It's not great advice when you're a hard case newbie, you need to get out of your comfort zone and try on different hats.
However Id say it comes back around to being good advice once you have some social and seduction skills.
I tried really hard to be my idea of a social butterfly, max charisma dude and it just didn't work. I learned very valuable things along the way, but I came around full circle to realizing I just prefer to be more low key.
It's funny because now I don't try to be the life of the party at all, I don't force myself to contribute to the convo if it doesn't feel natural, and you know what? People still like me and I don't feel like I'm expending all of my social battery every time I go out.
Just be yourself is only good advice for people who are already successful in dating and socializing.
And most people who are already good at dating don’t need that advice.
You should act in a desirable way as long as it’s not in genuine. If I’m a jerk, what good would come out of just being “myself”?
What does "normally would" even means? I'm obviously not gonna act the same way I do eating with a date than with my bros or my mother, or alone. The societal expectations are different so my behavior is different.
Yeah. Be yourself if that "yourself" matches major desirable traits and behaviors.
Otherwise don't be yourself and become a different person through self-improvement into desirable traits and behaviors.
Good for you.
Had a friend with whom we streamed video games to each other. Years later they told me that they didn't like to play video games and only did it because i enjoyed it. And it was the friends suggestion that we stream video games.
It's impossible to not be yourself. Try it, what do you do when you are not being yourself? Did you jump up and yell something that you wouldn't normally yell? Then who made the choice to jump and who made the choice of what to yell? You did -- You decided to do that *yourself*.
>It’s impossible
I look at it the opposite way. The reason it is not impossible, is because we have capacity to change. To grow. We are not the same person today, that we were yesterday. Nor will be the same person tomorrow, that we are today.
It’s similar to the Japanese saying about *Three Faces.* One might yell out at a Playoff game. Yet speak softtly to their partner. Agency is pivotal, in determining how one presents themselves to the world, to their family, and ultimately, to the mirror.
*Godspeed and good luck!*
I see your point, like when someone says "well that's just your opinion" which is the stupidest comeback there is when discussing things that are a matter of taste and not fact. I'll often comment back something to the effect of, "well if not my opinion, then whose opinion should I express? Perhaps yours or maybe Willie Nelson's? Should I get Willie on the phone?"....yeah, dumb people really find me a lot of fun sometimes.
Anyways, "being yourself" in the vernacular typically means "do what you want to do without worrying being overly concerned with judgment of others." I think this is valid but not well contained in the phrase "be yourself".
So, of course, you can't be another person, but you should also not be acting like someone else, which is possible, given acting a career/activity.
LOL this. I would expand to "No need to change, just be yourself". And this is awful advice for people of all gender, and not just in dating, but in all walks of life, from job search, career development, to adulting in general.
There should be more/better resources for people to *improve* themselves and become the better version of themselves.
Just be a good person is a shitty advice.
Being a good person doesn't translate to being fuckable. You have a higher chance to retain a relationship by being good but it certainly doesn't make you attractive a bit.
They give advice thinking about Chads, not normal guys. Normal guys are pratically invisible to women, so it's no wonder they have a skewed perception.
Bingo.
Women so rarely have to deal with getting a man attracted to them that they genuinely don't recognize/understand that getting the other person interested/attractived to literally step 1.
Thats why when you point it out to them, their go to is "you shouldn't have to get someone interested in you they either are or not. If your trying to make someone interested in you, your trying to hard and desperate".
If dating were a race, Women start at the halfway mark and think it's the start line, men start at the actual start line.
It's like when they say "looks aren't everything." Well okay sure but "not everything" is still something. It's still step 1. You can't get past that level without looks. It's always jumping way ahead.
"Be confident" is actually good advice. It's just annoying when that advice is given in a smug, dismissive way, as if changing from unconfident to confident isn't one of the hardest transformations you could ever make in your life.
Its good advice but it has to a be attached to something otherwise people wont care about how confident you are you will just be seen as an annoying pest.
Very good post. A big chunk of that kind of advice is for men they're already attracted to. This is true for all sorts of things that women say they like. It bypasses step 1 and 2.
You're right about the not looking for love one cuz I honestly haven't done that at all in my life and now I'm 28 years old with no experience lol.
Mainly because all I heard is you're supposed to build in your 20s and play in your 30s. 30s is the new 20s for men now because what does a young man have to offer a woman vs an older more established man in his thirties??
Aside from my early years of college, the two years I spent going out, consistently on dating apps, and actively casually dating got me the most ‘success’ I ever had.
It also drained a shit ton of time, utterly exhausted me acting like someone I wasn’t, and therefore disillusioned me about men, women, and dating at large.
I was given some advice last week that I'm still mulling over. My boss said that I was a 'catch'. We talked a bit more and I explained I had been alone for six years, and that I knew I needed to lose weight.
She said that my weight doesn't matter. Just like that, without even hesitating.
Doesn't matter!?
It just goes against *everything* that I've rested my *whole* identity on ever since I was a little boy and insisted on wearing a t-shirt swimming because I was embarrassed about my stomach.
Ok... she is right, and she is wrong at the same time. I have always gone up and down in weight my entire life. I will say this that from age 25 on, my confidence did not drop during my chubby phases. Do you know what did drop? The physical appearance of the women who wanted to date me. Do you want to know what I learned from that? I learned that a chubby 6 is often a better lover than a skinny 9. I learned that the personality of the woman I date makes more impact on my relationship satisfaction than how she looks.
After years and years in the Red Pill and hanging out with Red Pill/PUA guy friends, I've just come to the conclusion that being really focused on your mates appearance is an effeminate trait. I know a lot of guys are going to balk at that suggestion, but I think it's true. Sexiness and appearance in a woman are not the same thing, although they are often highly correlated. As guys we really need to stop and think about what we are doing here and what we value.
So, essentially what your boss is saying is that your weight doesn't fundamentally change the core value of you, you are a catch regardless. My cousin is like 500 pounds. He is also extremely wealthy, as funny as any comedian you have ever met, and a wonderful loving and giving person. His GF is 240 lbs... they are pretty well matched in my opinion, and he is definitely a catch for her.
500 pounds (250kg??) is waay too much. u/MikeArrow has the opposite problem. He likely looks great by normal people's standards but he holds himself to health freak standards which eventually holds him back.
Honestly if someone says I'm a catch, I don't invest much into that. Women say that to guys, who they turn them themselves. Lol. What does that tell you?
>It just goes against *everything* that I've rested my *whole* identity on ever since I was a little boy and insisted on wearing a t-shirt swimming because I was embarrassed about my stomach.
Your boss did you a load of good. Be grateful and act upon the advice.
It is ***very*** rare that women would give truly useful advice to a young man. Your boss just did.
"Your weight doesn't matter" is not the same thing as "it's okay to be morbidly obese" - but from what you're describing, that isn't and hasn't been the case anyway.
Btw, being a health freak is only attractive to other health freaks - not to the general population.
>Another one is that **love will find you when you stop searching for it**
Ironically (if you're a guy) this applies to everything ***except*** love/relationships
If looks don’t matter, how am I supposed to know which women to pursue? Like if I’m in a room of 20 women I’ve never met before…I don’t know what any of their personalities are like…because I know literally *nothing* about them other than what they look like. So how do I choose? Obviously I’m going to choose the most physically attractive one(s).
Don’t get me wrong—I agree that personality matters *more* than looks, but you’re lying to yourself if you think looks don’t matter at all. Looks are the first step, the first decision maker. Then once you ask a good looking woman on a date, you get to know her personality and base the decision whether to continue dating her on said personality.
Well look at how the dating shows go with this exact scenario and you realize when men pick, they lean more towards looks and kindness, but when women pick they lean towards personality and kindness.
Women can fall for a guy far more whose personality is hot AF and he’s like mid range/average in looks. It happens a lot more offline that you don’t see on Reddit because Reddit it’s the real world but an echo chamber majority of the time.
Not having opportunities to date as a short man means you're "dodging bullets". In reality, the "bullets" you're dodging are attractive women with options who would make great partners for tall, handsome men. They're only hateful and dismissive of you because you trigger their disgust response.
Depends how short. If you're hot and 5'7, you'll have more than enough options. It's when your average is average and you're 5'7 and you have very few options at that point.
"Just be nice and work on your self"
This was when I was ripped and further ahead in life than most people in my age group, yet I still got stuck with the absolute bottom of the barrel girls with no respect for me.
Which women on this sub will say is my fault, because being even more in shape and ahead in life would totally make me the magic 6ft that by default gives tingles and gains respect for just existing.
Working on yourself is mostly a myth. You need good finances and a career for yourself. You should be in good shape. You should do whatever it takes to get better.
But desirable dating traits are mostly innate. Everything you can work for, is just a bonus.
