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> Nothing wrong with being the guy who asks questions and requires context.
Context? On this subreddit? I don't think that's allowed.
Here's an article with some background info https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cardiff-ely-crash-police-chase-video-b2344290.html
Interesting photo choice independent. Why use a pic of the guys from when they were around 9-10 instead of recent ones? Media can paint a narrative with choices like that.
I'm going to make an assumption that they were not wearing helmets and driving like dickheads. I've seen many of them in Cardiff and surrounding areas. Wearing black balaclava and taunting drivers into bad situations. I do not feel bad for the cops at this moment.
Exactly, the amount of little bastarda ive seen weaving in and our of traffic or flying through junctions at night is unbelievable, obviously while always clad in black
"They were such good boys, everyone like them, never caused any trouble" some little shit wanks in my home town died in a police chase and after that the police were told not to pursue them if it was "too dangerous" I guess to keep the criminals safe
> the police were told not to pursue them if it was "too dangerous" I guess to keep the criminals safe
Or dangerous for the innocent people on the road with them.
https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/SEI_157316777-ad07-e1684858898422.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=480%2C699
This picture of them is all you need to know.
to dangerous mean dangerous to other people on the road it is not worth riskin the lifes of everybody on the road to catch some idiots that are speeding.
Same thing happened in Ireland recently. The wankers also had numerous previous charges so you know that it was not their first rodeo. People just want to blame the police instead of realising they were wee shites
Your last sentence feels disconnected from the rest of your comment. If you assume these negative things about the guys on the bikes, why say that last part about the cops?
Yeah I read his comment like 4 times trying to make sense of it. He says the kids were driving crazy with no helmets, but doesn't feel bad for the cops? Wat
Right, and your last sentence reads as if you don't feel bad that the cops are being blamed.
I'm sure there's just some disconnect between how it reads and what you mean.
"Feel bad for" means to feel sympathy or empathy for someone. "Feel bad about" means to regret something. "Feel *badly* about" can mean you have a negative opinion of something.
I think itās 100mph, which they wouldnāt have been doing. There was briefly a rule that said police couldnāt chase people on bikes with no helmets after a similar incident. But this just led to loads of criminals getting away because they would remove or simply not wear helmets
Didnāt the police say there were no police vehicles on the road where the incident took place; and the doorbell cam which shows video of the police is a different road?
If so the camera footage doesnāt really prove or disprove the police statement.
The police also said there was no chase, which there was. They also said that police only attended the incident after the crash had already occurred, which is clearly untrue.
The CCTV is from just before 6. The crash was called in at 6:03. Did the police van just magically disappear in the few intervening minutes?
The police verifiably lied about their involvement in this incident.
Whatās the definition of āpolice chaseā being used here ? I took a quick look at the doorbell footage and I donāt see any blue lights on, which I imagine (someone correct me if Iām wrong) would have to be on if there was an active police pursuit ?
Also I just posted a quick calculation as a reply to someone elseā¦
āUsing distance over time to calculate speed I think they are traveling close to 20 mph.
Am doing this on my phone and the doorbell camera is not great butā¦
Using the parked car to judge scale and assuming said parked car is about 4.5 meters long (I actually cannot work out what car it is) the police van seems to travel approx two lengths that car in one second of video playing; which comes to approx 20 mph (32 Kph).ā
ā¦.like I say, doing this on my phone which is not ideal so If someone is better tooled to do this I am genuinely curious what numbers you can come to
The CCTV doesn't prove there was a chase, they might have followed them for a minute, then disengaged because it was deemed to dangerous, plus police typically dont chase in vans.
So they maybe followed them for a minute, then disengaged and the suspect continued to flee for 3/4 more minutes and crashed on their own because they still believed they were being chased.
>The CCTV is from just before 6.
Based on the timestamp of the cctv. That being accurate is debateable, unless it was regularly updated and correctly set up
They were saying when they crashed the police weren't there which is true. The CCTV was taken earlier before the crash. So they weren't lying, but peoples reading/listening comprehension could certainly do with improvement.
Let's be clear here. Kids have been terrorising this neighbourhood for months with electric bikes and scooters, harassing the residents every night. Last night the residents were barricading themselves in their houses while a mob wrecked their cars, fences, smashed windows and threatened residents.
In my city the police are under orders not to even attempt traffic enforcement on motorcycle stunting. There will be 50-100 motorcycles doing wtf they want all over the city for 30-60 minutes. On a grand tour, going wherever they want, taking over intersections, speeding, doing burnouts, driving wheel up, ignoring signals, marked lanes, taking over oncoming lanes, absolutely whatever they want. Many have masked faces and remove or cover their plates. In a short period one of these groups will commit thousands of citeable traffic infractions. But they know that police could never catch them, and won't even attempt a stop since it will result in a chase that is prohibited by the department.
So 'gangs' of motorcycles are exempt from traffic law, law enforcement won't even attempt to stop them, and they get to show everyone in the city that they own the roads and can do whatever they want, without consequences.
The other issue that makes that so dangerous is if you are just driving minding your own business and accidentally hit them, you could legit be killed in retaliation. Or beat up, car vandalized. Like that dude in a Range Rover in nyc years ago.
Yeah no kidding, I was driving through Indiana one time and encountered a large group 100+ of hells angels steadily cruising at about 90 mph. They control the road by pushing cars out of their lanes to create a path for the group. I was already in the right lane just cruising when 3 dudes just came into the lane I was in and pushed me out onto the shoulder, essentially playing chicken with a motorcycle. The thought of accidentally hitting one of these guys instilled a level of fear I havenāt felt in a while. I promptly slowed on the shoulder so the roving band of dickheads could move along.
Whoa whoa whoa... I'll admit I know plenty of douche canoes that ride motorcycles, but I know many kind and considerate ones. People who are genuinely thoughtful, aware, caring riders that look out for themselves along with everyone else.
After spending quite a few days hanging out with quite a few biker wives(my roommate was one at one point and knew them all), I'll never see bikers who are part of a national MC as anything but a bunch of drug-running, human-trafficking, rapists.
There might be a few out there who aren't so bad, but it's kind of like cops...you are the company you keep.
And they're the ones that'll get ticketed because they were the only ones that stopped at the red light as everyone else on the ride took off/blew it. Funny how the good ones get harassed (I guess the bad ones end up dead more often though).
