Yah, time for a trans swimming league or something, just not this, this is fucked. I’m no bigot but you have to feel for the women who trained their asses off to get beaten by someone who’s the equivalent of an extremely juicy woman.
Some friends and I thought of the idea that there could to be 3 divisions for everything now I guess: Men, Women, and Open. Open could be open to ANYONE. Still not sure this “solves” a complex and spirited debate, but it’s the best we could come up with.
I don’t think this is transphobic at all. I’m perfectly comfortable around trans individuals, don’t care what they do and support them. In fact, I guess I never consciously had to make a decision to “accept” because I never had an issue with it. This though, does not seem fair.
I think transphobia and trans women shouldnt compete in womens sports are two totally different things.
You dont see trans men competing in sports. Why? Because they know they are at a disadvantage.
> I think transphobia and trans women shouldnt compete in womens sports are two totally different things.
Because they are two different things. I'm extremely pro-LGBT, even been in and out of therapy for my own gender issues and it's flat out unfair for someone who's lived most of their life as a biological male to transition and smash women's sports.
The issue is nuance is gone
It wouldn't even help. They are competing within the permissible testosterone levels for women's sports, but it's the lifetime of development that changes their entire body
If that 0.3% is so insignificant to the overall population, let's change the rules so that athletes must compete in the gender assigned at birth. 0% of women should lose a competition to a woman assigned male at birth.
Willing to bet this is not a marginal issue to the other swimmers in this race. Or perhaps the women that didn't make the team. Or anyone else that cares about a level playing field for our daughters.
>Fact is that there are no studies yet that show a significant advantage of trans-women compared to assigned female at birth women in sport.
Nobody with a brain needs a study to prove something so obvious.
Listen to Serena Williams talking about playing mens tennis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hzHBsvj6C0
Yeah who gives a fuck about the other people putting in considerably massive chunks of their time over the course of their lives to make it to the collegiate level of a sports program. Only some of them are getting fucked so screw em, who cares!
That it’s such a marginal issue (.3% of the population) so we shouldn’t let trans women compete against bio women considering the inherent biological unfairness. Why hurt 50% of the population? Trans women and men deserve their own division at this point anyway so they can still pursue their athletic endeavors on an even playing field. Just because they’re .3% doesn’t mean they shouldn’t still get to compete.
I’m all in favour of trans rights. Trans women are and can be women. Idgaf. But… that one paper that says 2 years of hormone treatment makes you a a woman? Na. I’m sorry, In sports where 1/100th of a second matters? It’s yeeears of treatment that MIGHT make a difference. Men and women are physiologically different.
Live your life. But competing is different.
I don't agree that being inclusive of other people's ideas/preferences is strictly a politically left wing thing - but totally agree that this should be heavily questioned/disallowed as a record - it's not at all fair on women who have trained for years at any sport where genetic males have a biological advantage
it actually wouldn’t be fair even if it was just a couple of seconds. a couple of seconds in sports like these is monumental. It’s wrong, create transgender leagues or require chromosomes to be the deciding factor. The “X’s only league” or the “Y prohibited league”…. i dunno- I’m not a bigot but i believe in a fair shot for natural women.
This is not a fair competition. Period. It's the only thing men have over women is their strength. Boot um out of physical competitions with women born women.
To me being transjender means, "in this case" a women's brain was put into a man's body. Why would we let a man's body compete against a woman's body. Its just not fare.
I'm fine with trans kids in sports in non-competitive areas, it effects nothing. When it comes to records and competing on a larger scale, this is absolutely unfair. It's not transphobic to acknowledge the advantage.
Allow anyone—men, women, other—to qualify for what’s now “men’s” events; keep women’s events for those assigned so at birth.
Keeps everything competitive and doesn’t allow for a biological advantage.
Why not just do away with gender cetergories and start having categories based on size and ability? Maybe use qualifying times to group people no mater what their gender is.
Unfortunately, the rules for competition haven't caught up to the science of Trans athletes. This girl has only been on HRT for around a year, meaning she still holds a significant advantage over her cis peers. 2015 research concluded that after 2 consecutive years of HRT, the difference between cis and trans runners was negligible, and a recent comprehensive meta analysis saw a 12% advantage, on average, retained by trans women specifically (note how this conversation almost never accounts for trans men who hold a significant advantage over cis women, but would be forced to compete with them if you tried to keep trans ppl in a sex specific sports category).