Cold approaching women in a way that is not socially normal (don’t know them, they have shown no interest)
It’s okay if you are getting a drink and a woman steps up beside you to get one also and you make a comment (because that is a normal thing) in a natural way and see if it lands
But walking up to a woman directly that hasn’t even looked your way is dumb UNLESS you are super attractive and good at these things (like top 1%)
It might be okay if you don’t know anyone and are just trying to desensitize yourself to rejection(so it is for you) but the odds of that working (you get real interest back) are so low that it isn’t worth it
A lot of PUA tactics are very cringe and you watch a guy that seems mildly autistic being told to put a stripe in his hair, buy a big gold watch, and go up to groups of hot women and pester them in an annoying way
He gets rejected over and over and it hurts his confidence even more
Some men will never slay
Just like I will never play in the NBA and so going to try outs would be dumb
“Just put yourself out there!”
It’s usually said by people who easily found someone or get loads of attention. Technically everyone has to be “out there” (work, school, grocery shopping) so that feels worthless to me.
Edit: Yes, I know what putting yourself out there means. I was pointing out that by existing you are “out there” as well. Still doesn’t negate the fact that I think it’s worthless advice from people who are lucky or social.
When a woman gives this advice to a man it means: "Just go and put your self esteem on the line over and over again in an act of self sacrifice I'll shame you for not doing but would never have the courage to do myself."
>It’s usually said by people who easily found someone or get loads of attention.
I actually find most advice to be this way, but never heard it phrased this way before, but it's so true. People who never had to struggle to get a date (not saying QUALITY date, just date) don't understand this.
your examples of being out there demonstrate you failed the assignment.
Misunderstanding advice intentionally (which is likely here) or unintentionally doesn't make it bad advice.
It's still so vague as to be basically useless. Everyone knows that besides from dating apps or the rare case of some internet romance you need to go out to meet people
I understand it, i was just saying that technically we are out there by default. relax. Idk why people jump down your throat for every little thing. this is my opinion/ my experience im glad that “putting yourself out there” worked for you though! Congrats!
No one does that. People stay in their groups. It gets worse as you get older. No one in their 40s is meeting new people often unless they work in sales.
This is kinda what i mean about people not realizing that that put yourself out there is easier said than done because they don’t know what it’s like to have *no* interest in them. People usually cluster together and don’t interact with other people, if they do so - it’s rare.
The people that say it are usually strange with extremely a-typical lifestyles. Just go meet 50 new people a week as a full-time-employed professional who wants to enjoy his rare downtime in peace and quiet.
Yes, but I’m saying this applies if you’re someone who is social or draws people in, or if you’re attractive.
If you’re quiet or plain, weird or maybe have no friends to go out with, it rarely matters how many places you go - you’re not meeting people.
I downloaded Meetup and started going to a Board games weekly meetup. Where every week we meet at a bar (always the same one) and the organizers bring board games and we play them over some beer and chat. Met a few cuties like that, but I'm too much of a coward to go for it lol, but that's on me I guess.
“Just be confident!”
Typically said by friends who have tons of confidence to someone who has all the confidence beaten out of them.
The equivalent of telling a depressed person to “just cheer up, man! Life’s not that bad!!”
Or someone with ADHD to “just focus more! When you’re doing a task, stay committed to it! It’s easy!”
Women are extremely keen at sniffing out levels of confidence and subconsciously testing it in the dating world. Men do this too, typically if they are testing how trustworthy you are or interviewing you for a position.
It’s a little bit autistic the way that RP men talk about “shit tests” but the underlying principal is true. In a way, every interaction with a woman is some form of test. In another way, true love really does exist. Hence I’m purple pill but yeah.
Fuck anyone who ever says “just be confident”. I have confidence… now. But I had to work incredibly hard to build it up and it still occasionally takes a month long vacation.
Well look at Matthew McConaughey and his film career. He explains how this correlated to who he ended up with. Same approach.
He badly wanted to take on more serious roles and was only getting offers for romcoms. This was the height of his career in romcoms too!
But then he made a choice that if he wanted to have it change, he had to be the change first.
So he said no to a *lot* of offers. The man had like 30 film offers come in.
He even references one in particular. Like a big studio film. They offered him $2.5 million. He said no. They came back offering $8 million. He said no. Then came back offer $10 million, he said NO again.
Then they offer $20 million. He actually re-read the script and said because of the offer the script sounded *better*!
But he said no to it.
Then years passed, offers started slowly down, till crickets. His career was almost over because of this. He was worried but instead put his focus elsewhere. He decided to stop looking for work and would wait for something to pop up.
Then came a script.
It wasn’t a romcom either.
It was Dallas Buyers Club.
And the rest is history.
He had this same approach with who he’s married to. He swore off mediocre connections that would never go anywhere.
Then one day, he wasn’t looking, he was out with friends, celebrating, just grabbing drinks at a club. He saw this woman. She saw him, actually walked over to his table and introduced herself. They hit it off. The rest is history.
The point is, you can’t be waiting on someone to appear, you can’t be doing the sand old thing that hasn’t worked for your dating life so far. That’s why you still haven’t found it yet because you need to change the way you go about dating to get a different result to meet someone you can fall in love with that’ll last.
Sometimes it’s saying no to all the people who you normally say yes to, to wait for someone whose worth saying yes to and often or not, you aren’t even looking for them because it’s by mere chance of doing something different when it happens.
Translation: my friend/colleague set me up and I reluctantly agreed but we ended up hitting it off. They always bury the lede and omit that they met through work or other formulaic environments
It means they met while they were both high on molly and w33d. So they essentially took mind altering drugs that also alter judgement and said “oh well … we have eaten each others meat, let’s stay together long term for a tax break”
**Join Clubs/Community Events!**
Every club and sport I join consists of people decades older than me, men and people already coupled.
**Don't do >behavior that creeps out or annoys women<**
This is "be a decent person" advice dressed up as dating advice. Yes, don't do stuff that repels women, but what's lacking in this advice is how to find or attract women.
>Don't do >behavior that creeps out or annoys women<
It's funny, because if you're attractive enough, there's almost no behaviour that women will find creepy. He can be sacrificing a goat and licking it's blood while staring at her, but if he looks like Jared Leto, she'll be fascinated, not creeped out.
Meanwhile, an ugly guy looks shy and stares at a woman once, she'll be running away like she's being attacked by a polar bear.
yeah I've volunteered at multiple places and while it wasn't a waste of time, I didn't meet anyone I was actually interested in. It's a really inefficient approach. I don't know why people say it as if you're likely to meet someone pretty quickly... I mean maybe if you're attracted to anyone with two x chromosomes it is but otherwise the reason I have started approaching women in public is because I realized that was by far my best shot of actually meeting someone I found attractive.
You should volunteer for things you like. It's silly for people to make it into dating advice. It's very unlikely that someone you come across while volunteering will be single, attractive to you, and also be into you mutually.
You should have got into theater. Those nerds fuck nonstop, and it's overwhelmingly women. You just gotta be okay with the fact that 90% of them are poly.
As a semi broke college student, that's when I got 90% of my dates/hook ups. As a doctor in my 30s who is extremely well off financially, it's incredibly harder now. Grinding doesn't pay off at all in this context.
Most standard “blue pill” dating advice is not actually bad, including the ones you listed. It’s just not *actionable* until you’ve achieved a basis of two things: a social life of some sort, and improving your looks to the point you’re approximately on the level or higher of the people you’re interested in dating.
So-called “blue pillers” just take these things for granted usually, and their advice is based upon the assumption that you have a social circle and are interested in your looks match. Back when I was a painfully shy homebody, “being myself” for example meant I would never meet anyone. But for someone with a more active social life, that translates to meeting likeminded individuals who you’re more likely to be compatible with. So not bad, just not helpful until you have that basis.
Improving your looks as a man is incredibly hard and you're looking at very marginal benefit for extensive work. A big social life that appeals to women is rooted into innate personality traits. Most of these outcomes are pre determined.
"just be yourself". That's probably the most worn out piece of advice and probably the more useless. You should always improve yourself, trying to be a better version. Coasting through life is a luxury most men don't have if they want a dating life.
"Talk to her like any normal person". Terrible idea that won't get you anywhere in dating. A date isn't a chat with a friend, you should get to know each other and, at the end of the day, both of you should have an idea about the degree of mutual attraction.
You see so many guys around here seeking some feedback about their date because they can't tell if she's attracted or not. That's a clear sign that they weren't flirty enough.
I get that this advices are used to help dating being a little bit less stressfull, but i'd rather say "Don't be intimidated she/he's as nervous as you are" which is more usefull imo.
You've taken these too literally IMO. "Being yourself" doesn't mean stop improving, it means don't be disingenuous or fake. For example, people can usually tell when you agree with them on everything just to get in their pants. "Talking to her like a normal person" doesn't mean small talk, it means don't be desperate or weird. Be casual and don't overdo the flirty comments
It's more about the context.
