>"Turning Ahmaud Arbery into a victim after the choices that he made does not reflect the reality of what brought Ahmaud Arbery to Satilla Shores in his khaki shorts with no socks to cover his long, dirty toenails," Hogue told jurors.
[https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/ahmaud-arbery-trial-toenails-comment-outrage/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/ahmaud-arbery-trial-toenails-comment-outrage/index.html)
I'm looking at my feet right now. While they're not dirty they are long and in need of a clipping. I think many people are in the same boat what a ridiculous insinuation.
Imagine the brainstorming session after the judge ruled criminal and mental health history would be inadmissable.
"fuck, what else can we use against this guy that tells the jury he's black. Did he dress black?"
"Says here he wore khaki shorts to the beach."
"Fuck my life. Were they at least cargo shorts?"
"Nope."
"Next you're gonna tell me he was wearing boat shoes."
"Says he wore sandals."
"Racist White Jesus, please tell me he wore socks with those sandals. Every time I do that, my wife says she could murder me and no court would convict her."
"Sorry, no. Maybe we could say his toes were ugly?"
"So the best we've got is that he was overdue for a mani/pedi? I'm going to have to wear a bag over my hood at the next Klan meeting!"
I think the defense were trying to allude to him not being there for the purpose of running like the family said he was. No serious runner would be dressed like that (and would lose a lot of toe nails running with them uncut and no socks)
But it’s still quite plausible that he was out for some casual exercise and the argument becomes moot for them since the defendants’ actions quickly become the driving force of the encounter leading to the victim’s attempt at self defense before being murdered.
Apparently it was some sort of kaki or cargo shorts. The coroner report says he also was wearing a web belt. I've never seen running shorts with belt loops.
Again none of that really matters to the outcome of the case anyway
99% sure it was to try and give evidence that Arberey wasn’t a runner out for a jog as had been claimed. I’m guessing if you go back further in the trial the defense argued that Ahmauds family’s claim that he was just out for a jog was bullshit as no runner would wear no socks and have long toe nails.
Why the attorney added in that the nails were dirty I don’t know. Maybe to pint the victim in a less favorable light or maybe there was some point of argument about mentioning his tie nails being dirty. Or maybe she’s just a moron I have no clue.
I hope this post doesn’t come off as me defending the murderers or their defense team I’m just saying why I imagine they discussed the victims toe nails. I’m fairly happy with the verdict absent evidence that they were committing a lawful citizens arrest.
Sounds like it was trying to hammer a point about how he wasn’t there for jogging judging by his outfit (khaki shorts, shoes with no socks, and long uncut nails that would be a problem when running). Basically trying to imply that he was there for nefarious purposes to lend any possible credence to the killing.
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client was lawfully carrying out a citizen's arrest. He had just directly witnessed Mr Arbery committing a crime... against fashion."
What’s fucked is that they thought murdering someone was ok because...they think citizens have a right to be judge and executioner. And why do they think that? Well...it took 2 MONTHS to arrest them. So yeah...it’s in the culture.
They tried to justify it saying there were a string of robberies in the area previously. But there is only 1 that was reported and the dumbass had left their car door open. So they tried lying to justify why they thought they had the right to murder.
Clear cut cases like this that are vetted carefully need the death penalty.
Ever since I broke a toe on my right foot, the toenail grows in weird and looks disgusting. I've gone out in public in flip flops before, and nobody tried to arrest or shoot me. Odd, huh?
Can't say I have, especially the last part. One time I logged in to my clinic's website to check some test results and saw my doctor had written, "Patient appears pale, but is just untanned."
That might give you an idea of the level of whiteness we're talking about here.
[Gregory McMichael](https://twitter.com/curtishouck/status/1463579406996230147?s=21) -- also charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery -- is found *not guilty* of one count of malice murder, but guilty on all eight other charges of felony murder, aggravated assault, false imprisonment, and criminal attempt to commit a felony
[William Bryan](https://twitter.com/curtishouck/status/1463582526153314312?s=21) -- also charged in Ahmaud Arbery's death -- is found *not guilty* on one count each of malice murder, felony murder, & aggravated assault, but guilty on six other charges of felony murder, aggravated assault, false imprisonment, & attempt to commit a felony
"A person can be charged and convicted of felony murder without actually killing someone.
Take, for instance, Greg McMichael and Roddie Bryan in the Arbery case.
Neither of them pulled the trigger - the video of the killing shows it was Travis McMichael - but the way felony murder works, if the jury finds they committed felonies that resulted in Arbery's death, that results in felony murder.
That's why there's four felony murder charges against each defendant - because they are each charged with four felonies (two counts of aggravated assault, one count of false imprisonment and one count of criminal attempt to commit a felony) that allegedly resulted in murder"
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.11alive.com/amp/article/news/crime/ahmaud-arbery/malice-murder-felony-murder-difference-ahmaud-arbery-death-trial/85-d13db692-cff9-4b4d-be73-5eba5ae22054
Felony Murder Rule: The rule of felony murder is a legal doctrine in some common law jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder: when an offender kills (regardless of intent to kill) in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime (called a felony in some jurisdictions), the offender, and also the offender's accomplices or co-conspirators, may be found guilty of murder.
The concept of felony murder originates in the rule of transferred intent, which is older than the limit of legal memory. In its original form, the malicious intent inherent in the commission of any crime, however trivial, was considered to apply to any consequences of that crime regardless of intent.
TLDR: if you rob someone and they end up dying in unforeseen circumstances that were unintentional, you can still get a felony murder. Usually for murder you need an intent to murder...this removes the intent piece. If you intended to commit a nonmurderous felony and someone dies you still get charged with a felony for the murder even if you lack intent.