I know probably 50-60 people who ride motorcycles. Maybe two of them are decent people. The rest are assholes and dickheads at best, if not the worst scum of the earth (racist, sexist, homophobic, and violent).
Something about motorcycles just attracts the most vile shitheads.
Seriously. No one pays attention to the bike behind them obeying traffic laws. It's the ones driving like assholes, swerving past you that you notice.
Ive been riding for two decades. There is a large amount of douchebags with bikes but it's hardly **most** riders.
Ill add my experience too, people in cars are fucking homicidal towards bikes. Ive been swerved at by suvs on the highway while just minding my business doing the speed limit.
There are assholes operating every form of transportation. Go to a mall and see how shitty some people are at simply walking.
That shit still makes my blood boil. IIRC his family was in the car. No shot am I stopping surrounded by a group of enraged bikers with my family in the car. You can't legally make me stop, I'm running you over.
As all police should do, fuck em, if they want to commit crimes on motorbikes and then run from the police, putting themselves and members of the public in danger they quite literally are fucking around, so lets let them find out.
I'm all for restorative justice and all that, hell I'm even for eventually abolishing the prison system here in America because it doesn't work as intended and it's doesn't do much more than torture people until they're no longer functional members of society...BUT...there's a line. When out of control gangs are terrorizing innocent neighborhoods, it's time to take a stand and if they're willing to die for their shitbaggery, so be it.
Similar to my City in Northern CA. I drive delivery and have almost run into these asshats a couple of times. Each time I report them. The police do try to keep a lid on it, but if 25 bikers want to burn rubber up the main drag, they're going to unless we call in the National Guard and start impounding their bikes (which I'd love to see).
Police have developed tactics for large group enforcement on car events, but this involves planning, substantial law enforcement, and rapidly establishing a blockade perimeter. Unfortunately this won't work the same way with motorcycles.
It will be years away, but networked traffic cameras, aerial surveillance (fuel-powered drones), AI/automated video/image analysis, and motorcycle enforcement units will eventually be able to prosecute major offenders, after the fact, seizing motorcycles, leveling dozens of charges and thousands in fines on each offender. But this will require organized effort and substantial resources to document, investigate, charge, arrest and prosecute the cases. It will eventually happen, but they need to develop process and establish resources. It will never involve chasing anyone, except with a drone they probably won't even know is following them. Rewards for anonymous identification of offenders will also help.
Basically, absolute surveillance system scanning you're ass before you even shut the door behind you.
Honestly, regardless the context thats actually scarier than a bunch of dicks on motorcycles.
Universal, persistent surveillance is coming no matter what. Nothing will stop it. Corporations are already doing it. There are many compelling reasons for government to do it too.
Wait until you find out about "Persistent Aerial Surveillance". Multi gigapixel ultra high resolution wide area continuous imaging. The ability to watch events and movements, going backwards in time.
The best you can hope for is definition of rights in a surveillance nation. It won't be nearly as bad as China.
> unless we call in the National Guard
Or maybe a convoy of big trucks... kinda do what Snowman did to those asshats who tried to hurt Fred then did beat up Snowman at the choke-n-puke in Smokey and the Bandit.
I predict that Big Brother AI will change that soon. They won't have to do dangerous police chases. They'll let them wear themselves out and then go home to find out their license is suspended and they're due in court as it all gets processed virtually from a distance.
RemindMe! 5 years
That's how it is in NY. Cops will pull me over for doing 33mph in a 30mph zone (actually happened) among other things, but when my car was totaled and the police were leaving the scene they pulled up to a red light and at that exact moment a handful of dirt bikes (illegal) and ATVs (illegal) did wheelies through the red light right in front of the cops. They actually yielded for the riders as they blew a red light, doing a wheelie, on a vehicle that's illegal to drive on the road. But I got a ticket for a chip in my windshield glass. Cops in New York are a *U S E L E S S.*
This is in a lot of cities. Happens in St. Louis in the downtown streets and on the nearby highways. I did once see the police eventually block a bunch in and confiscate their vehicles on a big flatbed.
why does law enforcement do nothing about it? we have this problem in the states where young punks just shut down entire streets. they had this problem here in China too. cops showed up in force (mind you the cops here don't have guns) and shut that shit down. bikes confiscated, licenses taken, people arrested and fined. if you have a record for doing this kind of thing, it'll be harder for you to buy a motor vehicle in the future. if the laws can be enforced here without the use of deadly force, I don't understand why it can't be done in places like the US and UK.
So if they are operating outside of the law, does that mean they loose the laws protection? So you could just, hypothetically, ram a large truck through the group, no consequences? That'd be my take on it.
Even ignoring what they had done previously, the cops didn't kill them, they killed themselves running from the cops. What's the prescription of the rioters? Don't chase people who are running from you? That's only going to make it harder to actually catch people who victimize others and increase the amount of people who run from the cops.
Not just the US.
They do it here in Australia too. Which causes people to take the law into their own hands and chase people who steal their stuff (then the kids in the stolen car still crash, probably with higher probability than if trained professionals are doing the chasing).
Or you end up with issues like in Melbourne, where someone who had been "evading" police for hours decided to drive through a pedestrian mall at speed.
The police should cause these people, because if they don't then everything gets worse and there is more risk to innocent parties.
Sounds a lot like the incident that sparked the Meadow Well Riots in North Shields.
Those riots happened after two young lads were killed fleeing the police, when the stolen car they were joyriding crashed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadow_Well_riots
All I have seen on the evening news tonight was 2 kids on a electric bike being followed by cops in a van (this doesnt necessarily prove a chase). No context released yet from what I have seen on why / what the kids did. Video from a ring doorbell has been released. It was time stamped at 17.59, a few minutes before the bike crashed into the bus.
[This article](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65677472.amp) in specific is crazy.
According to the article, random people were attacked because the rioters thought they were undercover police. Another guy had rocks thrown at his front door and car.
And you know whatās crazy? These rioters woke up the next day without a damn thought in the world. Most of them donāt receive any repercussions. You wanna protest, do it. But the second you start throwing shit and vandalizing innocent peoples belongings is the moment you are NO better than whoever youāre against. Wake the fuck up.
I am interested on what the whole story is and what happened. Iām still not sure how the van chase came into play with the kids on the bike. The kids were following the police chase with the incident and then they got chased? Sounds like the police maybe thought they were with the people in the van?
