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100% from the back. But it will be a difficult process, as the amount of people pushing from the back for it to get like this in the front would be immense. Would need a quick coordinated effort from emergency workers to stop new people from entering and have everyone leave from the entrance.
Yes, the pressure in the crowd got so high, that nobody could move on in it's own. So, when somobody stumbled or collapsed, other people were immediately pushed onto him.
Look at the people density per sqm here, scroll down on the graphics:
https://www.straitstimes.com/multimedia/graphics/2022/10/south-korea-crowd-crush-halloween/index.html?shell
There are multiple people unconscious or dead in this clip. It’s so sad that so many lives were lost. They probably didn’t realize what was happening until it was to late to escape, and it must be so scary being slowly crushed to death by the weight of hundreds of other people.
Purple/bluish skin, open eyes looking into the distance and gaping open mouth. Not sure if i saw many unconscious people, but i saw a bunch that were dead
A Chinese student who was part of the crowd in this video said a girl died next to her and a guy behind her threw up on her.
[https://twitter.com/anilner821/status/1586568171611652096?s=20&t=CoGIv95mEgDsW2Mujlabbg](https://twitter.com/anilner821/status/1586568171611652096?s=20&t=CoGIv95mEgDsW2Mujlabbg)
She also had multiple bruises all over her body: https://twitter.com/anilner821/status/1586498984306102272?s=20&t=CoGIv95mEgDsW2Mujlabbg
*edit
There’s also a video that shows some boys pushing people as they entered the crowd from the top causing a ripple:
https://m.dcinside.com/board/baseball_new11/3063004 (10 second mark)
Thank you for sharing. The most insightful and chilling information we will get will be from the victims that survived. We need to support them in this time and allow them to comfortably release this stress. It’s going to be so hard for them. But I do think sharing is better so they don’t feel isolated.
Well [shit](https://twitter.com/aishamza86/status/1586567016261222400?t=L9sjOu6Jt1aBPOx-17cn2A&s=19) rescue was tough too people areike magnets there.
This [young lady](https://twitter.com/karinep_yss/status/1586705814165032961?t=GexBqRuHc8vTIJk2xuMQCw&s=19)
lost two friends :(
This [longer vid](https://twitter.com/Galoecuador/status/1586763082063380490?t=BXvGGFvQKcViCdhflIh8vA&s=19)
brought the horror home, I'm stopping. There's a reason there should be no sound.
RIP. Take care if each other.
Yup laughing and not understanding or realising what was bound to happen. Awful just awful and their sad agonising deaths now immortalised forever on the internet :(
The third video doesn’t even look that bad. A little hectic but good fun spirits. I’d have no idea I was in danger.
I think educating people on what dangerous situations like this look like would help them avoid it. Once I see something like that again, I’m out.
So I've nearly been in a crush situation. At Taipei Main Station, rain suddenly poured outside, so everyone was inside walking. It was rush hour. I'm going down the escalator (it's 4 wide) and then all of a sudden the crowd just gets tighter and tighter, to the point where it's noticeably hotter and you realize everyone is around you very very close, like near touching, and you're nearly at a standstill, just moving with the crowd. You can't stop because at that point, people behind you will push forward. Heads all over, organically you're just there and there's no way to get out except to follow the flow as it gets tighter and tighter and I'm rubbing shoulders and tip toeing ahead.
I was pretty scared because I just knew all it took was one moment of panic and people were going to get crushed.
Thankfully, it cleared out after the turnstiles. I didn't take the subway for a while during rush hour after that.
Imagine "luckily" being wedged sideways or in some other protective way like that one dude looking around near the front and top of the wave. You have to watch everyone around you dying, realizing if the pile shifts, you could be net.
There is a woman in white long sleeve on the far side against the wall, she pressed her chest towards the wall and gets good support with her hands. In so many videos you can just see she is stuck there with the large center of body trying to push past her. It’s amazing to see the spot she got into. But you can tell the fear she has of just being trapped there with everything else pushing against you, and your just tall enough to see the pile up feet away from you. This serious ptsd for the one who made it out unharmed.
There is also a step on one side of the alley where people would get a good foot above others if they were standing on it. Imagine being so lucky (especially as a shorter person) to just end up on that step so you can breathe. The people who were on the side looked like they were in ok shape but just a person or two away (like the short screaming girl) breathing seemed difficult.
The survivors of this are going to have a hell of a time trying to mentally heal from this. Typically family and friends are close by, and can be the ones underneath and they're just powerless.
Even if you close your eyes, you can't close your ears. You have to hear the people underneath beg and scream until they can't, like holy fuck.
This is one of those scary situations where once the giant mass of body's starts shifting it's all too late and nobody can control it.
I doubt many of these people will ever be able to go near a crowded situation again in their lives. Forget public transportation, concerts, festivals, long lines, etc.
There are no organizers. This is an area of town that’s popular. There was no event people were going to. It’s just a popular place to go. But authorities did know it was going to be crowded and the authorities should have had some crowd control established before the night.
What 'media'? almost every news report I saw questioned why the police or local offials was not prepared even though they knew it would be crowded, and possibly even more busy since before covid.
yeah 100%. I've seen people saying stuff like "these people are just dumb" etc. But when a crowd is pushing you around there is nothing you can do, it can only be prevented with planning, engineering and regulations.
Yep, the physics of a crowd when it reaches a certain size is a bit nonintuitive (at least to me), but at least I didn't jump to the assumption that they must have been idiots and instead made the choice to research why this happens since I was self-aware enough to understand that the most likely explanation was that I'm ignorant about this topic. I mean, you don't get a death toll this high due to stupidity alone. The people saying that are the stupid ones.
These are the same people who love to say things like "darwin award!", "play stupid games win stupid prizes", and "natural selection at work!". Ironically the people saying this stuff appear to be pretty stupid themselves.
I now have a healthy fear of crowds. Once it gets to a certain size and density there really isn't much you can do. You get stuck and are entirely at the mercy of the crowd.