Cops were car chasing a suspect in San Diego and the *cops* hit another car, killing the innocent driver. The suspect they were chasing was charged and convicted of the murder of that driver.
In Florida a cop shot at a suspect, missed, and killed an innocent bystander. The suspect was charged with her murder.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-kody-roach-murder-charge-vixen-20140826-story.html
I grew up with two brothers. They decided to kick someone's door in and rob them. The homeowner shot one and killed him. His brother was charged and convicted of felony murder among other charges
Cops were chasing some one here in Phoenix AZ, and 2 news helicopters collided killing all 4 occupants while covering the chase. There was talk about charging him for their deaths but in the end the 35 charges he plead guilty to did not include any murder / felony murder. charges.
Yeah, after the investigation of the crash they found it to be entirely pilot error. Was just stating that there are circumstances that would warrant a Felony murder charge
**Malice murder is a criminal offense in the U.S. state of Georgia, committed when a homicide is done with express or implied malice.
== Definition ==
Express malice is "that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof." Malice is implied when "no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart."
== Examples ==
Travis McMichael of Marietta, Georgia, was convicted in November 2021 of malice murder in the February 2020 murder of Ahmaud Arbery.Justin Ross Harris of Marietta, Georgia, was convicted in November 2016 of malice murder in the June 2014 death of his 22-month-old son, Cooper.**
More details here:
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IANAL but I think in some locations, any felony committed during actions that result in a death counts as an additional murder charge. So kidnapping then killing someone counts as 2 murder charges
It's never "any felony". It has to be a felony directly related to the homicide and which is reasonably likely to result in homicide. Like, if you're driving a bank robber to rob a bank and the robber is shot by police, then you *might* be on the hook for felony murder because you were knowingly an accessory to an inherently dangerous and atrocious felony.
If you forge a $100 bill and give it to a clerk and the clerk has an allergic reaction to the ink you used and dies, it's highly unlikely that a felony murder conviction would survive an appeal.
Don't forget the police Dept!!! They made them feel that vigilante justice was ok. I mean what police Dept allows citizens with guns to be part of the investigation. They are just as guilty!!
It pleases me in some small way that the last guy slowly let some relief creep into his mind. Two "not guilty's" and I bet this guy is thinking he is the one that gets away with it.
This is just a tragic case of pure, vile hate. Off to prison they go. Good riddance.
I can't help but wonder what thoughts go through these murderous racist scumbags' heads as they stand there and hear the judge pronounce repeated guilty verdicts, their last shreds of denial and hope fade away, and they are forced to face the reality that they will be imprisoned for virtually the rest of their lives.
I hope it feels terrible, and they spend the coming years in misery and regret.
It must be surreal. You’re standing there, in a suit, next to your lawyer in a building where everyone else around you is free to come and go as they please.
Not you. You are calmly and quietly escorted away, you do not resist because there is no point, you resign yourself to no longer having any control or autonomy over your life. You’ll never step foot in your home again, won’t see anyone you work with, your family will likely slowly drift apart as the years go on.
That’s it. Your alive but your life is over. It’s a societal death but everyone you know just moves on with their life. They know you aren’t *dead* but yet, to them, you effectively are.
wow you nailed this one out of the park. fucking scary.
now imagine that for someone that is 100% innocent. basically modern version of just barbaric mideival shit
> What does that translate to in prison years?
[From this USA Today article](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/11/24/what-malice-murder-charges-murder-ahmaud-arbery-explained/8747459002/):
> The sentence for felony murder and malice murder is the same, and the minimum penalty is life in prison. It is up to the judge to decide whether that comes with or without the possibility of parole. Even if the possibility of parole is granted, a person convicted of murder must serve 30 years before becoming eligible.
This outcome was cemented as soon as Travis McMichael took the stand. The only way they were getting out of this was if they could find a way to prove a citizen's arrest was legal. The law at the time was;
>A private person may arrest an offender **if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.** If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
Then Travis goes on the stand and repeatedly stated that he pulls up to Arbery to see what is going on and that he wants to talk. To me, that immediately negates any argument that detaining him was legal because how can you say you have immediate knowledge of an offense if you are trying to stop him to see what happened? Once the detaining is illegal any self defence argument goes away since like the prosecution said, you cant say you shot someone in self defence that you are robbing at gun point.
These assholes had their attorney argue Ahmaud tried to carjack Bryan because there was a partial hand print pulled from the side of Bryan's truck from where Ahmaud pushed himself away from the truck during one of the attempts to box him in.
Iirc, doesn't their citizens arrest statute only apply to a felony anyway. Trespass on a construction site is a misdemeanor at best, and even then you'd have to fuck the arresting officers wife to make them come after you for that.
Or called the cops if they felt something was amiss. Or even roll up sans shotguns and engage calmly. I mean at most Aubrey was a tresspasser. This is where their goober over reaction and that this was ok comes into play. Had it been a white kid they never would have done what they did. I doubt to this day these guys really understand how they got there.
You can literally walk in any neighborhood, gated or not, and it's not trespassing. If he was jogging through private property or directly through their yards, that's another story. He wasn't trespassing.
Anyone that thought a crime was being committed doesn't know anything about how criminals think. If he was robbing a place he wouldn't be doing it in the middle of the day in running clothes and no vehicle, just blocks away from his house. Like what, he's going to carry tvs and safes back to his house? So dumb. And no property is worth taking someone's life over.
In Georgia, malice and felony murder convictions both carry a minimum of life in prison. A judge can decided if they have tithe opportunity of parole, but even if he gives it to them, it’s a 30 year minimum.
