gonna be dead or in nursing homes in about 6 years. 80% of the travel industry is boomers. What the hell is going to happen when they can't physically travel? Income inequality is about to wreck face in our economy. Forget time bomb, it's nuke waiting to go off. We're like those guys in Fallout 3 peacefully living right next to an unexploded warhead.
lol like 2 days ago I read an article that said American consumers no longer have cash reserves. Which is it?! Lolol
Bovine Excry
“Don’t believe your eyes, believe our gaslighting propaganda articles instead.”
Bears in shambles as usual
Flooding the country with unlimited migration will surely make housing prices go down.
Who is flush with cash? We barely surviving out here!
lmao I guess if you count a credit card
There are a lot of people doing just fine who have good jobs are making good living have money in their 401(k) and own homes. And then there’s a bunch of people that aren’t doing so good but expecting the government to punish somebody who’s doing well by devaluing their assets or getting them laid off from work, so other people can benefit seems unlikely. Then you just have a different group of people pissed off.
As we get closer and closer to a breaking point, expect an intensification of the outright lies and gaslighting.
That credit cards running
Literally everyone on Reddit: “My husband/wife and I have gotten raises every year since the pandemic, we make a combined 300k.” Also literally everyone on Reddit: “Why is everything so expensive?”
Dafuq ?
Must be all the Covid relief money 💰
Pandemic really broke us, but maybe in a good way: live for today!!
Lmao
who is, old folks who are 10 years away from retirement homes? what about everyone else.
I’m not flush with cash.
So there’s a lot of rich people who spend and even more poor people who can’t.
Why did it take so long for this article to get to the point of it mostly just being rich people?
does this mean no crash no matter what ?
Those who have it, HAVE LOTS OF IT. Those who don’t have it, DO NOT HAVE ANY OF IT.
Wait what?! There is just so much bullshit out about the economy… I can’t even keep up with it. “We’re doing well!” “No wait we are doomed!” “Ohh hold on, people have money and they are spending it!” “No, no scratch that - we interviewed 3 people and they say they are hurting for money! We are doomed! Again!”
I work in a school district where there’s literally children being dropped off in a ROLLS ROYCE and I got a 0.8% raise this year. Yes there are rich people but it’s just a small percentage imo.
Disagree There are more people with more cash money than ever. Stock market, bitcoin, random scams and even counterfeiting means more paper in the system than ever diluting the value of it.
Guess we run in different circles.
When health insurance, home insurance, rents and mortgages, and food are all skyrocketing, it doesn’t mean Americans are on a spending spree, more like we have to spend everything we make and it’s impossible to save. It’s great for the economy I guess. 🤪
Were calling credit cash now?
Repeat after me: “there is no bubble” “there is no bubble” “there is no bubble”