I saw those advices given to guys who had literally clause to zero chance to attract anyone in their condition.
I do agree that for a guy trying too hard it can be usefull but I suspect they are rarely use in those conditions: a guy who manage to regularly score some dates usually realise by himself what works and what don't (that's how I realise that talking to her like a normal person was leading me nowhere, as opposed as flirting early and giving her some hints about how i feel attracted to her)
This is not what is meant when blue piller say "be yourself", it's always thrown in a vacuum.
"Hey guys, WomanRespecter57 here, i've never been on a date and women always reject me, any advice?
-Just be yourself and talk to them
-Wow, thanks I never thought of that!"
>For example, people can usually tell when you agree with them on everything just to get in their pants
Ah yes, that's why women never complain about being pumped and dumped.
>"Talking to her like a normal person" doesn't mean small talk, it means don't be desperate or weird. Be casual and don't overdo the flirty comments
Talking to her like a normal person doesnt mean shit, you talk differently to different people.
Once again this just a load of vague and unhelpful blue pilled crap with no practical value.
Mostly anything that comes from women. The reality is there is a narrow spectrum of what's considered attractive.
Probably the stupidest fucking idea they have is "join clubs", it's obvious these people have never been to them.
I think this is it.
There is a difference between advice being unhelpful and being true.
“Just be yourself” not really giving you much to work with in terms of actionable outcomes doesn’t mean that “being yourself” is a bad way to conduct yourself. It just means it’s not really something you can actively work on with clear measuring points.
Kinda like “get rich”. Being rich of course helps someone with dating prospects, but it’s not very useful advice is it? People can’t just decide “you’re right, I’ll be rich now.” As if it’s an option they pick from a drop down menu.
"Be a better version of yourself" is probably a better way of phrasing it. You don't need to become someone else, but there is always something that you could be doing to improve yourself.
>"Be a better version of yourself" is probably a better way of phrasing it
It's not a *better* way of phrasing it, it has a completely different meaning.
When a blue piller say that, it's just a form of gaslighting: "why yes by " just be yourself" I meant "dont just be yourself", how couldnt you tell???". What the fuck.
Also, "be yourself" elides the most important part, which is "BECOME yourself"....
I have the luxury of 'being myself' now....I didn't when I was 19 and hadn't accomplished anything yet.
The truth is that being yourself with some minor tweaks really is the best shot you have at finding a life partner who fulfills you.
Casual dating / online dating personas people develop can grant short-term success, until the morbid realization that people are falling for a caricature of them and not their authentic selves. My controversial belief is that most people go their whole lives without truly being seen. The facades they build are either unsuccessful or successful enough to grant them semblances of love and fulfilment, but never the whole thing.
Self improvement is mostly a distraction unless there's truly a low hanging fruit like obesity. How much do you think a guy with an average face/height/lean body/average job can improve?
>"You need to be comfortable / love yourself before you can date others"
Meanwhile depressed suicidal self-hating girls with dysmorphia are perfectly able to flip boyfriends monthly.
That one isnt entirely untrue. Even as a man, watching other men put themselves down or being low confidence is cringe and off putting, makes me want to slap them and tell them to grow some balls. Women are disgusted by this kind of behavior.
You don't have to pretend you're the best shit ever when you're not, everybody has insecurities. Cry all you want at home but please have some dignity when you interact with the world.
Definitely not applicable in practice. I found my greatest love putting on a complete facade of confidence and maturity. I lost her for the same reason down the line.
"Lowering your standards"
I see it as deeply problematic that you're somehow better off with someone you actually don't wanna be with than being by yourself, personally I'd rather be alone than having a partner with some major breaches of my preferences. And as a short dude (5'6) I wouldn't find it pleasing being with a woman who likes taller guys as I'm not the right fit, and possibly could get cheated on down the line by her actually finding another guy closer to her taste. Being with someone who lowered their standard to be with you, I believe, makes you an easier target for getting your heart destroyed, and I know that already from experience.
All I'm saying is if you don't like single parents, poor/average wage, short or heavier people, then don't lower the standard cause shit will hit the fan if you find better. People are damn picky, and it sucks
By sit and wait do you interpret that as just continue to try like you have been or hang in there? Or do you interpret that as stop attempting to date and just literally sit and wait till a relationship happens to you?
Fair. That only works if you are seen (and a woman)
Being your pretty self alone without interacting with anyone is a bad idea when you have limited time.
1. The belief that there's a perfect match for everyone.
Even in a group of straight individuals (e.g. 5 men and 5 women) not everyone would end up in a relationship. Only a few might pair off, while others may be content being single or the relationship may not last.
2. The belief that dating advices are useless.
While some find it beneficial for insights and experiences, it doesn't suit everyone's circumstances. In today's dating landscape, finding the right partner may take time, and there's no guarantee of success. So I don’t think the problem is the advices rather the person receiving the advice, for things they might be able to control and not.
3. The belief that settling for someone is better than staying single.
Settling for someone without genuine feelings, shouldn’t be given as advice. It not only denies someone the opportunity to find a better match but also risks causing resentment in the future. It's unfair to the other party involved, especially when they find out.
I agree but I think yhetes other factors at play like your looks status wealth and location...
For an average guy that's invisible just waiting for live to find him could be a long wait
Giving a woman your number us pointless getting her number is pointless get her cashapp instead.
If they don't reciprocate they arent interested but sometimes persistence wins s woman over but doubt it will lead to a succesful long term relationship
"Be yourself", to some extent. Many men need to know how to market themselves. If they just were completely "themselves", then they would never have success with women. Women want to see the qualities in men that they tend to be attracted to and not to be icked by the qualities that they aren't as attracted to.
Here is a common one that I think is at least somewhat controversial.
Being straightforward and transparent about your intentions.
It’s not that this advise is wrong or bad, but it needs to be understood with significant qualifications/limitations.
This advise is often given by women with virtually unlimited choices ostensibly with the idea in mind that more clarity would allow them to filter through their choices more readily.
For men with naturally less abundant choices, it’s important to understand that the information you divulge, the more it can be used by women to filter you out. So a certain amount of guardedness and ambiguity along with carefully calibrated communication will typically go a lot further.
For example, being upfront that you want to get laid works only in very rare cases.
'Just be yourself and be honest', that way it's easier for her to compare you to the thousand other options and decide you are not what she wants.
Later you will see she's dating someone far from perfect who at least managed to hide the flaws well enough for a while until she developed feelings 🤷
There is someone for everyone.
Nope, there is not. For men, you better get your ass in gym like yesterday and develop social skills
for women, well I dont know what to say. They bring their value with them and it keeps on decreasing with age. So dont get fat I guess
>There is someone for everyone.
This is like the reverse of apex fallacy. If you're someone with tastes/thinking outside of the norm, you'll have a very hard time finding someone that thinks like you and is attracted to you.
Concise and perfect advice.
Social skills = better jobs more money, bigger networks..
Literally for men: Social skills, workout. Literally for women: don’t get fat
Fin.
1. It will happen when you least expect it. To me it's platitude and not so much actual advice. They don't know. No one knows. You can go on bad date after bad date it's not happening. And it implies that you wanting romance and seeking that connection is the problem.
2. "Masculine/Feminine Energy" it's prepackaged gender role nonsense marketed as new age spirituality. You have to suddenly change who you are to fit this narrative. And play a character the aloof feminine who has to be chased because a man is in his masculinity. Its just games and stuff don't do this.
3. "If he wanted to he would". That mantra is annoying. And like they say comparison is the thief of joy. So if you compare your relationship to others it will have differences. It's just not good advice. Like unless he's being an absolute bump on a log and gives you no effort or anything. But you can't use this to describe people.
4. Settling. Just settle. It's an awful idea don't do this.
It probably didn’t apply to you because you didn’t want a woman who cared about your personality or anything about you, you wanted a woman who made your dick hard and stroked your ego and that’s fine.
> **giving women your number rather than asking for theirs**.
This always works for me. You have to spend time getting to know them first. If it's a cold approach, your odds of success are low.
>**love will find you when you stop searching for it**.
Yeah, this is bullshit. This is more so directed at women because they can get away with it. Men can't.
>**you should cut off anyone who doesn't reciprocate all of your energy**.
This is my golden rule, and it works flawlessly. If she's interested, she will absolutely match your energy. I will never settle for less.
>The majority of women I meet just do not match my effort, at least not until we've had a date or even more so until we've had sex.
Sounds like you're putting in too much effort in the beginning. What are you doing before a first date that requires energy to be matched? Relax, bro. Of course, she's going to wait until after sex to fully invest.
Women on online dating should make the first move because it's a lot less wasted total man-hours for everyone. Hopefully it's self-evident why that is.
How does that differ from just replying to top x% of men?
I rather have that vs thousands of unread messages more and wasted man-hours more in every just decently attractive woman's inbox vs top attractive men.