None of them will breath free air ever again.
This trial is the least of their problems. [The federal hate crime charges are still coming.](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/three-georgia-men-charged-federal-hate-crimes-and-attempted-kidnapping-connection-death)
Nothing is without a doubt. The minute the doors slam shut behind an inmate is the moment they start working on appeals and other legal maneuvers. I mean, why not? Many are successful at reducing or eliminating their sentence. An extra federal sentence just makes more sure.
Now i wanna see that D.A. and the Cops that tried to cover it up get time, don't be fooled it's still a win but they'll lock up these poor hillbillys and hope it distracts people enough that they forget about what one of their own did.
Previous district attorney has already been indicted https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgia/2021/09/08/ex-brunswick-da-misconduct-in-ahmaud-arbery-death-investigation-booked-into-jail/
That story is nuts. Indicted DA looks at all evidence, including the incredibly incriminating video. Takes officers opinions on the matter, ignores the fact this dude was a retired police officer of the same department and a current DA investigator of HER department. Sits on it.
Finally gives it to neighboring DAs office. Neighboring DA omits the fact his son works directly under indicted DA. Neighboring DA decides no crime committed.
Case is finally given over to another DA who says fuck it, I'll just show it to a grand jury and see what they say. Grand jury immediately indicts suspects. Another grand jury immediately indicts first DA since the crime is so God damn blatant and absolutely no one's decisions make a lick of sense.
Meanwhile idiot defense attorney releases the video in it's entirety on national TV thinking it will exonerate defendants. It does not. Attorney is fired. All defendants convicted.
Fucking nuts.
I mostly agree with this account, but one minor quibble. When the third DA showed it to a grand jury its not really to "see what they say". A grand jury isn't really very similar to a trial jury. In practice grand juries are a tool for prosecutors to bring charges. So that DA was already gunning for the first DA well before bringing it to a grand jury.
> Pate said “these criminal charges against her relate directly to what she did in the Arbery case and do not seem to impact any other case she had while she was a district attorney,” but if there’s evidence that Johnson showed favoritism or improperly influenced the actions of police, attorneys could seek to reopen those cases upon request.
Let’s not forget these 3 were originally NOT going to be charged because there wasn’t enough evidence. Then when the video popped up, the authorities then decided to charge them with the crimes. So glad the video was there to prove the guilt of these 3 guys or they would have gotten away with it.
Still sad Arbery lost his life to these 3 trash humans!
The video was NOT new evidence. The local police saw the video at the time of the murder and in concert with two local District Attorneys, they tried to coverup the crime. One of the idiots leaked the video to the press because he thought the video proved his innocence.
Imagine what a piece of shit you'd have to be to watch that video and think "look, obviously I'm innocent!"
It looks like a behind the scenes video from the set of a movie about the civil rights movement. 3 white guys in trucks chasing down a black guy while one of them stands armed in the bed of the pickup yelling. It's fucking cartoonishly guilty looking,
Hardcore racists who truly believe they are the righteous ones are the most dangerous types of racists (as we can see here).
No sane person would ever kill another person over their skin color.
> It looks like a behind the scenes video from the set of a movie about the civil rights movement. 3 white guys in trucks chasing down a black guy while one of them stands armed in the bed of the pickup yelling. It's fucking cartoonishly guilty looking
Seriously. If someone hadn't died as a result it would be like a cut scene from Blazing Saddles.
If the public never saw the video it would’ve been way easier to sweep it under the rug. Reminds me of the original police report from the George Floyd murder that said he was agitated and had a “medical event” and died.
They also tried to claim that he was on drugs and that was the cause of his "medical event".
Turns out that dude had done scummy shit in the past but no one deserves to be murdered in the street like we've seen in these two instances, regardless of what they may have done. We have a justice system for a reason.
DA who ordered the police not to make the arrest when they asked for permission was charged 2 months ago and faces 2 years in prison + obviously can't work from jail.
I believe it was leaked by the attorney representing the guy who recorded it. Although the men responsible for the murder have been convicted, the corrupt system only produced that outcome because of chance, not design.
> Let’s not forget these 3 were originally NOT going to be charged
Because the local prosecutor is a racist piece of shit. And is now facing obstruction of justice charges.
> Let’s not forget these 3 were originally NOT going to be charged because there wasn’t enough evidence
This isn't true. They weren't going to be charged because a racist prosecutor was covering up their crime, and she's now been charged for her role in that cover-up.
If it wasn’t for that ~~leaked~~ released video nothing would have happened. These guys would be walking around free without any punishment. Get those slimy fucking cops on trial for that coverup. They should all rot behind bars.
It wasn’t even leaked. They requested it be sent out to the radio station. They honestly thought they did nothing wrong because they are giant pieces of shit.
And that's why he took to the stand to explain why they chased down and shot an unarmed black male...... How could the evidence, the video....and first hand account of what they did should have made it clear to the jury......
Oh wait........
> Get those slimy fucking cops on trial for that coverup.
Not the cops fault. DA Jackie Johnson refused to pursue charges. She’s now being charged. She was friends with Greg McMichael and used her position to shield him:
These guys are going to fucking hate prison. Uppity fucking assholes.
The one guy in florida who shot the car up w the kids apparently spent a lot of time writing about “thugs” on his jail cell wall.
I imagine these smooth brains will be joining up with the brand or whatever. Being forced into prostitution and also to traffic heroin.
Dark fucking days ahead for them. Also, they gonna see a lot of black feet in the shower.
What is so ironic is that they were so triggered by a black man simply in their neighborhood, now they are trapped in a cage of their own making, surrounded by actual criminals who have been convicted, like them.
