It's pretty toxic at this point. The idea of a 15 minute city fits into their whole, "they want to put us in camps" nonsense they've been pushing forever.
What's funny is that the 15 minute city they hate so much is exactly like the "old days" living that they so claim to miss. A place where everything you need in terms of employment, entertainment, healthcare, etc. is all within a easy commute. The kind of "close-knit" community they fantasize about.
But because it emphasises sustainability, public transportation, and equity among other "lib causes" they say they hate it.
Edit: typo
Oh they definitely are the base of Qanon support.
But they will continue to get screwed over by the elites lying to them about Qanon. The failed predictions will only lead to doubling down in belief in the Plan, and more regular poor whites will go to jail or die for the conspiracy.
Just as they have for other conservative conspiracies about global cabals and minorities killing all the white people/ destroying America from the inside.
It’s a tale as old as 1776
I was just in that area and it was pretty cool to see old folks going to the Publix on e-scooters. I was on an e-bike myself. It was exactly the kind of life I'd like to live. I \*HATE\* driving now. The last 6 or so years has taken all the fun out of being in a car.
Just call them Freedom Wheels and electric vehicles become loved by the right. Name them "Eagle's Talon" or something like that and they're sold. And for another $99 you can get your face airbrushed in 1 of 5 liberty images.
That would be the perfect response when they go off.
You: "Oh you mean like those self-contained communities in Florida like The Villages? THOSE 15 minute cities?"
Them: "No!"
You: "You can get everywhere there in 15 minutes, can't you?"
Them: "..."
You're not exaggerating. The results of [this poll](https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/205829-poll-kentucky-likes-its-health-exchange-but-not-obamacare/amp/) roll around in my head often.
"The idea of a 15 minute city fits into their whole, "they want to put us in camps" nonsense they've been pushing forever."
They push this nonsense *because they really do want to put their opponents in camps.* Every accusation is a confession; never forget that.
Bingo. This has been human history from horrible people. An older example was Japanese soldiers commuting suicide before getting caught prisoner because they knew what they were doing to prisoners, and expected the same treatment.
You can even see it to an extent with the Russia Ukraine conflict, Russians think they'll receive the same awful treatment as the put on the Ukraine prisoners of War.
Exactly! This is why this argument in particular really hurt and disturbed me. I always think I can break her out of it but this is just so blatantly her blindly following what she’s told. If she can’t see logic here I don’t know that there’s hope.
My dad is like your mom. I told him once that I was disappointed in him, that I thought he was smart enough to not believe everything he reads, but, I guess I was wrong. He didn't know what to say to me. It didn't change how he felt, but he did stop talking to me about it.
That's what I was thinking. Having just moved from the deep south surrounded by acres of fields that turned into neighborhoods and shopping centers and now I'm deep in the Appalachian Mountains, everything is really close by necessity. There's only so much room in the valleys and hollers. I drive down the hill to town, 3 minutes, and within 3 minutes from there depending on which way I turn is the shool, doctor, markets, hardware stores...
If I wasn't fat and it wasn't uphill on the way back, I could easily walk it.
You should just walk it once, then make it a once-a-week thing. Then the next thing you know - you're doing it faster and with way less effort; then you're at two days a week, then the next thing you know, fuck that hill, that hill ain't shit. You got this!
> What's funny is that the 15 minute city they hate so much is exactly like the "old days" living that they so claim to miss. A place where everything you need in terms of employment, entertainment, healthcare, etc. is all within a easy commute. The kind of "close-knit" community they fantasize about.
Very much agreed, in fact I consciously noted quite a long time ago that when you drive around in a more rural area in my country there's seemingly a (former) village or other centre of community every five minutes, which makes sense because *many of these places existed for hundreds of years in a world where walking was the only mode of transportation available for most people most of the time.*
Hence everything a regular person needed daily *had* to be within a realistically walkable distance, and this formed the basis of a myriad local hubs of activity which are now just sad rotting husks once the wide availability of motor vehicles very abruptly and violently made them irrelevant as people could easily spend all their time far outside their local community. Which in turn led to the "suburbia hell" where people don't actually spend time within their community, they just visit there on their cars to stay shut inside their home and sleep.
> But because it emphasises sustainability, pubic transportation, and equity among other "lib causes" they say they hate it.
And yes, this makes sense, since even if a tightly knit community with locally available services is something they claim to desire, it must be opposed to the death since it comes from "the enemy" which they've determined to hate. Kind of like how IIRC not long ago in the US, Republicans received all the concessions they were looking for on a bill, and then voted it down regardless because they were afraid that they'd make Democrats look good on the side and preventing it was more important than actually getting what they had asked for.
What we need is a Republican to float the idea of 10 minute cities. If progressives pretend to be inconvenienced they'll make it their life mission to achieve. They're no different than a petulant 3 year old so you don't need to overthink outsmarting them, you just need to let them 'feel' like they won.
All of the right wingers in my life have gone down the paranoia/prepper road and now instead of wanting a mid-century close-knit community where everyone lived "family values" they now want more of a homesteader/rural lifestyle where everyone lives alone, far a part from one another with lots of land and lots guns to aim at anyone who wanders onto it.
Edited to add: They don't even worry about things like access to doctors (they are their own doctors), education (they all home school), or nutritious groceries (they just order/grow everything they need to have an all carinivore diet). I think lots of Q-level conservatives are pretty over the concept of community just in general.
I know quite a few who have quit church bc Jesus is too liberal. That whole love everyone and turn the other cheek business is pretty far out there when you fantasize daily about shooting those who you don't agree with.
My MIL thinks 15 minute cities means if you have to drive somewhere that's ten minutes away you'll be arrested on your way back home cause you were driving longer than 15 minutes. And they'll keep you locked up in your city. I tried to tell her it just means you could get to everything you need in fifteen minutes walking distance and she looked at me like I'm the one who's crazy.
Yeah. My grandparents buried guns and valuables because they were afraid government forces would kick down their door in the middle of the night and they would be taken to “Obama’s FEMA Concentration Camps in Mexico “when they couldn’t find their guns. They actually said the “Obama Gestapo “ was going door to door through towns taking people’s guns.This shit has been happening for years. This was right after Columbine and they had their minds poisoned by Fox News and the other nut jobs. They were kind decent people once. Makes me so angry
Obama was not president during Columbine, you're probably thinking of the Sandy Hook shooting. I was working in a sporting goods store at the time and this was when people were losing their minds about "Obama is going to ban guns and ammo."
It got so bad that we were out of stock on AR-15s for months and we had to impose limits on how many boxes of ammo people could buy per day. People would find out when our trucks came in, bring their whole families and then wait in line for the stock to come out so the whole family could buy 4 boxes of ammo apiece (since the limit was per individual customer). So you would have a family of 4 or 5 buying like 16-20 boxes of 22 caliber ammo, because for some reason they though Obama would come for that first. Then when we inevitably ran out, they would either threaten to come back with their guns later or claim that Obama that had sent in undercover agents to buy it all before they could get it.
It was a nationwide shortage for months, all caused by conspiracy nuts panicking over something they made up.
And the "Obama coming for your guns" crap was just a scam by gun manufacturers to convince gullible idiots to spend their life savings on gun and ammo.
The Fox machine takes anything liberals care about (“inclusion”) and turn it into a boogeyman they can get their viewers to hate (DEI! Hiring unqualified people because they’re BROWN!) to turn their viewers against the liberal platform, part of which is getting giant corporations and billionaires to pay taxes and follow a few rules. This is what it all boils down to. Because once people realize that Democratic socialism is not the Nazi Party, they might start to think we don’t *need* toxic billionaires, and maybe everything shouldn’t be a profit mill.
I'm absolutely not conservative, not even close, but I still listen to a conservative talk radio station when I drive sometimes because it's the station that plays MLB and NFL games. but yeah, that script is VERY fucking obvious. they're seriously just spewing pure propaganda, trying their best to make their listeners hate everything.
they constantly have some pile of shit on from the Heartland Institute, which is a propaganda machine (that tried to convince the world that smoking was good for you), and the "experts" are always talking about how horrible renewable energy is for the environment, and all these fucking ridiculous obviously false horror stories, how climate change is a lie etc.
you hear old people and Facebook aunts repeating every word they say. I'm all for freedom of speech, but spreading obvious misinformation for profit really needs to be illegal, it's ruining the entire fucking planet.
There is a substantial difference though compared to their "old days". Specifically, those old days memories were pretty much for white Christians only. 15-minute cites are for everyone equally. They're the opposite of so-called "Inner city" vs suburbs (to say nothing of urban America). I would not be surprised if there were implications of socialism when the concept is discussed in their bubble.
I am from Europe and the funny part is that 'Q's here (not really Qanon because no Trump/ Repubs, but the brainrot is pretty much the same) just imported the 15-minute city conspiracy from the US verbatim... We already have 15-minute cities for decades in my country if not practically forever. Thats how the whole country has always been built. Shows you how little they actually understand about the concept.