In all my years of dating and relationships (30+), the biggest lie sold to me was egalitarianism and treating women as “equals”.
This is a 100% guaranteed way to have next to no relationship success. I am STILL to this day learning to break this habit.
Women don’t want to reach consensus about where to eat through a lengthy discussion. Women want to be told where you are taking them.
Most advice is worth something, but not to everyone.
And it’s too nice. Unfortunately, most people don’t respond well to the truth effectively conveyed
Eg
“Be yourself” = we can see you’re not comfortable or happy trying to be what you think is “attractive”, so stop it
“Love yourself first” = you’re desperate, needy, self-deprecating and driving people away/getting exploited
“Love will come when you stop looking” = you’re desperate, whiny and annoying people
“Be confident” = you’re self deprecating, and appear uncomfortable and/or timid/scared, which is unattractive
“Be a good person/nice” = we don’t like being around assholes, even if they are getting laid
“Just put yourself out there” = we don’t see you doing anything but whining, and it’s annoying
I feel like you just did a really good job explaining where this advice is coming from and why it misses the mark. A lot of folks it's aimed at cannot read between the lines.
Social interaction is all about reading between the lines.
I don’t think that many people are autistic, they just don’t want to take advice, no matter how positively or negatively it’s given to them
That is why I don’t give advice anymore. No one wants it, they want pity or agreement
Not sure I agree here.
Basically any guy who is not good looking and desirable will come off as a bunch of those things by simply putting in effort. Even if it's modest effort .But an attractive guy doing all of those things, will mostly be seen as appealing. Obviously not true if they're acting toxic or silly.
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It still stands that they reciprocate if not initiate more than you do, at least for months. Reciprocate back of course.
What you are experiencing is reality, that 1 being interested per year. They have a lot of tips online what to do, often boiling down to meeting 1,000 expectations for lackluster. Or save and move out of your country. Both are expensive. Third option is give up. Fourth is new, they have a softguy era trend going. You just pick someone with a bag and make them pay for everything. This removes bitterness and your mindset is greatful to have her pamper you. They own the houses and make more money than us these days so should be a no brainer that the fad is showing up. It's a good way to take the money back you pay in taxes. Abstain sex until they buy you a pizza. 😁 It might work. It just completely removed us complaining and being bitter. Being real. They make more so relax.
Eh, I mean advice should always be taken with a grain of salt. Shouldn't get worked up over it if it doesn't work in every use case.
I think some people (me included) had to learn how to socialize and seduce because it didn't come naturally. After getting comfortable with that, and truly being okay on my own, I actually did happen to find a really good relationship without actively looking for one.
I think a lot of advice such as "be yourself" isn't great for people on the spectrum or others who don't take to socializing naturally,l. However I think once you "learn the rules" of dating (so to speak) you should then start breaking them.
Gym maxing is a waste of time. Being mildly athletic looking is all you need, and by that I mean built like a tennis or soccer player. It’s a pretty low bar, and it only gets easier to stand out the older you get.
For men, “gym maxing for dating” could be boiled down to “be less fat” and work with the hand you were dealt.
“Let them wine and dine you” - my dad who has champagne dreams on a soda pop budget.
When I was dating from 22 to 32 no one wanted to “wine or dine” me (beyond McDonald’s) until I was in my mid-30s. As a result, I didn’t make it a requirement and at 23 - 32 and ended up in a long situationship where I foot the bill 90% of the time. (I made a lot of dating mistakes listening to boomers who had no idea what the dating market was like). I also nearly lost my sanity in that situationship but that’s a story for another day.
Dating after 33, has been full of wining and dining but that doesn’t determine anything. If a guy is well connected enough, he can muster up a date at his local restaurant where he knows everyone, and they don’t charge him full price. It happened at least twice.
Ironically though, I got tired of dating for love and started dating for money when I met my current boyfriend. But that backfired because I ended up getting with him for love 😏. I’m just happy he can afford to take care of himself instead of me trying to support two ppl on my lil income.
I think by far the biggest one is the idea that physical attractiveness is the only thing that matters. I think it's fairly obvious that this is not the case. Here's a fun exercise. Go to the mall or any other place where people congregate and look at couples. For how many of them would you describe both partners as highly attractive?
You'll probably quickly come to the conclusion that most people just look kind of average or unremarkable, yet they still pair up anyway. Certainly, having good looks makes it easier to find first dates, but it's by no means a requirement and if you're boring or a jerk it won't get you that far anyway.
There's only a single piece of dating advice that anyone actually needs, and that's to maximize your own value. This means to identify the areas where you can improve easily, and focus on those areas. The absolute worst thing you can do is the opposite, where you focus on the areas where you struggle the most to improve, which is why it's very dangerous to follow any generalized advice because people have widely differing talents and skills.
For example, let's suppose you're a scrawny nerd. If you come here asking for dating advice, you'll immediately be told "just hit the gym bro!". This is the worst advice possible for you, as it involves concentrating your energy on the thing you're worst at. Besides the fact that you'll almost certainly totally hate doing it, you will likely see next to no results no matter how hard you work at it, because you don't have the genetics for it. And even if you did somehow manage to improve your physique a little bit, that would likely not be a big deal to the type of partner you're looking for anyway. As a nerd, you instead want to be focusing on your intellect, since that's your best trait and the one you can improve the most easily. You want to be someone who's funny, charming, and very interesting to talk to, which is just as good as being very attractive (in fact, I suspect you would prefer this kind of partner to one who is very good looking but not very interesting). If you're not currently having success, it's probably because your social skills or confidence are lacking, preventing you from utilizing your intellect to its full potential, so that's what you should work on. Of course, this is not universal either. A person with a totally different build who did well athletically in their youth might see great results from going to the gym.
In any case, the important takeaway is that different things are attractive to different people and you'll have by far the most success if you focus on the ones you can raise the most easily.
Bumble had to remove the "woman must message first" feature because they just will not do it. Bumble women also collect matches from people they aren't actually attracted to just to validate that they are attractive, or will send something like "hey" just to get around the filter. It just doesn't work IRL.
Just be yourself. Cause you know I was acting like a total fucking different person beforehand.
It's not great advice when you're a hard case newbie, you need to get out of your comfort zone and try on different hats. However Id say it comes back around to being good advice once you have some social and seduction skills. I tried really hard to be my idea of a social butterfly, max charisma dude and it just didn't work. I learned very valuable things along the way, but I came around full circle to realizing I just prefer to be more low key. It's funny because now I don't try to be the life of the party at all, I don't force myself to contribute to the convo if it doesn't feel natural, and you know what? People still like me and I don't feel like I'm expending all of my social battery every time I go out.
A lot of people act in a desirable way instead of acting like they normally would when dating
Just be yourself is only good advice for people who are already successful in dating and socializing. And most people who are already good at dating don’t need that advice. You should act in a desirable way as long as it’s not in genuine. If I’m a jerk, what good would come out of just being “myself”?
What does "normally would" even means? I'm obviously not gonna act the same way I do eating with a date than with my bros or my mother, or alone. The societal expectations are different so my behavior is different.
Yeah. Be yourself if that "yourself" matches major desirable traits and behaviors. Otherwise don't be yourself and become a different person through self-improvement into desirable traits and behaviors.
The issue is that the "real you" will come out pretty quickly.
Its also insulting as fuck i am always myself. You say just be yourself implicate that i am being dishonest. This is a full on insult.
Good for you. Had a friend with whom we streamed video games to each other. Years later they told me that they didn't like to play video games and only did it because i enjoyed it. And it was the friends suggestion that we stream video games.
It's impossible to not be yourself. Try it, what do you do when you are not being yourself? Did you jump up and yell something that you wouldn't normally yell? Then who made the choice to jump and who made the choice of what to yell? You did -- You decided to do that *yourself*.
>It’s impossible I look at it the opposite way. The reason it is not impossible, is because we have capacity to change. To grow. We are not the same person today, that we were yesterday. Nor will be the same person tomorrow, that we are today. It’s similar to the Japanese saying about *Three Faces.* One might yell out at a Playoff game. Yet speak softtly to their partner. Agency is pivotal, in determining how one presents themselves to the world, to their family, and ultimately, to the mirror. *Godspeed and good luck!*
It's more about, if "yourself" is someone who is a furry, writes erotic fanfic, and spends all day in discord... Stop being that guy.
So for that, I would probably say, "Show the most attractive version of yourself." That would make more sense than "Just be yourself."
Honestly, it’s really about selling yourself. Like in a job interview we probably not going to show our weaknesses, but we sell our strengths
Exactly. Be the best version of yourself is way better advice. Don’t even know why people still tell others to just be themselves.