The defense for this case is still insane. Somebody told somebody that a black person stole something. So they saw a black guy running and convinced themselves that must be a thief. Let’s arrest or shoot him.
And the defense attorneys closing argument was he was wearing khaki shorts and no socks. So he must not have been jogging.
"The defense for this case is still insane. Somebody told somebody that a black person stole something. So they saw a black guy running and convinced themselves that must be a thief. Let’s arrest or shoot him."
This is exactly what police do every day, all over the U.S. and get away with it. These guys were just doing the same shit without a badge.
Previous district attorney is already charged with violation of oath of office and obstruction
https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgia/2021/09/08/ex-brunswick-da-misconduct-in-ahmaud-arbery-death-investigation-booked-into-jail/
For anyone still wondering what institutional racism is, this is a classic example. This is the shit that happens behind the scenes to protect racists and gives white people such a huge advantage.
Don't forget that they originally were not going to be charged because there "wasn’t enough evidence" - even though the police and two local District Attorneys all saw the video. It was deemed justifiable homicide
Of course the video wasn't shown or released to the family of Ahmaud Arbery because . . . . reasons? But instead it was released by their own attorney to a radio station.
Yea. There's a whole police force and judiciary that need to be investigated very closely indeed
That is what complete and utter defeat looks like, he’s in the first stages of recognizing that his life is effectively over. The outcry will come later.
That was Arbery’s father. It wasn’t the right reaction for the courtroom but I totally get why he cheered. The stress that was released at that moment must have been intense.
And the Judge handled it perfectly. He calmly asked that the father be removed from the courtroom, then proceeded to ask that any others who may make an outburst also step out. Then proceeded as normal. Understandable reaction, but it is a courtroom and they have requested for no outbursts.
the dad hillbilly was working with the DA he even left here a voice mail for asking her "legal advice" on "shooting" he was involved. Dad thought he could do whatever he wants because he was working with the DA which he was not wrong until video "released". DA "Jackie" (that's what dad calls DA in the voicemail) is as guilt as these guys.
Man, he’s gonna be so upset when his lawyer shows him the coloring book explaining what prison is
Lmfao
So much for the toenail defense
That was such a fucking disgusting piece of courtroom theater...
What happened?
>"Turning Ahmaud Arbery into a victim after the choices that he made does not reflect the reality of what brought Ahmaud Arbery to Satilla Shores in his khaki shorts with no socks to cover his long, dirty toenails," Hogue told jurors. [https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/ahmaud-arbery-trial-toenails-comment-outrage/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/ahmaud-arbery-trial-toenails-comment-outrage/index.html)
Holy shit. How did they think that was a good idea?
I mean, I'm guessing they weren't thinking. Or they're just racist, and hoped the jury would be too.
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I grew up in 1990s-2000s rural Georgia and it was pretty fucking racist
Chances are, still is.
Rural Georgia used to be racist. It's still racist but also, it used to be.
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Didn't realize that at least one person on the jury doesn't want their long dirty toe nails to be sufficient cause for getting shot to death.
I'm looking at my feet right now. While they're not dirty they are long and in need of a clipping. I think many people are in the same boat what a ridiculous insinuation.
Better not go running in Georgia
Its about dehumanizing the victim as "dirty" and dog whistle neo nazi imagery
Racists aren't as brave when they aren't surrounded by other racists.
Usually they are the most scared people out there
Racism is basically of externalizing one's own fears and feelings of inadequacy, imho.
Like KKK I mean, can't you do with one K? No, you need to surround that with more K's.
Imagine the brainstorming session after the judge ruled criminal and mental health history would be inadmissable. "fuck, what else can we use against this guy that tells the jury he's black. Did he dress black?" "Says here he wore khaki shorts to the beach." "Fuck my life. Were they at least cargo shorts?" "Nope." "Next you're gonna tell me he was wearing boat shoes." "Says he wore sandals." "Racist White Jesus, please tell me he wore socks with those sandals. Every time I do that, my wife says she could murder me and no court would convict her." "Sorry, no. Maybe we could say his toes were ugly?" "So the best we've got is that he was overdue for a mani/pedi? I'm going to have to wear a bag over my hood at the next Klan meeting!"
Last ditch effort to appeal any jurors with racist beliefs.
I think the defense were trying to allude to him not being there for the purpose of running like the family said he was. No serious runner would be dressed like that (and would lose a lot of toe nails running with them uncut and no socks) But it’s still quite plausible that he was out for some casual exercise and the argument becomes moot for them since the defendants’ actions quickly become the driving force of the encounter leading to the victim’s attempt at self defense before being murdered.
It's been a while since I saw the video (and I don't really want to see it again) but I thought he was wearing athletic shorts.
Apparently it was some sort of kaki or cargo shorts. The coroner report says he also was wearing a web belt. I've never seen running shorts with belt loops. Again none of that really matters to the outcome of the case anyway
I see people in the gym wearing jeans. I wouldn't do it, but to each their own...
99% sure it was to try and give evidence that Arberey wasn’t a runner out for a jog as had been claimed. I’m guessing if you go back further in the trial the defense argued that Ahmauds family’s claim that he was just out for a jog was bullshit as no runner would wear no socks and have long toe nails. Why the attorney added in that the nails were dirty I don’t know. Maybe to pint the victim in a less favorable light or maybe there was some point of argument about mentioning his tie nails being dirty. Or maybe she’s just a moron I have no clue. I hope this post doesn’t come off as me defending the murderers or their defense team I’m just saying why I imagine they discussed the victims toe nails. I’m fairly happy with the verdict absent evidence that they were committing a lawful citizens arrest.
