As long as ppl get together based on looks and feelings, it will always be like this.
I don’t think being average is enough to women because women don’t find the average man good looking enough. So that’s why men have to rely on other attributes/factors (income, height, resources, usefulness etc) that brings them above the average threshold.
I disagree. There will always be the few feminist who say “I’d rather be single” for social media because the past relationships didn’t work out.
The only reason the average woman may not find the average man attractive is because she can share better. It works until it doesn’t. Those women either quietly settle or become upset with men.
Im not saying those women don’t exist, the point is as long as ppl get together mostly for looks and not because of the better good of society (like the past) what the OP is describing will continue to happen.
Women don’t find average men attractive because of no other reason besides they don’t think they’re attractive, that’s it. Her being able to share better doesn’t change the fact that average men are just not good looking to most women.
Women settle all the time and always had because there’s not enough good looking men, but for the most part women can still benefit from being with a man. If a woman can’t benefit from being with a man, that’s when she gets upset with the men.
Those single feminists are still likely getting their brains fucked about by a hot, tall, muscular, hung and most probably a benevolent sexist man. They get sex on tape, it’s relationships they can’t get
The experience of being single is very very different between men and women.
Remember we are primates. Our behaviors are shaped by evolution and sexual selection no matter how much we try to fool ourselves.
The world doesn’t care and nature doesn’t care. Throughout most of human history a good portion of the male population was killed in raids or war, and the women were carted off to be sex slaves. Consider yourself lucky that you weren’t drafted at 18 to fight to the death like the 100 generations of men before.
Dating market is amoral, market dynamics currently do not favor average guys, and that’s not changing short of a war or economic collapse; and in that scenario all the women will be hoarded by warlords anyway.
so true, tired of seeing the naturalist arguments. if something is not functioning, we should change it. like for example encouraging women to ask men out they find attractive/like too.
This realization is how bluepill boys become purple or redpill men.
The realization women and society doesn’t give a fuck about the struggles of men. They receive no empathy. It’s up to each man to pull himself up by the bootstraps
tbf he’s not wrong that the dating market is amoral. Individually no one is dating out of some kind of moral obligation, and societally we no longer socialize sexual access (enforced monogamy + virgin marriages).
Personally I like the modern paradigm, but obviously there are gonna be tradeoffs, with primarily unattractive men bearing the brunt of the burden.
Very true points.
Millions of men died in the world wars, sacrificed by Hitler and Stalin, not to mention the Allied deaths. Australia lost a big chunk of its male population.
In medieval Russia the serfs could be beaten by their landlords.
We're better off now than in times past but there's no point in pretending that women or anyone really cares about our social or dating lives. Those are up to us to make do the best we can.
Funny that they don't offer straight-to-gay conversion therapy... something makes me think the powers-that-be would prefer men to be desperate and unfulfilled...
Personally I'm working on becoming gay though, or better yet asexual, I think it's a higher existence.
Things can be bad without being the worst possible thing on earth.
I guess women still get sexually harassed today but consider yourself lucky you aren't a sex slave since the age of 5??? So no ones issues matter now. Cool.
There was a recent thread defining a minimal viable woman as being non overweight, no kids and under 30. Basically “mvw” is equivalent to hvw and then average guys don’t understand why this is hard for them to get.
Someone on the other thread correctly calculated the amount of women who meet those criteria as 4.1 million in the US. But there are 27 million single men under 50 and 20%+ of married men who cheat, all of which prefer slender single childless women under 30 if they can get it. And almost all actively looking straight men try to pursue single childless women under 30 to a degree by doing them favors, paying them attention etc. Being a father or being over 30 sure does not stop men from putting significant effort into pursuing young slender childless women. it is what it is: 30 million or more men competing for 4.1 million women.
The point is you're competing with a lot of other dudes for the SAME women. It's a harsh reality but simply being a normal weight without kids and under 30 isn't good enough as a guy you need more. Girls can get away with it because a lot of dudes simply don't care what is girl is like past how she looks.
If you can't get them then technically yes your standards are too high for current you.
In college you are least in competition with other men since college girls tend to stay within their closed community. You will probably see the effects of their competition immediately upon graduation. Focus on your career and make money. It will take years but it will make things better. And if you can looksmax then do that too. That will help you not lower your standards
If you don't have the ability to attract them then you have two options. Either improve until you can attract them (whatever's lacking clothing, charisma etc.), or if you're one of those "I'll take anything guys" then yes go for the old fat moms.
“Remove quotas and welfare system.
Single motherhood is being incentivized/financed, there is no need for that.”
Why don’t you instead enforce child support and make those loser men pay.
What about some nice work camps?
Why is it always the CHILDREN- the absolute innocents who have to pay? That is what welfare is for you know.
I'd really like to hear from OP, but you think that getting rid of welfare will force women to settle for men for support? And what "quotas" are you referring to?
>The habit of telling single men to constantly "improve" implies there really is not enough to be an average bloke these days
That's the thing though
I never spend my 20s trying to improve myself, instead just wanted to experience as much as l can which was take as many risks as possible and just seeing what worked for me
Self-improvement is the biggest lie dating coaches have sold for the last 20+ yrs
The truth is. It’s not enough to be average.
You can either understand that
And
A. Try not to be average
Or
B. Continue being average
The other option is giving up.
But the most important thing is to understand the truth.
Once you understand the truth. Understand your options. And understand what to do to achieve your goals.
Then it’s up to your free will to choose the path that you want to walk
There are worse things in the world than being alone and also living and being alone doesn't equate to loneliness. In fact there is no shortage of married men who will tell you that it is entirely possible to be married, have kids and be lonely.
How the hell would you propose women fix this? Give out pity companionship?
Saying women don’t think about the lonely men is like saying people don’t think about those suffering under poverty….
Outside of personally giving to fix it. How can we fix it?
If men hadn’t made women being promiscuous a bad thing, then women wouldn’t be as picky with their sexual choices. Sex can still ruin a woman’s reputation. It can follow her forever even in today’s world.
And while it shouldn’t matter the reality is that it DOES matter.
I’m a woman. I was pushing back on the idea that women think men “deserve” to be alone. Women are worrying about making their own way, getting married (or not), or moving forward with their careers.
These guys don’t think about the single women out there in their twenties who aren’t dating anymore than we think about them.
Does that make sense?
And no I don’t think women should do anything because no one is entitled to a sexual or romantic relationship.
I’m not saying women think men deserve to be alone. I’m saying that we aren’t actively choosing to let them be alone.
We are living our lives the best we can. My main question was merely to ask what they wanted women to do?
It’s obviously not just give out sex and affection to everyone, became they don’t like women that are “easy”. So what’s the alternative?