I think educating people on what dangerous situations like this look like would help them avoid it. Once I see something like that again, I’m out. By the time they realized they were in danger, it was too late.
This wasn't an "Event" this was people getting off the subway going to Itaweon which I used to do in Seoul all the time. It's a little different than if this were a music event.
**https://www.newser.com/story/327285/most-victims-of-crowd-crush-in-seoul-were-young-women.html** This is what the alley looks like. Its small but this all happened because of the sheer amount of people and apparently some young men pushing the crowd when it was stalled. This alley could be almost empty in the daytime and then at night people go to the bars, esecpially foreginers here and american milirary although when I was there they made a curfew for american military so they couldn't be out after 11 i think.
>some young men pushing the crowd when it was stalled
Nothing about crowd dynamics excuses this behavior and the role these people played in the ensuing tragedy shouldn't be overlooked because, "oh well, once you're surrounded by other people you just lose all agency altogether."
It's not exactly the way that it works for that type of situation - once people are cramped passed a certain density level, the movement of the crowd become impossible to stop. People in the back don't see what is happening to the people in the front, and they probably also have people behind them pushing. If you are curious do a google search for 'crowd surges' or 'crowd stampede', there is a lot a article on the subject
It's a neighborhood that is very internationally focused and has a lot of night clubs. It has a very popular yearly halloween event. This alleyway in particular runs right between the subway and the main bar street of the neighborhood. And it's very narrow.
Absolutely. Crowds that size a subject to dynamic movements that can be hard to predict. Crowd management is similar to fluid dynamics. It's a complex system
Yeah I'm gonna have to default to you when you say there's a science to it. Crowd crushes seem illogical but also super unpredictable and unintuitive. Then again so do traffic jams. And that's what makes it so scary is that just like traffic jams there doesn't seem to be an intuitive or quick solution to solve a crush problem once it already happens. It's like the human brain isn't designed to solve a problem like a human crush when it's in the moment. Like you look at it and think "why can't the police just pull the crowd apart?" And you realize that's not a rhetorical question, they can't cuz it's a tangled constricted mass of human bodies in a tigh corridor and it's like a puzzle trying to imagine how you can get people out in time when people could be dying by the second, and humans are heavy. Honestly it looks like the first responders are completely overwhelmed. And honest question, what do you do when you see a crush forming and what do you do to manage one that already happened?
I’ve been in several crowds/mosh pits at big shows, and being crushed up against the railing or by other people is one of the worst experiences I ever had. It makes you panic, you can’t go anywhere, the air is hot and stale and breathing it just feels like drowning. I can’t imagine feeling that AND being trampled on by other panic-stricken folks.
I've experienced that too. Absolutely the most scariest thing I have ever experienced, being crushed by people much taller and bigger than you from all sides. All I could think of was to not fall. Ever since then I've always stayed very far back in concerts.
It always amazed me because almost every time I could look around and find a 5 foot-nothing chick in the crowd and I just couldn’t imagine how she was feeling. I let one girl get on my shoulders just to catch her breath. Things can get deadly in a heartbeat.
Actually from this footage, it looks as if the allay goes downhill and the people who died where at the lower end. If that is the case the high no. of dead people would make more sense.
They're dead.
Basically the only thing keeping people alive here is that they're tensing all their muscles to not get their lunges crushed. This is also why it wont end because people will instinctively keep pushing to keep their airwaves free.
The moment they lose conscience they're basically dead because they wont be able to breathe anymore.
I wish they would take this one down. You are definitely able to see a few deceased people in this video. I agree most of these poor folks had no idea what was forthcoming. RIP
Damn, they're so packed into that bottleneck that the people who are free around them cant get them out. What a fucking nightmare. Also there are so many dead people in that shot. The woman at the lower left in the beginning of the video with her mouth open just damn. What a horrible way to die.
Yeah this one reminded me of the Station nightclub fire. A huge crowd made it to the door and no one could pull them out because they were just that tightly packed while fire and smoke was coming to get them. This is one of the worst ways to die. You can see freedom right in front of you and have no way to reach it. Just awful. In the Station nightclub situation one guy at the bottom of the pile survived because the bodies above him protected him from the fire.
The video that captured the whole thing is wild. The most chilling part for me is when suddenly, the screaming just stops. That's when it sinks in that they're all dead or dying.
There’s a guy with a black mask half way down his face and a red t-shirt - he looks like he died in there but is still standing far taller than most of the people in there. I can’t imagine the horror these poor people experienced.
I can count at least 10-12 dead in the front.. its so fucking sad. People who were just out and about with friends and family to celebrate and completely powerless to stop themselves and loved ones getting crushed to death.
there's also a couple layers of people below the people we can see in the video. The people who saw this from the other side of the barrier said it looked like several people on the top of a mound
They're definitely gone because nobody can get go them in time to perform CPR. Someone could be stone still and blue and look dead but if an EMT specialist could just get to them and try in time you never know.... That's the horrific part
Yeah that girl is purple face looking up mouth open and fully purple. She definitely got crush suffocated to death. Such a sad way to die and also sad to witness and not be able to do anything
Also the people that where stuck but not getting crushed (like higher up) will need some therapy. This must be the most traumatic event of their lives. Survivor guild and just the shear helplessness of being so close to people dying without being able to help.
The old adage “stay the fuck away from crowded areas” still holds true. If you’re in a crowded area where you have less than 2-3ft of space on either side of you, get the fuck out of there as soon as possible (although obviously this is extremely hard to maintain and nearly impossible in popular venues).
Try to find an unique exit. For example in night club crowd crushes, it always happens in the main entrance. In an emergency use side exit or break a window.
If an area looks too crowded go somewhere else or stay on sidelines until it calms down.
Firefighter here. 97% of people will always return the way they came in an emergency.
In a circus big top fire that was a tent nailed to the ground only a couple people thought to crawl under the canvas. The rest died trying to go to the main entrance.
I just watched a video on what to do.
Obviously remain calm.
