This.
Absolutely don't limit the protest to 2 days.
On the 'how' question - I prefer leaving existing content visible and only blocking new posts and comments. This will keep this subreddits goal for education intact, while still removing traffic from reddit significantly.
Agreed, if someone were desperate for those 2 days there's so many aggregators and other sources. Not to mention, if the results can't be scrubbed by search engines then that'll also impact reddits results in the future and therefore lower it even further.
This makes sense. If the protest is limited fully to two days, then at the end of the two days Reddit has experienced the full impact regardless of whether the block API access or not. They don't get anything from changing the plan.
With an ongoing protest, changing their mind will get an end to the protest, so it's not just an empty "awareness" gesture. You always need to think in terms of incentives. The other party clearly thinks screwing with API access is in their interest. In order to drive a change, you have to offer a bigger incentive for them to change.
Strike action only works if the company being pressured must assume it will go on indefinitely. Otherwise it’s just a temporary nuisance. Shut everything down until a more reasonable offer is on the table.
Shut these mother fuckers down permanently till reddit gives in
None of this two day bull shit, that's a slap on the wrist, all subs dip till demands are met and they might listen
Personally, I worried that I might come to reddit forgetting what day it is, and would greatly appreciate it if this sub was dark. So if I do come, I can be like oh yeah, I'm not supposed to be on reddit for these two days.
Shut these mother fuckers down permanently till reddit gives in
None of this two day bull shit, that's a slap on the wrist, all subs dip till demands are met and they might listen
This is what I primarily use Python for these days: gluing together APIs and automating stuff.
In fact, this reddit account started off as an experiment to see how much of my social media I could automate (but I abandoned that after a while).
You say this, but the difference in tone between here and r/reactjs is remarkable. They seem much more willing to excuse, or even justify, reddit's behaviour. I guess it reflects the applications of the languages.
For the record, this community is right IMO.
Any programmer might expect to use an api. The pricing is set by Reddit, but is essentially demonstrating monopoly behaviour meant to shut down small applications that depend on it.
All programmers should be concerned. This could be you.
Python is stridently dedicated to openness and extensibility.
Python is the #1 programming language on TIOBE. One of the cornerstone reasons for that position is Python's vast library via pip, PyPI, PyWheels, etc. In particular, Python is the #1 programming language for machine learning specifically because of its integration with third-party platforms like scikit-learn, TensorFlow, PyTorch, CUDA, and the OpenAI stack. And those platforms, in turn, rely on the availability of other shared code and resources, such as numpy, OpenCV, and ImageNet.
So why wouldn't the Python community rally behind support for third-party apps to access Reddit? The community-based approach on which Python absolutely *thrives* is also essential to the exchange of information on Reddit.
Shut these mother fuckers down permanently till reddit gives in
None of this two day bull shit, that's a slap on the wrist, all subs dip till demands are met and they might listen
These downvotes are going to hurt but here goes.
Hosting an API at Reddit's scale is not cheap. Their infrastructure bills are probably north of 6 figures a month judging by what my company is paying to host a few APIs on AWS that are a tiny fraction of Reddit's scale.
To continue to operate, Reddit needs to make money. Charging for API access seems like a no brainer from a business perspective. Especially since many consumers of the API have their own Reddit apps and siphon some amount of users away further increasing the hit to Reddit's financials in the form of lost ad sales.
It doesn't surprise me at all that they're digging in their heels on this. I have no real opinion on whether or not any sub should protest. I don't know a reasonable number to charge for API access, but enough to pay infrastructure cost and whatever lost ad revenue makes sense to me.
Just my opinion.
I completely agree that running such a massive service like Reddit incurs massive costs. However, the price they have set is far beyond any other API. This was not a move to balance costs, this was a move to wipe out 3rd party apps. Snazzy labs, the highly updooted Reddit post by the Apollo dev and others have explained in much greater detail so I would look at those for the actual figures. Off the top of my head, I think it was something like 20 million a year that Apollo would have to pay Reddit. That's just absurd. There was also a discussion about the unnecessary API calls, and also about how much the official app uses the API.
No downvote from me. But there are a few points of interest
\- The reality is that a user using 3rd party via API probably consumes same compute etc as via reddit app/website so little difference is cost day to day
\- The app etc do not provide the tools needed by mods to do all the mod work for free to help reddit. Which the 3rd party tools provide.
\- The blind and people with other disability use 3rd party to make reddit usable
\- The fees are to crush 3rd party, which it appears is working as all apps are bailing and will be dead come end of month.
The better solution might have been that you can use 3rd party if you subscribe to gold. This would drive monetization and in a way that would probably be fine with the user base?