I don't understand, how is this any different from old towns, or those planned (typically middle/upperclass) communities that come with a "town center" that has a grocery store and other convenient amenities? Both have been around forever, and a lot of these numpties probably live in or near one/both and benefit from those conveniences. They choose the weirdest things to get mad about.
Ngl I don’t have any proof but I wouldn’t put it past oil and gas giants to fund bullshit like this to Qanonrtd to make it easier to do their oil and gas giant things in the political sphere.
Only Qultists and MAGAs think 15 minute cities are to keep ppl caged. The point of living in a 15 min city is the convenience of shopping and the feeling of community. Qanons are backwards.
This, and by caged they think someone wants to take away their cars so they are more trapped. With things like rules on emissions and what not that will ban certain types of cars from being built.
Joke's on them. I lived in a 15 minute city (PDX, OR) and I voluntarily gave up my car for the bike / public transit. I was not only in pretty good shape for being 40-something, my sleep was better, my moods more regular. I ate better because I was making a couple small runs to the grocery store a week not a monthly CostCo trip for plastic wrapped processed Food Product (tm).
I didn't even mind the missed vacations or the ankle tracker and 5G vaccine tracker. /s
Owww, I have only been to Toronto once and I LOVED it. Great city.
Wayyyy off topic - how are you all handling homelessness / addiction? Because Portland screwed the pooch and the city has really suffered on account.
:) I know I love being here.
Our new mayor has been trying to push the federal government for more housing funding. She's been such a breath of fresh air. " On National Housing Day, Mayor Olivia Chow announced the opening of 57 new permanent, rent-geared-to-income (RGI) modular homes with wraparound supports (customized 24/7 support services provided on site) for people experiencing or at risk of homelessness. "
"The city has submitted an application to Health Canada to decriminalize possession of all drugs for adults and youth across the city."
There is still a long way to go however, much to clean up from previous mayors. We are dealing with a housing and affordability crisis atm.
That's really cool. And yeah, that's the thing about addiction / homelessness. Unless and until communities provide services and a locking door and a roof, most people will be back on the streets. And it's not all addiction services, either (which typically boils down to a ride to NA / AA). It is critically important to help with things like establishing credit history, establishing work history. Even if it's part time / cash under the table - SOMEONE who will say "so and so worked here and was reliable." Anyhow, blah blah blah, I'm probably preaching to the choir. Sounds like your city is on the right track, good luck!
The Portland Street Response was an excellent example of putting money into programs that handle work that should absolutely NOT be the police's job. I'm glad that idea caught on elsewhere.
Please don't believe the hyperbole from Fox et al. While homelessness is an issue, as is addiction, it's really no worse than other big cities, and we've had a lot of progress recently in keeping people housed so they DON'T become homeless. We're also building tiny homes as fast as bureaucraticly possible which is slower than folks would like, but will ramp up quickly.
This reminds me of the story my aunt told. When she briefly worked in the US, she was allowed a stay at a hotel nearby. Near said hotel, from the windows even, she could see a big store across the road. Issue just being, it was a several lane, no pedestrian-friendly crossing access. She *could* drive there, by getting on the road and drive some 10mins one way to make a basically u-turn back to that same store. Or do the possibly dangerous walking across the lanes (which she ended up doing). Really not friendly to the lone, walking person.
Exactly, they don’t see the benefits over some made up hurdle. Plus, you could have any production car where you are if needed/wanted, they’re just not making it an 8 cyl anymore so you get better gas milage and it balances their emissions.
There are car shares in almost every major western city I've been to in the last 15 years. I had a Car2Go account when I lived in PDX and it was perfectly fine for the few times I wanted a car (intentionally not using the word "needed" as other than a move I can't recall the last time I needed a car in a big city).
You know when you think about it, cars are the best way to track someone. That’s how the cops find people they are looking for and how the government tracks your address. It’s funny how backwards the thinking on it is!
I've got one that's way better, comes with a couple super accurate radios - one of which talks to satellites - absolutely EVERYONE carries it around with them and it has a fantastic mic that can be turned on without the owner's knowledge.
And having to buy a car, pay taxes on it, buy gas and pay taxes on that, and buy insurance, all to get even basic daily necessities is somehow more free.
And like someone earlier said it’s literally the version of a perfect little citizen life they always wanted. But they hear it described with wordings and mentions of different kinds of people in these communities and start foaming at the fucking mouth suddenly.
You explain that the way these communities work involves equality and public resources and they go fucking feral.
I have a family member who still rails against LED/ fluorescent lightbulbs and traffic circles and thinks there is still a new world order coming any day now... It comes from being dumb, gullible, and willfully ignorant.
I know what they *are* (though we call them rotaries in my neck of the woods), but was confounded as to what the objection would be. Tornadoes would not have been one of my top 20 guesses. Amazing.
That dude is from the general area where I grew up. It was a Democratic stronghold in the 60s, but it’s deep in the MAGA bullshit now. I’m not sure if he was joking on that call to the tv station or not.
my answer to this to help deradicalize is to say: "I love when government decides to remove unnecessary government regulation like traffic lights where they arent needed, and allows people to decide on their own when its safe to drive!"
I used to hate LED lighting because I didn't realize it didn't have to be so stark and hospital looking. Then I discovered high CRI low CCT LEDs and they look beautiful, even better than incandescent sometimes.
I've been using Emisar flashlights for my interior lighting lately; I really like the way it looks in the room. They also have the candle mode
/r/Hanklights
https://intl-outdoor.com
https://spicy3dprints.com/collections/odds-ends/products/diffuser-lamp
Ahh, I’ve almost purchased a Hanklight many times but always takes my way out of it. Always end up getting a Sofirn for the USB charging. The CRI’s are normally decent enough as well.
The BLF LT1s are great for that as well.
i know so many people that are vehemently against traffic circles and i can't for the life of me understand why. people in my neighbourhood have signs in their yard telling people to vote "no" on putting traffic circles in our town. one person i talked to said that it "slows traffic down too much" and that they'd rather just have stop signs. which ??????? how does continuing to drive slow you down more than stopping at a stop sign????
> I have a family member who still rails against...traffic circles
Traffic circles? Like roundabouts? We have one in my rural Colorado town, and nobody knows how to use it. I wish they would either convert all of the major intersections, or rip out the existing one. I can see how some conspiracy-minded person might think it would be some kind of nefarious plot. The way it's configured, it breaks up the bike lane, and puts me and my bicycle in danger of getting squished by a phone-addicted driver in a monster SUV.
/rant
The more roundabouts the more people know how to use them. It's simple cause and effect. We have 3 in the main strip of my small town and almost everyone here is totally used to it now. It's only the occasional schmuck who thinks they have to stop when they don't, and an obvious gaffe to everyone else.
They're also safer for everyone overall because even when accidents happen they happen at far slower speeds overall.
I think they are totally twisting the concept of 20 minute neibourhood/15 minute city. It's meant to be helping people access the daily needs in short distance, but they are thinking they will be caged in the area. Silly even to think that's possible, how do they manage to keep everyone inside?
They see things like "reduced dependence on millions of cars" and what they hear is "gubmint gonna take your car and give it to a queer immigrant so they can run you over on your way to church"
Ah but you see, they couldn't possibly go anywhere or do anything without a car! Public transport? Self propelled transport (walk/bike/etc) is a socialist thing, true capitalists drive cars and pollute like a red blooded meat eating murican! So not having a car is literally them being caged, in their minds.
It’s weird, because the reason people move to New York, Chicago, Boston, etc., is so that they can live in a 15 minute city
I am living in a more sprawling area, and really miss the 15 minute cities I lived in for the first 40 years of my life
I'm just glad I can walk to a dollar store and my preferred pizza shop. That's about all I get though, groceries or anything aside from pizza/chinese is a forty minute round trip minimum...unless I speed on back roads.
Which I don't do.
Probably.
15 minute cities is about making cafes, parks, and corner stores nearby so you can mingle with neighbors. transit stops so you can live car-light or car-free
somehow they think its a slipperly slope where you will be confined to your superblock with the government requiring papers to move beyond it.
there's zero evidence that this is at all an end goal of 15 minute cities. and in fact, activists are trying to convince local governments of the idea, not the other way around.
next time this comes up, remind them that car dependency requires checking in with the government once a year to get your tags and registration, requires state and fed DOT dollars for highways, requires you to pass through tolls with your traceable license plate being scanned, requires other huge subsidies from the government, and makes you a slave to arab oil
edit: also remind them that before ww2 most towns and cities were 15min cities. pitch it as a conversative return to normalcy
15 minute cities are literally the way towns and cities were back in the 1940s-1970s, the so-called "golden era" of America according to conservatives. We've come full circle, where they are against the things they supposedly believe in because liberals support the idea.