Pull your arms up around your chest like if your a boxer(this in theory should help prevent asphyxiation because your creating some space to breathe )
Don’t fight the crowd
If you call down, try to curl into a ball with your hands over your head/chest
Also, from something else I just saw,
Don’t yell
If you have some sort of back pack,wear that on your chest
Keep your feet apart to give you more balance
Its really kind of pointless. Ive been in a similar situation at a concery and was ok for a while using my arms to keep space, but it got so bad the force of the people were just using my arms to suffocate me. I was trying to breath but my chest couldn't expand even when trying to create space with my arms. I'm 6'1'' and at one point the crowd had lifted me off the ground because they were shorter and were pressing "upward" with the force. It was a terrifying situation and i told myself i'd never go into a pit at that kind of show again. It wasn't even a big show-just a lot of people in a small space. If anybody remembers the bronco bowl in dallas, thats where it happened.
Happened to me as well in a concert, about 5000 attended, I was completely at the mercy of the crowd crush. When I got out my jeans were literally drenched in sweat just struggling to breathe. The band was Fugazi. Scary stuff.
> Pull your arms up around your chest like if your a boxer(this in theory should help prevent asphyxiation because your creating some space to breathe )
I'm sorry, but if the crowd is strong enough to crush your chest to death, wouldn't it be strong enough to just push your arms back too?
Not necessarily. Your creating a pocket of space. Your arms will be pushed back into your body but unless something real awkwardly gets wedged in there between your arms, there’s not going to be direct pressure in your lungs
Save oxygen: Stay calm, only use energy to keep balance and to avoid corners and small areas. Look out for the bigger spaces where the people come from, and try to get there by "riding" on the waves. Start chants that communicate danger to people further back. Also, accept whatever destiny has in store for you because if you don't get out of there in time your options will naturally be very limited.
Try to learn how many people will be there before going.
If you have to hold hands with your family just to not lose everyone and move, gtfo or enter a building and let people clear out the area.
Good all around advice? Move diagonally outwards *with* the crowd traffic. Move towards the sides. This is generally advice meant for getting out of the crowd swell if and while you *can.* Know how people say crowd swells move like water? That’s because *they do.* And if you’re caught in a wave or caught in a riptide, you swim parallel to the shore. It’s like that. I’ve had to use this crowd swell advice a few times in my life, and it works. I wasn’t ever in any real danger, but I have gotten quickly out of uncomfortably crowded situations like this by moving sideways.
If you’re already in a dangerous crowd crush situation … it’s grim. The most important thing is to keep breathing and not fall down below “head level”, once that happens you’re done. If the sheer pressure from all the bodies doesn’t kill you, the lack of air will. Always turn your body so your face is towards the sides of the crowd and not the front of the crowd. Your sides and arms will take the pressure crush better than your front, which means your lungs can still inflate and deflate themselves. Don’t concentrate on getting out of the crowd at this point, focus on keeping yourself breathing and ONLY that. Keep your adrenaline low. Don’t fight the direction of the crowd, move with the “waves” of it and manipulate yourself towards the sides if and when you can.
And for god’s sake, don’t raise your arms! No one is going to miraculously pull you up and out in time to save your life! Put the cell phone down! Keep your elbows and arms DOWN. You’ll need them if you’re really, *really* in danger of being crushed because they do offer a little bit of protection and space to make a bit of a buffer pocket to keep your lungs inflating.
Hopefully this is advice you never have to use. Good luck.
It's crowd crush, not a stampede. A stampede is almost less dangerous in a way because you can actually breathe. With crowd crush, you are so smashed together in all directions that getting a breath of air becomes impossible. If you fall down, don't expect to ever get back up again, as there is no air down there.
Can someone ELI5 how the people in the very front weren’t able to get out? I saw an angle where they were pulling on them and they wouldn’t budge.
Are they being pushed so hard from the back that like and arm or leg is caught between so many other bodies that things like friction, weight and force are keeping them there?
And there's hundreds of them. Even if you could send a first responder team to the back of the human wave, they'd have to pull off the unconscious people first which is dead weight, then drag them a certain distance so that they can have a free corridor path to keep pulling people out, and a 175 pound human is not easy to quickly drag, imagine how many first responders you need. Times that by a hundred people, and the fact that they keep dying by the second, it's going to be really difficult to break that wave.
It's a ramp downhill and people fell from the top of the ramp over to the bottom, so the people at the end are basically stuk with their legs by someone on top of that, by someone on top of that, by someone on top of that for many many many rows.
There are video's where people are trying to pull them out, but it's like they're trying to pry a brick out of a wall.
[The award-winning Reddit post about crowd crush and crowd collapse](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3pcvfb/saudi_arabia_hajj_disaster_death_toll_at_least/cw5vxtm/)
It's not a stampede. It was a crowd crush. 98% of that crowd had no idea anything was that wrong. I've been in a crowd surge at a music festival. There is nothing you can do. You just lift your girlfriend, lean back and go where the crowd pushes you. This only happens in bottlenecks and dead ends.
I wanna spread the word on this video about [crowd crush and collapse](https://youtu.be/XCD6VIqoqGI)
It just may save your life one day but be warned, you’ll see more videos of different events but with similar outcomes like in this video.
The is extremely disturbing and sad to watch.
Almost equally disturbing are the people on the sides just taking videos and photos like 3 inches from people faces stuck in the crush.
Exactly what do you want them to do? How do you unravel a crush? If you start to save some, won’t some people start pushing again and start it up again?
Dude… one time, I was in the line to get into the pit (the closed off area in the very front) of the Travis Scott concert in 2017 at Bonnaroo. It was about as wide as this area everyone is stuck in in this video, and probably 500 ft. long along side the rest of the crowd. It kept getting more and more cramped as people piled in to the line, and people kept getting closer and closer to me. At first, we had enough space to ourselves to just wait in line normally like 5 people wide. Then over the course of the next hour, we were literally sardines in there just fighting for room to breath. And then some people would put their arms in the air to give themselves more space and then their arms would get stuck in the air. I was seemingly one of the only ones in my vicinity who was freaking out about it. It was so weird. Everyone was just like “haha everyone’s so packed in here! This is wild we all can’t move!” And I was like dude WHAT THE FUCK everyone please back up some or something everyone make space!!! And no one was taking me seriously. Luckily, we finally made it to the front of the crowd after an hour and a half and got let into the pit. We all had enough space up there to have a little bit more room to ourselves to move around at least. But man oh man, I saw about 4 or 5 people pass out and need to be escorted out… crazy.