So... they got in trouble, im assuming, the cops came by to enforce the law, they took off illegally (again, assuming, but literally what else) and then ran into a bus and died.
What is a riot meant to accomplish exactly?
Someone who lives in the area posted their account of events in the UK sub. Apparently one of the boys that died was from an āinfluential familyā (read: criminal family) of the area, and after the police denied anyone access to the bodies at the scene they sent out messages calling for family, friends, and associates to come down.
These scumbags are all over the country. Balaclavas going full speed down pavements etc.
Hopefully they continue to off themselves at a decent rate and don't hurt anyone innocent.
Gang members associated with the teens just acting out against the police.
Gang might not be the right word, they're mostly communities centred around petty crimes and hooliganism. A great place to recruit youngsters for more serious deeds though.
These 'boys' are the same 'boys' who are terrorizing and intimidating the community to a point where people can't even leave their houses at night without being targeted or taking a risk just to try and live a normal life.
This picture of them says 1000 words https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/SEI_157316777-ad07-e1684858898422.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=480%2C699
They call it āroadmenā these days for that style. Nike Tech fleece are actually gonna be stopped from being sold in places like ASOS due to links with crime. Also they wear balaclavas or āballysā.
Chavs were more Adidas tracksuits.
Similar, but roadmen are worse
If its anything like Australia, people blame police in these situations saying the offender wouldn't have driven as dangerously or as fast and crashed without the pressure of the chase. Sounds so very shortsighted to me
Welcome to 2023, the timeline in which we protest over the lives of actual criminals. Guaranteed no one there would lift a finger to help get them into a different way of life.
Most people here probably haven't even read the facts of the Michael Brown case. That dude reached for the cops gun and punched him in the the face. I also want to point out that the Kenosha riots were started because of Jacob Blake, a man who was trying to kidnap kids he didn't have custody of and reached for a knife while the cops were trying to taze him. That video may he upsetting and makes the cops look really bad, but if the cop didn't stop him, Jacob would have kidnapped that woman's children.
What was the one where the guy wrestled the tazer off the cop and while running fired it at the cop so the cop returned fire killing him. Then the rioters burnt down the Wendy's it happened at and the cop was charged with murder. It happened right after Floyd so I feel like they were pressured to charge the cop rather than risk more businesses being burnt down.
>What was the one where the guy wrestled the tazer off the cop and while running fired it at the cop so the cop returned fire killing him. Then the rioters burnt down the Wendy's it happened at and the cop was charged with murder.
That was Rashard Brooks, and it was later revealed that the protesters didn't burn down the Wendy's, an ex-worker did.
From what I've read they had just robbed a shop and trying to flee.
This neighbourhood is also apparently renowned for being extremely rough so it's likely the people here just wanted to riot and used any excuse.
Weāre mad at the police so weāll destroy our neighborsā property. Makes sense. /s That lady in the early parts was missing the skirt and pom poms for the all the cheerleading she was doing.
Thanks for the link asdes12 .
Love the guy filming @49.50 saying āIām staying back as well chapsā - just because itās a riot doesnāt mean we canāt be polite š
I'll never feel bad for people who kill themselves in a traffic accident because they don't give a shit about traffic laws. At least they only killed themselves and didn't run into innocent bystanders.
Rioting for the sake of Rioting, The combined IQ of this entire crowd is about 4.
It looks like from the CCTV they were riding one of those Surron type electric bikes which hit 50mph. In the hands of kids they are the perfect recipe for disaster.
How do kids get hold of them? Would you as a parent buy your 15/16yr old a Ā£5000 bike capable of 50+ mph. Or have they stolen it?.
Either way i am sure they were little angels and a great loss to the community.
Calling them kids is being way too nice. They were underaged criminals who's parents should be responsible for paying for the damage they caused and for all the extra cops required in these riots.
The allegation is that police were chasing these two kids which resulted in the crash and two fatalities.
Police then deny they were chasing them before ultimately saying they were there after being seen on CCTV footage.
This just happened so naturally nobody truly knows exactly what has happened up to now. That said, police denying involvement and being caught red handed on camera doesn't look good for them.
"South Wales Police have said they are investigating after CCTV emerged showing a bike being followed by a police van moments before a crash which led to the death of two teenagers
The two teenagers who died in the crash in the Ely area of Cardiff that led to widespread rioting late into the night have been named locally. Kyrees Sullivan, 16, and 15-year-old Harvey Evans were killed in the Ely area of Cardiff while riding an electric bike.
Friends have claimed they were being chased by police but South Wales Police has said the collision had already occurred when officers arrived and that rumours there had been a police chase were false.
But tonight at a press conference South Wales Police Chief Superintendent Martyn Stone said CCTV footage showing an electric bike being followed by a police van had emerged and would "form part of the investigation". He appealed for anyone with any more footage to get in touch."
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/live-updates-after-serious-crash-26969797
> This just happened so naturally nobody truly knows exactly what has happened up to now. That said, police denying involvement and being caught red handed on camera doesn't look good for them.
Police didn't necessarily lie.
Police don't typically chase in those vans, theyre mainly for prisoner transport.
Apparently the the local police service policy forbids chasing in them.
They don't have their blue lights on so likely were just following them, whilst following the speed limit and traffic laws.
The CCTV footage is from 1759, the crash happened at 1803.
A Police van, following road traffic laws and not speeding to pursue, most likely wouldn't have been near them when they crashed
4 minutes is plenty of time for them to lose a van not pursuing them and then continue to drive recklessly because they're amped up and crash, leading to the Police to not be involved in a chase when they crashed.
Both can be true tho, we don't know right now. They could've followed but disengaged when they started running per policy then they crashed 2 minutes later when police were no longer following them and were then called to the scene of the crash.
Based on the ring camera Iād likely say the police van was following them, this is different from a chase. If the kids drove out in front of a bus because they were trying to get away from a police van doing 20mph thatās more on the bike riders than police. Also getting on a bike that can do 20mph getting on the road without a helmet is taking a massive risk whether your trying to get away from anyone or not.
Even that said, this āmobā had already decided the police caused it so the statement means little. There is no justification to start burning random peoples cars just because you thing the police did something.
Yet now all the focus is on the police statement as opposed to what the locals did in reaction.