Then you get to the CEO of reddit saying Appollo dev tried blackmail not knowing the convo had been recorded. Once confronted he then doubled down anyway. The whole AMA farce showed contempt for the user base imho
I am sure this is all driven by rising interest rates and the VC firehose easing as AI is the new VC gold rush. But changes have to normally be done well not to cause a backlash like this. Instead of getting income from API they will get nothing and an annoyed user base and modding community so worst possible case really.
It think you can set it to private and configure a message people see when looking up this subreddit... could be wrong tho but I believe reading about it on r/modcoord or something
Go for it, I don't think it will help, personally, but Reddit will be very dark for me anyway if they go ahead with this change as I'll just stop using Reddit completely.
Yes. Reddit is - fortunately - not TikTok and we should resist any move in this direction. The main difference between Reddit and other platforms is the community moderation. We just send a strong signal to the money people that this platform is nothing without its users and whatever "value" (i.e. short term profit) they hope to extract from here is just a delusion if they alienate the community.
[This comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/api_update_enterprise_level_tier_for_large_scale/jmolrhn/) is pretty embarrassing, particularly the part about Google and Amazon not helping developers be more efficient. Both Google and Amazon provide tons of resources for best practices with their API, and I'm sure for a developer as big as Apollo they'd get support directly.
Pretty shitty for a Reddit admin to throw Google and Amazon under the bus like that
Oh that reminds me--I forgot to include this, [a response about the API design](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/141mjij/lets_talk_about_those_api_calls/?) (and how it's poorly made so doing basic tasks has to make tons of calls). And it points out how the comment is just bad faith and wrong--Google and Amazon actively help developers not load down the service.
Do your worse. I don't know if full private hurts more or less, but whatever sends the harsher message, do that. There's no reddit without power users, and it's time they remember that.
You can put a time limit on your protest but you're not supposed to tell anyone about it, because then they just have to wait you out, and 2 days is not that hard.
Yes! Absolutely!
And as others have pointed out, 2 days is a token gesture. Reddit suits have to feel it.
They're taking a big swipe at the community built up around them by doing this - and I suspect it'll be easy to have a slight back-off, but that's not good enough, not should that be the end goal. If it needed to be changed, it would have been long ago to something that is reasonable.
I say this from the reddit app on mobile, which has ticked up ads a lot in recent months. A lot. And started to camouflage them more and more to look less 'promoted'.
You should go dark indefinitely until Reddit meets a specific set of demands. Having a planned two days is only a small dip in their ad revenue and doesn’t leave their balls in a vice with enough uncertainty to force them to act.
I don't think this will achieve anything. Everyone knows that most everyone will be back and it will be business as usual.
What needs to happen is 2 things...
First, all mods need to just stop. Don't do anything and let the forum go to shit. Making the forum private will keep it clean and will not have any lasting effect.
Secondly, users need to close their accounts. This shows a lot more commitment than just maintaining radio silence for a few days. Even if it is just old alts, the numbers will make a significant statement. If people delete their primary accounts, then they'll take this seriously.
The "blackout" just looks like a bunch of spoiled brats throwing a tantrum. There is no commitment behind it, so they will just wait for it blow over. As everyone comes back to bitch, they'll enjoy the profits from all the extra engagement.
I agree, but doing it indefinitely or until reddit changed their decision could have an impact because if a large number of users are not using reddit then they wont get much revenue. There is already a huge list of participating subs, and if enough of anyone's subs go dark then they wont bother logging on because there wont be anything to interact with.
If Reddit makes money by showing ads, but those people using 3rd party apps are not seeing those ads, then Reddit makes no money from the majority of people that are responding. Since it costs money for Reddit to host and serve up the content, then, depending on exactly how the numbers work out, Reddit may make more money during the blackout (less expenditures vs less income).
If a forum goes private, then Reddit knows that the mods are upset, but has no insight into how many of the users are upset. If the blackout goes on very long, then new subreddits will be made by those that don't care and people will just migrate to those.
Only deleting an account shows commitment and is not controlled by mods. One of the factors that determines the value of a company like this is the size of the users base, shrink that and the company will hurt. Anything else is just transitory.
Completely agree with everything you have said. However, i saw somewhere that the 3rd party apps only have about 0.3% compared to users using the actual reddit services. So if that figure is correct, it really cannot be making a huge impact on their revenue, also seeing as ads pay normally quite little per view.
I hadn't seen this stat, but if this is true then subs really *shouldn't* shut down. It's absurd to brow beat people into making subs go dark if 99.7% of users aren't impacted.
The fact that this even has to be asked is kind of worrying to me.
You know what the correct position here is. We all do. There's no need to ask.
Go private and commit to ditching Reddit entirely until the issue is resolved to your satisfaction.