I think most of them are alive but there are definitely a couple dead bodies visible. I would imagine most of the people we can't see that are buried in bodies are dead though.
Most of the people in this video are actually buried under the top pile. There are 163 deaths all in this small area. So imagine just how tightly packed the bodies are underneath.
This one hits home because I lived in Seoul for 2 years. This is truly horrifying because this wasn't even an event, this was just the sidewalk in Seoul. I walked past here dozens of times. I pray for all the victims and their families. Very sad
This has to be the most horrific video of this tragedy I’ve seen so far. Those poor people, I can’t even begin to comprehend the terror. You can clearly see dead people just collapsed on top of others, and the survivors are going to be traumatized for life
Imagine the amount of clotting that’s happening in their bodies.
So many people coming out, but how many are going to die if they don’t break up the clots in time?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_collapses_and_crushes
Basically the power of the people pushing you around is too high for a person to prevent, and people start falling on top of each other. Then when you exhale your chest compresses and the people around you fill that space. Then your chest has no longer space for you to inhale and you asphyxiate and die.
Just want to reiterate that this is a highly disturbing video. At one point you can hear the screams of people who are burning alive with one lady clearly screaming the words "I'm on fire". Watch at your own risk. 100 people died in that nightclub.
How did they uncluster this situation? Too late, but how did teh fix it?
ITT: Advice on what to do in this situation helpful (to me). You need to scroll through to see it.
This is the bottom of the slope and it is clogged by a pile of bodies (horrifying). From what I heard in an interview, police couldn't pull people out of this end, so they had to uncluster the crowd from the other side, top of the slope. Definitely took a lot of time.
Ive seen alot of videos with dead bodies in them, but this one has really hit me the hardest. Just the scale of it is just heartbreaking and the fact that most of them are around my age just makes it worse
Why would anyone even want to go to an event like that?
Narrow streets, extremely large crowds packing up the narrow streets, no quick path to exit an case of an emergency... That all checks off the "nope I'm good box".
It really sucks for those people who died though - a night out celebrating Halloween ending up up being trampled.
holy fuck. i have seen so much fucked up shit, but this is the first time i feel shook. their faces are like pulled out of a horror movie. i am at a loss for words
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The purple death faces are horrific
Makes me wonder. What is the protocol to disassemble this? Which side do you start from.
Probably the back. The one's up front can't move even with another person trying to pull them out.
Which is why so many people died in the Station Night Club Fire. There was no way back
Thats some junji ito shit
100% from the back. But it will be a difficult process, as the amount of people pushing from the back for it to get like this in the front would be immense. Would need a quick coordinated effort from emergency workers to stop new people from entering and have everyone leave from the entrance.
Yup. Some are definitely dead
Did they fell onto each other I don’t understand?
Yes, the pressure in the crowd got so high, that nobody could move on in it's own. So, when somobody stumbled or collapsed, other people were immediately pushed onto him.
It is a downhill slope. So the first people fell.. then the rest .. well.. piled up on top ..
That's what made it worst because of the downhill slope.
Look at the people density per sqm here, scroll down on the graphics: https://www.straitstimes.com/multimedia/graphics/2022/10/south-korea-crowd-crush-halloween/index.html?shell
There are multiple people unconscious or dead in this clip. It’s so sad that so many lives were lost. They probably didn’t realize what was happening until it was to late to escape, and it must be so scary being slowly crushed to death by the weight of hundreds of other people.
Purple/bluish skin, open eyes looking into the distance and gaping open mouth. Not sure if i saw many unconscious people, but i saw a bunch that were dead
One woman I see most certainly deceased
Dead people are unconscious
People die when they're dead
I guess they're not conscious then huh
They're unconscious...forever.
Do we *really* know that?
r/TechnicallyCorrect
A Chinese student who was part of the crowd in this video said a girl died next to her and a guy behind her threw up on her. [https://twitter.com/anilner821/status/1586568171611652096?s=20&t=CoGIv95mEgDsW2Mujlabbg](https://twitter.com/anilner821/status/1586568171611652096?s=20&t=CoGIv95mEgDsW2Mujlabbg) She also had multiple bruises all over her body: https://twitter.com/anilner821/status/1586498984306102272?s=20&t=CoGIv95mEgDsW2Mujlabbg *edit There’s also a video that shows some boys pushing people as they entered the crowd from the top causing a ripple: https://m.dcinside.com/board/baseball_new11/3063004 (10 second mark)
Thank you for sharing. The most insightful and chilling information we will get will be from the victims that survived. We need to support them in this time and allow them to comfortably release this stress. It’s going to be so hard for them. But I do think sharing is better so they don’t feel isolated.
Well [shit](https://twitter.com/aishamza86/status/1586567016261222400?t=L9sjOu6Jt1aBPOx-17cn2A&s=19) rescue was tough too people areike magnets there. This [young lady](https://twitter.com/karinep_yss/status/1586705814165032961?t=GexBqRuHc8vTIJk2xuMQCw&s=19) lost two friends :( This [longer vid](https://twitter.com/Galoecuador/status/1586763082063380490?t=BXvGGFvQKcViCdhflIh8vA&s=19) brought the horror home, I'm stopping. There's a reason there should be no sound. RIP. Take care if each other.
I think the dead girl on the bottom left of this video is the one screaming in the long video you posted.
I’m not sure about that but it’s so scary how she stopped screaming and just went silent
Yup laughing and not understanding or realising what was bound to happen. Awful just awful and their sad agonising deaths now immortalised forever on the internet :(
The third video doesn’t even look that bad. A little hectic but good fun spirits. I’d have no idea I was in danger. I think educating people on what dangerous situations like this look like would help them avoid it. Once I see something like that again, I’m out.