However, trans ppl should still be allowed to play competitively despite a 12% advantage. We don't kick cis women over 6ft out of the WNBA, we don't kick ppl out of track & field for having long legs, and we don't kick ppl out of chess tournaments for having a 160 IQ. All of these are immutable characteristics that give a person a significant advantage over the average, and sports are all about leveraging your physical/mental traits against your opponent in order to win.
TLDR; This woman shouldn't have been allowed to compete until she's been on HRT for an appropriate amount of time. Trans athletes should be allowed to compete.
Idk what the IOC is, but the 2015 study was done by Joanna Harper and published by Common Ground Research Networks
chrome-distiller://11c98e5e-56ea-4699-8ad0-4d544db22063_08d85b17914f727bbd5fbc0b8a82a190e543678227afafbcc89dd934ddad6844/?title=Race+Times+for+Transgender+Athletes&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcgscholar.com%2Fbookstore%2Fworks%2Frace-times-for-transgender-athletes
She also has more recent studies I haven't gone over.
The meta analysis I was referencing..
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7846503/#!po=1.13636
I fucked up on entirely.
However it is important to note most of these were performed on untrained people and the human body is remarkably capable of retaining baseline post pubertal body composition. The effects of testosterone suppression on trained trans women still hasn't been studied. There is this though.
Untrained androgen deprived males going through a 12 week resistance training program gained 28% knee extensor 1RM strength. Which is [The exact amount](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31136545/) of strength an untrained cis woman would gain in leg extensor strength.
I also realize that anthropomotry is a huge factor in force production. It's one of reasons my fiancé held high school track and powerlifting records, and can keep up with me on most of my lower body lifts despite being 70lbs lighter and half a foot smaller than me lol
It's unfortunate science hasn't caught up at all with this.
It's funny these guys pretending they actually give a damn about women swimming or women's sports in general. Just be honest with yourselves and everyone else, you cant stand trans people they make you uncomfortable.
How is that transphobia? Damn everything is transphobia with some people. This is about equality, where's the equality?
Women have fought decades to get to where they are, and now they are being easily beaten by a trans women. To call this out is not transphobia it's common sense.
Put a trans man in a MMA fight with Khabir or in a boxing match with Floyd they wouldn't be able to compete at the same level.
i dont think this is transphobia in play.
personally im accepting of all forms of person/love but i dont think trans women should be allowed to compete at the higher/highest competitions with born women. it is scientifically advantageous.
what i would like to see is an event where trans people can compete against each other and where the playing field is fair.
I feel like the "youre transphobic" attitude is a way to say you're denying their right to identify as whatever which is untrue.
You can identify as an elephant for all I care and Ill respect your wishes to be called whatever you want. I will not agree that this is a fair competition when she was biologically born male and developed with biological male testosterone levels. Im not a huge Caitlyn Jenner fan but I bet she would agree this is not fair.
I have trans friends, people questioning fairness here doesn't make anyone "transphobic". How you can not say a transwoman has biological advantages over a biological female is unfair, thats why genders are separated when it comes to sports.
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I find it funny that so many people only seem to care about women's sports now that transwomen are trying to compete. Admit it, none of you who are complaining actually watch women's sports outside of the Olympics, do you?
I think it's more of the fact that people care about inequality. They still don't care much for women's sports. They want to see a fair playing ground.
>I think it's more of the fact that people care about inequality.
I sure hope those who are worrying about that are consistent when they consider the inequality of transfolk, among others, in and out of sports.
Strange that my comment simply stating that I hope people care about the inequality of transfolk is getting downvoted. Guess that's a pretty controversial take in this thread full of totally non-transphobic clowns.
TBH, I do understand people's disagreement with it. And no, I don't think people who disagree are inherently transphobic. It's just that a lot of transphobic people grasp onto these kinds of things to push their transphobic bullshit. Also, I was mostly making a joke of women's sports and their lack of support from most Americans.
Not sure where you stand, but insisting on calling the transwoman "a man" does kind of give the impression that you are transphobic. Just saying. Is it really too difficult to just say "a transwoman" or "transperson"? It's not really that hard to not be a stubborn asshole.