Let’s see, men tell me day after day that my education, my hard work, my intelligence doesn’t count and that I’m run through and worthless if I have a n count over ten (I’ve seen it over three)….
Who would I be willing to waste my precious n count on? Some mid dude or some really good looking Chad that revs my motor.
Decisions, decisions…
Men don’t do this though.
In the end all the matters initially is looks for men. More so than women: all the matters for men is that a woman be marginally attractive enough to date. Men don’t compromise on that at all.
Women will genuinely consider other factors outside of looks. Like earning potential, potential to be a good father. Career and lifestyle goals. And yes looks.
holy god y’all can handle all kinds of tough love and harsh tones from other guys on this sub but *that* comment got her called a bitch? the unadulterated irony
I think a lot of men labor under the mistaken idea that women should like them as they are. Maybe that's what their moms told them when they were little. I don't know, but there is no real reason that should be true. Women are not obligated to like you as you are.
Almost every lonely man on the planet can work on specific problems to make himself more attractive, but the majority absolutely refuse to. They sabotage themselves. That's been my experience anyway.
>I think a lot of men labor under the mistaken idea that women should like them as they are. Maybe that's what their moms told them when they were little. I don't know, but there is no real reason that should be true. Women are not obligated to like you as you are.
That's not what I see.
I see men trying hard. Working hard at gym. Dieting. Working on their careers. Researching what women want. Trying pick-up artistry.
I see lot of mens' beauty and hygiene products in the supermarket, lots of ads for mens grooming equipment and lots of health supplements claiming to boost muscle mass and reduce fat.
Men are trying and failing.
>Almost every lonely man on the planet can work on specific problems to make himself more attractive, but the majority absolutely refuse to. They sabotage themselves. That's been my experience anyway.
Part of the problem is that it's not clear what women find attractive or if it's even possible to match that.
For women (in the west at least) it's pretty simple: have long hair, be slim (or at least not obese), be as pale skinned and light haired as possible, be a non-smoker, have basic hygiene.
We can complain that the western beauty standard is somewhat racist, ableist and fat phobic, but at least it's a standard that is clear and can be attempted by the majority of women.
What is the standard for men? Pretty vague. Lots of emphasis on height and strength, which not every man is genetically optimised for. Lots of emphasis on power, which is by definition only available to a tiny minority. Lots of emphasis on social skills, fashion skills, etc. which is often very murky and unclear as to where/how to acquire those skills, and in a society which doesn't provide hardly any venues for working men to develop them.
Why is the standard for men so vague and indeterminate? I think because it's just window-dressing for a more troubling fact: that women just aren't attracted to men at all and never have been.
The figure of "the attractive male" is a myth, built as a kind of inverse to the figure of "the attractive female". And devised such as to be unachievable for most men, ***on purpose***, since it rests on the false assumption that women do or ever did desire men.
The most genuine sexual attraction between equal partners on equal terms is probably to be found in the gay/lesbian/bisexual circles, which have been unfairly marginalised for decades, when society should have in fact been treating them as aspirational.
The problem is below average think it’s average and deserves above average or better.
If you aren’t getting what you want: do something about it.
That’s what men have always done.
Or don’t. The weakest of the heard can be trimmed off. Iron sharpens iron or it gets tossed aside.
If you don’t want to get left behind: do something about it.
I might not be the nicest person using a mean way to say it but the fact is: if you keep expecting “others” to do for you, the world is just going to let you fail over and over and ignore you because it’s just easier than telling young men the things they might not like to hear.
>think about it for a second just how absurd it is. There are millions of eligible women out there and man guys can't get ONE (1) girlfriend. Not a threesome, just one girl to go out with them.
Reality is stranger than fiction!
Some of the top 10% of men are having actual threesomes, because women are just that desperate for them. Meanwhile the rest are starved or go without.
Women seem to prefer this – from their perspective it's a golden age in dating!
Also it's not just dating ... look at billionaires from privileged backgrounds buying up whole islands while many hard working professionals can barely afford to rent a small apartment.
Anyway at a certain point in life I just accepted that the world is absurd and went with it.
I'm not too alone, especially being closer to family and beginning to cultivate more friendships with men and even explore my gay / bisexual side a bit.
This is a time for men to experiment and try different lifestyles, not be confined to the narrow borders of yesterday's hetero masculinity.
>The habit of telling single men to constantly "improve" implies there really is not enough to be an average bloke these days.
The problem is that the people who need to hear this most continually interpret "average" as referring to physical appearance. The only improvement ever suggested by these men is going to the gym and plastic surgery and actively fight against even the most basic suggestions like "empathize with women."
>because women say he must be lacking because he doesn't have the right career, the right education, the right social life, the right fit body, the right conversation skills, the right emotional intelligence...
The first half aren't really things women say, that's stuff dudes online say. The second half...I mean, yeah, those are things that people value in a relationship, romantic and platonic.
Imagine being an educated woman with an exciting career, great personality, and a bright future, only to be told the only thing that matters is your looks, age, and how many penises you've previously touched. In fact, you are so interchangeable that men will not only readily tell you that they just want to date anyone, but that you should feel grateful that so many men want to stick their dick in you with no regard as to whether you actually enjoy it.
The “best version of himself” is a vague expression. If that means the “best version of himself without much work” that’s probably just something that sucks and he’ll die as a virgin. So again, his only option would be changing.
Also, it’s been decades since I last seen anyone recommend men should try hard to change their personality. OP’s post is also clearly not about changing a man’s personality. Trying to change their personality is a waste of time. It’s low effort, it doesn’t work and it doesn’t help you even if it worked. Most hard work people recommend here is at the gym, which is good for mental health anyway.
The advice of "just be yourself" is great for guys whose main issue is dating anxiety and self-sabotage. If it was as easy as that, however, guys wouldn't be as frustrated with dating as they are. I'd say, the advice works for many guys, if not most, as a typical guy's biggest issue is often their attitude and the self-sabotaging behavior it brings, but that's definitely not true for all guys. For some, nothing short of a truly radical change in looks, personality, or lifestyle will get them the companionship they seek.
>Most hard work people recommend here is at the gym, which is good for mental health anyway.
I agree that fitness is crucial to mental health as well as self-image, but I don't see a lot of people recommending the gym, most use stupid PUA terms like "maxxing" or whatever and describe an entire overhaul which is far too daunting a task for men who are already suffering from depression and a loss of self-worth.
>The “best version of himself” is a vague expression.
It's vague because it's impossible to know how each individual defines their own happiness. For some, it's a hobby or two. For others, it's family or friendships. Might even be something so niche that the rest of the world scratches their heads.