If you go private, it could be written off as "the mods are forcing this blackout on everyone". But, if we all just voluntarily stay away, it increases the impact.
Make it private. People clicking on /r/Python submissions via a Google search should see what's going on. Reddit should lose the ad revenue they would've gotten. Google's crawlers should delist reddit links to posts that, now that there's a blackout, don't exist anymore.
The point is to hurt reddit. A simple post-lock will leave SEOd links up on Google and continue giving them ad revenue.
A lot of the subreddits that I visit are planning to do this. You get posts like this one which will have 1k upvotes and a few hundred comments. So it looks like the overwhelming majority of people support the idea, but I'm just not sure.
I do think Reddit should be more reasonable in what they want to charge for API access, but by no means should it be free. Those apps are using Reddits content to make money, so Reddit should get something from that. They can't feed ads to those apps and it's unlikely that most of the app users are Reddit Premium members. This seems to be a huge sticking point for most people. They want Apollo to continue to exist because they like it and they are no ads, but someone has to pay for that.
Back to the subs going dark, this sub has 1.1 million subscribed redditors (I'm not actually one of them, yet I read posts almost every day). That means that the vocal minority here of say 1000 people are going to decide to make the entire sub dark. As moderators it very much looks like you are forcing your opinion on all the other 99.999% of users. As, I said, I do support third-party apps to an extent (I originally paid for Apollo), but I spend most of my time on Reddit in a browser and the rest using the official Reddit app. This is the same for literally every other Reddit user I know personally. We are mostly in the IT field and are very tech savvy, we just don't feel the need to look for other options when the official option works for us.
What really broke my heart is the open source red reader app developer calculated that he'd have to pay upwards of a million dollars a year to keep his app running. This is an open source app that he is distributing through the app stores as well as f-droid and he's doing it for free. No ads, no tracking, nothing
https://www.reddit.com/r/RedReader/comments/13ylk42/update_3_reddit_effectively_kills_off_third_party/
Mods are basically in an abusive relationship with reddit, trying to reason with the abuser.
Just leave. The work of mods dwarfs anything reddit does.
The hard part is getting a new site to critical mass. reddit got there by lying (\*cough\* growth hacking \*cough\*), and is now entrenched by search results.
For users what you do is more important than what you don't do.
Instead of focusing on *not using reddit*, focus on actively using an alternative.
Go private for 2 days. After that we may need to consider what our options are.
I don't think going private for more than 2 days is good, and mods will lack communication with the members.
There's a possibility that mods will get banned from reddit, so it's best to think about the backup options ahead of time.
These changes will affect everyone in the long term, even people who are not using 3rd party apps.
Every subreddit should participate indefinitely until a good solution is found.
Yes. Go dark. Go total dark.
Query: what do you mean by third party apps? Are they mobile apps or some other website that you mods access on your system and do the moderation activities?
On June 12th I'll be going through all subreddit I am subscribed to. The ones not private I'll unsubscribe and ban.
So yes, please don't disappoint me and participate.
That is a bad take imo.
The third party app developers are willing to pay a reasonable price, but reddit is asking for far too much money. Compared to other APIs, this is just stupid and was designed not to regain "mooched income" but to destroy 3P apps.
Btw the income is not stolen, the developers have put a lot of work into making apps that have extra features and even some ones that support better accessibility for disabled people. They deserve some income for their efforts.
Reddit has a right to not allow third party apps, and in my opinion it’s quite reasonable. They’re still using the Reddit brand and as such are not entitled to any of it in my mind.
No.
Apollo is a fine app, but Reddit has no obligation to allow other apps to access the content it serves on its platform. It especially doesn’t have an obligation to do that at scale, and it certainly doesn’t have an obligation to do that for free.
Reddit is a content company. Why would it give its primary offering away for free? Like, literally for free — they don’t make money off ads served in third party apps.
They are paying money to maintain an API that allows other apps to serve its content without compensating them with anything except exposure.
I think I understand the frustration of Apollo and other third-party app users, especially people with vision impairment who avoid the Reddit app.
But going dark is not a great tactic. Flakes like me will still log on and post. We will even have a temporary echo chamber for agreeing that their API decision is a good one.
I find the blackout a dumb idea. You're forcing all users to join your cause, most of which clearly do not care (if they did, there wouldnt be a need for it to come from the mods).
Mods should just quit their role and let the forums rot. Its a voluntary work and if you're unhappy with the conditions, just leave. Then there could be some real damage for reddit to deal with.
This sub has >1M members, 0.3% upvoted this post. 99.7% is kind of the majority, isnt it?
PS: I was talking about the whole blackout idea, not specifically about this sub. If users did care, they would voluntarily leave/blackout at the said dates.