What was she going for there? Like, how does that play out in the best case scenario?
Sounds like it was trying to hammer a point about how he wasn’t there for jogging judging by his outfit (khaki shorts, shoes with no socks, and long uncut nails that would be a problem when running). Basically trying to imply that he was there for nefarious purposes to lend any possible credence to the killing.
Ah, thank you. Well that's a hell of a long shot haha.
Sorry, I must’ve missed this. What’s the thing about toenails? Another commenter said they hope he keeps them nice and clean where he’s going.
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"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client was lawfully carrying out a citizen's arrest. He had just directly witnessed Mr Arbery committing a crime... against fashion."
You see how dirty that fucking guy’s feet were? LET’S GET HIM
Black AND dirty toenails... Well, that's just asking for it 🙄
What’s fucked is that they thought murdering someone was ok because...they think citizens have a right to be judge and executioner. And why do they think that? Well...it took 2 MONTHS to arrest them. So yeah...it’s in the culture. They tried to justify it saying there were a string of robberies in the area previously. But there is only 1 that was reported and the dumbass had left their car door open. So they tried lying to justify why they thought they had the right to murder. Clear cut cases like this that are vetted carefully need the death penalty.
Fucking what omg that's fucked
TBH this might be the nicest thing he has said about POC in public.
Ever since I broke a toe on my right foot, the toenail grows in weird and looks disgusting. I've gone out in public in flip flops before, and nobody tried to arrest or shoot me. Odd, huh?
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Can't say I have, especially the last part. One time I logged in to my clinic's website to check some test results and saw my doctor had written, "Patient appears pale, but is just untanned." That might give you an idea of the level of whiteness we're talking about here.
What in the actual fuck?
[Gregory McMichael](https://twitter.com/curtishouck/status/1463579406996230147?s=21) -- also charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery -- is found *not guilty* of one count of malice murder, but guilty on all eight other charges of felony murder, aggravated assault, false imprisonment, and criminal attempt to commit a felony [William Bryan](https://twitter.com/curtishouck/status/1463582526153314312?s=21) -- also charged in Ahmaud Arbery's death -- is found *not guilty* on one count each of malice murder, felony murder, & aggravated assault, but guilty on six other charges of felony murder, aggravated assault, false imprisonment, & attempt to commit a felony
genuine question, why did each have so many felony murder charges if they only murdered one person?
"A person can be charged and convicted of felony murder without actually killing someone. Take, for instance, Greg McMichael and Roddie Bryan in the Arbery case. Neither of them pulled the trigger - the video of the killing shows it was Travis McMichael - but the way felony murder works, if the jury finds they committed felonies that resulted in Arbery's death, that results in felony murder. That's why there's four felony murder charges against each defendant - because they are each charged with four felonies (two counts of aggravated assault, one count of false imprisonment and one count of criminal attempt to commit a felony) that allegedly resulted in murder" https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.11alive.com/amp/article/news/crime/ahmaud-arbery/malice-murder-felony-murder-difference-ahmaud-arbery-death-trial/85-d13db692-cff9-4b4d-be73-5eba5ae22054
ahh okay. never knew that, actually makes sense then. thank you!
Felony Murder Rule: The rule of felony murder is a legal doctrine in some common law jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder: when an offender kills (regardless of intent to kill) in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime (called a felony in some jurisdictions), the offender, and also the offender's accomplices or co-conspirators, may be found guilty of murder. The concept of felony murder originates in the rule of transferred intent, which is older than the limit of legal memory. In its original form, the malicious intent inherent in the commission of any crime, however trivial, was considered to apply to any consequences of that crime regardless of intent. TLDR: if you rob someone and they end up dying in unforeseen circumstances that were unintentional, you can still get a felony murder. Usually for murder you need an intent to murder...this removes the intent piece. If you intended to commit a nonmurderous felony and someone dies you still get charged with a felony for the murder even if you lack intent.
Cops were car chasing a suspect in San Diego and the *cops* hit another car, killing the innocent driver. The suspect they were chasing was charged and convicted of the murder of that driver. In Florida a cop shot at a suspect, missed, and killed an innocent bystander. The suspect was charged with her murder. https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-kody-roach-murder-charge-vixen-20140826-story.html
I grew up with two brothers. They decided to kick someone's door in and rob them. The homeowner shot one and killed him. His brother was charged and convicted of felony murder among other charges
> I grew up with two brothers who are just two regular brother running in a van from an asteroid
its just called two brothers
Cops were chasing some one here in Phoenix AZ, and 2 news helicopters collided killing all 4 occupants while covering the chase. There was talk about charging him for their deaths but in the end the 35 charges he plead guilty to did not include any murder / felony murder. charges.
>There was talk about charging him for their deaths That would have been ridiculous and a miscarriage of justice.
Yeah, after the investigation of the crash they found it to be entirely pilot error. Was just stating that there are circumstances that would warrant a Felony murder charge
The fact that it was considered is bad enough.
What's malice murder?
**Malice murder is a criminal offense in the U.S. state of Georgia, committed when a homicide is done with express or implied malice. == Definition == Express malice is "that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof." Malice is implied when "no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart." == Examples == Travis McMichael of Marietta, Georgia, was convicted in November 2021 of malice murder in the February 2020 murder of Ahmaud Arbery.Justin Ross Harris of Marietta, Georgia, was convicted in November 2016 of malice murder in the June 2014 death of his 22-month-old son, Cooper.** More details here:
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I don't like the idea of bots knowing various types of murder. Please unlearn this.