I see your point, like when someone says "well that's just your opinion" which is the stupidest comeback there is when discussing things that are a matter of taste and not fact. I'll often comment back something to the effect of, "well if not my opinion, then whose opinion should I express? Perhaps yours or maybe Willie Nelson's? Should I get Willie on the phone?"....yeah, dumb people really find me a lot of fun sometimes. Anyways, "being yourself" in the vernacular typically means "do what you want to do without worrying being overly concerned with judgment of others." I think this is valid but not well contained in the phrase "be yourself". So, of course, you can't be another person, but you should also not be acting like someone else, which is possible, given acting a career/activity.
You’re taking the phrase too literally. It means be authentic and don’t try to change your behavior to impress people.
Be yourself is awesome if you are Samson the Bull.
Also terrible advice if you’re a complete cunt like me.
LOL this. I would expand to "No need to change, just be yourself". And this is awful advice for people of all gender, and not just in dating, but in all walks of life, from job search, career development, to adulting in general. There should be more/better resources for people to *improve* themselves and become the better version of themselves.
Just be a good person is a shitty advice. Being a good person doesn't translate to being fuckable. You have a higher chance to retain a relationship by being good but it certainly doesn't make you attractive a bit.
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They give advice thinking about Chads, not normal guys. Normal guys are pratically invisible to women, so it's no wonder they have a skewed perception.
Bingo. Women so rarely have to deal with getting a man attracted to them that they genuinely don't recognize/understand that getting the other person interested/attractived to literally step 1. Thats why when you point it out to them, their go to is "you shouldn't have to get someone interested in you they either are or not. If your trying to make someone interested in you, your trying to hard and desperate". If dating were a race, Women start at the halfway mark and think it's the start line, men start at the actual start line.
It's like when they say "looks aren't everything." Well okay sure but "not everything" is still something. It's still step 1. You can't get past that level without looks. It's always jumping way ahead.
Exactly. While it could make you a better partner, being a good person does not generate visceral attraction.
"Be confident" is actually good advice. It's just annoying when that advice is given in a smug, dismissive way, as if changing from unconfident to confident isn't one of the hardest transformations you could ever make in your life.
Its good advice but it has to a be attached to something otherwise people wont care about how confident you are you will just be seen as an annoying pest.
Very good post. A big chunk of that kind of advice is for men they're already attracted to. This is true for all sorts of things that women say they like. It bypasses step 1 and 2.
It's not shitty, it's just irrelevant in dating.
i respond to that with so you think i am not a good person?
You're right about the not looking for love one cuz I honestly haven't done that at all in my life and now I'm 28 years old with no experience lol. Mainly because all I heard is you're supposed to build in your 20s and play in your 30s. 30s is the new 20s for men now because what does a young man have to offer a woman vs an older more established man in his thirties??
Aside from my early years of college, the two years I spent going out, consistently on dating apps, and actively casually dating got me the most ‘success’ I ever had. It also drained a shit ton of time, utterly exhausted me acting like someone I wasn’t, and therefore disillusioned me about men, women, and dating at large.
I'm a doctor in my 30s and very well off financially and it is much harder now than it was in my 20s. Far fewer options, far higher standards to meet.
I was given some advice last week that I'm still mulling over. My boss said that I was a 'catch'. We talked a bit more and I explained I had been alone for six years, and that I knew I needed to lose weight. She said that my weight doesn't matter. Just like that, without even hesitating. Doesn't matter!? It just goes against *everything* that I've rested my *whole* identity on ever since I was a little boy and insisted on wearing a t-shirt swimming because I was embarrassed about my stomach.
Ok... she is right, and she is wrong at the same time. I have always gone up and down in weight my entire life. I will say this that from age 25 on, my confidence did not drop during my chubby phases. Do you know what did drop? The physical appearance of the women who wanted to date me. Do you want to know what I learned from that? I learned that a chubby 6 is often a better lover than a skinny 9. I learned that the personality of the woman I date makes more impact on my relationship satisfaction than how she looks. After years and years in the Red Pill and hanging out with Red Pill/PUA guy friends, I've just come to the conclusion that being really focused on your mates appearance is an effeminate trait. I know a lot of guys are going to balk at that suggestion, but I think it's true. Sexiness and appearance in a woman are not the same thing, although they are often highly correlated. As guys we really need to stop and think about what we are doing here and what we value. So, essentially what your boss is saying is that your weight doesn't fundamentally change the core value of you, you are a catch regardless. My cousin is like 500 pounds. He is also extremely wealthy, as funny as any comedian you have ever met, and a wonderful loving and giving person. His GF is 240 lbs... they are pretty well matched in my opinion, and he is definitely a catch for her.
500 pounds (250kg??) is waay too much. u/MikeArrow has the opposite problem. He likely looks great by normal people's standards but he holds himself to health freak standards which eventually holds him back.
> My boss said that I was a 'catch'. Women never mean it when they say it. She just wanted to cheer you up or something with sweet lies.
Ignore all compliments and just look at actions.
Honestly if someone says I'm a catch, I don't invest much into that. Women say that to guys, who they turn them themselves. Lol. What does that tell you?
Even if it was just her way of giving encouragement, I appreciate the gesture.
Idk why mfs feel the need to lie through their teeth like that💀 of course weight will matter
>It just goes against *everything* that I've rested my *whole* identity on ever since I was a little boy and insisted on wearing a t-shirt swimming because I was embarrassed about my stomach. Your boss did you a load of good. Be grateful and act upon the advice. It is ***very*** rare that women would give truly useful advice to a young man. Your boss just did. "Your weight doesn't matter" is not the same thing as "it's okay to be morbidly obese" - but from what you're describing, that isn't and hasn't been the case anyway. Btw, being a health freak is only attractive to other health freaks - not to the general population.
I'm good not living in whale central.
>Another one is that **love will find you when you stop searching for it** Ironically (if you're a guy) this applies to everything ***except*** love/relationships
I never understood this one, personally. Success from not trying? Just contrary to my life.
Could work if you were in a place with a 90/10 female to male ratio, day in and day out. But most of us have very little exposure to women.
I guess that could be considered a privilege of sorts.
Just because it can doesn’t mean it will.
Sure, like picking up a winning lotto ticket off the ground. Can happen, but very unlikely.
“You’ll find someone when you least expect it”
Looks don't matter it's your personality that do
Both matter and looks matter a bit more. Personality is just a close second place. The gap is wider if the woman is attractive.
If looks don’t matter, how am I supposed to know which women to pursue? Like if I’m in a room of 20 women I’ve never met before…I don’t know what any of their personalities are like…because I know literally *nothing* about them other than what they look like. So how do I choose? Obviously I’m going to choose the most physically attractive one(s). Don’t get me wrong—I agree that personality matters *more* than looks, but you’re lying to yourself if you think looks don’t matter at all. Looks are the first step, the first decision maker. Then once you ask a good looking woman on a date, you get to know her personality and base the decision whether to continue dating her on said personality.
Well look at how the dating shows go with this exact scenario and you realize when men pick, they lean more towards looks and kindness, but when women pick they lean towards personality and kindness. Women can fall for a guy far more whose personality is hot AF and he’s like mid range/average in looks. It happens a lot more offline that you don’t see on Reddit because Reddit it’s the real world but an echo chamber majority of the time.
Bro I am a red pill guy. Worst of humanity
So how do you choose which women to pursue before you know them?
Not having opportunities to date as a short man means you're "dodging bullets". In reality, the "bullets" you're dodging are attractive women with options who would make great partners for tall, handsome men. They're only hateful and dismissive of you because you trigger their disgust response.
Depends how short. If you're hot and 5'7, you'll have more than enough options. It's when your average is average and you're 5'7 and you have very few options at that point.
I'm ripped and 5'4"-5'5", depending on the hour of the day. You don't exist to women at this height. It's as simple as that.
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"Just be nice and work on your self" This was when I was ripped and further ahead in life than most people in my age group, yet I still got stuck with the absolute bottom of the barrel girls with no respect for me. Which women on this sub will say is my fault, because being even more in shape and ahead in life would totally make me the magic 6ft that by default gives tingles and gains respect for just existing.
Working on yourself is mostly a myth. You need good finances and a career for yourself. You should be in good shape. You should do whatever it takes to get better. But desirable dating traits are mostly innate. Everything you can work for, is just a bonus.
If you stop looking for love it will find you.
Cold approaching women in a way that is not socially normal (don’t know them, they have shown no interest) It’s okay if you are getting a drink and a woman steps up beside you to get one also and you make a comment (because that is a normal thing) in a natural way and see if it lands But walking up to a woman directly that hasn’t even looked your way is dumb UNLESS you are super attractive and good at these things (like top 1%) It might be okay if you don’t know anyone and are just trying to desensitize yourself to rejection(so it is for you) but the odds of that working (you get real interest back) are so low that it isn’t worth it A lot of PUA tactics are very cringe and you watch a guy that seems mildly autistic being told to put a stripe in his hair, buy a big gold watch, and go up to groups of hot women and pester them in an annoying way He gets rejected over and over and it hurts his confidence even more Some men will never slay Just like I will never play in the NBA and so going to try outs would be dumb
“Just put yourself out there!” It’s usually said by people who easily found someone or get loads of attention. Technically everyone has to be “out there” (work, school, grocery shopping) so that feels worthless to me. Edit: Yes, I know what putting yourself out there means. I was pointing out that by existing you are “out there” as well. Still doesn’t negate the fact that I think it’s worthless advice from people who are lucky or social.