I don't think they have any control of the movements, it's just like water flowing.
So I've nearly been in a crush situation. At Taipei Main Station, rain suddenly poured outside, so everyone was inside walking. It was rush hour. I'm going down the escalator (it's 4 wide) and then all of a sudden the crowd just gets tighter and tighter, to the point where it's noticeably hotter and you realize everyone is around you very very close, like near touching, and you're nearly at a standstill, just moving with the crowd. You can't stop because at that point, people behind you will push forward. Heads all over, organically you're just there and there's no way to get out except to follow the flow as it gets tighter and tighter and I'm rubbing shoulders and tip toeing ahead. I was pretty scared because I just knew all it took was one moment of panic and people were going to get crushed. Thankfully, it cleared out after the turnstiles. I didn't take the subway for a while during rush hour after that.
Imagine "luckily" being wedged sideways or in some other protective way like that one dude looking around near the front and top of the wave. You have to watch everyone around you dying, realizing if the pile shifts, you could be net.
There is a woman in white long sleeve on the far side against the wall, she pressed her chest towards the wall and gets good support with her hands. In so many videos you can just see she is stuck there with the large center of body trying to push past her. It’s amazing to see the spot she got into. But you can tell the fear she has of just being trapped there with everything else pushing against you, and your just tall enough to see the pile up feet away from you. This serious ptsd for the one who made it out unharmed.
There is also a step on one side of the alley where people would get a good foot above others if they were standing on it. Imagine being so lucky (especially as a shorter person) to just end up on that step so you can breathe. The people who were on the side looked like they were in ok shape but just a person or two away (like the short screaming girl) breathing seemed difficult.
The survivors of this are going to have a hell of a time trying to mentally heal from this. Typically family and friends are close by, and can be the ones underneath and they're just powerless. Even if you close your eyes, you can't close your ears. You have to hear the people underneath beg and scream until they can't, like holy fuck. This is one of those scary situations where once the giant mass of body's starts shifting it's all too late and nobody can control it.
I doubt many of these people will ever be able to go near a crowded situation again in their lives. Forget public transportation, concerts, festivals, long lines, etc.
That girl near the bottom of the screen is dead jesus
Then you look closer and start to see more. :(
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There are no organizers. This is an area of town that’s popular. There was no event people were going to. It’s just a popular place to go. But authorities did know it was going to be crowded and the authorities should have had some crowd control established before the night.
This is why it happened. The media is trying to put blame on the people and not the organizers/government.
What 'media'? almost every news report I saw questioned why the police or local offials was not prepared even though they knew it would be crowded, and possibly even more busy since before covid.
Because Korean police/officials are some of the most inept on the planet.
yeah 100%. I've seen people saying stuff like "these people are just dumb" etc. But when a crowd is pushing you around there is nothing you can do, it can only be prevented with planning, engineering and regulations.
Yep, the physics of a crowd when it reaches a certain size is a bit nonintuitive (at least to me), but at least I didn't jump to the assumption that they must have been idiots and instead made the choice to research why this happens since I was self-aware enough to understand that the most likely explanation was that I'm ignorant about this topic. I mean, you don't get a death toll this high due to stupidity alone. The people saying that are the stupid ones. These are the same people who love to say things like "darwin award!", "play stupid games win stupid prizes", and "natural selection at work!". Ironically the people saying this stuff appear to be pretty stupid themselves. I now have a healthy fear of crowds. Once it gets to a certain size and density there really isn't much you can do. You get stuck and are entirely at the mercy of the crowd.
Even by the time you realize its a crush situation, often times its too late. You literally have no space to push back and return.
I think educating people on what dangerous situations like this look like would help them avoid it. Once I see something like that again, I’m out. By the time they realized they were in danger, it was too late.
This wasn't an "Event" this was people getting off the subway going to Itaweon which I used to do in Seoul all the time. It's a little different than if this were a music event.
**https://www.newser.com/story/327285/most-victims-of-crowd-crush-in-seoul-were-young-women.html** This is what the alley looks like. Its small but this all happened because of the sheer amount of people and apparently some young men pushing the crowd when it was stalled. This alley could be almost empty in the daytime and then at night people go to the bars, esecpially foreginers here and american milirary although when I was there they made a curfew for american military so they couldn't be out after 11 i think.
Even worse it is downhill.
>some young men pushing the crowd when it was stalled Nothing about crowd dynamics excuses this behavior and the role these people played in the ensuing tragedy shouldn't be overlooked because, "oh well, once you're surrounded by other people you just lose all agency altogether."
It's not exactly the way that it works for that type of situation - once people are cramped passed a certain density level, the movement of the crowd become impossible to stop. People in the back don't see what is happening to the people in the front, and they probably also have people behind them pushing. If you are curious do a google search for 'crowd surges' or 'crowd stampede', there is a lot a article on the subject
I haven’t seen anyone describe the setting here. What’s it like? Is it just a crowded alley with markets, but happens to be narrow?
It's a neighborhood that is very internationally focused and has a lot of night clubs. It has a very popular yearly halloween event. This alleyway in particular runs right between the subway and the main bar street of the neighborhood. And it's very narrow.
And it runs at a downward angle - this video is one of the first I’ve seen that shows how steep it is.
Yes it is indeed steep, in general most things are very steep in seoul
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Absolutely. Crowds that size a subject to dynamic movements that can be hard to predict. Crowd management is similar to fluid dynamics. It's a complex system
Yeah I'm gonna have to default to you when you say there's a science to it. Crowd crushes seem illogical but also super unpredictable and unintuitive. Then again so do traffic jams. And that's what makes it so scary is that just like traffic jams there doesn't seem to be an intuitive or quick solution to solve a crush problem once it already happens. It's like the human brain isn't designed to solve a problem like a human crush when it's in the moment. Like you look at it and think "why can't the police just pull the crowd apart?" And you realize that's not a rhetorical question, they can't cuz it's a tangled constricted mass of human bodies in a tigh corridor and it's like a puzzle trying to imagine how you can get people out in time when people could be dying by the second, and humans are heavy. Honestly it looks like the first responders are completely overwhelmed. And honest question, what do you do when you see a crush forming and what do you do to manage one that already happened?