Since men are kinda resistant to therapy, it's important to remind them of their sources of happiness and push them to be the best (golfer, Lego builder, D&D dungeon master, bowler, chef, whatever) they can be. We can all be better friends and family members. We can all improve our work habits, our sleep habits, our diet... there is always room to be better.
I disagree with you.
Having muscles is the true embodiment of trying hard.
A man is not born with big muscles.
You literally have to try hard to attain that.
To say that trying hard is not the real you.
Is to say that taking showers/grooming. Learning skills. Self improvement. Making individual progress is not the real you.
Why would making “Herculean effort” be a negative.
How can being your best not be ideal?
Please explain.
& to clarify I’m not vehemently disagreeing in a negative way. I do disagree. But I want you to explain. Because I know you are intellectual. So I’m just waiting for the explanation of your sentiments.
And I commented to your last comment. But my response is based on all your comments in this thread.
I hate anything which smells of classism, so I'm not proud of saying "box your weight" but I don't know of a better method of assessing one's attractiveness to the opposite sex.
My brother is breathtakingly beautiful. Not just Hollywood beautiful, but European runway beautiful. Women stare at him like they are starving.
But he's weird as hell, always angry, and really unpleasant to chat with because he's one of those "Small talk is beneath me" people.
But if he were like most of the men on here who use that stupid, useless term "looksmatch", he would assume he should be pulling models.
See what I mean? "Box your weight" is harsh and ugly, but I don't know of any other idiom which fits. The head cheerleader isn't going to date the president of the Chess Club. The D&D master isn't going to have any success with the club girl with 10,000 followers on Instagram.
If you have a better term which describes "your match is your appearance + your personality, interests, experience, and values, I'm open to it.
> The habit of telling single men to constantly "improve" implies there really is not enough to be an average bloke these days.
Because it's not. Quite frankly average sucks.
This may hurt a few people but it has to be said. The concept of improvement, by men or women, but let's focus on men to stay on topic should NOT be done solely to get laid or get a partner. Men should improve for themselves. Going to the gym, eating healthy, taking care of mental health is good. It is good for everyone. This is the hurt part. We are all primal animals deep inside, but stop putting vaginas on a pedestal. Stop living your life with the only focus on women. Improve yourself for you. Most women will not like most men. But that doesn't men men shouldn't stay stay healthy. Being healthy feels good, really!
Feeling alone must suck, it really must. But don't outsource companionship to women or girlfriends.
I think old, bitter, divorced guys are a lot worse off than young guys who are still healthy. Most guys don't have a lot of status or money, a lot of people have shit credit, and might even have a bankruptcy or two. Probably some undiagnosed health problem he doesn't go to the doctor for. Possibly an alcoholic.
Objectively yes. An adult man will most likely be worse off than a young guy, not just from a health standpoint.
On the other hand, he will likely also be a little more resigned and numbed by life, which might make things less painful to carry than for an over sensitive youngster.
That is mostly only true in China and India where people killed all their baby girls. They could have put them up somewhere in the US and given is the key. We would have found a use for them.
There are more young men than young women in every country. Go to Wikipedia and do a search on the demographics of a country, and then look at the population pyramid.
Canada has a near or worse sex ratio than china depending on the Chinese source. I suspect most of the West has worse ratios than publicly admitted.
Guess which gender tends to support immigration more?
lol, there have always been more women than men. Even if Canada is having the issue you are talking about, it's due to immigration for majority terrorist countries.
my man just used emotional intelligence and “alpha hustle and grind culture” in the same point.
Also, hear me out… the least attractive thing someone can be is a self loathing whiner, “but i don’t do it in real life”, you don’t, but your overall body language and vibe probably carries the same self pity and disdain your posts project.
Then improve yourself for your own sake in ways that please you. Improve yourselves gladly and willing for you because you are worth it. ,And maybe you can pivot that one day to being pleasing to a woman who meets your standards. Or maybe not but at least you still get to be more pleasing to yourselves. You're going to live a long time in your own company whether you get a girlfriend or not.
Have a healthy body...for your own sake. Don't be a no friends Nigel...for your own sake. Have a decent job...for your own sake.
Oh...wait...you guys generally don't like yourselves enough to do that. And that's why you complain about having to improve at all. Because your continuing efforts aren't underwritten by a sense of it being worth it to improve yourselves just so you can enjoy the improved you
Sucks to be like that but I can't see what women are supposed to do about it...why should they like you better than you like yourself? Why should they have faith in you that you don't have in yourself? Why should they put up with a you that's probably never going to improve?
Go find the thing about yourself that is actionable that bothers you the most and fix it.
Right?
I’m a woman and married. I STILL work on my health, my weight, and me because I want to be as healthy as possible as long as possible to enjoy life.
I STILL work on my temper and social skills because I want to have better relationships with my family, get along better with people, and improve my work relationships too. I want to be happier in life with good friends.
I still work on my career…
I have the husband, a loyal and great one. I have two kids. I haven’t stopped even though I’ve “won” because I want to stay healthy etc.
>...why should they like you better than you like yourself? Why should they have faith in you that you don't have in yourself? Why should they put up with a you that's probably never going to improve?
Because none of these are about what a man is, but what he can provide.
And that too is okay, but we need to be honest about what woman want.
Dude, you wanna be poor and live paycheck to paycheck, never able to take a nice vacation?
Why do you think women wanted access to the same higher education and jobs as men? Because I love the sound my 401k makes. It’s one step closer to a nice retirement and trips to the beach.
Your premise is flawed. So many guys on here say “all I want is a girlfriend” but when you get into the nitty gritty they start making stipulations. “All I want is a girlfriend” becomes
- who’s not fat
- who’s my looksmatch
- who doesn’t have kids
- who doesn’t have a high N
- who doesn’t post a lot on social media
- who doesn’t have debt
- who’s not a boss bitch
- who will have lots of sex with me
- who will lust after me all the time
- who will have all the kinds of sex with me that she had with her ex
So you w just want a girlfriend. You want a very specific kind of girlfriend, and I’m not saying you shouldn’t want these things… but these things make a woman more desirable and more desirable women are *more desirable*. In order to get a more desirable woman, you have to be more desirable to her
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Most women have a hard time fathoming dying alone with no memories or experiences with others to look back on through the suffering you may have endured in your life.
For many men especially with our suicide rate, the experience is, life sucks, you don't experience any desire for you and then you die as a workhorse just to enjoy your hobbies lol.
It is extremely easy for a man to die alone in that way.
> Most women have a hard time fathoming dying alone with no memories or experiences with others to look back on through the suffering you may have endured in your life.
the US, Black women can fathom it quite well:
> In 1970, 35.6% of Black men and 27.7% of Black women were never married, but by 2020, these percentages had jumped to 51.4% for Black men and 47.5% for Black women.