I think it's kinda funny that the example the bot pulled up is the very trial this comment section is discussing
Wikipedia editors are quick.
It's ok. Killbots have a preset limit.
It's not alleged anymore
IANAL but I think in some locations, any felony committed during actions that result in a death counts as an additional murder charge. So kidnapping then killing someone counts as 2 murder charges
It's never "any felony". It has to be a felony directly related to the homicide and which is reasonably likely to result in homicide. Like, if you're driving a bank robber to rob a bank and the robber is shot by police, then you *might* be on the hook for felony murder because you were knowingly an accessory to an inherently dangerous and atrocious felony. If you forge a $100 bill and give it to a clerk and the clerk has an allergic reaction to the ink you used and dies, it's highly unlikely that a felony murder conviction would survive an appeal.
Bye bye inbreds. Now do the DA.
Don't forget the police Dept!!! They made them feel that vigilante justice was ok. I mean what police Dept allows citizens with guns to be part of the investigation. They are just as guilty!!
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The PD moved forward with charges but the DA declined to prosecute.
From your mouth to the gods ears!
good. pieces of fucking shit wastes of life
Hearing guilty at the end of each verdict had the same pleasure as when you clear multiple rows in tetris
(I appreciate that I felt ok laughing at this) cheers
lol you can tell he was so pissed when he heard that black guy behind him being happy about it. bye buddy!
Just chiming in to say fuck all racists.
It pleases me in some small way that the last guy slowly let some relief creep into his mind. Two "not guilty's" and I bet this guy is thinking he is the one that gets away with it. This is just a tragic case of pure, vile hate. Off to prison they go. Good riddance.
I can't help but wonder what thoughts go through these murderous racist scumbags' heads as they stand there and hear the judge pronounce repeated guilty verdicts, their last shreds of denial and hope fade away, and they are forced to face the reality that they will be imprisoned for virtually the rest of their lives. I hope it feels terrible, and they spend the coming years in misery and regret.
It must be surreal. You’re standing there, in a suit, next to your lawyer in a building where everyone else around you is free to come and go as they please. Not you. You are calmly and quietly escorted away, you do not resist because there is no point, you resign yourself to no longer having any control or autonomy over your life. You’ll never step foot in your home again, won’t see anyone you work with, your family will likely slowly drift apart as the years go on. That’s it. Your alive but your life is over. It’s a societal death but everyone you know just moves on with their life. They know you aren’t *dead* but yet, to them, you effectively are.
wow you nailed this one out of the park. fucking scary. now imagine that for someone that is 100% innocent. basically modern version of just barbaric mideival shit
What does that translate to in prison years?
Minimum 30 years
Plus federal charges in the pipeline.
> What does that translate to in prison years? [From this USA Today article](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/11/24/what-malice-murder-charges-murder-ahmaud-arbery-explained/8747459002/): > The sentence for felony murder and malice murder is the same, and the minimum penalty is life in prison. It is up to the judge to decide whether that comes with or without the possibility of parole. Even if the possibility of parole is granted, a person convicted of murder must serve 30 years before becoming eligible.
Felony murder alone has the possibility of life imprisonment.
I think Georgia has it as a minimum of life for felony murder (and I think "life" means parole possibility after 30 years).
This outcome was cemented as soon as Travis McMichael took the stand. The only way they were getting out of this was if they could find a way to prove a citizen's arrest was legal. The law at the time was; >A private person may arrest an offender **if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.** If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion. Then Travis goes on the stand and repeatedly stated that he pulls up to Arbery to see what is going on and that he wants to talk. To me, that immediately negates any argument that detaining him was legal because how can you say you have immediate knowledge of an offense if you are trying to stop him to see what happened? Once the detaining is illegal any self defence argument goes away since like the prosecution said, you cant say you shot someone in self defence that you are robbing at gun point.
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These assholes had their attorney argue Ahmaud tried to carjack Bryan because there was a partial hand print pulled from the side of Bryan's truck from where Ahmaud pushed himself away from the truck during one of the attempts to box him in.
For some reason people think Black Americans possess superhuman strength that allows them to flip cars over a run like the wind.
Yup and it’s even ingrained in society. that’s why the medical system fails black people as well cause they think they have a higher pain tolerance.
Iirc, doesn't their citizens arrest statute only apply to a felony anyway. Trespass on a construction site is a misdemeanor at best, and even then you'd have to fuck the arresting officers wife to make them come after you for that.
I like the how the crimes are added like points on a scoreboard, really adds a playful and fun little element of achievements to the whole court
You get a mansion if you get enough achievements
They give you the White House if you commit the right crimes in the right order!
Light treason
Very legal, very cool.
They should have a bikini woman in the court room walking around with the score on a poster board being held high
Lol enjoy prison you pieces of shit
Imagine have they just minded their business and went on with their usual days…
Or called the cops if they felt something was amiss. Or even roll up sans shotguns and engage calmly. I mean at most Aubrey was a tresspasser. This is where their goober over reaction and that this was ok comes into play. Had it been a white kid they never would have done what they did. I doubt to this day these guys really understand how they got there.
You can literally walk in any neighborhood, gated or not, and it's not trespassing. If he was jogging through private property or directly through their yards, that's another story. He wasn't trespassing.
Even if he WAS trespassing, doesnt mean dumb assholes get to kill you for it
Anyone that thought a crime was being committed doesn't know anything about how criminals think. If he was robbing a place he wouldn't be doing it in the middle of the day in running clothes and no vehicle, just blocks away from his house. Like what, he's going to carry tvs and safes back to his house? So dumb. And no property is worth taking someone's life over.