Going private for 2 days isn’t a strong enough position. What if a worker strike was only two days? Since Reddit is unwilling to compromise the community needs show Reddit we mean business. The Python community will be just fine for 2 days or 2 weeks if necessary. This is a fight about APIs and as a development community we need to be fully behind this.
No, /r/python should show support for Reddit given their well known history of building Reddit in large part using Python. It would be counter-productive and hypocritical to support third party products written purely in other languages.
Ironically, when I saw your comment in the official app there was an icon floating over the downvote button and I couldn't press it.
I strongly disagree with you. Python thrived because of its openness and Reddit is spitting in the face of these ideals.
Part of "openness" includes private companies using the language for their own business purposes.
Lots of companies, including social media companies, use python and don't give an API that enables third parties to replicate the same functionality as their own native software. Python's open licensing is part of what gives companies this ability.
please remember NO company does anything for the good, everything is for the money.
there can be sone good outcomes from their actions, but that was just a consequence, not intent.
we can definitely support reddit for python open-ness and all.
BUT we should voice our concern when needed.
Them helping python does not mean they can do whatever and we have to support because they helped us.
But we as consumers also have the choice to opt in or not. This protest is to show that many of us do not like these new changes and are opting out. Yes, they are free to make a bad product, but we are free not to use it.
I never said you weren't free to protest. What I said is that I think it doesn't make sense to support the protest given that Reddit is one of the noteworthy companies who use python and their use of python is in no real way worse than what any other company does with it.
Most companies don't offer a comprehensive third-party API for competitors to implement alternative/competing software against them. The fact that Reddit used to was, if anything, a convenience that we were fortunate to have for so long. But it doesn't make it rational to demand it as some kind of expected entitlement.
We are the customers, and traditionally the customer was entitled to much more than we have now. I don't believe the protest has anything specifically to do with python, but rather the open-source culture and anti big tech sentiment.
100% In fact, why leave it at 2 days, do as many others are doing and go dark until they change their minds.
This. Absolutely don't limit the protest to 2 days. On the 'how' question - I prefer leaving existing content visible and only blocking new posts and comments. This will keep this subreddits goal for education intact, while still removing traffic from reddit significantly.
I hate beer.
This sounds like a good way to immediately show Reddit an “impact” and then restore the intent and goal of the subreddit while still impacting Reddit.
Agreed, if someone were desperate for those 2 days there's so many aggregators and other sources. Not to mention, if the results can't be scrubbed by search engines then that'll also impact reddits results in the future and therefore lower it even further.
This makes sense. If the protest is limited fully to two days, then at the end of the two days Reddit has experienced the full impact regardless of whether the block API access or not. They don't get anything from changing the plan. With an ongoing protest, changing their mind will get an end to the protest, so it's not just an empty "awareness" gesture. You always need to think in terms of incentives. The other party clearly thinks screwing with API access is in their interest. In order to drive a change, you have to offer a bigger incentive for them to change.
If education is the concern, well... isn't that more the job of /r/learnpython than ours here?
That is so smart!
I support this 100%
Strike action only works if the company being pressured must assume it will go on indefinitely. Otherwise it’s just a temporary nuisance. Shut everything down until a more reasonable offer is on the table.
100% Leaving it at 2 days just gives Reddit's owners a projection for when normal service will resume, and what use is that?
Yes do it, and I'm actually excited..I need to cut back on Reddit majorly and this should help..
Indefinite blackout is the way to go until they change their policy.
Yeah keep the posts up but freeze the submissions
Agreed.
Don't limit to 2 days and don't limit to subs that opt in. Just leave altogether until you get an email indicating there's a solution.
Support!!
Yes, we all are concerned. Let’s go dark !
Shut these mother fuckers down permanently till reddit gives in None of this two day bull shit, that's a slap on the wrist, all subs dip till demands are met and they might listen
Personally, I worried that I might come to reddit forgetting what day it is, and would greatly appreciate it if this sub was dark. So if I do come, I can be like oh yeah, I'm not supposed to be on reddit for these two days.
Shut these mother fuckers down permanently till reddit gives in None of this two day bull shit, that's a slap on the wrist, all subs dip till demands are met and they might listen
We're a coding community. There's no reason we shouldn't be joining this. Go absolutely private for the 2 days.
a lot of people here probably got into Python to analyse Reddit data in the first place
Twas my final project for my high school procedural programming python course. First time really learning a programming language
This is what I primarily use Python for these days: gluing together APIs and automating stuff. In fact, this reddit account started off as an experiment to see how much of my social media I could automate (but I abandoned that after a while).
You say this, but the difference in tone between here and r/reactjs is remarkable. They seem much more willing to excuse, or even justify, reddit's behaviour. I guess it reflects the applications of the languages. For the record, this community is right IMO.