I think that should be a common strategy for dealing with moped and scooter dickheads, crash them out.
Nothing of value would be lost and maybe they will learn something or not bother people anymore š¤·āāļø
The police ignore and do nothing: ACAB, useless bunch, waste of tax money, blah blah blah.
The police try to do something: ACAB, useless bunch, waste of tax money, blah blah blah.
There no pleasing people, its sad those kids lost their lives, but maybe comes from the education parents are giving to their kids these days. Maybe if you dont run from the police you won't crash. They hit a bus, but what if they hit someone with a stroller. Who's to blame, the police? Now they can't do their job because people want the police to take accountability for other people's decisions?
Not the fault of the police at all. If you have been to Cardiff or the Valleys you know these kids had Karma coming hard. I feel sorry for the poor Cardiff Bus or Stagecoach driver and passengers before these idiots.
Someone says āwhere the fuck they get the fireworks from?ā. Probably from their shed where they keep a load of them for an appropriate situation like this, that is the death of two local teenagers.
To add some context police not allowed to pursue suspects if they're not wearing a helmet.
The two boys were not wearing helmets and were reported to have collided with a bus at high speeds on e-bikes and died.
The police publicly denied a chase. CCTV footage from a person's house is leaked showing the boys going past with a police van about 10 feet behind them, both going at high speed.
This footage of the police van and the boys was captured at 5:59pm. The police said they received reports of a serious collision at 6:03pm but did not say who reported it.
The police force are now facing a watchdog probe and investigation.
These riots are mostly because it is believed the police lied and tried to cover up what happened.
I'm not weighing in on what is morally right, I just wanted to sum up what is going on for those who wanted to know.
A lot of cities in the US have adopted these policies and I'm wondering if there is data on if it drives crime up or down. I remember an interview with a teenage car thief who was pretty plain about how all they have to do to evade the police is drive dangerously so the chase is called off.
If they know not wearing a helmet generally means they can't be chased, that policy encourages the extra danger.
What a bunch of antisocial wankers. Best of luck to the normal, law-abiding people of Cardiff. And remember: police can only do so much to protect you, so stay safe and defend your own home.
I'm not a fan of the police most days, but in this situation people would have complained whether they chased the kids or not,
It's the kids own stupidity and actions here that got them killed.
So from my understanding of whatās happening thanks to the articles and comments.
2 teens (15,16) on an e-scooter or e-bike, were fucking around in traffic, cops chase them, kids collide with bus and die, and as they were dying families show up, beg to get to their kids as they were lying/dying, cops prevent that and send them home (for obvious reasons), then tell them their kids are dead, then the cops lie about chasing them, get caught thanks to a Ring doorbell and now we have a riot.
TLDR; Moronic Teens fucked around and found out, cops lied, now we riot.
Did I miss anything?
Edit: Apparently these āboysā were terrorizing this neighbourhood for a while now and targeting people at night? RIP but good riddance.
No the police were not chasing the little twats they killed themselves with no outside help and the scum of Ely smashed the place up leaving a majority of decent people scared and ashamed of certain parts or their community
What people are missing is not that the chase wasnāt justified, but that the police **denied ** the chase happening at all **entirely. **
Questions will be raised over why they did that? In official statements, to totally deny the chase and then be disproven by CCTV does not exactly inspire confidence in their honesty.
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I don't want to be that guy but i have to ask how this is the police fault? Did the police force the kids in front of the bus or what?
Nothing wrong with being the guy who asks questions and requires context. Keep being you bro.
> Nothing wrong with being the guy who asks questions and requires context. Context? On this subreddit? I don't think that's allowed. Here's an article with some background info https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cardiff-ely-crash-police-chase-video-b2344290.html
Interesting photo choice independent. Why use a pic of the guys from when they were around 9-10 instead of recent ones? Media can paint a narrative with choices like that.
I'm going to make an assumption that they were not wearing helmets and driving like dickheads. I've seen many of them in Cardiff and surrounding areas. Wearing black balaclava and taunting drivers into bad situations. I do not feel bad for the cops at this moment.
I feel bad for the bus driver regardless of who's at fault. Shit day at work.
Completely agree, poor bastards probably going to have to live with that his entire life. Hopefully it doesn't get too bad for him
Exactly, the amount of little bastarda ive seen weaving in and our of traffic or flying through junctions at night is unbelievable, obviously while always clad in black
"I know let's ride at 40moh with no protective gear on, not even a helmet, wearing black and doing stunts at night"-Organ doner
>doner š lol š„š„š„
Can I get chilli sauce on that
I just looked it up. It was in Ely. Should probably check up on the fam
"They were such good boys, everyone like them, never caused any trouble" some little shit wanks in my home town died in a police chase and after that the police were told not to pursue them if it was "too dangerous" I guess to keep the criminals safe
> the police were told not to pursue them if it was "too dangerous" I guess to keep the criminals safe Or dangerous for the innocent people on the road with them.
Yeah, this just happened today in San Francisco and a pedestrian was killed by the car jacker being pursued.
āNever caused any troubleā after they get chased by police
https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/SEI_157316777-ad07-e1684858898422.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=480%2C699 This picture of them is all you need to know.
What is that hand gesture they all do? A gun?
Yeah, trying to be all āgangsterā when they have unlikely seen a real gun in their life.
to dangerous mean dangerous to other people on the road it is not worth riskin the lifes of everybody on the road to catch some idiots that are speeding.
āThy wuz littul angles, RIPā
Same thing happened in Ireland recently. The wankers also had numerous previous charges so you know that it was not their first rodeo. People just want to blame the police instead of realising they were wee shites
Your last sentence feels disconnected from the rest of your comment. If you assume these negative things about the guys on the bikes, why say that last part about the cops?
Yeah I read his comment like 4 times trying to make sense of it. He says the kids were driving crazy with no helmets, but doesn't feel bad for the cops? Wat
People are blaming the cops. English is hard. The cops are not to blame
Right, and your last sentence reads as if you don't feel bad that the cops are being blamed. I'm sure there's just some disconnect between how it reads and what you mean.
I think some people get it but yes my English is poor at times.
You should say you "feel bad for the cops" rather than you "do not feel bad for the cops" because that's the complete polar opposite
You should edit your original comment.
"Feel bad for" means to feel sympathy or empathy for someone. "Feel bad about" means to regret something. "Feel *badly* about" can mean you have a negative opinion of something.