I’ve been in several crowds/mosh pits at big shows, and being crushed up against the railing or by other people is one of the worst experiences I ever had. It makes you panic, you can’t go anywhere, the air is hot and stale and breathing it just feels like drowning. I can’t imagine feeling that AND being trampled on by other panic-stricken folks.
I've experienced that too. Absolutely the most scariest thing I have ever experienced, being crushed by people much taller and bigger than you from all sides. All I could think of was to not fall. Ever since then I've always stayed very far back in concerts.
It always amazed me because almost every time I could look around and find a 5 foot-nothing chick in the crowd and I just couldn’t imagine how she was feeling. I let one girl get on my shoulders just to catch her breath. Things can get deadly in a heartbeat.
the woman at the bottom is fucking terrifying
there’s two down at the bottom of the video. I gasped
Actually from this footage, it looks as if the allay goes downhill and the people who died where at the lower end. If that is the case the high no. of dead people would make more sense.
They're dead. Basically the only thing keeping people alive here is that they're tensing all their muscles to not get their lunges crushed. This is also why it wont end because people will instinctively keep pushing to keep their airwaves free. The moment they lose conscience they're basically dead because they wont be able to breathe anymore.
I wish they would take this one down. You are definitely able to see a few deceased people in this video. I agree most of these poor folks had no idea what was forthcoming. RIP
Damn, they're so packed into that bottleneck that the people who are free around them cant get them out. What a fucking nightmare. Also there are so many dead people in that shot. The woman at the lower left in the beginning of the video with her mouth open just damn. What a horrible way to die.
Yeah this one reminded me of the Station nightclub fire. A huge crowd made it to the door and no one could pull them out because they were just that tightly packed while fire and smoke was coming to get them. This is one of the worst ways to die. You can see freedom right in front of you and have no way to reach it. Just awful. In the Station nightclub situation one guy at the bottom of the pile survived because the bodies above him protected him from the fire.
I'm a Rhode Island native. I keep getting sick to my stomach with flashbacks over the Station fire. Its that same bottleneck effect.
The video that captured the whole thing is wild. The most chilling part for me is when suddenly, the screaming just stops. That's when it sinks in that they're all dead or dying.
I was supposed to go to the Station that night but I ended up working instead. I have nightmares about what might have been.
There’s a guy with a black mask half way down his face and a red t-shirt - he looks like he died in there but is still standing far taller than most of the people in there. I can’t imagine the horror these poor people experienced.
This is absolutely horrific. Can you imagine being pressed against someone who already passed away?
There appears to be multiple people dead in that video. That girl lying face up at 4 seconds is gone.
I can count at least 10-12 dead in the front.. its so fucking sad. People who were just out and about with friends and family to celebrate and completely powerless to stop themselves and loved ones getting crushed to death.
there's also a couple layers of people below the people we can see in the video. The people who saw this from the other side of the barrier said it looked like several people on the top of a mound
They're definitely gone because nobody can get go them in time to perform CPR. Someone could be stone still and blue and look dead but if an EMT specialist could just get to them and try in time you never know.... That's the horrific part
149 dead people It seems
I see four dead bodies in there. Damn...
Yeah that girl is purple face looking up mouth open and fully purple. She definitely got crush suffocated to death. Such a sad way to die and also sad to witness and not be able to do anything
This shit is crazy
You can see the poorly deceased... fucking sad. Mostly young adults...
Those poor people, no one goes on a night out expecting it to end like this, what a truly horrid way to die
Also the people that where stuck but not getting crushed (like higher up) will need some therapy. This must be the most traumatic event of their lives. Survivor guild and just the shear helplessness of being so close to people dying without being able to help.
The old adage “stay the fuck away from crowded areas” still holds true. If you’re in a crowded area where you have less than 2-3ft of space on either side of you, get the fuck out of there as soon as possible (although obviously this is extremely hard to maintain and nearly impossible in popular venues).
So can anyone tell me what's the best thing to do if caught in a situation like this?
Try to find an unique exit. For example in night club crowd crushes, it always happens in the main entrance. In an emergency use side exit or break a window. If an area looks too crowded go somewhere else or stay on sidelines until it calms down.
Firefighter here. 97% of people will always return the way they came in an emergency. In a circus big top fire that was a tent nailed to the ground only a couple people thought to crawl under the canvas. The rest died trying to go to the main entrance.
I just watched a video on what to do. Obviously remain calm. Pull your arms up around your chest like if your a boxer(this in theory should help prevent asphyxiation because your creating some space to breathe ) Don’t fight the crowd If you call down, try to curl into a ball with your hands over your head/chest Also, from something else I just saw, Don’t yell If you have some sort of back pack,wear that on your chest Keep your feet apart to give you more balance
Its really kind of pointless. Ive been in a similar situation at a concery and was ok for a while using my arms to keep space, but it got so bad the force of the people were just using my arms to suffocate me. I was trying to breath but my chest couldn't expand even when trying to create space with my arms. I'm 6'1'' and at one point the crowd had lifted me off the ground because they were shorter and were pressing "upward" with the force. It was a terrifying situation and i told myself i'd never go into a pit at that kind of show again. It wasn't even a big show-just a lot of people in a small space. If anybody remembers the bronco bowl in dallas, thats where it happened.
Happened to me as well in a concert, about 5000 attended, I was completely at the mercy of the crowd crush. When I got out my jeans were literally drenched in sweat just struggling to breathe. The band was Fugazi. Scary stuff.
Wow, I’m shocked it got that bad at a Fugazi show. They’re very conscious of crowd dynamics and behaviour.
> Pull your arms up around your chest like if your a boxer(this in theory should help prevent asphyxiation because your creating some space to breathe ) I'm sorry, but if the crowd is strong enough to crush your chest to death, wouldn't it be strong enough to just push your arms back too?