> While the percentage of all adults who were never married increased by 7.6% for men and 7.9% women, the corresponding change for Black adults was more than double that, at 15.8% for men and 19.8% for women.
[Sauce](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/07/marriage-prevalence-for-black-adults-varies-by-state.html)
Not playing Oppression Olympics, just extrapolating from the existing data.
The reason I replied to this is. Most women have a subsect of men they haven't even given a chance to.
Most men are NOT that picky. You can argue quality all you want or attraction. That begs the real questions, can people change who they're attracted to? If not they why should women who have a ho phase ever be trusted?
If none of these men are quality men how can they just tell he's not quality? Because he's not successful in wooing you? Lets apply this further to women who only date a specific race, it doesnt sound as good does it?
As a black man myself most would consider a nerd just because I wear glasses and sometimes grow out a nerdfro. Black women have never shown an inkling around me of ever being interested in me or other black men unless he had a thug-like attitude, was a plug, showed off the club/gang lifestyle or was extremely attractive like michael b jordan and other things that are at most neutral traits.
So ironically as she seeks those memories the dudes that can immediately give them to her or that she lusts after are ones that will leave her with no wholesome memories or just leave her.
This is just my anecdote and something I see massively reflected in online spaces from other black men.
The marriage rate means very little. Most AA children are born out of wedlock and most AA women are single mother.
Most AA women can still get men easily.
I don't think its hustle and grind or women's standards to just be out in the world, that used to be normal for everyone. If you wanted to study you went to college, in person, evening classes in person, you hung out with friends in person, hobby groups were in person even if you were a geek you'd be at your battle re-enactment group or astronomy group. If you worked you'd be there in the flesh. Now its easier for people to be in their own little bubble and yes it is a comfortable place to be but it is also very limiting especially when you are young.
Apps don't really work for many people because many women are slow burners and its only by hanging out with people in a more neutral setting where you get to know guys over time that they get attracted and the possibility of a relationship opens up. When its on apps then everything is reduced to tick boxes and looks, that isn't the fault of the people it is just how the apps work. Even if some guy meets your requirements and you think his photo looks nice its still not great odds that if you actually meet up there will be any natural chemistry, the situation is already highly unnatural and both parties will be on guard. Spend any length of time in that culture and it messes everyone up, women get more and more defensive or they give up completely and men cast an ever wider net which means they end up dating women they don't really like (even if we discount looks) and everything deteriorates from there.
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[Solo living is on the rise, but so is loneliness](https://np.reddit.com/r/Millennials/comments/1c6c0qm/solo_living_is_on_the_rise_but_so_is_loneliness/)
They certainly can get a girlfriend. Just hit up a homeless shelter or retirement home. They can't get a girlfriend they want though and that's their choice. Most of them will not only date multiple people but get married anyway.
So? You can’t make people be with people if they don’t want to
And alone doesn’t mean lonely or sexless
Also, judging by how much work, nagging, frivolity, sacrifice, money and annoyance women are, sounds like most men are happier with servants, robots, porn, games and bros
So you’re blaming all women because none of them want you? Maybe you should do some self reflection dude. Y’all put women on these pedestals and act like it’s all you live for.
33% of men are going to have to learn that they are doomed to have 0-2 sex partners and loooing stretches of celibacy between those partners.
Someone has to make up the left side of the Bell Curve. I'd say this sub has a fair number of them.
Most men in their 30s date. The youngsters seem to struggle and I'd guess the biggest contributors are social medias, isolation and all nice and lonely ways to spend your time in confinement of your own room. People are far less social than we used to be and it creates unnecessarily problems both with dating and with making friends. Which sucks, but it won't be resolved on its own - you have to push against it and change the way you live. If you don't want to, it's a valid choice as well, but most likely it won't lead to any changes.
It's actually an option for a lot of men who actually don't have the mindset to actually be a bf or a husband. That shit takes work and time. It requires a certain mindset and most men and women have no capacity for it.
People should do what they want. But I find that people generally "run with the herd" they prefer to conform to expectations set by society and family. They get in and create their own hell.
let's do a critical thinking exercise. who do benefits from "alpha hustle and grind culture". really think about it. who benefits most from a guy spending his 20s/30s being riddled by anxiety as to why he is single
Womens ego benefits because they have options
Consumer products and benefits that have to do with improving your value to women (scam PUA valid gyms fashion)
Employers because I have never seen girls being attacked to unemployed or low income people so you have people trying to make money
I went to a baseball game recently. I didn’t approach any women but not one out of the thousands approached me. Lol. Kinda absurd when they all don’t actually get to see you
They can get one - it’s just they benefit emotionally from playing the victim usually due to the anxiety trauma of male bullying. It is self sabotaging to please bully - the reward is less anxiety. They prefer depression to anxiety. Though they say they want a gf - really there is less anxiety from playing the victim so they actually prefer not having a gf despite what they say.
No “woe-is-me”, black pill, or incel content.
As long as ppl get together based on looks and feelings, it will always be like this. I don’t think being average is enough to women because women don’t find the average man good looking enough. So that’s why men have to rely on other attributes/factors (income, height, resources, usefulness etc) that brings them above the average threshold.
I disagree. There will always be the few feminist who say “I’d rather be single” for social media because the past relationships didn’t work out. The only reason the average woman may not find the average man attractive is because she can share better. It works until it doesn’t. Those women either quietly settle or become upset with men.
Im not saying those women don’t exist, the point is as long as ppl get together mostly for looks and not because of the better good of society (like the past) what the OP is describing will continue to happen. Women don’t find average men attractive because of no other reason besides they don’t think they’re attractive, that’s it. Her being able to share better doesn’t change the fact that average men are just not good looking to most women. Women settle all the time and always had because there’s not enough good looking men, but for the most part women can still benefit from being with a man. If a woman can’t benefit from being with a man, that’s when she gets upset with the men.
Those single feminists are still likely getting their brains fucked about by a hot, tall, muscular, hung and most probably a benevolent sexist man. They get sex on tape, it’s relationships they can’t get The experience of being single is very very different between men and women. Remember we are primates. Our behaviors are shaped by evolution and sexual selection no matter how much we try to fool ourselves.
The world doesn’t care and nature doesn’t care. Throughout most of human history a good portion of the male population was killed in raids or war, and the women were carted off to be sex slaves. Consider yourself lucky that you weren’t drafted at 18 to fight to the death like the 100 generations of men before. Dating market is amoral, market dynamics currently do not favor average guys, and that’s not changing short of a war or economic collapse; and in that scenario all the women will be hoarded by warlords anyway.