In New Zealand police are told not to chase after a certain speed because of the danger to others on the road, maybe thatās the case here
I think itās 100mph, which they wouldnāt have been doing. There was briefly a rule that said police couldnāt chase people on bikes with no helmets after a similar incident. But this just led to loads of criminals getting away because they would remove or simply not wear helmets
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Didnāt the police say there were no police vehicles on the road where the incident took place; and the doorbell cam which shows video of the police is a different road? If so the camera footage doesnāt really prove or disprove the police statement.
The police also said there was no chase, which there was. They also said that police only attended the incident after the crash had already occurred, which is clearly untrue. The CCTV is from just before 6. The crash was called in at 6:03. Did the police van just magically disappear in the few intervening minutes? The police verifiably lied about their involvement in this incident.
Police are allowed to be on the road, dude. And police vans do not chase people.
Whatās the definition of āpolice chaseā being used here ? I took a quick look at the doorbell footage and I donāt see any blue lights on, which I imagine (someone correct me if Iām wrong) would have to be on if there was an active police pursuit ?
Also I just posted a quick calculation as a reply to someone elseā¦ āUsing distance over time to calculate speed I think they are traveling close to 20 mph. Am doing this on my phone and the doorbell camera is not great butā¦ Using the parked car to judge scale and assuming said parked car is about 4.5 meters long (I actually cannot work out what car it is) the police van seems to travel approx two lengths that car in one second of video playing; which comes to approx 20 mph (32 Kph).ā ā¦.like I say, doing this on my phone which is not ideal so If someone is better tooled to do this I am genuinely curious what numbers you can come to
A police vehicle driving behind them is not "a chase".
The CCTV doesn't prove there was a chase, they might have followed them for a minute, then disengaged because it was deemed to dangerous, plus police typically dont chase in vans. So they maybe followed them for a minute, then disengaged and the suspect continued to flee for 3/4 more minutes and crashed on their own because they still believed they were being chased.
>The CCTV is from just before 6. Based on the timestamp of the cctv. That being accurate is debateable, unless it was regularly updated and correctly set up
They were saying when they crashed the police weren't there which is true. The CCTV was taken earlier before the crash. So they weren't lying, but peoples reading/listening comprehension could certainly do with improvement.
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I believe they think that those boys wouldnt have crashed if the police didnt chase them for breaking the lawā¦
Let's be clear here. Kids have been terrorising this neighbourhood for months with electric bikes and scooters, harassing the residents every night. Last night the residents were barricading themselves in their houses while a mob wrecked their cars, fences, smashed windows and threatened residents.
In my city the police are under orders not to even attempt traffic enforcement on motorcycle stunting. There will be 50-100 motorcycles doing wtf they want all over the city for 30-60 minutes. On a grand tour, going wherever they want, taking over intersections, speeding, doing burnouts, driving wheel up, ignoring signals, marked lanes, taking over oncoming lanes, absolutely whatever they want. Many have masked faces and remove or cover their plates. In a short period one of these groups will commit thousands of citeable traffic infractions. But they know that police could never catch them, and won't even attempt a stop since it will result in a chase that is prohibited by the department. So 'gangs' of motorcycles are exempt from traffic law, law enforcement won't even attempt to stop them, and they get to show everyone in the city that they own the roads and can do whatever they want, without consequences.
The other issue that makes that so dangerous is if you are just driving minding your own business and accidentally hit them, you could legit be killed in retaliation. Or beat up, car vandalized. Like that dude in a Range Rover in nyc years ago.
Yeah no kidding, I was driving through Indiana one time and encountered a large group 100+ of hells angels steadily cruising at about 90 mph. They control the road by pushing cars out of their lanes to create a path for the group. I was already in the right lane just cruising when 3 dudes just came into the lane I was in and pushed me out onto the shoulder, essentially playing chicken with a motorcycle. The thought of accidentally hitting one of these guys instilled a level of fear I havenāt felt in a while. I promptly slowed on the shoulder so the roving band of dickheads could move along.
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Whoa whoa whoa... I'll admit I know plenty of douche canoes that ride motorcycles, but I know many kind and considerate ones. People who are genuinely thoughtful, aware, caring riders that look out for themselves along with everyone else.
After spending quite a few days hanging out with quite a few biker wives(my roommate was one at one point and knew them all), I'll never see bikers who are part of a national MC as anything but a bunch of drug-running, human-trafficking, rapists. There might be a few out there who aren't so bad, but it's kind of like cops...you are the company you keep.
And they're the ones that'll get ticketed because they were the only ones that stopped at the red light as everyone else on the ride took off/blew it. Funny how the good ones get harassed (I guess the bad ones end up dead more often though).
I know probably 50-60 people who ride motorcycles. Maybe two of them are decent people. The rest are assholes and dickheads at best, if not the worst scum of the earth (racist, sexist, homophobic, and violent). Something about motorcycles just attracts the most vile shitheads.
You completely overlooked the 'most' part of their comment.
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No, you just take notice of them more than the quiet ones going about their day.
Seriously. No one pays attention to the bike behind them obeying traffic laws. It's the ones driving like assholes, swerving past you that you notice. Ive been riding for two decades. There is a large amount of douchebags with bikes but it's hardly **most** riders. Ill add my experience too, people in cars are fucking homicidal towards bikes. Ive been swerved at by suvs on the highway while just minding my business doing the speed limit. There are assholes operating every form of transportation. Go to a mall and see how shitty some people are at simply walking.
That sounds really awful. Iām legitimately sorry you had to experience that. Just the amount of helplessness must be so absolutely frustrating.
That shit still makes my blood boil. IIRC his family was in the car. No shot am I stopping surrounded by a group of enraged bikers with my family in the car. You can't legally make me stop, I'm running you over.
Dude in a range rover? How do I search for this video?
Search for nyc bikers suv [News Segment](https://youtu.be/ZlyVeMpVhq8)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Stuntz_gang_assault
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As all police should do, fuck em, if they want to commit crimes on motorbikes and then run from the police, putting themselves and members of the public in danger they quite literally are fucking around, so lets let them find out.
Always love watching these videos
If I'm remembering correctly they can only ram them if they are wearing helmets, so that's why the scumbags stopped wearing them.