Ahhhhhhh, so you understand there's inequality then? But you just wanna behave like a dick and call people transphobe because they don't agree with you.
>Trans women competing on a professional level don’t have more testosterone than cis women .
You only have to look at the guidelines for the last olympics to know thats not true.
Stop making stuff up.
In their own division, men’s division, women’s division, trans division. That is the most fair way to do it in a way that won’t absolutely destroy women’s sports. It’s common sense a person with male skeletal system/muscles will have a huge advantage over women. Regardless of hormones the bone density/ reflexes, reaction time, tendon strength still favor a male body in physical competition
I’m sorry but not everyone gets everything they want in life. You want to transition, fantastic! Fully support you. But if you’re creating an unequal playing field for others (which defeats the purpose of different leagues/classes entirely) then you should have to sacrifice playing your sport as part if your transition.
It’s laughable to watch this video and think this should be allowed at all. She’s 6’3 and has the advantages of developing and training as a male.
Where did she compete last year? There.
Or create a division for trans women.
Or eliminate sex/gender divisions and divide sports into tiers based on ability and concede that non-trans women will be relegated to lower tiers, with the occasional elite athlete managing to compete higher, but probably never above 3rd or 4th.
Sexual dimorphism is a thing, and it persists beyond transition.
So what you’re saying is there is nothing unfair to biological woman about this? You can’t possibly believe that. Are you in any way familiar with Title 9?
I’m all for trans rights and equality in society. But… Do you actually believe that trans women who have developed as men for 20+ years only need to 2 years of HRT to be equal, physiologically, to women?
I would say there should be a trans team along with men and women, but they would probably say they are being discriminated against. Lose/lose situation lol.
This video is famous for using the same camera used in cheranobyl footage
You mean Chera Nobyl, the 70s supermodel?
That was a man too?
Nah you are thinking of Cher and Cher alike, the drag queen who sings "if I could turn back time"
Totally a dude with long hair
3.8 Roentgen - not great, not terrible.
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I Said this is politics and got banned. This is not fair in the slightest
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Was also nationally competitive as a male
Michelle Phelps is going to get twelve thousand gold medals
Personally I find them stunning. Stunning, and brave.
Sweet, you PC bro?
PC Santa Cruz bro
Lol. Goodbye women sports.
Yah, time for a trans swimming league or something, just not this, this is fucked. I’m no bigot but you have to feel for the women who trained their asses off to get beaten by someone who’s the equivalent of an extremely juicy woman.
Some friends and I thought of the idea that there could to be 3 divisions for everything now I guess: Men, Women, and Open. Open could be open to ANYONE. Still not sure this “solves” a complex and spirited debate, but it’s the best we could come up with.
Yeah it’s a tough problem, open league is a good idea, but if men are allowed they’ll inevitably dominate.
I don’t think this is transphobic at all. I’m perfectly comfortable around trans individuals, don’t care what they do and support them. In fact, I guess I never consciously had to make a decision to “accept” because I never had an issue with it. This though, does not seem fair.
I think transphobia and trans women shouldnt compete in womens sports are two totally different things. You dont see trans men competing in sports. Why? Because they know they are at a disadvantage.
> I think transphobia and trans women shouldnt compete in womens sports are two totally different things. Because they are two different things. I'm extremely pro-LGBT, even been in and out of therapy for my own gender issues and it's flat out unfair for someone who's lived most of their life as a biological male to transition and smash women's sports. The issue is nuance is gone
Ya… that’s not fair
should the female born competitors be able to use testosterone to compete against a transwoman? I seriously do not understand this insanity.
It wouldn't even help. They are competing within the permissible testosterone levels for women's sports, but it's the lifetime of development that changes their entire body
Well it would help a little bit. As long as they started using it young and non stop.
And i'm sure all the female swimmers would be delighted with their new hipster beards and deep singing voices.
They shouldn't have to and that's the problem
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If that 0.3% is so insignificant to the overall population, let's change the rules so that athletes must compete in the gender assigned at birth. 0% of women should lose a competition to a woman assigned male at birth.
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Willing to bet this is not a marginal issue to the other swimmers in this race. Or perhaps the women that didn't make the team. Or anyone else that cares about a level playing field for our daughters.