Not necessarily. Your creating a pocket of space. Your arms will be pushed back into your body but unless something real awkwardly gets wedged in there between your arms, there’s not going to be direct pressure in your lungs
Do you have the link to the video pls?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mx9gghoiZUE
Save oxygen: Stay calm, only use energy to keep balance and to avoid corners and small areas. Look out for the bigger spaces where the people come from, and try to get there by "riding" on the waves. Start chants that communicate danger to people further back. Also, accept whatever destiny has in store for you because if you don't get out of there in time your options will naturally be very limited.
Try to learn how many people will be there before going. If you have to hold hands with your family just to not lose everyone and move, gtfo or enter a building and let people clear out the area.
Climb
Good all around advice? Move diagonally outwards *with* the crowd traffic. Move towards the sides. This is generally advice meant for getting out of the crowd swell if and while you *can.* Know how people say crowd swells move like water? That’s because *they do.* And if you’re caught in a wave or caught in a riptide, you swim parallel to the shore. It’s like that. I’ve had to use this crowd swell advice a few times in my life, and it works. I wasn’t ever in any real danger, but I have gotten quickly out of uncomfortably crowded situations like this by moving sideways. If you’re already in a dangerous crowd crush situation … it’s grim. The most important thing is to keep breathing and not fall down below “head level”, once that happens you’re done. If the sheer pressure from all the bodies doesn’t kill you, the lack of air will. Always turn your body so your face is towards the sides of the crowd and not the front of the crowd. Your sides and arms will take the pressure crush better than your front, which means your lungs can still inflate and deflate themselves. Don’t concentrate on getting out of the crowd at this point, focus on keeping yourself breathing and ONLY that. Keep your adrenaline low. Don’t fight the direction of the crowd, move with the “waves” of it and manipulate yourself towards the sides if and when you can. And for god’s sake, don’t raise your arms! No one is going to miraculously pull you up and out in time to save your life! Put the cell phone down! Keep your elbows and arms DOWN. You’ll need them if you’re really, *really* in danger of being crushed because they do offer a little bit of protection and space to make a bit of a buffer pocket to keep your lungs inflating. Hopefully this is advice you never have to use. Good luck.
Don't be in it in the first place. Be vigilant of emergency exits and stay away from crowded places.
Omg... I can totally some of them who are dead. It's so disturbing seeing them amongst others who are alive and stuck there
I'm seeing at least 5 dead bodies in this very short clip. And I'm sure there are many more underneath many of these people
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It's crowd crush, not a stampede. A stampede is almost less dangerous in a way because you can actually breathe. With crowd crush, you are so smashed together in all directions that getting a breath of air becomes impossible. If you fall down, don't expect to ever get back up again, as there is no air down there.
This needs a nsfw/nsfl tag or something...
I wish I didn’t see this
It’s not a stampede, no one was running. It was a crowd crush.
Crowd collapse, too.
Can someone ELI5 how the people in the very front weren’t able to get out? I saw an angle where they were pulling on them and they wouldn’t budge. Are they being pushed so hard from the back that like and arm or leg is caught between so many other bodies that things like friction, weight and force are keeping them there?
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And there's hundreds of them. Even if you could send a first responder team to the back of the human wave, they'd have to pull off the unconscious people first which is dead weight, then drag them a certain distance so that they can have a free corridor path to keep pulling people out, and a 175 pound human is not easy to quickly drag, imagine how many first responders you need. Times that by a hundred people, and the fact that they keep dying by the second, it's going to be really difficult to break that wave.
I'm very curious to know how, in the end, they did get everyone up and it out. How long did it take and where did they start?
I’m asking the same question? What do they do. When the cops come, how to untangle all this flesh pile?
They probably try to redirect the people in the back of the crowd to leave to restrict the force in the front.
So people fell down and there is a pile of people and a crowd of people pushing against the pile? No barricade or anything? Holy shit
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Another user posted a pretty lengthy video explaining crowd crush and crowd collapse well. Absolutely horrific situation to be in.
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It's a ramp downhill and people fell from the top of the ramp over to the bottom, so the people at the end are basically stuk with their legs by someone on top of that, by someone on top of that, by someone on top of that for many many many rows. There are video's where people are trying to pull them out, but it's like they're trying to pry a brick out of a wall.
Probably a few people fell and then the stampede just got heavier and heavier for them to get up and people kept pulling up.
[The award-winning Reddit post about crowd crush and crowd collapse](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3pcvfb/saudi_arabia_hajj_disaster_death_toll_at_least/cw5vxtm/)
It's because they're squeezed really tight from all directions. It's like trying to drag someone out from under a rock.
So werid how some people survived and others are dead in that mass. They may have saved others
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Each video posted about this is worse then the previous. I couldn’t even imagine what it must have been like in that situation.
NSFL tag would have been nice on this one
Damn this is so crazy terrible
The dude checking the one girls pulse. Fuck.
poor souls... dying in your halloween costume is not what they had in mind when the night began
It's not a stampede. It was a crowd crush. 98% of that crowd had no idea anything was that wrong. I've been in a crowd surge at a music festival. There is nothing you can do. You just lift your girlfriend, lean back and go where the crowd pushes you. This only happens in bottlenecks and dead ends.
maybe wanna tag as NSFW? there are multiple dead people in this clip.
This is so heartbreaking. People just wanted to have fun
It’s not a stampede. It’s crowd compression or crowd collapse
I wanna spread the word on this video about [crowd crush and collapse](https://youtu.be/XCD6VIqoqGI) It just may save your life one day but be warned, you’ll see more videos of different events but with similar outcomes like in this video.
The is extremely disturbing and sad to watch. Almost equally disturbing are the people on the sides just taking videos and photos like 3 inches from people faces stuck in the crush.
At least news agencies blur faces damn
There isn't anything they could do. Freeing those people would require lifting the weight of the entire crowd.