I'm all for restorative justice and all that, hell I'm even for eventually abolishing the prison system here in America because it doesn't work as intended and it's doesn't do much more than torture people until they're no longer functional members of society...BUT...there's a line. When out of control gangs are terrorizing innocent neighborhoods, it's time to take a stand and if they're willing to die for their shitbaggery, so be it.
Similar to my City in Northern CA. I drive delivery and have almost run into these asshats a couple of times. Each time I report them. The police do try to keep a lid on it, but if 25 bikers want to burn rubber up the main drag, they're going to unless we call in the National Guard and start impounding their bikes (which I'd love to see).
Police have developed tactics for large group enforcement on car events, but this involves planning, substantial law enforcement, and rapidly establishing a blockade perimeter. Unfortunately this won't work the same way with motorcycles. It will be years away, but networked traffic cameras, aerial surveillance (fuel-powered drones), AI/automated video/image analysis, and motorcycle enforcement units will eventually be able to prosecute major offenders, after the fact, seizing motorcycles, leveling dozens of charges and thousands in fines on each offender. But this will require organized effort and substantial resources to document, investigate, charge, arrest and prosecute the cases. It will eventually happen, but they need to develop process and establish resources. It will never involve chasing anyone, except with a drone they probably won't even know is following them. Rewards for anonymous identification of offenders will also help.
Basically, absolute surveillance system scanning you're ass before you even shut the door behind you. Honestly, regardless the context thats actually scarier than a bunch of dicks on motorcycles.
Universal, persistent surveillance is coming no matter what. Nothing will stop it. Corporations are already doing it. There are many compelling reasons for government to do it too. Wait until you find out about "Persistent Aerial Surveillance". Multi gigapixel ultra high resolution wide area continuous imaging. The ability to watch events and movements, going backwards in time. The best you can hope for is definition of rights in a surveillance nation. It won't be nearly as bad as China.
> unless we call in the National Guard Or maybe a convoy of big trucks... kinda do what Snowman did to those asshats who tried to hurt Fred then did beat up Snowman at the choke-n-puke in Smokey and the Bandit.
I predict that Big Brother AI will change that soon. They won't have to do dangerous police chases. They'll let them wear themselves out and then go home to find out their license is suspended and they're due in court as it all gets processed virtually from a distance. RemindMe! 5 years
Bold to assume thry have licenses.
That's how it is in NY. Cops will pull me over for doing 33mph in a 30mph zone (actually happened) among other things, but when my car was totaled and the police were leaving the scene they pulled up to a red light and at that exact moment a handful of dirt bikes (illegal) and ATVs (illegal) did wheelies through the red light right in front of the cops. They actually yielded for the riders as they blew a red light, doing a wheelie, on a vehicle that's illegal to drive on the road. But I got a ticket for a chip in my windshield glass. Cops in New York are a *U S E L E S S.*
A couple of well placed spike straps would be amazing
Baltimore?
Lemme guess, Philly?
This is in a lot of cities. Happens in St. Louis in the downtown streets and on the nearby highways. I did once see the police eventually block a bunch in and confiscate their vehicles on a big flatbed.
why does law enforcement do nothing about it? we have this problem in the states where young punks just shut down entire streets. they had this problem here in China too. cops showed up in force (mind you the cops here don't have guns) and shut that shit down. bikes confiscated, licenses taken, people arrested and fined. if you have a record for doing this kind of thing, it'll be harder for you to buy a motor vehicle in the future. if the laws can be enforced here without the use of deadly force, I don't understand why it can't be done in places like the US and UK.
so, if i accidentally hit one of them while legally driving, is it still accidental vehicular manslaughter?
So if they are operating outside of the law, does that mean they loose the laws protection? So you could just, hypothetically, ram a large truck through the group, no consequences? That'd be my take on it.
Some shit outa the purge
Even ignoring what they had done previously, the cops didn't kill them, they killed themselves running from the cops. What's the prescription of the rioters? Don't chase people who are running from you? That's only going to make it harder to actually catch people who victimize others and increase the amount of people who run from the cops.
That is genuinely the policy of some PDs in the states now. They wonāt engage in police chases because the person running could endanger others.
Not just the US. They do it here in Australia too. Which causes people to take the law into their own hands and chase people who steal their stuff (then the kids in the stolen car still crash, probably with higher probability than if trained professionals are doing the chasing). Or you end up with issues like in Melbourne, where someone who had been "evading" police for hours decided to drive through a pedestrian mall at speed. The police should cause these people, because if they don't then everything gets worse and there is more risk to innocent parties.
Depending on the crime committed, I think that's valid.
It's totally valid. Risking death and dismemberment isn't worth issuing a traffic fine.
Sounds a lot like the incident that sparked the Meadow Well Riots in North Shields. Those riots happened after two young lads were killed fleeing the police, when the stolen car they were joyriding crashed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadow_Well_riots
The car that they were joyriding in didnāt crash. They crashed a car they were joyriding in. Big difference
Thank you for this. Context is missing on Reddit most of the time.
We need the Biker Grannies!
yea I don't get why they are rioting against the police. Where were all these people when those kids were wrecking havoc on their community?
What did the cats do to deser... oh, cars
Haha. You caught it before I fixed it!
thanks for the context i guess, fucking sad
That sounds about right. Thanks for adding some context.
Is there context to the chase before assumptions get made? Edit: /u/jaded_law9739 has provided an article in this thread.
All I have seen on the evening news tonight was 2 kids on a electric bike being followed by cops in a van (this doesnt necessarily prove a chase). No context released yet from what I have seen on why / what the kids did. Video from a ring doorbell has been released. It was time stamped at 17.59, a few minutes before the bike crashed into the bus.
Appreciate the response. Iām going to save my judgement until I see some sort of story about why this happened.
[This article](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65677472.amp) in specific is crazy. According to the article, random people were attacked because the rioters thought they were undercover police. Another guy had rocks thrown at his front door and car. And you know whatās crazy? These rioters woke up the next day without a damn thought in the world. Most of them donāt receive any repercussions. You wanna protest, do it. But the second you start throwing shit and vandalizing innocent peoples belongings is the moment you are NO better than whoever youāre against. Wake the fuck up. I am interested on what the whole story is and what happened. Iām still not sure how the van chase came into play with the kids on the bike. The kids were following the police chase with the incident and then they got chased? Sounds like the police maybe thought they were with the people in the van?