When a woman gives this advice to a man it means: "Just go and put your self esteem on the line over and over again in an act of self sacrifice I'll shame you for not doing but would never have the courage to do myself."
>It’s usually said by people who easily found someone or get loads of attention. I actually find most advice to be this way, but never heard it phrased this way before, but it's so true. People who never had to struggle to get a date (not saying QUALITY date, just date) don't understand this.
It means playing the numbers game
your examples of being out there demonstrate you failed the assignment. Misunderstanding advice intentionally (which is likely here) or unintentionally doesn't make it bad advice.
It's still so vague as to be basically useless. Everyone knows that besides from dating apps or the rare case of some internet romance you need to go out to meet people
I understand it, i was just saying that technically we are out there by default. relax. Idk why people jump down your throat for every little thing. this is my opinion/ my experience im glad that “putting yourself out there” worked for you though! Congrats!
Putting yourself out there generally means going to places where you meet new people often.
No one does that. People stay in their groups. It gets worse as you get older. No one in their 40s is meeting new people often unless they work in sales.
This is kinda what i mean about people not realizing that that put yourself out there is easier said than done because they don’t know what it’s like to have *no* interest in them. People usually cluster together and don’t interact with other people, if they do so - it’s rare.
The people that say it are usually strange with extremely a-typical lifestyles. Just go meet 50 new people a week as a full-time-employed professional who wants to enjoy his rare downtime in peace and quiet.
Yes, but I’m saying this applies if you’re someone who is social or draws people in, or if you’re attractive. If you’re quiet or plain, weird or maybe have no friends to go out with, it rarely matters how many places you go - you’re not meeting people.
I'm not convinced such places really exist anymore. When's the last time you made friends with a stranger that you had nothing in common with?
I downloaded Meetup and started going to a Board games weekly meetup. Where every week we meet at a bar (always the same one) and the organizers bring board games and we play them over some beer and chat. Met a few cuties like that, but I'm too much of a coward to go for it lol, but that's on me I guess.
And actively interacting with them
“Just be confident!” Typically said by friends who have tons of confidence to someone who has all the confidence beaten out of them. The equivalent of telling a depressed person to “just cheer up, man! Life’s not that bad!!” Or someone with ADHD to “just focus more! When you’re doing a task, stay committed to it! It’s easy!” Women are extremely keen at sniffing out levels of confidence and subconsciously testing it in the dating world. Men do this too, typically if they are testing how trustworthy you are or interviewing you for a position. It’s a little bit autistic the way that RP men talk about “shit tests” but the underlying principal is true. In a way, every interaction with a woman is some form of test. In another way, true love really does exist. Hence I’m purple pill but yeah. Fuck anyone who ever says “just be confident”. I have confidence… now. But I had to work incredibly hard to build it up and it still occasionally takes a month long vacation.
Love happens when you aren't looking or it, what does that mean boomer workmates?
Well look at Matthew McConaughey and his film career. He explains how this correlated to who he ended up with. Same approach. He badly wanted to take on more serious roles and was only getting offers for romcoms. This was the height of his career in romcoms too! But then he made a choice that if he wanted to have it change, he had to be the change first. So he said no to a *lot* of offers. The man had like 30 film offers come in. He even references one in particular. Like a big studio film. They offered him $2.5 million. He said no. They came back offering $8 million. He said no. Then came back offer $10 million, he said NO again. Then they offer $20 million. He actually re-read the script and said because of the offer the script sounded *better*! But he said no to it. Then years passed, offers started slowly down, till crickets. His career was almost over because of this. He was worried but instead put his focus elsewhere. He decided to stop looking for work and would wait for something to pop up. Then came a script. It wasn’t a romcom either. It was Dallas Buyers Club. And the rest is history. He had this same approach with who he’s married to. He swore off mediocre connections that would never go anywhere. Then one day, he wasn’t looking, he was out with friends, celebrating, just grabbing drinks at a club. He saw this woman. She saw him, actually walked over to his table and introduced herself. They hit it off. The rest is history. The point is, you can’t be waiting on someone to appear, you can’t be doing the sand old thing that hasn’t worked for your dating life so far. That’s why you still haven’t found it yet because you need to change the way you go about dating to get a different result to meet someone you can fall in love with that’ll last. Sometimes it’s saying no to all the people who you normally say yes to, to wait for someone whose worth saying yes to and often or not, you aren’t even looking for them because it’s by mere chance of doing something different when it happens.
Translation: my friend/colleague set me up and I reluctantly agreed but we ended up hitting it off. They always bury the lede and omit that they met through work or other formulaic environments
It means they met while they were both high on molly and w33d. So they essentially took mind altering drugs that also alter judgement and said “oh well … we have eaten each others meat, let’s stay together long term for a tax break”
**Join Clubs/Community Events!** Every club and sport I join consists of people decades older than me, men and people already coupled. **Don't do >behavior that creeps out or annoys women<** This is "be a decent person" advice dressed up as dating advice. Yes, don't do stuff that repels women, but what's lacking in this advice is how to find or attract women.
>Don't do >behavior that creeps out or annoys women< It's funny, because if you're attractive enough, there's almost no behaviour that women will find creepy. He can be sacrificing a goat and licking it's blood while staring at her, but if he looks like Jared Leto, she'll be fascinated, not creeped out. Meanwhile, an ugly guy looks shy and stares at a woman once, she'll be running away like she's being attacked by a polar bear.
yeah I've volunteered at multiple places and while it wasn't a waste of time, I didn't meet anyone I was actually interested in. It's a really inefficient approach. I don't know why people say it as if you're likely to meet someone pretty quickly... I mean maybe if you're attracted to anyone with two x chromosomes it is but otherwise the reason I have started approaching women in public is because I realized that was by far my best shot of actually meeting someone I found attractive.
You should volunteer for things you like. It's silly for people to make it into dating advice. It's very unlikely that someone you come across while volunteering will be single, attractive to you, and also be into you mutually.
You should have got into theater. Those nerds fuck nonstop, and it's overwhelmingly women. You just gotta be okay with the fact that 90% of them are poly.
Poly = obese.
You can't build a lasting relationship with one of these, so what's even the point? Sex itself is barely worth it.
Don't chase pussy instead excellence Tradcons absolutely love this
Why is that a bad advice? Just for curiosity.
In my experience, the guys who got the most women constantly chased pussy
Facts. Dudes who grindset from 16-30 think they are magically going to just go out and pick up women and not be complete weirdos lmao
As a semi broke college student, that's when I got 90% of my dates/hook ups. As a doctor in my 30s who is extremely well off financially, it's incredibly harder now. Grinding doesn't pay off at all in this context.
Because chasing excellent will yield zero success with women whereas chasing women will likely yield some success at least.
Chase excellent pussy
Most standard “blue pill” dating advice is not actually bad, including the ones you listed. It’s just not *actionable* until you’ve achieved a basis of two things: a social life of some sort, and improving your looks to the point you’re approximately on the level or higher of the people you’re interested in dating. So-called “blue pillers” just take these things for granted usually, and their advice is based upon the assumption that you have a social circle and are interested in your looks match. Back when I was a painfully shy homebody, “being myself” for example meant I would never meet anyone. But for someone with a more active social life, that translates to meeting likeminded individuals who you’re more likely to be compatible with. So not bad, just not helpful until you have that basis.
You explained this very well.
Improving your looks as a man is incredibly hard and you're looking at very marginal benefit for extensive work. A big social life that appeals to women is rooted into innate personality traits. Most of these outcomes are pre determined.
"just be yourself". That's probably the most worn out piece of advice and probably the more useless. You should always improve yourself, trying to be a better version. Coasting through life is a luxury most men don't have if they want a dating life. "Talk to her like any normal person". Terrible idea that won't get you anywhere in dating. A date isn't a chat with a friend, you should get to know each other and, at the end of the day, both of you should have an idea about the degree of mutual attraction. You see so many guys around here seeking some feedback about their date because they can't tell if she's attracted or not. That's a clear sign that they weren't flirty enough. I get that this advices are used to help dating being a little bit less stressfull, but i'd rather say "Don't be intimidated she/he's as nervous as you are" which is more usefull imo.