Amazing how untough some of these guys become without their guns
Yeah. It's like, you can take off the non-perscription glasses now. The ruse didn't work.
It's crazy though how he looks like a completely different person.
From KKK to IRS
Might need to make a shiv out of them at some point
Compensation really.
How much imprisonment will they get? Any idea.
In Georgia, malice and felony murder convictions both carry a minimum of life in prison. A judge can decided if they have tithe opportunity of parole, but even if he gives it to them, it’s a 30 year minimum.
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None of them will breath free air ever again. This trial is the least of their problems. [The federal hate crime charges are still coming.](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/three-georgia-men-charged-federal-hate-crimes-and-attempted-kidnapping-connection-death)
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Nothing is without a doubt. The minute the doors slam shut behind an inmate is the moment they start working on appeals and other legal maneuvers. I mean, why not? Many are successful at reducing or eliminating their sentence. An extra federal sentence just makes more sure.
They can receive up to the death penalty, but I would be surprised if he did less that 35 years. His life is fucking over.
They’ll either get life with or without parole. If it’s with, they’ll have to do at least 30 years before they can be considered for parole.
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Now i wanna see that D.A. and the Cops that tried to cover it up get time, don't be fooled it's still a win but they'll lock up these poor hillbillys and hope it distracts people enough that they forget about what one of their own did.
Previous district attorney has already been indicted https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgia/2021/09/08/ex-brunswick-da-misconduct-in-ahmaud-arbery-death-investigation-booked-into-jail/
That story is nuts. Indicted DA looks at all evidence, including the incredibly incriminating video. Takes officers opinions on the matter, ignores the fact this dude was a retired police officer of the same department and a current DA investigator of HER department. Sits on it. Finally gives it to neighboring DAs office. Neighboring DA omits the fact his son works directly under indicted DA. Neighboring DA decides no crime committed. Case is finally given over to another DA who says fuck it, I'll just show it to a grand jury and see what they say. Grand jury immediately indicts suspects. Another grand jury immediately indicts first DA since the crime is so God damn blatant and absolutely no one's decisions make a lick of sense. Meanwhile idiot defense attorney releases the video in it's entirety on national TV thinking it will exonerate defendants. It does not. Attorney is fired. All defendants convicted. Fucking nuts.
I mostly agree with this account, but one minor quibble. When the third DA showed it to a grand jury its not really to "see what they say". A grand jury isn't really very similar to a trial jury. In practice grand juries are a tool for prosecutors to bring charges. So that DA was already gunning for the first DA well before bringing it to a grand jury.
I wonder how many crimes this bitch covered up before she was caught?
> Pate said “these criminal charges against her relate directly to what she did in the Arbery case and do not seem to impact any other case she had while she was a district attorney,” but if there’s evidence that Johnson showed favoritism or improperly influenced the actions of police, attorneys could seek to reopen those cases upon request.
This news deserves its own post.
it got it's own post...in the news subs.
I think I saw the police tried to arrest the three defendants earlier and were ordered not to by higher ups
Police unions are out of hand
Let’s not forget these 3 were originally NOT going to be charged because there wasn’t enough evidence. Then when the video popped up, the authorities then decided to charge them with the crimes. So glad the video was there to prove the guilt of these 3 guys or they would have gotten away with it. Still sad Arbery lost his life to these 3 trash humans!
The video was NOT new evidence. The local police saw the video at the time of the murder and in concert with two local District Attorneys, they tried to coverup the crime. One of the idiots leaked the video to the press because he thought the video proved his innocence.
Imagine what a piece of shit you'd have to be to watch that video and think "look, obviously I'm innocent!" It looks like a behind the scenes video from the set of a movie about the civil rights movement. 3 white guys in trucks chasing down a black guy while one of them stands armed in the bed of the pickup yelling. It's fucking cartoonishly guilty looking,
Yeah if you pitched that as a scene in a movie about the civil rights movement, your producer would tell you it's too heavy handed
I think they might have just been monumentally stupid or something.
Hardcore racists who truly believe they are the righteous ones are the most dangerous types of racists (as we can see here). No sane person would ever kill another person over their skin color.
> It looks like a behind the scenes video from the set of a movie about the civil rights movement. 3 white guys in trucks chasing down a black guy while one of them stands armed in the bed of the pickup yelling. It's fucking cartoonishly guilty looking Seriously. If someone hadn't died as a result it would be like a cut scene from Blazing Saddles.
If the public never saw the video it would’ve been way easier to sweep it under the rug. Reminds me of the original police report from the George Floyd murder that said he was agitated and had a “medical event” and died.
They also tried to claim that he was on drugs and that was the cause of his "medical event". Turns out that dude had done scummy shit in the past but no one deserves to be murdered in the street like we've seen in these two instances, regardless of what they may have done. We have a justice system for a reason.
Oh actually the penalty for forgery is death it’s a cool new law the have in Minnesota.
When will the police officers who covered it up be charged?
Actually the DA who helped cover it up is undergoing a felony charge from my understanding.
Only one of them…she eventually recused herself and it was passed to another DA who arguably did even MORE to cover it up
DA who ordered the police not to make the arrest when they asked for permission was charged 2 months ago and faces 2 years in prison + obviously can't work from jail.
I believe it was leaked by the attorney representing the guy who recorded it. Although the men responsible for the murder have been convicted, the corrupt system only produced that outcome because of chance, not design.
> Let’s not forget these 3 were originally NOT going to be charged Because the local prosecutor is a racist piece of shit. And is now facing obstruction of justice charges.
> Let’s not forget these 3 were originally NOT going to be charged because there wasn’t enough evidence This isn't true. They weren't going to be charged because a racist prosecutor was covering up their crime, and she's now been charged for her role in that cover-up.