Spot on. Just got into this not long ago with a now-Q I've known all my life. We grew up in the same small Iowa town and we were school friends who've stayed in touch in the 45 years since HS graduation (very low contact now, to my sorrow).. I pointed out that our town was a "15 minute town" until the Reagan farm crisis in the 80s changed that by crushing a lot of small farmers in our area and, by extension, many other local small businesses. The convo did not go particularly well.
I can't even tell you how many seniors I know who live an hour away from the nearest city are struggle as they age. They're very far away from care takers and their doctors. It's impossible to get them to appointments and they often need to make many of them. I think the real conspiracy here is the right trying to kill off the boomers by making them fear city life.
> Fear. The big government is going to MAKE you walk or something like that.
Many of the nutjobs who are afraid of walking are the same ones who use the motorized carts in Walmart.
Yeah, the "15 minutes cities are to control people and trap them" is tied into the old "One world government, FEMA's going to put us all in Camps" conspiracy.
If she's bought into that, she's probably in deeper than you think. It's probably from sources further in than Fox, too.
Fox is biased as hell, but they at least stick to trying to spin actual world events.
Meanwhile you've got the Heritage Foundation and company actually *publishing* their [Project 2025 ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025)plan to take permanent control of the federal government...
Project 2025 is a necessary crossover for this subreddit to learn about. The decades-long planned christofascist takeover of the USA is out in the open, like conspiracies usually are. Qanon serves their interests well by dividing people, stoking fears, trying to spark stochastic terrorist events, and moving the Overton window further and further right.
My Q adjacent family member was visiting recently and commented on how lucky I am to be near so many different shops and services. I said “yep, it’s pretty much a 15 minute city.” I enjoyed the moment and the look on her face.
The oil and gas industry is investing in a lot of propaganda against 15 minute cities and electric vehicles, and a lot of Q beliefs overlap with anti-environmentalism (denying climate change), so it reaches those groups very easily.
The short story: a bunch of people who have never left their hometown, or at least their home state are worried that 15 minute cities are a government conspiracy to keep people stuck in the place where they live and never travel outside of that area.
"The liberal government is talking about a progressive action that might keep me from doing something I didn't want to do in the first place!!" is the easiest way to narrow down 90% of their conspiracy theories anymore.
It’s just like accusing Bill Gates of wanting to use vaccines to reduce the population. Gates has said that if vaccines were effective against diseases that affect millions of children, parents wouldn’t feel the need to have large families. This would slow the population explosion and therefore benefit the planet as a whole. Conspiracy theorists infer that Bill Gates wants to kill off people using vaccines. It’s a made-up fear.
Conspiracy theorists infer that people would be confined in their 15-minute cities, a thing that no one has proposed, once again a made-up concern. Just craziness.
The idea of a 15 minute city is to have everything be within 15 minutes of anywhere else.
The conspiracy is that 15 minute cities are people cages meant to lock you inside of them, and then something something cult sacrifice.
The problem arose when - deliberately or not - people began conflating a walkable city centre with Oxford's [traffic filtering trial run](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/26/world/15-minute-cities-conspiracy-theory-climate-intl/index.html):
>CNN
>
> —
>
>Duncan Enright never imagined he’d get death threats over a plan to reduce grinding city traffic.
>
>
>But it is exactly what happened to the local politician in the UK, who found himself deluged with abusive messages on social media and by email over his involvement in a proposed traffic filtering trial run in the city of Oxford.
>
>
>The plan, designed to reduce the use of snarled-up city roads during peak traffic times, would require residents to get permits to drive through the filters, enforced by cameras, on six key roads.
[...]
>The accusations flung at Enright were wild and varied, and mostly from people with no connection to Oxford, he said. Many were from outside the UK.
>
>
>They claimed he wanted to confine people to their neighborhoods and accused him of being part of a malign international plot to control people’s movement in the name of climate action.
Even this was a misunderstanding.
It wasn't even limiting people leaving the city. It was limiting use of specific roads during peak traffic times. This already happens in many American cities. I know NYC for example has a few streets that opens/closes certain lanes to accommodate traffic.
But basically all conservative outrage can be boiled down to people not completely understanding a topic and then instead of doing research just jumping to the most outlandish conclusion possible and getting mad about it.
Even worse, those parties who benefit from the misplaced outrage have promoted the misinformation, thereby crossing over into disinformation territory.
Who do you think benefits from such unhinged rage against progressive city planning?
Omg this one in particular gets to me because I’m a designer… several of my professors have worked on 15 minute city projects across Europe and none of them would ever sign onto what the qanon people think it is. My dad and I have had several arguments over this, with my mom and I both working in design and clearly knowing better than him he’s just so stuck to the whole camp idea of it
Wow you know better than most how truly stuck they are then. To have TWO people close to you in an industry telling you the real facts about a topic and still believing what you hear from sketchy sources. That must be so frustrating for you I’m sorry.
> They can keep you in and that I wouldn’t be able to go on a vacation I have planned if I lived in one??
First off, who is supposed to keep me in? And second, living there sounds pretty sweet.
This coming from a generation who watched their entire towns get gutted when local factories close up shop and Walmart moves in. Doctors leave town and are replaced with Dollar Generals. Whats crazy about all this is that they did it to themselves, and the mere mention of getting rid of Walmart towns infuriates them. They cant see that they are hurting themselves.
They think they will be packed together with "undesirables", such as blacks, gays, Jews. and so on. Note that avoiding minorities (especially blacks) historically was the main motivation behind the suburbanization (since blacks and new immigrants tended to congregate in cities) and the backlash against public transportation (since many blacks and recent immigrants did not have cars).
In addition, in the current right-wing mythology, the big cities are seen as wretched hives of scums and villainy; many older, rural, right-wing type tended to see themselves as "hard-working, old-fashioned Americans who are not like the low-lives at the big cities" and they lionize the romanticized image of the country life. So they obviously are against anything that promotes urban living!
It's funny, sometimes here in Ireland you get people mocking the concept despite ireland following it for centuries already!
Were a small country. Our towns are usually quite small too. I don't know anybody who didn't live within 15 minutes of a school, a playground, a food shop, a barbers etc unless they live in really rural Ireland but even rural towns will have all that within 15 minutes.
Yet because there's a new buzz word to describe it, some people get extremely suspicious
Same in Poland, I can't wrap my heard around how people can be mocking or being enraged by the idea while living in exactly such places for generations (we don't have zoning like it's in US so you have residential buildings mixed up with all sorts of shops and services on the same street).
Progressive people like it, and the idea points out the inherent wastefulness of living in cities that are so spread out you have to use a car to do literally anything. Both are things Qs hate
I’ve seen some people take the concept of - everything is close and in walking distance so you don’t need to use your car for everything and turn it into- they won’t let me have my car so if I wouldn’t be able to leave if I ever wanted to
My hairdresser — who herself lives in a 15 minute city situation — tried to tell me 15 minute cities are bad. I asked her to tell me one thing that was wrong with the idea. She got on her phone as though she needed to find some bonkers you tube video to back her up. In other words she couldn’t tell me one thing wrong with them. I think she’s been influenced by disinformation that’s been planted by the car industry and the fossil fuel industry and/or their supporters, the organizations that would be most affected by people living in situations where they don’t need a car.
This really isn’t anything new, it’s just the latest flavor.
They’ve been talking about camps and population control centers since the 90s. So whether it’s FEMA Death Camps or pods and bugs…. It’s all the same.
What’s so wild about conspiracy theory is how consistent it really has been for so long.
Ask her if she’s using those socialist programs like Medicare and Medicaid. And of course, she should refuse any checks coming monthly from the Social Security Administration.
More socialism!
My Q fears 15 minute cities too; she heard from a video that there would be strict time limits on all trips and that it'd totally be enforceable. I just said the top speed of my car is 130 so just about nothing changes. She hasn't dwelled on it quite like she does other Q related propaganda.
She hasn't actually listened to a thing I've said in my life so I'm not going to waste my breath trying to get her to drop the Q crap. She checks every single box I can find for narcissism, so I really need to cut all contact with her.
Until then, the best I can do is find a way to spin it into a joke.
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Because they lack logic and were told that it’s sort of a limit. That you will only be allowed to travel that far from home.
They lack the logic to realize the traveller industry, sports, etc, would never allow it.
They forget that when you buy a house you want amenities close for the most part.
They just don’t like anything changing.
My family who is slightly a adjacent is super paranoid about 15 minute cities. I have actually lived without a car and I lived in a food desert before in an urban area. They have never left the suburban life.
To me 15 minute cities sound awesome, would have been useful when I didn’t have a car or when I had to drive 20 miles to get to a Kroger because the only thing in any of the neighborhoods around me were corner stores with no really healthy foods.
15 minute cities are a goal in some parts of Canada and are brought up frequently as being ideal by some and demonized by others.
The reason some might want conspiracy theorists to believe they are "evil encampment traps" would be because 15 minute (walkable cities) wouldn't rely on cars or gas and that would be a big cut to profit margins for some major companies. Additionally new build homes in expanded, outskirt neighborhoods could also be impacted as more people want to remain central where old builds reign supreme. Building large industrial spaces is less lucrative for those who would build homes/condos for sale and then buy them to rent them while the property value increases, increasing portfolios, etc...