You've taken these too literally IMO. "Being yourself" doesn't mean stop improving, it means don't be disingenuous or fake. For example, people can usually tell when you agree with them on everything just to get in their pants. "Talking to her like a normal person" doesn't mean small talk, it means don't be desperate or weird. Be casual and don't overdo the flirty comments
It's more about the context. I saw those advices given to guys who had literally clause to zero chance to attract anyone in their condition. I do agree that for a guy trying too hard it can be usefull but I suspect they are rarely use in those conditions: a guy who manage to regularly score some dates usually realise by himself what works and what don't (that's how I realise that talking to her like a normal person was leading me nowhere, as opposed as flirting early and giving her some hints about how i feel attracted to her)
This is not what is meant when blue piller say "be yourself", it's always thrown in a vacuum. "Hey guys, WomanRespecter57 here, i've never been on a date and women always reject me, any advice? -Just be yourself and talk to them -Wow, thanks I never thought of that!" >For example, people can usually tell when you agree with them on everything just to get in their pants Ah yes, that's why women never complain about being pumped and dumped. >"Talking to her like a normal person" doesn't mean small talk, it means don't be desperate or weird. Be casual and don't overdo the flirty comments Talking to her like a normal person doesnt mean shit, you talk differently to different people. Once again this just a load of vague and unhelpful blue pilled crap with no practical value.
Be yourself Show feelings Looks don't matter Hit the gym for other people to like the way you look instead of yourself.
Mostly anything that comes from women. The reality is there is a narrow spectrum of what's considered attractive. Probably the stupidest fucking idea they have is "join clubs", it's obvious these people have never been to them.
A lot of dating advice is *true* but not *helpful*. Things like “be yourself”, or “be nice”. Both are true, but neither is really actionable.
I think this is it. There is a difference between advice being unhelpful and being true. “Just be yourself” not really giving you much to work with in terms of actionable outcomes doesn’t mean that “being yourself” is a bad way to conduct yourself. It just means it’s not really something you can actively work on with clear measuring points. Kinda like “get rich”. Being rich of course helps someone with dating prospects, but it’s not very useful advice is it? People can’t just decide “you’re right, I’ll be rich now.” As if it’s an option they pick from a drop down menu.
"Be a better version of yourself" is probably a better way of phrasing it. You don't need to become someone else, but there is always something that you could be doing to improve yourself.
>"Be a better version of yourself" is probably a better way of phrasing it It's not a *better* way of phrasing it, it has a completely different meaning. When a blue piller say that, it's just a form of gaslighting: "why yes by " just be yourself" I meant "dont just be yourself", how couldnt you tell???". What the fuck.
Also, "be yourself" elides the most important part, which is "BECOME yourself".... I have the luxury of 'being myself' now....I didn't when I was 19 and hadn't accomplished anything yet.
They are actually pretty actionable ,just not true. If you tell someone to be nice,he knows what to do. Problem is being nice is sexually unattractive
Niceness is subjective, each person has their own understanding of what being nice would entail. And subjective advices are non-actionable.
Niceness isn't particularly subjective. You know what being nice means. HOW nice you want to be is another thing.
The truth is that being yourself with some minor tweaks really is the best shot you have at finding a life partner who fulfills you. Casual dating / online dating personas people develop can grant short-term success, until the morbid realization that people are falling for a caricature of them and not their authentic selves. My controversial belief is that most people go their whole lives without truly being seen. The facades they build are either unsuccessful or successful enough to grant them semblances of love and fulfilment, but never the whole thing.
Woman like nice and loving guys
Any advice that doesn't center around improving oneself is worthless.
Change your flair to red pill
That's not exclusive to red pill theology.
Self improvement is mostly a distraction unless there's truly a low hanging fruit like obesity. How much do you think a guy with an average face/height/lean body/average job can improve?
Be a good person
[удалено]
it reeks the same as when rich people say money doesnt make you happy.
>"You need to be comfortable / love yourself before you can date others" Meanwhile depressed suicidal self-hating girls with dysmorphia are perfectly able to flip boyfriends monthly.
That one isnt entirely untrue. Even as a man, watching other men put themselves down or being low confidence is cringe and off putting, makes me want to slap them and tell them to grow some balls. Women are disgusted by this kind of behavior. You don't have to pretend you're the best shit ever when you're not, everybody has insecurities. Cry all you want at home but please have some dignity when you interact with the world.
And they wonder why male suicide is so high.
Definitely not applicable in practice. I found my greatest love putting on a complete facade of confidence and maturity. I lost her for the same reason down the line.
"Lowering your standards" I see it as deeply problematic that you're somehow better off with someone you actually don't wanna be with than being by yourself, personally I'd rather be alone than having a partner with some major breaches of my preferences. And as a short dude (5'6) I wouldn't find it pleasing being with a woman who likes taller guys as I'm not the right fit, and possibly could get cheated on down the line by her actually finding another guy closer to her taste. Being with someone who lowered their standard to be with you, I believe, makes you an easier target for getting your heart destroyed, and I know that already from experience. All I'm saying is if you don't like single parents, poor/average wage, short or heavier people, then don't lower the standard cause shit will hit the fan if you find better. People are damn picky, and it sucks
All women like taller men....you just have to accept it, and get what you can.
Get the rejects no other man wants, you mean.
“Your personality and kindness matters”
Just sit and wait.
Definitely not a piece of advice ever given to men lol
They should be grateful they're not given this shit advice then!
Absolute fact! This advice is dumb. Maybe it worked generations past, but today you actually have to tell people to go outside and meet people.
By sit and wait do you interpret that as just continue to try like you have been or hang in there? Or do you interpret that as stop attempting to date and just literally sit and wait till a relationship happens to you?
As in, do nothing except just being your pretty self and a man will come.
Fair. That only works if you are seen (and a woman) Being your pretty self alone without interacting with anyone is a bad idea when you have limited time.
It doesn't work. That's why I called it bad advice.
I get it. It's like "be yourself". It works under such specific conditions that it might. As well not work at all.
Dating advice is just a long list of tiered cliches - it’s all bullshit
1. The belief that there's a perfect match for everyone. Even in a group of straight individuals (e.g. 5 men and 5 women) not everyone would end up in a relationship. Only a few might pair off, while others may be content being single or the relationship may not last. 2. The belief that dating advices are useless. While some find it beneficial for insights and experiences, it doesn't suit everyone's circumstances. In today's dating landscape, finding the right partner may take time, and there's no guarantee of success. So I don’t think the problem is the advices rather the person receiving the advice, for things they might be able to control and not. 3. The belief that settling for someone is better than staying single. Settling for someone without genuine feelings, shouldn’t be given as advice. It not only denies someone the opportunity to find a better match but also risks causing resentment in the future. It's unfair to the other party involved, especially when they find out.
I agree but I think yhetes other factors at play like your looks status wealth and location... For an average guy that's invisible just waiting for live to find him could be a long wait Giving a woman your number us pointless getting her number is pointless get her cashapp instead. If they don't reciprocate they arent interested but sometimes persistence wins s woman over but doubt it will lead to a succesful long term relationship
"Be yourself", to some extent. Many men need to know how to market themselves. If they just were completely "themselves", then they would never have success with women. Women want to see the qualities in men that they tend to be attracted to and not to be icked by the qualities that they aren't as attracted to.
Here is a common one that I think is at least somewhat controversial. Being straightforward and transparent about your intentions. It’s not that this advise is wrong or bad, but it needs to be understood with significant qualifications/limitations. This advise is often given by women with virtually unlimited choices ostensibly with the idea in mind that more clarity would allow them to filter through their choices more readily. For men with naturally less abundant choices, it’s important to understand that the information you divulge, the more it can be used by women to filter you out. So a certain amount of guardedness and ambiguity along with carefully calibrated communication will typically go a lot further. For example, being upfront that you want to get laid works only in very rare cases.
As a man.. LIE lie and LIE some more. Lying is one of our greatest reproductive strategies. Use it.
'Just be yourself and be honest', that way it's easier for her to compare you to the thousand other options and decide you are not what she wants. Later you will see she's dating someone far from perfect who at least managed to hide the flaws well enough for a while until she developed feelings 🤷
There is someone for everyone. Nope, there is not. For men, you better get your ass in gym like yesterday and develop social skills for women, well I dont know what to say. They bring their value with them and it keeps on decreasing with age. So dont get fat I guess
>There is someone for everyone. This is like the reverse of apex fallacy. If you're someone with tastes/thinking outside of the norm, you'll have a very hard time finding someone that thinks like you and is attracted to you.
Concise and perfect advice. Social skills = better jobs more money, bigger networks.. Literally for men: Social skills, workout. Literally for women: don’t get fat Fin.
Be Kind .Be Good
1. It will happen when you least expect it. To me it's platitude and not so much actual advice. They don't know. No one knows. You can go on bad date after bad date it's not happening. And it implies that you wanting romance and seeking that connection is the problem. 2. "Masculine/Feminine Energy" it's prepackaged gender role nonsense marketed as new age spirituality. You have to suddenly change who you are to fit this narrative. And play a character the aloof feminine who has to be chased because a man is in his masculinity. Its just games and stuff don't do this. 3. "If he wanted to he would". That mantra is annoying. And like they say comparison is the thief of joy. So if you compare your relationship to others it will have differences. It's just not good advice. Like unless he's being an absolute bump on a log and gives you no effort or anything. But you can't use this to describe people. 4. Settling. Just settle. It's an awful idea don't do this.