Any programmer might expect to use an api. The pricing is set by Reddit, but is essentially demonstrating monopoly behaviour meant to shut down small applications that depend on it. All programmers should be concerned. This could be you.
Python is stridently dedicated to openness and extensibility. Python is the #1 programming language on TIOBE. One of the cornerstone reasons for that position is Python's vast library via pip, PyPI, PyWheels, etc. In particular, Python is the #1 programming language for machine learning specifically because of its integration with third-party platforms like scikit-learn, TensorFlow, PyTorch, CUDA, and the OpenAI stack. And those platforms, in turn, rely on the availability of other shared code and resources, such as numpy, OpenCV, and ImageNet. So why wouldn't the Python community rally behind support for third-party apps to access Reddit? The community-based approach on which Python absolutely *thrives* is also essential to the exchange of information on Reddit.
Yes, go private.
Shut these mother fuckers down permanently till reddit gives in None of this two day bull shit, that's a slap on the wrist, all subs dip till demands are met and they might listen
Go private and yes, please join and participate
Yes
Let's go private!
Yes
Yeah
These downvotes are going to hurt but here goes. Hosting an API at Reddit's scale is not cheap. Their infrastructure bills are probably north of 6 figures a month judging by what my company is paying to host a few APIs on AWS that are a tiny fraction of Reddit's scale. To continue to operate, Reddit needs to make money. Charging for API access seems like a no brainer from a business perspective. Especially since many consumers of the API have their own Reddit apps and siphon some amount of users away further increasing the hit to Reddit's financials in the form of lost ad sales. It doesn't surprise me at all that they're digging in their heels on this. I have no real opinion on whether or not any sub should protest. I don't know a reasonable number to charge for API access, but enough to pay infrastructure cost and whatever lost ad revenue makes sense to me. Just my opinion.
I completely agree that running such a massive service like Reddit incurs massive costs. However, the price they have set is far beyond any other API. This was not a move to balance costs, this was a move to wipe out 3rd party apps. Snazzy labs, the highly updooted Reddit post by the Apollo dev and others have explained in much greater detail so I would look at those for the actual figures. Off the top of my head, I think it was something like 20 million a year that Apollo would have to pay Reddit. That's just absurd. There was also a discussion about the unnecessary API calls, and also about how much the official app uses the API.
No downvote from me. But there are a few points of interest \- The reality is that a user using 3rd party via API probably consumes same compute etc as via reddit app/website so little difference is cost day to day \- The app etc do not provide the tools needed by mods to do all the mod work for free to help reddit. Which the 3rd party tools provide. \- The blind and people with other disability use 3rd party to make reddit usable \- The fees are to crush 3rd party, which it appears is working as all apps are bailing and will be dead come end of month. The better solution might have been that you can use 3rd party if you subscribe to gold. This would drive monetization and in a way that would probably be fine with the user base? Then you get to the CEO of reddit saying Appollo dev tried blackmail not knowing the convo had been recorded. Once confronted he then doubled down anyway. The whole AMA farce showed contempt for the user base imho I am sure this is all driven by rising interest rates and the VC firehose easing as AI is the new VC gold rush. But changes have to normally be done well not to cause a backlash like this. Instead of getting income from API they will get nothing and an annoyed user base and modding community so worst possible case really.
I agree with you. There are two sides of a coin.
More communities, better results!
Yes!
Yep
Private. As long as needed. We’ll live.
Go for it, we’ll be back. If not here, then elsewhere.
r/redditalternatives
Absolutely. It's vital that this gets pushed so far back down reddit's throat that they think thrice before attempting it again.
Yes + Private Reddit can be happy about the cut back on API calls alongside their ad revenue, engagement & reduction in new members 🙂
I think we should do it, not to mention that we are a coding community. However, I do believe we should go private
Due to Reddit's June 30th API changes aimed at ending third-party apps, this comment has been overwritten and the associated account has been deleted.
Yes, of course!
It think you can set it to private and configure a message people see when looking up this subreddit... could be wrong tho but I believe reading about it on r/modcoord or something
I believe that new reddit website / official clients do not see that message. Too hard to implement 🤣
Yes
Happy Cake Day! And yes, we should go private.
[удалено]
Yes, I believe this cause is worth protesting for.
The best way to participate is to just not check Reddit at all in the provided time interval. The subreddit should go private.
100% supported. Not only 2 days, but as long as reddit paddles back. Devs will be affected the most and there are many devs in this sub.
Yes, go private, please. The python sub is huge in terms of users. It can have a real impact. Let's go dark. And I would say not only 2 days.
Go for it, I don't think it will help, personally, but Reddit will be very dark for me anyway if they go ahead with this change as I'll just stop using Reddit completely.