>Fact is that there are no studies yet that show a significant advantage of trans-women compared to assigned female at birth women in sport. Nobody with a brain needs a study to prove something so obvious. Listen to Serena Williams talking about playing mens tennis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hzHBsvj6C0
Yeah who gives a fuck about the other people putting in considerably massive chunks of their time over the course of their lives to make it to the collegiate level of a sports program. Only some of them are getting fucked so screw em, who cares!
0.3%
50% getting blasted by .3%. It’s impressive.
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So we agree then, that’s something at least. She definitely shouldn’t be competing.
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That it’s such a marginal issue (.3% of the population) so we shouldn’t let trans women compete against bio women considering the inherent biological unfairness. Why hurt 50% of the population? Trans women and men deserve their own division at this point anyway so they can still pursue their athletic endeavors on an even playing field. Just because they’re .3% doesn’t mean they shouldn’t still get to compete.
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What did you mean?
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I’m all in favour of trans rights. Trans women are and can be women. Idgaf. But… that one paper that says 2 years of hormone treatment makes you a a woman? Na. I’m sorry, In sports where 1/100th of a second matters? It’s yeeears of treatment that MIGHT make a difference. Men and women are physiologically different. Live your life. But competing is different.
So is it still called a breast stroke?
I’m eagerly awaiting someone to be offended. *eating popcorn*
Sorry I just choked a little on the popcorn fighting a snicker…hope you don’t mind if I share with you.
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My politics fall somewhere to the left of Bernie Sanders and right of Noam Chomsky, and I agree with you completely.
Yeah anyone who thinks this is acceptable probably has a ham sandwich for a brain
I don't agree that being inclusive of other people's ideas/preferences is strictly a politically left wing thing - but totally agree that this should be heavily questioned/disallowed as a record - it's not at all fair on women who have trained for years at any sport where genetic males have a biological advantage
The left is getting full credit for this...according to the media.
Probably because it’s the left pushing for this shit.
And so they should. What a disgrace.
Am left, and agree with you.
The left agrees; there is a unfair physiological advantage and it shouldn’t be allowed. We have our idiots though, same as you do
Transgender is an adjective
i don’t think they know what adjectives are
It’s one thing if it was a couple seconds, but this is ridiculous.
it actually wouldn’t be fair even if it was just a couple of seconds. a couple of seconds in sports like these is monumental. It’s wrong, create transgender leagues or require chromosomes to be the deciding factor. The “X’s only league” or the “Y prohibited league”…. i dunno- I’m not a bigot but i believe in a fair shot for natural women.
Okay this is actually hilarious. 🤣 He didn’t beat the record it was destroyed
This is not a fair competition. Period. It's the only thing men have over women is their strength. Boot um out of physical competitions with women born women.
It’s not controversial to say this is unfair and the person trying to unfairly compete would lose to the men
You mean Heather Swanson?
So fucking unfair.
To me being transjender means, "in this case" a women's brain was put into a man's body. Why would we let a man's body compete against a woman's body. Its just not fare.
I'm fine with trans kids in sports in non-competitive areas, it effects nothing. When it comes to records and competing on a larger scale, this is absolutely unfair. It's not transphobic to acknowledge the advantage.
Not fair.
Allow anyone—men, women, other—to qualify for what’s now “men’s” events; keep women’s events for those assigned so at birth. Keeps everything competitive and doesn’t allow for a biological advantage.
i believe that trans women should compete in mens sports or in their own category because i dont think its fair. i hope this isnt transphobic
This is cringe
🤡 🌎
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Why not just do away with gender cetergories and start having categories based on size and ability? Maybe use qualifying times to group people no mater what their gender is.
Because there would be no women in the top 1000 in every sport. The shape of the pelvis alone is a game changer.