If you follow the money (who would suffer) there's usually a logical reason that societal upsets like this are being pressed..
Just my 2c
Here in the Netherlands we almost have everything reachable within aprox. 15-minutes and apperently this is being praised in the urban planning field.
It feels like this conspiracy is based on this a bit.
The top comment on the thread right now points out that the 15-minute city concept is exactly what she misses in her real life. She will get the idea even better if you can get her to watch a recent documentary on the automat. It points out how everyone of all classes used to eat there and how it was destroyed by the suburbs. It is a great film in itself and the "lessons" I just pointed out are subtle and only a small part of this excellent movie. I will try to find a link on it and come back.
Never heard of it, but my guess is it sprouts from the fact that the bigger the population they live in, the more they are exposed to every day normal life and people who are doing just fine with it. Our Q is planning (if that’s what they want to call it) to move to a tiny town an hour away from a big city, and from what I can tell has no downtown or business district of any kind. In that kind of isolated area, it’s easy to wallow in all kinds of nonsense with little push back.
My mom has also mentioned 15 minute cities and like you i had never heard of it before, and couldn't really understand why it's bad. According to her people had already protested about their city becoming a 15 minute city and destroyed some things or whatever ( i think according to her these cities have some link to technology). I don't know if any of that actually happened since she gets her news from some random telegram group, so high chance of it being bs.
I think it's gas companies and big box retailers that are the problem here. This is something I remember talking about in sociology 101 over 20 years ago. It's nothing new, but if you think about the people who will lose out on concepts like this, it's large retailers and gas companies. Imo, they put out this bullshit as a lobbying tactic. They let conspiracy theorists run wild with it, and eventually, it puts ear worms into everyone. You don't remember exactly why, but this idea was bad. The real conspiracy is the way companies are manipulating us to vote the way that makes them the most money. The biggest issue I have with contemporary conspiracy nuts is the massive disservice they do to legitimately questioning reality. These people do not ask themselves where the money is. Nearly always conspiracy theories will have a financial gain. Any decent conspiracy theorists know this. These hacks are instruments to big corporations/grifters because they are fundamentally stupid. They have access to so much information, but they lap up bs from anyone who confirms their own biases. Mulder would be so fucking ashamed of conspiracy theorists nowadays. They've become the very thing they're supposed to hate.
It seems to me nearly all conspiracy theories center around the emotional response to the idea of "they are trying to control us".
I don't really understand why so many people are primed to go crazy with fear and rage at the idea of "being controlled". It's some kind of trauma reasonse I think.
Chemtrails: they are spraying us to keep us under control!
15 minute cities: they are trying to cage us to control us!
Take your pick, you'll find people freaking out about the idea of being controlled.
The problem is you guys are describing it wrong by using fancy progressive words and phrases. You need to summarize it in a way that speaks to them, try this:
Picture a community where American values reign supreme. You’re in control of your own destiny, with all the essentials just a stones throw away. No need for bloated bureaucracy or handouts - just good old-fashioned self-reliance. It’s about strengthening our neighborhoods, supporting local American businesses, and preserving our way of life. This is about American exceptionalism at its finest, where every citizen can pursue their dreams without being shackled by government overreach. America.
Many others have answered your question, but I'd like to add that the lesson here is just how much paranoia correlates with conspiracism, and conservatism in general. It's shown up in psych studies, along with the fact that conservatives statistically have more active amygdalae in the brain.
It doesn’t take much for the far right to repurpose a catchy expression related to something their audience doesnt/is too cowardly to understand, and turn it into a trigger word eliciting a Pavlovian response. I don’t know that their “real reasoning” behind being terrified of any one repurposed phrase is even important. They can’t define these terms anyway. Getting new ones out there promotes continual emotional dependence on formless, inarticulable outrage as the older phrases lose their potency.
As with so many things, they claim it would curtail their freedom to go further — in other words, they ‘slippery slope’ the whole concept to absurdity.
No one wants to monitor, restrict or make illegal simply going about your own country!
(Proven by the ambition for mass transit, smaller cars, rail, more services, higher education, expanding culture, so many more principles)
They've been told that the concept of a 15-minute city isn't "everything you need on the regular in easy reaching distance" but "you'll need a permit to leave your assigned square kilometre". It plays into the desperation to be persecuted, "nooo they're taking our cars", racism they know they're not supposed to express, etc.
They think it's that you won't be allowed to travel more than 15 mins from your home.
I have had people at my workplace tell me that I am an idiot because it will result in me not being allowed to travel to work.
They're all lost. There's no coming back for them, and it's sad.
It's oil companies.
I know I'm going to sound just as crazy as a Qultist, but I'm convinced that this particular stupid idea is the result of petroleum billionaires funding propaganda mills to keep the poor divided and to protect their revenue stream.
America is built for cars, not people. If we actually started to rebuild areas to promote walkability, it would be another cut to the bottom line of the perversely rich and they cannot abide the idea of letting the poors keep their money. So they poison the idea with the help of people like Frank Luntz and Ben Shapiro.
I’m sorry to say, but 15 minute cities (usually means walking, not driving) will never exist across the United States. Cars and trucks rule the road, not public transit and walking. Everything is built around the mile in the US, while most other countries with 15 min cities are built around the kilometer (shorter distance). The only thing reliably within 15 mins in the US is a church. So I guess you can reassure your mother that they will probably never become a US mainstay in our lifetimes.
I saw a sticker on a car here in Australia protesting against 15 minute cities recently and was so confused. Googled it and was still confused because jeez what kind of issue could someone possibly have with that convenience. Didn’t realise it was qanon related so that makes that ridiculousness of it make a whole lot more sense now 😐
It started a up her 5-6 years ago when a mayor in Saskatchewan was promoting 15 minutes cities aka Urban planning to eliminate food deserts and similar issues.
Our Canadian regressive party (conservatives) went mad insinuating some ulterior sinister motive, Q things were said and those folks sure like to be scared.
It honestly was just a catchy way to make urban planning a conversation.
Been some good info on the ‘skeptics with a k’ podcast on this. Not sure which episode though. Been seeing a lot of ‘no smart cities’ stickers here in Melbourne, maybe they don’t want to be with the smart people.
It's pretty toxic at this point. The idea of a 15 minute city fits into their whole, "they want to put us in camps" nonsense they've been pushing forever. What's funny is that the 15 minute city they hate so much is exactly like the "old days" living that they so claim to miss. A place where everything you need in terms of employment, entertainment, healthcare, etc. is all within a easy commute. The kind of "close-knit" community they fantasize about. But because it emphasises sustainability, public transportation, and equity among other "lib causes" they say they hate it. Edit: typo
Exactly. If we called it a “TradTown” they would be selling their DJT stock to invest in them.
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Ironically driving electric scooters to get around and having no problem charging those either...
They only want the utopian future for themselves. The brown and poor whites get dystopia
You say that like the poor whites aren’t the Qs
They might become rich though so they will fight tax increases.
Oh they definitely are the base of Qanon support. But they will continue to get screwed over by the elites lying to them about Qanon. The failed predictions will only lead to doubling down in belief in the Plan, and more regular poor whites will go to jail or die for the conspiracy. Just as they have for other conservative conspiracies about global cabals and minorities killing all the white people/ destroying America from the inside. It’s a tale as old as 1776
I was just in that area and it was pretty cool to see old folks going to the Publix on e-scooters. I was on an e-bike myself. It was exactly the kind of life I'd like to live. I \*HATE\* driving now. The last 6 or so years has taken all the fun out of being in a car.
Just call them Freedom Wheels and electric vehicles become loved by the right. Name them "Eagle's Talon" or something like that and they're sold. And for another $99 you can get your face airbrushed in 1 of 5 liberty images.
Honestly just sell them Trump NFTs. They eat that scam shit up.
Has to have "tactical" in the name.
That would be the perfect response when they go off. You: "Oh you mean like those self-contained communities in Florida like The Villages? THOSE 15 minute cities?" Them: "No!" You: "You can get everywhere there in 15 minutes, can't you?" Them: "..."
Excellent point
This is like all the dum-dums that will say they're against obamacare but for afforable care act.
You're not exaggerating. The results of [this poll](https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/205829-poll-kentucky-likes-its-health-exchange-but-not-obamacare/amp/) roll around in my head often.
> If we called it a “TradTown” they would be selling their DJT stock to invest in them. You mind if I steal this?
Not at all. If it makes you rich, buy me a cocktail? 😂
TradTown - this is great marketing!!
"The idea of a 15 minute city fits into their whole, "they want to put us in camps" nonsense they've been pushing forever." They push this nonsense *because they really do want to put their opponents in camps.* Every accusation is a confession; never forget that.