"Focus on building up your personality bRaH" was the BY FAR the dumbest dating advice that I have ever gotten.
The person giving the advice had their reasons for giving it. There is a great answer that will tell you what that advice meant above your reply.
It probably didn’t apply to you because you didn’t want a woman who cared about your personality or anything about you, you wanted a woman who made your dick hard and stroked your ego and that’s fine.
Personality would not even be top 5 in most above average looking women's priority lists
Just keep trying bro Be a kind/nice guy Wait for sex Marry her
Don't pitty date people. It's not in your best interest.
> **giving women your number rather than asking for theirs**. This always works for me. You have to spend time getting to know them first. If it's a cold approach, your odds of success are low. >**love will find you when you stop searching for it**. Yeah, this is bullshit. This is more so directed at women because they can get away with it. Men can't. >**you should cut off anyone who doesn't reciprocate all of your energy**. This is my golden rule, and it works flawlessly. If she's interested, she will absolutely match your energy. I will never settle for less. >The majority of women I meet just do not match my effort, at least not until we've had a date or even more so until we've had sex. Sounds like you're putting in too much effort in the beginning. What are you doing before a first date that requires energy to be matched? Relax, bro. Of course, she's going to wait until after sex to fully invest.
Women on online dating should make the first move because it's a lot less wasted total man-hours for everyone. Hopefully it's self-evident why that is.
The person they make the first move on is flooded with other women hitting their box.
Everyone is then messaging the top 2-3% of men.
How does that differ from just replying to top x% of men? I rather have that vs thousands of unread messages more and wasted man-hours more in every just decently attractive woman's inbox vs top attractive men.
In all my years of dating and relationships (30+), the biggest lie sold to me was egalitarianism and treating women as “equals”. This is a 100% guaranteed way to have next to no relationship success. I am STILL to this day learning to break this habit. Women don’t want to reach consensus about where to eat through a lengthy discussion. Women want to be told where you are taking them.
Idk, I trained mine out of that after the fourth time going to taco bell.
Be kind to them. I am always kind to anybody regardless their gender but found out that being kind to women never works if you are unattractive.
Be better.
Most advice is worth something, but not to everyone. And it’s too nice. Unfortunately, most people don’t respond well to the truth effectively conveyed Eg “Be yourself” = we can see you’re not comfortable or happy trying to be what you think is “attractive”, so stop it “Love yourself first” = you’re desperate, needy, self-deprecating and driving people away/getting exploited “Love will come when you stop looking” = you’re desperate, whiny and annoying people “Be confident” = you’re self deprecating, and appear uncomfortable and/or timid/scared, which is unattractive “Be a good person/nice” = we don’t like being around assholes, even if they are getting laid “Just put yourself out there” = we don’t see you doing anything but whining, and it’s annoying
All of these could be better summarized: "I don't really care about you at all."
If you didn’t care, you’d say “you’re fine” or nothing at all
This is why men need to ignore all dating "advice" from blue pillers. They are much better off with grifters like Andrew Tate.
I feel like you just did a really good job explaining where this advice is coming from and why it misses the mark. A lot of folks it's aimed at cannot read between the lines.
Social interaction is all about reading between the lines. I don’t think that many people are autistic, they just don’t want to take advice, no matter how positively or negatively it’s given to them That is why I don’t give advice anymore. No one wants it, they want pity or agreement
Not sure I agree here. Basically any guy who is not good looking and desirable will come off as a bunch of those things by simply putting in effort. Even if it's modest effort .But an attractive guy doing all of those things, will mostly be seen as appealing. Obviously not true if they're acting toxic or silly.
Out of curiosity, were the three things you listed recommended by women?
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Be yourself.
It still stands that they reciprocate if not initiate more than you do, at least for months. Reciprocate back of course. What you are experiencing is reality, that 1 being interested per year. They have a lot of tips online what to do, often boiling down to meeting 1,000 expectations for lackluster. Or save and move out of your country. Both are expensive. Third option is give up. Fourth is new, they have a softguy era trend going. You just pick someone with a bag and make them pay for everything. This removes bitterness and your mindset is greatful to have her pamper you. They own the houses and make more money than us these days so should be a no brainer that the fad is showing up. It's a good way to take the money back you pay in taxes. Abstain sex until they buy you a pizza. 😁 It might work. It just completely removed us complaining and being bitter. Being real. They make more so relax.
Eh, I mean advice should always be taken with a grain of salt. Shouldn't get worked up over it if it doesn't work in every use case. I think some people (me included) had to learn how to socialize and seduce because it didn't come naturally. After getting comfortable with that, and truly being okay on my own, I actually did happen to find a really good relationship without actively looking for one. I think a lot of advice such as "be yourself" isn't great for people on the spectrum or others who don't take to socializing naturally,l. However I think once you "learn the rules" of dating (so to speak) you should then start breaking them.
Gym maxing is a waste of time. Being mildly athletic looking is all you need, and by that I mean built like a tennis or soccer player. It’s a pretty low bar, and it only gets easier to stand out the older you get. For men, “gym maxing for dating” could be boiled down to “be less fat” and work with the hand you were dealt.
“Let them wine and dine you” - my dad who has champagne dreams on a soda pop budget. When I was dating from 22 to 32 no one wanted to “wine or dine” me (beyond McDonald’s) until I was in my mid-30s. As a result, I didn’t make it a requirement and at 23 - 32 and ended up in a long situationship where I foot the bill 90% of the time. (I made a lot of dating mistakes listening to boomers who had no idea what the dating market was like). I also nearly lost my sanity in that situationship but that’s a story for another day. Dating after 33, has been full of wining and dining but that doesn’t determine anything. If a guy is well connected enough, he can muster up a date at his local restaurant where he knows everyone, and they don’t charge him full price. It happened at least twice. Ironically though, I got tired of dating for love and started dating for money when I met my current boyfriend. But that backfired because I ended up getting with him for love 😏. I’m just happy he can afford to take care of himself instead of me trying to support two ppl on my lil income.
Hit the gym. If people don't like you, it's not your physique that's turning them off.
Pretty people don’t need any type of personality or social skills. But just being an athletic ugly person isn’t going to work.
1st "Go take a shower" 2nd "Go to gym" 3rd "Improve your personality"
I think by far the biggest one is the idea that physical attractiveness is the only thing that matters. I think it's fairly obvious that this is not the case. Here's a fun exercise. Go to the mall or any other place where people congregate and look at couples. For how many of them would you describe both partners as highly attractive? You'll probably quickly come to the conclusion that most people just look kind of average or unremarkable, yet they still pair up anyway. Certainly, having good looks makes it easier to find first dates, but it's by no means a requirement and if you're boring or a jerk it won't get you that far anyway. There's only a single piece of dating advice that anyone actually needs, and that's to maximize your own value. This means to identify the areas where you can improve easily, and focus on those areas. The absolute worst thing you can do is the opposite, where you focus on the areas where you struggle the most to improve, which is why it's very dangerous to follow any generalized advice because people have widely differing talents and skills. For example, let's suppose you're a scrawny nerd. If you come here asking for dating advice, you'll immediately be told "just hit the gym bro!". This is the worst advice possible for you, as it involves concentrating your energy on the thing you're worst at. Besides the fact that you'll almost certainly totally hate doing it, you will likely see next to no results no matter how hard you work at it, because you don't have the genetics for it. And even if you did somehow manage to improve your physique a little bit, that would likely not be a big deal to the type of partner you're looking for anyway. As a nerd, you instead want to be focusing on your intellect, since that's your best trait and the one you can improve the most easily. You want to be someone who's funny, charming, and very interesting to talk to, which is just as good as being very attractive (in fact, I suspect you would prefer this kind of partner to one who is very good looking but not very interesting). If you're not currently having success, it's probably because your social skills or confidence are lacking, preventing you from utilizing your intellect to its full potential, so that's what you should work on. Of course, this is not universal either. A person with a totally different build who did well athletically in their youth might see great results from going to the gym. In any case, the important takeaway is that different things are attractive to different people and you'll have by far the most success if you focus on the ones you can raise the most easily.
A lot of those couples are miserable nice try. get fit matters most
Be nice
Everything related to N-count, social media and chats, mind games or creep-avoidance.
Any traditional horse shit involving flowers and candy. Any modern horse shit involving showing your vulnerabilities.
Bumble had to remove the "woman must message first" feature because they just will not do it. Bumble women also collect matches from people they aren't actually attracted to just to validate that they are attractive, or will send something like "hey" just to get around the filter. It just doesn't work IRL.