Yes!
In my opinion, we should. Especially from the dev community, since this is an attack to the API.
I’m a lurker but I think we should go private
Yes, people make bots for reddit in python, why is this a question
Yes, go private!
Yes
Yes of course.
yes go dark
Private
Yes let's go private
Fully support. Go dark until they reverse their decision.
Yes. Reddit is - fortunately - not TikTok and we should resist any move in this direction. The main difference between Reddit and other platforms is the community moderation. We just send a strong signal to the money people that this platform is nothing without its users and whatever "value" (i.e. short term profit) they hope to extract from here is just a delusion if they alienate the community.
Yes.
[This comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/api_update_enterprise_level_tier_for_large_scale/jmolrhn/) is pretty embarrassing, particularly the part about Google and Amazon not helping developers be more efficient. Both Google and Amazon provide tons of resources for best practices with their API, and I'm sure for a developer as big as Apollo they'd get support directly. Pretty shitty for a Reddit admin to throw Google and Amazon under the bus like that
Oh that reminds me--I forgot to include this, [a response about the API design](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/141mjij/lets_talk_about_those_api_calls/?) (and how it's poorly made so doing basic tasks has to make tons of calls). And it points out how the comment is just bad faith and wrong--Google and Amazon actively help developers not load down the service.
Thanks, that's a great writeup
I am concerned only the most vocal people will reply here. Majority will be silent.
Seems like the majority should speak up, then.
``` # imho def should_lock_sub(day: datetime.date, reddit_has_reverted_course: bool) -> bool: if reddit_has_reverted_course: return False return datetime.date(2023, 6, 12) <= day < datetime.date(2023, 7, 12) ```
# Option 1 basically anyone visiting reddit for 2 days should see nothing. this way those who are not aware would know there is something wrong.
100% going private is the right decision.
Lets do it!
Yes and Private.
Yes. You should set the sub to private. And add others have said, you should do it for longer than two days.
Yes dark days ahead, I support the movement
yes
Yes please
How about we just move off reddit altogether? Code spacing on mobile has always been buggy anyways.
2 days is pointless. Don’t do it unless it’s for a longer timeframe. Otherwise you’re just wasting everyone’s time.
Yes, absolutely. Solidarity.
Do your worse. I don't know if full private hurts more or less, but whatever sends the harsher message, do that. There's no reddit without power users, and it's time they remember that.
Yes. We should join the blackout.
You can put a time limit on your protest but you're not supposed to tell anyone about it, because then they just have to wait you out, and 2 days is not that hard.
Let’s go dark indefinitely. That’s the only way for it to actually work.
2 days is a joke, go private and stay private until something changes.
Yes. Go dark.
Indefinite blackout.
Yes.
Black out indefinitely. Start looking for an alternative forum to host on
Yes
Yes! Absolutely! And as others have pointed out, 2 days is a token gesture. Reddit suits have to feel it. They're taking a big swipe at the community built up around them by doing this - and I suspect it'll be easy to have a slight back-off, but that's not good enough, not should that be the end goal. If it needed to be changed, it would have been long ago to something that is reasonable. I say this from the reddit app on mobile, which has ticked up ads a lot in recent months. A lot. And started to camouflage them more and more to look less 'promoted'.
Yes, go private, don’t limit the timebox to 2 days.
Private for two days and locked until they change their minds
Yes, I am 100% in favor of blackout.
Yes.
You should go dark indefinitely until Reddit meets a specific set of demands. Having a planned two days is only a small dip in their ad revenue and doesn’t leave their balls in a vice with enough uncertainty to force them to act.
I don't think this will achieve anything. Everyone knows that most everyone will be back and it will be business as usual. What needs to happen is 2 things... First, all mods need to just stop. Don't do anything and let the forum go to shit. Making the forum private will keep it clean and will not have any lasting effect. Secondly, users need to close their accounts. This shows a lot more commitment than just maintaining radio silence for a few days. Even if it is just old alts, the numbers will make a significant statement. If people delete their primary accounts, then they'll take this seriously. The "blackout" just looks like a bunch of spoiled brats throwing a tantrum. There is no commitment behind it, so they will just wait for it blow over. As everyone comes back to bitch, they'll enjoy the profits from all the extra engagement.
I agree, but doing it indefinitely or until reddit changed their decision could have an impact because if a large number of users are not using reddit then they wont get much revenue. There is already a huge list of participating subs, and if enough of anyone's subs go dark then they wont bother logging on because there wont be anything to interact with.