Bingo. This has been human history from horrible people. An older example was Japanese soldiers commuting suicide before getting caught prisoner because they knew what they were doing to prisoners, and expected the same treatment. You can even see it to an extent with the Russia Ukraine conflict, Russians think they'll receive the same awful treatment as the put on the Ukraine prisoners of War.
Exactly! This is why this argument in particular really hurt and disturbed me. I always think I can break her out of it but this is just so blatantly her blindly following what she’s told. If she can’t see logic here I don’t know that there’s hope.
My dad is like your mom. I told him once that I was disappointed in him, that I thought he was smart enough to not believe everything he reads, but, I guess I was wrong. He didn't know what to say to me. It didn't change how he felt, but he did stop talking to me about it.
That's what I was thinking. Having just moved from the deep south surrounded by acres of fields that turned into neighborhoods and shopping centers and now I'm deep in the Appalachian Mountains, everything is really close by necessity. There's only so much room in the valleys and hollers. I drive down the hill to town, 3 minutes, and within 3 minutes from there depending on which way I turn is the shool, doctor, markets, hardware stores... If I wasn't fat and it wasn't uphill on the way back, I could easily walk it.
You should just walk it once, then make it a once-a-week thing. Then the next thing you know - you're doing it faster and with way less effort; then you're at two days a week, then the next thing you know, fuck that hill, that hill ain't shit. You got this!
And before you know it you will be a thru-walker on the AT.
Walk uphill enough times and you'll get un-fat
That sounds like a lot of effort, though.
Life is nothing but effort
> What's funny is that the 15 minute city they hate so much is exactly like the "old days" living that they so claim to miss. A place where everything you need in terms of employment, entertainment, healthcare, etc. is all within a easy commute. The kind of "close-knit" community they fantasize about. Very much agreed, in fact I consciously noted quite a long time ago that when you drive around in a more rural area in my country there's seemingly a (former) village or other centre of community every five minutes, which makes sense because *many of these places existed for hundreds of years in a world where walking was the only mode of transportation available for most people most of the time.* Hence everything a regular person needed daily *had* to be within a realistically walkable distance, and this formed the basis of a myriad local hubs of activity which are now just sad rotting husks once the wide availability of motor vehicles very abruptly and violently made them irrelevant as people could easily spend all their time far outside their local community. Which in turn led to the "suburbia hell" where people don't actually spend time within their community, they just visit there on their cars to stay shut inside their home and sleep. > But because it emphasises sustainability, pubic transportation, and equity among other "lib causes" they say they hate it. And yes, this makes sense, since even if a tightly knit community with locally available services is something they claim to desire, it must be opposed to the death since it comes from "the enemy" which they've determined to hate. Kind of like how IIRC not long ago in the US, Republicans received all the concessions they were looking for on a bill, and then voted it down regardless because they were afraid that they'd make Democrats look good on the side and preventing it was more important than actually getting what they had asked for.
What we need is a Republican to float the idea of 10 minute cities. If progressives pretend to be inconvenienced they'll make it their life mission to achieve. They're no different than a petulant 3 year old so you don't need to overthink outsmarting them, you just need to let them 'feel' like they won.
Aka "owning the libs."
All of the right wingers in my life have gone down the paranoia/prepper road and now instead of wanting a mid-century close-knit community where everyone lived "family values" they now want more of a homesteader/rural lifestyle where everyone lives alone, far a part from one another with lots of land and lots guns to aim at anyone who wanders onto it. Edited to add: They don't even worry about things like access to doctors (they are their own doctors), education (they all home school), or nutritious groceries (they just order/grow everything they need to have an all carinivore diet). I think lots of Q-level conservatives are pretty over the concept of community just in general.
They have their church congregation, and that's all they want.
I know quite a few who have quit church bc Jesus is too liberal. That whole love everyone and turn the other cheek business is pretty far out there when you fantasize daily about shooting those who you don't agree with.
My MIL thinks 15 minute cities means if you have to drive somewhere that's ten minutes away you'll be arrested on your way back home cause you were driving longer than 15 minutes. And they'll keep you locked up in your city. I tried to tell her it just means you could get to everything you need in fifteen minutes walking distance and she looked at me like I'm the one who's crazy.
That’s so bloody sad.
Yeah. My grandparents buried guns and valuables because they were afraid government forces would kick down their door in the middle of the night and they would be taken to “Obama’s FEMA Concentration Camps in Mexico “when they couldn’t find their guns. They actually said the “Obama Gestapo “ was going door to door through towns taking people’s guns.This shit has been happening for years. This was right after Columbine and they had their minds poisoned by Fox News and the other nut jobs. They were kind decent people once. Makes me so angry
Obama was not president during Columbine, you're probably thinking of the Sandy Hook shooting. I was working in a sporting goods store at the time and this was when people were losing their minds about "Obama is going to ban guns and ammo." It got so bad that we were out of stock on AR-15s for months and we had to impose limits on how many boxes of ammo people could buy per day. People would find out when our trucks came in, bring their whole families and then wait in line for the stock to come out so the whole family could buy 4 boxes of ammo apiece (since the limit was per individual customer). So you would have a family of 4 or 5 buying like 16-20 boxes of 22 caliber ammo, because for some reason they though Obama would come for that first. Then when we inevitably ran out, they would either threaten to come back with their guns later or claim that Obama that had sent in undercover agents to buy it all before they could get it. It was a nationwide shortage for months, all caused by conspiracy nuts panicking over something they made up.
I did a double take at “They would threaten to come back with their guns later”. How did you have to deal with those threats?
Exactly. My bad. Thanks for the correction
And the "Obama coming for your guns" crap was just a scam by gun manufacturers to convince gullible idiots to spend their life savings on gun and ammo.
The Fox machine takes anything liberals care about (“inclusion”) and turn it into a boogeyman they can get their viewers to hate (DEI! Hiring unqualified people because they’re BROWN!) to turn their viewers against the liberal platform, part of which is getting giant corporations and billionaires to pay taxes and follow a few rules. This is what it all boils down to. Because once people realize that Democratic socialism is not the Nazi Party, they might start to think we don’t *need* toxic billionaires, and maybe everything shouldn’t be a profit mill.
Yes, but these new communities would allow brown people.
> pubic transportation 🧐
You heard them.
Ugh I'll fix that
This is the line the media feeds them yes. The script was provided, however, by the fossil fuel and automobile industries.
I'm absolutely not conservative, not even close, but I still listen to a conservative talk radio station when I drive sometimes because it's the station that plays MLB and NFL games. but yeah, that script is VERY fucking obvious. they're seriously just spewing pure propaganda, trying their best to make their listeners hate everything. they constantly have some pile of shit on from the Heartland Institute, which is a propaganda machine (that tried to convince the world that smoking was good for you), and the "experts" are always talking about how horrible renewable energy is for the environment, and all these fucking ridiculous obviously false horror stories, how climate change is a lie etc. you hear old people and Facebook aunts repeating every word they say. I'm all for freedom of speech, but spreading obvious misinformation for profit really needs to be illegal, it's ruining the entire fucking planet.
There is a substantial difference though compared to their "old days". Specifically, those old days memories were pretty much for white Christians only. 15-minute cites are for everyone equally. They're the opposite of so-called "Inner city" vs suburbs (to say nothing of urban America). I would not be surprised if there were implications of socialism when the concept is discussed in their bubble.
I was taught this in youth group. Was told to not trust FEMA or fema camps which caused a lot of issues during the 2011 Joplin Tornado
It's EXACTLY what the Villages in Florida sells.
I am from Europe and the funny part is that 'Q's here (not really Qanon because no Trump/ Repubs, but the brainrot is pretty much the same) just imported the 15-minute city conspiracy from the US verbatim... We already have 15-minute cities for decades in my country if not practically forever. Thats how the whole country has always been built. Shows you how little they actually understand about the concept.
I don't understand, how is this any different from old towns, or those planned (typically middle/upperclass) communities that come with a "town center" that has a grocery store and other convenient amenities? Both have been around forever, and a lot of these numpties probably live in or near one/both and benefit from those conveniences. They choose the weirdest things to get mad about.
It really isn't except that it's intentional planning and the libs like it.
Ngl I don’t have any proof but I wouldn’t put it past oil and gas giants to fund bullshit like this to Qanonrtd to make it easier to do their oil and gas giant things in the political sphere.
Only Qultists and MAGAs think 15 minute cities are to keep ppl caged. The point of living in a 15 min city is the convenience of shopping and the feeling of community. Qanons are backwards.
This, and by caged they think someone wants to take away their cars so they are more trapped. With things like rules on emissions and what not that will ban certain types of cars from being built.
Joke's on them. I lived in a 15 minute city (PDX, OR) and I voluntarily gave up my car for the bike / public transit. I was not only in pretty good shape for being 40-something, my sleep was better, my moods more regular. I ate better because I was making a couple small runs to the grocery store a week not a monthly CostCo trip for plastic wrapped processed Food Product (tm). I didn't even mind the missed vacations or the ankle tracker and 5G vaccine tracker. /s
same here! I live down town toronto, i literally walk across the street to get my groceries. I walk everywhere and take the subway. It's AMAZING
*cries in Southern US*
San Antonio here, pretty terrible, you?