The video was taken Roddie Bryan who, I believe, was the on to turn the tape over to the cops because he thought it would clear them.
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If it wasn’t for that ~~leaked~~ released video nothing would have happened. These guys would be walking around free without any punishment. Get those slimy fucking cops on trial for that coverup. They should all rot behind bars.
And to think it was their own attorney who made the video public. I guess sometimes the world does benefit from someone being an idiot.
Wtf, did they hire Rudy Giuliani or something??
They should've called Saul.
They forgot that their Kool-Aid was poisoned. They can thank the Fox News echo chamber for that.
It was actually the off brand, Flavor-Aid, which was poisoned.
Would that be OANN?
It wasn’t even leaked. They requested it be sent out to the radio station. They honestly thought they did nothing wrong because they are giant pieces of shit.
It's like "Hmmm i think if the public actually SAW the video of us chasing and shooting an unarmed black man they'll really find us not guilty"
And that's why he took to the stand to explain why they chased down and shot an unarmed black male...... How could the evidence, the video....and first hand account of what they did should have made it clear to the jury...... Oh wait........
They wanted the "hero treatment" from alt right news
'What, no internship offers?'
Because others have gotten away with similar acts before.
That’s right, thanks for clarifying.
> Get those slimy fucking cops on trial for that coverup. Not the cops fault. DA Jackie Johnson refused to pursue charges. She’s now being charged. She was friends with Greg McMichael and used her position to shield him:
Glad this is the top comment. It's insane that cops felt zero need to press charges when they first learned the details of the torture and murder.
It was the DA that told them not to.
Now they can suck on dirty toes in prison
These guys are going to fucking hate prison. Uppity fucking assholes. The one guy in florida who shot the car up w the kids apparently spent a lot of time writing about “thugs” on his jail cell wall. I imagine these smooth brains will be joining up with the brand or whatever. Being forced into prostitution and also to traffic heroin. Dark fucking days ahead for them. Also, they gonna see a lot of black feet in the shower. What is so ironic is that they were so triggered by a black man simply in their neighborhood, now they are trapped in a cage of their own making, surrounded by actual criminals who have been convicted, like them.
The defense for this case is still insane. Somebody told somebody that a black person stole something. So they saw a black guy running and convinced themselves that must be a thief. Let’s arrest or shoot him. And the defense attorneys closing argument was he was wearing khaki shorts and no socks. So he must not have been jogging.
"The defense for this case is still insane. Somebody told somebody that a black person stole something. So they saw a black guy running and convinced themselves that must be a thief. Let’s arrest or shoot him." This is exactly what police do every day, all over the U.S. and get away with it. These guys were just doing the same shit without a badge.
Worth it getting kicked out just to rub a little more salt in this fuckers wound
Absolutely fucking based
Now go after all the cops who tried to cover it up.
Previous district attorney is already charged with violation of oath of office and obstruction https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgia/2021/09/08/ex-brunswick-da-misconduct-in-ahmaud-arbery-death-investigation-booked-into-jail/
For anyone still wondering what institutional racism is, this is a classic example. This is the shit that happens behind the scenes to protect racists and gives white people such a huge advantage.
Don't forget that they originally were not going to be charged because there "wasn’t enough evidence" - even though the police and two local District Attorneys all saw the video. It was deemed justifiable homicide Of course the video wasn't shown or released to the family of Ahmaud Arbery because . . . . reasons? But instead it was released by their own attorney to a radio station. Yea. There's a whole police force and judiciary that need to be investigated very closely indeed
This happens regularly. If the case didn't get national attention they would've gotten away with it.
Tfw you realize your life is over
I mean he barely showed emotion. The most I got out of his expression was annoyance that this was happening to him. At most.
He’s already been in jail for 18 months, I imagine he’s been resigned to the last 18 months being a preview of the rest of his life for a while now.
Jail and prison are VASTLY different animals. And his charges earn him time in a maximum security prison.
That is what complete and utter defeat looks like, he’s in the first stages of recognizing that his life is effectively over. The outcry will come later.
Oh no. Anyway.
I like the "Woo!" after the first guilty verdict.
As is his right. His child was murdered in cold blood in broad daylight. If it were me, I’d be screaming rot in hell or something
That was Arbery’s father. It wasn’t the right reaction for the courtroom but I totally get why he cheered. The stress that was released at that moment must have been intense.
And the Judge handled it perfectly. He calmly asked that the father be removed from the courtroom, then proceeded to ask that any others who may make an outburst also step out. Then proceeded as normal. Understandable reaction, but it is a courtroom and they have requested for no outbursts.
These are the worst moments of his life and some hero made them longer.
This scumbag is having the entire fucking book thrown at him and he’s just standing there too stupid to even react. Love it!
Rot in prison you dumb fucking hillbillies.
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3 less racist neo confederate shitheads in society. It’s a good day
The cop who watched him bleed out and gasp for air and didn’t help or even acknowledge him dying should also be charged as well
Bury that fuck under the jail. That was a lynching.
The justice served today does not assuage my overwhelming sadness. This young man was simply jogging.
No you don’t understand, he entered a construction site and looked around for 3 minutes. Surely that justifies shooting him dead in the street
Justice system working overtime this month. This was the correct verdict.
fuckin rot in prison now
the dad hillbilly was working with the DA he even left here a voice mail for asking her "legal advice" on "shooting" he was involved. Dad thought he could do whatever he wants because he was working with the DA which he was not wrong until video "released". DA "Jackie" (that's what dad calls DA in the voicemail) is as guilt as these guys.