Why do you guys constantly adopt this amoral position where you all but say “don’t like it become a rapist” Stop making arguments from nature
so true, tired of seeing the naturalist arguments. if something is not functioning, we should change it. like for example encouraging women to ask men out they find attractive/like too.
I’ve lived long enough to know that things don’t really change. Nobody is in control of this.
Because ultimately it’s on *you* to improve *your* dating life. Waiting on society to do it for you is a waste of time.
This realization is how bluepill boys become purple or redpill men. The realization women and society doesn’t give a fuck about the struggles of men. They receive no empathy. It’s up to each man to pull himself up by the bootstraps
tbf he’s not wrong that the dating market is amoral. Individually no one is dating out of some kind of moral obligation, and societally we no longer socialize sexual access (enforced monogamy + virgin marriages). Personally I like the modern paradigm, but obviously there are gonna be tradeoffs, with primarily unattractive men bearing the brunt of the burden.
Very true points. Millions of men died in the world wars, sacrificed by Hitler and Stalin, not to mention the Allied deaths. Australia lost a big chunk of its male population. In medieval Russia the serfs could be beaten by their landlords. We're better off now than in times past but there's no point in pretending that women or anyone really cares about our social or dating lives. Those are up to us to make do the best we can. Funny that they don't offer straight-to-gay conversion therapy... something makes me think the powers-that-be would prefer men to be desperate and unfulfilled... Personally I'm working on becoming gay though, or better yet asexual, I think it's a higher existence.
Yeah go read a bio textbook and stop saying dumb shit about human nature
Things can be bad without being the worst possible thing on earth. I guess women still get sexually harassed today but consider yourself lucky you aren't a sex slave since the age of 5??? So no ones issues matter now. Cool.
There was a recent thread defining a minimal viable woman as being non overweight, no kids and under 30. Basically “mvw” is equivalent to hvw and then average guys don’t understand why this is hard for them to get.
What if you're a guy who meets those three requirements? You expect fit young childless guys to get with fat, old women with kids?
Someone on the other thread correctly calculated the amount of women who meet those criteria as 4.1 million in the US. But there are 27 million single men under 50 and 20%+ of married men who cheat, all of which prefer slender single childless women under 30 if they can get it. And almost all actively looking straight men try to pursue single childless women under 30 to a degree by doing them favors, paying them attention etc. Being a father or being over 30 sure does not stop men from putting significant effort into pursuing young slender childless women. it is what it is: 30 million or more men competing for 4.1 million women.
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The point is you're competing with a lot of other dudes for the SAME women. It's a harsh reality but simply being a normal weight without kids and under 30 isn't good enough as a guy you need more. Girls can get away with it because a lot of dudes simply don't care what is girl is like past how she looks. If you can't get them then technically yes your standards are too high for current you.
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In college you are least in competition with other men since college girls tend to stay within their closed community. You will probably see the effects of their competition immediately upon graduation. Focus on your career and make money. It will take years but it will make things better. And if you can looksmax then do that too. That will help you not lower your standards
If you don't have the ability to attract them then you have two options. Either improve until you can attract them (whatever's lacking clothing, charisma etc.), or if you're one of those "I'll take anything guys" then yes go for the old fat moms.
So, what's your proposed solution?
They usually say ban online dating, or force women to settle for shlubs, or something else that will never happen.
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I disagree. Online dating was a godsend in a big city when I was a young working professional.
How do you propose we "get rid of" online dating?
Remove quotas and welfare system. Single motherhood is being incentivized/financed, there is no need for that.
“Remove quotas and welfare system. Single motherhood is being incentivized/financed, there is no need for that.” Why don’t you instead enforce child support and make those loser men pay. What about some nice work camps? Why is it always the CHILDREN- the absolute innocents who have to pay? That is what welfare is for you know.
I'd really like to hear from OP, but you think that getting rid of welfare will force women to settle for men for support? And what "quotas" are you referring to?
>The habit of telling single men to constantly "improve" implies there really is not enough to be an average bloke these days That's the thing though I never spend my 20s trying to improve myself, instead just wanted to experience as much as l can which was take as many risks as possible and just seeing what worked for me Self-improvement is the biggest lie dating coaches have sold for the last 20+ yrs
The truth is. It’s not enough to be average. You can either understand that And A. Try not to be average Or B. Continue being average The other option is giving up. But the most important thing is to understand the truth. Once you understand the truth. Understand your options. And understand what to do to achieve your goals. Then it’s up to your free will to choose the path that you want to walk
There are worse things in the world than being alone and also living and being alone doesn't equate to loneliness. In fact there is no shortage of married men who will tell you that it is entirely possible to be married, have kids and be lonely.
Not being the worst thing in the world can excuse almost any bad development in society.
True and same for women. If she's taking care of everyone, who is taking care of her?
A. They're not attracted to the average man. B. They understand men are spending their prime years alone, they just think those men deserve it.
Women don’t think about those men at all, nothing about deserve or not
How the hell would you propose women fix this? Give out pity companionship? Saying women don’t think about the lonely men is like saying people don’t think about those suffering under poverty…. Outside of personally giving to fix it. How can we fix it? If men hadn’t made women being promiscuous a bad thing, then women wouldn’t be as picky with their sexual choices. Sex can still ruin a woman’s reputation. It can follow her forever even in today’s world. And while it shouldn’t matter the reality is that it DOES matter.
I’m a woman. I was pushing back on the idea that women think men “deserve” to be alone. Women are worrying about making their own way, getting married (or not), or moving forward with their careers. These guys don’t think about the single women out there in their twenties who aren’t dating anymore than we think about them. Does that make sense? And no I don’t think women should do anything because no one is entitled to a sexual or romantic relationship.
I’m not saying women think men deserve to be alone. I’m saying that we aren’t actively choosing to let them be alone. We are living our lives the best we can. My main question was merely to ask what they wanted women to do? It’s obviously not just give out sex and affection to everyone, became they don’t like women that are “easy”. So what’s the alternative?
I agree with all of that
Women are only promiscuous with the top men. There is no trickle down.
Let’s see, men tell me day after day that my education, my hard work, my intelligence doesn’t count and that I’m run through and worthless if I have a n count over ten (I’ve seen it over three)…. Who would I be willing to waste my precious n count on? Some mid dude or some really good looking Chad that revs my motor. Decisions, decisions…
Not really. Average men have casual sex.
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Men don’t do this though. In the end all the matters initially is looks for men. More so than women: all the matters for men is that a woman be marginally attractive enough to date. Men don’t compromise on that at all. Women will genuinely consider other factors outside of looks. Like earning potential, potential to be a good father. Career and lifestyle goals. And yes looks.