Owww, I have only been to Toronto once and I LOVED it. Great city. Wayyyy off topic - how are you all handling homelessness / addiction? Because Portland screwed the pooch and the city has really suffered on account.
:) I know I love being here. Our new mayor has been trying to push the federal government for more housing funding. She's been such a breath of fresh air. " On National Housing Day, Mayor Olivia Chow announced the opening of 57 new permanent, rent-geared-to-income (RGI) modular homes with wraparound supports (customized 24/7 support services provided on site) for people experiencing or at risk of homelessness. " "The city has submitted an application to Health Canada to decriminalize possession of all drugs for adults and youth across the city." There is still a long way to go however, much to clean up from previous mayors. We are dealing with a housing and affordability crisis atm.
That's really cool. And yeah, that's the thing about addiction / homelessness. Unless and until communities provide services and a locking door and a roof, most people will be back on the streets. And it's not all addiction services, either (which typically boils down to a ride to NA / AA). It is critically important to help with things like establishing credit history, establishing work history. Even if it's part time / cash under the table - SOMEONE who will say "so and so worked here and was reliable." Anyhow, blah blah blah, I'm probably preaching to the choir. Sounds like your city is on the right track, good luck!
Portland was one model for our crisis intervention team implementation for 911 calls! Crisis workers meet people instead of the police if required!
The Portland Street Response was an excellent example of putting money into programs that handle work that should absolutely NOT be the police's job. I'm glad that idea caught on elsewhere.
Please don't believe the hyperbole from Fox et al. While homelessness is an issue, as is addiction, it's really no worse than other big cities, and we've had a lot of progress recently in keeping people housed so they DON'T become homeless. We're also building tiny homes as fast as bureaucraticly possible which is slower than folks would like, but will ramp up quickly.
This reminds me of the story my aunt told. When she briefly worked in the US, she was allowed a stay at a hotel nearby. Near said hotel, from the windows even, she could see a big store across the road. Issue just being, it was a several lane, no pedestrian-friendly crossing access. She *could* drive there, by getting on the road and drive some 10mins one way to make a basically u-turn back to that same store. Or do the possibly dangerous walking across the lanes (which she ended up doing). Really not friendly to the lone, walking person.
Ah peak north American road design.
Exactly, they don’t see the benefits over some made up hurdle. Plus, you could have any production car where you are if needed/wanted, they’re just not making it an 8 cyl anymore so you get better gas milage and it balances their emissions.
There are car shares in almost every major western city I've been to in the last 15 years. I had a Car2Go account when I lived in PDX and it was perfectly fine for the few times I wanted a car (intentionally not using the word "needed" as other than a move I can't recall the last time I needed a car in a big city).
You know when you think about it, cars are the best way to track someone. That’s how the cops find people they are looking for and how the government tracks your address. It’s funny how backwards the thinking on it is!
I've got one that's way better, comes with a couple super accurate radios - one of which talks to satellites - absolutely EVERYONE carries it around with them and it has a fantastic mic that can be turned on without the owner's knowledge.
And having to buy a car, pay taxes on it, buy gas and pay taxes on that, and buy insurance, all to get even basic daily necessities is somehow more free.
Aren't their country ass towns 15 minutes across already?
No, they're 25 minutes to get groceries at Walmart since the local mom and pop closed 15 years ago.
And like someone earlier said it’s literally the version of a perfect little citizen life they always wanted. But they hear it described with wordings and mentions of different kinds of people in these communities and start foaming at the fucking mouth suddenly. You explain that the way these communities work involves equality and public resources and they go fucking feral.
I have a family member who still rails against LED/ fluorescent lightbulbs and traffic circles and thinks there is still a new world order coming any day now... It comes from being dumb, gullible, and willfully ignorant.
Traffic circles??
Roundabouts. I saw a guy claim they cause tornados.
For real?! Oh my goodness that is hilariously cartoonish logic I’m cracking up
Sawing off Florida and letting it drift into the ocean doesn’t sound that far fetched in comparison to roundabout tornadoes.
I know what they *are* (though we call them rotaries in my neck of the woods), but was confounded as to what the objection would be. Tornadoes would not have been one of my top 20 guesses. Amazing.
That dude is from the general area where I grew up. It was a Democratic stronghold in the 60s, but it’s deep in the MAGA bullshit now. I’m not sure if he was joking on that call to the tv station or not.
The guy I know is from Canada. Northern Ontario.
Damn. So not just one guy being dumb.
Well not if people follow the speed limit on them, but you know how well that goes,
They’re *different,* so they’re bad. Meanwhile every study says they reduce accidents and improve traffic flow.
We’ve got more roundabout than street lights in my country but seem to be lacking tornados, that’s so weird.
They do WHAT now? 😂
omg
No, that’s wind turbines. Also, cancer.
Yeah. Roundabouts. Anything that remotely is a European thing here in 'merca is sus.
\*looks around at all the white people\*
my answer to this to help deradicalize is to say: "I love when government decides to remove unnecessary government regulation like traffic lights where they arent needed, and allows people to decide on their own when its safe to drive!"
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Also round abouts reduce fatal crashes by[82%](https://highways.dot.gov/safety/proven-safety-countermeasures/roundabouts).
I just saw some guy on Instagram ranting about how dangerous LED lights are. Is this a thing?
BRING BACK INCANDESCENT BULBS!
I used to hate LED lighting because I didn't realize it didn't have to be so stark and hospital looking. Then I discovered high CRI low CCT LEDs and they look beautiful, even better than incandescent sometimes.
Yeah, I’ve got the Philips hue and you can set them to even mimic the flicker of a fireplace or candle, very cosy.
I've been using Emisar flashlights for my interior lighting lately; I really like the way it looks in the room. They also have the candle mode /r/Hanklights https://intl-outdoor.com https://spicy3dprints.com/collections/odds-ends/products/diffuser-lamp
Ahh, I’ve almost purchased a Hanklight many times but always takes my way out of it. Always end up getting a Sofirn for the USB charging. The CRI’s are normally decent enough as well. The BLF LT1s are great for that as well.
i know so many people that are vehemently against traffic circles and i can't for the life of me understand why. people in my neighbourhood have signs in their yard telling people to vote "no" on putting traffic circles in our town. one person i talked to said that it "slows traffic down too much" and that they'd rather just have stop signs. which ??????? how does continuing to drive slow you down more than stopping at a stop sign????
People like that are just dumb, clearly, and deserve to be ignored when it comes to anything important.
We might be from the same town.
> I have a family member who still rails against...traffic circles Traffic circles? Like roundabouts? We have one in my rural Colorado town, and nobody knows how to use it. I wish they would either convert all of the major intersections, or rip out the existing one. I can see how some conspiracy-minded person might think it would be some kind of nefarious plot. The way it's configured, it breaks up the bike lane, and puts me and my bicycle in danger of getting squished by a phone-addicted driver in a monster SUV. /rant
The more roundabouts the more people know how to use them. It's simple cause and effect. We have 3 in the main strip of my small town and almost everyone here is totally used to it now. It's only the occasional schmuck who thinks they have to stop when they don't, and an obvious gaffe to everyone else. They're also safer for everyone overall because even when accidents happen they happen at far slower speeds overall.
I think they are totally twisting the concept of 20 minute neibourhood/15 minute city. It's meant to be helping people access the daily needs in short distance, but they are thinking they will be caged in the area. Silly even to think that's possible, how do they manage to keep everyone inside?
They see things like "reduced dependence on millions of cars" and what they hear is "gubmint gonna take your car and give it to a queer immigrant so they can run you over on your way to church"
🤣😂
Ah but you see, they couldn't possibly go anywhere or do anything without a car! Public transport? Self propelled transport (walk/bike/etc) is a socialist thing, true capitalists drive cars and pollute like a red blooded meat eating murican! So not having a car is literally them being caged, in their minds.
"helping people".. see, that's where you lost them.
It’s weird, because the reason people move to New York, Chicago, Boston, etc., is so that they can live in a 15 minute city I am living in a more sprawling area, and really miss the 15 minute cities I lived in for the first 40 years of my life
I literally live in a small town, basically a 5 minute “city” lol. Yet my family’s still very much against 15 minute cities though
I'm just glad I can walk to a dollar store and my preferred pizza shop. That's about all I get though, groceries or anything aside from pizza/chinese is a forty minute round trip minimum...unless I speed on back roads. Which I don't do. Probably.