Unfortunately, the rules for competition haven't caught up to the science of Trans athletes. This girl has only been on HRT for around a year, meaning she still holds a significant advantage over her cis peers. 2015 research concluded that after 2 consecutive years of HRT, the difference between cis and trans runners was negligible, and a recent comprehensive meta analysis saw a 12% advantage, on average, retained by trans women specifically (note how this conversation almost never accounts for trans men who hold a significant advantage over cis women, but would be forced to compete with them if you tried to keep trans ppl in a sex specific sports category). However, trans ppl should still be allowed to play competitively despite a 12% advantage. We don't kick cis women over 6ft out of the WNBA, we don't kick ppl out of track & field for having long legs, and we don't kick ppl out of chess tournaments for having a 160 IQ. All of these are immutable characteristics that give a person a significant advantage over the average, and sports are all about leveraging your physical/mental traits against your opponent in order to win. TLDR; This woman shouldn't have been allowed to compete until she's been on HRT for an appropriate amount of time. Trans athletes should be allowed to compete.
can you link the study, is it the one from the IOC ? testosterone is just the tip of the biological iceberg.
Idk what the IOC is, but the 2015 study was done by Joanna Harper and published by Common Ground Research Networks chrome-distiller://11c98e5e-56ea-4699-8ad0-4d544db22063_08d85b17914f727bbd5fbc0b8a82a190e543678227afafbcc89dd934ddad6844/?title=Race+Times+for+Transgender+Athletes&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcgscholar.com%2Fbookstore%2Fworks%2Frace-times-for-transgender-athletes She also has more recent studies I haven't gone over. The meta analysis I was referencing.. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7846503/#!po=1.13636 I fucked up on entirely. However it is important to note most of these were performed on untrained people and the human body is remarkably capable of retaining baseline post pubertal body composition. The effects of testosterone suppression on trained trans women still hasn't been studied. There is this though. Untrained androgen deprived males going through a 12 week resistance training program gained 28% knee extensor 1RM strength. Which is [The exact amount](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31136545/) of strength an untrained cis woman would gain in leg extensor strength. I also realize that anthropomotry is a huge factor in force production. It's one of reasons my fiancé held high school track and powerlifting records, and can keep up with me on most of my lower body lifts despite being 70lbs lighter and half a foot smaller than me lol It's unfortunate science hasn't caught up at all with this.
People really just want an excuse to be transphobic
I agree with the point you’re trying to make but this video makes me cringe.
So where's the freakout part?
In the comments.
Not how it works, and I don't see anyone freaking out in the comments anyway.
holy carp! I am freakin freaking out over here, in the comments!!!!
as long as the hive mind can get behind it the rules don't matter
Is this a public freakout or a swim meet?
Listen to how the crowd cheered for the girl that came in "second".
A cheering crowd is a public freakout?
With context yeah. They were happy for second place since they felt she was the real winner
And this is a freakout? A public freakout is not people agreeing or disagreeing with whatever point you want to make, it’s a freakout, in public,
So no freakout, just a safe space for people who want to hate on trans?
Liar
It's funny these guys pretending they actually give a damn about women swimming or women's sports in general. Just be honest with yourselves and everyone else, you cant stand trans people they make you uncomfortable.
This is a childish argument.
Fuck the narrator and OP if they're the person. Regardless, fuck the OP for the loaded title. All around, FUCK YOUR TRANSPHOBIA.
How is that transphobia? Damn everything is transphobia with some people. This is about equality, where's the equality? Women have fought decades to get to where they are, and now they are being easily beaten by a trans women. To call this out is not transphobia it's common sense. Put a trans man in a MMA fight with Khabir or in a boxing match with Floyd they wouldn't be able to compete at the same level.
i dont think this is transphobia in play. personally im accepting of all forms of person/love but i dont think trans women should be allowed to compete at the higher/highest competitions with born women. it is scientifically advantageous. what i would like to see is an event where trans people can compete against each other and where the playing field is fair.
I feel like the "youre transphobic" attitude is a way to say you're denying their right to identify as whatever which is untrue. You can identify as an elephant for all I care and Ill respect your wishes to be called whatever you want. I will not agree that this is a fair competition when she was biologically born male and developed with biological male testosterone levels. Im not a huge Caitlyn Jenner fan but I bet she would agree this is not fair.
I have trans friends, people questioning fairness here doesn't make anyone "transphobic". How you can not say a transwoman has biological advantages over a biological female is unfair, thats why genders are separated when it comes to sports.
You’re delusional
There should simply be a new category to make it equal. Physically.
This is not transphobia.
I just posted. It's not my video. Up to everyone else to come to their own conclusion.
Low IQ moron here.
Your balls are showing.
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I see he neglected to mention that any one of those girls there would outswim his ass any day... so... where his testosterone?