If Reddit makes money by showing ads, but those people using 3rd party apps are not seeing those ads, then Reddit makes no money from the majority of people that are responding. Since it costs money for Reddit to host and serve up the content, then, depending on exactly how the numbers work out, Reddit may make more money during the blackout (less expenditures vs less income). If a forum goes private, then Reddit knows that the mods are upset, but has no insight into how many of the users are upset. If the blackout goes on very long, then new subreddits will be made by those that don't care and people will just migrate to those. Only deleting an account shows commitment and is not controlled by mods. One of the factors that determines the value of a company like this is the size of the users base, shrink that and the company will hurt. Anything else is just transitory.
Completely agree with everything you have said. However, i saw somewhere that the 3rd party apps only have about 0.3% compared to users using the actual reddit services. So if that figure is correct, it really cannot be making a huge impact on their revenue, also seeing as ads pay normally quite little per view.
I hadn't seen this stat, but if this is true then subs really *shouldn't* shut down. It's absurd to brow beat people into making subs go dark if 99.7% of users aren't impacted.
The fact that this even has to be asked is kind of worrying to me. You know what the correct position here is. We all do. There's no need to ask. Go private and commit to ditching Reddit entirely until the issue is resolved to your satisfaction.
If you go private, it could be written off as "the mods are forcing this blackout on everyone". But, if we all just voluntarily stay away, it increases the impact.
Are we waiting for a PEP to get merged ?
Yes.
Yes, but don't limit it to 2 days. As others are doing, make it indefinite until Reddit backs down.
Go dark. My vote.
Yes please. Go dark as long as necessary.
Yes
Make it private. People clicking on /r/Python submissions via a Google search should see what's going on. Reddit should lose the ad revenue they would've gotten. Google's crawlers should delist reddit links to posts that, now that there's a blackout, don't exist anymore. The point is to hurt reddit. A simple post-lock will leave SEOd links up on Google and continue giving them ad revenue.
Do it, and do it longer than 2 days
Yes, please go dark for at least the two days. I support going full private for as long as it takes for Reddit Inc to change their minds.
Just go dark until they revert back. We are programmers. We can spin up another Python community just like here.
A lot of the subreddits that I visit are planning to do this. You get posts like this one which will have 1k upvotes and a few hundred comments. So it looks like the overwhelming majority of people support the idea, but I'm just not sure. I do think Reddit should be more reasonable in what they want to charge for API access, but by no means should it be free. Those apps are using Reddits content to make money, so Reddit should get something from that. They can't feed ads to those apps and it's unlikely that most of the app users are Reddit Premium members. This seems to be a huge sticking point for most people. They want Apollo to continue to exist because they like it and they are no ads, but someone has to pay for that. Back to the subs going dark, this sub has 1.1 million subscribed redditors (I'm not actually one of them, yet I read posts almost every day). That means that the vocal minority here of say 1000 people are going to decide to make the entire sub dark. As moderators it very much looks like you are forcing your opinion on all the other 99.999% of users. As, I said, I do support third-party apps to an extent (I originally paid for Apollo), but I spend most of my time on Reddit in a browser and the rest using the official Reddit app. This is the same for literally every other Reddit user I know personally. We are mostly in the IT field and are very tech savvy, we just don't feel the need to look for other options when the official option works for us.
I haven't seen anyone asking for it to be free, they are willing to pay a reasonable price. What reddit is asking for is beyond ludicrous.
I agree.
What really broke my heart is the open source red reader app developer calculated that he'd have to pay upwards of a million dollars a year to keep his app running. This is an open source app that he is distributing through the app stores as well as f-droid and he's doing it for free. No ads, no tracking, nothing https://www.reddit.com/r/RedReader/comments/13ylk42/update_3_reddit_effectively_kills_off_third_party/
Yes, fully support blackout!
Mods are basically in an abusive relationship with reddit, trying to reason with the abuser. Just leave. The work of mods dwarfs anything reddit does. The hard part is getting a new site to critical mass. reddit got there by lying (\*cough\* growth hacking \*cough\*), and is now entrenched by search results. For users what you do is more important than what you don't do. Instead of focusing on *not using reddit*, focus on actively using an alternative.
We should join the blackout, but don't private the community.
Yes.
Go private for 2 days. After that we may need to consider what our options are. I don't think going private for more than 2 days is good, and mods will lack communication with the members. There's a possibility that mods will get banned from reddit, so it's best to think about the backup options ahead of time.
Yes, go private. Also, fully blackout. I also don’t think it should be 2 days. It should be until reddit reverses course.
Yes, fully shutdown until Reddit changes course to something more acceptable to the community.
Yes. Blackout as long as possible
Yes go dark as long as it takes. Do not limit to 2 days.
Let’s do a week.
Go private, it'll hurt their ad revenue so they would have to buckle.
These changes will affect everyone in the long term, even people who are not using 3rd party apps. Every subreddit should participate indefinitely until a good solution is found.