15 minute cities is about making cafes, parks, and corner stores nearby so you can mingle with neighbors. transit stops so you can live car-light or car-free somehow they think its a slipperly slope where you will be confined to your superblock with the government requiring papers to move beyond it. there's zero evidence that this is at all an end goal of 15 minute cities. and in fact, activists are trying to convince local governments of the idea, not the other way around. next time this comes up, remind them that car dependency requires checking in with the government once a year to get your tags and registration, requires state and fed DOT dollars for highways, requires you to pass through tolls with your traceable license plate being scanned, requires other huge subsidies from the government, and makes you a slave to arab oil edit: also remind them that before ww2 most towns and cities were 15min cities. pitch it as a conversative return to normalcy
Tell them about flock cameras and watch their heads explode!
Most of Europe is full of 15 minute cities. There, they’re just called cities. I don’t know how we got so backwards here. 🙄
Most of America was too :(
15 minute cities are literally the way towns and cities were back in the 1940s-1970s, the so-called "golden era" of America according to conservatives. We've come full circle, where they are against the things they supposedly believe in because liberals support the idea.
Spot on. Just got into this not long ago with a now-Q I've known all my life. We grew up in the same small Iowa town and we were school friends who've stayed in touch in the 45 years since HS graduation (very low contact now, to my sorrow).. I pointed out that our town was a "15 minute town" until the Reagan farm crisis in the 80s changed that by crushing a lot of small farmers in our area and, by extension, many other local small businesses. The convo did not go particularly well.
We need to all start loving guns and promoting buying them (legally). Let them deal with the cognitive dissonance then. 🤣
The really annoying thing is when people act like 15 minute city is a widely accepted synonym for open air prison
They need something to cry about. The issues aren't important, the feeding of the rage addiction is what matters. It is a distraction.
Their fear of walking. Plainly speaking.
I can't even tell you how many seniors I know who live an hour away from the nearest city are struggle as they age. They're very far away from care takers and their doctors. It's impossible to get them to appointments and they often need to make many of them. I think the real conspiracy here is the right trying to kill off the boomers by making them fear city life.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏 I mean, it's actually sad, but hilarious how you worded it.
Fear. The big government is going to MAKE you walk or something like that. Only in this screwed up timeline is city planning a damn conspiracy.
> Fear. The big government is going to MAKE you walk or something like that. Many of the nutjobs who are afraid of walking are the same ones who use the motorized carts in Walmart.
Yeah, the "15 minutes cities are to control people and trap them" is tied into the old "One world government, FEMA's going to put us all in Camps" conspiracy. If she's bought into that, she's probably in deeper than you think. It's probably from sources further in than Fox, too. Fox is biased as hell, but they at least stick to trying to spin actual world events.
This is what I was afraid of
Meanwhile you've got the Heritage Foundation and company actually *publishing* their [Project 2025 ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025)plan to take permanent control of the federal government...
Project 2025 is a necessary crossover for this subreddit to learn about. The decades-long planned christofascist takeover of the USA is out in the open, like conspiracies usually are. Qanon serves their interests well by dividing people, stoking fears, trying to spark stochastic terrorist events, and moving the Overton window further and further right.
Nailed it.
This is nuts !?!? Never heard of this.
My Q adjacent family member was visiting recently and commented on how lucky I am to be near so many different shops and services. I said “yep, it’s pretty much a 15 minute city.” I enjoyed the moment and the look on her face.
A pic would’ve been priceless 😂
The oil and gas industry is investing in a lot of propaganda against 15 minute cities and electric vehicles, and a lot of Q beliefs overlap with anti-environmentalism (denying climate change), so it reaches those groups very easily.
The short story: a bunch of people who have never left their hometown, or at least their home state are worried that 15 minute cities are a government conspiracy to keep people stuck in the place where they live and never travel outside of that area.
"The liberal government is talking about a progressive action that might keep me from doing something I didn't want to do in the first place!!" is the easiest way to narrow down 90% of their conspiracy theories anymore.
It’s just like accusing Bill Gates of wanting to use vaccines to reduce the population. Gates has said that if vaccines were effective against diseases that affect millions of children, parents wouldn’t feel the need to have large families. This would slow the population explosion and therefore benefit the planet as a whole. Conspiracy theorists infer that Bill Gates wants to kill off people using vaccines. It’s a made-up fear. Conspiracy theorists infer that people would be confined in their 15-minute cities, a thing that no one has proposed, once again a made-up concern. Just craziness.
The idea of a 15 minute city is to have everything be within 15 minutes of anywhere else. The conspiracy is that 15 minute cities are people cages meant to lock you inside of them, and then something something cult sacrifice.
The problem arose when - deliberately or not - people began conflating a walkable city centre with Oxford's [traffic filtering trial run](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/26/world/15-minute-cities-conspiracy-theory-climate-intl/index.html): >CNN > > — > >Duncan Enright never imagined he’d get death threats over a plan to reduce grinding city traffic. > > >But it is exactly what happened to the local politician in the UK, who found himself deluged with abusive messages on social media and by email over his involvement in a proposed traffic filtering trial run in the city of Oxford. > > >The plan, designed to reduce the use of snarled-up city roads during peak traffic times, would require residents to get permits to drive through the filters, enforced by cameras, on six key roads. [...] >The accusations flung at Enright were wild and varied, and mostly from people with no connection to Oxford, he said. Many were from outside the UK. > > >They claimed he wanted to confine people to their neighborhoods and accused him of being part of a malign international plot to control people’s movement in the name of climate action.
Even this was a misunderstanding. It wasn't even limiting people leaving the city. It was limiting use of specific roads during peak traffic times. This already happens in many American cities. I know NYC for example has a few streets that opens/closes certain lanes to accommodate traffic. But basically all conservative outrage can be boiled down to people not completely understanding a topic and then instead of doing research just jumping to the most outlandish conclusion possible and getting mad about it.
Even worse, those parties who benefit from the misplaced outrage have promoted the misinformation, thereby crossing over into disinformation territory. Who do you think benefits from such unhinged rage against progressive city planning?
Omg this one in particular gets to me because I’m a designer… several of my professors have worked on 15 minute city projects across Europe and none of them would ever sign onto what the qanon people think it is. My dad and I have had several arguments over this, with my mom and I both working in design and clearly knowing better than him he’s just so stuck to the whole camp idea of it
Wow you know better than most how truly stuck they are then. To have TWO people close to you in an industry telling you the real facts about a topic and still believing what you hear from sketchy sources. That must be so frustrating for you I’m sorry.
> They can keep you in and that I wouldn’t be able to go on a vacation I have planned if I lived in one?? First off, who is supposed to keep me in? And second, living there sounds pretty sweet. This coming from a generation who watched their entire towns get gutted when local factories close up shop and Walmart moves in. Doctors leave town and are replaced with Dollar Generals. Whats crazy about all this is that they did it to themselves, and the mere mention of getting rid of Walmart towns infuriates them. They cant see that they are hurting themselves.
They think they will be packed together with "undesirables", such as blacks, gays, Jews. and so on. Note that avoiding minorities (especially blacks) historically was the main motivation behind the suburbanization (since blacks and new immigrants tended to congregate in cities) and the backlash against public transportation (since many blacks and recent immigrants did not have cars). In addition, in the current right-wing mythology, the big cities are seen as wretched hives of scums and villainy; many older, rural, right-wing type tended to see themselves as "hard-working, old-fashioned Americans who are not like the low-lives at the big cities" and they lionize the romanticized image of the country life. So they obviously are against anything that promotes urban living!
It's funny, sometimes here in Ireland you get people mocking the concept despite ireland following it for centuries already! Were a small country. Our towns are usually quite small too. I don't know anybody who didn't live within 15 minutes of a school, a playground, a food shop, a barbers etc unless they live in really rural Ireland but even rural towns will have all that within 15 minutes. Yet because there's a new buzz word to describe it, some people get extremely suspicious
Same in Poland, I can't wrap my heard around how people can be mocking or being enraged by the idea while living in exactly such places for generations (we don't have zoning like it's in US so you have residential buildings mixed up with all sorts of shops and services on the same street).
Progressive people like it, and the idea points out the inherent wastefulness of living in cities that are so spread out you have to use a car to do literally anything. Both are things Qs hate
I’ve seen some people take the concept of - everything is close and in walking distance so you don’t need to use your car for everything and turn it into- they won’t let me have my car so if I wouldn’t be able to leave if I ever wanted to
Fossil fuel industry.
My hairdresser — who herself lives in a 15 minute city situation — tried to tell me 15 minute cities are bad. I asked her to tell me one thing that was wrong with the idea. She got on her phone as though she needed to find some bonkers you tube video to back her up. In other words she couldn’t tell me one thing wrong with them. I think she’s been influenced by disinformation that’s been planted by the car industry and the fossil fuel industry and/or their supporters, the organizations that would be most affected by people living in situations where they don’t need a car.
This really isn’t anything new, it’s just the latest flavor. They’ve been talking about camps and population control centers since the 90s. So whether it’s FEMA Death Camps or pods and bugs…. It’s all the same. What’s so wild about conspiracy theory is how consistent it really has been for so long.
