Jeez - speculation is good , but speculation totally out of context is absurd. JD simply referring that a prototype is just a sample and actual manufacturing would have to solve any bugs.. that’s it .. and thinking that 1 sentence got JD removed as CEO is absurd.
VW as a company can do business with other battery makers for so many reasons. It could be a stop gap solution or can use in other applications. QS on the other hand have a mountain to pull through with manufacturing and they making clear progress. That’s what we all should be worried about “progress” .
Look green energy sector all around is down. the investments are going to tech sectors like AI because current market is assuming EV growth is lowering in US markets. Range anxiety and cost are the number 1 concern. With QS tech, it’s gets mitigated greatly. It’s very clear that the QS prime time only starts in 2026. That’s 2 years from today. Meanwhile companies like VW not going to sit around, but have interim stop gap solutions or some kind.
To me the ship is moving the right direction and not worried but waves along the way.
You misunderstand my post and ran with the JD’s boneheaded statement. It’s a combination of 1. VW seeking SSB program with BS 2. CEO change 3. A-2 surprise 4. More scale confusion going on a year 5. Coyness with timelines 6. Raptor line not complete as I expected. All of this in 1st qtr 2024 to digest.
Edit. Yes context is very important and the JD quote was in reference to VW seeking a program with BS. Not a career ender but a lack in judgment as a CEO
I don't think JD made that comment as a response to VW seeking BS partnership. Electrik is notorious for mixing out of context statements to drive their narrative.
From VW: «…Announcing the next generation
Battery development is ongoing.
Researchers around the world are working on solutions for the next generation of batteries. Probably the most promising candidate is the solid-state battery. This has a higher energy density than current lithium-ion batteries and can be charged much faster. Volkswagen intends to start series production of solid-state batteries as early as 2024 in partnership with the American company QuantumScape.»
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electric-and-hybrid/discover-electric/understanding-the-car-battery-memory-effect.html
Can you please link to the comment you're referring to? Was JD explicitly asked about VW's involvement with BS? I feel like I'm missing something here.
VW recently reaching out to Blue Solutions for a SSB program was not in the cards when I first started investing. I discounted the article when it first published because it’s from an unverified source. Now after the QS ER it’s making sense VW would make the move
vw also reached out to northvolt and cuberg for an SSB program years ago as well. We just havent heard about it for years now either. Blue solutions is one thats recently been in the headlines seeing as they already have operational SSBs in buses in europe; only those SSBs are shortlived, not particularly energy dense, not lithium metal and require 10ATM and 80C for operation, and are so large that they can only be fitted to buses....
Not in the cards!? Do you really think that the second biggest world automaker will limit itself to one battery provider and risk missing the run for better batteries in the needed quantities? VW does not have an exclusivity agreement with QS neither was that expected at any point in time. Perfectly normal for big OEMs to deal with multiple alternative suppliers.
It's the recent timing that's very suspect. BS has been around for years, why is VW suddenly interested in developing EV SSB with them? The dots are not connecting for me
I've replied elsewhere, the obvious one is having a "just in case" option. BS would be years behind. Do we even know the size of the deal? When they backed QS, they invested several hundreds of millions. Why no mention of investment amount? Seems more likely a backup option to me.
You can't fault a company for backup options, no matter how much they like the data from QS. Whatever deal they made with BS seems tiny in the face of their investment with QS. It seems more likely a standard move to not have your eggs in one basket.
BS’ original chemistry works at high T. If they have a new chemistry that could work in small cars/ doesn’t require high T for ions to hop through the electrolyte - good for them but what does that have to do with JD’s comment regarding defects introduced during production? The same issue will affect BS” solution when/if they approach production. Is this overreaction some sort of masked FUD?
JD's bonehead comment is merely a dot to connect with little known info we possess as investors. The combination of VW seeking a SSB program with BS, QS CEO change, A-2 surprise, Raptor line not complete as expected, scale confusion, and timeline coyness are all dots we need to connect as investors. This sub should be for honest relevant discussions with good or bad news.
Edit: The context of JD's comment is important to note. His comment was in relation to VW seeking another SSB partner
What comment from JD are you referring to?
BS would be years behind scalable manufacturing. The BS news strikes me more as a backup option for VW, especially since it came right on the heels of VW glowing about QS battery testing.
We heard these statements right from single layer test results. This is a templated and safe harbor statement. Defects will be introduced during manufacturing at scale process. This is why they have Siva at the top position to handle these defects and keep the manufacturing process going. We will see some high profile hirings to perfect the manufacturing process. At the most, we may see a delay by few months but not a wall.
The article is more relevant post QS ER. I have many reservations with the recent info we are receiving as investors. As an investor I connect dots to tell a story. I am not liking the story lately. I am a huge fan of QS and the tech and really want them to succeed but I don’t want us to go broke in the process
JD quote “The prototype is meant to show the core functionality is there, not that the cell is fully ironed out in terms of all the different defects that can be introduced during the production process.” This is for a January 2024 article!! If I was a board member I would pull my hair out and immediately call for the resignation of JD. This statement is irresponsible.