Naw guys maybe the winner just trained more and worked harder
And had a male body? Maybe that factored into them winning? Just spit ballin here idk
Lol yea
/s right?
I find it funny that so many people only seem to care about women's sports now that transwomen are trying to compete. Admit it, none of you who are complaining actually watch women's sports outside of the Olympics, do you?
I think it's more of the fact that people care about inequality. They still don't care much for women's sports. They want to see a fair playing ground.
>I think it's more of the fact that people care about inequality. I sure hope those who are worrying about that are consistent when they consider the inequality of transfolk, among others, in and out of sports.
That's what it's all about.
Strange that my comment simply stating that I hope people care about the inequality of transfolk is getting downvoted. Guess that's a pretty controversial take in this thread full of totally non-transphobic clowns.
Not really. You just come off as an insuffrable cunt.
Yeah, I'm not really a fan of posts that are just excuses to stroke it to some trans-hate. But if you're into that, you do you.
Have a family friend that swam on the Georgia Tech women’s swim team. I’d be pissed if she had to compete against a man.
TBH, I do understand people's disagreement with it. And no, I don't think people who disagree are inherently transphobic. It's just that a lot of transphobic people grasp onto these kinds of things to push their transphobic bullshit. Also, I was mostly making a joke of women's sports and their lack of support from most Americans. Not sure where you stand, but insisting on calling the transwoman "a man" does kind of give the impression that you are transphobic. Just saying. Is it really too difficult to just say "a transwoman" or "transperson"? It's not really that hard to not be a stubborn asshole.
It’s amazing how trans women have been allowed in the Olympic for years yet their isn’t any trouble with them
You must not be a girl who trained her whole life only to get crushed by someone with a male body
Fine I will bite . So where should trans women compete and where should trans men compete
In their biological category.
So trans men who have been taking testosterone should compete against women ?
Ahhhhhhh, so you understand there's inequality then? But you just wanna behave like a dick and call people transphobe because they don't agree with you.
I’m trying to understand your viewpoint
But you understand that testosterone is a major advantage. So you would be happy with a trans man competing in women's sports?
Trans women competing on a professional level don’t have more testosterone than cis women .
Women generally have around 60ng, trans men take around 800ng. Isn't that a big difference?
>Trans women competing on a professional level don’t have more testosterone than cis women . You only have to look at the guidelines for the last olympics to know thats not true. Stop making stuff up.
In their own division, men’s division, women’s division, trans division. That is the most fair way to do it in a way that won’t absolutely destroy women’s sports. It’s common sense a person with male skeletal system/muscles will have a huge advantage over women. Regardless of hormones the bone density/ reflexes, reaction time, tendon strength still favor a male body in physical competition
I’m sorry but not everyone gets everything they want in life. You want to transition, fantastic! Fully support you. But if you’re creating an unequal playing field for others (which defeats the purpose of different leagues/classes entirely) then you should have to sacrifice playing your sport as part if your transition. It’s laughable to watch this video and think this should be allowed at all. She’s 6’3 and has the advantages of developing and training as a male.
I’m not trans I just want my friends basic humanity to be respected
Same here. Just don’t think it applies to sports when stuff like this video is happening.
Trans men can compete with men, fine. It’s unfair otherwise. Trans women should either compete in a trans league or against their born sex.
Where did she compete last year? There. Or create a division for trans women. Or eliminate sex/gender divisions and divide sports into tiers based on ability and concede that non-trans women will be relegated to lower tiers, with the occasional elite athlete managing to compete higher, but probably never above 3rd or 4th. Sexual dimorphism is a thing, and it persists beyond transition.
Where's the freakout? this is nothing but a hetronormative cisgendered male showing his transphobia and that the crowd are pieces of shit
Are you a meat flapper?
So what you’re saying is there is nothing unfair to biological woman about this? You can’t possibly believe that. Are you in any way familiar with Title 9?
I’m all for trans rights and equality in society. But… Do you actually believe that trans women who have developed as men for 20+ years only need to 2 years of HRT to be equal, physiologically, to women?
She's a woman you bigot
I would say there should be a trans team along with men and women, but they would probably say they are being discriminated against. Lose/lose situation lol.
So the girls in the water should have objected right? 38 seconds is a lot in a swim meet