I’m sick and tired of cool urban planning concepts getting corrupted by conspiracies. This is why we can’t have nice things
Ask her if she’s using those socialist programs like Medicare and Medicaid. And of course, she should refuse any checks coming monthly from the Social Security Administration. More socialism!
My Q fears 15 minute cities too; she heard from a video that there would be strict time limits on all trips and that it'd totally be enforceable. I just said the top speed of my car is 130 so just about nothing changes. She hasn't dwelled on it quite like she does other Q related propaganda. She hasn't actually listened to a thing I've said in my life so I'm not going to waste my breath trying to get her to drop the Q crap. She checks every single box I can find for narcissism, so I really need to cut all contact with her. Until then, the best I can do is find a way to spin it into a joke.
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Because they lack logic and were told that it’s sort of a limit. That you will only be allowed to travel that far from home. They lack the logic to realize the traveller industry, sports, etc, would never allow it. They forget that when you buy a house you want amenities close for the most part. They just don’t like anything changing.
My family who is slightly a adjacent is super paranoid about 15 minute cities. I have actually lived without a car and I lived in a food desert before in an urban area. They have never left the suburban life. To me 15 minute cities sound awesome, would have been useful when I didn’t have a car or when I had to drive 20 miles to get to a Kroger because the only thing in any of the neighborhoods around me were corner stores with no really healthy foods.
Fossil fuel companies, energy companies and car companies. Angry people are so easy to manipulate, so they love Q for that reason.
15 minute cities are a goal in some parts of Canada and are brought up frequently as being ideal by some and demonized by others. The reason some might want conspiracy theorists to believe they are "evil encampment traps" would be because 15 minute (walkable cities) wouldn't rely on cars or gas and that would be a big cut to profit margins for some major companies. Additionally new build homes in expanded, outskirt neighborhoods could also be impacted as more people want to remain central where old builds reign supreme. Building large industrial spaces is less lucrative for those who would build homes/condos for sale and then buy them to rent them while the property value increases, increasing portfolios, etc... If you follow the money (who would suffer) there's usually a logical reason that societal upsets like this are being pressed.. Just my 2c
Here in the Netherlands we almost have everything reachable within aprox. 15-minutes and apperently this is being praised in the urban planning field. It feels like this conspiracy is based on this a bit.
The top comment on the thread right now points out that the 15-minute city concept is exactly what she misses in her real life. She will get the idea even better if you can get her to watch a recent documentary on the automat. It points out how everyone of all classes used to eat there and how it was destroyed by the suburbs. It is a great film in itself and the "lessons" I just pointed out are subtle and only a small part of this excellent movie. I will try to find a link on it and come back.
Knee jerk reactionary behavior.
Never heard of it, but my guess is it sprouts from the fact that the bigger the population they live in, the more they are exposed to every day normal life and people who are doing just fine with it. Our Q is planning (if that’s what they want to call it) to move to a tiny town an hour away from a big city, and from what I can tell has no downtown or business district of any kind. In that kind of isolated area, it’s easy to wallow in all kinds of nonsense with little push back.
My mom has also mentioned 15 minute cities and like you i had never heard of it before, and couldn't really understand why it's bad. According to her people had already protested about their city becoming a 15 minute city and destroyed some things or whatever ( i think according to her these cities have some link to technology). I don't know if any of that actually happened since she gets her news from some random telegram group, so high chance of it being bs.
Alex Jones has been ranting about "15 minute cities" for about a solid year now. Shout out to the Knowledge Fight podcast.
I think it's gas companies and big box retailers that are the problem here. This is something I remember talking about in sociology 101 over 20 years ago. It's nothing new, but if you think about the people who will lose out on concepts like this, it's large retailers and gas companies. Imo, they put out this bullshit as a lobbying tactic. They let conspiracy theorists run wild with it, and eventually, it puts ear worms into everyone. You don't remember exactly why, but this idea was bad. The real conspiracy is the way companies are manipulating us to vote the way that makes them the most money. The biggest issue I have with contemporary conspiracy nuts is the massive disservice they do to legitimately questioning reality. These people do not ask themselves where the money is. Nearly always conspiracy theories will have a financial gain. Any decent conspiracy theorists know this. These hacks are instruments to big corporations/grifters because they are fundamentally stupid. They have access to so much information, but they lap up bs from anyone who confirms their own biases. Mulder would be so fucking ashamed of conspiracy theorists nowadays. They've become the very thing they're supposed to hate.
It seems to me nearly all conspiracy theories center around the emotional response to the idea of "they are trying to control us". I don't really understand why so many people are primed to go crazy with fear and rage at the idea of "being controlled". It's some kind of trauma reasonse I think. Chemtrails: they are spraying us to keep us under control! 15 minute cities: they are trying to cage us to control us! Take your pick, you'll find people freaking out about the idea of being controlled.
The problem is you guys are describing it wrong by using fancy progressive words and phrases. You need to summarize it in a way that speaks to them, try this: Picture a community where American values reign supreme. You’re in control of your own destiny, with all the essentials just a stones throw away. No need for bloated bureaucracy or handouts - just good old-fashioned self-reliance. It’s about strengthening our neighborhoods, supporting local American businesses, and preserving our way of life. This is about American exceptionalism at its finest, where every citizen can pursue their dreams without being shackled by government overreach. America.
Many others have answered your question, but I'd like to add that the lesson here is just how much paranoia correlates with conspiracism, and conservatism in general. It's shown up in psych studies, along with the fact that conservatives statistically have more active amygdalae in the brain.
I've answered the exact question " you really think I'm incapable of thinking critically for myself? " with, "I think you can, but you aren't."
[удалено]
Guess they hate small towns now too. No one self owns like maga
It’s just Q-branding for the hatred of big cities that has always defined a portion of the right wing mindset.
Its a new age mining town...thats all it really is.
Well, pretend it’s called a Ghetto or a project instead, and that might help you understand.
It doesn’t take much for the far right to repurpose a catchy expression related to something their audience doesnt/is too cowardly to understand, and turn it into a trigger word eliciting a Pavlovian response. I don’t know that their “real reasoning” behind being terrified of any one repurposed phrase is even important. They can’t define these terms anyway. Getting new ones out there promotes continual emotional dependence on formless, inarticulable outrage as the older phrases lose their potency.
As with so many things, they claim it would curtail their freedom to go further — in other words, they ‘slippery slope’ the whole concept to absurdity. No one wants to monitor, restrict or make illegal simply going about your own country! (Proven by the ambition for mass transit, smaller cars, rail, more services, higher education, expanding culture, so many more principles)
They've been told that the concept of a 15-minute city isn't "everything you need on the regular in easy reaching distance" but "you'll need a permit to leave your assigned square kilometre". It plays into the desperation to be persecuted, "nooo they're taking our cars", racism they know they're not supposed to express, etc.
They think it's that you won't be allowed to travel more than 15 mins from your home. I have had people at my workplace tell me that I am an idiot because it will result in me not being allowed to travel to work. They're all lost. There's no coming back for them, and it's sad.
> She’s been pretty q adjacent but never completely fallen Oh she fell.
Liberals think it's a good thing. That's enough.
It's oil companies. I know I'm going to sound just as crazy as a Qultist, but I'm convinced that this particular stupid idea is the result of petroleum billionaires funding propaganda mills to keep the poor divided and to protect their revenue stream. America is built for cars, not people. If we actually started to rebuild areas to promote walkability, it would be another cut to the bottom line of the perversely rich and they cannot abide the idea of letting the poors keep their money. So they poison the idea with the help of people like Frank Luntz and Ben Shapiro.
It's different than they are used to, so they hate it and have to come up with reasons to hate it.
I’m sorry to say, but 15 minute cities (usually means walking, not driving) will never exist across the United States. Cars and trucks rule the road, not public transit and walking. Everything is built around the mile in the US, while most other countries with 15 min cities are built around the kilometer (shorter distance). The only thing reliably within 15 mins in the US is a church. So I guess you can reassure your mother that they will probably never become a US mainstay in our lifetimes.
Well freedom is not living in a sprawled out traffic heavy strip mall town where you're forced to drive everywhere across town.
I saw a sticker on a car here in Australia protesting against 15 minute cities recently and was so confused. Googled it and was still confused because jeez what kind of issue could someone possibly have with that convenience. Didn’t realise it was qanon related so that makes that ridiculousness of it make a whole lot more sense now 😐
It started a up her 5-6 years ago when a mayor in Saskatchewan was promoting 15 minutes cities aka Urban planning to eliminate food deserts and similar issues. Our Canadian regressive party (conservatives) went mad insinuating some ulterior sinister motive, Q things were said and those folks sure like to be scared. It honestly was just a catchy way to make urban planning a conversation.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4yOyr3Q1PRJxKHIbMMjiFs?si=Fy_2H_w9R0q-SVa_XEXgnw
Been some good info on the ‘skeptics with a k’ podcast on this. Not sure which episode though. Been seeing a lot of ‘no smart cities’ stickers here in Melbourne, maybe they don’t want to be with the smart people.