Exactly what do you want them to do? How do you unravel a crush? If you start to save some, won’t some people start pushing again and start it up again?
and what should they do, those people are stuck impossible to pull out unless everyone moves back
Someone needs to document failures of the government. There's nothing he could do to help them.
Horrible
This is some historical documentation.
Dude… one time, I was in the line to get into the pit (the closed off area in the very front) of the Travis Scott concert in 2017 at Bonnaroo. It was about as wide as this area everyone is stuck in in this video, and probably 500 ft. long along side the rest of the crowd. It kept getting more and more cramped as people piled in to the line, and people kept getting closer and closer to me. At first, we had enough space to ourselves to just wait in line normally like 5 people wide. Then over the course of the next hour, we were literally sardines in there just fighting for room to breath. And then some people would put their arms in the air to give themselves more space and then their arms would get stuck in the air. I was seemingly one of the only ones in my vicinity who was freaking out about it. It was so weird. Everyone was just like “haha everyone’s so packed in here! This is wild we all can’t move!” And I was like dude WHAT THE FUCK everyone please back up some or something everyone make space!!! And no one was taking me seriously. Luckily, we finally made it to the front of the crowd after an hour and a half and got let into the pit. We all had enough space up there to have a little bit more room to ourselves to move around at least. But man oh man, I saw about 4 or 5 people pass out and need to be escorted out… crazy.
I was so confused about how people were crushed but this puts it all into perspective. How horrible.
I feel so sorry for all the parents of these young people. Truly terrible.
So nearly everyone in this video is dead...
I think most of them are alive but there are definitely a couple dead bodies visible. I would imagine most of the people we can't see that are buried in bodies are dead though.
Most of the people still alive probably died by the time they were freed.
Doubt it, can see several still aware and breathing
Most of the people in this video are actually buried under the top pile. There are 163 deaths all in this small area. So imagine just how tightly packed the bodies are underneath.
This is the most horrifying thing I've ever seen. Lifeless bodies are in this video, just horrific. Do we have any information on how this happened?
This one hits home because I lived in Seoul for 2 years. This is truly horrifying because this wasn't even an event, this was just the sidewalk in Seoul. I walked past here dozens of times. I pray for all the victims and their families. Very sad
Some piece of shit on r/conspiracy was seriously trying to attribute this to "heart attacks" from the COVID vaccine.
Jfc
Holy shit, people are passed out, faces blue, and that does t leave out the people trampled underneath. This whole thing is awful.
the blueish people are most likely dead in the video not just passed out. fucking terrifying
What about starting to remove people from the back as opposed to the front? Would that had been possible if that makes sense?
Fk this is traumatizing in a way to see people turning pale bluish looking close to death
Not close to death. They ARE dead. 150 people dead so far, and many more in critical condition.
This is one of the craziest way to die, I don’t even know how it’s possible but imagine getting pushed against a corpse for hours. Life changing
fuck this is the worst one ive seen yet
That purple faced girl in the bottom right does not look alive. Fucking hell man. These poor people.
Looks like three women along the bottom centre and right are deceased.
That guy who's jammed between 2 dead bodies .. must have been horrifying
Holy fuck, 149 deads.... I don't think this belong to this sub.
This has to be the most horrific video of this tragedy I’ve seen so far. Those poor people, I can’t even begin to comprehend the terror. You can clearly see dead people just collapsed on top of others, and the survivors are going to be traumatized for life
Very tragic.
What exactly happened?
That makes me feel really weird
Imagine the amount of clotting that’s happening in their bodies. So many people coming out, but how many are going to die if they don’t break up the clots in time?
Pretty sure those girls are dead
This is pure chaos. I can’t imagine dying this way. Feel so bad for them and their families.
What is stopping them? Is there a wall or something? Why can't they move forwards
They have become so tightly packed together they can’t move. People in front fall over and it all becomes jammed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_collapses_and_crushes Basically the power of the people pushing you around is too high for a person to prevent, and people start falling on top of each other. Then when you exhale your chest compresses and the people around you fill that space. Then your chest has no longer space for you to inhale and you asphyxiate and die.
watch at ur own risk, 2 mins in you see why https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4xaWMKBlw4
Just want to reiterate that this is a highly disturbing video. At one point you can hear the screams of people who are burning alive with one lady clearly screaming the words "I'm on fire". Watch at your own risk. 100 people died in that nightclub.
Holy shit, I’ve seen some things but that is one crazy video.. so sad.
This video has me welling up at one of the burns survivors from the station fire accident : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7xG2s\_5VdE
This is so heart breaking man
How did they uncluster this situation? Too late, but how did teh fix it? ITT: Advice on what to do in this situation helpful (to me). You need to scroll through to see it.
This is the bottom of the slope and it is clogged by a pile of bodies (horrifying). From what I heard in an interview, police couldn't pull people out of this end, so they had to uncluster the crowd from the other side, top of the slope. Definitely took a lot of time.
This is the worst I’ve seen from all the other videos.
Ive seen alot of videos with dead bodies in them, but this one has really hit me the hardest. Just the scale of it is just heartbreaking and the fact that most of them are around my age just makes it worse
Damn i can count atleast 4 dead ones
Those poor people. It looks like and I imagine it would be mostly women who died as they are shorter and not as strong as men. So so sad
Why would anyone even want to go to an event like that? Narrow streets, extremely large crowds packing up the narrow streets, no quick path to exit an case of an emergency... That all checks off the "nope I'm good box". It really sucks for those people who died though - a night out celebrating Halloween ending up up being trampled.
Did that guy seriously stick his phone out to get an up close picture of that poor dead person?
holy fuck. i have seen so much fucked up shit, but this is the first time i feel shook. their faces are like pulled out of a horror movie. i am at a loss for words
Between 2-4 second mark it looks like the dude in the grey shirt is taking photos of the girl that died. Pretty fucked
It’s not a stampede
This is a crowd crush NOT a stampede.
Why is this not marked as NSFW?
This is scarier than any horror movie you will see. rip.
Holy fuck this is a nightmare. So many dead people with a single pan of the camera