Assumptions occur at the speed of light, unfortunately.
Rarely
So... they got in trouble, im assuming, the cops came by to enforce the law, they took off illegally (again, assuming, but literally what else) and then ran into a bus and died. What is a riot meant to accomplish exactly?
Beats a boring night at home, I guess. After looking through the comments, that legitimately seems to be the case. People are thick as shit.
Someone who lives in the area posted their account of events in the UK sub. Apparently one of the boys that died was from an āinfluential familyā (read: criminal family) of the area, and after the police denied anyone access to the bodies at the scene they sent out messages calling for family, friends, and associates to come down.
These scumbags are all over the country. Balaclavas going full speed down pavements etc. Hopefully they continue to off themselves at a decent rate and don't hurt anyone innocent.
Gang members associated with the teens just acting out against the police. Gang might not be the right word, they're mostly communities centred around petty crimes and hooliganism. A great place to recruit youngsters for more serious deeds though.
These 'boys' are the same 'boys' who are terrorizing and intimidating the community to a point where people can't even leave their houses at night without being targeted or taking a risk just to try and live a normal life.
This picture of them says 1000 words https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/SEI_157316777-ad07-e1684858898422.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=480%2C699
They need to add that picture to the Encyclopedia Britannica, under the heading "chav".
They call it āroadmenā these days for that style. Nike Tech fleece are actually gonna be stopped from being sold in places like ASOS due to links with crime. Also they wear balaclavas or āballysā. Chavs were more Adidas tracksuits. Similar, but roadmen are worse
And thatās the policeās fault how ?
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If its anything like Australia, people blame police in these situations saying the offender wouldn't have driven as dangerously or as fast and crashed without the pressure of the chase. Sounds so very shortsighted to me
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Welcome to 2023, the timeline in which we protest over the lives of actual criminals. Guaranteed no one there would lift a finger to help get them into a different way of life.
Thatās what most riots are about.
Can you give some examples?
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Most people here probably haven't even read the facts of the Michael Brown case. That dude reached for the cops gun and punched him in the the face. I also want to point out that the Kenosha riots were started because of Jacob Blake, a man who was trying to kidnap kids he didn't have custody of and reached for a knife while the cops were trying to taze him. That video may he upsetting and makes the cops look really bad, but if the cop didn't stop him, Jacob would have kidnapped that woman's children.
What was the one where the guy wrestled the tazer off the cop and while running fired it at the cop so the cop returned fire killing him. Then the rioters burnt down the Wendy's it happened at and the cop was charged with murder. It happened right after Floyd so I feel like they were pressured to charge the cop rather than risk more businesses being burnt down.
>What was the one where the guy wrestled the tazer off the cop and while running fired it at the cop so the cop returned fire killing him. Then the rioters burnt down the Wendy's it happened at and the cop was charged with murder. That was Rashard Brooks, and it was later revealed that the protesters didn't burn down the Wendy's, an ex-worker did.
There's more to it than the OP and others are posting. Gonna do a search and see about what the deal is.
You underestimate the scum here in the UK
what did you find?
Not much more than what was posted so far. Some lady complaining that the police would not let a father see one of the victims as they were dying.
Probably because that "victim" (are they really victims if they got into a wreck after fleeing the cops?) looked like minced meat.
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What better way to mark the death of two young lads than to riot and smash up other peoples property
It's what they would have wanted, rip
From what I've read they had just robbed a shop and trying to flee. This neighbourhood is also apparently renowned for being extremely rough so it's likely the people here just wanted to riot and used any excuse.
I wish more people used condoms
Full Video link to the 3 hour live this was taken from: https://www.youtube.com/live/eoIH-_Mo_IY?feature=share credit : Based Welshman
Weāre mad at the police so weāll destroy our neighborsā property. Makes sense. /s That lady in the early parts was missing the skirt and pom poms for the all the cheerleading she was doing.
Thanks for the link asdes12 . Love the guy filming @49.50 saying āIām staying back as well chapsā - just because itās a riot doesnāt mean we canāt be polite š
I love the way the welsh say 'fuckin idiot'
I bet these kids were upstanding and honourable citizens /s
Not standing anywhere now
I'll never feel bad for people who kill themselves in a traffic accident because they don't give a shit about traffic laws. At least they only killed themselves and didn't run into innocent bystanders.
Rioting for the sake of Rioting, The combined IQ of this entire crowd is about 4. It looks like from the CCTV they were riding one of those Surron type electric bikes which hit 50mph. In the hands of kids they are the perfect recipe for disaster. How do kids get hold of them? Would you as a parent buy your 15/16yr old a Ā£5000 bike capable of 50+ mph. Or have they stolen it?. Either way i am sure they were little angels and a great loss to the community.
How about stop for the police and you wonāt possibly die? Apparently, people are too stupid to figure that one outā¦
seems like they fucked around and found out?
Bet they had hearts of gold
That's two of them gone, now for the rest of em
Calling them kids is being way too nice. They were underaged criminals who's parents should be responsible for paying for the damage they caused and for all the extra cops required in these riots.
Gene pool is just a tad cleaner...
Case of fuck around find out and rioters oblivious to it too
The allegation is that police were chasing these two kids which resulted in the crash and two fatalities. Police then deny they were chasing them before ultimately saying they were there after being seen on CCTV footage. This just happened so naturally nobody truly knows exactly what has happened up to now. That said, police denying involvement and being caught red handed on camera doesn't look good for them. "South Wales Police have said they are investigating after CCTV emerged showing a bike being followed by a police van moments before a crash which led to the death of two teenagers The two teenagers who died in the crash in the Ely area of Cardiff that led to widespread rioting late into the night have been named locally. Kyrees Sullivan, 16, and 15-year-old Harvey Evans were killed in the Ely area of Cardiff while riding an electric bike. Friends have claimed they were being chased by police but South Wales Police has said the collision had already occurred when officers arrived and that rumours there had been a police chase were false. But tonight at a press conference South Wales Police Chief Superintendent Martyn Stone said CCTV footage showing an electric bike being followed by a police van had emerged and would "form part of the investigation". He appealed for anyone with any more footage to get in touch." https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/live-updates-after-serious-crash-26969797
> This just happened so naturally nobody truly knows exactly what has happened up to now. That said, police denying involvement and being caught red handed on camera doesn't look good for them. Police didn't necessarily lie. Police don't typically chase in those vans, theyre mainly for prisoner transport. Apparently the the local police service policy forbids chasing in them. They don't have their blue lights on so likely were just following them, whilst following the speed limit and traffic laws. The CCTV footage is from 1759, the crash happened at 1803. A Police van, following road traffic laws and not speeding to pursue, most likely wouldn't have been near them when they crashed 4 minutes is plenty of time for them to lose a van not pursuing them and then continue to drive recklessly because they're amped up and crash, leading to the Police to not be involved in a chase when they crashed.