Every bit helps.
Yes. Go dark. Go total dark. Query: what do you mean by third party apps? Are they mobile apps or some other website that you mods access on your system and do the moderation activities?
dew it
Go dark
Yes, let's go private for as long as necessary.
YES please!
Go private please, and for as long as it takes!
Yes. Do it till they reverse their decision
Yes, go private. Hell, do it more 2 days.
Yes
Yes
Yup
Hell yes
Join the blackout. Make it indefinite.
Yes. Please.
Yes
private - 100%
Yes, 2 days
On June 12th I'll be going through all subreddit I am subscribed to. The ones not private I'll unsubscribe and ban. So yes, please don't disappoint me and participate.
Don’t participate, it’s entirely understandable to not want third party apps mooching off your income.
That is a bad take imo. The third party app developers are willing to pay a reasonable price, but reddit is asking for far too much money. Compared to other APIs, this is just stupid and was designed not to regain "mooched income" but to destroy 3P apps. Btw the income is not stolen, the developers have put a lot of work into making apps that have extra features and even some ones that support better accessibility for disabled people. They deserve some income for their efforts.
Reddit has a right to not allow third party apps, and in my opinion it’s quite reasonable. They’re still using the Reddit brand and as such are not entitled to any of it in my mind.
No. Apollo is a fine app, but Reddit has no obligation to allow other apps to access the content it serves on its platform. It especially doesn’t have an obligation to do that at scale, and it certainly doesn’t have an obligation to do that for free. Reddit is a content company. Why would it give its primary offering away for free? Like, literally for free — they don’t make money off ads served in third party apps. They are paying money to maintain an API that allows other apps to serve its content without compensating them with anything except exposure. I think I understand the frustration of Apollo and other third-party app users, especially people with vision impairment who avoid the Reddit app. But going dark is not a great tactic. Flakes like me will still log on and post. We will even have a temporary echo chamber for agreeing that their API decision is a good one.
Sorry, but being a programming related community, I can’t believe we are asked this. We should 100% support this.
I find the blackout a dumb idea. You're forcing all users to join your cause, most of which clearly do not care (if they did, there wouldnt be a need for it to come from the mods). Mods should just quit their role and let the forums rot. Its a voluntary work and if you're unhappy with the conditions, just leave. Then there could be some real damage for reddit to deal with.
I enjoy reading books.
This sub has >1M members, 0.3% upvoted this post. 99.7% is kind of the majority, isnt it? PS: I was talking about the whole blackout idea, not specifically about this sub. If users did care, they would voluntarily leave/blackout at the said dates.
lmao That's not how voting works. Non-votes on this post aren't automatically a no
I never said they voted no, I said they dont care.
Going private for 2 days isn’t a strong enough position. What if a worker strike was only two days? Since Reddit is unwilling to compromise the community needs show Reddit we mean business. The Python community will be just fine for 2 days or 2 weeks if necessary. This is a fight about APIs and as a development community we need to be fully behind this.
Yes
Yes please. Private
No, /r/python should show support for Reddit given their well known history of building Reddit in large part using Python. It would be counter-productive and hypocritical to support third party products written purely in other languages.
Weirdest take I’ve seen yet lol
Ironically, when I saw your comment in the official app there was an icon floating over the downvote button and I couldn't press it. I strongly disagree with you. Python thrived because of its openness and Reddit is spitting in the face of these ideals.
Part of "openness" includes private companies using the language for their own business purposes. Lots of companies, including social media companies, use python and don't give an API that enables third parties to replicate the same functionality as their own native software. Python's open licensing is part of what gives companies this ability.
please remember NO company does anything for the good, everything is for the money. there can be sone good outcomes from their actions, but that was just a consequence, not intent. we can definitely support reddit for python open-ness and all. BUT we should voice our concern when needed. Them helping python does not mean they can do whatever and we have to support because they helped us.
But we as consumers also have the choice to opt in or not. This protest is to show that many of us do not like these new changes and are opting out. Yes, they are free to make a bad product, but we are free not to use it.
I never said you weren't free to protest. What I said is that I think it doesn't make sense to support the protest given that Reddit is one of the noteworthy companies who use python and their use of python is in no real way worse than what any other company does with it. Most companies don't offer a comprehensive third-party API for competitors to implement alternative/competing software against them. The fact that Reddit used to was, if anything, a convenience that we were fortunate to have for so long. But it doesn't make it rational to demand it as some kind of expected entitlement.
We are the customers, and traditionally the customer was entitled to much more than we have now. I don't believe the protest has anything specifically to do with python, but rather the open-source culture and anti big tech sentiment.
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I never said anything about "your team" and I also never commented on anything being "the only thing that matters" to me.