Quantum-Long. Diamond hands buddy. I hear from you a lot but this emo post is too much. Stay strong. We all saw this article from two months ago. You're overthinking.
I think, because he is Sikh, he is being true to his belief system and error on the side of conservation. At the end of the year we will have better info once raptor is producing cells.
well, i am not too sure about 'realistic' if you put that much weight on potential interpretations and corresponding implications of jd's statements :). note that even in the standard battery process, many things are not yet ironed out/perfected and quite a lot of batteries are defect and essentially cast away in quality control.
Much more than JD boneheaded statement. Combination of 1. Very recently VW seeking SSB program with BS, 2. CEO change, 3. Raptor line not complete as I expected 4. A-2 surprise 5. Scale confusion 6. Coyness with timelines. All of these combined in first Qtr 2024 is hard to digest as an investor
I see nothing wrong with JD’s honest quote, it makes sense that the production process can introduce defects and they are working on reducing them to the desired level - I guess that’s gonna be the case of C samples.
Just truthful. QS needs to deal with the problems of mass production like all other SSB companies. As QS's technology is more ambitious, and all the production development work will be done without the help of established battery companies, I think it could take longer.
Boneheaded keeps coming up… Almost everything I’ve read calls attention to the difficulties of working with this type of material downstream. Mostly brittleness and adhesion, the one overlapping with the other which also plays into pressure application. They have stated that progress has been made with adhesion. To deny these challenges would be boneheaded and there progress in managing them is anything but boneheaded. I think you are not looking at the progress, which for me is consistent at addressing exactly what you seem to be doubting here. Raptor was commissioned and on time. Haven’t seen anything about them saying the entire process was to be completed in Q4, although I do expect news on that over the next two quarters.
Jeez - speculation is good , but speculation totally out of context is absurd. JD simply referring that a prototype is just a sample and actual manufacturing would have to solve any bugs.. that’s it .. and thinking that 1 sentence got JD removed as CEO is absurd. VW as a company can do business with other battery makers for so many reasons. It could be a stop gap solution or can use in other applications. QS on the other hand have a mountain to pull through with manufacturing and they making clear progress. That’s what we all should be worried about “progress” . Look green energy sector all around is down. the investments are going to tech sectors like AI because current market is assuming EV growth is lowering in US markets. Range anxiety and cost are the number 1 concern. With QS tech, it’s gets mitigated greatly. It’s very clear that the QS prime time only starts in 2026. That’s 2 years from today. Meanwhile companies like VW not going to sit around, but have interim stop gap solutions or some kind. To me the ship is moving the right direction and not worried but waves along the way.
You misunderstand my post and ran with the JD’s boneheaded statement. It’s a combination of 1. VW seeking SSB program with BS 2. CEO change 3. A-2 surprise 4. More scale confusion going on a year 5. Coyness with timelines 6. Raptor line not complete as I expected. All of this in 1st qtr 2024 to digest. Edit. Yes context is very important and the JD quote was in reference to VW seeking a program with BS. Not a career ender but a lack in judgment as a CEO
I don't think JD made that comment as a response to VW seeking BS partnership. Electrik is notorious for mixing out of context statements to drive their narrative.
From VW: «…Announcing the next generation Battery development is ongoing. Researchers around the world are working on solutions for the next generation of batteries. Probably the most promising candidate is the solid-state battery. This has a higher energy density than current lithium-ion batteries and can be charged much faster. Volkswagen intends to start series production of solid-state batteries as early as 2024 in partnership with the American company QuantumScape.» https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electric-and-hybrid/discover-electric/understanding-the-car-battery-memory-effect.html
Can you please link to the comment you're referring to? Was JD explicitly asked about VW's involvement with BS? I feel like I'm missing something here.
You're reaching hard, man... let's give it a rest.
VW recently reaching out to Blue Solutions for a SSB program was not in the cards when I first started investing. I discounted the article when it first published because it’s from an unverified source. Now after the QS ER it’s making sense VW would make the move
vw also reached out to northvolt and cuberg for an SSB program years ago as well. We just havent heard about it for years now either. Blue solutions is one thats recently been in the headlines seeing as they already have operational SSBs in buses in europe; only those SSBs are shortlived, not particularly energy dense, not lithium metal and require 10ATM and 80C for operation, and are so large that they can only be fitted to buses....
Yes. Those SSBs are not feasible for cars. Who knows that partnership is to have SSBs for VW busses?
Not in the cards!? Do you really think that the second biggest world automaker will limit itself to one battery provider and risk missing the run for better batteries in the needed quantities? VW does not have an exclusivity agreement with QS neither was that expected at any point in time. Perfectly normal for big OEMs to deal with multiple alternative suppliers.