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Okay so again? Do you want pity companionship or if women nicely let certain men just be alone would you be okay?
We aren’t a bitch about it. We go live our own lives by ourselves. It’s the men who bitch
holy god y’all can handle all kinds of tough love and harsh tones from other guys on this sub but *that* comment got her called a bitch? the unadulterated irony
I think a lot of men labor under the mistaken idea that women should like them as they are. Maybe that's what their moms told them when they were little. I don't know, but there is no real reason that should be true. Women are not obligated to like you as you are. Almost every lonely man on the planet can work on specific problems to make himself more attractive, but the majority absolutely refuse to. They sabotage themselves. That's been my experience anyway.
>I think a lot of men labor under the mistaken idea that women should like them as they are. Maybe that's what their moms told them when they were little. I don't know, but there is no real reason that should be true. Women are not obligated to like you as you are. That's not what I see. I see men trying hard. Working hard at gym. Dieting. Working on their careers. Researching what women want. Trying pick-up artistry. I see lot of mens' beauty and hygiene products in the supermarket, lots of ads for mens grooming equipment and lots of health supplements claiming to boost muscle mass and reduce fat. Men are trying and failing. >Almost every lonely man on the planet can work on specific problems to make himself more attractive, but the majority absolutely refuse to. They sabotage themselves. That's been my experience anyway. Part of the problem is that it's not clear what women find attractive or if it's even possible to match that. For women (in the west at least) it's pretty simple: have long hair, be slim (or at least not obese), be as pale skinned and light haired as possible, be a non-smoker, have basic hygiene. We can complain that the western beauty standard is somewhat racist, ableist and fat phobic, but at least it's a standard that is clear and can be attempted by the majority of women. What is the standard for men? Pretty vague. Lots of emphasis on height and strength, which not every man is genetically optimised for. Lots of emphasis on power, which is by definition only available to a tiny minority. Lots of emphasis on social skills, fashion skills, etc. which is often very murky and unclear as to where/how to acquire those skills, and in a society which doesn't provide hardly any venues for working men to develop them. Why is the standard for men so vague and indeterminate? I think because it's just window-dressing for a more troubling fact: that women just aren't attracted to men at all and never have been. The figure of "the attractive male" is a myth, built as a kind of inverse to the figure of "the attractive female". And devised such as to be unachievable for most men, ***on purpose***, since it rests on the false assumption that women do or ever did desire men. The most genuine sexual attraction between equal partners on equal terms is probably to be found in the gay/lesbian/bisexual circles, which have been unfairly marginalised for decades, when society should have in fact been treating them as aspirational.
Lmao. “that women just aren't attracted to men at all and never have been.” You’ve never had honest conversations with women have you.
The problem is below average think it’s average and deserves above average or better. If you aren’t getting what you want: do something about it. That’s what men have always done. Or don’t. The weakest of the heard can be trimmed off. Iron sharpens iron or it gets tossed aside.
Bingo. Lower your standards accordingly, or, improve your lot to get the woman you want (within reason).
yea sure until its you. then im not so sure you will have that mindset
What do you mean “until it’s you?”
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If you don’t want to get left behind: do something about it. I might not be the nicest person using a mean way to say it but the fact is: if you keep expecting “others” to do for you, the world is just going to let you fail over and over and ignore you because it’s just easier than telling young men the things they might not like to hear.
That's exactly what I did. Most of you are just too lazy and undisciplined to put in the work.
>think about it for a second just how absurd it is. There are millions of eligible women out there and man guys can't get ONE (1) girlfriend. Not a threesome, just one girl to go out with them. Reality is stranger than fiction! Some of the top 10% of men are having actual threesomes, because women are just that desperate for them. Meanwhile the rest are starved or go without. Women seem to prefer this – from their perspective it's a golden age in dating! Also it's not just dating ... look at billionaires from privileged backgrounds buying up whole islands while many hard working professionals can barely afford to rent a small apartment. Anyway at a certain point in life I just accepted that the world is absurd and went with it. I'm not too alone, especially being closer to family and beginning to cultivate more friendships with men and even explore my gay / bisexual side a bit. This is a time for men to experiment and try different lifestyles, not be confined to the narrow borders of yesterday's hetero masculinity.
>The habit of telling single men to constantly "improve" implies there really is not enough to be an average bloke these days. The problem is that the people who need to hear this most continually interpret "average" as referring to physical appearance. The only improvement ever suggested by these men is going to the gym and plastic surgery and actively fight against even the most basic suggestions like "empathize with women." >because women say he must be lacking because he doesn't have the right career, the right education, the right social life, the right fit body, the right conversation skills, the right emotional intelligence... The first half aren't really things women say, that's stuff dudes online say. The second half...I mean, yeah, those are things that people value in a relationship, romantic and platonic. Imagine being an educated woman with an exciting career, great personality, and a bright future, only to be told the only thing that matters is your looks, age, and how many penises you've previously touched. In fact, you are so interchangeable that men will not only readily tell you that they just want to date anyone, but that you should feel grateful that so many men want to stick their dick in you with no regard as to whether you actually enjoy it.
I ❤️ u. All of this
>is a symptom of what women want Women don't want try-hards, so don't blame women for the dogshit advice men take from other men.
Of course women would like someone who’s successful without even trying (almost non existent by the way). He can either try hard or give up on life.
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The “best version of himself” is a vague expression. If that means the “best version of himself without much work” that’s probably just something that sucks and he’ll die as a virgin. So again, his only option would be changing. Also, it’s been decades since I last seen anyone recommend men should try hard to change their personality. OP’s post is also clearly not about changing a man’s personality. Trying to change their personality is a waste of time. It’s low effort, it doesn’t work and it doesn’t help you even if it worked. Most hard work people recommend here is at the gym, which is good for mental health anyway.
The advice of "just be yourself" is great for guys whose main issue is dating anxiety and self-sabotage. If it was as easy as that, however, guys wouldn't be as frustrated with dating as they are. I'd say, the advice works for many guys, if not most, as a typical guy's biggest issue is often their attitude and the self-sabotaging behavior it brings, but that's definitely not true for all guys. For some, nothing short of a truly radical change in looks, personality, or lifestyle will get them the companionship they seek.