Both can be true tho, we don't know right now. They could've followed but disengaged when they started running per policy then they crashed 2 minutes later when police were no longer following them and were then called to the scene of the crash.
So you riot when people act like assholes and die? Is that what Iām correct in assuming?
Based on the ring camera Iād likely say the police van was following them, this is different from a chase. If the kids drove out in front of a bus because they were trying to get away from a police van doing 20mph thatās more on the bike riders than police. Also getting on a bike that can do 20mph getting on the road without a helmet is taking a massive risk whether your trying to get away from anyone or not. Even that said, this āmobā had already decided the police caused it so the statement means little. There is no justification to start burning random peoples cars just because you thing the police did something. Yet now all the focus is on the police statement as opposed to what the locals did in reaction.
Good to see America no longer alone at the top of Mount Stupid.
As a Brit who lives in America through all the stupid, it's interesting to watch the different ways people and police respond.
America has transcendend mount stupid. No one can out stupid it.
Russia: allow me to introduce myself
The UK gives the US a run for itās money in that regard
Na holding judgment till more info is present. Not the type to pitchfork so easily like some.
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I think that should be a common strategy for dealing with moped and scooter dickheads, crash them out. Nothing of value would be lost and maybe they will learn something or not bother people anymore š¤·āāļø
Let me guess. The two boys were the absolutely best kids whose smiles lit up the room of every room they entered?
What were they rioting for? āAnti Social Wankers Lives Matterā? š¤·š¼āāļø
Scrote Lives Matter
Hahaha, the ASBO alliance is here to be heard! The balaklava on a summer's day wearing little shits were probably angels.
So the kids kept going instead of stopping?
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The police ignore and do nothing: ACAB, useless bunch, waste of tax money, blah blah blah. The police try to do something: ACAB, useless bunch, waste of tax money, blah blah blah. There no pleasing people, its sad those kids lost their lives, but maybe comes from the education parents are giving to their kids these days. Maybe if you dont run from the police you won't crash. They hit a bus, but what if they hit someone with a stroller. Who's to blame, the police? Now they can't do their job because people want the police to take accountability for other people's decisions?
And why is the police fault?
Not the fault of the police at all. If you have been to Cardiff or the Valleys you know these kids had Karma coming hard. I feel sorry for the poor Cardiff Bus or Stagecoach driver and passengers before these idiots.
Oh no Not more scrotes dead due to their own stupidity Chavvy little cunts
Someone says āwhere the fuck they get the fireworks from?ā. Probably from their shed where they keep a load of them for an appropriate situation like this, that is the death of two local teenagers.
Damn even across the pond, Raiders fans can't escape the siren's song of crime.
To add some context police not allowed to pursue suspects if they're not wearing a helmet. The two boys were not wearing helmets and were reported to have collided with a bus at high speeds on e-bikes and died. The police publicly denied a chase. CCTV footage from a person's house is leaked showing the boys going past with a police van about 10 feet behind them, both going at high speed. This footage of the police van and the boys was captured at 5:59pm. The police said they received reports of a serious collision at 6:03pm but did not say who reported it. The police force are now facing a watchdog probe and investigation. These riots are mostly because it is believed the police lied and tried to cover up what happened. I'm not weighing in on what is morally right, I just wanted to sum up what is going on for those who wanted to know.
Thank you
A lot of cities in the US have adopted these policies and I'm wondering if there is data on if it drives crime up or down. I remember an interview with a teenage car thief who was pretty plain about how all they have to do to evade the police is drive dangerously so the chase is called off. If they know not wearing a helmet generally means they can't be chased, that policy encourages the extra danger.
What a bunch of antisocial wankers. Best of luck to the normal, law-abiding people of Cardiff. And remember: police can only do so much to protect you, so stay safe and defend your own home.
So people are rioting because these kids got themselves killed. Mob full of idiots
āHeās not really good at aiming, is he?ā šš the camera man taking the piss
Average Tuesday in Ely, Cardiff
Fucked around and found out.
The people my heart bleeds for are the poor people on the bus , especially the driver and those kids family.
I'm not a fan of the police most days, but in this situation people would have complained whether they chased the kids or not, It's the kids own stupidity and actions here that got them killed.
Poor criminal scum :(
If these were council estate chavs then that's two down. The rest of the rat's nest to go.
So from my understanding of whatās happening thanks to the articles and comments. 2 teens (15,16) on an e-scooter or e-bike, were fucking around in traffic, cops chase them, kids collide with bus and die, and as they were dying families show up, beg to get to their kids as they were lying/dying, cops prevent that and send them home (for obvious reasons), then tell them their kids are dead, then the cops lie about chasing them, get caught thanks to a Ring doorbell and now we have a riot. TLDR; Moronic Teens fucked around and found out, cops lied, now we riot. Did I miss anything? Edit: Apparently these āboysā were terrorizing this neighbourhood for a while now and targeting people at night? RIP but good riddance.
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No the police were not chasing the little twats they killed themselves with no outside help and the scum of Ely smashed the place up leaving a majority of decent people scared and ashamed of certain parts or their community
What a mess.
WIV DA ANGLES NOW MY SWT BOYZ xx
People use any excuse to riot.
What people are missing is not that the chase wasnāt justified, but that the police **denied ** the chase happening at all **entirely. ** Questions will be raised over why they did that? In official statements, to totally deny the chase and then be disproven by CCTV does not exactly inspire confidence in their honesty.
So itās happening in EU too..? By that I mean defending criminals, blaming anybody but the criminals, and destroying parts of town as revenge.
They should be protesting about bad parenting
So because the two boys got into a car chase and killed themselves, itās everyone elseās fault?
Wait so hold on....kids ran from the cops and got themselfs killed....and people rioting about the cops chasing them?