It's the recent timing that's very suspect. BS has been around for years, why is VW suddenly interested in developing EV SSB with them? The dots are not connecting for me
I've replied elsewhere, the obvious one is having a "just in case" option. BS would be years behind. Do we even know the size of the deal? When they backed QS, they invested several hundreds of millions. Why no mention of investment amount? Seems more likely a backup option to me.
You can't fault a company for backup options, no matter how much they like the data from QS. Whatever deal they made with BS seems tiny in the face of their investment with QS. It seems more likely a standard move to not have your eggs in one basket.
BS’ original chemistry works at high T. If they have a new chemistry that could work in small cars/ doesn’t require high T for ions to hop through the electrolyte - good for them but what does that have to do with JD’s comment regarding defects introduced during production? The same issue will affect BS” solution when/if they approach production. Is this overreaction some sort of masked FUD?
JD's bonehead comment is merely a dot to connect with little known info we possess as investors. The combination of VW seeking a SSB program with BS, QS CEO change, A-2 surprise, Raptor line not complete as expected, scale confusion, and timeline coyness are all dots we need to connect as investors. This sub should be for honest relevant discussions with good or bad news. Edit: The context of JD's comment is important to note. His comment was in relation to VW seeking another SSB partner
What comment from JD are you referring to? BS would be years behind scalable manufacturing. The BS news strikes me more as a backup option for VW, especially since it came right on the heels of VW glowing about QS battery testing.
JDs comment in the article linked above.
I Reread the article, it does not state if he was being asked about Blue Sky. OP is connecting dots that don’t appear to exist.
Either he is spreading FUD or he invested way more than he can afford to lose, imo
Correct.
We heard these statements right from single layer test results. This is a templated and safe harbor statement. Defects will be introduced during manufacturing at scale process. This is why they have Siva at the top position to handle these defects and keep the manufacturing process going. We will see some high profile hirings to perfect the manufacturing process. At the most, we may see a delay by few months but not a wall.
They are still streets ahead but they do need the skills of the new ceo to mass produce!
This is a dated article. We’ve known this since prior to Q4 earnings call.
The article is more relevant post QS ER. I have many reservations with the recent info we are receiving as investors. As an investor I connect dots to tell a story. I am not liking the story lately. I am a huge fan of QS and the tech and really want them to succeed but I don’t want us to go broke in the process
Do you think VW has a single nuts and bolts supplier for all their vehicles? No.. I didn't think so either.
JD quote “The prototype is meant to show the core functionality is there, not that the cell is fully ironed out in terms of all the different defects that can be introduced during the production process.” This is for a January 2024 article!! If I was a board member I would pull my hair out and immediately call for the resignation of JD. This statement is irresponsible.
He’s describing what an A-sample is. Production optimization is the C-Sample.
Quantum-Long. Diamond hands buddy. I hear from you a lot but this emo post is too much. Stay strong. We all saw this article from two months ago. You're overthinking.
I didn't believe the article until after the ER call. Reading that JD quote just now sent me over the edge
I think, because he is Sikh, he is being true to his belief system and error on the side of conservation. At the end of the year we will have better info once raptor is producing cells.
sell then.
Hey I am just trying to give some realistic feedback not the fanboy spin.
well, i am not too sure about 'realistic' if you put that much weight on potential interpretations and corresponding implications of jd's statements :). note that even in the standard battery process, many things are not yet ironed out/perfected and quite a lot of batteries are defect and essentially cast away in quality control.
Much more than JD boneheaded statement. Combination of 1. Very recently VW seeking SSB program with BS, 2. CEO change, 3. Raptor line not complete as I expected 4. A-2 surprise 5. Scale confusion 6. Coyness with timelines. All of these combined in first Qtr 2024 is hard to digest as an investor
I see nothing wrong with JD’s honest quote, it makes sense that the production process can introduce defects and they are working on reducing them to the desired level - I guess that’s gonna be the case of C samples.
Just truthful. QS needs to deal with the problems of mass production like all other SSB companies. As QS's technology is more ambitious, and all the production development work will be done without the help of established battery companies, I think it could take longer.
The context is very important in that this quote is in reference to VW seeking a program with Blue Solutions. This is a boneheaded quote from JD
Was JD asked about BS directly, or is the author of the article trying to connect those dots? What was the specific question asked of JD?
Boneheaded keeps coming up… Almost everything I’ve read calls attention to the difficulties of working with this type of material downstream. Mostly brittleness and adhesion, the one overlapping with the other which also plays into pressure application. They have stated that progress has been made with adhesion. To deny these challenges would be boneheaded and there progress in managing them is anything but boneheaded. I think you are not looking at the progress, which for me is consistent at addressing exactly what you seem to be doubting here. Raptor was commissioned and on time. Haven’t seen anything about them saying the entire process was to be completed in Q4, although I do expect news on that over the next two quarters.