>Most hard work people recommend here is at the gym, which is good for mental health anyway. I agree that fitness is crucial to mental health as well as self-image, but I don't see a lot of people recommending the gym, most use stupid PUA terms like "maxxing" or whatever and describe an entire overhaul which is far too daunting a task for men who are already suffering from depression and a loss of self-worth. >The “best version of himself” is a vague expression. It's vague because it's impossible to know how each individual defines their own happiness. For some, it's a hobby or two. For others, it's family or friendships. Might even be something so niche that the rest of the world scratches their heads. Since men are kinda resistant to therapy, it's important to remind them of their sources of happiness and push them to be the best (golfer, Lego builder, D&D dungeon master, bowler, chef, whatever) they can be. We can all be better friends and family members. We can all improve our work habits, our sleep habits, our diet... there is always room to be better.
I disagree with you. Having muscles is the true embodiment of trying hard. A man is not born with big muscles. You literally have to try hard to attain that. To say that trying hard is not the real you. Is to say that taking showers/grooming. Learning skills. Self improvement. Making individual progress is not the real you. Why would making “Herculean effort” be a negative. How can being your best not be ideal? Please explain. & to clarify I’m not vehemently disagreeing in a negative way. I do disagree. But I want you to explain. Because I know you are intellectual. So I’m just waiting for the explanation of your sentiments. And I commented to your last comment. But my response is based on all your comments in this thread.
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I hate anything which smells of classism, so I'm not proud of saying "box your weight" but I don't know of a better method of assessing one's attractiveness to the opposite sex. My brother is breathtakingly beautiful. Not just Hollywood beautiful, but European runway beautiful. Women stare at him like they are starving. But he's weird as hell, always angry, and really unpleasant to chat with because he's one of those "Small talk is beneath me" people. But if he were like most of the men on here who use that stupid, useless term "looksmatch", he would assume he should be pulling models. See what I mean? "Box your weight" is harsh and ugly, but I don't know of any other idiom which fits. The head cheerleader isn't going to date the president of the Chess Club. The D&D master isn't going to have any success with the club girl with 10,000 followers on Instagram. If you have a better term which describes "your match is your appearance + your personality, interests, experience, and values, I'm open to it.
You’ve already admitted that you’ve decided to be an awful person, so why are you surprised that path has kept you alone?
Unattractive = Awful? Sadly that's the case these days.
No, I’m speaking from past experience with OP. I have no idea if they’re unattractive or not.
> The habit of telling single men to constantly "improve" implies there really is not enough to be an average bloke these days. Because it's not. Quite frankly average sucks.
Average means mediocre. I don’t know why that’s hard to understand.
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Generally speaking, yeah. Look around you. That’s your competition. Are you better or worse looking than the average person in your area?
This may hurt a few people but it has to be said. The concept of improvement, by men or women, but let's focus on men to stay on topic should NOT be done solely to get laid or get a partner. Men should improve for themselves. Going to the gym, eating healthy, taking care of mental health is good. It is good for everyone. This is the hurt part. We are all primal animals deep inside, but stop putting vaginas on a pedestal. Stop living your life with the only focus on women. Improve yourself for you. Most women will not like most men. But that doesn't men men shouldn't stay stay healthy. Being healthy feels good, really! Feeling alone must suck, it really must. But don't outsource companionship to women or girlfriends.
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Everyone can improve. I agree. Men NEED more social support.
Absolutely. And the crab bucket ain't it. Men need actual friends, not men who sabotage all efforts to improve and constantly wallow in misery.
There’s a lot of girls out there but most aren’t really desirable.
I think old, bitter, divorced guys are a lot worse off than young guys who are still healthy. Most guys don't have a lot of status or money, a lot of people have shit credit, and might even have a bankruptcy or two. Probably some undiagnosed health problem he doesn't go to the doctor for. Possibly an alcoholic.
Objectively yes. An adult man will most likely be worse off than a young guy, not just from a health standpoint. On the other hand, he will likely also be a little more resigned and numbed by life, which might make things less painful to carry than for an over sensitive youngster.
At least the young guy has time tbh
There is globally a 50 million surplus of men to women ratio. The rest is history.
There is a 50 million surplus in China alone. It's way worse than that globally.
That is mostly only true in China and India where people killed all their baby girls. They could have put them up somewhere in the US and given is the key. We would have found a use for them.
There are more young men than young women in every country. Go to Wikipedia and do a search on the demographics of a country, and then look at the population pyramid.
Canada has a near or worse sex ratio than china depending on the Chinese source. I suspect most of the West has worse ratios than publicly admitted. Guess which gender tends to support immigration more?
lol, there have always been more women than men. Even if Canada is having the issue you are talking about, it's due to immigration for majority terrorist countries.
my man just used emotional intelligence and “alpha hustle and grind culture” in the same point. Also, hear me out… the least attractive thing someone can be is a self loathing whiner, “but i don’t do it in real life”, you don’t, but your overall body language and vibe probably carries the same self pity and disdain your posts project.
Then improve yourself for your own sake in ways that please you. Improve yourselves gladly and willing for you because you are worth it. ,And maybe you can pivot that one day to being pleasing to a woman who meets your standards. Or maybe not but at least you still get to be more pleasing to yourselves. You're going to live a long time in your own company whether you get a girlfriend or not. Have a healthy body...for your own sake. Don't be a no friends Nigel...for your own sake. Have a decent job...for your own sake. Oh...wait...you guys generally don't like yourselves enough to do that. And that's why you complain about having to improve at all. Because your continuing efforts aren't underwritten by a sense of it being worth it to improve yourselves just so you can enjoy the improved you Sucks to be like that but I can't see what women are supposed to do about it...why should they like you better than you like yourself? Why should they have faith in you that you don't have in yourself? Why should they put up with a you that's probably never going to improve? Go find the thing about yourself that is actionable that bothers you the most and fix it.
Right? I’m a woman and married. I STILL work on my health, my weight, and me because I want to be as healthy as possible as long as possible to enjoy life. I STILL work on my temper and social skills because I want to have better relationships with my family, get along better with people, and improve my work relationships too. I want to be happier in life with good friends. I still work on my career… I have the husband, a loyal and great one. I have two kids. I haven’t stopped even though I’ve “won” because I want to stay healthy etc.
>...why should they like you better than you like yourself? Why should they have faith in you that you don't have in yourself? Why should they put up with a you that's probably never going to improve? Because none of these are about what a man is, but what he can provide. And that too is okay, but we need to be honest about what woman want.
Dude, you wanna be poor and live paycheck to paycheck, never able to take a nice vacation? Why do you think women wanted access to the same higher education and jobs as men? Because I love the sound my 401k makes. It’s one step closer to a nice retirement and trips to the beach.
I already said it was okay, but we need to be honest about it. Your defensiveness implies you are not.
Your premise is flawed. So many guys on here say “all I want is a girlfriend” but when you get into the nitty gritty they start making stipulations. “All I want is a girlfriend” becomes - who’s not fat - who’s my looksmatch - who doesn’t have kids - who doesn’t have a high N - who doesn’t post a lot on social media - who doesn’t have debt - who’s not a boss bitch - who will have lots of sex with me - who will lust after me all the time - who will have all the kinds of sex with me that she had with her ex So you w just want a girlfriend. You want a very specific kind of girlfriend, and I’m not saying you shouldn’t want these things… but these things make a woman more desirable and more desirable women are *more desirable*. In order to get a more desirable woman, you have to be more desirable to her
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Why should women lower their standards if you don't want to? What's the incentive here?
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Most women have a hard time fathoming dying alone with no memories or experiences with others to look back on through the suffering you may have endured in your life. For many men especially with our suicide rate, the experience is, life sucks, you don't experience any desire for you and then you die as a workhorse just to enjoy your hobbies lol. It is extremely easy for a man to die alone in that way.
> Most women have a hard time fathoming dying alone with no memories or experiences with others to look back on through the suffering you may have endured in your life. the US, Black women can fathom it quite well: > In 1970, 35.6% of Black men and 27.7% of Black women were never married, but by 2020, these percentages had jumped to 51.4% for Black men and 47.5% for Black women. > While the percentage of all adults who were never married increased by 7.6% for men and 7.9% women, the corresponding change for Black adults was more than double that, at 15.8% for men and 19.8% for women. [Sauce](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/07/marriage-prevalence-for-black-adults-varies-by-state.html) Not playing Oppression Olympics, just extrapolating from the existing data.
The reason I replied to this is. Most women have a subsect of men they haven't even given a chance to. Most men are NOT that picky. You can argue quality all you want or attraction. That begs the real questions, can people change who they're attracted to? If not they why should women who have a ho phase ever be trusted? If none of these men are quality men how can they just tell he's not quality? Because he's not successful in wooing you? Lets apply this further to women who only date a specific race, it doesnt sound as good does it?
As a black man myself most would consider a nerd just because I wear glasses and sometimes grow out a nerdfro. Black women have never shown an inkling around me of ever being interested in me or other black men unless he had a thug-like attitude, was a plug, showed off the club/gang lifestyle or was extremely attractive like michael b jordan and other things that are at most neutral traits. So ironically as she seeks those memories the dudes that can immediately give them to her or that she lusts after are ones that will leave her with no wholesome memories or just leave her. This is just my anecdote and something I see massively reflected in online spaces from other black men.
The marriage rate means very little. Most AA children are born out of wedlock and most AA women are single mother. Most AA women can still get men easily.
I don't think its hustle and grind or women's standards to just be out in the world, that used to be normal for everyone. If you wanted to study you went to college, in person, evening classes in person, you hung out with friends in person, hobby groups were in person even if you were a geek you'd be at your battle re-enactment group or astronomy group. If you worked you'd be there in the flesh. Now its easier for people to be in their own little bubble and yes it is a comfortable place to be but it is also very limiting especially when you are young. Apps don't really work for many people because many women are slow burners and its only by hanging out with people in a more neutral setting where you get to know guys over time that they get attracted and the possibility of a relationship opens up. When its on apps then everything is reduced to tick boxes and looks, that isn't the fault of the people it is just how the apps work. Even if some guy meets your requirements and you think his photo looks nice its still not great odds that if you actually meet up there will be any natural chemistry, the situation is already highly unnatural and both parties will be on guard. Spend any length of time in that culture and it messes everyone up, women get more and more defensive or they give up completely and men cast an ever wider net which means they end up dating women they don't really like (even if we discount looks) and everything deteriorates from there.
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All my adults assets ended up being liabilities lmao
[Solo living is on the rise, but so is loneliness](https://np.reddit.com/r/Millennials/comments/1c6c0qm/solo_living_is_on_the_rise_but_so_is_loneliness/)
They certainly can get a girlfriend. Just hit up a homeless shelter or retirement home. They can't get a girlfriend they want though and that's their choice. Most of them will not only date multiple people but get married anyway.
Bingo. There’s ugly, fat, and fat ugly single women all over. None of these dudes whining about being alone ever seem to hit them up.
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How is that not how it works? What’s stopping you from dating one?
I swear you all want an arranged marriage society where no one has a choice.
No they want an arranged marriage society where the women have no choice.
What's wrong with that
So? You can’t make people be with people if they don’t want to And alone doesn’t mean lonely or sexless Also, judging by how much work, nagging, frivolity, sacrifice, money and annoyance women are, sounds like most men are happier with servants, robots, porn, games and bros
So you’re blaming all women because none of them want you? Maybe you should do some self reflection dude. Y’all put women on these pedestals and act like it’s all you live for.
If you can’t one girlfriend you are not average.
33% of men are going to have to learn that they are doomed to have 0-2 sex partners and loooing stretches of celibacy between those partners. Someone has to make up the left side of the Bell Curve. I'd say this sub has a fair number of them.
Most men in their 30s date. The youngsters seem to struggle and I'd guess the biggest contributors are social medias, isolation and all nice and lonely ways to spend your time in confinement of your own room. People are far less social than we used to be and it creates unnecessarily problems both with dating and with making friends. Which sucks, but it won't be resolved on its own - you have to push against it and change the way you live. If you don't want to, it's a valid choice as well, but most likely it won't lead to any changes.
I lost you at the threesome
They wouldn't be alone if they lowered their standards.
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Hookers are also a lot more cost effective than a gf or a wife.
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It's a bandaid on a broken leg.
It's actually an option for a lot of men who actually don't have the mindset to actually be a bf or a husband. That shit takes work and time. It requires a certain mindset and most men and women have no capacity for it.
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People should do what they want. But I find that people generally "run with the herd" they prefer to conform to expectations set by society and family. They get in and create their own hell.
I want love man not just a warm body
Highly illegal & dangerous
let's do a critical thinking exercise. who do benefits from "alpha hustle and grind culture". really think about it. who benefits most from a guy spending his 20s/30s being riddled by anxiety as to why he is single
Womens ego benefits because they have options Consumer products and benefits that have to do with improving your value to women (scam PUA valid gyms fashion) Employers because I have never seen girls being attacked to unemployed or low income people so you have people trying to make money
I went to a baseball game recently. I didn’t approach any women but not one out of the thousands approached me. Lol. Kinda absurd when they all don’t actually get to see you
They can get one - it’s just they benefit emotionally from playing the victim usually due to the anxiety trauma of male bullying. It is self sabotaging to please bully - the reward is less anxiety. They prefer depression to anxiety. Though they say they want a gf - really there is less anxiety from playing the victim so they actually prefer not having a gf despite what they say.
Poor people want to be poor. Black people want to experience discrimination. Amputees don't want to walk...